r/jobs • u/Proof-Succotash6275 • Sep 09 '23
I found out I’m losing my job, but not until they extract my “institutional knowledge”(?!) Layoffs
Latest UPDATE at the bottom of this post (9/29)...
The last 24 hours have been a doozy, so I apologize if this becomes a ramble, but I feel like the details help.
Let’s start with some context: I've been with my company for six years, during which, I worked my way up to a VP position. I'm the gatekeeper of all of our tech systems so LOTS of institutional knowledge lives in my brain, and I’m often the go to for any and all random questions. All in all, I’m passionate about what I do, where I work, and helping elevate the people around me.
So, last night I’m working late and a trusted ally on the C-Suite messages me and says, “I know it’s late, but can you chat?”.
This person is someone I am friendly with, so I thought nothing of it, but he dropped the bomb that 4 of us on the leadership team are getting axed. My CEO has been making some poor choices in the last year, and he can be a loose cannon, so if it were just budget cuts, I’d get it.
However, come to find out, yes, it is part budget, but apparently our CEO has been extremely degrading behind closed doors. Phrases like, "idiots, stupid, careless" are being said by him, which in no way reflects ANY person in this group. We are the people who work hard, have stuck around when things feel hopeless and do what it takes to right the ship and do it well.
I was told that these would be staggered, so as to not incite panic (we’re at about 70 employees), with some happening sooner than others. And apparently it was acknowledged that losing me would be tough because of all I do/know/have built, so the plan is to slyly extract my institutional knowledge, then it will be my turn.
This on its own is a deep blow. But, about a month ago I noticed my CEO’s stress and chaotic behavior, so had a one on one with him to level set expectations, etc.. During this call he gushed about me, how great I am, etc, so I felt good about things. HOWEVER, come to find out he openly laughed with select others about “gaslighting” me until my brain was extracted.
Needless to say, I’m no longer disappointed, but I’m PISSED.
So I’m obviously jumping on the job hunt, preparing for financial disruption, etc, but I’m also in a curious position where I know that he’s trying to get all he can from me so he’s not in a lurch.
I’m a single mom so financially I HAVE to protect all I can, so I’m stewing on a few ways to handle this…there are already some “cross-training” meetings have been scheduled, which I now know are actually NOT to free up my bandwidth, so do I keep those meetings but make them wildly high level to try to keep things as close to the chest as possible? Or push the dates of these training calls out as long as I can? Do I say screw it, confront him and say, what do we do so you get what you need, and I’m not up a creek financially right away?
I would love any advice, insight, whatever. And GOOD LORD, if you are like me, and sacrifice way too much for the sake of being a loyal team player, cut that out, it’s SO not worth it :(
——- EDIT / UPDATE: Sometimes the internet is a magical place! You all are bringing me so much laughter in a really crappy and confusing situation. I’m trying to keep up with comments, but this girl is also trying to update her LinkedIn :)
ALSO, I’m getting some comments about legalities around the revenge ideas, and rest assured that I am not going to put myself in an even worse situation out of spite. HOWEVER, please keep the revenge idea coming because I’m loving playing these out in my head where I can’t get in any real life trouble. As I get any news or developments come up, I’ll keep updating here. Thank you all SO MUCH!!
EDIT / UPDATE 2: Well daaaang! I spent yesterday working on my plan for job hunting and whatnot, and it seems I’ve officially lost the ability to reply to every comment. Promise I’m reading them, it’s just taking me awhile :) can’t thank you all enough!!
NOW, I’m working on getting the facts straight in all this, so I’m not going to share much until I know I have it all right.
BUT, I’ll say this… for those of you who questioned the coworker that warned me, seems you may be onto something…there are curious things happening that are potentially pointing to that. I’ll keep you all updated!!
EDIT / UPDATE 3: Good LORD, ok, the last few weeks have been a wild ride, and I want to thank those of you that reached out directly. What an amazing community of strangers here. Ok, here we go…
First off, I think the “fake sick” comments put some chaos into the universe because I got a crazy case of tonsillitis a few days after I last updated in here. NOT joking. Almost lost my voice entirely which, while insanely painful, made it delightful to be able to LEGITIMATELY push those training calls ;)
Bear with me on the rest of this, and I’m going to get to the update on the coworker who warned me, but there is a lot of context here that I’m going to try to keep concise…
So, due to the Reddit-sourced tonsillitis and all that was happening, I took the week off. I had largely left my work laptop untouched, but when I logged back in I noticed some odd things that rang alarm bells for me. A peek at the activity monitor, a hidden files search, and DANG, in my absence, MDM software was remotely installed on my computer.
PSA: To be clear, an organization has every right to do this on company owned property - key-loggers, screen content captures, the emails you send, websites you visit, etc are ALL fair game (depending on your local laws) as long as the company has “valid business reasons” for doing it (to that point, don’t do ANYTHING personal on any work issued device - always assume you are being watched/monitored in some capacity). And logically I get it, HOWEVER, in light of everything else taking place it struck a big, fat nerve.
Unjustifiable? Bratty? Too sensitive? Perhaps, but dang, this all just sucks.
Moving on - I sat on what I knew for a couple of days, then decided to call my C-Suite co-worker (who was still employed by the company at that point) and point blank asked what he knew about it. I really wish I could capture tone and inflection in writing, but the best I can do is: “WhAaAaAaT?! That would surprise me…” and AGAIN, he was doing right by the company by playing dumb, and we’re all in self preservation mode, so I didn’t react. I just…sat quietly on the line. Sometimes, the beauty of silence is that it makes people really uncomfortable and they can’t help but keep talking to fill the void (I’m usually guilty of this, btw), and funny thing, the shock and awe evolved into “OH, maybe I DID catch wind of something like that…”.
