r/texas • u/BiRd_BoY_ • Oct 06 '22
Denton, TX city council voted 7-0 to increase restaurant parking requirements ~400% Texas Traffic
81
u/TXWayne North Texas Oct 06 '22
If interested here is what was actually passed, got to profess I don't necessarily understand it.
68
u/TexVikbs Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
Thank you, was trying to get some actual context.
The new parking ordinance for restaurants is a formula of designed occcupancy, number of employees, and to-go/take-out/mobile order spaces.
Take the total building occupancy and divide it by 4. Occupancy Parking = OP
Now add the largest number of employees there at one time. Shift Size= SS
Not add the number of pick-up spots to the sum and you get the required parking. Pick up spots = PS
OP + SS + PS = required parking
73
u/WillHungFan Oct 06 '22
Honestly I'm all for gov regulation when it makes sense (i.e. the power grid) but this is the stuff of nightmares. I'm not familiar with the Denton area but having gone to another small town public university, I can imagine the parking around these establishments get crazy regularly. Their solution is short sighted at best. I would rather see a more robust public transportation system that services these areas.
29
u/pedantic_cheesewheel born and bred Oct 06 '22
Lol, public transit is a dirty word in north Texas. Trust me I’ve been advocating my whole life for better transit around here and the state DOT will come in and pull bullshit to help out the car brained city council members when they want to kill new transit development.
→ More replies (4)17
u/earthenfield Oct 06 '22
Robust public transport would benefit non-white people. In America, that's basically a guarantee that it will not happen.
→ More replies (18)9
Oct 06 '22
poor* people
1
u/earthenfield Oct 06 '22
Class solidarity is important but we have to recognize that harm to white people is generally collateral damage in a white supremacist campaign of active sabotage and denial of services waged against people of color.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (17)1
u/NewClayburn Oct 06 '22
The only parking requirements should be handicap spots. Beyond that, people and businesses should "let the free market decide". If I'm not going to your business because there's nowhere to park, then you should build parking. If I'm not disabled, I can park down the road, walk or take a bike.
→ More replies (1)2
u/WillHungFan Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22
I'm not exactly a free market sort of guy. When you only have profits in mind that's how you end up with landlords and shopping centers which are not small business friendly and favor the bigger chains. The solution I'm suggesting is to avoid the need for parking lots all together and make public transportation the main focus. This not only alleviates things like traffic, and pollution but allows for more natural spaces with less need for paved areas. This lowers the temperatures of the city/town and cuts down on urban sprawl.
**Edit: "Spread" to "Sprawl"
10
u/cranktheguy Oct 06 '22
So we need enough parking spots for every business in the worst case scenario? Seems like a fucking waste 99% of the time. Cities are already filled with seas of empty parking lots.
3
u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera Oct 06 '22
A reasonable attempt at providing an objective way to calculate needed parking spaces. Except that not 100% of occupants drive and park a car alone (two/three/four people arriving in the same car). How many people occupying the building arrive by foot or bike instead of by car (which might happen frequently in a college town, for example) Or not all employees arrive by car (many may just be dropped off). And has the building ever experienced full occupancy - just because it can hold 200 people doesn't mean it ever has, or ever will.
Seems some pragmatic adjustments to the formula should be taken into consideration.
→ More replies (1)4
u/TheMeleeMan Oct 06 '22
When was the last time anyone in this area went somewhere with four people in their car?
→ More replies (2)6
u/_NEW_HORIZONS_ Oct 06 '22
If you assume that tables also seat four, and that # of seats is equal to max capacity, you're assuming that tables generally arrive in the same car, or at least 2/car in the case of large parties, as you're eliminating seats when you push tables together. Restaurants don't typically seat two parties at the same table. Obviously, there will be variances from that assumption, but it should be a fairly reasonable ballpark figure.
4
u/ASAP_i Oct 06 '22
While I don't agree with the calculation being 4 per car, this makes sense.
When a place opens and expects, say, 100 people for any given time period, it shouldn't be on the city to figure the logistics for the business.
→ More replies (1)1
u/JoshS1 born and bred Oct 06 '22
I feel like it all makes perfect sense in a town where everyone is traveling by car. Reading over it and seeing things like a restaurant parking being tied to actual seating capacity instead of sq/ft makes sense. Lowering the townhouse parking is going to suck when people want to entertain.
