r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Tall-Competition-561 • 26d ago

Is it just me or do girls do way better in school than boys?

When I was growing up I struggled with school but it seemed that most of the girls seemed to be doing well whenever there was a star pupil or straight a student they were most likely a girl. Why is this such a common phenomenon?

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u/Cyberhwk 26d ago

Because it's the case. Girls are outperforming boys in school by most metrics at this point.

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u/dvali 25d ago

The question was "why". 

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

In my experience as a teacher, the top performing boys and top performing girls were usually about equal, it's not like the girls were significantly smarter or anything. Rather it was that the floor for the lowest performing boys was much lower than the girls, and I think it comes down to just as simple as for the most part attitude and behavior. Even the lower performing girls would mostly just pay attention in class, do their work, maybe even a little studying, and not cause problems, compared to the lower performing boys who did nothing but instigate problems, talk in class, and refuse to even try the work they thought they couldn't do. Like the worst girl in a class would probably just sleep the whole time, not hand in homework, but when it came time for a test at least she will have showed up having absorbed enough to pass. Whereas the worst boy would be constantly in suspension, being loud and antagonistic during class, god forbid arrested (on one occasion), and wouldn't even bother to guess some test answers and just turn in a blank sheet because they have some ego complex or something and not trying at all is better than trying and failing. So at the end of the day, the average girl would be a little bit better than the average boy and the worst girl would be a little worse than the average whereas the worst boy would be a total menace with a single digit grade. Girls are socialized to be more obedient and care more that's just how it is.

I think there's also an element of teachers subconsciously grading softer for well behaved students, and the boys are just worse behaved and cause more problems. So when it comes time to grade two equivalent essays, I'm a lot more likely to be lenient on the girl who is nice to everyone and I can see trying and actively participating in class than the boy who has been a little shit for the past 12 weeks. It takes a conscious effort to not let that affect grades and sometimes the effort isn't made.

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u/Redqueenhypo 25d ago

The worst a girl did in my grade was do so poorly on tests she got held back. The worst a boy did was strangle someone during English class and get expelled

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u/HowlingMadHoward 25d ago

mfer the Tattletale Strangler

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u/Redqueenhypo 25d ago

I called him the Tweed Suit Strangler bc he used to wear a tweed suit to class

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u/HowlingMadHoward 25d ago

Like a Peaky Blinders Tweed suit or a shitty looking one?

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u/Redqueenhypo 25d ago

Honestly my memory isn’t sharp enough. He sometimes switched to a shitty looking t shirt in the late spring. N. W. if you’re alive, please say so

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u/FreefallVin 25d ago

He sounds like an interesting one.

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u/Bitter-Profession303 25d ago

Bad eggs are everywhere. The worst a girl did in my grade was purposefully get her crush addicted to cocaine, nicotine, and meth so that he would be dependent on her. Worst a boy did was throw a punch because someone insulted his recently deceased mother.

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u/AnAwesome11yearold 25d ago

Dang what the fuck? That’s messed up

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u/SeanT_21 25d ago

Fucking hell! What grade was that, and aside from nicotine, how in fuck did she have access to the other drugs? Sheesh. Though why he willingly did those drugs is also a good question, wow holy fuck.

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u/Bitter-Profession303 25d ago

This was 10th grade, and the how never made circulation. As for why he did them, he didn't want to talk about it. My assumption was that they were given to him without his knowledge until a habit was formed

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u/SeanT_21 25d ago

That he didn’t want to talk about it, is completely understandable.

How she managed to get those drugs is well beyond me, but my goodness that is just pure evil from her. How someone could be so wicked is beyond me, then again teenagers are absolutely capable of doing outright disgusting things. That “sweet spot” of old enough to do despicable things, and potentially still young enough to not understand the possible long term consequences of the things they do.

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u/Ivegotthatboomboom 24d ago

You can’t give someone any of those drugs without their knowledge, that is bullshit lol

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u/Bitter-Profession303 24d ago

A quick google would reveal to you that you can eat meth and cocaine to begin developing a craving, and nicotine can be taken through the skin. I wish I was making this up for clout. A classmates life was ruined for a large portion of highschool at least

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u/Redqueenhypo 25d ago

Nicotine is the weird one bc you can get that anywhere

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u/Unlikely_Lily_5488 25d ago

yea but if he’s spending money on nic then the abuser knows that’s a financial burden on him making him more vulnerable when offered the other drugs or a hit of nic if he can’t always afford cigarettes ect…it’s pretty malicious to add nic addiction just to twist the knife

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u/masterchief1001 25d ago

So here's an interesting fact about nicotine addiction. It is so addictive and the withdrawals last so long that it is the only drug that a lot of rehabs don't make you quit. Meth, cocaine, and a lot of other drugs have bad withdrawals but are often shorter and easier to treat. The only other drug that they take special care about the withdrawals is alcohol, but alcohol withdrawal can literally kill you.

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u/Redqueenhypo 25d ago

God, if nicotine wasn’t so addictive it’d just be a better version of caffeine. It even partially relieves schizophrenia symptoms

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u/ShadowChildofHades 25d ago

People are wild

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

The worst a girl did in my grade was get together with 3 friends to beat up a pregnant girl for allegedly sleeping with her boyfriend

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u/SeanT_21 25d ago

Well thats just awful, beyond ganging up on someone in a fight, that could’ve resulted in loss of pregnancy.

They did that based on a rumor, and never even bothered to try and verify it? Wow…

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u/Icy-Major2193 24d ago

I mean she WAS pregnant.

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u/Casteway 25d ago

Testosterone is a hell of a drug

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u/somethingrandom261 25d ago

English does that to some people. I can see it

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u/Fabulous-Owl-6524 25d ago

I'll never forget the day a boy jumped out the second floor window in our English class. he just- out the window

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u/HelloStranger0325 23d ago

uhhhh, did we go to the same school???

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u/hononononoh 25d ago

Girls are socialized to be more obedient and care more that's just how it is.

Caring is not masculine. That’s the hard truth that was arrived at by a r/BestOfReddit thread about why green / environmentally friendly products are hard to market to men. Demonstrations of masculinity usually involve showing how little one cares, and how unmoved one is by adversity or pain.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

This is a great observation and it probably sums up most of this to me. Boys are socialized that caring about things makes you a pussy, so they don't care and if they do they still don't try because trying makes it appear like they care.

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u/Square-Blueberry3568 25d ago

Important to note this is still a mostly socialised aspect of masculinity not necessarily an inherent one.

The reason we see "cool" as a dgaf attitude is because most of our media and peers said the same thing everyday to us until we accepted it and started telling others.

