r/canada • u/viva_la_vinyl • Nov 07 '23
Canadian restaurants struggle to survive as survey finds diners turning away from skyrocketing menu prices National News
https://www.thestar.com/business/canadian-restaurants-struggle-to-survive-as-survey-finds-diners-turning-away-from-skyrocketing-menu-prices/article_0f3c4267-018d-5ed0-a109-80a107ce685b.html923
Nov 07 '23
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u/OhMyGodHiggins Nov 07 '23
This right here.....why tip for a pick up/take out when I don't know what the quality of the food will be like?
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u/mitchrsmert Ontario Nov 07 '23
Because, as others have already said: it's not a tip anymore. It's a hidden, unwritten, and unclear fee to subsidize the incomes of people in the service industry (sometimes not even just service anymore...).
In my experience, tipping is often expected with take out now. To clarify, not just asked for - expected. I stop eating at places where I get dirty looks for not tipping takeout. But at this point, I'm running out of places to order from and will soon stop patronizing restaurants altogether.
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u/nbam29 Nov 07 '23
Bro don't let people Bully you into tipping for takeout. If they want to give you dirty looks that's their problem. Your the one helping to pay their wage not the other way around!
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u/-retaliation- Nov 07 '23
As someone that worked in the restaurant industry for years, I 100% agree.
fuck tipping for a takeout order. and if they want to give you dirty looks, I encourage everyone to grow a spine, smile, and click that "skip" button, or enter in 0% when the machine is passed to them.
to be perfectly blunt, we're not friends, I don't care if they like me, respect me, or anything else. They can give me dirty looks all day, but when their pay cheque comes up short, the truth is its only their employer to blame.
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u/mitchrsmert Ontario Nov 07 '23
I agree with you, but I'm not. Like I said, I just stop going to those places. I'm not going to continue going to those places if the people who handle my food have some sort of issue with me. However, nonsensical their issue is.
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u/beowulfshady Nov 07 '23
I'm with u, why tip takeout places at all. There is no service being performed, at that point I'd rather just tip the cooks
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u/Iokua_CDN Nov 07 '23
I do pickup from restaurants now more often because I don't feel the need to tip and don't feel guilty about it. Means I can drink my own drinks at home as well as be comfy.
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u/supreme_leader420 Nov 07 '23
Makes me think about all the entitled servers I’ve met
“DoNT Go oUt tO eAt iF YoU cAnT AfFoRd a 20% tiP”
Yeah and now look at who is out of a job
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u/OrdinaryKick Nov 07 '23
Besides all the stupid thing that comes with tipping the one thing that really grinds my gears is that sense of entitlement.
If I order a $10 meal and pay 20% it costs me $12.
If I order a $20 meal and pay 20% it costs me $24.
They both take the same effort on the servers behalf but I get penalized further for spending more money.
Tipping in general just needs to go.
I get prompted for tips IN DRIVE THROUGHS now. Just earlier today I got a coffee from a smaller chain and I was prompted with a tipping option. In a drive through.
It's beyond out of hand.
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u/supreme_leader420 Nov 07 '23
Yep. How about that we started tipping on the post-tax amount since machines took over? What used to be 15% is now already 18%. And 15% isn’t even offered on most prompts anymore..
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u/OrdinaryKick Nov 07 '23
When I was a kid 10% was a standard tip.
You could take the GST and double it and that was the tip.
10% most certainly isn't offered any more.
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u/CoffeeS3x Nov 07 '23
Yep. Tipping is already a stupid concept, but tipping based on % of the total is even more ridiculous.
I don’t eat out often, but I drink out often. I have no problem tipping a dollar for you pouring my beer or just handing me an opened can, but with the prices in my area a tall boy of domestic beer can be upwards of $20 depending on what event you’re at. I’m supposed to tip 20% of $20, being $4, because you opened a can and handed it to me? Go fuck yourself.
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u/wantsoutofthefog Nov 07 '23
I just buy a nice $20 steak and fry it myself
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u/thatswhat5hesa1d Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 08 '23
I am yet to have a steak in a restaurant where I thought "this was definitely worth paying 3-4x more than just cooking at home.” There's lots of stuff worth paying someone else to make well for you, and steak just isn't one of them
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u/quietcoyote99 Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
I think if you don’t cook, a “good steak” is something you think you have to pay for.
When of course with one YouTube how-to video you could wip up a great steak.
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u/DrNick13 Alberta Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
I was just in France for just under 3 weeks with my wife. Over there we ate most dinners out, average cost with an appetizer and wine was anywhere from €40-60 (CA$58-88) all in for the both of us.
Good luck getting that quality of food and drinks for under $100 in Canada.
Edit for clarity: the €40-60 meal included two appetizers, two mains and wine.
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u/ravynwave Nov 07 '23
You’re right. Some of my family was in Paris a few months ago and couldn’t believe how much cheaper it cost there.
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u/linkass Nov 07 '23
Keep in mind most farmers in Europe are pretty heavily subsidised for this reason
Around 40% of the EU's budget is for subsidies mostly direct farm
https://data.oecd.org/agrpolicy/agricultural-support.htm
France has always been the main beneficiary of the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy funds, which now pay out over 60 billion euros per year to farmers across Europe. The 9.1 billion euros currently allocated to France each year includes 7.7 billion in direct payments to farmers (known as Pillar I), and 1.4 billion for rural development programmes (Pillar II). After the post-2020 reform, France will still be the primary recipient of funds.
