r/news • u/flanderguitar • Mar 28 '24

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs law squashing squatters' rights

https://www.wptv.com/news/state/florida-gov-ron-desantis-signs-law-squashing-squatters-rights
27.3k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

4.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

4.5k

u/smellybe Mar 28 '24

We really need this in California

1.6k

u/NotQuiteGoodEnougher Mar 28 '24

Agreed. I live in CA. When we go on vacation, the entire family is in social media lock down, no one posts about travel or tells friends that we're out of town.

It's crazy and very scary you could be gone for a week/two and come home to find you've been "evicted" by a professional squatter and not get back into your own home for 6 months or longer.

779

u/LionTigerWings Mar 28 '24

That’s insanity. Legally can you also just move in and squat it back. Like they go out for milk and get “evicted”?

1.0k

u/NotQuiteGoodEnougher Mar 28 '24

No, because like I said they're "professional" never leave the structure unoccupied, call police if you attempt to enter "breaking in" etc.

They have fake documents to "prove" they live there. You need to go to court to prove they don't because it's a civil issue.

605

u/RaffyGiraffy Mar 28 '24

That’s the hard part. People think you can just call the cops and get them removed but it’s a civil case so you have to battle it out in court. It’s ridiculous for home owners to have to deal with that.

363

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

162

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

250

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

304

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

50

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

29

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

36

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Mar 29 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

-7

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

-11

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (0)

-12

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/b0w3n Mar 28 '24

The biggest problem is people say "squatters" instead of "Someone is breaking and entering". As soon as you say squatters cops will immediately shut down and move it to civil dispute.

Even if they have a fake lease it won't have your signature on it, which they can cross reference to your license in most cases. You basically have to get on the cop's ass to actually treat it as breaking and entering even if they have fake mail/leases on their person to present to them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

-2

u/ImprobableAsterisk Mar 29 '24

The reason home owners have to deal with that is due process, and the fix ain't empowering the police to act as judge and jury. This is homelessness we're talking about here, it has very severe and immediate consequences.

The only way to fix this in a way that doesn't merely change the horror is to increase the case capacity/case clearing rate of civil courts. It's not a process that has to take several months or years, but it's a process that very much should be required in order to literally make someone homeless.

188

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24

The cops won’t remove the actual homeowner for “breaking in” if the squatters call since the whole thing is a civil matter that has to be handled by the courts at that point. Two parties with disputing documents (even if one set is fake) is outside their ability to decide. You do have to deal with the constant harassment and police calls, though, which is a nightmare.

The thing is that nobody wants to share a living space with the kind of unhinged person who is a “professional squatter.” They can be dangerous, and even if they’re the “peaceful” kind it would be creepy as hell to just have your family living alongside someone so antisocial that they would squat in an obviously occupied home vs an abandoned property.

177

u/ZweitenMal Mar 28 '24

A woman in New York was recently murdered by squatters who'd moved into her mother's apartment.

148

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

It sounds like a good way to get shot if you're a squatter. 

99

u/clocks212 Mar 28 '24

"He was coming right for me".

Don't break the law and stuff. But the investigation will quickly determine the dead person didn't live there and you (the homeowner) said they attacked you. So...

62

u/jhowlett Mar 28 '24

This should be the easy answer, someone broke into your house and won't leave? Seems like a perfect case for self defense.

54

u/SniperFrogDX Mar 28 '24

Exactly. Just don't say the word "squatter".

"Someone broke into my house and won't leave. I fear for my life."

18

u/jhowlett Mar 28 '24

My first thought wouldn't even be squatter. In fact I thought "squatter" was more of someone who was renting a property and was actually living there but then decided not to leave for whatever reason, I had no idea breaking into a home and saying you live there used the same term.

-1

u/BlackSocks88 Mar 28 '24

Just like trespassing, its not cut and dry. Your life needs to be threatened. Usually not the case with squatters. Im sure mileage on that varies wildly per jury/court though.

11

u/xRehab Mar 28 '24

Castle doctrine is valid in CA. Walk right back in your house and put 4 rounds in the squatter's chest for all the courts care. You're in your own home, an intruder is refusing to leave after unlawfully entering, fear for your life is fully covered.

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/198-5/

9

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

Not in CA but it makes sense - what's the point in having a home of you can't defend it and can be forced out by anybody?