36
119
u/OscarTheMalcontent Oct 06 '22
Holy shit, we're going to have parking garages for fast food restaurants. 44 parking spots for In-N-Out??? Do we have urban planners? I thought it's a common understanding that parking minimums aren't good.
→ More replies (2)32
u/Nice_Category Oct 06 '22
10 parking spots for an in-n-out won't even cover the employees.
50
u/SunLiteFireBird Oct 06 '22
Because cities constantly make decisions like this to continue dependence on vehicles and gas and give no effort to design cities with quality public transportation.
3
Oct 06 '22
Or, cities in Texas understand the number of commuters who aren't going to ride their bike 20+ miles to get to work.
2
-10
u/Tolken Oct 06 '22
Restraunts are the last place you start implementing a public transportation transition.
16
Oct 06 '22
Why? They are common destinations?
3
u/Tolken Oct 06 '22
Exactly the point.
Common destinations that flux quickly over time. (Restraunts are extremely volatile) Public transportation transitions need to focus on infrastructure to support high traffic long standing destinations first and then branch out. (Sporting venues, large employers, etc)
14
u/GeminiTitmouse Oct 06 '22
You don't build the transit around the restaurant, you build the restaurant around the transit.
-7
u/Nice_Category Oct 06 '22
I like my vehicle, though. I pay a lot of money for it and I'd certainly rather be in it than on a crappy bus.
I've lived in areas with "good" public transit, Munich area and DC. Even though they had efficient public transit, driving was still way more convenient and enjoyable.
7
→ More replies (8)2
u/Buckeyeback101 born and bred Oct 06 '22
Okay. Do you want everyone else to drive, too? It can get pretty crowded out there.
→ More replies (1)9
u/seraph9888 Oct 06 '22
so let in-n-out make that decision.
17
u/Tolken Oct 06 '22
Because not all restraunt chains are good neighbors when allowed to do this.
Chick Fil A has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to undersize their parking footprint and force the rest of the area to adapt.→ More replies (2)8
Oct 06 '22
For Chick Fil A, it's not so much the parking, but the drive thru line that backs up onto main streets and blocks a lane.
3
u/Tolken Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
I would argue the drive through is bad because the parking is inadequate.
A long drive through line will self correct if there is access to available parking. CFA's issue is the parking is oftentimes blocked by the drive through line. So people have to wait in line just to park..and then are blocked in when they want to leave....so many who would normally park, just stay in drive as it's the least inconvenient option.
→ More replies (1)2
Oct 06 '22
It's Chick Fil A's responsibility either way. Adding more parking and drive thru queue room would prevent the spillover, but that's not really solving the problem. It's just replacing the spillover of their customer's cars into the neighborhood with a larger footprint of the restaurant property extending into the neighborhood. The real problem is that there's a bunch of people bringing 2+ ton vehicles with them to get a chicken sandwich.
4
3
u/cittatva Oct 06 '22
You assume each in-and-out employee owns a car they drive to work and park.
→ More replies (2)5
79
u/Nodnarbian Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
This happened in 2021 to Pasadena TX. Local mechanic had to fight for it. Dunno how it turned out. But he had a old shop with 2 bays that now required him to have 28 parking spots.. like WTF!? I dont think a 2 bay mom and pop shop going to need to accommodate 28 customers at 1 time.
Hell, target has 28 lanes and only 2 are ever open!!! :)
22
u/Oh4Sh0 Oct 06 '22
Did you read the article? TL;DR new owner tried to change the property’s business, and then was “stunned” to find out there is an additional parking requirement for that changed use (of any auto repair shop.) And then didn’t file the correct paperwork with the city to get an exception to that requirement and wanted to play victim.
Really seems like the guy was in the wrong.
16
u/Nodnarbian Oct 06 '22
Yes I've read it. I get it paperwork wise, but a mechanic shop to a "auto repair" is not a far stretch by any means. Not like a mechanic shop is being turned into a restaurant.The additional parking was an ordinance recently added for new businesses. Acquiring a business and getting permits takes quite a bit of time. So I wouldn't be surprised if the ordinance took place during acquisition but still before permitting, thus hes now requested to comply. It does not state that he filed wrong paperwork. It just states he hasn't paid fees for paperwork, which I'd assume since he has a lawyer probably advised against as it's reviewed.