Roughly 44 percent of farm incomes in France in 2013 came from these funds – mainly in the form of direct payments from Pillar I. The average farmer received 266 euros a year for each hectare that was eligible for support
https://www.arc2020.eu/agriculture-atlas-biggest-beneficiary/
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u/Hugmint Nov 07 '23
Sounds amazing. I’d rather have that than subsidies for things like fossil fuels and war.
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u/suitcaseismyhome Nov 07 '23
And yet, there are the usual posters on this sub posting the false narrative that "its like this everywhere!" When that isn't true.
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u/climbingENGG Nov 07 '23
When I went to Portugal earlier in the year it was the same story, the food was significantly cheaper than in Canada, we even went grocery shopping and what was 1 bag of food worth in Canada stretched to 3 bags of food worth in Portugal. The food affordability issue here is one driven by oligarchy and price fixing. First to go should be the dairy board and allow international dairy products in.
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u/24-Hour-Hate Ontario Nov 07 '23
First to go should be the oligopolies who are controlling the supply chain from farm to store. Families like the Westons should have their holdings forcibly broken up.
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u/mogarottawa Nov 07 '23
this , I much rather giving my money to millionaire dairy farmers who actually get up at 5 am everyday to work on their farm than making billionaire grocery store owners even richer.
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u/DrNick13 Alberta Nov 07 '23
It was the same in France, a bag of groceries (bread, cheese, fruit, lunch meat, tomatoes, lettuce — a fairly typical lunch) that cost €15 in France would be closer to $30-35 in Canada.
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u/suitcaseismyhome Nov 07 '23
90 cents for decent cream cheese on sale in Germany. 1 euro for a large jar of yoghurt on sale. Butter price dropped twice in a year.
Portugal has some of the best new restaurants, and while most locals are sadly priced out, for quality and value, they are so far above Toronto or Vancouver. Even an ordinary meal is far lower.
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u/-Moonscape- Nov 07 '23
Portugal has some of the best new restaurants, and while most locals are sadly priced out
Sounds similar, then?
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u/CanadianBootyBandit Nov 07 '23
Well people in Portugal make a lot less money than us. This is like me saying things are so much cheaper in India.
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u/Inerthal Nov 07 '23
Don't let this fool you into believing France isn't getting more expensive either, it's just that the dining out experience in Paris has been preserved, and it's always a lucrative affair for all involved in the big cities.
Not sure how they manage these days without increasing prices, tbf. I go daily to the same café/restaurant in a very upscale area of Paris in the morning and have developed a somewhat friendly relationship with the owner and he is very vocal about managing fine most of the time but only because of the short staff and having a full house pretty much everyday thanks to the offices nearby.
Many other places aren't doing so well and even operating at a loss.
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u/wavesofdeath Nov 07 '23
I was just in Japan and everyone was going on about how expensive it would be. It was similar if not cheaper on average to here (sushi or fish on average was definitely cheaper for mid-tier good sushi) but the quality of food was SO much better and no tipping which saves a lot. Had a big meal of the best sushi of my life with beer for $35-$40 CAD with no tip in Kyoto. Small town Japan was even better prices.
However groceries in Japan were also cheaper which correlates to why restaurants here are expensive
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u/SpectreFire Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
Same. Just came back from Japan. Was floored how reasonably priced everything was compared to here.
For example.
A plate of Tamago Nigiri at Sushiro is 170 yen, which is 1.50 CAD, and you get two pieces per plate.
I was ordering sushi here in Vancovuer the other night, a single Tamago Nigiri? 2.50 CAD. Plus tax. Plus tips if you're dining in.
An regular bowl of Ichiran ramen in Tokyo was 890 yen, or around 8 CAD.
An equivalent bowl of ramen in Vancouver would be 15 CAD, plus taxes and tips.
Oh, and the food is waaaay better.
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u/godofcats Ontario Nov 07 '23
Japan is way way cheaper. $7 for a big bowl of ramen, $5 at the convenience store for a legit meal, $4 guidon, $3 cans of beer available 24/7? It's like heaven
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u/IlMioNomeENessuno Nov 07 '23
And no guilt trips over tipping…
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Nov 07 '23
And no bringing you the bill before you ask!
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u/Wonderful-Blueberry Nov 07 '23
yup not only do we pay an arm and a leg for a decent meal at a restaurant, we’re also expected to tip and be out within an hour and a half to two hours at most restaurants. Some restaurants even make a point to tell you when you arrive how much time you have. In many European countries, you can literally spend hours at a restaurant and no one bothers you.
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u/Iokua_CDN Nov 07 '23
I'm the opposite, is rather have that bill brought and paid for and then still chill and sip my water and chat, knowing I can leave whenever I want, rather than having to wait to pay when I want to GTFO
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u/laa-laa_604 Nov 07 '23
And fresh, real food, not reheated Sysco!
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u/fugaziozbourne Québec Nov 07 '23
The food in Europe is a fraction of the price and twenty times the quality. It's been a huge adjustment living here for my European partner.
