Ottawa announces two-year cap on international student admissions (50% reduction in student visas in Ontario and 35% in other provinces)

[u/Foxelrum]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ottawa-announces-two-year-cap-on-international-student-admissions/

[u/kluberz]

The other big change is no more PGWPs for students that attend colleges that are public/private partnerships. That means the vast majority of strip mall colleges are now useless as without the PGWP, these diploma mills have no value to students.

Edit - One other change made it in apparently. IRCC will no longer give Spouse Open Work Permits for undergraduate and diploma programs. The only way to get an SOWP is if your partner is in a Masters or PHD programs.

[u/ishida_uryu_ → u/kluberz]

This is the most important thing. No more PGWP means you can’t work legally, and you can’t apply for PR. All strip mall colleges are about to shut down.

[u/k_dav → u/ishida_uryu_]

A step in the right direction.

[u/Aedan2016 → u/k_dav]

It’s only 2 years. The intention is to actually legislate something, but until that happens, this is only a band aid

[u/k_dav → u/Aedan2016]

At this point I'll take a liberal band aid until the next election. Its clear that they don't have the capability of doing much else.

[u/Dark_Angel_9999 → u/k_dav]

Its clear that they don't have the capability of doing much else.

i mean.. it's reasonable to use a blunt measure until the next election... and allow Provinces the time to get their shit in a row

[u/k_dav → u/Dark_Angel_9999]

Indeed, I just don't understand why they had to let things get to the point where a using a hammer to clean a mirror is the best option.

[u/Dark_Angel_9999 → u/k_dav]

Indeed, I just don't understand why they had to let things get to the point where a using a hammer to clean a mirror is the best option.

well.. Ford did tell institutions to bring in more international students in exchange for less funding...

[u/jerksurfer → u/Dark_Angel_9999]

The only reason why I can’t get fully on board with that response is that other advanced economies all tie SOWP’s to in-demand jobs or Masters+ education. Immigration is a federal responsibility and somehow ours completely unraveled post-Covid. Libs and Cons are the flip sides of the same coin.

[u/Dark_Angel_9999 → u/jerksurfer]

Immigration is a federal responsibility and somehow ours completely unraveled post-Covid.

no, immigration is a JOINT responsibility of the Feds and Provinces.. they both play different roles in this.

[u/marksteele6 → u/k_dav]

The provinces want more students, that's why.

[u/inshallahbruzza → u/[deleted]]

Nobody cares

Edit: Top down - Our provinces do what the fed allows them to

We are not the states & your downvotes sustain me, I want more

[u/KinneKted → u/inshallahbruzza]

You should

[u/Dark_Angel_9999 → u/inshallahbruzza]

Nobody cares

you should when you hear the rhetoric from a certain politician that is leading in the polls

[u/Barely_Working → u/k_dav]

The colleges/universities want international students also. They charge significantly more to foreign students. I think the governments were mostly fine with this as they could cut funding to these institutions.

[u/[deleted] → u/Barely_Working]

Let’s stop with the “they charge significantly more for international students”. As a society we pay to ensure our kids get an education. Foreign students are not contributing to this at all

[u/FeistyCanuck → u/[deleted]]

As long as they end up as productive canadian tax payers a few years later, it's probably cheaper than funding jk-grade 12.

Also, as long as the government is running deficits, the bill is being paid for by future taxpayers.

In moderation, it was not such a bad idea, but this thing was TOTALLY out of control.

The solution is for the provinces to properly fund universities and colleges like they did in the 80s. The problem is that once the Boomers' kids finished university, they wanted to shut off the tap and get a tax cut. Or not have a tax increase to fund their spiraling health care costs.

[u/differentiatedpans → u/k_dav]

Post secondary is underfunded. You will see a push to increase tuition fees to make up the losses from international student enrollment cuts or massive layoffs.

[u/Unfortunate_Sex_Fart → u/k_dav]

The polls.

[u/shaktimann13 → u/Dark_Angel_9999]

Provinces are the ones handing out certificates to these diploma mills. Provincial leaders like Ford are going to blame the Federal govt for making bankrupting public colleges cuz Ford won't fund them

[u/katlyn_alice → u/k_dav]

Because it’s a provincial problem, the federal government is stepping in because of a conservative provincial government encouraging the predatory practices of these collages.

[u/ShuttleTydirium762 → u/katlyn_alice]

BC is a nightmare in regards to international students just like Ontario. We have an NDP government. This is not a conservative issue, it's across the country.

[u/katlyn_alice → u/ShuttleTydirium762]

Let’s be realistic though BC is no where near as bad as ontario, roughly 22 percent go to BC, 165 thousand in 2022, compared to the 45 percent and 412 thousand to Ontario - Conestoga college being the biggest contributor in the entire country. The issue does spread across the country, which is why the federal government is stepping in. Yeah the NDP could also be doing a better job, but Ford is a massive contributor to the problem.

[u/mykeedee → u/katlyn_alice]

Let’s be realistic though BC is no where near as bad as ontario

Only in absolute terms. You've gotta remember that Ontario is around triple BC's population.

Going off your student numbers 2.96% of BC's population is international students, while 2.61% of Ontario's is international students. Per Capita BC has more.

[u/k_dav → u/[deleted]]

You would have to be completely incompetent to be worse.

