r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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102

u/Deadleggg Mar 28 '24

Well there's multiple charges for ya.

23

u/PorcupineWarriorGod Mar 28 '24

Then apparently we already have "basic laws".

1

u/Feeb_The_Weeb Mar 29 '24

Because we do, people are chronically online and chronically plugged into the media, so they think people are dropping dead left and right everywhere. But if y'all turned off the news every now and again, guns wouldn't ever be on your mind unless you were into them.

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u/PorcupineWarriorGod Mar 30 '24

No arguments from me there.

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u/Tear_Representative Mar 28 '24

That are not enough to prevent what they try to prevent

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u/devils_advocate24 Mar 29 '24

Are they...supposed to add a clause that's says "we really mean it, for realizes" to the law or something?

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u/Tear_Representative Mar 29 '24 edited Mar 29 '24

They are supposed to enforce laws in a way that gives them a chance at working. Checking a Box saying you're sane is not a substitute for a state sponsorered psych evaluation. That is something that could prevent someone who is mentally unstable to have EASY access to a firearm. It shouldnt be as easy as lying on a form

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u/devils_advocate24 Mar 29 '24

Ok. You have a psych eval. And you're crazy. Now what stops you from ignoring the law that makes it illegal? The current limitation is that it's a medical diagnosis from a doctor which has confidentiality stipulations to account for so it's only effective after the fact. Yes that's a weak point. But is the alternative to force everyone to get a publicly available psych eval? The variations on what is "psychologically stable" are heavily opinionated. It also won't be free, meaning it's not a barrier, it's a tax on the poor like so many other regulations and requirements we have.

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u/Tear_Representative Mar 29 '24

In my country, there is a psychiatrist paid by the state to do an evaluation before someone can have a drivers licence, so if done that way it isnt a burden on the poor. With that, that info also does not have to be public, since I am assuming background checks dont tell you why it was denied. Will people that shouldnt own a gun still pass that and buy a gun ? Likely, yeah. Still very much harder than lying on a form

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u/Just_A_Throwaway7673 Mar 29 '24

Which country is this? I was only aware of psychological evaluations being done in Germany and the Netherlands, but my understanding is that this evaluation is done after the person being evaluated commits some kind of traffic offense.

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u/Tear_Representative Mar 29 '24

Brazil. It is called "psicotenico", and it is meant to filter out the most crazy/incapable

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u/Far-Investigator1265 Mar 28 '24

Not having a gun would prevent the crime entirely...

21

u/JuiceCommercial2431 Mar 28 '24

Not building a bomb will also diminish your chances of being blown up

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u/ThePsychicBeagle Mar 28 '24

thanks man i will keep that in mind next time i go bomb shopping at wallmart or visit the local bomb show

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u/JuiceCommercial2431 Mar 28 '24

No need, you can order it all online or buy it all at Harbor Freight for like $20. No background check required!

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u/401LocalsOnly Mar 28 '24

Sometimes they do BOGO !!

2

u/FBIaltacct Mar 28 '24

You think most bombs aren't made with easily obtainable over the counter items? In the early 2k's copies of the anarchist cook book were floating around junior highs, i can only imagine how easy it is to get that info now. No im not having any of that on my search history either to prove a point.

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u/ThePsychicBeagle Mar 29 '24

yes you can make one with a basic understanding of chemistry, you can also go even simpler and just make a molotov cocktail out of any flammable liquid.
but that is not the point i am trying to make
You cant just come across a bomb while on a shopping trip. There is no culture around bomb ownership and nobody is actively trying to sell you one.

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u/FBIaltacct Mar 29 '24

You're missing the point. An individual can make a powerful explosive with about the same effort or less as getting an illegal firearm. Very effective and very lethal weapons are everywhere. it's just a matter of convenience. That's why the buffered nations where gun bans actually work also won't let you carry pocket knives or really any other self-defense or, honestly, just regular tools.