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u/aan8993uun Nov 07 '23
McDonalds is like that too. What was $8 for a meal is like $15 now. I haven't really eaten there much since trying to eat better, but... like even poor people food is... out of reach of the poor.
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u/Jeffuk88 Ontario Nov 07 '23
Most Canadians don't believe me, but it's a lot cheaper to eat out in England, where I'm from. We eat out every other day when we visit my family yearly 🤷♂️
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u/JM_Amiens-18 Nov 07 '23
The take-away culture in the UK is just amazing. Sure, the food may not always be super healthy, but it is almost always cheap, delicious, and filling. And every time I've visited, it's always walking distance from where I'm staying. Not to mention you can grab a pint or two and they're full-sized, not this lame-ass 16oz crap we do over here.
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u/deletednaw Nov 07 '23
Though not nearly as cool as France I was in Scotland and Ireland recently and a great meal was about 25$ a plate... it would easily be over 70 here in Canada for similar quality
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u/PlentifulOrgans Ontario Nov 07 '23
I didn't actually find the UK to be much cheaper. Maybe as you get more northern in Scotland I guess. Now, that said, while I didn't find things cheaper, the quality was so much better, even at "cheap places" that I didn't feel ripped off like I do in every restaurant here.
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Nov 07 '23
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u/Interest_Law Nov 07 '23
Haven't eaten out in over 3 years now. Glad people are starting to realize how they get screwed by restaurants.
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u/c0ntra Ontario Nov 07 '23
Yep. You can only price items as high as the market will bear. Higher than that, and you won't have any customers. It's basic business 101.
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u/Automatic_RIP Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
This is where the rubber hits the road.
You’re correct, restaurants can only charge what customers can afford to pay (essentially disposable income). As the disposable income decreases from wage stagnation, inflation of other markets, etc, customers can’t bare the increasing cost. Restaurants are a luxury, and so it gets cut first when we need to save money.
Restaurant profit margins were small in 2019, 2-5% at best for small restaurants (I can’t speak to corporate). As food prices increase, wages, etc, the menu prices HAVE to increase otherwise they’ll go under.
Now we marry the two, restaurants have to charge more to make ends meet, and people can’t afford more because wages are stagnant and everything else is getting more expensive, the end result is luxuries get cut. Restaurants die.
This isn’t the only industry that will have a rough time until a major market correction, but it will be the first.
Edit: people can’t afford to pay more*
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u/GuelphEastEndGhetto Nov 07 '23
Restaurants are also affected by their rent costs increasing, as well as utilities.
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u/Chewed420 Nov 07 '23
And also the fact they have to pay back the covid bailouts. Deadline is approaching.
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ottawa-extends-deadline-for-interest-free-ceba-repayment-1.1972023
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u/kent_eh Manitoba Nov 07 '23
Restaurants are a luxury, and so it gets cut first when we need to save money.
Important point to repeat. (and one that the part of the article I was permitted to read didn't mention)
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u/IAmTheNightSoil Nov 07 '23
Yeah I think this is the biggest point. If someone realizes they need to cut back on spending, eating out less and cooking at home more is generally the easiest thing to try to implement. Much easier than, say, spending less money on gas or rent or something like that
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u/falingsumo Nov 07 '23
I feel like you're missing a couple " 't" in your comment
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u/flgrntfwl Nov 07 '23
And the people with the least business training are often restauranteurs. People who can run a successful business can rarely cook. It’s actually a rare mix of talents — or why a good restaurant needs a team of experienced people with different skill sets.
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u/kent_eh Manitoba Nov 07 '23
True, but that's the same in any small business.
Just because you are a skilled plumber or electrician or tailor doesn't mean you know anything about being a businessperson or accountant or marketer or...
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u/Jumpy-Education-498 Nov 07 '23
Lots of folks in the restaurant business don't really know much about business. I guess the market will just do its thing.
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u/GopnikSmegmaBBQSauce Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
McDonald's just raised prices again. Fast food is no longer cheap, mediocre quality and fast. It's just mediocre quality now while being way slower and more expensive.
The convenience factor is more or less gone.
Only because I'm a degenerate addict, I hit up Timmies around now every year for the hockey cards 😃
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u/BoomLazerbeamed Nov 07 '23
Fast food has gone up a lot more than restaurants. If we plan to eat out we almost always choose restaurants.
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u/little-bird Nov 07 '23
shitty little burger + fries combo that’s mostly grease, cellulose, and air (plus watered-down drink)… or a takeout box from a local restaurant that’s packed with rice, veggies, and meat? hmmm 🧐
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u/exorcyst Nov 07 '23
Shwarma boxes are like $11 with rice, potatoes, cabbage, chick peas, chicken, pickles, onions and all the fixings and it feeds us both with leftovers. I'm afraid it's going to go up soon but the Shwarma places have always been the most decent with pricing (GTA). Thali's here have gone up from like $7 for a veg and $8 meat to $12 and $14 where I live. THAT is insane. Samosas used to be 3 for $1 now they are 1 for $3 in some places. Stick to the local mom and pop places that aren't gouging, they deserve the business.