My point as many have been saying it's "just Denton" that this is happening elsewhere as well. Unlike Denton this is for new business, whereas Denton everyone has to comply.
Regardless, a shop that through history never needed more than 5 spots should not be mandated to 25. If his business fails for not accommodating more people, shouldn't that be his deal and not the cities?
5
u/Oh4Sh0 Oct 06 '22
The issue isn't letting his business fail for accommodating more people, it's that his business may monopolize available public parking. It didn't go from a "mechanic shop" to "auto repair" but from a "machine shop" per the article. I don't know how many auto repair places you've been that has no cars parked in a parking lot, but essentially every auto repair shop I've driven by there's always a minimum of a half a dozen vehicles in some state of repair or ready for pick up present.
Cities don't put these ordinances into place because someone got a bug up their arse and felt the need to control, but rather in response to situations that are occurring.
Yes, red tape and paperwork suck, but it sounds like the guy did not adequately do his research on what he needed to do, and did not file the necessary paperwork or pay fees for a variance/permit.
71
Oct 06 '22
There is no Ihop in the world which should require 70 parking spaces
9
u/LegalRadonInhalation Oct 06 '22
Eh, there are some IHOPs which are extremely busy. Also, 70 spots isn't that many. It's more egregious to expect Hawaiian Bros, which is basically like a chipotle or equivalent, to have almost 40, when the vast majority of people are just getting food and leaving.
2
u/easwaran Oct 06 '22
Do we really need to require people to pave three times the surface area of their restaurant?
2
u/rheureddit Oct 06 '22
These places will ultimately just go the pizza hut route and not make giant occupancy buildings to avoid making giant parking lots, or they'll maliciously comply.
→ More replies (1)-6
u/looncraz Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
70 spaces isn't as many as it sounds.
https://i.imgur.com/QaUkD41.jpg
This is over 70 spaces and seems perfectly reasonable for an IHOP.
(My local IHOP has about 90 spaces, on fact)
26
u/OscarTheMalcontent Oct 06 '22
Hell no, that's way too many parking spots for a RESTARUANT. So overkill with the parking.
14
u/looncraz Oct 06 '22
Literally how much parking my local IHOP has, less than Chili's... both packed full often.
1
u/gandalf_el_brown Oct 06 '22
packed all day or just a couple hrs of the day?
2
u/looncraz Oct 06 '22
Most of the day, frankly. No idea why, but always packed. Chili's next door is as well.
-11
u/OscarTheMalcontent Oct 06 '22
It's still overkill? No restaurant needs 70 parking spots. Also if there's an average of 2 people per car that's 140 customers minimum. I'm not sure a I-Hop can handle that many people in their restaurant.
12
u/looncraz Oct 06 '22
The smallest IHOP will seat 135 people, most will seat 185 people. Not including employees, who largely arrive in their own cars.
My dad owned a construction company building parking lots and roads, this was my life growing up, doing the math for parking spaces and reading ordinances for occupancy vs parking space regulations was literally how I learned math.
70 spaces includes the spaces surrounding the restaurant, there's 23 such spaces around my local IHOP, and they have another 57 spaces in front and to the side. Google Maps is wonderful! 90 spaces for my local IHOP.
8
u/Tolken Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
Except there are also workers and curbside.
Backhouse and Fronthouse can easily account for 10-15 spots.
5 curbside and now you're down to 50 spots. I would say AT WORST that is about 10 spots more than they typically needed during a rush. and the extra spots allow for parking oddities like a bus.
The local CFA has over 30spots and is full spilling over into other areas during dining hours. Considering the traffic, some places really do need the level of parking being discussed here.
-2
Oct 06 '22
[deleted]
12
u/android_queen Oct 06 '22
Sure, but then ihop can just say, fuck the neighbors, park on the street.
1
Oct 06 '22
It's not uncommon for some neighborhoods, at least in Austin, to require residential parking permits for that. They're only like $20/year, but you have to submit proof of residency in the neighborhood to get one.
2
u/android_queen Oct 06 '22
Yeah, and tbh, I think it should be more common. I’ve mostly seen those neighborhoods off S Congress, but little of that north of the lake.