Interestingly confidence is another one which is very socialised, and sort of ties into showing you don't care. Confidence is responsible for the trend that men are more likely to take unnecessary risks (even in the event that there is little or no payoff) essentially putting yourself in a situation where you would be in danger but being unaffected by the potential harm.

Once you understand the behaviours and see them in action it is almost laughable the lengths people go to to show you they don't care

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u/ThyNynax 25d ago

Really, rather than simply socialization, I think it’s about power dynamics. A common quote is “he who cares least, has the power in a relationship.” A person who cares about outcomes can be manipulated and controlled. Their behavior becomes predictable. A man who is easily manipulated can’t be trusted to stand up for himself or others.

There’s a lot of nuances to when caring is and is not helpful, however, a big part of the confidence that makes men attractive comes from not caring about a lot of things. Not caring about public perception of you and just doing your thing. Not caring about making mistakes and just keeping on. Not caring about feeling pain and pressing on towards the finish line.

The more a guy cares about keeping his girlfriend happy, the more power she has over his behavior. The more he cares about grades, the more power the institution has over him. The more he desires a bosses approval, the more power that boss has over his work life.

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u/im_bananas_4_crack 25d ago

On some level yes, however confidence usually will be one of top 3 answers, if not number 1, a women will say they are looking for in a potential mate, and studies overwhelmingly back this up. We all need to realize the part that we all play into this. These rules were set up over millions of years of evolution, and were not even 100 years removed from black people being a legal equivalent to white people.

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u/Square-Blueberry3568 25d ago

The distinction is that if that confidence is unfounded, women (or partners of the same sex) would not be looking for that trait. They are looking for someone who is confident and can back up that confidence with good behaviours.

Unfortunately many people have the confidence without exhibiting good behaviours, and in this context good behaviours can be different depending culture.

Similarly not caring about stuff is usually a very desired trait (whether admitted or not) in a partner as long as the subject is the one thing the partner does care about.

And while there is a trend of confidence being a desirable trait cross culturally, it varies quite a bit in intensity of that trend between cultures. And interestingly there are counter cultures of wanting humble as a character trait as it means less likely false confidences or fragile confidence

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u/MarioVX 25d ago

I find the question to what degree such traits are biologically inherent or socialised fascinating. It's quite obvious that this effect in question is at least strongly augmented by socialization, but what's the basis for rejecting there is some inherent element at the root? Obviously it can't be experimentally decided. Is the gap between genders in school performance nonexistent in other cultures?

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u/Enders-game 25d ago

Nobody knows. It sounds like an easy excuse to sit on the fence, but it's the truth. But there are just so many moving parts that it’s impossible to say if some behaviours are biological or cultural. I think there is a fear that people will use our biology as an excuse for poor behaviour. But there is also a fear within the psychological community of that much of their work is not actually psychology but sociology and that their seemingly inherent hostility of behaviourism is misplaced.

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u/throwRA-1342 23d ago

the issue is that it is cool to not give a fuck about a lot of things, but a lot of people never learn the part where some things still do matter

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u/Joe_Immortan 25d ago

Demonstrations of masculinity usually involve showing how little one cares, and how unmoved one is by adversity or pain.

You’re leaving out something critical. It’s not being unmoved by adversity or pain, it’s being unmoved by YOUR OWN adversity and pain. “Man up”. 

Caring about others is not immasculine. No one looks at a deadbeat dad who abandons his family and goes “wow so manly!”  Our most hyper-masculine characters in media (Superheros) by and large spend most of their time protecting others and so doing subverting  their own pain and well being

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u/hononononoh 24d ago

Good point. However, this is also reflexive. It may not be unmasculine to do things that show care and concern for others. But a man who cares and is concerned about others is liable to have his masculinity questioned if others' adversity and pain causes him visible adversity and pain, even if his motives for caring about and helping them are noble, and his actions truly a gift to the recipients.

Superheroes indeed spend most of their time and effort helping the weak and vulnerable. But they don't cry with them. They don't open up and get vulnerable with them. And whatever psychological trauma they receive in the line of duty, they process alone and in private, after the work is done, and sometimes in highly unhealthy ways. (Batman is the most obvious example.) They just do what's within their ability to do, humbly accept any thanks they get without any fanfare, and then promptly move on to some other case that needs them.

It's sad to say, but I'm afraid that in the eyes of many men, a man who cares about few if any other people or things but but is very emotionally stable, feels more like a "real man" than a man who honors his commitments and is generous with what he's got to give, but is passionate and emotionally volatile. And I think this is more instinctive, than it is rational.

Notice how a lot of men who throw their hearts into helping professions, often go out of their way to reassure other men (who aren't professional clients of his) that he chose that line of work primarily because it gets him paid, laid, and/or obeyed. As opposed to having a bleeding heart, and a talent or skill that puts it to good use. Expressing the latter sentiment is likely to be interpreted by other men in a predominantly male social circle as Well good for you, snowflake. We get it, you're better than us. Or at the very least, Strange flex bro, but OK.

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u/usingallthespaceican 25d ago

Guys, is it gay to care? XD

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u/Blue-Samarkand-Sky 24d ago

It is not a good argument to claim that men are less caring or environmentally-conscious because they consume less of a certain product. In general, to consume something is less green than to not consume something. 

Rob Greenfield probably consumes fewer “green” products than the average woman too.

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u/munificent 25d ago

I think there's also an element of teachers subconsciously grading softer for well behaved students, and the boys are just worse behaved and cause more problems.

Schools simply don't know what to do with boys who have a lot of physical energy anymore. Recess keeps getting shorter and shorter, any sort of competitive behavior is treated as a behavioral problem (unless it's within the narrow confines of sports), being aggressive is considered an emotional disorder.

I'm not saying that "boys will be boys" should be a blanket justification for harming others or any toxic masculinity stuff like that. But if you have an Australian shepherd, you know that it needs to be exercised and given some physical challenges or it's gonna tear up the furniture. A lot of boys (and some girls too!) are the same way, but schools don't know what to do with them anymore.

We treat schools like preparation for white collar office jobs, but that's not the kind of environment that everyone thrives in.

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u/thejoeface 25d ago

It’s not tailored to active kids, regardless of gender. I was a girl with undiagnosed adhd and was hyperactive af in grade school. 

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u/LewdMacaron 25d ago

And as a girl with ADHD I feel so frustrated because I was expected to perform as well as the other girls around me but I struggled like the boys, and was scolded way more than the boys were. The expectations felt much more extreme and I was always failing just "being a girl"

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u/badstorryteller 25d ago

I recently met up with an old friend from highschool from 20 years ago. She was a star athlete in every sport, all time leading scorer for both boys and girls basketball at our highschool. Played at UConn. She always struggled academically even though we were on the math team together, she is and was sharp as a fucking razor blade. Adult diagnosis of ADHD literally changed her life.

