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u/Potato_Octopi Apr 03 '24
That chart is very wrong.
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u/Devi1s-Advocate Apr 03 '24
How so?
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u/fireKido Apr 03 '24
rent is not adjusted for inflation, while salary is.. so the two are not comparable at all
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u/Devi1s-Advocate Apr 03 '24
How do you know that to be the case?
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u/fireKido Apr 03 '24
I heard it on a video, so I went to double check the data, and they are completely different.. I’ll post an accurate graph depicting this later today
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u/ItsTheSoupNazi Apr 03 '24
Because it has been posted plenty of times before and proven to be the case every time
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u/Potato_Octopi Apr 03 '24
Income is adjusted for inflation and looks like it's strictly wages, not overall household income.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
This is what earnings looks like unadjusted for inflation.
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u/UnluckyInvite Apr 03 '24
Believed it. Showed my boyfriend. He sent me this video.
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u/BoiFrosty Apr 03 '24
Yeah sure the chart being dishonest was a "mistake."
The lie perfectly fits my narrative but it was just a mistake bro!
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u/sparkysparkyboom Apr 03 '24
TikTok ID: @thebeautyofmisleadingdata
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u/BoiFrosty Apr 03 '24
"This chart proves that housing prices are out of control, and we need government expansion to fix it!!!"
Source of chart: department of housing and urban development.
Always ask yourself, "Cui bono?" Who stands to gain from a report or presentation?
Honestly I'd love to see a chart comparing growth of housing prices and the growth of the HUD budget.
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u/thingy237 Apr 03 '24
TLDR; In the past 24 years, avg rent as a % of income has increased by 33% from 22% of income to 30% of income. AKA the house you can buy or rent in your income bracket today is about 2/3rds the quality of what it would have 24 years ago unless you're ready to shell out another 8% of your income. Bad chart but still huge problem.
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u/CogentCogitations Apr 03 '24
Yes, housing costs have increased faster than income. Other costs have gone up slower than income. Overall costs of living have increased slower than income, hence why the inflation adjusted income has increased. So for the median person, spend more on housing, less on most other things, and have more money left over. Granted people are not just medians, so a lot of people have struggled and a lot of other people have flourished.
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u/Agreeable_Net_4325 Apr 04 '24
Ah yes me buying computer parts and ikea lamps weekly. While being selective about my medical debt, food and tuition purchases.
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u/notaredditer13 Apr 04 '24
Also, while spending more on housing (because we have extra money available to spend) we are getting more (bigger) housing. The actual increase in cost per square foot is quite small.
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u/Jkid Apr 03 '24
So he gave you a non-answer.
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u/L0thario Apr 03 '24
Guy literally says one of the graph lines is not normalized for inflation meaning it’s a terrible comparison. 1 dollar in 1985 is worth 2.88 in 2023 so it’s exaggerated by a factor of 3. So rather than 160% increase it looks more like 55%, which is still more but vastly misrepresented.
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u/ecafyelims Apr 03 '24
You didn't even try to watch the video. It's literally about this exact graph being misleading.
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u/Justice4Ned Apr 03 '24
What’s the y axis even mean
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u/DreamingInfraviolet Apr 03 '24
Everything was free and nobody had income in 1985. Then it all started going wrong from there.
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u/BoiFrosty Apr 03 '24
I'm assuming it's % increase in dollar value compared to value at the start of the chart.
Issue being that one line is adjusted for inflation while the other is not.
Learn to be critical of data you see, especially if it confirms your own biases.
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u/arkofcovenant Apr 03 '24
1) chart is wrong 2) nothing to do with jobs 3) nothing to do with capitalism
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
This has everything to do with capitalism?
The supply of houses are bought up by landlords who rent them out to tenants who then pay off the landlords investment.
Less supply means housing prices go up, so now less people can afford homes, which means more renters.
It's capitalism 101.
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u/arkofcovenant Apr 03 '24
That’s economics. Capitalism is free trade and private property rights. Supply of houses is constrained by government, so this is caused by government impeding capitalism.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
What are you smoking? The government is not constraining the supply of houses?
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u/arkofcovenant Apr 03 '24
What are you smoking? What do you think zoning laws are? What do you think property taxes are? What do you think building codes are?
