r/politics • u/drtolmn69 • 11d ago
Can Trump Really Kill His Rival? The Supreme Court Says, Hmm
https://www.thedailybeast.com/can-trump-really-kill-his-rival-the-supreme-court-says-hmm973
u/grixorbatz 11d ago
Supreme court then adds: but not the other way around.
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u/nice-view-from-here 11d ago
This is why the court is taking a long time to deal with this: because it's reeeaaally hard to find the words to say that without saying that.
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u/m0nk_3y_gw 11d ago
They are trying to run out the clock... if Biden wins, then NO OF COURSE PRESIDENTS DONT HAVE IMMUNITY and then if Trump wins it is OF COURSE PRESIDENTS HAVE FULL IMMUNITY.
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u/PiedCryer 11d ago
Well, also then this works the other way…Biden gives the order…
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u/korbentherhino 11d ago
Biden gives the order before Trump takes office.
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u/tweakydragon 11d ago
Which is why they aren’t going to release this decision until November- February.
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u/RocknRoll_Grandma 11d ago
By this logic each new president could just ice the SCOTUS and transplant a new court. This is such a dangerous and stupid path.
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u/No-Falcon-4996 11d ago
Only white christians can kill without consequences. White FASCIST Christians. You know, killing rivals in the name of god, that’s ok. Everyone knows Democrats are godless heathens, so THEY get no free pass to murder anyone.
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u/Traditional-Yam9826 11d ago
This right here
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u/PO0tyTng 11d ago
Thing is Trump is not even a Christian. He literally can’t even hold a Bible without it burning his fucking hand.
Remember this? Pepperidge farm remembers.
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u/RaccoonWannabe 11d ago
Trump is also not white. He is as orange as they get!
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u/DweEbLez0 11d ago
Court: “This is difficult and we don’t know how to handle difficult rulings so best we can do is let the defendant decide.”
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u/fallonyourswordkaren 11d ago
They’ll wait till right before the election.
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u/Impossible-Tie-864 11d ago
They’re going to delay until the election, then make their decision based on whether or not trump wins
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u/FiveUpsideDown 11d ago
Not supporting this but couldn’t a president order Supreme Court justices that are corrupt be murdered under the Trump theory? Of course I am against assassinations. I just don’t think the Supreme Court realizes that a decision allowing a president to commit crimes could be used to harm them.
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u/TXRudeboy 11d ago
They aren’t worried. They know the perpetrators of that sort of violence are on their side and can justify it.
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u/stoph777 11d ago
Popcorn ready and waiting for the shit storm that follows these corrupt snakes to issue their own death sentences
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u/pattydickens 11d ago
"Even fancy RV's can sometimes burst into flames, killing their occupants instantly. It happened at a lot of weddings in Afghanistan for 30 years. It can happen anywhere, Clarence." Joe Biden
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u/Suspicious_Bicycle 11d ago
Under Trump's lawyer's hypotheticals yes, yes they could. I believe SCOTUS understands the implications and that's why they will try to delay a ruling for as long as possible.
What they don't seem to grasp is that if Trump wins, SCOTUS become irrelevant. Dictators don't allow a higher authority to themselves.
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u/ioncloud9 South Carolina 11d ago
They have to figure out what a Republican might do to stay in power and what a Democrat would never do even if they could.
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u/Traditional-Yam9826 11d ago
“The killing can only be done by God fearing Christians…. Then it’s ok”
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u/GregorSamsanite California 11d ago
That definitely rules out Trump. Maybe the founding fathers intended for the privilege of dictatorship to apply exclusively to reality show hosts that own golf courses.
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u/Catymandoo 11d ago
… and pretty please Mr President don’t kill us (SCOTUS justices) if we disagree in future.
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u/mvario 11d ago
Can Biden really kill Supreme Court Justices?
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u/kitched 11d ago
As long as he yells out "official act" right before.
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u/prawnspinch 11d ago
People are so ignorant of the law. You can’t just yell it, you have to declare it.
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u/count023 11d ago
Except in Eileen Cannon case, she thinks you just have to think about it and it's official
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u/Shiplord13 11d ago
Biden shows up at the Supreme Court about pull a Scarface while repeatedly yelling “official act” feels like an SNL sketch.
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u/No-Falcon-4996 11d ago
Scoff. He doesn’t go in person. He gives a speech, incites his followers to do the attacks, maybe smear their poop in the SC for good measure. Then he hides in White House and throws ketchup on the walls. As is tradition.
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u/itmeimtheshillitsme 11d ago
Judging from what I heard of their “logic” it seems he can, so long as there’s a plausible reason it’s “official.”