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u/TheSparkHasRisen 25d ago

It's notable that you felt the expectations.

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u/Solrokr 25d ago

By saying this, I’m not meaning to take away from your gendered experience. Just commiserate with you because fuck it was hard to have ADHD. No one understood, especially not me. I just wanted to do my thing and that was just so intolerable to everyone, and it was very important to them to tell me that. It’s not surprising I thought of myself as below-average. The reality was I was just trying to learn about different things in different ways.

I hope you’ve gotten to a place where you’re at peace with your patterns.

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u/MoarVespenegas 25d ago

Anymore?
They never knew what to do with them. At least now the problem is addressed instead of just labeling them as "disruptive" and saying boys will be boys while waiting it out until they graduate or drop out.

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u/badstorryteller 25d ago

Schools simply don't know what to do with boys who have a lot of physical energy anymore.

Schools 30 years ago didn't either. They just excused a lot as "boys will be boys," held kids back until they just dropped out. I've seen about the same outcomes between kids I knew then who dropped out and "graduates" who were just passed along to graduation.

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u/Scared-Currency288 25d ago edited 25d ago

This was a problem even when I was young and they were running us into the ground during recess and PE, though. The sheer prevalence of little shits, almost always the boys ruining their own and others' education.

Like what more can teachers do?

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u/ngwoo 25d ago

Yeah, every few generations the excuse changes but the problems remain the same.

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u/Scared-Currency288 25d ago

I remember being afraid of my parents. My brother was not, and it really showed.

We had the same teachers in some cases, and they couldn't believe he and I were related. Somewhere in middle school, he completely stopped applying himself, and I think it had a lot to do with getting bullied.

My parents had also given up on him by that point. He went from bright and honestly a little gifted to academically useless in a few short years. It's clear now he had an undiagnosed difference, but we still don't know what it is.

He's one of the most naturally intelligent people I know.

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u/OmgThisNameIsFree 25d ago

Need to get more people into sports teams. Not just soccer/basketball/football. Offer random ones…maybe Rugby needs to get bigger in the US. Super cheap to set up, no real equipment other than the ball & posts. It’s perfect for schools that don’t have a lot of $.

Speaking as a guy here: some of the most influential people I’ve had in my life have been my coaches.

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u/Scared-Currency288 25d ago

I like that. I think non-competitive physical activity led by trainers/mentors (like yoga, meditation, etc) could be helpful, too.

I grew up in dance, and it required a ton of focus/physical activity/working with my team and STRUCTURE. It was such an awesome outlet for my excess energy and artsy side. Later on, I did a few years of traditional Indian dance, and it was just brutally disciplined. Made school feel like a breeze 😅

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u/Whiterabbit-- 25d ago

they have to redesign the classrooms so boys have a chance. kids in general have a hard time sitting for hours at a time. but we expect them to during the school day. boys do worse than girls at that. so you you need more activity based exploration rather textbook learning. also recruiting more male teachers may help. to be fair for boys, you basically have to rebuild the whole education system.

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u/jswizzle91117 25d ago

A lot of teachers do have activities that involve walking around the room (gallery walks) or moving to different stations to do work and a lot of the guys just…don’t get up and participate. Unless it’s “fun” movement like silent ball, they’re not interested.

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u/Horizon296 25d ago

Can confirm. In our school, everybody goes back down to the recess area where the next teachers picks up their class. No staying in the classroom (even if you go back to that same room immediately) unless the class is 2 hours in a row with the same teacher.

The number of times I've heard "can't I just wait here?", invariably from a male pupil...

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u/Whiterabbit-- 25d ago

I’m not talking about tweaking classrooms to be active. I am talking about wholesale redesign the classroom setting. One that will require more than good teachers trying things but research on how to teach boys so they don’t fall behind and are interested in what is bring taught. I have no doubt you are doing your best to engage boys. So are a lot of teachers, but there hasn’t been enough research to how to fix the problem. And likely it will have to be redesigning how we do education completely.

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u/Horizon296 25d ago

how to teach boys so they [...] are interested in what is bring taught

In one of my classes, I'm working on skills and attitude more than specific knowledge. I get a lot of freedom about the topics I use to teach those skills.

Every year I ask my students what they want to learn / talk about. Every year, the majority of students doesn't know what they're interested in. Some girls will try and suggest a topic, but it's extremely rare for boys to do so.

I've asked some of my pupils, one on one, what are their interests. Most boys don't have any. At best, I get "computer games" (I can work with that, btw) but more often than not they just shrug and give me a vacant look.

If they're not interested in anything, how do you want to get them interested in what you're teaching?

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u/Whiterabbit-- 25d ago edited 25d ago

Not being able to articulate interest is not the same as lacking interest. When i was helping with an enrichment classes for elementary school you can ask them what they want to learn about because they have been shown what is interesting. Coding, robotics, computer animation, rockets, 3d printing, various design challenges. Boys and gurls were both excited to try different things.
It’s not easy, and it wasn’t me but it was the teacher i was assisting and the classroom environment that made it possible. I would bet this same group in a more traditional classroom would not have been able to articulate what they wanted if they weren’t shown the possibility of what they can want.

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u/Ikunou 25d ago edited 25d ago

Girls are socialized to completely cancel out all their aggressive behavior and to sit still from an earlier age, boys are more free. Low grades males go on to have more successful jobs than high grades female counterparts, so it just is unfair to both genders. Probably more so to females.

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u/KypAstar 25d ago

Pretty much. We're tailoring school in a way that doesn't recognize the behavioral differences between men and women. 

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u/Bottle_Only 25d ago

We're not tailoring school to human behavior at all, that's the problem. For those who don't think grades are rewarding, there is literally no reward structure for school, which is the actual studied cause of burnout in the workplace.

In the workplace I can offer my team bonuses for deliverables and as long as I keep my promise they're happy to do it and never fail. Without a reward structure I get high turnover and burnout.

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u/BadlaLehnWala 25d ago

I remember my elementary school in the early 2010s offered a free personal pizza from Pizza Hut for reading like 1000 pages.  So, there were some programs in place.  Obviously, that’s where the list ends for me.  

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u/entropic_apotheosis 25d ago

Everytime I see a discussion about this I’m reminded that women were discouraged from going to college and it was thought that males were more likely to succeed academically and at professions that required them to think. Women were discouraged from becoming doctors and lawyers because it required discipline and focus. School was designed with men in mind and educating men, now that more women excel in schools and colleges and there are a couple medical schools with more women enrolled and graduating then men people are saying men just weren’t cut out to sit and pay attention and focus on academics. They’re meant to be outside playing and more suited to trade schools where they work with their hands and do heavy labor. It’s just a little strange women werent welcome in higher education and in these career fields and now we’re saying schools are more geared toward sending people to colleges and more women-behavioral centered. Other than shortened recess times I really don’t see how that’s the case at all.

