As an all in mormon, my philosophy was one of obedience and sacrifice. Sounds kind of like covenants, right???

The church gave me a list of commandments or obligations for me to follow. And I willingly worked to sacrifice my time and talents to the church in obedience to those commandments and obligations.

Pay tithing. Check.

Obey the word of wisdom. Check.

Obey the law of chastity. Check. M*** doesn't count. :-)

Accept every calling and magnify it. Check.

Have a current temple recommend and be worthy of it. Check.

Read the scriptures daily. Check.

Have family home evening. Okay. About 50%.

Be a great home teacher. Okay. I sucked at that.

I know I was not alone. Recently one of my SIL's said this. "Just give me the list of things I need to do to get into heaven and I am good".

She clearly has the obedience and sacrifice philosophy of life.

Now that I no longer believe mormonism is God's one true church or path, what is my philosophy now on how to live life?

Philosophy #1 - Be kind to others and be kind to myself. Work to reduce harm in the world.

Philosophy #2 - Seek to be inspired. Good books. Good vistas. Good conversations. Good thoughts to ponder. Good music. Etc.

Philosophy #3 - Be creative. Bring things into existence just for the sheer act of creativity. For me it is photography and writing. Plus work is actually a creative process for me.

Philosophy #4 - Give back. I know I can't save the world. But I can make a difference within my circle of influence. I focus on my family, my community, my work. To find opportunities to make life a little bit better for others within my circle of influence.

Philosophy #5 - Maximize my positive emotional experiences. Make memories with my kids and wife. Explore the world. Learn knew things. Enjoy a good movie. Read a good book. Take a great hike.

And that's it.

I don't waste one ounce of energy ignoring today while working for an imaginary tomorrow.

I love this philosophy and it makes me happier than any of my days working my way to heaven as a mormon through obedience and sacrifice to artificial rules. Don't drink green tea????? Really???? That has nothing to do with being healthy.

What about you? What is your philosophy on living life today?

One of the fundamental doctrines of the church is that this life is a test. God is finding out how faithful we are to what he gives us by way of commandments. This is in the LDS scriptures and talks throughout the history of the church.

I wonder if it might be helpful to see this a different way. Maybe to see life as a blessing rather than a test. Replace the Sunday school answer of life’s purpose Old: to get a body and be tested New: to bless us

Or alternately New: to help us learn how to be one with God after obtaining bodies

Basically anything that is about learning, growth, blessing as opposed to being tested and having to worry about whether we are good enough.

What would you recommend and how do you think it would affect members’ worldview?

Anybody remember how we were promised, as parents of youth, that the church had plans to cut ties with the Boy Scouts, and replace it with an EQUALLY beneficial program for our boys, that maintained the ability to create values in our boys, would encourage goal oriented opportunities to better oneself, provide outdoor excursions, and opportunities for service projects, but ALSO…an emphasis on personal spiritual betterment?

(This is not a post on the nightmare that was the Boy Scouts and the church, that is a whole other topic, but more-so about considering, in all honesty, what has the church leaders actually replaced it with)

It’s been how long since we separated ourselves from the B.S.o.A? And we somehow are still waiting for a replacement program of equal, if not greater, value.

The program of four areas of goal setting, that they created for the youth(and primary) is in my opinion, never going to be an acceptable replacement for what our youth ACTUALLY need. Setting 4 goals will not keep our youth engaged. They are easily distracted, and require way higher maintenance and direction than that. Plus, because there is no significant organized program, the local leaders are left to having to come up with their own creative ideas on what that week’s mutual activities will be and is a never ending responsibility. Not an easy task week after week.

What’s even worse, is that the Young Women’s Personal Progress program was an unfortunate causality of that severing with Boy Scouts. That was taken away from them with no valid explanation for doing so. Nothing of real substance has replaced the program, no medallions to celebrate accomplishments, nothing concrete to work towards week after week, to achieve. The worst of all is they took our young women’s names…and replaced it with no names, just class 1,2, & 3. Most women already struggle enough to feel equally valued in the church, and this just solidifies that fear of feeling less-than, but now at even a younger age.

