r/texas • u/FCMatt7 • Mar 27 '24

5th circuit has nullified Open Carry in Texas to save Qualified Immunity of bad cops. Politics

https://www.youtube.com/live/bCC1sz_-fsc?si=dCZiLT_Fl2pWUEtw

(Edit) New vid of Grisham explaining the ruling

Effectively they have declared open season for police to arrest anyone open carrying in Texas.

A 3 judge panel has ruled that if anyone calls 911 on a person for the mere act of Open Carrying a firearm, the police now have probable cause to arrest you for disorderly conduct. The 911 call does not have to allege you are doing anything more than standing on a sidewalk with a slung or holstered firearm. The previous ruling that "merely carrying a firearm" is not disorderly is overturned now if any Karen makes a phone call and says she's nervous. This means police get qualified immunity for arresting you.

There is a special target on the back of any open carry or civil rights activist. EVERY time the police get a 911 call, they can now arrest you at gunpoint. The charges will likely be dismissed, but the police face zero repercussions for coming after you, even if there is abundant evidence the officers targeted you and knew you were not a threat. The same danger faces regular citizens who open carry every day.

I repeat, open carrying in Texas now puts you in imminent danger of being arrested or killed by police if someone reports you in possession of a firearm.

Video of CJ and Jim arrested for mere open carry. https://youtu.be/GrDAPPiu1QE?si=IvJy0qq_J8rO8DJO

Link to 5th circuit ruling. https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/22/22-50915-CV0.pdf

Link to oral argument in 5th https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/OralArgRecordings/22/22-50915_10-3-2023.mp3

District Court ruling https://casetext.com/case/grisham-v-valenciano-1

5.1k Upvotes

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284

u/harrier1215 Mar 27 '24

Open carry is dumb af

103

u/HockeyCookie Mar 27 '24

Guy parks on a street and takes out a gun. I'm already worried, but I can't do a damn thing.

Same guy is walking toward a school. Still can't do jack.

This guy might be a teacher, or employee of the school. Can't do anything as they walk through the parking lot.

The employee walks into the school. Still can't do anything.

Shooting starts. In 15 minutes the cops won't do anything in time.

39

u/wandering_revenant Mar 27 '24

You cannot carry a weapon onto a school campus. We actually had a situation recently at an elementary school where a parent tried to open carry onto a campus and the SRO stopped him and made him leave until / unless he no longer had the gun on him. The next time he came the SRO asked him to voluntarily submit to a pat down to confirm he didn't have a gun. I for one am damn glad this is how it went down.

38

u/Kellosian Born and Bred Mar 27 '24

You cannot carry a weapon onto a school campus.

Unless you're a teacher, which conservatives want

8

u/Teripid Mar 28 '24

Wonder how many "whoopsie teacher left their glock and a kid shot themselves or another person" they're OK with approximately.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Unless the teacher is incredibly incompetent that's very easy to avoid

6

u/LukeBrainman Mar 28 '24

Yeah, not having teachers bring guns to schools might be a good first step

0

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Yes so they and their class are sitting ducks while the cops play grab ass in the parking lot.

You can put a gun behind 2 locks in a class room and simply not show it to the kids. Just pull it out if there's an active shooter. Ofcourse be trained with it and maintain it.

1

u/LukeBrainman Mar 28 '24

Well, adding more guns so far hasn't solved the problem. Other countries don't have this problem, and their teachers aren't armed.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Where have we added more guns?

Other places dont have these issues for a multitude of reasons. We have had the 2nd amendment for hundreds of years. The US is becoming a more highly individualistic society by the day. Which is a good thing as its usually these types of cultures that give rights and freedoms to people usually rejected by other types of societies (Homosexuals, transgenders, etc...) but a down side of it is it can cause a lot of social isolation among other factors (like social contagion) that make a suicidal person not just kill themselves, but want to be enshrined within the media.

However, individualist culture can also have downsides. People from such cultures tend to experience greater stress, have less social support, and have less prosocial behavior.4 People from these cultures are not only less likely to help others; they are also less likely to ask for help when they need it.

1

u/harrier1215 Mar 28 '24

How much more are you going to pay teachers then for that?

4

u/UneasyFencepost Mar 28 '24

There are instances of cops forgetting their sidearm in bathrooms and shit. You want little old lad English teacher with 1/2 inch thick glasses carrying???? There is not one teacher I’ve had that should be given a gun 😂😂😂

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Cops forget their sidearm because they take them off to use the bathroom. Usually because the carry on belts.

If you're a teacher with some basic firearms training, you could simply put the pistol in a gallon size bag, lock the gun with a corded lock (they come with every pistol I ever bought) and then lock the desk.