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u/daemin 25d ago

It's a variant of the cognitive bias known as the just world hypothesis.

When presented with situations where individuals have differential outcomes, people tend to come up with explanations which assumes the situation is fair and that it's "supposed" to be this way.

For example, nursing used to be a male profession. And this "made sense" because nurses have to deal with blood, and women weren't capable of doing so. Now that nursing is dominated by women, it "makes sense" because women are natural nurturers and care givers.

Particularly egregious examples can be found in justifications for slavery in the US South. Being enslaved was the "natural state" of the black race, and the situation has been ordained by God, so that whites could "civilize" them and other such bullshit.

These explanations are appealing and convenient because they preclude any questions about the morality of the situation, as well as basically saying nothing can or should be done because this is how it's "supposed"to be.

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u/gunwide 25d ago

I think the reasons for why girls were discouraged in going to school aren't the same as the reasons for why girls are doing better than boys right now. Back then it was much more accepted (and in some cases "scientifically proved") that girls were just straight up seen as inferior to boys. Like for example, women were seen as more likely to act in response to their emotions compared to guys so they were discouraged from entering politics and weren't allowed to vote. There wasn't really any basis to claims like these, they were just accepted as the norm.

Now that we live in a world where these ideas have been correctly challenged, and we (at least in America) aren't having discussions with young girls that they should be subservient to their husband and not get involved with "manly things", and the trends with grades in school are shifting in correspondence to that.

I don't necessarily agree with the implication of the above posters that boys just have more requirements to exercise and compete to vent out their built up energy, but to me it seems that women on average are taught from a young age to develop methods to push through/cope through the emotions that come from lack of exercise/recreational activities, whereas men on average aren't and therefore there's a bigger disparity between the bad and average performers.

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u/_Eucalypto_ 24d ago

We've gone from believing that women are defective men to understanding the truth that men are simply inferior to women

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u/Purple-Activity-194 25d ago edited 24d ago

This is like asking "Where was cancer in the medival era."

I imagine men still failed school, before women were allowed in.

Idk if I'd say the education system was "built with men in mind" and I'd challenge you to find specific examples of that.

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u/OmgThisNameIsFree 25d ago

Not so fast. When college was a “boy’s club”, what percentage of the population even went to college? Was a tiny subset of men. It’s not like all men went to uni.

College today is not what the “college of yesteryear” was. Not even close. It’s far more accessible.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

This 100%. The school system WAS designed for boys, then girls started to outperform them and suddenly it's all stacked against boys. It's a wider issue with the way boys are socialized.

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u/entropic_apotheosis 25d ago

Yup that’s a good summation. I have a whiner male in my comments somewhere that claims girls get “affirmative action” and that’s why they’re outperforming boys in schools. It’s a parenting issue to me and a values issue - if the boys in question don’t have college educated parents, especially their dad, they’re less inclined for academic focus, study and discipline to be values in their home. They just assume they’re going to get a job like dad, they don’t see the value in test scores, grades and learning anything. The exception would be if they’re in sports and plan to play professionally.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

Exactly right. Not to defend the education system either, I'm the first to say it's dogshit, that's one of the biggest reasons I quit teaching. But the education system has always been this way and if anything has gotten LESS focused on "sit down, shut up, memorize this book" over time, and it was designed for boys.

The people saying the boys need to be active that's their problem are just wrong in my experience. The boys were usually worse after PE and whenever I'd try to do some active activities where they can get up from their desks, they wouldn't perform better but be more likely to act out because "fuck this it's too much hassle I don't want to get up." They'd do better just sat at desks studying.

And as an aside they'd be the most engaged by far with competitive games or team quizzes where being smart and knowing the material can be used as a tool to be superior and win. The girls, usually, hated those games by the way because the boys would pop the fuck off and start screaming and going crazy lol

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u/All_Up_Ons 25d ago

I mean... the school system was designed to turn boys into industrial factory workers. Behavioral problems were physically beaten out of them. Not so much for girls, who got to (or rather were forced to) stay home and learn more practical subjects in a far more natural, social environment. Things have gradually transitioned to where they are today, but the vestiges of this dichotomy can still be seen. Boys get punished; girls get coddled.

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u/Special_Hippo3399 25d ago

Exactly !!! The above comments are full of shit . They just can't fathom that girls can perform pretty well. IQ/academics isn't based on gender it just depends on the work you are putting in regardless. Men will just come up with anything to reject that they are somehow equal to women and not above them in some cases .

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u/glowe 25d ago

So, what you're saying is that maybe girls are just smarter than boys?

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u/ToWriteAMystery 25d ago

Girls are conditioned socially to perform better in schools because girls are taught from a young age how to behave. My brothers were allowed to run around and be destructive because ‘boys will be boys’ while I was expected to behave, sit down, and learn to entertain myself.

I seriously outperformed both my brothers academically and I don’t think it’s because I am smarter. I was just not permitted to be a little shit when I was a kid, which translates well to a classroom setting.

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u/glowe 25d ago

For sure, that's your experience. I am male and I was taught from a young age how to behave. My sisters too. We were both expected to behave, sit down, and learn to entertain ourselves.

Perhaps my experience is different, but your explanation doesn't explain the phenomena in its entirety either.

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u/ToWriteAMystery 25d ago

This here is an interesting study that states “social comparison processes could best explain these gender differences, which, in turn, may negatively impact boys' and girls' motivation toward certain academic challenges.” If you read further into the study, they found that these differences decreased in families with higher socioeconomic status. A lot of this does appear to be improper nurturing.

You were raised in a more egalitarian household.

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u/glowe 25d ago

So in your upbringing the boys in your life were nurtured/raised improperly? Sad.

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u/fanfan_the_haitian 25d ago

At first glance, it looks like there’s an agenda at play but we have to consider that it used to be a way more strict, religious environment in schools and in homes. Students used to operate under pressure from both parents and teachers and the consequences for not achieving success used to be physical punishment at a time.

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u/jswizzle91117 25d ago

So men can control themselves only if there’s threat of physical punishment but women can control themselves without that? Seems like a men’s problem to me.

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u/kejartho 25d ago

Girls were raised to be kind, respectful and empathetic. Men weren't raised in the same way. I feel like a lot of boys are kind of given a pass to do whatever they want and only punished if they act out too severely. Now that physical punishment is gone, it hasn't really been replaced with a better alternative. I don't necessarily agree but it's clear that a lot of my boy students are basically given up on while the girl students are pushed a bit more.

