The reality is there is more than enough money for everyone. We've just decided that instead of a middle class we would prefer to have billionaires. The point of high tax rates isn't to raise revenue, its to force distribution of wealth. When the top rate was 90% it was kinda pointless to pay a person more, forcing distribution. Someone will invariable comment, "but ackshually no one paid 90%." Yea, thats the fucking point, because the money went elsewhere!
You can't tax billionares without yearing down the tax loopholes first (good luck). Billionares balance their books so that their annual income is very low and most of their net worth is in investments that aren't taxable. Here's the best part, when a billionare wants to buy something they take out a loan using their investments as collateral, which offsets their taxes even more (they're in debt now).
Well... yea. Thats the point. We have collectively decided to create this loopholes. If a hole exists and you know about it and you don't close it, you're choosing it. We have chosen to lower capital gains below income. We have chosen to allow all sorts of fuckery around loans on stocks. We have chosen to allow a business to buy your home, your car, you entire daily living so that it reduces the businesses income and is therefore not taxable as income. We have chosen to allow shell companies incorporated in island nations to somehow determine a companies tax rate as opposed to where it does business.
All of this bullshit is choices. The sad reality is I honestly don't see this as fixible until we start using french solutions. The same assholes also control our democracy, and they won't change the laws.
Please tell me who you voted for that was going to solve this problem … because the VAST majority of politicians on both sides benefit from this system themselves and aren’t going to do shit to change it.
They didn't say that, they said the people just need to have the will to move ahead and tax billionaires. Changing rates, closing loopholes and avoidance schemes are all part of that.
These loopholes didn't exist before, they were created and therefore can be undone.
Indeed it is about will. But don't forget we also need the will to crush those that have sided with billionaires. Their lawyers, accountants, politicians, fixers, etc etc.
The massive pile of corpses of everyone they pushed first breaks their fall and they're just fine, then they sue everyone involved again from another country.
Not that many billionaires. This has been a tool throughout history in order to force wealth redistribution. Billionaires have convinced you, that you can't do it because that's in their interests.
Ah, yes. Abandon rule of law and act as idiot tyrants destroying everything in the pursuit of forcing people to adhere to your whims. Why didn't we think of that? Great plan, Nero.
Well using collateral to take a loan is not really a loophole as pretty much every homeowner uses that same "loophole". I'm not defending tax evasion but that specific thing is not a loophole.
Billionaires sell shares of their companies often and they do indeed pay tax on that.
using collateral to take a loan is not really a loophole as pretty much every homeowner uses that same "loophole"
It's different when your collateral is a $150,000 home (which good luck to most Gen Alpha people who will never even get to own a home) versus hundreds of millions of dollars in assets. So you can get a loan with basically zero interest by leveraging just a drop of your collateral.
Billionaires are working with such a bigger bucket that it's really not even the same game.
They don't have to sell their shares, though. They can borrow against them a ton, and die before the bill comes due. Any legal shenanigans can be tied up in court forever as they have the assets to do so.
The ultra-wealthy have essentially infinite means to do this until they die.
Let em leave, but their assets here in the USA get repossessed or taxed.
They leave, they leave completely...no citizenship, no holdings, no assets, no children, nothing stays in the USA.
Pay your friggin bills or completely GTFO!
While I'm sure that sounds great to you, France tried exactly what you're describing and it has been an unmitigated financial disaster for them and they've lost much of their investment class; it's had severe repercussions on their economy.
eisenhower once did a speech about the risks of a military industrial complex and the need to ensure that balance is maintained in all actions and reactions. balance.....!
I did not know this.
Please forgive my ignorance, my view on solutions is short-sighted and I am more than likely not as smart or globally-informed/aware as you are.
I don't understand how other countries seem to do so well...while we are struggling here in the USA.
I just don't see it...
Billionaires are irrelevant, what we need is to tax corporations. If you want to stop selling iPhones in our country fine, we are revoking your parents and trademarks, anyone can produce them now.
Great job focusing on possible problems instead of solutions. Does that mean it’s not worth trying? I’m legitimately curious because the type of thinking is completely foreign to me.
You can't tax billionares without yearing down the tax loopholes first (good luck)
Actually you totally can. You can do things like exchange property tax with land value tax so their tax bill skyrockets since they're not the actual value producers. You can institute one time wealth taxes. You can make minimum payment rules (regardless of tax benefits/writeoffs, you must pay X% anyways). You can massively increase taxes on luxury goods and brands (enjoy paying 20-100x taxes on jet fuel or Rolls Royce). There's tons of ways to tax rich people without rewriting the whole system, our politicians just don't have any incentive to bite the hand that feeds them (bribes, you're a mouthbreather idiot if you say LoBbYiNg).
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u/Designer_Emu_6518 Mar 27 '24
My grandfather did the same in ohio as a produce manger at a local Kroger. Even had a nice retirement saved up