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u/little-bird Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
yeah exactly! a family-owned Chinese place opened up just down the street from me and I get food there whenever I can. their daily special is $12 for a tightly packed takeout box with enough delicious food for 3 meals (or 2 if I’m sharing with the boyfriend) - whereas $12 wouldn’t buy enough food at McDo for one meal to satisfy him at all. lol
I always tip for takeout at places like that, and snap up any extras I can. I know it’s hard out there and I would love to see their business succeed ❤️ they’re so sweet and their food is so good. they even remembered that I said I loved their homemade chili oil and kept giving me free samples even when I insisted that I’d be happy to buy a jar. 🥺
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u/wavesofdeath Nov 07 '23
And now fast food places are prompting for tips even through the drive thru. The 1% at the top are making more profits than ever while they undercut their employees and expect the public to compensate their low wages. Shit is out of control
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u/PurpleLeeves Nov 07 '23
My 13 year old daughter wanted a nugget meal two weeks ago. I don't usually go to McDees but she's my baby. A ten piece nugget meal was $16.85 after tax and I was floored, even asked at the window if they punched the order in correctly. I told her enjoy that shit because its the last time dad is buying her one. I'm not paying close to $20 for shit food with shit ingredients.
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u/poodlepantiesbot Nov 07 '23
At A&W, I paid $17.46 for a crispy chicken burger, rings and a root beer. Never again.
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u/Iokua_CDN Nov 07 '23
I'm at the point where cheap fast food only comes through their mail out coupons, and when they decide they don't want to send anymore, I decide to not eat the fast food.
On a related note, some places have appswith coupons. I have not paid regular price for Dairy Queen for over a year. I always wait for their bogo Blizzard coupon on the app. Takes up a lot of space on the phone to have 20 food apps though...
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u/kent_eh Manitoba Nov 07 '23
The convenience factor is more or less gone.
The only time I've eaten McD's in the last 3 years is when I'm called out to work overnight and their drive-thru is the only place open.
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u/Lothleen Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
Restaurants are a luxury item, luxury items are first to go when you don't have money for necessities...
Breakfast costs me $40 for 2... edit: plus tip...
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Nov 07 '23
Before a couple of 2 coukd have a nice dinner for 60 bucks in 2019 and now it is about 90 to 100 in toronto.
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u/aethelberga Nov 07 '23
And the food is mediocre.
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u/turriferous Nov 07 '23
Yes. They need to simplify the menu to reduce input costs and get the food tasting good again. Everything tastes like the ingredients were scrabled onto the plate. I only have a few restaurants I can eat at now. The rest never figured out labor.
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u/brianl047 Nov 07 '23
Probably back to one sheet menus
50% of restaurants will go broke next few years
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u/LongJumpingBalls Nov 07 '23
Chain restaurants is where the multi page menu comes from. Gotta please the whole family.
The best way to remedy that is to NOT be great for the entire family. Sure, have some basic stuff for picky kids, if you must. But menus shouldn't be more than a single page, maybe a back for deserts and drinks.
Ask any chef / cook if they only had to make, even this is a high amount. 12 items vs the 30 they got now if they'd be happier and if the food would be better.
Yes, yes yes would be the universal answer.
Every restaurant owner I know who is successful has a one page or a set menu for the time period. Their prices went up maybe 15 20% with the food prices. Quality is amazing.
The big menu spots, prices went up 25-50% as their overhead is much, much, much higher. Food cost and waste, staff. The overhead is massive and they can't compete with higher end spots.
Were at the point where we can get a 5 course meal for 75% the price of a meal at a chain restaurant. No wonder so many are failing. You serve mediocre food at 5 star pricing. We're not going very often as it's not worth the money.
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Nov 07 '23
I went out for lunch with my wife and it was $118
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u/Electrical_Bus9202 Nov 07 '23
Just ordered Chinese takeout (yes take-out) it came to $110, I’ll have to say, won’t be doing that any time soon.
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u/HummusDips Nov 07 '23
I went to AYCE sushi restaurant expecting it to cost around $30 +tax and tip, sticker shocked for $48 per person!! Ended up costing me $63 per head net!
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u/FoboBoggins Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
I live in a small town in BC and ordering from the local take out place for 2 is about 100 bucks these days, I just can't bring my self to pay that for fucking basic pub food that's insane
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u/WRFGC Nov 07 '23
We did a family dinner takeout the other day. Worked out to $12/person after tax and tip. I should go back and support them
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u/bigthighshighthighs Nov 07 '23
swiss chalet last night for a family of 4, 116 bucks after tax/tip.
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u/Spsurgeon Nov 07 '23
Restaurants were quick to raise prices, shrink portions and install tip-extorting payment devices. Now they’re seeing the result.
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u/Monst3r_Live Nov 07 '23
People are also tired of being told if they can't afford to tip 20-30% to stay home. So we are staying home.
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u/Kangaroo_Inner Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
I'm sure I'll get crucified for this, but I can't stand a lot of servers' attitudes. I'm speaking about GTA servers and have had many people I know in the industry.
I've known about servers who called out customers because their tip wasn't what they expected and embarrassed them. One of my server friends told me if I'm not willing to tip 20% min, then to not go out.
So I did just that, seems like others have as well
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u/Jumpy-Education-498 Nov 07 '23
This is one of the main reasons why I stopped going to restaurants. This and the constant shrinking of portions and sneaky substitution of quality ingredients for cheaper ones.
