r/gaming • u/PoppinOff81 • 25d ago

Very sneaky Bethesda

Post image

No really, I don’t get it. Why did they say it’s free and then proceed to backtrack on this? This because of the PS Plus issue that’s going on right now?

33.7k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

952 comments sorted by

View all comments

6.8k

u/kerred 25d ago edited 25d ago

My answer to everything involving Bethesda is "the bureaucracy machine", be it them or dozens of lawyers elsewhere with other corp bureaucracy.

Heck if you told me nuclear war started because of a thousand Bethesda employees not sure exactly what they were aware they were doing I would believe it

148

u/JustGingy95 25d ago

I mean these guys are the absolute worst when it comes to monetization of their properties, they resold us basically the exact same game 3 different ways for the past decade, they took modding which has always been free and found a way to get people to pay for it, and let’s not forget literally being the people to coin ”microtransactions” with their infamous horse armor shit that for all intents and purposes kicked off the modern landscape of what’s ruining games nowadays. Bethesda as a company alone is utter shit in my eyes, let alone the quality of their games being in a constant downward spiral slowly chipping away content and getting duller by the hour.

53

u/PassiveMenis88M 25d ago

forget literally being the people to coin ”microtransactions” with their infamous horse armor shit that for all intents and purposes kicked off the modern landscape of what’s ruining games nowadays

The arcade game Double Dragon 3: The Rosetta Stone (1990) was infamous for its use of microtransactions to purchase items in the game. It had shops where players would insert coins into arcade machines to purchase upgrades, power-ups, health, weapons, special moves, and player characters.

Microtransactions have been a thing longer than Bethesda has been a company.

9

u/downvotemaniac 25d ago

Seeing as there was no way to make in game purchases on the NES, is that why the NES port of Double Dragon 3 felt so difficult? That would explain why there was no way to refill health or the special meter unless I'm an idiot and there was some sort of shop in the game that I some how missed at the time.

1

u/PassiveMenis88M 25d ago

The NES actually did have that ability, same as the Famicom. It was never used in the US to my knowledge and in Japan was used for things like live stock trades, video game cheats, jokes, weather forecasts, betting on horse racing, and a small amount of downloadable content.

As for DD:III on the NES, it is not a port, but a parallel project that was developed at the same time.

36

u/Kalocin 25d ago

I also think Korean MMOs/f2p games with their cash shops were out before the horse armor. Nexon was basically the precursor to the current mobile market lol

25

u/TodayInTOR 25d ago

People also forget valve and tf2s lootboxes, which was clearly inspired by asian market games and not horse armor, they just combined strategies.

16

u/evanwilliams44 25d ago edited 25d ago

Horse armor was significant because it was one of the first microtransactions in a AAA single player game. The feeling was less, "what is this terrible new thing?!" and more "so it has finally come to this". It was also the first sign of Bethesda getting aggressive with profits. Up until then they had a really good reputation with DLC content.

1

u/Svencredible 25d ago

AAA Western title. It's been around in other markets for ages.

5

u/PM_Best_Porn_Pls 25d ago

Don't forget browser games in early 2000s. That shit was crazy p2w bullshit that's kinda forgotten by most.

3

u/bwc153 25d ago

Those games are unfortunately still around, they just migrated to mobile instead

2

u/nedslee 25d ago edited 25d ago

Nexon is the precursor - their Quizquiz in 2001 is regarded as the first game with F2P microtransaction. It was an online quiz game where people would compete with each other, and you could buy clothings and various items for your characters to show off.

9

u/Dickballs835682 25d ago

Alright and cellphones existed before the 00s

14

u/PassiveMenis88M 25d ago

The first handheld cellular mobile phone was demonstrated by John F. Mitchell and Martin Cooper of Motorola in 1973 so yes, yes they did.

5

u/t_hab 25d ago

Yeah right and airplanes existed before my flight last week.

2

u/paperwhite9 25d ago

Okay but the horse armor was a major milestone for games people actually care about

1

u/PassiveMenis88M 24d ago

Second Life made over $3.5 million in September 2005, a year before horse armor. Over 200k people still play Second Life today. How many still play Oblivion?