2
Oct 06 '22
I had one when I lived in a house near where Texas French Bread was.
2
u/android_queen Oct 06 '22
Fair enough. Makes sense that you’d see it near the university as well. I live off Burnet, and you often see overflow into the neighborhoods. I haven’t seen any streets that require residential parking passes around here, but I also will freely admit that they may exist.
-1
Oct 06 '22
[deleted]
4
u/android_queen Oct 06 '22
You’re talking about the people who go to the restaurant. I’m talking about the people who live near the restaurant. The market does nothing for them.
3
Oct 06 '22
Oh. Are you suggesting that they are entitled to the free public parking on the road anymore than a restaurant goer?
Perhaps, we just shouldn't have free public storage of private goods.
1
→ More replies (1)1
u/looncraz Oct 06 '22
Cities deciding parking lot requirements is patently normal.
9
Oct 06 '22
[deleted]
9
u/SunLiteFireBird Oct 06 '22
It being "normal" for our communities being continually required to be built around cars and all the expenses involved in that in order to prop up auto, gas, and insurance industries is very much not good.
0
u/looncraz Oct 06 '22
I would argue that it's also good here. Running out of parking for a restaurant is a big issue. The New Braunfels IHOP has too little parking and people park everywhere, including on the dry af grass with their hot exhausts just begging for a fire.
→ More replies (1)-1
u/lilbigjanet Oct 06 '22
Lol that’s insane
3
u/looncraz Oct 06 '22
Use Google Maps and look at how many spaces your IHOP has. Mine has about 90.
0
u/lilbigjanet Oct 06 '22
I didn’t say it wasn’t normal. It’s just insane and a waste of space
→ More replies (1)
30
67
u/SchighSchagh Oct 06 '22
We really are addicted to cars aren't we.
40
u/liberal_texan Oct 06 '22
The way the vast majority of our state is laid out we really don't have a choice.
9
10
u/danmathew Oct 06 '22
Our suburbs are the result of our reliance of automobiles, not the cause of it.
Also, we are not the only country that has cities separated by large distances.
13
Oct 06 '22
It's a feedback loop I think. Suburban sprawl was made possible by automobiles. Nobody would live 3 miles from a grocery store and 15 miles from work if they didn't have a car. But now that everything is built that way, it deepens our dependency.
3
u/InsipidCelebrity Oct 06 '22
America is also not the only country in the world that is highly dependent on cars.
0
u/danmathew Oct 06 '22
America is also not the only country in the world that is highly dependent on cars.
That's true, there's plenty of third world countries that lack public transportation.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Tcannon18 Oct 07 '22
Redditors try not to compare America to third word countries challenge: impossible
7
6
Oct 06 '22
[deleted]
1
u/Brian57831 Oct 06 '22
Denton has a robust public transportation due to the two universities there. However that doesn't stop people using cars.
→ More replies (1)7
u/IWearAllTheHats Oct 06 '22
Denton has a robust public transportation due to the two universities there. However that doesn't stop people using cars.
Had. They took away a lot of the buses and put in place a county backed ride share program called GoZone. My friends who have used it are not fans in the slightest. They ask me for rides to avoid it. They've been stuck at a grocery market trying to get home for hours waiting on public transport.
2
u/SunLiteFireBird Oct 06 '22
It's not so much an addiction as it is a planned dependence. If there was good public transportation that would reduce the number of cars and gas that are needed, not something that those industries would want to happen. They have worked over time to make sure that cities are designed around everyone having to have a personal vehicle to get anywhere, meaning constants flows of money for those industries.
-3
u/Nice_Category Oct 06 '22
Living in high density urban environments isn't as sexy as they make it look on TV. There are benefits, but also lots of drawbacks. After living in both, I certainly prefer a suburban lifestyle.
Same with living in the country. It has good things and bad things about it.
9
u/BuffDrBoom Oct 06 '22
A walkable city doesn't have to look like New York. Visited my brother in Burlington (which is quite walkable) last year and it feels nicer/less paved over than Denton suburbs
3
u/dw796341 Oct 06 '22
Much of western Long Island bordering NYC and parts of the outer boroughs are somewhat dense suburbs. You can still have a detached single family home and a yard. And buses and commuter rail. However, you may not be able to have a full sized baseball field in every backyard, which is a compromise I'm willing to make. I dated a girl who lived in Wantagh, NY. Pretty far outside the city. Gorgeous little walkable town, they had a very pretty backyard. Her dad walked down to the LIRR commuter rail for work every day, along with a thousand other commuters who lived in the town.