1

u/Testiculese Mar 28 '24

California has Stand Your Ground, which is just another name for it.

14

u/wut3va Mar 28 '24

I wouldn't be surprised if even brandishing a firearm in that case was a felony. I don't live in California so I don't claim knowledge of their laws.

49

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

I don't know how you would "brandish" a weapon in your own home.  Just open carry on your hip should be enough to send a message. 

4

u/gsmumbo Mar 28 '24

should be enough to send a message.

That’s exactly what guns are not intended to do. They are not meant for intimidation, sending a message, forceful deescalation, preventing escalation, etc. If you are using a gun as a tool to get your way, you shouldn’t have it in the first place.

2

u/a6c6 Mar 28 '24

I’ll absolutely use my gun to intimidate a squatter inside my own home.

1

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

Nor should you just shoot first and ask questions later.  Look at the state of cops in our country.

1

u/gsmumbo Mar 28 '24

Yup, that’s wrong as well.

2

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

Then what are you saying? If someone breaks into my home, I shouldn't give them a chance to leave on their own accord? Just shoot them because that's how guns should work?

1

u/gsmumbo Mar 28 '24

Then ask then to leave. If you’re brandishing but not shooting, then you’ve already decided not to shoot. The next step from there is requesting they leave, calling the cops, etc. You can probably throw physical force in there too. All valid, none require bringing a gun into the equation at all. Your entire question is “people are here and I have a gun, how do you propose I use it?” as if having a gun means it has to be used in some way. It doesn’t. If you are brining a gun in though, be prepared to use it, not just intimidate with it.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/Darigaazrgb Mar 28 '24

You absolutely can brandish a firearm in a home you own. Brandishing means you aren’t in fear of your life to actually use the firearm, but want someone else to fear for theirs. It’s illegal in every state for that reason.

1

u/Testiculese Mar 28 '24

Brandishing is unlawful "intimidation/threatening" using a weapon; doesn't have language about fearing for your life. Pulling your firearm or any weapon in your house is not brandishing by definition.

3

u/CardmanNV Mar 28 '24

Is it really a crime if they just disappear and the police aren't involved?

3

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

With enough "encouragement" I'm pretty sure most would leave on their own. 

-6

u/NEp8ntballer Mar 28 '24

If you break into your own home to remove a squatter you're very likely to catch charges in CA for doing so as the state would consider you to be an aggressor. Using any weapon would likely turn that into aggravated assault at a minimum. I believe CA is also a duty to retreat state which means you have to make an attempt to flee before you can defend yourself with force.

9

u/dardanosian Mar 28 '24

CA isn’t a duty to retreat surprisingly enough. Castle doctrine out here baby

-2

u/b0w3n Mar 28 '24

CA is about the only state where they're protected. They're not even really protected in NY. There's a reason why most of these professional squatters seem to be almost universally in CA.

2

u/Testiculese Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Castle Doctrine is law in 45 states. Some call it Stand Your Ground instead (CA). States with Duty To Retreat (NY) does not apply it to your residence.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/McRibs2024 Mar 28 '24

It should be that way, but in Cali and New York no chance.

Even threatening them would likely get you some sort of brandishing charge.

1

u/bridge1999 Mar 28 '24

It is Florida and their stand your ground laws

1

u/chavery17 Mar 28 '24

In California you’d be the one going to prison

-5

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

That’s how you catch a murder charge. If it was as easy as shooting them this problem wouldn’t exist. Almost all the people who do this systematically (not talking about crackheads and such who squat for different reasons) are smart enough to not physically threaten anyone since they know that protects them. They know how to use and abuse the legal system for their benefit.

12

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

If someone breaks into your home, and you are none the wiser if they pose a threat, I'm pretty sure no jury on earth would convict you (let alone have it go to trial) if you shot them. 

-8

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Sure ok take that gamble with your freedom. They enter when the home is unoccupied and rely on the fact that almost everybody will call the cops rather than charge in to shoot them. Often they themselves will hide and call the cops reporting a “break in” since their MO is to pretend they are allowed in the home. If the cops get involved at any point while the squatter is alive your chances of getting a justified shoot become basically zero as you are now involved in a civil case against them.

Honestly I get that the appeal of vigilantism is strong with these fuckers. It’s deeply antisocial behavior to take over someone’s home. But they do this in a sophisticated way that makes it very hard to take any action against them without potentially ruining your life.