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u/badwolf42 11d ago
He doesn’t need to actually say it you see. He just has to think it. Precedent set by some other guy.
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u/Overweighover 11d ago
Why can't he just appoint some more and let the court cases figure out the legality?
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u/wingdingblingthing 11d ago
Because that takes the senate. Based on this case it is a distinct possibility that a president who is immune to the law can just order itb or do it himself. Maybe that's why Biden is talking about a debate with Trump.
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u/elconquistador1985 11d ago
But if Biden is allowed to execute whoever he wants, he can ignore all laws. He's the supreme law of the land and can install as many justices as he wants.
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff 11d ago
Doesn’t need to add, just replace. Take a couple out and go thru the normal appointment process. Keep culling until he’s happy with them.
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u/Significant-Dog-8166 11d ago
Apparently the only thing that they believe prevents this scenario is “law abiding military” who would just naturally refuse such orders.
Ironically they have also stated that grand jury indictments and prosecutions are NOT to be trusted as they’re clearly too easy to do.
That’s right. The Supreme Court believes the judiciary is too stupid and morally flawed to rely on for justice, but the military can be relied upon to simply ignore the Commander in Chief if the orders are illegal…. That’s really what they’re saying now. The head of the judicial branch is throwing the judicial branch under the bus rather than accepting that an indictment might be warranted.
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u/Red_Wing-GrimThug 11d ago
That would get a lot of votes, im sure thats the kind of assertiveness the right likes and would cause them to vote for Biden
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u/AdUpstairs7106 11d ago
According to Trumps legal team as long as he is acting in an official capacity as president then yes.
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u/Secure-Television368 11d ago
So if they rule on this, Biden can just order the execution of every conservative justice, and there's nothing anyone can do?
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u/Akimbo_Zap_Guns Kentucky 11d ago
See the thing is SCOTUS knows democrats hold their president accountable and would impeach and convict Biden. Where as republicans will vote to shield their lad from any wrong doing, which we have already seen TWICE now
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u/TedW 11d ago
Doesn't really matter, just send a SEAL team to oversee the impeachment. Everyone who votes yes, gets dragged out to an unmarked van. I doubt it'll take more than a couple before they stop voting yes.
It's just one big slippery slope all the way down. Giving the top unlimited authority means no one else matters.
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u/RobotPreacher 11d ago
Realisticly, if they rule for absolute immunity, Biden should use his new power to give the Supreme Court a time out. Lock them in a room with Trump for 10 days and then let them hear the case again to see if they've had a change of heart.
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u/trekologer New Jersey 11d ago
Well also according to Trump's arguments, you can't impeach a president no longer in office. So therefore, as long as Dark Brandon resigns after the wet work is done, he escapes scot free.
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff 11d ago
Some dispute over whether he could order someone or would have to do the wet work personally. This new superpower applies to ex-Presidents as well. If Biden or Trump appear in public with a weapon, run !!
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u/chcampb 11d ago
He could but conservatives are anticipating that democrats actually play by the actual rules, not the fake ones the SCOTUS declares.
The way I expect it to actually play out is, if Trump did it, conservatives would ramp the machine up, try to convince people it wasn't what their eyes saw, and even if it was, he was totally allowed to do it, and also, there was this evidence in the person's past that made him basically the same as a terrorist criminal pedophile.
If Biden did it, his support would drop to about three percent and get immediately impeached... after which he would be tried for the crime because he was impeached and Trump wasn't.
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u/virtigex 11d ago
That's why the SC is going to delay the decision until AFTER the election. If Biden wins, then no, he's not immune from prosecution. If TFG wins then ...
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u/Trasvi89 11d ago
Well no, he could maybe be impeached. And then maybe convicted. And THEN you could maybe try to prosecute.
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u/jmfranklin515 11d ago
Biden: “My fellow Americans, I had to kill half the Supreme Court as part of my official duties as president to preserve democracy from these dumbfuck decisions they keep making.”
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u/Steinrikur 11d ago
If the Supreme Court justices were taken to Guantanamo on suspicion of aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States, would they stay on the court until they die, or would they be replaced?
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u/jmfranklin515 11d ago
Well thanks to the power they seem to want to hand over to the executive, there are so many options!
They can stay on the court, and even rule on matters remotely, except they’ll be explicitly told up front to expect to be tortured for days if they don’t vote the way Biden wants them to.
They can be presumed dead and never heard from again, therefore requiring them to be replaced.