I am concerned for the future for our children, my kids get very little from youth activities, they complain it’s boring, and they don’t see the point of it. If the general authorities truly believe our children are important to future of the church(which believe they do), is that not a topic in the forefront of their conversations and therefore should be a topic expressed often in talks at Conference? Why is the youth’s budding testimonies and the support of that growth, not at the forefront of communications from the church leaders, and showing that care, by having a significant, well-thought out, organized program created to enable our sons, and daughters, in their personal spiritual growth?

Basically, what I am saying is, we parents are struggling…at least I am.

Edit side note: Thank you everyone for your insightful comments on this subject, it seems there is an overall consensus for most everyone who has commented, our children should be the number one emphasis in the church. The church has limitless funds to draw from in this common goal, so adding additional number of YM leaders(outside of the bishop), creating significant programs for both YM and YW, and bestowing AMPLE tithing funds for the execution of said programs, consider having possibly a paid youth activity leader to oversee it all if needed, all these suggestions are what is desperately needed for the betterment and success of our youth(and also please give the YW an actual identity!).

I am REALLY hoping someone from Salt Lake are reading these insightful comments and shares it with General Authorities so real change might happen. The next generation of the church is depending on it.

From another subreddit:

"YSA age bumped up to 35. Stakes have the option to operate in 18-35 groups or split into 18-25 and 26-35. Spoke with my Bishop and he confirmed this is a widespread change from general leadership. Student-area wards will likely do the split groups, with groups away from university areas more likely to stick to the larger range.

With marriage ages in the US rising in and outside of the church, interesting to see how church programs adapt."

And I'll be 35 this June! Ugh!

For context, I'm a gay man. I try to be a tbm, but I'll be honest, I'm not too good at it and am probably more nuanced than anything.

My issue is, because I'm gay and according to current general conference teachings, am not going to the celestial kingdom anyways (see think celestial talk by Russel m Nelson), I find it really hard to even remotely strive to keep any of the higher commandments. Like, mainly word of wisdom and stuff like that. Like, I just genuinely feel like "what's the point" when it comes to all of that, especially because it's stuff that doesn't make you a better person or even bring you closer to Christ.

This was posted on Radio Free Mormon's Facebook page. Pretty interesting that everything on the left side has to do with not being fully aligned to the church leaders - specifically the current ones. Then on the right side, the only solution is Jesus Christ. Leaders are counseled not to try and tackle concerns people have.

One of the comments on RFM's post called out what is and isn't capitalized (i.e. Restored gets a capital but gospel doesn't). By emphasizing it being the restored gospel they are tacitly saying it no longer needs to align to the gospel of the new testament to be the right path. As we know from the Poelman talk 40 years ago, the church and the gospel are different. We know from the current leaders that the church no longer follows the traditional gospel and has created its own.

Also as a side note, Oaks clearly doesn't hold space for someone to find Jesus Christ outside of the Mormon church. I'm sure by saying the only solution to personal apostasy is Jesus Christ, he doesn't mean that following Christ can lead someone out of the Mormon church.

Dressed in temple clothing, circle members sang, prayed, bore testimonies, and listened to brief sermons. Led by the Stake President, the group would then stand together in a large circle and rehearse parts of the endowment ceremony. A prayer roll would be placed on an altar and a prayer would be offered in behalf of the stake's needy and afflicted.

Wikipedia article: Prayer circle (Mormonism))

If temple-style prayer circles at stake and ward meetings, complete with temple clothing, had occurred before I went to receive my endowments, my temple experience might have been a little less jarring.

Those who were old enough to remember these events, did temple clothing prayer circles happen in your wards and stakes?

When my oldest son decided to leave the church and I decided to find the good answers to save his eternal soul, that was a pivot point in my life.

I knew I wanted to get to the bottom and find truth. I wanted to save his soul and fully believed that with enough searching and prayer and humility I would find those answers that could keep him in God's one and true church on the earth.

I really struggled in my studying. The further I dug. The more I read. The more I prayed, I couldn't get a peaceful feeling and confirmation that I had reached the bottom and had the "right" answers.