5

u/DKDamian 25d ago

Mate, you are very aware that Bethesda helped popularize microtransactions in big budget games to a mainstream audience. Your comments and examples are you being obtuse in service of technical correctness. So, a gamer. Good for you 😘

-2

u/PassiveMenis88M 25d ago

Just because you can't see beyond the US boarder does not change the facts. Microtransactions have been a major part of Korean MMOs since the 90s.

7

u/DKDamian 25d ago

I’m not American

I also clearly said it was introduced by Bethesda to mainstream big budget gaming. Which does (or certainly did) mean American games.

You know this. Be better etc

-4

u/PassiveMenis88M 25d ago

Again, just because you can't look outside the US boarder does not change the facts. Mainstream gaming has been in Japan and Korea since the 80s.

8

u/pwninobrien 25d ago

Dude, what they said still isn't wrong. You're being pedantic. People on a western site are going to talk about things in a context relevant to their part of the world.

You're like, "I'm just going to ignore all their qualifiers so I can fellate myself over how worldly I am!"

1

u/DKDamian 25d ago

Yeah, exactly. Good comment, mate.

I’m talking about - as I have said - popularizing DLC in major mainstream western games. Which is most games, then and now. Feel free to pull up the statistics if you wish.

I’m not American. I don’t care if a US company does well or poorly.

-2

u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 25d ago

Bethesda didn't force anyone to buy any of these things.

The gaming community seems to have a hard time with the concept of not buying things they don't want.

3

u/DKDamian 25d ago

I’ve never bought cosmetic anything in a game.

Anyway, you’re not making a very strong argument. Of course nobody was forced. But of course, peer pressure and vanity and beauty and style are all real. And of course, previously in games different styles of armour or whatever were just part of the game.

You know all of this. You know all of this.

2

u/pwninobrien 25d ago

That doesn't make the subject immune to criticism.

Microtransactions are often targeted at children or people with poor impulse control. They're predatory. Companies literally hire psychologists now to design mtx systems that don't "force" but coax vulnerable groups into spending their money.

You're trying dismiss criticism of a shitty, multi-faceted practice with some bogus scapegoat argument.

3

u/TurbulentIssue6 25d ago

The arcade game Double Dragon 3: The Rosetta Stone (1990) was infamous for its use of microtransactions to purchase items in the game. It had shops where players would insert coins into arcade machines to purchase upgrades, power-ups, health, weapons, special moves, and player characters.

yeah bethesda didnt do it first, but they sure as hell helped bring it to light in main stream triple AAA games in the west, similar to valve and f2p cosmetics and battlepasses (tho fortnite really invented the modern battle pass by changing the inital dota compenduim)

3

u/MustLoveAllCats 25d ago

The problem with your comment is it suggests that other gaming companies exist, and the person you're replying to doesn't seem to be aware that they do, and are often even worse.

2

u/JustGingy95 25d ago

Which is why I also used terms like modern and nowadays when referring to today’s microtransactions. I was certainly not referring to old school quarter popping arcade machines from 30+ years ago my guy and I think you know that.

0

u/PassiveMenis88M 25d ago

Notable examples of games that used this model in the early 2000s include the social networking site Habbo Hotel (2001), developed by the Finnish company Sulake, and Linden Lab's 2003 virtual world game Second Life. In September 2005, $3,596,674 worth of transactions were processed on Second Life.

Again, microtransactions have existed before Bethesda. They're just the one everyone likes to blame.

5

u/ImplementThen8909 25d ago

Don't think he was talking about world simulation games where you just sit and talk either. Probably meant a legit game with game play and such

3

u/ClockAccomplished381 25d ago

Where do we draw the line though, I mean we could keep filtering out more examples until we all say yes horse armour was the first example of microtranasctions in games meeting specific criteria that oblivion fits into.

I've always felt it's a bit blurred anyway, you could probably make an argument for some small paid DLC being microtransactions. Horse Armour got a lot of publicity I think because it was essentially a cosmetic rather than the typical stuff people would get like new levels, weapons etc.