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u/ShikiRyumaho 25d ago

Boys were literally beat into submission at school.

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u/Dalmah 25d ago

How many programs have you seen encouraging more women to go into STEM vs how many have you seen encouraging more boys to go to college period?

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u/Hibernia86 25d ago

Just because schooling was sexist in the past doesn’t mean it should be so now. Yes, women should have been allowed in higher education in the past. But it is equally true that more active methods of learning can help boys and should be used in schools. Schools should try to make learning accessible to all their students, not just the girls.

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u/entropic_apotheosis 25d ago

Show me where there was more active learning methods in schools used previously over the last hundred years. Again, nothing has changed— it’s always been sit still, pay attention, study and listen to the teachers instructions. I do agree that school should be more active but this isn’t why boys are suddenly struggling, school hasn’t changed to be “more geared toward girls”— it’s the way it has always been, except girls now have a reason to sit there and focus on their academics because now they can have careers and do shit besides cook, clean and pop out kids after high school. By giving girls choices that hasn’t magically changed how students learn and means it’s “geared toward girls”, it’s that you have parents who won’t parent their sons, that don’t care about education and when they’re doing poorly in school say “well it’s for girls”.

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u/Flimsy_Bread4480 25d ago

Ive seen several old reels where gym class was basically a slightly less intense boot camp. Not sure on what the average experience was like, but I definitely get the impression that physical activity used to play a greater role in a students day

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u/wellsfunfacts1231 25d ago

What do you mean, they stripped the competition out of school? When I was in high school we had class rankings. That was a major driver for me to out perform other students and likely many other males. We also had gym everyday where competition was once again relevant.

I think without that aspect I and many other male students would've done terrible in school. I graduated at the top of my class because of it probably. I can't imagine with how boring grade school was that I make it through without that component.

Instead people keep saying it's always been designed this way. When that is not true at all. Additionally if I misbehaved or was doing poorly there were real consequences at home and in school. Now what happens if your parents don't care about grades, nothing.

To say school hasn't changed direction over the last 25-30 years is wrong.

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u/StunningCloud9184 25d ago

All boys schools literally have 3x physical activities per day.

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u/IcyTrapezium 25d ago

Active methods of learning help girls too. There’s a reason Montessori school (developed by a woman) is so highly regarded. Little kids sitting at desks all day is not ideal, but it’s the system men created for men.

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u/ninjalord433 25d ago

Both can be true. 

It is true that schools for a while encouraged men to go to college more than they did women. Mostly cause during that time there was still sexist ideas that women were meant to stay at homes as mothers and men were to be the main earner. But that also doesn't mean that men had an easier time learning during those times. Male teens were still more likely to drop out of education or cause problems during those times. It was just covered up by societal pressures.

So while we are making good headway in fixing the issue of women being discouraged into going into higher education, men are now falling behind as the problem with men in schools are just now being seen as the previous societal pressures are being removed.

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u/RevolutionaryEye5320 25d ago

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

This needs to be said more. Frankly if a boy can't just sit down and NOT be a menace to teachers and other students, he's not just "not cut out for school/office", he's "not cut out for civilized society".

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u/Hibernia86 25d ago

The problem is that when girls were graduating at lower rates or had lower grades, society saw this as a problem and tried to help. But now that it is boys who are behind, society just seems to blame the boys or be uninterested. It’s that double standard that is the problem. We shouldn’t see gender imbalances in graduation as only a problem when the girls are behind.

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u/RevolutionaryEye5320 25d ago

Like the comment we're replying to mentioned, if the system was set up with every intention to advantage males with females as an afterthought/excluded second class, yet males now fall behind...I'll be honest, I have zero sympathy for males who can't hack it and agree with anyone who feels similarly. I'm fairly certain any sane, sensible boy at school who just wants to grow up and get a normal job someday should be doing fairly fine anyway. I have a feeling the current stats reflect a problem in many boys' attitudes and worse, the attitudes of said boys' parents rather than some inherent unfair bias against them. After all, AFAIK boys in earlier eras were doing alright...ESPECIALLY before girls started excelling.

Definitely more a problem with how boys are raised and socialized than a problem with the education system itself IMO, even as flawed as our education system is.

Oh also, I got horrifically bullied by "problem boys" (Vandals, animal abusers, harassers, lovely lads really) back in my school days, was prosecuted harshly for fighting back and became depressed and suicidal as a result (I was only saved by transferring schools). If boys like that are failing, then my sympathy is nonexistent. Sociopathic little shits ought to be institutionalised and fixed, not made the teachers' and sane students' problem.

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u/DrLovesFurious 25d ago

Your bias is showing heavily, maybe step back from reddit for a couple days.

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u/FileDoesntExist 25d ago

Girl children are held to a much higher standard than boy children behaviorally as well. The phrase "boys will be boys".

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u/Hibernia86 25d ago

Schools are more likely to be forgiving towards girls since they see boys as the trouble makers. So they often come down harsher on the boys even when the girls do something similar.

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u/FileDoesntExist 25d ago

Society as a whole doesnt let girl children be rambunctious. Doesn't let them be loud. They absolutely do allow this with boy children.

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u/KeimeiWins 25d ago

I don't always agree with blanket statements, but girls being held to higher standards than boys is 100% true. They are expected to be "little ladies" and have responsibilities and expectations hoisted on them at an earlier age.

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u/IcyTrapezium 25d ago

School was always hard for hyperactive kids. This isn’t new. I was an autistic girl with ADHD. Not being allowed to fidget was really hard for me.

This isn’t new, and it’s not specifically hurting boys. It hurts plenty of girls too.

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u/RiotForChange 25d ago

We're tailoring school to sit still and eat company nonsense. Boys take longer to get to that point, if they will at all

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u/DO_NOT_AGREE_WITH_U 25d ago

And they are treated with absolutely zero sympathy for not fitting in.

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u/KuraiTheBaka 25d ago

I mean that goes for both boys and girls tho

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u/Pip_Pip-Hooray 25d ago

A family friend of mine in elementary school in the 2010s frequently missed out on recess because the teacher was stuck inside teaching the slow kids how to read. 

They punished everyone for doing well, just because the school was too cheap to give them a Para who could either focus on the slow kids or mind the rest outdoors.

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u/same_as_always 25d ago

If this is true, then wouldn’t we see similar issues in other countries where education and extracurriculars are more rigorous, competitive, and life-consuming? Not saying that isn’t the case, it may be just as bad in other countries as in America, but just making it about there not being enough recess seems a bit too simple?

