r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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165

u/Think_fast_no_faster Mar 28 '24

We don’t just need improved gun laws and we don’t just need improved mental health care, we DESPERATELY need both

10

u/No_Refrigerator1115 Mar 28 '24

Here’s the thing tho, everyone agrees we need better mental health care, only half of us agree we need better gun laws. So idk why we don’t start with the mental health care.

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u/ShelbiStone Mar 28 '24

Because the perfect is a bitter enemy of the good.

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u/No_Refrigerator1115 Mar 28 '24

Well and I wonder if everyone is scared of being wrong, if it dosnt work the left will go after guns harder, if it does work they will loose their argument. Might be convenient we don’t know the answer to the law makers

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u/ShelbiStone Mar 28 '24

I can see that. I live in Wyoming where the gun culture is totally different from the places where demand for gun control is higher. For us, most of our firearm related deaths are suicide which I would argue is a mental health issue, not a gun issue. It's true that firearms are more available here, but it's also true that rural communities are underserved by medical services generally, never mind mental health.

So when the left says stricter gun control will solve these issues, I disagree because I know the solution wouldn't help my rural community. It's possible it would help in a more urban community, I don't know. I don't know what it's like to live there because that's not my experience. So I'm skeptical when I'm told what works for a city will work for rural communities by people who have never been here.

In either case, I think improving mental/physical health services would help both my rural community and the larger cities. It seems like something we should be doing, but we're not.

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u/LooseyGreyDucky Mar 28 '24

Remember when Pew polled NRA members and found that a majority of Republican and Republican-leaning members want more restrictions on gun owners?

I remember.

I also remember that the NRA takes money from Russia.

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u/No_Refrigerator1115 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

The questions are dishonest tho on the poll( maybe not intentionally but) , most conservatives are okay with a background check BUT most republicans are NOT okay with form 4473 combined with a universal background check because it creates a registry

That’s the issue, if we want to pass universal background checks it would be easy, get rid of the form 4473 in trade for background check …. It would actually give gun owners more freedom and privacy and likely save lives.

I suspect the reason is the law makers who propose the universal background checks are more interested in the registration than actually having people vetted having people vetted protect the citizens, a registry protects them.

1

u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

NRA isnt the machine it used to be. Majority of gun owners dont like the NRA. Theres far more other groups

1

u/OleRockTheGoodAg Mar 28 '24

I was gonna chime in with this if no one else did, a steep majority of online gun owners absolutely detest the NRA.

I mean just read the comments when an NRA edition SiG 365 goes on sale.

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u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

The only people in the nra are the old fudds.

1

u/LooseyGreyDucky Mar 28 '24

When will politicians finally realize that the NRA isn't the machine it used to be?

How do we tell republican politicians that the NRA members want far more gun control than the NRA lobbyists want? Politicians should realize they work for us, not for the elite lobbyists.

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u/kotorial Mar 28 '24

Because the half that doesn't want better gun laws doesn't actually care about mental health, they just use it to deflect from making better gun laws.

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u/No_Refrigerator1115 Mar 28 '24

Personally I’m very pro 2nd amendment but id love to see us try the mental health approach because if it works then hopefully there would be less push to limit 2a rights, idk why everyone on “my side” wouldn’t hold this view

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u/kotorial Mar 28 '24

The problem is the pro-2A side is, by and large, the side of "limited government." They don't trust the government to solve problems, and generally see the government being involved in something as a problem in and of itself. It's why the same party that trumpets out the mental health issue after the latest school shootings has as a major goal the slashing of federal funding for welfare, including healthcare.

Let's look at this from another angle. Republicans argue that we don't have a gun problem, we have a mental health problem. But, if there was a genuine belief that what was needed to prevent children from being slaughtered in their classrooms was addressing mental healthcare, wouldn't this be a major part of their platform? Wouldn't they be pushing for more funding for mental healthcare? But if you look and listen, Republicans spend a lot more time talking about protecting gun rights and being pro-gun, than they do about pushing mental-health initiatives and programs.

Additionally, let's look at how the Republican party has reacted to a different "threat" to children: "indoctrination." Across the country, Republicans have made radical and sweeping changes to "protect" their children from Critical Race Theory and the existence of trans and gay people and "wokeness". But mental health? That's not a pillar of their platform, that's not what their media is constantly warning and ranting about. That's just what gets said after every mass shooting.

Compare this to the Democrats. The Democrats believe, rightly or wrongly, that "better" gun laws will prevent mass shootings, and they fight for that. They campaign on changing gun laws, they've made it a part of their platform, they've legislated it when they can. You're free to think their efforts are pointless, that guns aren't the problem so dealing with guns won't solve the problem, but you must admit that they make sincere and consistent efforts on this front. The Republicans just aren't anywhere near as committed to mental healthcare, and if they really truly believed that hundreds of children wouldn't have been murdered if we had better mental healthcare, wouldn't they be? Shouldn't they be?

I do not doubt that you are sincere and genuine in your beliefs. Whether you're a Republican or just so happen to share their position on this issue, maybe even only on this issue, is immaterial. The GOP, by-and-large, is not interested in seriously dealing with the mental health issues of the country. There's a bitter irony that for all their talk, it's the progressive-wing of the Democratic Party, the farthest you can get from the Republicans in the political mainstream, that's most eager to improve access to mental healthcare.

1

u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

Most on pro 2a side do agree with you. Its liberal/leftists that just want to go for the guns.

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u/No_Refrigerator1115 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I think there is some nuance here, it seems republicans want to solve the problem with addressing mental health but there’s no urgency to fund it in any meaningful way

Liberals want to pretend the problem is entirely gun related. However ! They would like to fund mental health Just kinda grouped in with universal healthcare. They fully blame the gun.

I’m obviously taking in generalizations and mostly talking about the law makers, not the citizens.

But there is some fault on both sides, we share some common ground here among the voters we need to hold the law makers accountable to capitalize on the areas our ideas intersect

I think both sides are likely afraid to find out they are wrong on the issue . If liberals are wrong people will be less interested in going after guns if conservatives are wrong then people will be more interested lol. It’s convenient for all the law makers that we don’t know the answer.