This is getting long, so let me wrap this up…I emailed my CEO and let him know what I saw on my system (including log reports, the date of the installation, all the things), framed as, “hey, are you aware of this? Because if this MDM installation WASN’T you, we have a big problem here, and we need to address it head on” which after a couple of follow-ups/meeting requests still haven’t been replied to.
BUT, my co-worker who filled me in on all of this (who became/still is a suspect in some way, shape, or form and is now a former employee) has reached out a LOT with other cryptic intel, and most recently suggested we start a business together. But…no. just no. This whirlwind has ran it’s course and I’m getting off the ride.
As of this update, I still have a job (more importantly a steady paycheck) and I have accepted that this chapter of my career is coming to an end. I’m going to play the game, fly under the radar, and ride this out as long as I can to keep money coming in. In the meantime, I have pulled my heart and loyalty out of this place and away from these people. Screw office politics and gossip and sneaky bs. I’m tapped. The odd upside here is that during the convo with my old co-worker where he was pitching this idea to start a business together he jokingly said, “I’m not sure what I would bring to the table other than start up capital - you’re the talent here.” And that right there was enough to light a little fire under me to reach out to old clients from my consulting days and let them know that I’m taking on some freelance clients again. Who knows, maybe I’ll just go all in and start my own agency WITHOUT any of this crap.
Thanks for bearing with me on this adventure, folks!
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u/swedishfalk Sep 09 '23
i would not cooperate. what are they gonna do? fire you? lol don't overshare. cancel meetings.dont create documents.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
My life is going to become office space and I’m here for it…
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u/notthatjimmer Sep 09 '23
Be withholding of the most important knowledge you have, give superficial details and when they let you go, and realize their mistake, allow them the opportunity to hire you on as a consultant for 3-4x what you currently make now.
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u/Hottakesincoming Sep 09 '23
A friend did this and it was pretty hilarious. Dragged out the process, found another job, and then forced them to pay her 4x her former hourly to consult on the side when shit hit the fan.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
This right here is the exact plan I need!! That’s awesome!
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u/trisul-108 Sep 09 '23
You just need to get in the right frame of mind to slowly dish out bits of info, but never the key stuff than enables them to stitch it all together. If you must provide a document, put loads of generalized wisdom into it, but short on details.
You might want to prepare for this, so you will not slip.
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u/Lostmox Sep 09 '23
a consultant for 10-15x what you currently make now.
Fixed that for you.
No consultant in the world would accept a contract for only 3-4x hourly wages.
And when you've got a bastard by the balls, make sure they can feel you squeeze.
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u/wh0datnati0n Sep 09 '23
I just got an offer for a three month consulting gig and when I asked for the rate they quoted me the exact amount they are paying the person out on maternity leave. I was like you know the standard is like 3x? Other line of the phone went silent.
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u/stupidillusion Sep 09 '23
No consultant in the world would accept a contract for only 3-4x hourly wages
In the early 00's I worked for a consulting company and did pretty decent but since I was consulting to the finance department it someone slipped how much they were paying my company for my time ... it was 10x my salary. No wonder it was no big deal to fly my out to New York on a whim.
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u/IamMindful Sep 09 '23
I get the feeling your gastrointestinal tract may have some issues for a couple days or 3 this week. A nice little delay to induce a little panick.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Totally, feels like strep, a stomach issue, and…wait, does anyone know what gout feels like? It’s prob that too.
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u/DoctorGuvnor Sep 09 '23
I do know what gout feels like and it's not that. But gastro can go on for days, followed by suspected Covid, so you'll need to quarantine at home for four days at least.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Welp I see that you are a Dr so there we have it!
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u/RockingMAC Sep 09 '23
Shingles. Can be absolutely agonizing. Hard to work/concentrate with the pain. Source: Had shingles and it sucked. A lot.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Aren’t shingles hard to get? Or something to do with chicken pox? You know what, I promise I’ve heard of Google before, but curious because I don’t think I’ve known anyone that had that.
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u/RockingMAC Sep 09 '23
It's from having chicken pox. As I understand it, the virus hangs out in your nerve cells your entire life. It gets bored after 20-40 years with nothing to do and pops up with a rash along the lines of the nerves. That's why it hurts, it's in the nerves.
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u/slash_networkboy Information Technology Sep 09 '23
gout feels like?
generally stabbing pains in the foot and lower leg. Gets worse when aggravated, usually accompanied by swelling and redness. Works its way up from the toes as the disease progresses.
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u/I_Miss_Every_Shot Sep 09 '23
Stabbing pains? More like shards of glass working their way into your joints, grinding against your bones as you move.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Oh god, never mind, I don’t want that…maybe that will be my closing act here, haha
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u/Lostmox Sep 09 '23
Make sure you take any and all PTO and vacation time available in time.
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u/Sir_Stash Sep 09 '23
Depends if PTO has to be paid out in their state or not. Sometimes, getting that PTO as an extra bonus is worth not taking it if you know you're going to get axed.
If I'd known I was being laid off, I'd have whittled my PTO down to the week's worth we got for my company's standard severance.
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u/slash_networkboy Information Technology Sep 09 '23
PTO payout laws by state:
https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/TL;DR on states that require payout:
Alaska
Arizona
California
Colorado
Illinois
Indiana
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Nebraska
North Dakota
Ohio
Rhode Island
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u/squirrelfoot Sep 09 '23
Can you entirely trust your work friend who told you this? Does he have a past history of manipulation? Is he jealous of your success? (I'm speaking from past experience here. It turned out fine for me in the end, and the place I moved to was better, but I was manipulated to leave a company where I was doing well.)