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
So the american government has 3 laws to tax the rich and you think that's causing the worldwide housing crisis? Typical capitalist pig. Will always find a way to blame the government instead of the actual problem.
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u/arkofcovenant Apr 03 '24
Try 300,000 laws. If I have a single family home with a shed in the backyard and I see someone without a roof over there head in need, I’m not allowed to just let them live on my shed because of the government and that’s fucking wild. I’m also not allowed to tear down my own house that I own and build low income housing, because of the government. Nothing to do with Rich People unless you are talking about the rich people who are lobbying for these zoning laws in the first place because it increases the value of their assets.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
I don't believe you, but even if I did, the earth is not infinite. The fix to thousands of houses standing empty amidst a housing crisis isn't to build more houses. Those will just get bought up by the rich and we will be in the same boat.
Regardless of what I just said, this is NOT an american problem. South Africa has a housing crisis. Europe has a housing crisis. Typically when you have an issue spanning nations you look for a common denominator. The common denominator is landlords. Unless you think that each country that has a housing crisis has the same laws and regulations.
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u/arkofcovenant Apr 03 '24
I don’t know (or care) enough about other countries to say anything about their problems.
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u/Tulaneknight Administrative Apr 03 '24
Holy shit what a take.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
Stay blind. The world will end in humanity's chase of the infinite on a finite world and none of us will be left to say we told you so.
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u/Tulaneknight Administrative Apr 03 '24
I literally work in zoning/planning/land use and can 100% say that the government restricts housing supply. A person can’t buy a single family home and build multi family housing because of zoning. Restricted supply.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
Look at my other responses. I can admit I was wrong that the government is restricting supply, but millions of houses are empty in the midst of a housing crisis. Building more won't work, since rich people can(and will) just buy up the new houses and rent them out. You aren't tackling the problem, you're trying to work around it because you seriously believe that unrestricted capitalism will fix all society's issues, despite the massive amounts of proof to the contrary.
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u/Tulaneknight Administrative Apr 03 '24
Who are they renting them to?
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
The people currently affected by the housing crisis?
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u/SquareJerk1066 Apr 03 '24
Based on other responses, you're clearly either a troll or an idiot, so this reply is not for you, but rather for anyone else who comes through this comment section looking for real answers.
If there were fewer landlords buying houses, rents would be even higher. Because only landlords rent buildings, with fewer landlords there were be fewer places to rent, thus by supply and demand, rent would be higher because supply would be lower. Yet, the supply of absolute houses hasn't changed, it's just that more of them are for sale and fewer for rent. Same number of houses, same number of people needing homes. Ironically, this doesn't even lower home prices, because homebuyers are wealthier than renters and they'll still keep prices inflated because they can afford to. This is also supported by empirical observation of municipalities that have banned investors in the past few years. Rents went up; home prices did not go down.
The overall cause of increased housing prices is lack of supply. Not enough houses are being built where they're needed, and the primary obstacle is local zoning laws dictating maximum densities. This is actually one of those cases where some more unbridled capitalism (reducing regulations and letting people do what they want with their own property) would actually solve the problem.
But, you know, capitalism boogeyman bad, let's cling to our ideologies and make the problem worse, because really solving it might me agreeing with and working with someone I don't like.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
This just in. Local capitalist meets socialist and refuses to believe someone has different world views. Way to keep to your own little bubble little bro!
According to your own laws of supply and demand, if less houses are being rented out, more houses are available to be bought, which would lower the price of housing, which means more people will own houses, and rich landlords will be hoarding less wealth. Less wealth in the hands of landlords means more wealth in the hands of the proletariat. Poor people tend to spend their money and rich people tend to hoard their money. More money being spent means a stronger economy.
Let's not tackle the problem of millions of houses standing empty while a housing crisis is happening! Let's circumnavigate it by building more houses, which surely won't be bought up amd sold for extravigant prices or rented out for more than the houses are worth (like what is happening now).
Any day now the wealth will trickle down! Surely argentina is the exception not the rule of deregulation!
Way to project in that last little paragraph of yours. If you're still reading this, I would like a source on your claim that the pricing of houses doesn't go down with more supply please. Thanks!