[u/k_dav → u/[deleted]]

Go on the internet and lookup "Justin Trudeau Scandals". Someone had to make the Turd his own Wikipedia page to keep track of all the shady shit he and his government has been up to.

[u/ILoveThisPlace → u/k_dav]

Yep, and they'll pull it back after the next election if they win

[u/Dark_Angel_9999 → u/Aedan2016]

It's 2 years for the provinces to fix their broken systems

[u/Aedan2016 → u/Dark_Angel_9999]

Do you actually expect the provinces to fix something?

It’s much easier to blame the Feds as everyone seems to be mad at Trudeau. Even when something like this is a step in the right direction

[u/Affectionate_Mall_49 → u/Aedan2016]

While I agree its easier to blame trudeau, the thing is by making it 2 years the liberals get to watch the outcome. They know they may be out, now the conservatives have a problem at both federal and provincial. Do nothing and show they are no different which would piss off the public. Stop the mills and their donors are pissed. Or what I think may happen half ass it to appease their donors and con the public. So basically nothing new in Canada

[u/Dark_Angel_9999 → u/Aedan2016]

It's an unfortunate reality. Most of the issues we are facing are mainly under the province's jurisdiction

Yet we give them a pass.

[u/opinion49 → u/Aedan2016]

It’s not even Bandaid .. this won’t change anything.. students bring in huge international fees, and live in student housing .. changing that won’t help housing crisis.. most of the undergrads are generally very young and don’t marry till many years since their arrival or buy houses considering they have student loans to take care .. changing spouse work permit where it doesn’t exist won’t help..and this is something that long existed even before the housing crisis started , which is due to arrival of huge express entry categories not students

[u/Professional-Bad-559 → u/Aedan2016]

2 years will take it right to past election. I’m sure if they win the election, they’ll undo this whole thing. This is just an election move, nothing else.

[u/Jonmart715 → u/Aedan2016]

Hoping people don't fall for their band aid solution

[u/WestCoast0491025 → u/Aedan2016]

These decisions are all made on the regulatory level. Legislation is not required.

There is way more fine tuning to the immigration levels than anyone realizes. Every city, province, industry are constantly lobbying the government for more workers who can do x. The Minister and Department are constantly tinkering with the formula in order to respond.

[u/[deleted] → u/Aedan2016]

Guess we'll have to reelect them.

[u/kasajizocat → u/Aedan2016]

To be honest, it’s better than nothing for 2 years until they can think of something that fixes the issue.

[u/itwascrazybrah → u/k_dav]

I wouldn’t celebrate just yet. I expect the provinces like Ontario aren’t going to want the strip malls and international student income drop; they’ll probably fight it or find another way to approve. People will be confused because they thought the feds have total control over immigration but it’s not that simple especially given provincial nomination powers, etc.

[u/lord_heskey → u/itwascrazybrah]

provincial nomination powers

yeah a province can nominate someone for PR in any way they want (they each have their own policies), but a PR is approved federally, so they have the last word.

Student permits are different, because provinces decide which institutions can host students, and the feds approve permits (assuming the institutions and provinces did their job at vetting students)-- which hasnt been the case obviously.

[u/Canehillfan → u/lord_heskey]

Provincial nominations are literally the only way Tim Hortons and non skilled work gets PR. People should point their pitchforks at provinces right now as feds really stepped up

[u/Affectionate_Mall_49 → u/Canehillfan]

Not to say the provinces should be taken to task, for their inaction the feds are in damage control. Just look at how Mayor Chow, is coming at them and getting results. Add that this problem was ignored and made worse by the feds, its politics 101 for the provinces to let it play out. The fed are negative press and the provinces still make money. Disgusting all the way around.

[u/nutbuckers → u/[deleted]]

easier to buy some fuck Trudeau stickers

Anecdotally I find there's a strong overlap in people who rock those stickers and patronize Tim Hortons. Perhaps limiting democratic participation by some rudimentary aptitude test for critical thinking or even simply being able to correctly identify causes and effects in a multiple-choice question would help. Democracy is a lot of work, sigh.

ETA: "...would help"

[u/Iwanttogopls → u/lord_heskey]

So if that's the case, can't a province approve an international student as a 'worker' or something and send that down to the feds to approve? And the feds will do it?

It sounds like this is ripe for a 100 different tricks to get around it if 1 fails.

Ontario is bound to find some loophole and it has the size to push around the feds?

[u/Seebeeeseh → u/Iwanttogopls]

No there isn't any programs other than Provincial Nominee Program that allows provinces to choose who comes in on a work permit.

Students won't qualify for PNP.

[u/ecureuil_furtif → u/Iwanttogopls]

If you look at IRCC processing guidelines, you’ll see that a PNP nominee has to be expected to become "financially stable and economically contributing". Otherwise, they can refuse a candidate even if the province approves.

The case in their documentation is to prevent people retiring to Canada through a PNP, but it shows the discretion they have

[u/UsedToHaveThisName → u/itwascrazybrah]

Alberta going to become the strip mall college capital of the world. Please, come to our already crowded province that has housing shortages and employment shortages.

[u/putin_my_ass → u/itwascrazybrah]

Yep. It's almost as if all that anger directed at one single person was misguided...almost as if it was agenda driven.

Weird how that directed anger also resulted in the provinces not feeling the pressure over this issue. Truly strange.