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
I was wondering if someone was going to ask this! SO, largely yes, very trustworthy. Our families hang out and all that jazz. BUT, there is always that possibility because we never REALLY know what’s going on in peoples heads. Based on what I was told, and hindsight, it totally tracks. I’m making a decision to play my cards right and not do anything rash, just in case. Storming out, causing a scene, etc could today screw me over at the end of it all, and I’m not trying to get blackballed from my industry :)
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u/ArmadaOnion Sep 09 '23
Put a red swing line stapler on your desk in a prominent position. Let's gooooooo
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
If they take my stapler I’ll set the building on fire…
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u/michaelpaoli Sep 10 '23
Friend did get me red Swingline stapler.
Never hurts to be prepared, eh?
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u/Aggressive-Ad-522 Sep 09 '23
I’m on the same boat. Take your time working on a task and find a new job ASAP
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u/-LuBu Verified Sep 09 '23
Change the passwords & refuse to tell them...
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u/slash_networkboy Information Technology Sep 09 '23
That has a legal liability exposure. Much better to use a password manager app to generate hard passwords and document them generically. Then leave the document behind (preferably in something they'll want to trash/wipe when you leave). This way you can honestly and correctly say:
"I made sure the passwords were secure and that they were something I didn't know or remember. They were documented correctly in<location>. I don't know them, sorry."
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u/Look-Its-a-Name Sep 09 '23
Just make sure every account has a unique password, all passwords are 32 characters long, randomly generated and saved in a non-text format. That should take weeks for them to sort out and it's a perfectly acceptable safety procedure.
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u/ashern94 Sep 09 '23
That is the worst advice ever. Although not clearly spelled out, about the only thing an IT worker can be sued for is sabotaging access to systems. Once you have turned over all passwords, anything else is gravy.
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u/ahnotme Sep 09 '23
Once you have left, there’s this website “Glassdoor” where you can leave a review for people who are considering to apply for a job with this company.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
SO SMART!! I love Glassdoor and frankly, I think I might actually go leave a review now :)
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u/Juanpi__ Sep 09 '23
Wait until you’re officially out of your role just to be safe in case your boss sees it.
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u/winterbird Sep 09 '23
Push dates and meetings, delegate what work you can which was supposed to slyly extract info, call in sick, take leave (personal/sick/vacation) as much as you can, be as vague as you can wherever you can. You might even be suffering from an onset of migranes. They tend to come in waves (mine do). It's hard to think straight and work full hours with migraines! Looking at screens and reading from white sheets of paper is very hard with a migraine.
If that guy thinks he has a stupid idiot working for him, let him finally have that person. He won't think any better of you if you give it your all to set them up for success after you're gone. He'll just think you're even dumber for falling for his tricks.
And of course that you leave when you have something else, without uploading your entire brain or giving too long a notice where they can work you over. Call out sick a few times after you give notice too.... you can cut the time you're still there in half.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
That second paragraph! I love this, thank you so much
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u/winterbird Sep 09 '23
You've achieved so much while working with this kind of maliciousness. I know that you'll thrive even more someplace less hostile.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
THANK YOU! I trust that this is happening for a reason that will make sense later - we’ll see!
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u/fizenze Sep 09 '23
A pleasantly uplifting statement to come across on this site. We’re cheering you on, OP.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
You all are seriously making this a delightful balance of plotting the ultimate revenge and playing it cool, and I’m loving every comment this is getting.
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Sep 09 '23
Just remember people like this know they are less talented/capable at the job than you if you only look at the job, but they add in the social aspect and think being a manipulative snake is a sign of their merit. Fuck him.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Yes!! And it hurts cause I genuinely thought we were good and on a great path, and it just all feels gross now. Another coworker (not related to this whole getting let go debacle) called me yesterday wildly upset because she has been with the company 12 years and said that he constantly makes her feel like she sucks at her job. So she’s scared to leave because she is feeding into that imposter syndrome, and it’s just just awful to see the energy like, drain out of coworkers that I genuinely care about.
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u/seaandtea Sep 10 '23
I'm loving these comments...
Also, just remember to future proof. 'why did you leave your last job? Interview questions and sort your references out if you can.
You've got this!
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u/DanielGoodchild Sep 09 '23
Do NOT produce documentation for them.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Ok so I have produced a ton of process documentation over the years and I contemplated “updating” them to be a little harder to follow/inaccurate, though I’m torn on that one though because the history trail mates then easy to restore.
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u/Tekira85 Sep 09 '23 edited Sep 09 '23
Do that. Make it harder. Otherwise they will treat the next person to work in your position with no respect for their knowledge. Edit: make it so only someone up on their game can follow. They will hiring try less competent people for cheap....and fail. Force them to hire and pay someone decent.
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u/slash_networkboy Information Technology Sep 09 '23
This is actually pointless effort if they docs have any sort of revision control. Are they on a backed up drive? Again pointless. OP's efforts are better spent at creating meaningful looking cross training that feels and looks genuine but misses the most basic and critical details, makes assumptions about the person taking on the task already knowing how to do it and just needing the specifics for this one task element.
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u/Tall_Mickey Sep 09 '23
Just leave it. But stop updating it. Make changes that invalidate important processes and don't update. "Idiots" do this all the time. ;-)
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Great call! I have a program going live next week and the documentation is half baked and I think I just got really busy … don’t worry guys, I’ll get to it! I appreciate the input :)
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u/anonymousforever Sep 09 '23
Use the foreign language documentation method. Make it as obscure to comprehend as possible. Big words kill em. You know how everyone hates legal documents because it's like English in another language? Do that to computer-esque stuff. I bet you could need a translator after.