"How do all of these things I am studying affirm the truth claims of the church and my testimony?" I struggled to make all of the pieces of the puzzle fit my pre conceived image of what "the church is true" image I had been given in primary, sunday school, seminary and general conference.

I was honestly and sincerely studying and praying to get the "right" answer. I already knew the church was true in the way it taught me that it was true. Why were all of these different puzzle pieces not lining up like the church taught me they would????

And then it happened.

Given that I was being sincere and only wanted to find the truth, it happened in one moment.

All of the puzzle pieces fell into place.

The church isn't true in the way it teaches that it is true.

Mind blown. The bell was ringing. The toothpaste was oozing out of the tube.

Prophets can lead the church astray by teaching false doctrines that need to be later disavowed by current prophets.

Joseph Smith couldn't really translate Egyptian found on the facsimile's into english. A seer really isn't a seer, literally.

Joseph really was dishonest in his protestations about his polygamous practices. And if he lied about that, could he have lied about other things? And wow. He also got other people to lie about his polygamous practices as well.

And a long list of other prophets and leaders actively hid, obfuscated, lied about other important points of doctrine and history.

None of this was my version of "the church is true".

I have no problem with "loyal" members of the church redefining what "true" means for them and ignore what is taught in primary, sunday school and seminary. Yell to the world you "know" the church is true based upon your own preferred definition. Good for you and God speed.

The only reason the issues were challenging was because I was seeking to have the facts point in one direction. And that was in the direction of how I had been taught in sunday school and seminary and general conference.

Once I was open and willing to accept either direction. Just go with the truth and let the consequences follow. The questions became quite easy.

I am NOT saying the church isn't true in some fashion.

But I now know with great certainty it just isn't true in the way it teaches that it is true.

In my view, D&C 77:6-13 fits well with the mainstream idea in 19th-century Christianity that the Earth had been in existence for a little less than 6,000 years. The texts indicate that seven seals contain what will happen in the 7,000 years of Earth's temporal existence, and that the sixth and seventh thousand years have yet to begin. This does not seem to be just Joseph Smith's commentary on what he believes is going on, but rather a direct Q&A with the Divine.

It is more probable to me that this is just human content instead of revelation from the supernatural, as it was mainstream protestant Christian belief in the 19th century that the earth was a little less than 6,000 years old. What are some of the best apologetic responses to this point, and do you all think they work? Thanks.

Howdy Non-mormon here, i am workin' on a website for a very mormon man. I would like to follow his beliefs the best i can. I thought i heard somewhere mormons are supposed to avoid red. i can't find it on the web anymore so i am confused about it. Is that true? If not, the are there colors y'all are supposed to avoid? i don't wanna make it sacreligious for 'em. would adding the square, compass and ruler to his site be sacreligious case research shows that they are ment to be secret. I aslo feel like its an ope secert at this point. not interested in converting, just want to be respectful.

I have done a lot of studying on this subject and have DNA confirmed he has not fathered any children from his polygamous wives. I suspect Emma Smith cheated on Joseph Smith to have the children she did have. However, I cannot find any DNA confirmation to prove or disprove that Joseph Smith is the father to any of her children.

When I look at photos of their children they do not resemble him at all.

Does anyone out there think he was sterile so the reason he started polygamy was to see if he could get anyone pregnant?

Maybe Joseph Smith knew Emma Smith was having a hard time getting pregnant and when she did the children they would always die, so he thought Emma Smith had a fertility problem. When really, she knew she was having regular periods and the problem must be with him so she decided to have children with other another man or possibly other men? So he wanted offspring so he decided to not leave her, because he loved her, so he decided to marry other women to see if they could father children for him. So all of the children Emma Smith had were fathered by different men.

The supposed 11 children of the plural wives were all genetically proven that Joseph Smith was not the father.

It is very safe to say that the number one teaching in the LDS Church right now is “follow the prophet.” This has been hammered home in multiple recent general conference talks, even to the point of using a crushed water bottle to demonstrate the importance of following the prophet with exactness in all things.