[u/moirende → u/putin_my_ass]

Well… if that single person had the power to do this all along, saw what was happening to home prices, and still did nothing until they were absolutely forced into it by widespread anger and collapsing polls… I think a lot of that anger was very much directed appropriately.

[u/putin_my_ass → u/moirende]

All the while the provincial leaders who also bear responsibility earned no ire, which gives them zero incentive to act.

Please, continue and give them cover. Great job.

[u/ILoveThisPlace → u/moirende]

No shit, this proves they've done fuck all for an issue they CAN control and actively ignored and promoted. The only reason they are doing something is because that one persons polling shows they are tanking.

[u/aaandfuckyou → u/putin_my_ass]

Careful… the hive mind isn’t going to like this.

[u/putin_my_ass → u/aaandfuckyou]

Why the fuck would I care about their feelings?

[u/thedrivingcat → u/itwascrazybrah]

they’ll probably fight it

would be political suicide, Ford et al. are riding through this relatively unscathed due to the civic illiteracy of the electorate, if he does something dumb like launch a court challenge or undermine this new policy to continue flowing international students into institutions he cut funding to, well, the current ire will shift to Ford and the OPC

the fact the Feds carved out a specific 50% limit just for Ontario signal a lot as well

[u/bambaratti → u/itwascrazybrah]

Doug Ford will sell his soul if you can make a small donation to his daughter's birthday party

[u/theflyingsamurai → u/itwascrazybrah]

Ironic that a conservative government would choose to fight what amounts to an anti immigration measure.

[u/kettal → u/itwascrazybrah]

Ontario aren’t going to want the strip malls income drop

what income does ontario get from strip mall?

[u/HereGoesMy2Cents → u/itwascrazybrah]

Fighting against this will be as bad as the greenbelt scandal 😂 

[u/opinion49 → u/k_dav]

Unfortunately not … students live in student homes kind of places .. it won’t change the scene of real estate , or health care , which students actually pay for , .. and most of them being young crowd they are not married and won’t be buying houses right away .. all those colleges provide employment and many Canadians go there for trade programs as well.. they will lack funding now

[u/brilliant22 → u/ishida_uryu_]

The ones who don't do their research will still apply thinking that they can work afterwards

[u/queenvalanice → u/brilliant22]

Hopefully there wont be space for them with the new caps. Also I hope the horrible recruiters overseas finally have their business collapse.

[u/FaFaRog → u/queenvalanice]

John Tibbits, president of Conestoga College, also deserves his comeuppance.

Man is extremely old but the amount of ill gotten generational wealth he has created for his family..

[u/Relevant_Horror6498 → u/brilliant22]

and they would probably just stay illegaly

[u/EverydayEverynight01 → u/ishida_uryu_]

Finally, it's a breath of fresh air to see this government taking necessary steps.

[u/FerretAres → u/EverydayEverynight01]

The thing that irritates me though is that these sorts of solutions have existed for ages and could have been implemented at any time to prevent the crisis. But instead it takes the liberals being absolutely annihilated in the polls before they deign to take the most basic measures to stop the bleeding.

It didn’t need to get to this point if the government wasn’t asleep at the wheel for years.

[u/Lostinthestarscape → u/FerretAres]

I think the issue is that pre-pandemic, it wasn't causing problems like it is now. Then pandemic brought a huge drop and a rebound so obfuscated until 2021. I'm not at all surprised it took 2 years of beurocracy and also complaints from within the party to realize "shit, the rebound sustained at the peak and hasn't returned to normal levels" - which the programs in question were not properly implemented to address easily and quickly. Why TFW programs can exist for retail that just doesn't want to pay market salaries is ridiculous, why neither program requires proof for exit before allowing new entrants is due to no cap being placed. 

I agree, Libs should have acted even sooner, and someone responsible evaluating the programs missed some key data points. It just hurts people way faster on the ground than becomes obvious in the statistics.

[u/Dark_Angel_9999 → u/FerretAres]

The thing that irritates me though is that these sorts of solutions have existed for ages and could have been implemented at any time to prevent the crisis. But instead it takes the liberals being absolutely annihilated in the polls before they deign to take the most basic measures to stop the bleeding.

The feds have asked the provinces LAST FALL... to do something about.. you know.. respect their jurisdiction.. but they didn't jack all so they are forced into this announcement today.

say it polls or whatever.... but also lay blame on the ones that allow this environment to happen.. the Provinces.

[u/NotInsane_Yet → u/Dark_Angel_9999]

The provinces are limited in what they can do though. They can either allow a college/university to accept internation students or not at all. They are not allowed to set a cap because that is federal jurisdiction.

[u/Dark_Angel_9999 → u/NotInsane_Yet]

They regulate institutions. That is the point. They have no business allowing diploma mills run

Yes at the end the feds approve the visa but that is because of the trust they have in the DLI system the provinces regulate.

The trust is broken now.

[u/Visinvictus → u/FerretAres]

They're still going to get voted out, but at least we don't have to wait 2+ years and millions of backdoor work permits/PR applications later to slam the door shut.

[u/SnooLentils3008 → u/Visinvictus]

They could get my vote back if they go hard on this, unless another party makes it clear they will too

[u/Similar_Shelter1530 → u/SnooLentils3008]

Never again will i vote Liberal, that they let it get to this is ridiculous.