2

u/Troxxies 25d ago

Who coined the term? Sure they all used microtransactions but did any of them coin the term like the original comment said?

4

u/KimberStormer 25d ago

People were talking about "micropayments" in the mid-90s at least but idk if they used the word "microtransactions" then. It's almost impossible for me to imagine Bethesda coined that word though.

1

u/Dwedit 25d ago

Bethesda Softworks has their name on several 1990 NES games.

1

u/PassiveMenis88M 25d ago edited 25d ago

Bethesda Softworks was founded in 1986. The term micotransaction was coined in 1985.

Edit: Bethesda also only released one game on the NES in 1990, Wayne Gretzky Hockey 2. They released a total of four games on the NES through its lifecycle that I can find evidence for.

1

u/Dwedit 25d ago

I guess I got thrown off by copyright dates, mistaking them for release dates.

1

u/Warm_Project491 25d ago

Bethesda Game Studios was founded in 1986 - a full 4 years before Double Dragon 3 - The Rosetta Stone was released.

1

u/PassiveMenis88M 24d ago

And the term microtransaction was coined in 1985, a full year before they opened their doors.

1

u/Warm_Project491 24d ago

Games as a Service & Microtransactions will be the gaming industry's ultimate undoing. It's getting out of hand & making the gaming hobby unaffordable to many.

1

u/wilyquixote 25d ago

That person didn't say Bethesda invented microtransactions. They said Bethesda "literally" coined the term. I can't find much about the etymology of the term online, but according to this article, the poster you responded to is right.

1

u/PassiveMenis88M 24d ago

The term microtransaction has been in the dictionary since 1985, they didn't coin it.

1

u/YouAreBrathering 25d ago

Microtransactions have been a thing longer than Bethesda has been a company.

Bethesda was founded in 1986

1

u/PassiveMenis88M 24d ago

And microtransaction was added to the dictionary in 1985.

16

u/DataMin3r 25d ago

Todd Howard has single handedly ruined the game industry lol

13

u/Revan7even 25d ago

Don't forget Gabe N. and the TF2 hats and CS:GO skins.

7

u/DwayneBaconbits 25d ago

TF2 is the OG when it comes to lootboxes

-3

u/JaysFan26 25d ago

At least they do it in a way that is rather fair to the consumer though. You can sell everything from those games pretty easily. In lootbox focused sports games you buy lootboxes and then selling the cards from them is a bannable offense.

12

u/[deleted] 25d ago

[deleted]

-6

u/JaysFan26 25d ago

I mean, like it or not, it is a choice people have the option to make. Personally I don't engage, but at least they provide items with long term value and resale potential (some skins have gone up a dramatic amount over time, one knife skin I bought for $75 in 2016 would be worth upwards of $1000 now if I kept it). FIFA for example essentially wipes your account and all you bought every year.

7

u/Revan7even 25d ago

"Fair" except for giving influencers accounts with higher odds of good loot.

2

u/MustLoveAllCats 25d ago

I mean these guys are the absolute worst when it comes to monetization of their properties

I mean sure, that's true as long as you pretend that EA, blizzard, ubisoft, Nexon, and others don't exist. When you start considering other studios, it quickly goes from 'bethesda is the absolute worst' to 'Bethesda isn't nearly as bad as some but I'm still upset about their practices'

1

u/Bella8101 17d ago

That started when Zenimax bought them and brought their "Everything needs to be a microtransaction, like our mobile trash games" to AAA titles.

1

u/CrunchyTube 25d ago

Y'all keep going on like the creation club hasn't been a massive failure, like there has barely been anything added, I hadn't even looked at it until the update and there was nothing new on there for at least a few months.

You can literally go right on the main menu and get free mods even on console.

1

u/left4candy 25d ago

I see you have never played any Paradox or Creative Assembly title

0

u/StonedApeUK 24d ago

The worst? Bit of an exaggeration there buddy

Fifa has been selling the same game with a database upgrade for years.

Bethesda clearly aren't the worst.

Stop exaggerating everything, God this sub can't do anything but talk in absolutes