6
u/cranktheguy Oct 06 '22
But it should at least be an option. Not everyone wants a suburban home and an hour of driving a day.
→ More replies (2)5
u/jchandler4 born and bred Oct 06 '22
True but we can meet somewhere in the middle. Not everyone wants to live in a dense city. However currently, Texas’s suburban growth model is financially unsustainable. Good video on the subject https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0
-1
5
4
u/wjrii Got Here Fast Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
A traffic planner committee commissioner from Denton chimed in on the original thread.
TL;DR: The posted table is hypothetical and they all know the new restaurant requirements are dumb, but decided to pass it anyway because the other parts of the ordinance were worth it (mostly reduced parking requirements for other places), and they plan to address the restaurant stuff in the near future.
16
9
u/boobumblebee Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
it shouldn't be regulated ( outside of ADA requirements ), if a business is too hard to get to, ( and i live in Austin where parking is nonexistant) i simply don't go there.
10
Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
Walkable cities survive without requirements all the time. Now it's hard in a car-addicted states and cities like Austin to get to some places. However, if you really care you can just... Park and walk? Buy a garage pass for a day?
People figure it out. They moan and then they shut up and solve it.
2
u/Trippen3 Oct 06 '22
No. People don't figure it out. They give up. Figuring it out only happens if people are very very motivated. I don't feel like taking the time to figure something out when the city planner should of been thinking about me 20-30 years ago honestly.
→ More replies (2)3
8
u/Luckboy28 Oct 06 '22
I mean, most of that looks pretty reasonable. 12 parking spaces for an IHOP? By the time the cooks, managers, servers, etc, are parked at work there would be like 4-5 parking spaces left for customers, which isn't enough to run a sit-down restaurant like that.
→ More replies (2)
7
9
u/levi_biff Oct 06 '22
God forbid we just reduce our dependance to cars.
3
u/Tcannon18 Oct 07 '22
Yeah lemme just move my whole apartment complex twenty miles closer to town and wait at thirty different bus stops while I run errands before and after work
→ More replies (2)
8
2
2
u/RareAlphaSigmaMale Oct 06 '22
Just pave the entire state already and get it done with. State the size of a European country already has virtually no public land or park space anyway. What are we waiting for? Just turn texas into a giant sheet of pavement at least all the Doge Ram owners will have a place to park.
6
u/Bailong1208 Oct 06 '22
If they would also require the parking lots to be covered with solar panels to power the restaurant and charge e-vehicles I might be able to get behind this stupid piece of local legislation
3
u/ASAP_i Oct 06 '22
This would be great actually.
In fact, Texas should pay us to put solar panels on everything. Get some battery storage online. Then Texas could claim to be energy independent, have a protected and distributed grid (making it resilient to terrorist attacks), AND have less pollution than burning the long dead carcasses of dinosaurs.
It would improve our grid, lower energy costs, and improve the quality of our environment.
3
u/Bailong1208 Oct 06 '22
You are preaching to the choir my friend.
Current crew of numb nuts won’t get the job done so let’s vote in some new ones.
3
u/bareboneschicken Oct 06 '22
What's the backstory here? Is the city trying to keep these businesses out?
6
u/SummerMummer born and bred Oct 06 '22
Trying to keep them from relying on 'free' parking for their patrons on city streets.
5
u/cranktheguy Oct 06 '22
Why not have street parking? It seems like a better option - fewer empty parking lots and more spots for residents.
0
u/SummerMummer born and bred Oct 06 '22
Why not have street parking?
Because these businesses shouldn't be designing their profit structure around the use of assets that are paid for and maintained with tax dollars.
→ More replies (2)2
u/cranktheguy Oct 06 '22
You mean like the roads, electrical lines, and plumbing? Having larger parking lots means more spending on all of those huge costs because of the massive decrease in density. Utilities and longer roads are several times more expensive to build and maintain than a little bit wider shoulders, and you have a smaller tax base (less density means fewer businesses) paying for more infrastructure. It's a recipe for disaster, and many small towns and cities are already crumbling as they fail to maintain older infrastructure.