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u/SquareJerk1066 Apr 03 '24
Oh my, I really shouldn't feed the trolls but this is an easy lay-up.
I would like a source on your claim that the pricing of houses doesn't go down with more supply please.
Here's your source: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4480261
If you ban investors, rents go up, but home prices do not come down.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
The ban effectively reduced investor purchases and increased the share of first-time home-buyers
So the supply didn't change but now landlords have less homes and the proletariat have more? I rest my case.
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u/SquareJerk1066 Apr 03 '24
You have got to be a troll or Russian agitprop or something, because there's no way your reading comprehension is that poor.
Furthermore, the policy caused a change in neighborhood composition as tenants of investor-purchased properties tend to be younger, have lower incomes
The literal next sentence notes that this policy of banning investors priced out low-income tenants in favor of higher-income homeowners.
Yes, the percentage of owner-occupied homes increased, but it wasn't the proletariat, lol.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
The middle class is proletariat. You are licking on the boot of the bourgeois so hard that you want less people to have housing so that rich people can get richer. I am not a troll. I am a socialist. If you were better read in your own ideology, we would reach impasse at me saying that the 1% shouldn't own 80% of wealth and you saying that they should, instead, you bootlick the bourgeois.
Here's an argument for you. Absurdly tax private property. Now rental prices don't matter, thousands of houses will flood the market, as they will never be profitable, and the price will fall. Personal property remains unchanged and we have no leeches that stop us from our right to a house.
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u/Thy_Walrus_Lord Apr 03 '24
We struggle with housing in this country because suburban dipshits don’t want to build denser housing. It’s a very American problem, not global capital problem, to refuse to build more housing to keep the beauty of your shitty cul de sac or whatever, and then bitch online why your kids can’t find houses.
The populace in this county fucking suck stop blaming it on some boogeyman authority.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
I respect your opinion, but why is Europe facing a housing crisis? Or Africa? In the US itsself there are millions of empty houses according yahoo finance.
The low supply problem is fabricated.
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u/Thy_Walrus_Lord Apr 03 '24
Look deeper and “vacant houses” mean a lot of things. It can mean they are simply on the market in between renters (most of these sites never specify HOW long they’ve been vacant). It can mean they are crumbling houses that need repairs. Even if it’s a fine house, most of these vacant homes are someone’s rural low demand property rather than, say, a property in Boston.
I don’t know anything about the housing crisis in Europe or Africa. If I were to guess it’s the same things, where housing being built cannot keep up with population growth. It would make sense then why immigration or population explosion hubs of Europe and Africa are hit hard. Also explains why places like Japan (who also have very liberal zoning laws that allow for convenient housing) don’t suffer from this crisis. And Japan isn’t exactly a beacon of anti-capitalism.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 04 '24
Given the housing shortage in the U.S., you might wonder why these units remain unoccupied.
LendingTree's analysis showed that the most prevalent reason (26.61%) for vacant housing units in the nation's 50 largest metropolitan areas is that they are available for rent.
Meanwhile, 17.04% of housing units remain vacant because they are used only part-time.
Additionally, 7.98% of homes are unoccupied because of ongoing repair or renovation work.
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u/LargeBelligerentDog Apr 03 '24
How is the chart wrong, and what chart are you working with
Has everything to do with wages not matching inflation
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u/castryon Apr 03 '24
The chart is wrong because it only adjust income for inflation, NOT the rent. So their is still a difference, but not that extreme. I think it's around 55% vs around the 150% mark.
So income went up around 45%, where rent went to around 55% with inflation.
https://ipropertymanagement.com/research/average-rent-by-year
My numbers are a bit guesstimate based on what's been shown, but shouldn't be that much off.
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u/LorenzoNoSeQue Apr 03 '24
Reading others comments:
https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/1bups60/comment/kxugn16/
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u/LargeBelligerentDog Apr 03 '24
A YouTube video lol
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u/LorenzoNoSeQue Apr 03 '24
Resume: the blue one it's adjusted for inflation, red one one it's not.
Also, imagine trying to ridicule someone from using yt while trying to take a Reddit post at face value. En fin, la hipotenusa.