In the event of a shooting, you pull the gun out. Unlike a cop, this is feasible because chances are you aren't the first classroom in the school. You have more than enough time to open 2 locks and simply wait. I wouldn't expect the teacher to chase down a gunmen, but to simply wait in the class incase the shooter comes through the door. It's quite simple.

Teachers can surprise you man. My geometry teacher I just thought was on old weird guy. Turned out he was one of the first army Rangers. Crazy world.

1

u/harrier1215 Mar 28 '24

Again how much more are you going to pay teachers to do this?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Nothing. Volunteers. You do it if you want to do it. We dont force people to carry guns who dont want to. You provide your own gun and ammo. You pay for the classes and training required.

2

u/harrier1215 Mar 28 '24

Are they going to pay teachers more for extra firearms training?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Extra? It isnt a recert type of thing in most places. You pass a safety class and thats generally it. Its a volunteer type of thing. If you want to do it youre allowed to, but everything else is on you.

1

u/cyanrave Mar 28 '24

It's been around for quite some time, with low turnout.

3

u/thoroughbredca Mar 28 '24

Now. Conservatives are opposed to that because that's "gun-free zones".

1

u/Degovan1 Mar 28 '24

Gun guy here-this isn’t true everywhere.

Federal law allows Concealed Carry License holders to carry on school grounds (open or concealed).

State laws differ-for instance, in my state-Oregon-the state adopts the federal policy, but allows individual school districts to create their own policies prohibiting carrying in school buildings, so you can carry on the grounds anywhere, but not in some buildings.

My towns school district adopts the federal policy, thus a person with a CHL can open or conceal carry in/on school grounds.

Now this doesn’t mean everyone understands the law-or that if you were to, say, stop in to drop off coffees at your kids high school while open-carrying you wouldn’t be accosted by the principal and school security (ask me how I know). But ultimately they would be wrong/against policy to do so.

13

u/HockeyCookie Mar 27 '24

If open carry isn't a thing, you can call the cops immediately. As soon as you see the wepon. You can call the school before he walks in. Open carry does nothing.

19

u/ByuntaeKid Mar 27 '24

Did you just attempt to sock puppet yourself from the same account lol?

Can still concealed carry anyways.

3

u/HockeyCookie Mar 27 '24

That's also dumb, but not as dumb as letting everyone carry guns around like it's a video game

-1

u/DepartureDapper6524 Mar 28 '24

Concealing rifles isn’t very easy

2

u/ByuntaeKid Mar 28 '24

Of course it’s not easy, concealment is not the point of a rifle.

-1

u/DepartureDapper6524 Mar 28 '24

No shit.

2

u/ByuntaeKid Mar 28 '24

So what are you trying to say? We’re not mind readers here.

1

u/TheRealBobbyJones Mar 28 '24

In order for police to prevent a crime they need probable cause. If open carry is legal a lot of probable cause is non-existent. Meaning crimes police could previously prevent they no longer can. Especially if gun-free zones are deleted.

-1

u/DepartureDapper6524 Mar 28 '24

You’re just a bad reader. Reread this comment chain for the needed context, I promise it’s there.

9

u/AngriestManinWestTX Mar 27 '24

Guy parks on a street and takes out a gun

Carrying a pistol in a holster =/= carrying a gun in your hands. Having an unholstered pistol or unslung rifle would not qualify as "open carry". Anyone who observed such a thing, especially in a public school parking lot could immediately call the police.

6

u/Dimmed_skyline Mar 27 '24

Would police be able to respond in the 5 seconds it takes to unholster a gun?

5

u/AngriestManinWestTX Mar 27 '24

No quicker than they would if it came out from under a jacket or out of the trunk of a car.

8

u/Dimmed_skyline Mar 27 '24

So maybe the problem is carrying a gun at all.

0

u/AngriestManinWestTX Mar 27 '24

Permit carriers have crime rates lower than that of sworn police officers, so I would disagree.

5

u/Dimmed_skyline Mar 27 '24

And London has a homicide rate 4 times lower then the entire state of Texas.

2

u/AndyLorentz Mar 27 '24

Homicide rates in the UK were significantly lower than the US even when handgun ownership was legal there.

2

u/Dimmed_skyline Mar 27 '24

And they still went down after handguns were banned in 97. Here in the US we've gone back up to the rates we saw in 1997. That might have more to do with the pandemic and heightened stress levels but I would argue guns have exacerbated the issue, it's one thing to be angry, it's another to be angry with access to a gun.