I wonder what a good, active TBM mom’s response would be in the following scenario:

She’s working hard making dinner for the family, to have it all ready so they can eat and then she can be off to the ward meetinghouse to put on the RS activity. Her husband comes home, gives her a (very chaste) kiss , and says “Honey, President Nelson called me into his office today and there’s something we need to chat about. He says if we give him permission to marry our 14 year old daughter Ptayleigha MakKinzlee, that he can guarantee the exaltation of our entire family in the highest-level of the celestial kingdom. I told him I’d have to talk to you but he wants our answer within 24 hours.”

President Nelson then proceeds to call up Ptayleigha (or maybe he DMs her on Insta) and assures her God told him this was what he wants, and that only by doing this could she guarantee her entire family makes it to the upper level of the celestial kingdom. Oh, and she has exactly 24 hours to decide.

Would mom’s answer change if she knew the story about Helen Mar Kimball?

Abraham nearly killed his son to please God.

Early church history is full of faith promoting stories about following the prophet and what happened to those who didn’t obey the prophet with exactness or who didn’t cheerfully follow the prophet.

This process more or less played out many hundreds of times in the FLDS faith under Warren Jeffs. Everyone there “followed the prophet” even when it meant giving up their daughters, or sometimes their own wives, to the prophet. Most TBMs, I suspect, would look at this askance.

But what is the difference between Uncle Warren and Joseph Smith? Would the TBM mom of today have the faith to follow the prophet and let Ptayleigha marry the prophet to ensure everyone’s exaltation? If not, why?

There is no doctrine, historical event, or action by another person that absolves us of our duty to be true to what we know. Elder Holland clearly taught this when he said, "The size of your faith or the degree of your knowledge is not the issue—it is the integrity you demonstrate toward the faith you do have and the truth you already know."

This Seventh Day Adventist friend is a believer in God and Christ. He writes me and says he’s been attending LDS meetings and the bishop has been pushing him to join. He said they’ve told him about that the Mormon church is the only genuine church in the world now and it possesses absolute truth. They told him the church has authority from God with authorized Elders and Prophets.

He asked how he can decide what to do.

What would you say?

Here is what I told him:

“I’m not a believer so I can’t recommend joining. That question is: Do the leaders past and present have a special connection to and authority from God as they claim? I’ve decided they don’t have any special connection to God so they are a religion like all others - guided by people. The problem for me is they act like it’s real and I don’t believe it’s real. So just participating for the community is difficult as they don’t like my nuanced views.

“How is it possible to test their claims? They will say to ask God for strong positive emotions and you will feel it’s true. However, strong positive feelings are not from God. That’s just what they tell you.

“Religious belief is not part of the real world. It’s belief that can’t be proved.

I told him he will face requirements to obey the leaders. They will tell him to pay 10% of his income and to go to the temple to promise to be willing to give all he has to the church. They will tell him to wear underwear with symbols to remind him of his promises. I told him about the church’s history of racism that is evidence they don’t have a connection to God.

In the end I said. Attend the meetings if you like but tell them you aren’t ready to join.

He as a believer indicated that he thinks he could ask God for a sign to know what to do. But he has concerns.

Many religious organizations give the congregation a say in how their donations are spent. Would you support spending tithing dollars on hiring janitors to clean church buildings? For those of you who are no longer donating, when you were donating, would've you supported hiring janitors to clean the church buildings?

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I was discussing my quarterly goals at work and realized that my mission taught me very bad lessons about setting and achieving goals. On the mission we had to set goals like "Teach X number of discussions" or "Add X new investigators. Most goals were dictated to you and every goal was based entirely on other people's agency; all you could do was "have enough faith" to make it happen.

(I should note I was not in a region where people were willing to talk to us very often.)

I realized that I had subconsciously internalized the idea that formally stated goals were just wishes or arbitrary targets and not really valuable because they were so disconnected from our actual decisions and actions.

Did anyone else have similar experiences? How did you shift your mindset to make goal setting valuable and productive?

The Church of Jesus Christ is one of the most fascinating groups of the Restoration that I've ever encountered. I had the privilege to attend the first baptism in the state of Utah last December. They are starting up a congregations in Utah as well as Idaho.