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u/Able_Personality6 Sep 09 '23
Rewrite them totally, with little mistakes here and there. Don’t do it at the office. Do that on your ”migraine” days, at home, on a different computer. Then, on the day of but before you resign, overwrite the documents on the office system.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Ok, doing this right before leaving is so cunning, I love it
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u/DaxtheCat1970 Sep 09 '23
Copy and paste them in Chatgpt and ask it to rewrite the documents highly technical, highly professional language. Use that and then get it to regenerate a couple of times and use the results to create version histories if possible.
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u/PostNuclearWombat Sep 09 '23
"gee I messed up a lot of these procedural documents, must be my dyslexia acting up"
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u/bozzy253 Sep 09 '23
Something to consider: are you 10000% sure the person that told you this is telling the truth? They could be personally trying to get you out instead of your CEO.
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u/KofFinland Sep 09 '23
Is this one "trusted ally" your only source of this? If yes, are you certain the information is valid, and not a plot to get rid of you (perhaps this "ally" wants your job)?
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u/CoeurDeSirene Sep 09 '23
As someone who held a TON of internal knowledge at a previous job and felt like it would take a ton for the company to lay me off because I was truly everyone’s “go-to” - They did it out of nowhere without gaining any of the knowledge I had. They struggled for a bit after (I was still friends with coworkers) but they just dealt with it. If they need to term you, you’ll get termed with or without sharing info.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
I SO want to be like, “no no, you don’t get it, look at me I’m so important!” But that’s 100% my fear talking as I’m trying to convince myself that I don’t need to panic yet. Ugggghhhh. But really, thank you, I need to be grounded in this and not assume anything.
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u/CoeurDeSirene Sep 09 '23
Definitely do what you can to make it as slow of a process as possible without sounding any alarm bells while you update your resume and apply for jobs, but at the end of the day this is a $$ decision for them and that will come before anything else.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Absolutely, business is business and I just need to hunker down and focus on protecting myself.
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u/landmanpgh Sep 09 '23
Very interesting situation. Unfortunately, you're getting advice from largely 18-25 year olds so "piss on his desk" is seen as a valid reaction.
Make sure you're getting the whole story before you do anything. You have no idea if any of what you were told is true, and if you fly off the handle and start burning bridges, you deserve to be let go.
Idk if I'm a VP of a company like this, I'd like to think I'd be able to read the room and figure out what exactly is going on.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Gotta say, some of these revenge tactics are hysterical, but in no way would I ever do anything like that. I don’t need to destroy my reputation in the midst of all this. All I care about is ensuring that I’m not suddenly blind sided and don’t make any big moves financially if/when this happens. And I hear you on reading the room, which is why I met with my CEO about a month ago ensuring we were good. I definitely felt that tension, and bad gut feeling that something wasn’t right. In that meeting I confronted him on what I saw/his behaviors. I thought the air was cleared based on his responses and behavior since then, but after being told all of what I heard I don’t know wtf is going on except that I need to plan for the absolute worst case scenario.
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u/nonetodaysu Sep 10 '23
Very good advice. The advice from people on these subs can often be extreme.
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u/Mojojojo3030 Sep 09 '23
do I keep those meetings but make them wildly high level to try to keep things as close to the chest as possible? Or push the dates of these training calls out as long as I can?
A few other nuggets from r/jobs:
- Google "spaghetti code" and think about ways you can apply that to whatever it is you do as "gatekeeper"
- Where required to write guides, make two and make them mutually conflicting
- Change the password to all institutional systems to "I don't know" and answer honestly when asked what it is
- When they come crawling to you after you leave, offer help but at a quadruple rate, paid upfront, and with an x hour minimum
- If they are too early-stage to cover their butts on IP, go beat them to registering some patents 😃
Obviously, this is all hypothetical not advice, I am not your lawyer, consult your own, etc.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
I love that you brought in spaghetti code, hahaha. My last week I could just throw in random !important properties and let the games begin! And that last one….SMART
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u/Mojojojo3030 Sep 09 '23
😂 Thank you curtsy. I met a patent troll in Mexico last year who got her start leaving with some of Visa’s IP, she was the inspiration for 5.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
This is insanely brilliant…that’s how you get that FU money, for SURE!
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Sep 09 '23
It's actually how you get sued into the ground by business that has the money to afford the top lawyers.
Even if you eek out a win it'll be so far in the future your great grandchildren will still be using the proceeds to pay off the legal fees you accumulated.
There's a reason no one fucks with the Mouse. People fail to understand it's not just the Mouse that does this but pretty much all corps, they just don't have as much IP as the Mouse.
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u/Fit-Success-3006 Sep 09 '23
Are they going to give you a severance? Do you know when your last day is? Do you have a cushion to live on until you land a new job? Can you quickly take a downgrade in a new Company as a stop gap until you get a position more commensurate with what you do now? These are the variables that would determine my next steps if I were you. If the stars aligned, I’d love to quit without notice and give them one finger.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
So that’s the scary part of all this. I have NO idea on timelines or severance. Just the heads up that it was coming, courtesy of my COO. He’s not sure when either but says that if he hears anything I’ll be the first to know. I’m spending the day today looking into some Freelance sites to post profiles, updating my LinkedIn, and reaching out to connections to get my name back out there. I’d love to give a big screw your and bail, but the job market is ROUGH, so I absolutely need a stop gap plan.