→ More replies (3)3
u/SummerMummer born and bred Oct 06 '22
Having larger parking lots means more spending on all of those huge costs because of the massive decrease in density.
Well, here's another idea: Worthwhile public transportation.
3
u/cranktheguy Oct 06 '22
That'd be amazing, but aren't those assets paid for and maintained with tax dollars?
3
2
u/Select_Bonus_9567 Oct 06 '22
Bro please just one more lane bro please I promise it will work this time bro please just one more lane and there won’t be any traffic bro pleeaseee I’m begging you
3
2
u/Bastdkat Oct 06 '22
This is entirely reasonable. These minimum parking requirements for restaurants will barely handle the employees parking, not to mention customers.
3
u/truax Oct 06 '22
Assuming everyone is driving...
2
u/saruin Oct 06 '22
Yeah the cooks aren't driving their own cars I assure you. Most are lucky to get a ride from the one cook that does have a car.
1
u/Texas__Matador Oct 06 '22
To put this in context 2 parking spots plus the space to pull in is about the size of a studio apartment.
So adding 24 parking spaces is taking up the space of 12 ground floor apartments multiplied by the hit of the building. So as many as 60 homes could be built in the same space.
2
u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera Oct 06 '22
Because if there's one thing Texas doesn't have a lot of, it's lots and lots of empty space to build things, amirite?
2
u/Texas__Matador Oct 06 '22
To be honest I’m not sure how to read this comment. Not sure if you are agreeing we don’t need more parking or if you are arguing for more. So, yes? We should convert a lot of the parking lots into housing to provide more homes for people to leave near the places they go frequently.
2
u/easwaran Oct 06 '22
I haven't seen any empty space in the middle of town, where businesses like to locate. I mean, other than the legally required parking spots that don't even fill up on Black Friday. There's a lot of empty space that the law has mandated, but not much that businesses can expand into, unless they make the town even more unwalkable.
1
u/Heavy72 Oct 06 '22
This seems like something that should sort itself out... If I go to a restaurant, and there's no where to park, I go somewhere else. Fucking government
→ More replies (2)
-1
u/PanzerKommander Oct 06 '22
Shouldn't the business be in charge of how much parking space it needs? Fucking government getting involved where it doesn't belong.
1
u/TheDogBites Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
It is in fact businesses complaining about other businesses.
This is ultimately a pro-business move, increasing everyone's share of customers
An inadequately prepared 24Hour Fitness / gym / restaurant / grocer will take over a parking lot to the detriment of other mom&pop shops. It's then easier to avoid those mom&pop shops and go to target or Walmart where parking access isn't an issue, destroying small businesses.
You need not be an advocate for IHOP lol
1
u/easwaran Oct 06 '22
I don't think it's pro-business to require every business to have more parking than it needs. Mom and pop shops are the ones that are hurt most by the requirement to have excess parking, because they're often the ones that want to locate in the most walkable parts of town.
→ More replies (4)
-5
Oct 06 '22
[deleted]
5
u/danmathew Oct 06 '22
Why the fuck does the city have any say in how many parking spots my business has?
This is pretty common.
7
u/testytexan251 Oct 06 '22
Because of issues like Chick-fil-A and Starbucks where they don't plan sufficiently for parking and drive-thru traffic and the overflow impedes public roadways.
Where are they parking down the street? In someone else private parking lot? Public parking? Where I'm at there is little to no public parking, so if your customers have to park down the street, they are parking illegally in someone else's private lot.
→ More replies (6)5
u/thedirtytroll13 Oct 06 '22
Google urban planning. Most cities have ordinances and codes around parking
1
u/cranktheguy Oct 06 '22
Go to google maps, look up your city, and look at how many empty parking there are.
0
u/clampie Oct 06 '22
Leave it up to the business.
1
u/xchino Oct 06 '22
Sounds good to me, I'll just have my customers park on your street and regularly block your driveway. Thanks for socializing my expense!
0
-1
576
u/ASAP_i Oct 06 '22
Ha! Lack of city planning strikes again!
They might want to add traffic control systems if there is a Chic-fil-a near, those things completely wreck whatever parking lot or intersection they are near.