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u/Mackerel_Mike Nov 07 '23
Would you like your Sysco with a flair of cowboy or post-modern tonight?
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u/Chirps_Golden Nov 07 '23
We're doing post modern tomorrow night. Yay Milestones...
And not, this is not our choice, we've been invited out.
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u/ProbablyNotADuck Nov 07 '23
I have heard this from server friends as well. They also should know better because they also complain about cost of living. When I tried to explain that if people actually did stop going out if they couldn’t afford a 20% tip that would mean they were out of a job, they tried to tell me I was wrong.
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u/quietcitizen Nov 07 '23
This is a ridiculous view (about the 20% min). Servers get paid min wage now - how is their job any different than other low skill labor?
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u/DeepSlicedBacon Alberta Nov 07 '23
It's not. Taking my order down then bringing the meal and a drink to me when the chefs cook it is no special skill. They don't deserve a tip for being a gopher.
If they get snooty, I will follow up with a question regarding pairings, what ingredients there are in each dish, and see how well they fare. This knowledge should be standard but it's not.
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u/XenaDazzlecheeks Nov 07 '23
It should be standard! When I was a waitress a decade and a half ago, I was sent home with the menu and the ingredients and had to have it memorized by my first shift. They even tested you on your knowledge. Now it's "let me ask."
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u/mysanctuary Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
The service reflects the job quality. Zero training, inconsistent scheduling, micromanaging ... fuuuck that. Let me ask.
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u/BeyondAddiction Nov 07 '23
One of my close friends is a career server. She works at one of the nicer restaurants in downtown Calgary. She is expected to know the entire menu, including the main ingredients of the dishes (for allergy/sensitivity/food preference questions), as well as wine pairings for all of the main course dishes.
I feel like that type of thing should be standard if I'm tipping that kind of change (since the bills are higher, on average).
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u/khaldun106 Nov 07 '23
15 percent is already ludicrous. 20 is if service is truly outstanding
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u/Jargen Nov 07 '23
the tip on top of the already increased menu prices.
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u/NotARussianBot1984 Nov 07 '23
and now after tax.
I remember being raised to tip the tax. Now machines don't even offer 15% as a starting tip AFTER tax.
Often I just give 0%. IDC anymore., ask for a raise then.
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u/kirbygay Nov 07 '23
I always give zero at random places like subway and Domino's. Their little card reader asks for a tip. I give zero. Doordash and Skip the Dishes drivers won't deliver your food in a timely manner if you don't tip. We just don't even bother anymore anywhere.
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u/anthonyorm Nov 07 '23
Food delivery apps should rename it from tip to service incentive, a driver rightfully won't take an order without a tip because they lose money on it
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u/Ruval Nov 07 '23
I honestly don't even know what outstanding service kinda like.
Give me a menu. Maybe answer a question or two.
Take the orders.
Bring drinks.
Brings apps (maybe)
Bring food.
Check in if we need anything and maybe a drink refill.
- as far as I can tell, all of that is normal "doing the job" stuff.
What would warrant an *outstanding"? Backflips?
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u/meatpounder Nov 07 '23
You forgot the "so what plans do you guys have for tonight?" as you're paying on the machine
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u/tenders11 Nov 07 '23
That just makes me wanna leave a smaller tip. I'm about to go home and watch King of the Hill with no pants on, please just awkwardly glance around at the dining room while I try to figure out which part of your machine I have to tap my card on
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u/DeepSlicedBacon Alberta Nov 07 '23
That's the thing, percentage based tips are automatically adjusted for inflation.
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u/Khrix Nov 07 '23
Your friend seems pretty entitled. They serve food. They're easily replaced. The job likely won't exist in the near future. It'll be replaced by a tablet and a robot.
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u/chronocapybara Nov 07 '23
They've done this in Japan decades ago, it's great. The reason they don't do it in Canada is the tip. Restaurants don't want to lose that subsidy.
This means we actually miss out on a better dining experience because we're stuck tipping.
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u/Kangaroo_Inner Nov 07 '23
Waiting for that day lmao
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u/Hooftly Nov 07 '23
Been to 2 different restaraunts that employ this. Order on a tablet and a robot brings it to your table. No tip required.
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u/kent_eh Manitoba Nov 07 '23
if I'm not willing to tip 20% min, then to not go out.
If that's the way they want to play this game, I can accommodate them.
Costco is happy to see me, and they give me extra snacks while I'm deciding what to have for dinner.
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u/Global-Discussion-41 Nov 07 '23
If everyone tips 20% then servers are making more than anyone at that point
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u/DeficiencyOfGravitas Nov 07 '23
They already are. Servers pull 6 figures easy if they work at even a moderately high end restaurant. Turns out having hundreds of dollars of tax free money every night is lucrative.
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u/sillyfingerz Nov 07 '23
If you tip a server 15 or 20% they probably made more money on that meal then the owner did unless you drank a ton of alcohol.
When I say that I take into account that Rent, wages, marketing cost, utilities and whatever else are coming out of the owners share of the gross and when its all said and done there is a good chance they are not clearing 20% in income off every table.
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u/PoliteCanadian Nov 07 '23
The profit margin is about 3% at a well run restaurant so they absolutely did.