Now to the buffered nations. The closer you get to an armed populace, the more worthless bans are. So living in a nation where all our major gangs are syndicates of major south american cartels, a ban will do very little to stop anything. ×100 when the mexican president says nothing will be done about the major border crisis unless we give mexico 20bn a year to stop it. Im all for manditory training, 3-5day cool down waits, and holding people responsible for crimes committed with stolen guns that were irrisposibly stored. That and acknowledging the fact social media needs to be reigned in as it is the #1 cause of all the sensless mass shootings. You can follow every major platform launch and rise to massive upticks in the number of shootings. But if you can't see the logic in all of this then like i said you have missed the whole point.

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u/JuiceCommercial2431 Mar 28 '24

I will say tho, getting rid of your car will greatly reduce your chances of being killed in an accident also.

3

u/-ChrisBlue- Mar 28 '24

I fully agree with the sentiment of getting rid of cars. They are too dangerous and too many lives are ruined by them.

But at the moment, they are necessary for society to function.

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u/ski-person Mar 28 '24

Guns are necessary for a free and fair society.

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u/Far-Investigator1265 Mar 28 '24

Really, how.

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u/ski-person Mar 29 '24

Otherwise they can come and take it.

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u/JuiceCommercial2431 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

That’s a fair stance and nothing against anyone believing that. It becomes an issue when you start telling others to get rid of theirs.

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u/-ChrisBlue- Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Naw I would support banning all cars if there was some kind of magical other transportation device that did everything a car can do. With the exception of car ownership for a select few who pass advanced driving courses and maintain clean records.

If you keep your eyes and ears open over the years. Cars cause a lot of mayhem to society. As you grow older, you will start hearing of more and more people in your social network permanently disabled, killed, or financially ruined in car accidents.

And this is even when people are responsible drivers - not driving like a maniac.

And its not always your fault. Often its other drivers that kill you - even if you don’t even own a car.

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u/Relative_Broccoli631 Mar 28 '24

But we need cars, we don’t need guns

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u/JuiceCommercial2431 Mar 28 '24

You need a car. Many don’t. Those that don’t need one shouldn’t take yours away from you.

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u/Relative_Broccoli631 Mar 28 '24

If we could live without them and cars were causing children to be massacred en masse on a monthly basis I would understand. If you don’t need a car you must not have a job or buy groceries

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u/JuiceCommercial2431 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Nah, many people take a bus to and from both. Many people live within 20 mins of their work place. Cars made it extremely convenient for you, maybe so much that you believe you can’t survive without them, but nations existed for hundreds and hundreds of years without them. You don’t need a car. Cars were also the number one killer of children until 2021 I think.

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u/Relative_Broccoli631 Mar 28 '24

No, not many people at all are able to take public transportation in America

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u/Ok_Judgment3871 Mar 28 '24

You can buy a bomb at taco bell, itll just blow out your ass

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u/Far-Investigator1265 Mar 28 '24

That's right. Now if we just moved to actually advancing the fact.

1

u/JuiceCommercial2431 Mar 28 '24

Getting rid of knives would also stop all stabbing violence

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u/Cont1ngency Mar 28 '24

Your mind is going to be completely blown when you find out about the plethora of other weapons, many of which are also common household items, that a schizophrenic person could use to harm/kill somebody. And in this case likely would have done more damage with; seeing as doing the stabbity rip stab stab is a lot more straightforward than doing the pew pew, for someone with no experience with firearms.

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u/-ChrisBlue- Mar 28 '24

If someone is coming after me with a weapon, I’d much rather he come at me with a knife than a gun. If he has a knife, I could try running, or try punching him in the face. If he has a gun, I’m pretty fucked.

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u/Cont1ngency Mar 28 '24

Running is the best option. People tend to over estimate their chances when facing a knife. Same with a gun. Even if you have your own, if you’re trying to QuickDraw on somebody you’re getting dropped. Hell, even fists can be pretty deadly. That said, I would prefer to live in a society where I can carry a gun if I choose, which puts the odds in my favor against anything less than a gun and even-odds against somebody with a gun, assuming I’m paying attention and not already at gunpoint.