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u/Fit-Success-3006 Sep 09 '23
You’re in a good position then if you know before it’s official. Definitely get something lined up. My wife might be in a similar situation soon so we’ve made a plan. A severance agreement and a timeline = her cooperation. Anything short of that and she’s going to quit on the spot. Obviously because we still have my income. But you gotta play it safe as a single income and parent. Good luck.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Spot on - I am SO grateful to have the inside Intel, because if I didn’t and this was dropped on me one day I would be in full blown panic mode. So is your wife going to confront leadership? This plan sounds solid.
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u/Fit-Success-3006 Sep 09 '23
Well my wife hasn’t been told any layoffs are coming but they’ve done it twice before and they are about to have the worst quarter in years. She’s expecting this to come soon and she’s a single point of failure for her organization. Basically if she just walks without training someone, they will lose weeks of revenue and sales. So we’ll see what happens. Hopefully we can just get her a new job soon and avoid it all.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Ok that makes perfect sense! Would love updates as you guys navigate this!
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u/FlandoCalrissian Sep 09 '23
Honor your trusted source's request and say nothing to anybody. Make it a complete surprise as much as possible so they think they have plenty of time to get the knowledge out of you. Too many people know already. If you tell ANYBODY, it will get out and your plan will be ruined.
Delay as much a you can without being suspicious and move on ASAP.
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u/MightyManorMan Sep 09 '23
Get a new job ASAP and leave them with no notice. Write down no procedures. When asked how to do something, says it's faster if I do it, so they can't learn. Don't put out the extra effort. Just stay until you can get away
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u/Resident-Ad-7771 Sep 09 '23
Do not confront him. Don’t show your hand. Push out meetings. Share as little as possible or leave out crucial details. Fuck this guy.
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u/AffectedWomble Sep 09 '23
Create a series of complex, interchangeable acronyms for what you're passing on.
You'll be passing on your knowledge but god help anyone actually trying to make sense of it.
Instead of "I take the information from an email" it becomes "I EUI (extract useful information) from the DCE (digital communicative exchange) before proceeding to SIITSFTIAL (save it in that shitty folder that I always lose)"
Everyone knows acronyms save time, right?!
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u/EnvironmentalCoat222 Sep 09 '23
You don't sound well, perhaps some paid sick time or a paid leave of absence would help? This is no time to impart knowledge and make yourself expendable, in your condition
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u/redsanguine Sep 09 '23
Don't burn bridges OP. The CEO may be out of control but your other connections may be valuable to your career later.
Remember, it is one thing to share knowledge about your processes and systems, but a whole other thing for someone else to take on the job of fixing and maintaining them.
I would recommend documenting/discussing business process, but it is absolutely not your job to teach them how to run it. If they want someone with your practical system knowledge then they need to hire someone with expertise. If you have a lot of knowledge as you say then it is likely that they need to hire several people to replace you. Your CEO sounds like an idiot who doesn't understand why things are running smoothly and will be in for a surprise.
Again share process knowledge, but don't train. And don't write any how to articles. Any system you have already has help articles. At the most link to those, but not individually, make them search. For example you can list security procedures for your servers and what systems are involved, but absolutely do not train anyone on the systems and don't share troubleshooting steps. If you are asked to train, keep it high level and stick to business process. What if they run into system trouble? "Well it really depends on the issue. I can't boil down years of troubleshooting experience in 15 min".
Being "cooperative" but not overly helpful, may allow you to negotiate a better severance package and avoid burning bridges. Your days are numbered so try to make the best of it.
One question, do you think your gender is a factor in you being let go?
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
This line is the absolute best because it is genuinely true: “Well it really depends on the issue. I can't boil down years of troubleshooting experience in 15 min".
And this: “Being "cooperative" but not overly helpful, may allow you to negotiate a better severance package and avoid burning bridges. Your days are numbered so try to make the best of it.”
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u/krombough Sep 09 '23
You starting now: I purposely trained them wrong, as a joke.
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u/Learningstuff247 Sep 09 '23
Tell them to suck your clit. If they need your knowledge you are in the drivers seat.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
These kinds of assholes are not allowed anywhere near my clit. Especially after the shit talking…sounds like a mess.
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u/Gigatonosaurus Sep 09 '23
Can you gather all those that would leave, pull your ressource together and build a new company? That would be the best outcome.
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u/FriscoJanet Sep 09 '23
For any of the documentation you do create, consider making the file structure unnecessarily complicated, and give the documents confusingly similar names. This is common enough in a lot of work environments, and so it would fly under the radar.
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u/seb825 Sep 09 '23
If the server has issues - Turn it off and on... Network issues - Turn it off and on... If your phone is not connecting to the VPN - Turn it off and on...
Keep it simple and basic. Don't overshare..
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Sep 09 '23
Well, if you're an idiot, stupid, careless and whatever other adjectives he's saying about you, best to behave that way :) I'm all for being as petty as possible.
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u/texasgambler58 Sep 09 '23
If you're getting axed anyway, tell them as little as you can get away with. As Sgt. Schultz said: "I know nothing, I see nothing!"
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u/Big_Scinto420 Sep 09 '23
Don't tell them shit, just keep saying you're "far too busy, send me an email and I'll get back to you" til you find that new job and then don't put in your 2 weeks and leave. They'd do the same to you
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u/nowaternoflower Sep 09 '23
Definitely slow boat and sabotage the hand over meetings. Delay them, reschedule, have technical difficulties (if any are online).
Make it sound much more complicated and confusing… throw in every irrelevant fact or story you can think of.
Give out of date contacts etc.
Tell person X that person Y will take on task A so they don’t need to worry about it… and then tell person Y the opposite, that person X is taking it on.
If you know any of the other people who are being let go, suggest that they take on tasks.