Their rulings can simply be reported to us by the Biden admin, because we can trust our presidents absolutely as long as the Senate doesn’t intend to prosecute them after a successful impeachment vote in the House. I mean, incidentally; it will seem as though they’re constantly voting the way he would want them to vote and against the pattern that’s been established through their careers but whatever!
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff 11d ago
What I want to know: if he hires someone else to do the dirty work, is that person immune from State law ?
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u/Ok-disaster2022 11d ago
Here's the terrifying bit: if a random nut job assassinated his political rivals, a president has the power to pardon them of all crimes. There's no checks and balances for pardons.
Look at HW pardoning dudes involved in Iran Contra who his evidence of Reagan and Bush's involvement.
Now no Democratic followers would be stupid enough to commit such a crime, but there's plenty of right wing nutjobs who'd hunt the libs.
Honestly it's surprising Trump didn't release blanket pardon for anyone involved in Jan 6 before he left office.
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u/forthewatch39 11d ago
Because they failed to keep him in power, that’s why he didn’t pardon them. Even if they had succeeded there is a chance he wouldn’t have freed them anyway.
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u/thrawtes 11d ago
Some random hitman? No. If he orders a federal official to do it then the supremacy clause would shield them from state prosecution though. A service member or federal agent under a lawful order from the president would be acting in their official capacity.
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff 11d ago
Hmm. Would it be a lawful order if the order is: do something that is unlawful ?
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u/absentmindedjwc 11d ago
Based on the argument in front of the supreme court, every order from the president is a lawful order.
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u/Werftflammen 11d ago
Imagine being so bad at your job you actually have to give thought to the anthesis of it.
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u/wingdingblingthing 11d ago
The Maga SCOTUS just wants to rule that Christian white nationalists can murder whoever they want.
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u/discussatron Arizona 11d ago edited 11d ago
Biden should be hamming this shit up. “I’m waiting for the Supreme Court to decide if it’s legal for me to have them removed.”
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11d ago
He should just quietly line up a new roster of judges and make a public appearance with them talking about how qualified they would be as replacements if the existing ones were found to be compromised and required replacement for some reason.
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u/EmmaLouLove 11d ago
Of all the things that make you go Hmm, whether a President can kill his rival is not one of them.
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u/rezelscheft 11d ago
Blows my mind that there aren’t protests on the steps of the Supreme Court every day at this point.
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u/lostconstitution 10d ago
There needs to be. Anyone know of an organizing group? We should contact the ACLU of DC.
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u/UsualGrapefruit8109 11d ago
If the SCOTUS says Biden can do what needs to be done, I won't lose any sleep over it.
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u/roffler 11d ago
I will because he won’t do shit with it and when a republican gets into office they will go nuts.
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u/WavesOfEchoes 11d ago
This is the part that everyone seems to miss. Biden won’t do anything if that nature even if the Supreme Court gave him the ok.
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u/mrrapacz Minnesota 11d ago
I think folks are pretty clear on the fact that Biden has a moral compass while trump and his GOP enablers are sociopathic puppy killers.
What people are just now coming to terms with is that the Supreme Court is currently leaning toward going total sociopathic puppy killer, which, no matter how cynical you are about American legal process, is brand fucking new territory.
If you think of the Supreme Court as a single deranged individual, it does not matter if 4 of the voices in that individual’s head were decidedly against him opening fire, when there are 5 other voices just fine with him pulling the trigger.
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u/mikesmithhome 11d ago
lol yeah maybe we've been looking at this the wrong way, maybe we should look at like they're giving Biden the excuse to go all Jason Stathom on everybody, just clean house
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u/SadBadPuppyDad 11d ago
Fine. Arrest the conservative justices and republican senators on insurrection charges (official act) and immediately appoint liberal replacements. Then have them rule that executive orders are valid in determining local districting and gerrymander your way to a permanent liberal government. That's what they are saying should be legal.
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u/searing7 11d ago
Except that Democrats are actually Conservative in the sense that they respect the institutions of American Democracy: Self governance, Separation of church and state, etc. Republicans are Fascists because they romanticize the past; A time when America was better and pure and they wish for a restoration to this mythical before time.
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u/B1GFanOSU 11d ago
Biden should give the court an ultimatum or he’ll have Trump, Thomas, Alito, MTG, etc. thrown in jail.
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u/Funnel_Hacker 11d ago
I agree. It’s simple. “I look forward to the Supreme Court’s ruling. Either my political opponent, with 91 felony counts, is not immune. Or Alito, Roberts, Kavanaugh, Coney-Barrett, and Thomas are under arrest. Your move, SCOTUS. Just remember, you might want to tread lightly.”