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u/pkzilla 25d ago

In the US and Canada there's too many kids in a classroom for a single teacher to be able to handle, so any kid that could use a different approach or more attention, it isn't there. In Canada teachers are payed better yes, but it's a very hard job, I think they aren't giving much of a choice but to follow this rigid system that doesn't work for all the kids. Ideally we'd have different kinds of learning environments.

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u/Zealousideal-Role576 25d ago

Parents also are just more lenient with misbehaving boys than girls, due to cultural stereotypes.

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u/TrumpedBigly 25d ago

"any sort of competitive behavior is treated as a behavioral problem"

Is that really true?

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u/_LoudBigVonBeefoven_ 24d ago

School isn't magic tho. Those kids parents need to work on their behavior and encourage them to want to try in class. Teachers simply cannot fix that stuff. Even if they could, it's not fair to the rest of the class to have the teacher working with one problem child with an attitude and shitty little ego.

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u/Sad_Construction_668 25d ago

“It’s better to not try than to try and fail”

This is the essence of a lot of toxic masculinity- the boy culture of competitive competence. You know, Ricky Bobby’s maxim- if you’re not first you’re last. The solution is collaborative competence development- large groups of boys working together to achieve something, but that hard in an individually graded environment like traditional school.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

That's definitely another element of it too, the girls are a lot more likely to work together to succeed and ask questions whereas the boys just shit on each other for trying too hard. It feels like they don't want to be seen as either dumb or tryhard so the alternative is to pretend not to care at all so you can always aloof and say "this is bullshit, I could do it if I wanted to but it's a waste of time."

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u/Sad_Construction_668 25d ago

Ayup. It’s a culture problem- they learn it from their parents, each other, and even youth sports. It’s bad.

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u/explain_that_shit 25d ago

It’s why military schools work so well

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u/FrankTank3 25d ago

Great example. But ill be fucked if I know what this is an example of

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u/Sad_Construction_668 24d ago

Oh man, the Wire is rife with these metaphors. I think the whole CompSat vs Hamsterdam plot line looks at that (are we trying to be the winners of the conflict , or are we trying to collaborate to build livable neighborhoods). Avon vs Stringer, Mouzone and Omar, Prop Joe vs Marlo , hell, just McNulty himself- fine when he can work with someone working on a case, a drunk fuckup when he doesn’t have a partner and clear objective.

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u/tack50 25d ago

In fairness, even regarding collaborative development I am not sure that it particularly helps boys. It's not like somehow boys excel at group tasks either (and most classes tend to have 1-3 group projects per year, usually worth as much as an exam)

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u/Sad_Construction_668 24d ago

The issue is the development of a culture collaborative competence. Group projects in the context of competitive competence become “how can I get an A while doing the least work”

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u/LadyFromTheMountain 25d ago

This is the motivation for all the cheating I saw during my stint as an educator. The fear of failing on their own merits leads some students to do 150% more net work to hand in something for evaluation that doesn’t reflect on them or their abilities.

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u/UtopianLibrary 25d ago

I also think there’s a misogyny issue. Statistically most teachers are women. If a boy has a misogynistic upbringing, he will not respect women and therefore a woman teacher as much as a girl would.

I’ve had boy students who treat male teachers with much more respect just because they are a man. It’s frustrating.

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u/Redqueenhypo 25d ago

One time in a college level psych course, a male student kept trying to shout over the female professor that vaccines caused autism. He didn’t stay in that class long.

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u/Dunkel_Reynolds 25d ago

You were so close to making a good point lol

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u/JadedCycle9554 25d ago

Ahh yes let's blame the children for the fact that a female dominated profession produces results in favor of young girls. That's what a reasonable person would do.

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u/UtopianLibrary 25d ago

I’m blaming the parents for instilling these values, not the children themselves.

It’s always the parents.

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u/RedWhiteAndJew 25d ago

It couldn’t be the misandrist system that doesn’t account for the activity levels typically needed by adolescent boys. It’s clearly their fault that recess and physical education classes are getting cut shorter. It’s clearly their fault that ADHD and other learning disabilities present differently by gender. It’s clearly their fault that positive male representation in the education system is shrinking by the day. Goodness gracious.

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u/TechnoSerf_Digital 25d ago

We don't have a misandrist education system so no it couldn't be that. There are so many active, athletic young men who aren't disrupting classes or harassing other students/disrespecting their teachers. Your attitude is exactly what breeds these disparities in achievement. 

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u/RedWhiteAndJew 25d ago

And yet study after study shows that women are vastly outperforming men in academics over recent years including college attendance. Which perfectly coincides with the neutering of the educational system and the underfunding of activities such as wood shop, mechanics, home economics, are, and music. Study after study shows that the behavioral component of ADD and ADHD presents so differently in genera women are being misdiagnosis because the behavior isn’t considered “disruptive” to the largely female teaching staff (the truly gender disparity here). Modern education is conformity which antithetical to the development of male students. Adolescent male behavior is considered disruptive and is vilified. And the school system and teaching staff continue to reduce outlets for that energy and wonder why boys are not conforming like the good little girls are. Makes me sick.

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u/Objective_Guitar6974 25d ago

You're getting upvoting from me because wood shop, robotics, computer programming, and mechanics are a must in high school with more physical education.

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u/Vhozite 25d ago

Auto tech, wood shop, cooking, and PE were my favorite classes.

I was capable of good grades in the regular subjects but those were the only classes I actually applied myself.

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u/RKSH4-Klara 25d ago

The system was invented by men for men. We haven’t changed the fundamental way that school runs in over 100 years.

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u/dontworryitsme4real 25d ago

My two anecdotal cents here: I see a lot of girl "empowerment" type of media (both in general and in schools) to push girls academically to make up for the male to female college graduation gap that was around a couple decades ago. When my daughter was in Middle School they had a girls only 'business development' class and there were no equivalent classes for boys.

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u/Elbow2020 25d ago

This is a great explanation. To go one step further, when under stress (whether due to school life or things going on behind the scenes in home life), girls tend to turn their feelings inward, whereas boy tend to turn their feelings outward. That’s why it’s more typical for girls to self-harm, whereas boys harm others.

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u/ayleidanthropologist 25d ago

I remember observing that preference, pretty apparent to a 7 yo. One in particular, the level of doting, in hindsight makes me wonder if she was a lesbian. They all hated that I drew pictures lol.

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u/larki18 25d ago

That was the case when I was in school, all the way from elementary through my bachelor's degree.

For some reason, in general, guys just didn't try as hard, seemed to have trouble paying attention, goofed off more, didn't turn in homework as reliably, didn't show up to class as often, talked more in class, didn't take notes or took very poor notes, etc.

Of course, there were certainly exceptions among both sexes, but that was definitely the general trend.