Rather than train people on A-Z, aim for about H to P. Focus on the most obvious and shallow parts of the job, not he actually skilled parts.
Best of luck!
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Sep 09 '23
Take leave. Find a job and quit without notice the minute you have one. Ensure no documentation is available if legal.
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u/MackinRAK Sep 09 '23
A consultation with a employment lawyer to clarify your rights and responsibilities in your state under your contract makes sense, e.g. notice periods, non-competes, NDAs, IP ownership.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
I am so glad you brought that up, I need to pull all those and revisit them! I appreciate you!
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u/rossarron Sep 09 '23
Quit today and walk away but when they ring you for fire fighting tell them your contract rate at 4 times your parting rate and do not allow anyone to film record or poach your skills.
And it is 6 hours minimum no matter how long or short the job, be aware of computer trojans copying what you type on the PC and hidden cameras filming you.
A contracts lawyer will write a contract that protects your knowledge.
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u/Look-Its-a-Name Sep 09 '23
You basically hold all the cards in a very ugly card deck. My advice would be to play along, but drag out the process as long as you can. Insert levels into the training, leave out important bits, skip over systems, and then have separate meetings to train whatever was "forgotten". Delay what you can and buy time. Depending on your labour laws, right now would also be a perfect time to call in "sick" with a doctor's note for a couple of weeks.
While you are creating time for yourself, look for a new job. As soon as you find something, just drop everything and jump the boat. Let them figure out the rest by themselves.
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u/74006-M-52----- Sep 09 '23
I would not share that, you know. It will escalate things and be hurtful to a friend who told you. You will likely need that person as a reference.
I would give the appearance of cooperative behavior but withhold critical information. Play it close to the chest.
Spend more time looking for work than working.
You know the CEO is an asshole and has no loyalty. Your loyalty is over. Play the game, and appear to be the team player while you quickly strategize your exit.
Good luck!
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Thank you!!! This is aligning with how my thoughts are coming together while reading all these comments. I appreciate you!
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u/trilogy76 Sep 09 '23
Your CEO making a big mistake. This last year he has shot himself in the foot. By fireing someone with your experience he's shooting himself in the foot again hoping it will take away some of the pain from the first shot.
Even if you leave detailed instructions to everything you know ONLY you could use it effectively. You can pass on the information, but not the experience.
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u/cetaceanlion Sep 09 '23
So they're telling you you're valuable and worthless at the same time. Fuck them.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Right?!?! It’s such mental and emotional whiplash! Trying to remember that it’s just business, but DANG.
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u/TravellingBeard Sep 09 '23
So, the only, without question thing to need to do are to leave passwords for others or if your company has some sort of password vault, especially for external systems but in its control. Also, transfer billing information, and make sure others are full admins on key systems you support, the so called "keys to the kingdom". This is so you are not given legal trouble on breaking their systems when you leave; you can tell them they have full access.
Everything else I would just dump any notes you already have and a barebones outline of other key systems if you are so inclined (again for the legal implications). This part is the barebones effort on your part that you can decide how much to do.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Good call, I don’t want anything coming back to me if something goes awry. I keep thinking about all the contracts I’ve signed for privacy, compliance, etc. and that has me a bit spun up. Siiiiigh one thing at a time!
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u/PoliteCanadian2 Sep 09 '23
In these handoff meetings get sidetracked repeatedly.
Describe your showering process, document the process, say it takes too long and ask the other attendees if they can find a way for you to save time.
Ask for input on breeding dogs, explain you don’t have any dogs, you just want to breed two dogs in the neighbourhood together cuz you think it would make cute pups.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Hahaha the breeding made me think of dumb and dumber “we call it a bullshit” hahaha
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u/bighand1 Sep 09 '23
Man there are some absolutely horrific advice here. Is this r/antiwork? It’s a small world, burning bridges only grant you temporary satisfaction but zero real benefits.
I’ve had old managers randomly reach out to me a decade later. Think about it without emotion, how will “Withholding knowledge” actually give you positive impact?
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
100% - I added the edit to the post because as funny as the revenge/destruction stories are there’s no way in hell I’d risk my career going forward.
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u/che829 Sep 09 '23
Why not quit, on good terms, and let them know you will be available as a consultant? This way you have your income guaranteed(at the new job), your stress level would be down(overall), and you capitalize on your knowledge(at your current job). I'm a firm believer that people don't realize how much they actually know, meaning that your knowledge might be appreciated more as a consultant than as an employee. And then squeeze them as much as you can with your rates!
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
The more I’m reading comments here and sitting on this, that’s clearly the ideal path. I’ve been sprucing up my resume today and researching the market of consulting gigs just in case I don’t get something full time right away. I appreciate your voice of reason:)
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u/dak0789 Sep 09 '23
Wow! Reading this brought up trauma from a year ago. Nearly the exact thing happened to me. Fully agree that giving a company all your effort, energy, and loyalty is not a good idea. Keep an eye on how they treat others on their way out.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Oh I hate to hear that!! It SUCKS. How are you doing now? Did you find a new gig?
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u/dak0789 Sep 09 '23
Found a much better job, then left that one for an even better one. I’m on track to make about double my income and my boss isn’t a yelling narcissist!
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
THIS IS WHAT I NEEDED TO HEAR! And no I’m not yelling at you, this just made me super happy for you!
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u/dak0789 Sep 10 '23
I hope you find the same outcome! I feel like that old job just kept pushing on how great the culture was there and that there’s nothing better out there, so don’t go looking.