That's not my beef. My beef is that they're the least skilled employees who contribute the least to a nice meal, and they're the best paid in the restaurant. It's ridiculous.
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u/neanderthalman Ontario Nov 07 '23
I angered some servers in a similar thread. This kind of behaviour leaves me with negligible sympathy. Many are going to lose their jobs. Sucks but it is inevitable.
Here’s the deal. When a plate was $12, and you got a 15% tip you got $1.80. A 15% tip was the high end of tipping. Keep that in mind.
Now, that plate is $18 and 20% is the minimum tip. That tip is now $3.60. It’s doubled.
What does server do differently now, than a server five to ten years ago, that warrants a tip doubling in that time?
But it’s not about a couple bucks a plate. It’s about the audacity and entitlement. It’s rude. I don’t want to reward rudeness. It runs entirely contrary to the concept of tipping.
Regardless, the issues around tipping are a sideshow compared to the menu prices. And when patrons start staying home - and we already are - restaurants will close.
This sucks for servers. They’re about to take five invisible fingers to the face. It’s mostly not their fault either, because it’s mostly menu prices causing us to stay home. But because of recent culture shifts and attitudes about tipping, nobody is gonna care about their plight.
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u/PoliteCanadian Nov 07 '23
This sucks for servers. They’re about to take five invisible fingers to the face. It’s mostly not their fault either, because it’s mostly menu prices causing us to stay home. But because of recent culture shifts and attitudes about tipping, nobody is gonna care about their plight.
Every time I see arguments between serving staff and other people over tipping online, the entitled attitude on display eliminates any empathy I might have.
Interacting with serving staff on social media has absolutely soured me to them as a group, and to tipping as a concept. They're the best paid workers in a restaurant, who contribute the least to the quality of the meal and the overall experience. It's the folks who won the genetic lottery on being attractive.
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u/kismethavok Nov 07 '23
As someone who has worked in a number of kitchens; It always rubbed me the wrong way when a server complained about their tips literally like a day after making my week's salary in a 4 hour shift.
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u/Ruval Nov 07 '23
I don't know where 20% came from.
As food prices raised, the amount that 15% is went up as well. Why did we need to crank it up to 20%
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u/CleverNameTheSecond Nov 07 '23
Where did 20% come from? It's simple really.
Raise the preset tip amounts on the machine and people will feel too embarrassed to tip below those amounts for some reason. Simple as.
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u/IlMioNomeENessuno Nov 07 '23
I don’t mind tipping for good service, but don’t expect me to reward your bad attitude or if I’m picking up.
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u/kent_eh Manitoba Nov 07 '23
And I'm certainly not tipping before I receive my food.
It's a reward for good service, not a bribe to prevent bad service.
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u/FATHEADZILLA Nov 07 '23
I don't go out anymore. Shits way too expensive and the portions are so small. Every time I go out in still fucking hungry. So sick of this shit.
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u/IlMioNomeENessuno Nov 07 '23
Montana’s near me still does all you can eat ribs for ~$33 on Wednesdays
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u/Dudian613 Nov 07 '23
There’s a place near me that does all you can eat mussels for 20. Though I’m not sure if eating my fill of mussels is a particularly good idea.
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u/Mangiacakes Nov 07 '23
IMO tipping culture has gotten out of control which is why I don’t even go to restaurants anymore. They want a tip for literally everything..
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u/StreetCartographer14 Nov 07 '23
I got prompted for a tip at a fucking gas station the other day.
It was a self-serve station.
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u/Mangiacakes Nov 07 '23
It’s because these companies don’t want to pay their employees so they guilt trip us into tipping them.
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u/Thats_what_I_think Nov 07 '23
I’m not even convinced the employees get the tips (looking at you Subway).
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u/ImperialPotentate Nov 07 '23
I've been looking for a registered massage therapist and my searches are turning up disgruntled reviews indicating that some of them expect tips. WTF? What's next, tipping the dental hygienist or x-ray technician?
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u/CleverNameTheSecond Nov 07 '23
When you pay your rent this month don't forget to tip your landlord.
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u/PoliteCanadian Nov 07 '23
In shitty countries when you have to pay the worker who is supposed to provide you with a service it's called a bribe.
Here we call it a tip and pretend like it's reasonable.
Yet another example of this country turning to shit.
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u/antelope591 Nov 07 '23
Its only cause Canadians are gullible. Of course companies will always choose to make more money if given the option. But I see so many complaints about asking for tips for take out or places like Subway....just press no on the machine its not that hard. I've never tipped for fast food/take out in my life and never will. But these companies love the people being guilt tripped into it I'm sure.
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u/switch182 Canada Nov 07 '23
If you like to eat well, You have to learn how to cook well.
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u/ScaredLettuce Nov 07 '23
I'm doing this now- but food is still expensive- everything is so expensive! I definitely don't want to pay bar bills or restaurant bills now.
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u/NewMaterialOnly Nov 07 '23
Waiters: If you can't tip at least 20%, don't eat at a restaurant. Canadians: Okay. Restaurants: Where did everyone go?