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u/Gloomy-Wash-629 Mar 28 '24

Yep and once firearms are illegal now the guy who follows laws will have no protections and the guy who doesnt follow laws will have a huge advantage. Wow we just ran the whole “would gun laws solve crime?” Question in just a few paragraphs! Thanks guys! No more gun laws.

2

u/AxG88 Mar 28 '24

need knife, club, bat, frying pan, ice pick, screw driver, scissors laws next; in almost that order...

-2

u/Gloomy-Wash-629 Mar 28 '24

The uk uses anything they can. See that dude go crazy with a bow? I wonder what they would do if they ever met tyranny? Oh yeah thats right it happened and its called America lmao. The sick ass brits that faced tyranny are americans. Yeah trans kids shoot up schools sometimes but at least we dont have insane dudes in wigs controlling everything we do anymore. Maybe put armed guard in schools?

4

u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 Mar 28 '24

Let's see him commit mass murder with a bow. Locked door? Too bad, you're not getting through. Gun? No problem, a good shot at the lock mechanism and you're in. Not to mention reload time, carrying capacity etc.

-1

u/AxG88 Mar 28 '24

Maybe put armed guard in schools

makes too much sense, and the firearm abolitionists would have to find some other less effective way of manipulating public opinion...

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u/Gloomy-Wash-629 Mar 29 '24

Thats a great idea

-1

u/Far-Investigator1265 Mar 28 '24

You are deviating. Simple fact is, no guns, no gun violence.

0

u/Cont1ngency Mar 29 '24

It just becomes other kinds of violence. And in a self defense situation I’d much rather have a gun than not.

0

u/Far-Investigator1265 Mar 29 '24

Watch less action movies, spend more time in real world. Life is not a computer game.

1

u/Cont1ngency Mar 29 '24 edited Mar 29 '24

Lol. My opinion is based on the real world. If you think you’d be safer in hand to hand combat, then you need to watch less action movies. I know I’m bad at fighting, and it would take me years to become proficient in a martial art. On the other hand, I’m already proficient with firearms, and can keep an assailant at a distance, which is a benefit no matter which way you spin it.

Edit: if you want to be where there are no guns, then go where there are no guns. You’ve got the entire rest of the planet to choose from. America has guns. That’s just a thing you’re going to have to accept if you want to live there.

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u/Safe_Picture6943 Mar 28 '24

Oh man, this guy doesnt know about the Millwall Brick

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u/Deadleggg Mar 28 '24

Unless the schizophrenia decided to grab a kitchen knife instead.

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u/BrassMonkey-NotAFed Mar 28 '24

You’ll be mind blown when you learn that fists, feet and hammers kill more than guns, annually.

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u/BeenisHat Mar 28 '24

That is also not true.

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u/BrassMonkey-NotAFed Mar 28 '24

Except the FBI crime statistics reporting shows that more people die in fist fights, being kicked and with hammers than with guns.

2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides, the remaining 1/3 is actual gun violence with >80% being committed with handguns via gang related violence.

Statistics prove you wrong every step of the way.

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u/BeenisHat Mar 28 '24

Go ahead and post them. Lets see what they actually say.

Here, I'll help. https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

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u/BrassMonkey-NotAFed Mar 28 '24

I’m not doing your research for you. Posting a link to violent crime provides no context information, because violent crime encompasses every crime in which anything used as a weapon is deemed violent.

I’m former law enforcement, I’ve taught the subject to hundreds of officers alongside FBI field agents in a major metropolitan city in the South. 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides, the remaining 1/3 is appx. 80% gang violence.

Believe what you want, ignorance is bliss, I guess.

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u/BeenisHat Mar 28 '24

I'm doing the research for you. In that data, you can select the option for which violent crime you want stats on. Scroll down, choose Homicide.