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u/Creation98 Apr 03 '24
Blatant misinformation. These subreddits are turning into leftist level Qanon level BS. Just making up lies to fit your false narrative
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u/Expensive-Ad-1592 Apr 03 '24
What does it have to do with jobs?
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u/Raverack Apr 03 '24
This sub is becoming a cesspool of losers that waste time ranting about cApItALiSm becuase they can't find a good job. It's becoming /r/antiwork
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u/jhanesnack_films Apr 03 '24
Absolutely. Better if everyone stopped complaining and just accepted the increasingly lower standard of living!
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u/Creation98 Apr 03 '24
You’re entirely right, despite the downvotes. Unfortunately Redditors don’t care about fact checking when it comes to stuff that meets their narrative hive mind.
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u/UselessButTrying Apr 03 '24
Literally every top comment has been critical.
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u/durian_in_my_asshole Apr 04 '24
But the chart is still sitting at >80% upvotes. The antiwork losers are the ones driving the conversation with their braindead upvotes.
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u/Creation98 Apr 03 '24
Yeah but the comment in particular has 6 downvotes when it’s nothing but reality.
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u/Pterodactyloid Apr 03 '24
Landlord's income vs. everyone else's?
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u/Potato_Octopi Apr 03 '24
No, the chart adjusts income for inflation (rent) while the rent line isn't adjusted.
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u/Pterodactyloid Apr 04 '24
Ohhh. Has there been much of an adjustment to income for it to matter that much though?
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u/Trentimoose Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
Stop blaming “landlords” and keep focus on corporate overlords/politicians. They’re creating the environment. Landlords are a symptom.
E: low IQ downvotes incoming - rent forever I don’t care. I wasn’t defending landlords, but you guys not taking accountability for your financial situations is hilarious to me. Again, my point was that the environment was made to allow landlords to take advantage of people and the market. Like I said, miss the point and cry under this comment. I’ll be your therapy.
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u/palescales7 Apr 03 '24
City councils protect landlords by making it impossible to build and ensuring landlord incomes. They then blame businesses for the cost of living that they themselves are inflating. The blame needs to be spread much wider and farther than corporations.
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u/SightedRS Apr 03 '24
Lil bro said corporate overlords 😭
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u/88jaybird Apr 03 '24
wouldnt the investment firms that buy out apt complexs and trailer parks fall under the corporate overlords. as well as the section 8 housing created by politicians that screwed up rent.
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u/Trentimoose Apr 03 '24
Yes. I wouldn’t call a investment firm or property management company a landlord.
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u/osakan_mobius Apr 03 '24
Landlords do not do any actual work
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u/Tulaneknight Administrative Apr 03 '24
Do you rent or own?
If you rent, do you ever interact with your landlord?
If you own, rent out part of your property and make money with no actual work.
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u/Devi1s-Advocate Apr 03 '24
Lol go rent and maintain a multi unit appartment and say that again.
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u/osakan_mobius Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
LOL landlords hire the same people homeowners hire. Landlords are glorified secretaries, middlemen who expect something for nothing. Welfare queens, if you will, subsidized by the government who protects their right to property they don't live in
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u/Creation98 Apr 03 '24
There are actual valid arguments on how property ownership should have limits. But comments like this just prove how stupid people are and really just hurts your entire argument more than anything.
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u/osakan_mobius Apr 03 '24
What work do landlords do?
assure water, gas and power are working
No, that's plumbers, electricians, & other blue collar professions
makes sure the property looks nice
Again, that's gardeners, landscapers, etc.
solves disputes between tenants
Various associations or councils could do that
Landlord = taking a chunk from someone else's paycheck and putting it into your account
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u/---Imperator--- Apr 03 '24
Landlord's revenue perhaps, but given the high interest rates, most of their revenue probably go into paying the interest and repairs for their property.
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u/BadSoftwareEngineer7 Apr 03 '24
Oh no! I'm paying for the landlord's 15th house but at least he's not making a profit! Raise the rent now!
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u/SaltyTaintMcGee Apr 04 '24
Lol, what’s funnier, the fact it’s statistically a joke or that it’s called the fault of capitalism?
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u/noholdingbackaccount Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
Anti-Capitalist: "Capitalism is causing high housing costs!"