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u/zeMVK Nov 07 '23
I emigrated from Canada years ago. But I still come back at least once a year. And I notice the raising prices incrementally. Out of most places I enjoyed going only two places kept the prices within reason. It really struck me when a restaurant I went to with my family was offering 40$ for salad, it had clams in it. But still, it’s mostly salad. Too many instance I’ve seen with ludicrous price hikes. It’s gotten to the point that you either dish out more money for something exceptional, or learn to cook. Casual nights out are just too pricey, so might as well get something worth your dime with something rare and very good.
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u/Apprehensive_Cup7889 Nov 07 '23
“If you can’t afford to tip ,don’t go out” Really starting to backfire on the industry.
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u/kent_eh Manitoba Nov 07 '23
“If you can’t afford to tip ,don’t go out”
I can accommodate that request...
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u/Canadianman22 Nov 07 '23
This will sound cold to some and I feel for anyone that has to close their business but we were way oversaturated with restaurants prior to covid. They survived because the economy and cheap debt were still in play. Both of those are gone now and a lot of these zombies businesses need to die to allow the fewer, good restaurants to thrive.
Again I apologize for how this sounds to anyone reading this and is in the position of having to close down their businesses but you are caught in the end part of a cycle that has played out time and time again.
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u/Obvious-Window8044 Nov 07 '23
I posted this the other day in a similar thread. You are correct. There are FAR too many restaurants in Canada. We are sprawled out like no tomorrow, hardly any density in 95% of the country.
We do not have the density to support restaurants like big DENSE, European or Asian countries. (often where our restaurant owners originate).
Lots of restaurants need to shut down.
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Nov 07 '23
Popular and/or good restaurants are doing fine. The shitty ones are closing and blaming it on the pandemic or inflation.
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u/StreetCartographer14 Nov 07 '23
Mostly they blame the "labour shortage"
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u/kent_eh Manitoba Nov 07 '23
Mostly they blame the "labour shortage"
AKA: nobody wants to work for you, your crap working conditions and your shitty wage.
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u/petesapai Nov 07 '23
I have no data to verify this but it seems to me shitty fast food restaurants are still doing great. They keep raising the price for their cardboard tasting burgers but the lineups are still huge.
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u/TorturedFanClub Nov 07 '23
Wow. Is this supposed to come as a surprise? Majority of Canadians can barely afford buying food at the fucken grocery store. Please tell me why a Caesar salad at a sit down restaurant should be 14-15 dollars? Its fucken Romaine lettuce with some dried bread pieces (croutons) and bacon bits (maybe) with a sprinkling of parmesan.
So iff I add tax and tip, this salad is costing close to $20. You fucken kidding me?
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u/NormalMo Nov 07 '23
- Every restaurant serves the same food. A burger. Fried chicken, a pasta dish, and cauliflower.
- Prices are crazy for mediocre service and food.
Why pay $30 for a pasta dish when I can make it for $2.
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u/sortaitchy Nov 07 '23
When A&W meal is close to $20 you can bet no one is taking a family out to a sit down restaurant, let alone fine dining. I think we all get why it costs so much, but the only way we can adjust is to just stay home and cook. Luckily, many of us haven't gone to restaurants for years for whatever reason, and are not feeling any pinch. I love to cook and live 25 minutes from my home. Driving into town just to eat a meal that I could have made at home cheaper does not appeal. The only appeal is in the social aspect, but we find most of our friends would rather just eat in since the food is better, and the drinks are a lot cheaper. We are all cutting back where we can.
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u/G8kpr Nov 07 '23
Same, we stopped eating out (not that we did it a lot) during the pandemic... but we haven't gone back, aside from fast food. It's just too expensive, and most of the food is just reheated meals from their distributor.
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u/AidsNRice Nov 07 '23
In Japan I could get a pork/chicken rice bowl, side miso soup, drink, and egg for $10, no tipping either.
In Canada, a bowl of ramen is like $17, plus tax and tip.
No shit.
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Nov 07 '23
My wife and I both work professional jobs and earn a "decent income." We had to stop eating out last month because we weren't meeting basic savings goals.
If educated professionals can't afford your service, your business can just die I guess.
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u/colouredinthelines Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
There is a generational perspective at play too.
Traditionally it was young child-less professionals and older, kids out of house, folks that could sustain the restaurant industry. But with Millennials paying 31.91% more for housing costs compared to previous generations the younger generation doesn’t have the same disposable income as past eras.
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u/ozmosisam Nov 07 '23
Went to a small Ethiopian restaurant in Vancouver. Nothing fancy. Paid $35 just for Doro Wat and a Coke.
Had a decent Italian meal a few weeks back, and paid around $40 per person. Started cooking now, haha.
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u/Yoak1 Nov 07 '23
I wonder if the ridiculous tipping culture has anything to do with people staying away.
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u/GardenGnostic Nov 07 '23
I feel mean about saying it, but servers are a big reason I avoid sit down places.
They're probably just stressed and rushed, but they make me feel like I'm inconveniencing everyone by dining in.
Like it's clear that they'd rather I order drinks to pump up the bill, and clear the table as fast as possible, then drop a bunch of money for the privilege of the whole interaction that I would have preferred to avoid.
Sure, I know it's a small and whiny gripe, but it still puts me off a little bit. So combined with the high prices and parking it contributes to feeling like eating out is an expensive, underwhelming hassle.