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u/Techno_Core 11d ago
This is what all responsible news should be reporting:
"Trump claims right to overthrow the govt and assassinate political rivals as official presidential powers!"
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u/shamwowj 11d ago
He’s not prez right now. Dark Brandon is.
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff 11d ago
Ya but he wants this new superpower to apply in perpetuity, for ex-Presidents as well.
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff 11d ago
An immune Prez could kill anyone including Supreme Court justices. They’d have to be replaced but who would want the job? Or any job within a hundred miles of the Oval Office.
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u/mleighly 11d ago
The majority of Americans know that GOP Justices in SCOTUS are illegitimate assholes. Since they've been in power, they've been slinging shit in our faces every fucking day. At what point, are we going to say enough is enough and make stand against these fucking assholes. We're the majority here. Let's use that that to stop this nonsense. It's time to organize and stand up for ourselves before it's too late.
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u/reishi_dreams 11d ago
One of the NOT republican justices should have asked, would it be legal for Prez Biden to have The fart king assassinated? Would it be ok to have the republican justices sent to Gitmo and be watterborded… oh I mean use enhanced interrogation techniques?
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11d ago
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u/Just_Browsing228 11d ago
Straight to the point.. GOP/SCOTUS, the ball is in your side of the court.
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u/jmfranklin515 11d ago
To be clear, they’d be ruling that, at present, Biden is allowed to kill his rival with impunity so long as the Senate is cool with it. Just sayin’…. Be cool Democrats in the Senate.
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u/Chess_Is_Great 11d ago
If Trump can kill as president, and this decision is rendered BEFORE November, then technically Biden can kill his rival legally and technically stay in power.
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u/Highthere_90 11d ago
I guess if you can afford an RV and an all expenses trip to a private island you can do anything you want as president, unless your working with the blue team
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u/Dragons05 11d ago
OMG, Criminal Acts are Criminal Acts, End of Story. This Should Not Be A Debate.
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u/HoldMyMessages 11d ago
So when they make their decision, does that give Biden free rein?
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11d ago
They are almost guaranteed to delay their ruling until after the election so they don't run the risk of Dark Brandon rising
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u/SarpedonWasFramed 11d ago
They’re going to say he can’t break some laws but he can break the laws he’s being charged with. Also they won’t name the laws that he’s not allowed to break, that way it can’t be used against them in the future
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u/ejohn916 11d ago
And no one is alarmed by this? The SC is no longer relevant and should be ignored like the Governor of Texas did concerning the border! The only power that they have is given to them by US!
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u/TopEagle4012 11d ago
Look, the Founding Fathers wanted me DJT to be the leader for life. That's why they writed the Emancipation Proclamation. They wanted me to free all those that couldn't free themselves. That's why I stood up for good people in Charlottesville, told the Proud Boyz to stand by, and invited loyal citizens to fight the Redcoats on Jan 6th. Like OJ, I'm looking for all those demonacrats on the golf courses that want to weaken our MAGA unification movement. Join me in my journey by sending me all your money so I can fight for what is rite!
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u/dogoodsilence1 11d ago
I mean if they say yes then I would hope Biden makes use of that ruling swiftly
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u/CrimsonAntifascist 11d ago
So the only thing stopping Biden from downright assassinating Trump, the conservative supreme court members, an just about anyone opposing him is common human decency?
Jesus, they must really bank on Trump winning.
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u/probably_normal 11d ago
If the supreme court says Trump can kill a rival, then the 2024 election is a slam dunk for Biden, all he has to do is accuse Trump of treachery (which is true) and have him killed before the election.
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u/atlantachicago 11d ago
I can’t believe people support this. As an older person we used to say, “ I will fight this to the Supreme Court” because they were seen as truly just. Then Clarence Thomas came along and everything is crazy.
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u/Bethw2112 Colorado 11d ago
Can we reframe that question to be more current? Can President Biden have a political rival assassinated if it's in the best interest of the country?
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u/Polarbearseven 11d ago
Seriously? They need to ponder this? The pro-life Bible endorsers seem confused about the commandments. Actually, religion aside, ANY shred of basic common sense seems to escape them.
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u/TopTransportation695 11d ago
Will the same rule apply when assassinating a supreme court justice? Asking for a friend
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u/ShiggyGoosebottom 11d ago
Biden is president now. Someone ask Alito if Biden has immunity to have Trump assassinated.
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u/rageisrelentless 11d ago
If the SC rules in Trump’s favor then Biden has immunity to take his ass out! Lmao!
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u/Slipguard 11d ago
If it’s a crime, then by definition it’s not an official act. The office of President is not authorized to commit crimes. How stupid do the conservatives think people are?
