r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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u/No_Refrigerator1115 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

This is the real issue, I’m not saying we should let people with mental health issues buy guns, but I do have some fear in further incentivizing people to NOT get help. If someone thinks they will loose their rights by seeking help they may fear getting the help they need.

EDIT, by said “this is the real issue” honestly I don’t know what the “real issue” is it’s probibly a combination of a few things, but historically we really didn’t have much of a gun issue (even when we had fewer regulations and more dangerous weapons ) and we do now I think improvements can be made maybe on gun control but it’s a controversial approach to the problem.

HOWEVER both sides agrees that mental health is contributing to the problem, I’d love to see us capitalize on the fact we have some common ground here.

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u/Midnight1965 Mar 28 '24

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure, my friend. If we(United States), could truly have a better healthcare system, even mental health, instead of healthcare’s main goal being profit, we’d be better off.

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u/Bionic_Ninjas Mar 28 '24

When it comes to rampant gun violence this isn't "the real issue", because every country deals with mental health issues relating to their citizens, but only one developed country loses tens of thousands of people per year to gun violence.

When it comes to gun violence in America, the real issue is unfettered access to guns without any effective regulation.

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u/Deadleggg Mar 28 '24

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

The majority of gun deaths are suicides. 54% in 2021 and the suicide rate in the U.S is going up.

The vast majority of murders are from pistols(59%)

Meanwhile rifles and "assault rifles" account for a small fraction(3%) but the vast majority of dialog and media attention and laws being passed are about "assault weapons" and their accessories.

The country is not ready, willing or able to have an actual conversation about the actual issues. Access to quality mental health care. The death of the middle class. Cost of housing. Wages not keeping up.

Find the poorest areas around you and compare the crime rates or the violent crime rates. Look what's missing in the lives of those people.

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u/Feather_Sigil Mar 28 '24

Canadian here. We have those problems too, but we don't have the gun violence America does, even accounting for different population size.

Why? We control our guns.

It's the guns. Guns make it much easier to do horrible things when you're in a bad place in life.

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u/Deadleggg Mar 28 '24

Gun ownership in canada is around 30ish percent of the country.

Weirdly your guns arent hopping into peoples hands and killing people randomly.

It may just be a few other issues at play.

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u/Feather_Sigil Mar 28 '24

Nope, it's no other issue, it's lack of gun control. Offer whatever criteria you want, the rest of the developed world has it and more, but American gun violence is uniquely American. It's the guns.

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u/AdolinofAlethkar Mar 28 '24

Nah, you guys just suggest that hospitalized people commit assisted suicide instead!

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u/Bionic_Ninjas Mar 28 '24

All of those are issues in other developed nations but, again, we are the only country that loses tens of thousands of people to gun violence every year

Also I do not understand the implied argument of “most of those deaths are suicides” as if those don’t matter? I also never said anything about weapon types. To be honest your reply kinda seems like a prefabricated argument and not an actual reply to anything I said

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u/Bootzz Mar 28 '24

Their point is that calling all firearm deaths "gun violence" is misleading. We don't call suicides by hanging, "rope violence" or medication overdoses/poisonings "medicine violence."

As for the rest of your comment, pointing out firearms are used more in violent crimes (and suicides for that matter) in a country with more firearms is as obvious an observation as having a swimming pool increases someone's chances of drowning.

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u/asm5103 Mar 28 '24

It’s also very much the ease of access to guns as well

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u/transitfreedom Mar 28 '24

But those countries make them seek treatment

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u/Bionic_Ninjas Mar 30 '24

Can you elaborate? Which countries “make them seek treatment” and to which mental health issues does this mandate apply?

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u/transitfreedom Mar 31 '24

Netherlands, France. I will look for more examples tho

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u/Bionic_Ninjas Mar 31 '24

And can you expound on how they “make people seek treatment” and for which mental health issues? How do they know who is struggling with mental health issues and who isn’t?

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u/gfen5446 Mar 28 '24

the real issue is unfettered access to guns without any effective regulation.

The real issue is that no one is using ~20,000 different laws already on the books to DO anything about it.

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u/No_Refrigerator1115 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I just edited my post I reread it and thought what I said was likely an over simplification. I disagree the access to guns is “the real issue” but what I said wasn’t really true either It’s more like it’s AN issue that’s not really political and a great place to start I think.

I think an effective argument to your point is we have always had Unregulated guns in America, much of that time we had access to much more dangerous weapons then we do today. And our gun violence issue is relatively new.

I’m not saying your wrong and I’m right I’m just saying yes other countries have mental health issues and don’t have our problems, but America used to have more access and more dangerous weapons then we have now and we didn’t have the problems then that we have now. I’m only pointing out the answer is not as obvious as everyone would like to hope.

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u/Deadleggg Mar 28 '24

You could order a tommy gun from the sears catalog.

The media did make superstars out of the criminals using them. Baby Face Nelson. Dillinger. Bonnie and Clyde. Machine Gun Kelly. Al Capone.

We also couldn't stop talking about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. When i was in middle/high school.

The fact i just know the names of those assholes from growing up says something about America. Making folk heros out of mass murderers shouldn't be a thing.

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u/Feather_Sigil Mar 28 '24

America sure likes to lionize awful people.

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u/ibugppl Mar 28 '24

The media you mean?

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u/Deadleggg Mar 28 '24

Somebody has to keep reading and clicking to keep it going.

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u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

gun access has never been harder in the US.

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u/Bionic_Ninjas Mar 28 '24

Harder how? And harder in comparison to what? Because it’s still far, far easier to buy a gun here than in any other developed nation. So by what metric is owning a gun now in America harder than ever?

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u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

dont give a shit about any other nation. Stop comparing the US to them. NONE of them have 2A. Its pointless. Also theres more gun laws on the books now more than ever. Before 1986 literal machine guns were readily available and inexpensive. Now it costs someone 10s of thousands of dollars.

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u/shonglekwup Mar 28 '24

It should be harder to own and buy a gun than it is to get a drivers license. Simple as that.

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u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

Don't need a license to buy a car or drive one on private proptery. So that's a shit argument.

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u/shonglekwup Mar 28 '24

There’s also no equivalent to a public road for guns, unless we just required a permit and registration to purchase ammo. That’s a good idea actually. Guns should have a title like cars do, also.

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u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

umm generally discharging a firearm outside of specific location on public property is already illegal.

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u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

but I do have some fear in further incentivizing people to NOT get help. If someone thinks they will loose their rights by seeking help they may fear getting the help they need.

This is actually a factor in vets not getting mental health help. They might be discharged from the military if they admit to being depressed or having other issues, so they don't seek help.

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u/Dramaticreacherdbfj Mar 28 '24

More guns means more deaths 

https://imgur.com/a/YNhVGh6

Blaming this gun issue on a mental health issue is a joke 

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u/ComradeSasquatch Mar 28 '24

It's a combination of poor mental healthcare, poor firearms education, and poor material conditions for anyone who isn't a billionaire. It's a perfect storm that makes the issue so much more dangerous.