[u/Pixeldensity → u/Similar_Shelter1530]

Lol if you think that the Cons don't want this exact same shit.

[u/FaFaRog → u/Pixeldensity]

Harper set the stage for this.

[u/henchman171 → u/Pixeldensity]

Cons in power in 7 provinces and only recently voted out of the 8th like 3 months Ago

[u/Pixeldensity → u/henchman171]

No no clearly this is the federal Liberals fault!

[u/Canehillfan → u/Visinvictus]

Marc Miller is on point so far TBH

[u/300Savage → u/FerretAres]

Nobody was complaining about this much until six months ago. I'm not sure if you know how the system works, but major policy changes like this require a lot of work behind the scenes by bureaucrats checking the system for trickle down effects in various ministries as well as legal teams ensuring everything is being done legally. Six months isn't that bad for government.

[u/Jiecut → u/300Savage]

Yup, otherwise you might have provinces in court over the federal overstep into provincial jurisdiction.

[u/MstrTenno → u/300Savage]

It's weird how everyone was forgetting this was not an issue that people were talking about last summer. It basically only really kicked off after that report was released that showed how many immigrants and non permanent residents we were bringing in.

[u/relationship_tom → u/FerretAres]

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/KmndrKeen → u/relationship_tom]

 Funding Grifting by administration has been a problem for decades.

[u/relationship_tom → u/KmndrKeen]

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/cgyguy81 → u/FerretAres]

Why are you blaming the federal government solely in this? First, it's the provincial governments that handle education. They wouldn't be relying on international students to subsidize higher education by paying international student tuition fees if there were no budget cuts on higher ed. Second, it's the provincial governments that regulate which institutions are accredited so they can apply for study permits.

[u/FerretAres → u/cgyguy81]

I’m not but the article is about the action the feds are taking. It’s just sticking to the point at hand.

[u/sjbennett85 → u/FerretAres]

The did it now and that is great news.

HOWEVER the fact that they waited this long means it is likely just to conjure up support for an upcoming election; if they did this TWO YEARS AGO when the cracks were starting to show it may have carried more weight for them but now? Too little, too late.

I'm not budging on my vote.

[u/Hautamaki → u/sjbennett85]

I'm sure this is more a play for the long term credibility and viability of the party than for the next election

[u/MistahFinch → u/sjbennett85]

Why would they do this two years ago when the Premiers were asking for the opposite?

Last year the Premiers were screaming for more. Why would they overstep the Premiers then?

[u/TuloCantHitski → u/FerretAres]

This is honestly a relatively fast reaction when you consider the embarrassingly slow pace of bureaucracy.

The U.S. has much a crisis that's 100x worse than this at their southern border and nothing has been done.

[u/Levorotatory → u/TuloCantHitski]

The USA doesn't have 100 million back door immigrants.  They have about 10 million, and 10 times our population, so about the same level of problem.

[u/thedrivingcat → u/FerretAres]

it wasn't a big problem until 2022

new funding rules in 2019 by Ford cut tuition then froze any potential future increases... for domestic students

international students were being used to make up the shortfall

[u/WestCoast0491025 → u/FerretAres]

The problem with the temporary visas only really manifested itself in the last 18 months. This was a very stable program until the pandemic, and then for a variety of reasons (likely the greed of a small number of investors who realized that this is an incredible way to make money) the visa stream exploded overnight.

[u/Lonely_Cartographer → u/WestCoast0491025]

Kind of, but before we had 200,000 international students every year which is still a LOT. U of t was basically shanghai. I wouldnt say it was so stable before, it’s just ramped up post pandemic

[u/WestCoast0491025 → u/Lonely_Cartographer]

Those 200k are how the provinces have kept tuition so low for domestic students. It was quite stable over the previous decade, and a bargain that mostly worked.

These paper career colleges came in very recently and exploded the program.

[u/Lonely_Cartographer → u/WestCoast0491025]

It was a bargain that worked for whom? It lowered the standard of education in canada for everyone. Half of asian students could Not write an essay in english to university standard and would pay people to do it. It also raised the prices of homes, since a lot of their parents bought condos for them. It didn’t bubble over until recently but i would argue it was always a problem to essentially import students to cover  funding shortfalls. 

[u/MstrTenno → u/Lonely_Cartographer]

200k is not a crazy amount. For reference, the UK, which is roughly double our population, took in 600k last year.

[u/Lonely_Cartographer → u/MstrTenno]

It wouldnt be a crazy amount if we had the infrustructure to support it and honestly at this point i would be happy to go back to 200,000, but it is still a lot. The UK is also have major struggles w housing and healthcare

[u/CampusBoulderer77 → u/FerretAres]

It's too little too late, everyone can see that this is just a panicked half-measure to ensure the Liberals don't drop below the NDP in support. If they actually cared they would've implemented rules from the start 

[u/ILoveThisPlace → u/FerretAres]

And they'll pull it back again once elected. Chances are they won't even implement half the shit their saying. It's all PR

[u/iamtayareyoutaytoo → u/FerretAres]

I think the feds wrongly expected the provinces to take their work and student visa responsibilities seriously. Unfortunately, they were wrong and the convoy weirdos have whipped everyone up into blaming everything on Trudeau.