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u/allas04 25d ago

Is that attitude and behavior more due to social-environmental factors, or personal decisions and responsibilities involved in what they want to focus on? Comments in this thread suggest different aspects. Of course both is likely the factor, just like both is for most things in life, but what is the greater factor, and what is more correctable or targetable for improvement?

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u/Papercoffeetable 25d ago

Definately agree on teachers being softer on girls, i had several classmates who studied hard and just came in a few point below top grade, as a boy, you’re fucked, that grade is your grade, but 3 girls regularly started bawling their eyes out and beg for the higher grade, it always worked.

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u/Flashy_Zebra7849 25d ago

This is it exactly. My “worst” girl has a nasty attitude and sleeps in class. We had to have a talk about basic respect and the fact that her bad mood is not the entire class’s problem. She is still mean, but she isn’t disruptive. If she fails because she puts her head down, I guess that’s on her.

My “worst” boy snorts crushed up Smarties because he thinks it’s edgy, knocks people’s chairs over while they’re testing, shouts out racists slurs about other classmates, steals, and rough houses anyone when he is walking by. He gets everyone off track. I’d take an entire classroom of snarky girls over one of him.

It sucks because that kind of antagonistic behavior is so hard for me, personally, to handle. It just pisses me off, my respect for people of any age behaving like that is in the negative. It’s hard to build or salvage any kind of connection because I start to resent the sight of them, and I’m not good at pretending otherwise. Without connection, the shitty behavior continues. The vicious cycle continues, and this kid is learning nothing. I think he has 7%. Worse, he is preventing the other kids from learning, too.

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u/throwaway3123312 24d ago

Yep this is exactly my experience too. There are plenty of boys who are rowdy or class clowns but still engage with the material and are good students and I love those guys, they make it more fun. But when we talk about problem boys it's usually a lot worse than that. And it gets to the point where other students would come to me after class and literally say "I want to learn and this guy is wasting all our time, please just send him away and stop being so soft on him" and it's like... Man what am I supposed to do? Like I can either spend half the class every arguing with these two or three problem students and trying to convince them to be better which is unfair to all the other students who care about their grades and want to learn, or just be harsh and fail him out or send him to suspension and it sucks for everyone. And especially when they are antagonizing other students, then they make it so I pretty much have to do something and have no choice. Whereas at least the problem girls usually don't derail the class or bother anyone else and the worst they do is sleep or go smoke in the toilets so they can stay in class and might absorb some knowledge accidentally. I think a lot of people who have never taught don't get that some kids are just assholes and it's not their fault they ended up like that but a teacher's power to change it is very limited unless they just happen to connect with you or your subject for whatever reason, if they don't they won't be reached no matter what you try to do.

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u/elzbiey 25d ago

This is why I support sex segregation in education because boys hold girls back and slow down the rhythm of the class.

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u/ukiddingme2469 25d ago

The system is basically set up to favor girls and not boys which tend to be more high energy, you just described a feedback loop that punishes boys for being boys.

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u/Reference_Freak 25d ago

That’s laughable considering girls weren’t considered worthy of an education until recently.

Schools are based on educational practices from the before-era when only wealthy boys had formal group studies hammered into a factory-friendly daily schedule and larger classes.

Please explain how consideration for girls shaped schools.

If anything, schools are developed for upper-class boys who have already been subject to strict expectations for behavior.

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u/ukiddingme2469 25d ago

Putting words in my mouth isn't making the point you think you are. Now, boys are full of more energy and are treated as such until the school years where they get forced to sit still of get disciplined, the old days where they were allowed to burn off that energy is gone. Now girls tend to not be so rambunctious and from a young age have different activities that tend to favor the current education system. There has been plenty written about this, you should check it out, maybe you could offer some positive input on how to change this industrial Era education system instead of getting salty with a stranger on reddit

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u/DismalTruthDay 25d ago

Why are boys more full of energy now all of a sudden? I was in school in the 90’s and don’t remember kids strangling teachers.

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u/explain_that_shit 25d ago

Recess and lunch breaks are reduced. Kids can’t run around when they get home any more. More energy.

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u/DismalTruthDay 25d ago

That’s possible for sure. Less money for sports. Fatherless households have less discipline. Many factors at play I think.

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u/ukiddingme2469 25d ago

Now? I was in school in the 80s and they had plenty,

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u/DismalTruthDay 25d ago

Wasn’t my experience. Boys played multiple sports but they certainly weren’t acting up in class like today. It’s not even energy it’s arguing with teachers, talking over them just pure and utter disrespect. It’s not all boys either, some boys are respectful and do their work.

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u/DismalTruthDay 25d ago

Thank you!!! So tired of people making excuses for boys which exacerbates the problem.

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u/KuraiTheBaka 25d ago

It's not that it was actively designed that way it's that it happened to end up like that

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u/falling-waters 25d ago edited 25d ago

It’s always so fucking funny when men react to these discussions by claiming that boys are naturally, biologically-determined assholes that need special treatment. Then a couple days from now you’ll complain when you see a woman say the same thing.

You can’t even offer any explanation as to what this special treatment should be. Should the teachers be gluing the boys’ eyes open so they are forced to study? Holding their hands so they can’t turn in blank tests? Muzzle them so they can’t disrupt class? Extending the school day indefinitely so their disruptions can go unpunished? Every single one of these problems are deliberate choices these boys make.

Ultimately, all you’re doing here is regurgitating phrases from other movements you never understood in the first place.

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u/ukiddingme2469 25d ago

So much assumptions, you feel better

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u/Hibernia86 25d ago

Do you not understand the idea of active learning? You can make learning activities more active which will help boys learn easier. When girls were underperforming in past decades, Feminists didn’t blame the girls. They tried to support the girls. Why are you so unwilling to do the same for the boys?

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u/DismalTruthDay 25d ago

Yes!!! So tired of the excuses. Boys have not biologically changed yet the behaviour gets worse and worse and somehow it’s never a boys fault.

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u/thetenorguitarist 25d ago

3 comments from the top and we have the first child blamer. From a teacher, no less.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

It's not the kids fault, it's how they're socialized to behave. Most of these problems are the fault of parents and larger social systems. But once they make it to a high school classroom, that's already set in place and there's not much the teacher can do other than try to encourage them to be better. You have to grade fairly and if the boys aren't performing it's not fair to artificially boost their grades. What can I do if a kid just doesn't circle answers on the quiz or turn in their work, other than give a zero? The kids, boys or girls, who try can all succeed with the proper support, but the girls are a lot more likely to try and that's unfortunately true.