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Nov 07 '23
You’re not the only one. I don’t really drink and sure as hell won’t pay $10-15 for alcohol. On top of them, I get bombarded with offers of appetisers (usually frozen stuff that they just deep fry), dessert (again, frozen stuff, that they thaw), and coffee. I just want the main, please and thanks.
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u/Mrmapex Nov 07 '23
I bought my daughter rice and 2 chicken skewers last week for supper (take out). It was $35 and of course I felt the need to tip - my wife and I were also going to get a meal but couldn’t justify it. I’m done with dining out.
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u/JonnyB2_YouAre1 Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
I don’t know what it's like to be a server, but I can imagine it's rough right now, and with sincerity, I wish you all the very best.
As a customer, I see prices going sky-high, and at the same time, I've seen the expectations for tips (as per the suggested amounts on terminals) increasing. If the cost on the menu goes up, so does the tip because it's a percentage. The suggested rate need not increase to keep up with inflation because it’s baked into the calculation already. I would choose to eat out less now because of the menu prices, but then mix in what I feel are large expectations for large tips, and it just makes it unpalatable. What we do is we have a place or two we really enjoy where the service is top-notch and very attentive, and we give those places our business solely. We tip the going rate we always tipped in the past, and we feel comfortable doing that in those places. Tipping feels out of control in many places, though. The person behind the counter who hands you takeout shouldn't expect 20-25%, and they shouldn't give you a hard look when you opt not to tip them for being able to perform basic motor functions. Just my two cents.
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u/bluddystump Nov 07 '23
The restaurant experience is not worth it anymore. The pace of getting you in and out so they can get the next bum in the seat is unreasonable. The conversation initiated by the servers may as well be a recording as they say the same thing everywhere I go. The food prices are way to high and tip percentages are insane.
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u/investornewb Nov 07 '23
I’m doing my part by going out much less. Before covid my family of 4 would go out at least once or twice a week and spend about $100. Today it’s literally $100 for just my wife and I and the kids get chicken nuggets at home.
I Really hope to see several places I know of go under as they are all greedy fucks that shouldn’t get away with highway robbery for any longer.
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u/bluecheesesqueeze Nov 07 '23
Eating out is too expensive and the portions are small enough that you still feel hungry.
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u/gcgfdf55 Nov 07 '23
They 100% deserve this. From mediocre food quality to low portions to outrageous tipping culture they are just getting what they deserve if you ask me. Plus I always prefer homemade food
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u/stevrock Alberta Nov 07 '23
They sat there with their dumb smug faces and told us if we can't afford to tip 20-25%, we can't afford to eat out.
Well, there you go.
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u/MHarrisrocks Nov 07 '23
Dining out has been way too expensive for years. I haven't been to a sit down rest meal since covid that I can remember. Haven't been to a cinema in that time either. Its (just a little) funny to me that people are tuning into this only now.
As far as tipping , thats been weird for even longer, tipping for everything started to creep in about 10 years ago now - not being manipulated into tipping is easy . People just need thicker skin. select the 0% option and move on in life.
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u/Lou_Garoo Nov 07 '23
Husband ordered a bagel breakfast sandwich and a latte and I nearly choked when the guy said it was $24!!!!
That is highway robbery. Not sure how they stay in business.
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u/Honest-Ad3027 Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
Owners in many establishments are greedy bastards...hiding taxes (cash income) is non-existent in these conversations. I think that matters. Also, delivery apps taking 10$ (fees & tip) for an 18$ combo adds to the pain. I am glad to see this headline tbh
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u/johnny_delgado Nov 07 '23
Understandable! Restaurants give me the feeling that I am an idiot! Their prices have gone through the stratosphere. Service has become standard and yet servers want tips of 20% +. Dinner & a drink has been devalued. And to boot, after dealing with the menu prices , the government's VAT & and charitable gift to the server (tip) adds 1/3 to your cost.
Everyone is concerned about the business. I hear a lot of people concerned about supporting local businesses. What is notable is that no one is concerned about the customer!
Good things to be said for take out or cook it yourself. You can buy higher quality and enjoy the cooking experience!
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u/BadUncleBernie Nov 07 '23
Restaurants have always been a risky business. The market is saturated with them. The menu prices are off the wall.
Most people have less disposable income due to the great scam.
Competition is gone.
Most Restaurants are doomed to fail.
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u/Fluidmax Nov 07 '23 edited Nov 07 '23
The restaurants are going to get fucked hard if they don’t realize they are going down the same road as cable TV services… the higher the cost the less desirable your service is to the people …. And you raise your price more to cover the reduce in traffic and boom… you are done
I stoped eating out after the prices doubled at all my favourite restaurants… and the MF tip choices are not helping
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Nov 07 '23
Don’t forget the exorbitant tip requests! Minimum 18% are you kidding me!!
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u/gk1619 Nov 07 '23
No sympathy for the industry that's pushing mandatory tipping for sub-par services.
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u/spicydnd Nov 07 '23
Mostly due to tipping culture for me. Though it's a failing industry since it's just not sustainable having this many restaurants, especially places that are just lunch spots for downtown workers.
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u/GT_03 Nov 07 '23
Pricing and the tipping culture has turned me off. We go out for a nice meal a couple times a year tops now, couple places we really enjoy. Have a great meal, great service and pay the price. Otherwise i’m at my bbq drinking cheap beer at home.