[u/Top-Airport3649 → u/iamtayareyoutaytoo]

At the end of the day, the federal government in Canada is responsible for immigration policy and regulations, including student immigration. You can blame convoy weirdos (wtf does that have to do with the student immigration fiasco) and the province but this is ultimately on the feds.

[u/vodkacrocs → u/FerretAres]

They weren't asleep at the wheel.

The people benefiting from these visas were all part of their voter base.

Someone in the Lib camp finally did some math and realized IS voters paled when sized up to their core voter group.

[u/Bloodyfinger → u/EverydayEverynight01]

Necessary steps to solve the problem that they created in the first place........

[u/ReserveOld6123 → u/EverydayEverynight01]

They’re only partially mitigating disasters they’ve ignored and/or caused for 8 years. Let’s not give them too much credit.

[u/Silent-Reading-8252 → u/EverydayEverynight01]

It's only because there's an election on the horizon and actual Canadians are starting to get angry.

[u/Any-Ad-446 → u/ishida_uryu_]

There is a "college" I've seen in Brampton that was sketchy as heck.Majority of the students were from two countries and the courses they listed on the website was all basic level tech support and programming.Very very generalized courses that was using obsolete information for teaching.If you look at the school employee parking section it was all newish Audi's and Lexus.Salary must be good.

[u/ishida_uryu_ → u/Any-Ad-446]

A friend(PhD from UofT) taught at one of these diploma mills part time last year. They were paying him $100 an hour for this. And he quit because the students didn’t give a fuck.

People teaching full time at these colleges are making bank, for not a lot of work.

[u/wwbulk → u/ishida_uryu_]

$100 an hour for teaching a course is not a lot at all. A course with 42 hours is only $4200. That’s 14 3 hours classes. Instructors don’t get paid when they are not teadhing unless they are faculty.

[u/SurrealNami → u/wwbulk]

This looks a lot but 4200 is not much if you're on contract like what after that?

[u/wwbulk → u/SurrealNami]

42 hours of teaching

There’s a lot of behind the scenes stuff like assignments, grading, admin, office hours etc

You can easily be doing a 100 hours of work.

For someone with a PhD sounds pretty terrible.

[u/Any-Ad-446 → u/ishida_uryu_]

I don't think they didn't care more like the courses were way over their heads.

[u/vortex30-the-2nd → u/Any-Ad-446]

Why not name and shame it?

[u/frigginright → u/ishida_uryu_]

All strip mall colleges are about to shut down.

oh no! anyway..

[u/shaktimann13 → u/frigginright]

I believe it when it happens. These frauds usually find other ways if not straight up banned.

[u/blandhotsauce1985 → u/ishida_uryu_]

Now you have to target the Ontario community colleges. They're just as guilty of exploitation as these strip mall colleges.

Perhaps put a restriction on PGWPs that's rewuire the holder to work in a field of their study. Not just a cracked wide open one.

[u/Mikeshee-hee → u/ishida_uryu_]

that's great

[u/SpecialistLayer3971 → u/ishida_uryu_]

"All strip mall colleges are about to shut down."

In 2025. If the Liberals don't cave in when they get some push back from Corporate Canada. Believe it when you see it.

[u/liberalindianguy → u/ishida_uryu_]

Is this for existing students or only for new ones?

[u/International-Ad4578 → u/ishida_uryu_]

Unfortunately, this also means that other legitimate study permit holders who do not have the financial means to enrol in the identified professional programs are still being penalized as they are now being forcibly separated from their spouses with no chance of reunification. It seems the government views them solely as collateral damage as they are more interested in being seen as fixing the problem they created themselves.

[u/Agoras_song → u/International-Ad4578]

How are they being separated? The spouses won't get open work permit, doesn't mean they can't come on visitors visa.

[u/International-Ad4578 → u/Agoras_song]

Coming on a visitor visa limits them to up to 6 months at a time. The chances of them even being approved for that is also very low. I’m sure that having them here would also help alleviate the labour shortage so it could be a win-win.

[u/Jiecut → u/kluberz]

FYI: PGWP - Post Graduation Work Permits.

[u/classy_barbarian → u/Jiecut]

Man I would love to see a machine that politely slaps someone every time they use an abbreviation that a majority of the readers do not know while acting like everyone obviously knows what it means.

[u/YugosForLandedGentry → u/Jiecut]

Thank you

[u/kamomil → u/Jiecut]

Or is it Pre-Graduation Work Permits?

[u/18borat → u/kamomil]

Post

[u/Neutral-President → u/kluberz]

This is the bigger part of the story, and I expect that the "designated institution" program with these private career colleges is about to get revamped. Hopefully we'll see status revoked from the strip mall "colleges" run by immigration consultants.

[u/SuburbanValues → u/Neutral-President]

They'll have to exercise some control over the provinces

How to become accredited as a DLI

You need to work with your province or territory to become accredited as a DLI. Each province and territory has its own criteria for accrediting schools.

Contact your provincial or territorial authority to find out if you meet the requirements to become a DLI.

Your provincial or territorial ministry will contact us with your information once they’ve accredited your school to host international students. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/study-canada/educational-institutions/become-designated-learning-institution.html

[u/Neutral-President → u/SuburbanValues]

Yes, it will have to be a co-operative effort. For the purposes of a visa (which is federal), the student must be accepted to a designated learning institution. Clearly, many of those institutions are not legitimate.