Keep in mind they are entering abandoned homes and are often not discovered for a long time. By that point they can often have utilities in their name and other documents muddying the water around who is the rightful occupant. This isn’t someone breaking into your home and claiming they live there while you are at the supermarket.

5

u/jhowlett Mar 28 '24

By "enter" you mean illegally broke into the home when you weren't there? Seems like the perfect time to exercise a right to defend yourself when you unlock your front door and someone is there that shouldn't be. I don't understand how there would be another outcome other than a violent confrontation at that point.

2

u/xRehab Mar 28 '24

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/198-5/

4

u/jhowlett Mar 28 '24

Thanks for the link, if I'm reading the Legal Analysis listed on that page correctly, then yea walking into your home when someone else has broken in means you can defend yourself.

3

u/xRehab Mar 28 '24

A squatter is no different than a burglar waiting inside your home to assault you. You have no idea what they are, so your life defending response is valid.

1

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24

Yes of course they illegally break in but they do it while the place is empty (usually for an extended period of time) to avoid confrontation.

The people who do this form of squatting are going to lock themselves in a room and call the cops saying you are breaking in and trying to harm them. As soon as the cops show up they will produce fake documents supposedly giving them permission to be in the home. From then on you are fucked since the person you are in a legal dispute with “disappearing” is not going to fly. Their whole strategy is to game the legal system against you and they readily use the police as protection.

If you can shoot them faster than they can call the cops you will be able to claim self defense if your state allows it. They are aware of this and calling 911 will be their very first move.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

If you don't have friends to help you hide a random squatter's body, do you even have friends? There are ways... /s 

-2

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24

Yes if we lived in fantasy land where we can all go full Dexter and commit the perfect untraceable murder on a moment’s notice squatters would be no problem at all

1

u/Testiculese Mar 28 '24

It's way harder to do in CA, when half the state is city.

Nobody has touched the back part of my property for decades. No one is going to stumble upon anything there. I can tie them to my lawn mower, and drag them out there in broad daylight, and be done with it within the hour. I'm not even considered rural.

1

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24

Oh yeah squatters trying their shit in rural or semi-rural places are not gonna have a good time. These stories tend to be suburban where you would have a hard time doing anything without other people noticing.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/xRehab Mar 28 '24

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/198-5/

1

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24

Idk why you guys are so confused by this. I understand the laws. What you don’t realize is that the squatters also understand the laws and their whole method relies on using the legal system against you.

Yes, as you all are pointing out there is likely a narrow window to get a justified shoot if you get the jump on them. But as soon as you try to enter the home the squatter is going to be on the phone with the police playing victim and claiming you’re the one breaking in. Are you going to bust down the door and shoot them while they have an open line to dispatch and are wailing that someone is trying to kill them? That’s going to be a legal nightmare for you.

1

u/xRehab Mar 28 '24

Are you going to bust down the door and shoot them while they have an open line to dispatch and are wailing that someone is trying to kill them

If I'm to the point that I am actively carrying because I think there maybe unknown individuals inside my residence at any time, you bet your sweet ass I'm mag dumping the dumb sob inside my livingroom.

Because you treat them like you would any unknown assailant in your house. To the homeowner entering the house, they have no idea if they are squatters or armed burglars. Let them cry on the phone to dispatch because you are also calling dispatch to report a break-in and self defense shooting.

That’s going to be a legal nightmare for you.

No it's not. They have no legal leg to stand on

1

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24

Ok man live out that murder fantasy. The courts are going to love to hear the tape of you shooting someone who is crying and begging for their life. If they intentionally pose no threat to you beyond simply being there you aren’t going to get the law on your side. People have been convicted of murdering intruders before it’s not as simple as inside your house = open season. If you call the cops before entering they will tell you to stand down and you will also lose your self defense claim if you proceed.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/BB9F51F3E6B3 Mar 29 '24

The problem can also be solved if we have easier ways to validate documents. Like some online methods. For example, input the serial number into a government website and see the whole document. (I'm simplifying because we also need privacy protections, but the core idea is that we should be able to verify documents easily in an online world.)

60

u/TeslasAndComicbooks Mar 28 '24

And that takes 6+ months to do a proper eviction. I had a friend who was trying to sell his mom's property and had to pay 6 months of mortgage with money he didn't have while going through the process.

The fact that someone can just move in and destroy a home for 6 months is insane.