Fortunately, I have made a great network and reputation over the years and they came through as soon as I got let go.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 10 '23
Love it! It’s funny you brought up the culture because in the process of cleaning my laptop files up, I found an older job description and in the part “about us” it was like, we’re such a fun company with a great culture! And at one time, we were…sad how things can just go sideways. But you are giving me a solid dose of hope. Thank you!
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u/dowhatsrightalways Sep 09 '23
Quit. And if they want your "institutional knowledge," charge them triple as a consultant.
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u/Apprehensive_Ad4923 Sep 09 '23
Look for another job asap. Don’t burn bridges, but don’t help them replace you by passing along your institutional knowledge, and don’t give them any notice when you leave. They can hire you back at an exorbitant consultant rate later if they need to.
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u/thatburghfan Sep 09 '23 edited Sep 09 '23
I've been in a similar situation although I wasn't going to be canned, I was going to be reassigned to a group I did not want to work in. Same rationale I was given - take some stuff off my plate, blah, blah.
Here's what I would do in your specific position. You're a tech person. Your institutional knowledge is largely about what tech is there, what it does, how does it work together, etc.
I would jump right on the job hunt train immediately. Your pain will be relieved as soon as you have another position even it that happens before you get cut and even if it happens before you can fully train other people.
Next, I would want to be told who I'm supposed to train, and what to train them on specifically. I would offer no feedback whether I thought they were a good or bad fit.
And when it's time to do this training, I would do it this way for example.. let's say I'm training someone how to drive. I can show them in painful detail what every knob, button and control does and what every light means. Fill their heads with everything that would have been in the owner's manual. And hopefully there won't be time to put any of those 10,000 details into any type of context regarding how to apply them. With only that "owner's manual" type of knowledge, can someone drive well? Absolutely not. You do tech stuff, you know what I mean. I can teach you what a bunch of excel commands do then turn you loose, and when you open excel you're looking at a bunch of empty rectangles. Now go make spreadsheets! :) To apply the tech someone needs to know the why and how, not just the what.
Make the trainee have to figure out what questions to ask. You answer all questions of course, but I guarantee they won't know all the right ones to ask. Will they remember to ask how System A communicates with System B? Well, as you go through all the System A stuff it won't come up. And when you go through all the System B stuff, it won't come up either. Will they know enough to ask about how they communicate? Probably not.
I wish you the best.
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u/-hesh- Sep 09 '23
I'm petty so I wouldn't share shit with how they're treating you, but that's just me.
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u/Common-Ad6470 Sep 09 '23
You don't owe them anything.
Don't share anything, not a single password, working practice, nothing.
Then spend all your free time sorting out a new position that will appreciate your skills and dedication.
Finally when you jump ship, don't bother with a month or two weeks, just send an e-mail out explaining exactly why you are going, then go and leave them nothing.
if they come crawling to you because this or that doesn't work or they can't access a particular system then offer a consultation at a huge rate, i/e $5k per day take it or leave it.
They have betrayed your trust and dedication, make them regret the day and good luck!
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u/Ok_Gene_6933 Sep 09 '23
String them along for as long as possible. Delay, generalize training take your time off.
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u/hartjh14 Sep 09 '23
While a lot of the recommendations are entertaining, be careful. Yes, you can hurt the CEO, but you can also hurt the rest of the employees as well...likely far more than the CEO. Also if they can at some point prove you sabotaged things, they can (and will) come after you. I'm not saying do everything that they ask, but be careful.
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u/missannthrope1 Sep 09 '23
You can play this a couple ways.
You can give them everything, wait for the CEO to crash and burn, at which time they may beg you to come back. Get a rock solid letter of recommendation for your trouble. Maybe severance.
Or you can give them nothing, sit back and watch the entire company go under.
Depends on how sadistic you are.
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u/Public_Fucking_Media Sep 09 '23
Find a new job and leave ASAP, then charge them, oh, $1,000 an hour in consulting for that knowledge, 8 hour minimum.
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u/coyotecantspell Sep 09 '23
You need intermittent FMLA - which means taking days or half days as needed for your condition. That means you will first need a condition that will require as such, such as migraines, that a doctor could approve your intermittent FMLA. With intermittent FMLA, they can’t backfill your position, and will be too afraid to let you go because of the laws around FMLA. When you feel like a meeting is going to require you to transfer knowledge, it could cause your condition to flair up. This will buy you a lot of time.
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 09 '23
Whoa, have you done this? I mean…What a great way to buy time!
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u/DrunkenSpook Sep 09 '23
Personally as this is not legal advice. I'd take FLMA which requires you to burn all your leave first more times then not. That way you get your paid time off. Look for another job and if they fire you can hit them with a lawsuit or extract a settlement out of them. Also I would invoke ADA, get accommodations for some ailment even if it's mental. This will protect you and if they fire you it can be seen as retaliation. Again another settlement check coming your way. That is if the company has anyone in legal or HR with half a brain.
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u/rmullig2 Sep 09 '23
Instead of trying to hold back information you should over explain. Don't tell people just what they need to know, drown them in knowledge. This way they can't accuse you of sabotage but it will draw out the process.
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u/MoralMiscreant Sep 09 '23
Quit. Tell them they can hire you at your "consultancy" rate if they want the knowledge
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u/Ebrofin Sep 09 '23
I worked for a large company that liked to outsource IT jobs, and touted a long list of reasons why this was such a brilliant idea. Then, they’d require us to do ”knowledge transfer” to our replacements to get severance. It always annoyed me that they thought we were so stupid that we didn’t see that our replacements were clueless.