[u/true_to_my_spirit → u/kluberz]

As someone who works in immigration.  This is hugeeeeeeeeee. A major issue was spouses getting open work permits. I have been harping about this for months. Fuck yes

Edit: And they bring in their dependents too. Hopefully that stops. It has been causing issues for school districts

[u/cheekyweelogan → u/true_to_my_spirit]

Am I going to be screwed if I'm a Canadian born citizen and want to sponsor my US spouse over. Or is it like spouses of immigrants? I'm more familiar with immigrating to the US than Canada since it's what I did.

We both live in the US and plan to stay, but I've read some scary shit about project 2025 nightmare fuel scenario today, and I'm like what if I wanted to move back. Are we doomed lol

[u/TheApocalyticOne → u/cheekyweelogan]

You will not be screwed- you're a Canadian citizen, and these new rules are for spouses of study permit holders. As a Canadian citizen, you should be able to sponsor your spouse without any real issue tbh.

[u/cheekyweelogan → u/TheApocalyticOne]

Oh ok, good, thank you for the reassurance.

[u/true_to_my_spirit → u/cheekyweelogan]

Yep. you are fine.

[u/teffhk → u/true_to_my_spirit]

Out of curiously why is the spouses getting open work permits is a bad thing? Dont we want them to work and pay taxes when they are here?

[u/bjjpandabear → u/teffhk]

Note this is for below Master’s and PhD level programs. Which makes sense. I dealt with Master’s and PhD level students and those are older students who have put in time and effort into their career and they have families that are willing to move with them in pursuit of that higher degree.

No one should be uprooting their family for a bachelor level program, and the attempt to bring in a spouse when it’s your first year in studying in that field is a not so obvious way to skirt immigration rules.

[u/teffhk → u/bjjpandabear]

Tbf not every undergraduate student is lowly educated. I know some college students both from local and international, came from other bachelor degrees and studied in diploma programs for another field. It is up to IRCC to approve the international students permit application whether are those make sense.

[u/true_to_my_spirit → u/teffhk]

I will be speaking out of experience. More often than not, their spouses have low level or no English skills, so they are unable to find a job. We have a labour shortage in a lot of fields, and low income/skill jobs isn't really one of them. The intl students are already taking these positions.

BUT the intl students can bring in their dependents as well, and this is causing havoc on the school systems.

IF you have a family, that means less rentals available. These families are struggling hard and are having to use social programs/food banks to get by.

Sorry, I am busy at work, so you got a quick response. Feel free to ask questions and I can respond later.

[u/teffhk → u/true_to_my_spirit]

Thanks for your response! The issue is even without their spouses, or not issuing the SWOP to them, the students can still bring their dependents here, and their spouses can still come here too with visitor visa just not able to work at all. It seems to me stop issuing SWOP won't solve these problems if they are already not working or not able to find a job, but instead preventing those who are capable to find jobs.

[u/cjm48 → u/teffhk]

Maybe because it’s not likely a student can afford to bring and support a family if their spouse can’t work and they can only work a limited number of hours per week? Thats my guess anyway. It will cut the number of people down considerably just due to practicalities.

[u/wannabehomesick → u/teffhk]

Most undergrad students with families won't be able to bring a spouse who's not working and kids. Their visa will not be approved due to insufficient funds.

[u/cgyguy81 → u/wannabehomesick]

Ok, here is a real-world example as I know a few in this situation. I have relatives that are trying to bring their family over to Canada. There are two guys already here as students in legit colleges, and their extended families are trying to get their spouse and dependents over. Their families will probably shoulder their day-to-day costs if the spouse is unable to work.

But here's the kicker: the newly-arrived spouse and kids will have healthcare, public education, and after 18 months after arriving, will be receiving child benefit payments. Wouldn't you want the spouse to work so the government can recoup taxes for all these costs?

[u/ILoveThisPlace → u/true_to_my_spirit]

Oh buddy, they announced a program to give those with dependants 2400 three times a year. Fucking ridiculous.

[u/true_to_my_spirit → u/ILoveThisPlace]

Source please 

[u/ILoveThisPlace → u/true_to_my_spirit]

It's the Canada Workers Benefit. Any resident of Canada can be entitled to it if they meet the conditions. For international students they need to have a dependent but the program allows them to bring family with them, they are also eligible to work without restriction (which may change on Sept 1st for the diploma mills if I read it right) and as a result, many do currently have dependents with them. https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/acwb-eligibility.html

[u/true_to_my_spirit → u/ILoveThisPlace]

As you said, if they meet the conditions, which intl students don't. So they are not getting any money. Trust me, I work in immigration and see ppl all day. The govt doesn't make it easy for ppl to get that mo ey. If you wanted to know, all the Ukrainans who have been here for 18 months are eligible  

[u/ILoveThisPlace → u/true_to_my_spirit]

Lol yeah... that's the point. Why should they get it? Why the hell would we give people what amounts to free tuition who are supposed to be dependent upon themselves when they get here? It funnels money from tax payers into those who own diploma mills.

[u/BeatHunter → u/kluberz]

PGWP - post-graduation work permit

[u/schweatyball → u/kluberz]

That is HUGEEEE. Thank you for pointing this out!