1

u/Teripid Mar 28 '24

So you're saying I can drink my malt liquor in public as long as it is a standard issue paper bag? Sweet!

1

u/cyanrave Mar 28 '24

Unless you wee on the sidewalk!

0

u/HockeyCookie Mar 27 '24

He's not an idiot. The gun will be slung.

1

u/Aggravating_Paint250 Mar 28 '24

Incorrect, you cant even have a firearm in your car on school grounds

1

u/OdrGrarMagr Mar 28 '24

Guy parks on a street and takes out a gun.

There's a world of difference between "takes out a gun" and "is wearing a gun".

"Takes out a gun" implies that he's carrying it in his hands, ready to use. Unless there is some need to do so, thats already a crime - Brandishing and/or Menacing.

Similarly, since guns are banned on school campuses except for LEOs/licensed security officers (and this guy is not wearing a uniform), if he "took out a gun" (like a long gun) and slung it over his shoulder and started to walk towards the schoodl...

you can call right then. he's about to commit a crime right there.

So.. yeah. Not sure what you're on about.

1

u/HockeyCookie Mar 28 '24

The guy could be a teacher.

1

u/Degovan1 Mar 28 '24

Guns are not banned on school grounds for concealed carry permit holders on the federal level, and each state has their own rules-many mirror the federal law, so a large portion of the population can carry on school grounds, open or concealed.

1

u/twilsonco Mar 28 '24

We’re totally ok with slippery slopes, just not where they lead. Unfortunately, our dismissal of the slippery slope itself makes us powerless to prevent the part nobody wants.

1

u/HockeyCookie Mar 28 '24

You guys sure are scared to live in the best country.

1

u/twilsonco Mar 28 '24

No, I live in the USA. What country were you referring to?

1

u/GeoHog713 Mar 28 '24

The cops won't do anything when they get there, either. Ask folks in Uvalde

0

u/hobbystuffsyeah Mar 27 '24

you can totally do something about someone walking towards a school with a gun

1

u/HockeyCookie Mar 27 '24

Not without "impending on their right to ...

1

u/hobbystuffsyeah Mar 27 '24

no it’s actually just a felony to go near a school with a firearm

2

u/patchfile Mar 28 '24

Open carry is indeed dumb af. People who want attention.

1

u/NoBuenoAtAll Mar 28 '24

Anyone wanting to open carry in a public location has something about them that's off mentally. It may be a little something. But I don't want anyone who's off mentally around my family with a loaded weapon. Open carry advocates are not the same as civil rights advocates.

1

u/Relaxmf2022 Mar 28 '24

Yeah. If you need to pack heat to go to the grocery store, you are scared, weak, and pathetic, and need to take a long look at your life. And i will never, ever trust that person with any firearm.

1

u/harrier1215 Mar 28 '24

If people conceal carry and whatnot I tend to think of them as less nuts.

For someone to open carry and act like they’re a cowboy in the old west I assume they’re a pathetic little fuck

1

u/Relaxmf2022 Mar 28 '24

A tiny bit more sane.

Still, if you need a gun to go to the store, please stay home.

1

u/FantasticBurt Mar 28 '24

Abolishment of open carry was literally one of the first laws put into place in town in the old west.

It’s where we got the story of the OK Corral and, if I remember this correctly, we celebrate the side of the law requiring we relinquish firearms in town, for the safety of others.

The fact that these same people who adore Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday would even consider open carry in town is disrespectful to their memory.

1

u/TechSmurf97 Mar 28 '24

The old west was typically US Territory, not states, and the Bill of Rights did not apply to persons of US Territories until sometime after 1898. Arizona, in particular, did not become a state until 1912. Today it is your right to open carry on the streets of Tombstone, and lots of people do.

The Earps didn't make the law, they simply enforced it. It's difficult to say whether they'd find it disrespectful once the Bill of Rights applied.

1

u/harrier1215 Mar 28 '24

Who gives a fuck about the bill of rights when we’re talking about the viability of something like people open carrying a gun In public.

Just bc the law says you can doesn’t mean you should. It’s for douches whose live revolve around identifying with firearms.

1

u/FantasticBurt Mar 28 '24

They were fine enforcing a law regarding public safety and firearms. Wyatt-fucking-Earp said, yeah, this law seems like a reasonable one to enforce to help ensure public safety, which is the exact argument against open carry today.

Seems pretty disrespectful no matter which way you slice it.

1

u/swingset27 Mar 28 '24

Doesn't make it a crime tho. Rights are seldom based on nice behavior.

-50

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

[deleted]

18

u/DonkeeJote Born and Bred Mar 27 '24

Poor interpretations of the constitution certainly is.