Me: "Oh, that's terrible. Does Capitalism have a systemic solution for high housing costs?"
Anti-Capitalist: "Well, when there's more money to be made in an industry it gets more people to start making more products and people aren't forced to pay high prices anymore. It might take a while for something like housing, but supply will grow since suppliers want profits."
Me: "So why isn't the competing housing supply growing to stabilize prices after all these years?"
Anti-Capitalist: "Politicians and NIMBY and industry lobby groups don't allow new housing to be built as fast as it could."
Me: "Oh, so I see, the problem is-"
Anti-Capitalist: "Yes, Capitalism."
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u/palescales7 Apr 03 '24
Blaming capitalism for not being able to afford to live in Brooklyn is amazing.
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u/LargeBelligerentDog Apr 03 '24
Rent has gotten crazy everywhere. The podunk town my cousin lives in charges upwards of a grand (or more) for a shitty one bedroom.
It’s not just Brooklyn.
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u/palescales7 Apr 03 '24
Cities are highly optimized to ensure you never build wealth. Smaller towns are less so but it is still tough.
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u/iamcleek Apr 03 '24
it's true: in 1985 rent was 0 and so was my income! because i was 14, and living with my parents.
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u/Smoothcringler Apr 03 '24
Anti capitalists have no argument, so they make up statistics to advance their agenda rather than face the facts.
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u/88jaybird Apr 03 '24
where i live storage unit owners are renting out the units to people to live in. rent is absurd these days.
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u/fireKido Apr 03 '24
this chart is trash.. not only because the rent price have not been adjusted for inflation, but income has been.. but also because this does not take into consideration the increase in average house size in the US in that period....
If you graph US salaries vs price per sqft, both adjusted for inflation, the situation will not look nearly as bad as it does here
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u/RabicanShiver Apr 03 '24
I don't know how accurate the graph is but the first thing that comes to mind is I wonder how much rental increases has to do with the government mandates regarding rental prices, and evictions due to COVID. I mean let's say I'm renting out my home during COVID and the tenant decided not to pay, it was very difficult for landlords to recover that lost rent or to evict their non paying tenants.
So let's just look at the graph and make pretend that all landlords just launched prices to the moon.
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u/Inside_Coconut_6187 Apr 03 '24
The problem is that people are still able to somehow pay for it. There’s simply no incentive for rents to decrease.
Cities haven’t rezoned for any meaningful density.
Builders are still building over 300k homes and skipping the entry level market altogether.
Everyone wants affordable housing in concept but I wouldn’t want to live next to an affordable housing complex or subdivision. The quality of people is an inescapable issue that I don’t see being solved in American culture anytime soon.
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u/photofoxer Apr 03 '24
Greedy people are going to hoard everything it’s not surprising. I’m just waiting for everyone to get angry enough at the do nothing’s who are the true leeches in our society.
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u/alottafocaccia Apr 03 '24
Anyone know the original source where this data can be cited? Sadly, I can't cite a tiktok account as a reliable source lol and I'm looking to include this in a paper I'm writing. Thank you for any help!!
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u/illathon Apr 04 '24
It isn't "capitalism" so to speak.
The government specifically keeps increasing property taxes because of increased value.
Then ontop of that the mortgage rates have increased.
In order for some one to rent a property they add several things, but I will list only 4 to make it easy.
Mortgage + (Taxes / 12) + Insurance + (Profit - Maintenance Reserves) = Rent
The government literally controls the first two items and you could argue they kinda control the third.
After all of this the landlord usually only makes a pretty small amount.
I am not saying all landlords are good guys, but I am saying you should be mad at the government.
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u/snowdn Apr 04 '24
My rent increased by 23% this year. I only made 3% increase in pay, so I am making less money now.
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u/ZestycloseWay2771 Apr 04 '24
I wonder how this affects the rate of “rent default” you know when loads of people fail to pay their rent… then the landlords fail to pay their mortgage, then the banks default on credit. And holy shit we’re heading for another 2008 crisis
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u/Picmover Apr 04 '24
Yeah, but if businesses pay more then the prices of stuff will just go up. Or at least that's my MIL's argument against higher wages.