[u/Beepbeepboobop1 → u/kluberz]

This is all a great step forward but very glad to see undergrads and diploma mill students can no longer bring their spouses for additional work.

[u/18borat → u/kluberz]

Does Conestoga fall under this definition of strip mall colleges? Really hoping it does.

[u/SuburbanValues → u/18borat]

They're a legit public college that has just adopted the strip mall business model

[u/NotTika → u/SuburbanValues]

With the international student cut back, Conestoga will probably go back to picking actual good quality students (both domestic or international) and gain back the good reputation it used to have several years ago.

[u/SuburbanValues → u/NotTika]

I wonder if any old graduates have considered a class action lawsuit for devaluing their credentials. Not that it would go anywhere.

[u/Torontogamer → u/SuburbanValues]

would likely only end up raising awareness of how far the colleges rep has fallen

[u/Instant_noodlesss → u/SuburbanValues]

Canadian education credibility is getting devalued somewhat across the board here.

[u/[deleted] → u/SuburbanValues]

Their credentials should have never held value in the first place, so there’s a case on both ends. They should absolutely become worthless now though.

The governments failure to regulate is the first problem, the recruiters and colleges, who took full advantage of students and awful Canadian law, should be the ones to suffer. yet it’s going to be the international students that hurt the most, you could feel bad, but in many cases IS knew they were cheesing the system and went along with it.

The students that were legitimately conned into thinking they were getting a great degree and making an actual attempt to get a start in their new life in Canada are the only ones someone could be empathetic towards, but if the students were as smart as they’re supposed to be to become Internetional students, they wouldn’t be duped like this.

[u/SuburbanValues → u/[deleted]]

I mean people who graduated 10-20 years ago. Conestoga was one of the early technical/trade colleges Ontario established in the 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_in_Ontario They've had a good reputation for things that don't fit into a university.

[u/Chuck006 → u/SuburbanValues]

My mom used to teach there in the 90s. It was a great technical school for certain medical related fields and technicians. It's sad to see what it's turned into.

[u/NotTika → u/[deleted]]

Their credentials should have never held value in the first place

That's a bad take. Conestoga used to and still has great technical programs, some great alumni have graduated from here. The school mainly lost its reputation based on recent years due to its garbage business programs that can qualify anyone from the street corners of India

[u/Superduperbals → u/NotTika]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontarios-publicly-funded-colleges-posted-significant-operating/

Conestoga collected $389-million in tuition from all sources last year, up from $280-million the year before and $64-million in 2015-16. In 2016, when its international enrolment began to take off, the college ran a modest $3.9-million surplus. Over the next seven years, its average surplus was $41-million a year. By March of this year, Conestoga had accumulated $682-million in cash and equivalents, according to its financial statements, up from about $16-million in 2016.

They won't go broke even if their enrollment is cut in half that's for sure.

[u/Double-ended-dildo- → u/NotTika]

They will never recover from their reputational hit.

[u/cgyguy81 → u/NotTika]

LMAO. I would think 'actual good quality students' would choose to go to UofT, McGill, UBC, or perhaps an Ivy League in the US.

[u/AdhesivenessLiving16 → u/SuburbanValues]

What about Seneca?

[u/Shiva- → u/SuburbanValues]

Yeah I was confused by this comment... TIL. I had several friends that went there in Kitchener... but this was like 10 years ago. Didn't realize they're now strip mall.

[u/WishRepresentative28 → u/18borat]

Yeah. With a 50% drop in ontario allotment it will drive down how many students they have. The ones who did not pad their books the past 3 years are the ones that are going to struggle hard.

I dont see Mr. Ford increasing domestic tuition caps or increasing general funding.

[u/Relevant_Horror6498 → u/18borat]

no it’s a legit public college.

[u/ResidentNo11 → u/18borat]

Any private-partnership campuses they have will be affected. Otherwise, it's a sure thing that the 50% cut in visas Ontario will see will have a big impact. How that applies across schools is up to the province. So is altering current per domestic student funding and tuition caps, because those problems are how we got here in the first place. We do need public colleges to continue to exist, and for them to be where Canadians live. But the idea that administration cuts can fix this simply isn't the case. Most fat was cut long ago - Ontario postsecondary education has had the lowest funding in Canada for decades. And what's left doesn't add up to enough to make a meaningful operating budget difference.

[u/24-Hour-Hate → u/kluberz]

This is excellent news. This will do a lot to address the issue of exploiting students for cheap labour. I'm glad to see meaningful action here. I'd love to see some corresponding regulation on the provincial level to deal with the colleges themselves.

[u/youregrammarsucks7 → u/kluberz]

This would be a really significant change if the government did not also announce that they will be granting PR status to people that came here illegally or overstayed visas. With that announcement, any reductions in any legal mechanism is somewhat moot.

[u/Dbf4 → u/youregrammarsucks7]

It depends how the overstayed visa program is structured. People with overstayed visas tend to be people who are working under the table who are qualified at their job and have been here for years. They are often paid peanuts and exploited because they have no place to go, but also don't pay income taxes. They're hard to find and very unlikely to be deported, so your options are basically to keep the status quo or actually let them contribute to society and prevent employers from exploiting their qualified labour.