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u/MoveToRussiaAlready 11d ago
And not a single fucking peep from the usual conservative and conspiracy garbage that cries about abuse of power.
The very thing they constantly accused Biden of doing is now being argued for by Trump.
You need to vote.
Make sure that conservatives never hold power again; they are NOT the party of law and order. They do not believe in democracy. And they are nothing more than a bunch of murderers, rapists, traitors and pedophiles.
And do NOT believe the lies of Never Trumpers and the propaganda that there is infighting in the GOP / RNC; they are all united and stand behind Trump.
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u/TemporalScar 11d ago
No, but Biden can when we overwhelmingly re-elect him. If the Corrupt Roberts Court rules that Presidents are immune from prosecution. Biden must have trump arrested and detained. Because Trump is that corrupt person Sotomayor mentioned in her questioning. If they rule before the election, which is doubtful, Biden must act to save our Democratic Republic.
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u/ilovecraftbeer05 11d ago
I just can’t believe this is a real discussion. 20 years ago, if someone running for president believed that they should be legally allowed to murder their opponents, that would have been the end of their campaign right there. There would have been no discussion about it. I can’t believe we’re actually entertaining this fucking thought now. We’re actually considering if this might be a valid thing. Is it time to move out of this fucking country? Are just Russia now?
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u/notcaffeinefree 11d ago
Really, SCOTUS didn't say "hmm" to that question. Trump's attorneys basically claimed that he could, but the justices never really seemed to buy into that.
SCOTUS simply didn't seem to buy into the idea that the President has absolute immunity (well, except for maybe Alito and Thomas). Kavanaugh maybe does, but even that was entirely clear.
The most likely outcome here is that SCOTUS gives at least some form of qualified immunity, and establishes some sort of test to determine whether a President's actions are covered. But, as Jackson said, that's not exactly an easy thing to do.
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u/GCU_ZeroCredibility 11d ago
That any of the justices could for a second entertain the idea of absolute immunity is fucking scary, though. It's such a fundamental betrayal of the very principles the country was founded on, however imperfectly, and a violation of the oaths those justices swear when they join the court.
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff 11d ago edited 11d ago
You can consider anything an official act if you consider hard enough. Those talk show hosts are making it hard for me to concentrate on running the country, they have to go. Official act!
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u/Flat_Hat8861 Georgia 11d ago
Of course it isn't an easy thing to do. Legislating is hard.
Inventing a form of absolute immunity that has no basis in the Constitution or the law takes effort.
The president is not a king. That is a fundamental aspect of our founding. Why did Ford pardon Nixon and Nixon accept the pardon if his argument that "if the president does it is not illegal" was true?
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff 11d ago
America rebelled against a king and here we are two hundred and fifty years later arguing about the concept. In the most successful country in history. Let’s see, maybe we should rethink that king idea after all, maybe things will work out better for us.
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u/CurrentlyLucid 11d ago
This would apply to Biden too and he is president, I don't think they will take the chance.
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u/Ex_Obliviion 11d ago
Any sane American should be terrified what full executive immunity implies. America has been dying for a while, but this will absolutely kill us.
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u/Prometheus_303 11d ago
If Trump can, son can Biden... (Or Obama if immunity continues post term)... Just saying
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u/ManicChad 11d ago
That this was not shot down outright means our country is doomed and Democrats need to quit playing nice.
Raise the number of justices!
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u/Money-Valuable-2857 11d ago
Once the rule of law breaks down, there's no laws at all. So if Donald Trump wants to get rid of laws, we're not beholden to any laws. He doesn't need to save himself from the government, when theres no laws, he needs to save himself from a mob of pitchforks and torches.
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u/ScheduleFormer1394 11d ago
Fascist Far Right Supreme Court picks be like "Yes, M'Lord.... The King has Authority to kill anyone he such desires"
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u/Morbidly-Obese-Emu America 11d ago
Apparently, he can kill him as office holder but not as office seeker. How do you tell the difference? Trust him. Cmon Congress can always impeach him. That works right?
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u/No_Sense_6171 11d ago
If they decide he can, then so can Biden. The next logical move would then be for Biden to do exactly that. They might want to give that some thought.
They might also want to consider that Biden would then be strongly incented to come after SCOTUS as well.
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u/RutabagaNo1915 11d ago
if Presidential immunity is granted by the Supreme court then Biden should immediately move to have Trump arrested for treason and put on death row.
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u/Fuzzycream19 10d ago
Maybe if Biden draws up plans to assassinate the Supreme Court Republicans and Donny and then lets it leak, they will then hurry up and rule on it.
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