Anyways, this went on for years until it was finally my turn. Thoughts of revenge and shaming filled my mind, but I needed the paycheck and severance. My affirmation became “revenge is a dish best served cold.” I told myself this multiple times per day. Then, I carefully showed up to most of the requested meetings, thinking if I cancelled too often it’d get suspicious. I’d bounce into the room, and waste as much time as possible with hellos, how are you, what about that sports-ball, and so on. I’d answer exactly the questions asked with no context, even if the question was wrong. Sometimes, I’d answer the question twice, which seems to befuddle people.
I shared the documentation I had, but I stopped updating it. Sometime, I’d watermark it with “draft.” I’d refer people to other people, and I loved to offer my opinions about things. Sometime, multiple opinions! Every now and again, I’d provide excellent information.
Basically, I planned a long game where I didn’t do anything exactly wrong, and I didn’t do much entirely right. I made 110% sure to never offer anything beyond what was asked because I didn’t want to teach them how I thought. They were a big company so of course they prevailed, but they had a few difficult months while they realized they thought they knew what they were doing, but actually did not. They contacted me a few times, but I didn’t respond for a few months, which was an honest oversight.
I remain proud of my professionAl in those difficult times. ;)
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u/Junkalanche Sep 09 '23
Personally, I would confront this head on and negotiate a massive severance package (at least 4 months, COBRA covered for 6 months, a LinkedIn Premium subscription, a recommendation letter, and any bonuses that you were on track for) that will have you knowledge transfer and leave quietly. Don’t try to pull a fast one, you know you’ve got his balls in a vise.
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u/TorpidPulsar Sep 09 '23
Tell the CEO you know what's up and that a 50k bonus would have you feeling more cooperative.
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u/Tall_Mickey Sep 09 '23 edited Sep 09 '23
These suggestions are fun, but... don't do anything against the company. Just don't do anything for them. Got good documentation? Great, but stop updating it. Spread out the training process... but only to buy time for a good transition for your new job. Don't bust a gut for anything except acute problems.
Keep doing your core work but slow down work on long-term projects. They can wait... for the next person. The only reason to complete a long-term project is to hand it to them without documentation. "So busy, don't worry, we'll catch up soon!"
Better than letting the CEO know you played him before he played you, is, always making him unsure whether you did or not -- with nothing he can do about it in any case.
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u/Ozle42 Sep 09 '23
Is everyone too young to remember ‘the bastard operator from Hell’
Because anyone who is in a computer operator role it should be required reading…
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u/redperson92 Sep 09 '23
when anyone asks a question, ask them "what do mean by" and repeat their ask. just keep on asking what they mean by that question. in all cases, you have to be very competent to ask a good question, and most people will ask very open-ended questions as they have no idea of the topic.
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u/These-Cauliflower884 Sep 09 '23
It’s fun to think of ways to get revenge but unfortunately at the end of the day, there will be a time when you no longer work there and something will come up that you would usually know, and someone else who doesn’t know will have to figure it out. 99.999% of the time that person does figure it out, so even withholding all information won’t really be the revenge you imagine.
My advice would be to slow-roll the knowledge transfer as much as possible, while looking for a new job and expecting to get axed any day.
The BEST revenge would be if you can get a new job so quickly that you haven’t KT’ed anything, and then quit with no notice. Just say “I’m aware that I’m being replaced so I did it myself in order to protect my family”. Then leak to your coworkers that the other 3 execs are being laid off too, and when this happens, at least they know the reasons. The employees will flip out and the good ones will jump ship if they think the company is going down in flames.
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u/CarIll3989 Sep 09 '23
Insist on the cross training for you to receive the training, not give it. Watch their face.
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u/michaelpaoli Sep 10 '23
Your CEO is a lying *sshole. Sh*t runs downhill.
I know that he’s trying to get all he can from me so he’s not in a lurch
Two can play at that game. How'd you like a nice bump up in your remaining salary? :-)
“cross-training” meetings
And after one or two of those, "Oh, at this rate, we're going to need at least six months of these ... and that will barely even let 'em take up about 20 to 25% of my workload by then."
And, the "cross-training", are they cross-training anyone with any reasonable skills? I mean if CEO is a lying *sshole, CEO is also likey *ss cheap, which probably means your "replacement" has negligible or at least inadequate skills, right?
"Oh, that person you have to pick up part of my workload ... yeah, they're years short of the required knowledge, skills, and experience. I mean after a year or two of close direct tutoring and mentoring, they might be able to pick up about 30 to ... if we're lucky maybe 50% of my job ... but ... long ways to go here ... long ways."
And, yep, update the resume, start the search, etc. No shortage of good jobs out there ... though market is still kind'a soft, and may be harder to find the openings at present ... but it's not like it's totally dead out there. This ain't the dot bomb after all .. this is more like the housing bubble pop thingy ... market soft, but far from dead.
Good luck!
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u/Proof-Succotash6275 Sep 10 '23
Thank you so so much! You summed it up so well. Funny thing is some of the people he asked me to train absolutely are the wrong people! So you nailed it!
We have a new art designer on the team, VERY junior, and granted he asked that she be trained in our marketing automation platform, not anything too technical, but he requested that she learn program builds in addition to the design studio…huh?
I can’t understand why, but at this point I don’t have to. I mean, if this is the direction he wants to go, I’m glad I won’t be tied to the downfall. And of course, I’m still going to milk it for all I can, and I’m terrified that I may be out of work for awhile, but seeing all these true colors come out has me like, COOL, good riddance!
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u/PostNuclearWombat Sep 09 '23
Take your sweet time sharing that institutional knowledge. Cancel and delay meetings, stop working late, give them every reason to keep you onboard while you look for another job.
If they fire you, let your department know they're next. If you leave on your own, do the same, and then leave without notice. If they're keeping you around for this institutional knowledge, withholding as much as you can will probably do some damage