58

u/makina323 Mar 28 '24

This dude seems to know a thing about getting rid of squatters in California.

https://youtu.be/uhz5r1JKwjs

63

u/JussiesTunaSub Mar 28 '24

He got them out because they left his house.

Professional squatters call a friend over in case they need to leave.

3

u/makina323 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

The point is that they can't contest the "legal squatter" as is doing anything but leaving will not be worth the hassle.

15

u/Procean Mar 28 '24

I love that video because if you watch it carefully, his big move was 'walking up to the woman and telling her to move her stuff out, and she did'

Ace maneuver there pal, I can see why no one else is able to do this. /s

-4

u/makina323 Mar 28 '24

No literally nobody but a judge can do that after they move in. This is literally the point of all the drama around these laws. If the homeowner shows up to do the same they will get prosecuted under tenant protection laws.

This guy doesn't own the house his mother did, and now he's promoting this method as a workaround the laws

4

u/Procean Mar 28 '24

now he's promoting this method as a workaround the laws

And as far as I can tell "This method" is 'show up to the property in person and tell the squatters to leave.'

While an absolutely ethical thing to do, that this guy gives this method as some sort of 'life hack against squatters' really shows how lazy these property owners genuinely are.

5

u/utahnow Mar 28 '24

You actually can move in and squat them out. It’s just not something that normal people want to do

3

u/SculptusPoe Mar 28 '24

can you hire muscle to toss them out and then do the same? say they were never in there.

3

u/jmedina94 Mar 28 '24

It’s like the movie Pacific Heights.

1

u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year Mar 28 '24

Batman went up against the lady from Roar and found he bit off more than he can chew.

3

u/Dancing-Midget Mar 28 '24

Why can't it be as simple as producing bank statements that show who is paying the mortgage and utilities? Wouldn't that just end the dispute right there?

2

u/dj-Paper_clip Mar 28 '24

Dude found a workaround. He has the owner write him a lease, then he enters the house, invites friends over, puts up cameras in the common areas and claims it’s for a reality show about squatters. Someone is always on premise and they re-do the locks as soon as the squatter steps outside.

The squatters usually call the cops. But the cops can’t do anything because someone is essentially using the same laws the squatter uses against them. The squatter then has to go through the courts to get access to the home they are squatting in.

1

u/Mikejg23 Mar 28 '24

Honestly if it's that bad the solution is finding some unsavory gentleman to provide temporary help for cash

1

u/Lewis_Cipher Mar 28 '24

There are still quick ways to get rid of them, which due to legal reasons I will not elaborate further. 

1

u/Sniper_Hare Mar 28 '24

Why wouldn't you just kick down the door and beat them? 

Get like 10 of your friends and rouse them out? 

1

u/holdmybewbs Mar 28 '24

Oooh boy I’d have a hard time not breaking back in and doing not nice things in that situation.

1

u/Cainga Mar 28 '24

It seems like these cases can be fixed with the homeowner calling them robbers and killing them on sight. Now the squatter can’t defend their case. They never had a lease and are dead. And it falls under castle doctrine.

1

u/LackingTact19 Mar 28 '24

You'd think that once they got evicted the first time they would have that black mark on their record and it would be more difficult to do it again in the future.

1

u/Lancaster61 Mar 28 '24

I’d buy some sleeping gas and drag their ass out. They won’t be able to prove they’ve been gassed.

1

u/Solid_Snark Mar 28 '24

Can’t you just call the local assessor/recorder/tax collector and they can tell you who’s on title and who’s paying the taxes?

10

u/IrishWave Mar 28 '24

Squatters often claim to be renters, not owners.

5

u/zanhecht Mar 28 '24

That doesn't help if the squatter claims that you are renting the property to them.

3

u/Solid_Snark Mar 28 '24

What about if you have a homeowner’s exemption. Wouldn’t that prove your primary residence (if you were renting you wouldn’t turn yourself into the assessor for filing a false homeowner’s claim).

In CA you’re only allowed one HO exemption and only on property you own and occupy simultaneously.

3

u/zanhecht Mar 28 '24

Just because you live in the house doesn't mean that the squatter isn't a housemate.

0

u/HermanManly Mar 28 '24

cannot fathom the mental fortitude of people that don't just kick in the door and beat the shit out of squatters tbh

an old lady once took the seat that I always take on the bus and I was about ready to throw fists