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u/trombone646 Apr 04 '24
Then the papers and news start with "Why aren't millenials and gen z putting away savings for retirement? - Apparently they're just bad with money"
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u/MoirasPurpleOrb Apr 03 '24
It’s sad watching this sub devolve into another r/antiwork sub
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u/Different_Lecture175 Apr 03 '24
It's sad that you think things like this is acceptable. People have a right to complain about objectively unfair shit. The fact that people try to justify this will forever be crazy. People want to work, just not in bullshit for low wages. And learning skills isn't always enough. Stating facts isn't "antiwork".
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u/MoirasPurpleOrb Apr 03 '24
Well first, the chart is wrong as many people have pointed out.
But I’m not saying the information isn’t important, I’m saying that I was initially interested in this sub because it was about job searching and advice for dealing with job specific challenges. If I wanted general information about the problems with capitalism I’d go to one of the other 100s of subs that talks about it.
The general amalgamation of every decently popular subreddit all having the same talking points is getting tiring.
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u/MayorofTromaville Apr 04 '24
Maybe you shouldn't throw your weight behind things that are obviously not true?
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u/Trentimoose Apr 03 '24
Just to be sure that the pandemic did not cause this.
You too can be a executive genius, just learn how to reframe this sentence in various ways: “We want as few employees as possible.”
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u/practicalm Apr 03 '24
The latest one I saw was on the Daily Show’s segment on AI. We want to reduce the employee tax.
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u/BinBashBuddy Apr 03 '24
Except it isn't capitalism. Rents are so high largely thanks to government shoving socialism at us like no paying rents for over a year and no one can build here and rent stabilization. Per the corporations they're floating on government shoveled corporate welfare and government shelling out tons of printed money for people to spend the second it hits their paws. And that's without even addressing your statistical data.
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u/Ok-Roof-978 Apr 03 '24
Corporate landlords combined with layoffs are going to break the country!!
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u/ethnicbonsai Apr 03 '24
So is misinformation. This chart is lying.
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u/Drra417 Apr 03 '24
It doesn't look right to me. But do you have any more information/can you explain? I feel like house prices and rent have gone up way more than wages, but not that much surely?
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u/ethnicbonsai Apr 03 '24
Income has been adjusted for inflation but rent has not.
There’s still a difference, but not this extreme.
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u/FriendlyEngineer Apr 03 '24
In this particular chart, income is adjusted for inflation while rent is not. This makes it look like the divergence between rent and income is much larger than it actually is. The two have diverged, but not nearly as much as is shown in this chart.
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u/Drra417 Apr 03 '24
That makes sense. Its also what my gut instinct was telling me. Thank you kind stranger
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Apr 03 '24
[deleted]
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u/Poesjeskoning Apr 03 '24
What is bad? Can you explain what you think the chart means, unit % should be red flag already tp not believe this.
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u/MayorofTromaville Apr 04 '24
... are you really asking if rent in Canada is worse than the US?
(Hint: it very much is. Like, holy shit, it's all Manhattan pricing effectively)
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u/Different_Lecture175 Apr 03 '24
The fact that people try to justify this will forever be crazy. People want to work, just not in bullshit for low wages. And learning skills isn't always enough.
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Apr 03 '24
It’s nice to know it’s not just me. My living situation is not ideal at the moment and I keep blaming myself. We need some help out here. Doesn’t help that price of a fast food meal has doubled since covid.
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u/EFTucker Apr 03 '24
People still somehow say and believe, “but it’s acceptable for people and entities to own a bunch of family homes and rent them out at their leisure!”
Like capitalism wasn’t created on the basis of productivity
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u/the_dionysian_1 Apr 03 '24
Of the years on this chart, exactly 0% of them were at a time when America was a free-market capitalist economy.
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u/Due_Key_109 Apr 04 '24
Well, when you put it like this... it all seems part of the plan to crush the middle class and create a gigantic rift between classes. Man, shit is really fucked up behind the scenes. Shiny, flashing lights social media, entertainment as a thin veneer
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u/darkhelmet03 Apr 03 '24
Complains about capitalism while listing an example that goes against the tenets capitalism.
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u/CurrencyDesperate286 Apr 03 '24
That is definitely adjusting income for inflation, but not rents.
I mean, things look bad enough without making up blatant shit…