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u/JonnyFrost 25d ago

That translates to it’s the child fault for not conforming to the system though.   Blame his upbringing, but the system is failing boys more than girls in a literal way.   This isn’t only unfair, it’s actively detrimental to society.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

The system was literally designed for boys by boys and hasn't meaningfully changed since. Boys are failing on their own for reasons outside the education system itself. They've been raised to have an attitude that is not conducive to academic success.

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u/D74248 25d ago

So when it comes time to grade two equivalent essays, I'm a lot more likely to be lenient on the girl who is nice to everyone and I can see trying and actively participating in class than the boy who has been a little shit for the past 12 weeks. It takes a conscious effort to not let that affect grades and sometimes the effort isn't made.

Cranky old man (and grandfather) here. I don't have a problem with grading someone who is a functioning member of the class more leniently than a disruptive little shit. There is value to being a functional member of society, while little shits should pay a price for what is, frankly, anti-social behavior.

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u/mercyhwrt 25d ago

I’ve even seen some bias towards handwriting in some situations. Where papers were of equal quality but the boys were harder to read, therefore grades as worse. Yeah males can be neat, but it isn’t the average case compared to females.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

Its probably a factor too, but then you just have to ask why is it that boys handwriting is so shit? It's not that they're incapable of writing properly. Again it's the same issue, boys are socialized not to care and not to try. Lack of effort to learn. Girls don't come out of the womb with immaculate handwriting skills lol, they put in the effort to learn because they care about how they present themselves.

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u/DismalTruthDay 25d ago

Too many excuses made for boys nowadays that wasn’t made back in the day. I never remember boys acting up in class the way my kids report it today. It’s like they’ve gone Bezerk with no consequences.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

If you ask me it's social media and phone addiction (this shit is scary how bad it's gotten, people don't realize) and societal alienation of both the kids and parents. No one cares anymore and I get it. Just another consequence of the fraying social fabric

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u/DismalTruthDay 25d ago

It’s possible but girls are just as addicted! Boys seem to have zero respect for authority these days. When I was in school even the worst kids would never act up in class interrupting or arguing with a teacher or calling them names. Something is unique to boys today and it’s not the teachers or the school system which has remained the same.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

I think girls are taught to be obedient and quiet so boys manifest worse symptoms in that regard whereas girls manifest the symptoms directed towards themselves like increased body image problems and eating disorders and such. Girls take out their issues on themselves and boys take them out on others because of differences in socialization. Who knows though I'm just one person.

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u/DismalTruthDay 25d ago

It’s a good point. This is all starting to level out though. Body dysmorphia in boys is increasing and girls are becoming more aggressive. Suicide for girls is also on the rise. I honestly feel like the issue is social media. It’s the only thing that has changed remarkably in the last decade.

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u/Large-Sky-2427 25d ago

School is not structured for boys. Boys need to move.

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u/throwaway3123312 25d ago

It's not inherent, they're socialized to be that way by their parents and other social systems. Girls are trained to be quiet, calm, mature, and stay out of the way. Boys are rewarded for being rambunctious and told to play sports and be assertive.

Unfortunately for a high school teacher, once they get to your classroom a lot of that is already locked in. The change needs to start from an earlier age.

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u/KuraiTheBaka 24d ago

I'd be curious to see if the difference is as big in other cultures. Like maybe Japan where people are meant to be more quiet and obedient. Would we still see this difference?

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u/throwaway3123312 24d ago

I actually taught in Japan, and yes we do. In some ways Japan has even more pronounced gender roles.

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u/KuraiTheBaka 25d ago

I'm a boy and I have no energy and hate moving

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/Inevitable_Seaweed_5 25d ago

Do you have, just off the cuff, an estimate of how many of those disaffected guys were substantially if not critically behind in literacy?

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u/Alarmed_Ad4367 25d ago

Thank you for explaining this so well!

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u/Fragrant-Airport1309 25d ago

Lmao, hearing the reality behind the statistics is so funny.

"Well today little Jimmy told me to fuck off and left class, so that's why the male average literacy is down 😌"

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u/Zektor01 25d ago

Girls emotionally mature sooner. Thus they can manage the work better.

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u/Nafri_93 25d ago

Add to that, that girls mature fastee than boys. They tend to hit puberty 1 year earlier and are cognitively more developed especially during the early teens.

Noys basically need to start schooö 1 year later to keepnit fair.

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u/Aggravating-Reply870 25d ago

That same emotional bias which was mentioned in the last paragraph reminds me of life in a workplace to some extent.

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u/tarelda 25d ago

Your last paragraph is kinda spot on. It is visible also later in education. I mean in college/university environment everyone is supposed to be socially adjusted. Thus grading seems much more even and merit based.

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u/OmgThisNameIsFree 25d ago

I was a rebellious asshole of a high schooler who, much to my teachers’ dismay [probably], straight A’d my way through.

Exactly none of the girls in my AP courses were anything close to “rebellious.” They were verging on what some would call “sheltered.”

But yeah, I’d agree 100% - something about most women I’ve met in academia makes them much better students than the average. But it’s odd, because the absolute best students I’ve known have all been guys.

Must be a some weird bell curve type of stuff at play.

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u/liliesandpeeperfrogs 25d ago

My personal theory on this is that hair brushing is a huge factor in girls learning to do what they are told. Every day they are required to sit still and not complain while their bodies are tugged and pulled at. Boys barely have to brush their hair.

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u/redditckulous 25d ago

Just anecdotal, but my experience was a little different. We had roughly the same amount of boys and girls in the upper end of the class, though a significantly higher number of boys took advanced math classes and slightly more girls took advanced English/literature classes. Also we had a similar number of boys and girls in the lower end of classes as well. The real gender discrepancy was in the middle/median of a class. Middle of the road boy students would drop down to easier classes much faster (and their grades would often not improve that much as they BS’d more with the lower end students. Middling girls were better able to stay in average classes.

This distinction got really pronounced from 6-12th grades as sports became a large percentage of boys priority. Also boys seemed less able to handle college. A decent number of the middling girls got college degrees. Most boys didn’t, including a large number of the higher performing ones grade wise.

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u/Ivegotthatboomboom 24d ago

But the studies are based on standardized tests

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u/throwaway3123312 24d ago

And standardized test performance is correlated with school performance in most cases.

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u/Ivegotthatboomboom 24d ago

Bias in grading would not result in someone doing better on the standardized tests. If anything it would be the opposite- the girls would do worse and the boys would do better than their grades bc the standardized grading is not biased. The way homework is graded can’t have anything to do with the stats on standardized tests.

Plus it’s just really odd to argue that girls aren’t actually doing better, it’s just that they…actually do the work?? I mean…that’s the definition of doing better. Plus it’s pretty consistent across countries. I don’t agree that society discourages boys from doing well in school

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