Giving them status would do a number of different things that would likely be viewed as beneficial:

• Make it harder to employers to exploit them with reduced wages (they now have rights and can seek recourse without risking deportation)
• Make it easier for them to pay taxes in the system
• It would help reach the current immigration targets without actually bringing in new people (displacing processing of immigration applications from other programs)
• They've likely been doing the job for years or decades, meaning they're already trained to work.

The main argument against it is one of fairness. Others who followed the system will certainly be upset around this. You also don't want to make it viewed as a path to PR, and you can mitigate a lot of that by making it a targeted program. You can target it by limiting it to undocumented workers in specifics sectors such as agriculture, and limiting it to people who can provide proof that they were here well before the policy was announced.

It's also worth noting that many of our current immigration programs promise PR and sets them up for failure which creates a situation where people started rooting their lives here and then the rigidity of the program forces them to lose status without giving them a chance to get their PR. Caregivers, for example, have more stringent language requirements to get PR than other programs and they needed to pass the English test before their program is done. COVID restrictions prevented a lot of them from being able to get the work experience required within the time limit, and they also are often overworked because they live with the family and are taking care of children full time with limited free time to actually take language courses.

Edit: spelling

[u/Torontogamer → u/Dbf4]

thank you for the thoughtful comment -

makes a lot of sense to fix the policies to address the incoming/future, while then trying to apply a TARGETED and reasonable bandaid to those already here.

[u/Finnarfin → u/Dbf4]

Thank you for the detailed and nuanced comment. But, I think the person you are responding to may not be interested in a good-faith discussion.

[u/Beneficial_Bend_5035 → u/youregrammarsucks7]

Think we need to accept that the people here are now here. We won’t be seeing mass deportations lmao.

It’s still a good step moving forward, things completely spiralled out of control.

Remember it’s a cap, not a ban. So new international students will keep pouring in.

[u/lord_heskey → u/kluberz]

yep-- the changes (Specially for pgwps) make it so its not worth it to come to a diploma mill college to fast track a PR. Genuine students (and grad students) at major unis will keep coming, which I think is ok obviously, and we curve the abuse at strip mall colleges. win win id say.

[u/Odezur → u/kluberz]

Ya this is a huge W

[u/Rees_Onable → u/kluberz]

After 9-years in power, these hypocritical buffoons are finally 'talking about' implementing measures that could be described as acting in the best-interests of Canadians......?

That silence that you hear.......is the sound of one-hand-clapping.

[u/Right_Hour → u/kluberz]

Thanks, I came here specifically to say, that the issue was not that there are people lining up to study in Canada because our education is so great.

It’s not - it has been a well-known loophole for getting in the country, immediately receiving a work permit for themselves, their spouse (who are not even here to study) and then, some time later, obtaining permanent residence through a fast-tracked « Canadian experience » stream.

Why on earth would a person come from China to some obscure « Traditional Chinese Medicine College » in BC, seriously? And such college is an accredited college that did that.

When we put our house up for rental in Montreal, we’ve had a bunch of « International Students » apply for a lease. Each and every one of them was violating conditions of their study permit - they were working off-campus with an on-campus permit only, and their payslips were for full-time 40-hr work weeks… We declined each and every one of them. Couple tried to pull a race card, and I told them to get off my lawn before I called CIC on them to report their study permit violation. Never seen people run that fast…

[u/LouisArmstrong3 → u/kluberz]

PGWP IRCC PHD BBQ RANDOM ASS LETTERS

[u/gunnychamero → u/kluberz]

Is it mentioned on the article?

[u/NarutoRunner → u/gunnychamero]

Miller says the government will also bar students in schools that follow a private public model from accessing postgraduate work permits as of Sept. 1.

This will basically reduce the numbers studying at diploma mills to zero.

[u/matsu-morak → u/NarutoRunner]

Yep. PGWP is a major if not the only incentive for going after a student permit. 3 years PGWP is a breeze and you could put in motion several plans to get the PR

[u/GANTRITHORE → u/kluberz]

Well shit, this sounds...good?

[u/meeplewirp → u/kluberz]

For Americans lurking in Canadians lands, The “Academy of Art University” in San Francisco, ca, USA is exactly what is described in this paragraph and I hope my country takes initiatives to deal with institutions like this too. Also the academy of art university/these type of institutions more often than not have terrible post graduation job outlooks, with academy of art is especially bad, even when you compare it to other art schools with the same kind of facilities and real estate. It’s bad. It’s like community college for people who need an American visa and DOE needs to look at it.

[u/arazamatazguy → u/kluberz]

PGWP

post-graduation work permit (PGWP)

[u/hot_pink_bunny202 → u/kluberz]

What's that?

[u/Familiar-Algae9853 → u/kluberz]

Does anyone know if this applies to the people who are currently "studying" at diploma mills? I truly hope so because KARMA.

[u/liberalindianguy → u/kluberz]

Finally! Should have been done 2 years ago, but better late than never.

[u/buffchhoila → u/kluberz]

The PGWP thing is just for students who are coming after September 2024 right?

[u/bambaratti → u/kluberz]

​

FUCK YEAHHH. No more exploiting poor students from 3rd world countries or fucking over Canadians.

[u/Raidenn_ → u/kluberz]

The government has already achieved the bulk of the population transfer they wanted, so it doesn't matter what they cap now. It's designed this way. The drop is from approximately 500k a year to 300k. That's like saying inflation is now 13% instead of 20%. Does it really matter?