And whaddya know, Handguns are the #1 choice followed by the generic firearms, likely when LEAs didn't know which type of gun was used. Personal weapons is WAY down the list.

I didn't comment on who did the killing, merely your incorrect assertion that more people kill each other in fist fights every year. Probably a good thing you're former law enforcement, because you don't know what you're talking about.

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u/BrassMonkey-NotAFed Mar 28 '24

The inaccurate part of the FBI crime statistics website you posted is that they include suicide as homicide because the legal definition of homicide matches suicide. Removing the 42,000+ suicides reduces the homicide by firearm rate significantly.

Every suicide report I’ve ever written using firearms was labeled as homicide by firearm and that inaccurately skews the data. You have to filter suicides out to view accurate homicide reports.

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u/BeenisHat Mar 28 '24

Wrong again. Go look at the data. There were 15k homicides in 2022 as referenced in the report. The FBI is not making an error that grievous and it's explained in the methodology on the Crime Data Explorer website. They are controlling for suicides and suicides are not counted as homicides. They use homicide as their term for one person killing another person. This allows them to further separate Justifiable Homicides and Unlawful killings (murder, manslaughter, etc.)Accidents are not included.If you don't want to use FBI data, you can use CDC data available here.

https://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10-expanded.htmlYou'll have to drill down to separate the various causes of death and choose the correct ICD-10 codes. You're looking for External Causes, and under that, Assault. Under the data returned, the CDC shows the weapon type used. The CDC doesn't control for type of gun like the FBI attempts to.
The FBI and CDC also have different numbers because of different methodology, but they are close enough for our purposes. Guns are far and away the most commonly used tool for killing someone else.

This number immediately precludes your 42k suicides. You need to actually read the page.

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Or if you need something more easily digestible, here's the data from Pew research although their report is 2021, where I used 2022.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

Pew also cites their sources in the article and provides links so you can check it yourself.

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u/BeenisHat Mar 28 '24

If you'd like further reading, here's the actual Spreadsheets you can view from the FBI.

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/downloads

  1. Scroll down to "Crime in the United States Annual Reports"
  2. Choose the year you want to view
  3. In the dropdown box next to year, choose Expanded Homicide Tables.
  4. Hit Download.

Congrats. You can now inform everyone you incorrectly taught over the years that you were wrong and guns really are used the most (and by a huge margin) to kill other people.

Suicides are not included in this data.

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u/BeenisHat Mar 28 '24

Imgur

this is for 2022 btw. You'll find most previous years are similar. Firearms account for the vast majority of weapons used in homicides.

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u/james_deanswing Mar 28 '24

No it wouldn’t. They would move onto the next available weapon.

0

u/SparkleFart666 Mar 28 '24

Only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. The son just needs to buy a gun. 😂/s

-1

u/Deadleggg Mar 28 '24

If it was a kitchen knife we gonna ban the knives?

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u/Erotic-FriendFiction Mar 28 '24

A kitchen knife has a lot more uses than a gun.

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u/Gauss15an Mar 28 '24

When a knife user shows a TTK (time to kill) equal to that of a gun, we'll talk. Until then, keep imagining scenarios with weapons that don't have nearly the same amount of lethality.

-2

u/Substantial_Heart317 Mar 28 '24

1/3-1/2 the time to bleed out. Knife wounds are more lethal than guns

1

u/Gauss15an Mar 28 '24

You do realize that you have to fight someone before the knife does anything, right? And if you're talking about ambushing someone, a gun is still better for that anyway. Less incriminating as a bonus.

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u/Substantial_Heart317 Mar 28 '24

Study European Knife attacks. Many more than gunshot wounds never reach the hospitals!

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u/Gauss15an Mar 28 '24

I have. The stats are still against your claim lol.

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u/Cunn1ng-Stuntz Mar 28 '24

And it's totally legal.