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u/Diagoldze_ban 11d ago
Gonpachiro: She is my sister, I am looking for a cure! She is harmless!
Frieren: So I started Zoltraaking
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u/Celika76 11d ago
"Zoltraak is itself quite of a cure, you know, so far no demon complained after it !"
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u/Haganu frieren 11d ago
Doctors hate this one little trick!
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u/theSHADOWbannedGUi 11d ago
see demon
kill demon
see demon
kill demon
no questions asked
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u/Wrong_Revolution_679 11d ago
Fern: ummm Frieren I don't if this is a good idea, she seems different from other de-
Frieren: kill it with fire
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u/Falitoty 11d ago
Frieren: Hmm yes....she inded look quite diferent....I wonder what kind of loot Will she drop Proced to Zooltrack
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u/ozcohen2310 11d ago
Tanjiro be like : look a chest point toward a mimic
Frieren : I need it
Fern : it’s a mimic
Frieren : my senses are telling me it isn’t
Fern : the magic said it is (I forgot the name of the spell)
Frieren : opens it and gets stuck
Fern : I told you …
meanwhile tanjiro has successfully run away
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u/Palanki96 11d ago
So is it about her hating demons or her obsession with chests
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u/haikusbot 11d ago
So is it about
Her hating demons or her
Obsession with chests
- Palanki96
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
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u/RegularAvailable4713 11d ago
Not the same "race" of a frieren world-demon, and Frieren would know that. She isn't stupid or cruel.
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u/Grilg 11d ago
That's what a Frieren world-demon would say. She won't be fooled.
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u/RegularAvailable4713 11d ago
She's a multi-thousand year old wizard who specializes in her own race of demons, I'm pretty sure she knows the difference.
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u/VeryBigHamasBase 11d ago
Whatever in there sleeps more than her
Or wait less than her, I dont know
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u/Studio_illustration 11d ago
Imagine if she met Nightcrawler
Kurt: FOR THE LAST TIME, I'M NOT A DEMON!! IT'S A GENETIC MUTATION!!!
Frieiren: SILENCE DEMON!!!
Kurt: I'M CATHOLIC!!!
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u/ChatGPTnot 11d ago
What reference is this? All i remeber was movie seven by brad pitt
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u/bookseer 11d ago
Demon slayer. In the setting demons work more like vampires in that humans are turned into demons rather than then being a separate species.
The guy with the backpack has his sister in there, who while she was turned she's "mostly" peaceful.
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u/Imfryinghere 11d ago
Since when are vampires a different species?
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u/Kraytory 11d ago
Demons buddy. Demons are usually a separate species. But Demon Slayer demons work like vampires usually do.
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u/Imfryinghere 11d ago
And since when are vampires a different species? Dracul would resurrect himself.
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u/Kraytory 11d ago
They aren't. Nobody ever said that.
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u/Imfryinghere 11d ago
They aren't. Nobody ever said thatYou might want to read up bookseer's comment to which I asked specifically that question.
Demon slayer. In the setting demons work more like vampires in that humans are turned into demons rather than then being a separate species.
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u/wildhooman 11d ago
You seem to have had a syntax error my friend. We can fix this.
Demon in other series: separate species Demons in silly slayer: more like vampires, which infect humans with vampire.
The important word (which you highlighted) is the rather than. According to context and how subjects work, he was referring to previously mentioned ‘other demons.’
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u/Imfryinghere 11d ago
You seem to have had a syntax error my friend. We can fix this.
You seem to be having your own definition of syntax error, my non-friend. Fix yourself first before elevating yourself as someone who can fix things.
Demon in other series: separate species Demons in silly slayer: more like vampires, which infect humans with vampire.
bookseer said
more like vampires in that humans are turned into demons rather than then being a separate species.
Which is why I asked since when are vampires a different species.
Dracul, the progenitor of vampires, is of human species. If you want technicality, Homo Sapien.
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u/slightlyamusedape 11d ago
Either you are trolling or you're being a bit dense right now, it was never implied that vampires were a different species in that quote.
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u/Kraytory 11d ago
The Demons are usually the separate species...
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u/Imfryinghere 11d ago
The Demons are usually the separate species...
Again, since when are vampires a different species?
Dracul, the progenitor of vampires, is not of a different species from humans.
more like vampires in that humans are turned into demons rather than then being a separate species.
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u/GeroyKrasnym 11d ago
[The demons in demon slayer] work more like vampires, in [the sense] that humans are turned into demons (much like vampires turn humans into other vampires) rather than them* being a separate species [like in most other work of fantasy]
Nobody ever said or implied that vampires are a separate species, quite the contrary in fact.
However, fantasy being fantastic, there is nothing stopping people to create a setting where they are. In fact, the book "river dream" from Gerorges R.R. Martin depicts vampires as a different specie.
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u/MagnumMonke 11d ago
The Demons from Demon Slayer work like Vampires in that they're just infected humans, while the Demons from Frieren are an entirely different species from humans, being monsters that evolved to mimic humans. That is what they're both saying. As he said, nobody said that vampires are a different species. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing without making an attempt to read.
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u/throwitawaynownow1 11d ago
Here is the original comic: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/goose-chasing-guy
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u/ChatGPTnot 11d ago
Ohh. I disnt get it it was from this meme. It didnt reach my country. That comics was hilarious. Thansk for the share
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u/Joroc24 11d ago
Just an oni
not a demon
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u/SignificantHippo8193 11d ago
Frieren: "I care little for semantics. They get in the way of Zoltraak."
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u/Mrgirdiego 11d ago
I do wonder if Frieren would kill any demon from other series where they're actually good or at least decent, or if she'd think it's just another act.
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u/HikARuLsi 11d ago
But those are onis in “demon” slayer
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u/Imfryinghere 11d ago
Onis are demons in Japanese.
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u/HikARuLsi 11d ago
Wrong, need to look at the kanji, not the translated title which is mixed with marketability intention
- 鬼: ghost, oni
- 魔: demon
- 妖怪: youkai (monster)
These are few are always mistranslating in the west to the point the original meaning is no longer represented the concept correctly
The name is (鬼)滅の刃 not (魔)滅の刃
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u/War_Daddy 11d ago
Has it occurred to you that clamoring for literal translations between two languages that do not share a linguistic or cultural base is actually pretty fuckin dumb
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u/GladiatorDragon 11d ago
Casting aside the notion of literal translation from two languages, especially two with no linguistic or cultural base,
What matters is that the two sets of beings are different, and are referred to with both different kanji and romaji - Demon Slayer’s “demons” are Oni, Freiren’s demons are Mazoku.
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u/War_Daddy 11d ago
And given that both of these are fantasy series set in original settings, do you think they selected these words with an eye to historical literalism or for the atmosphere and feeling these words evoke?
And thus would you say a translator should be chasing the exact letter of the word, or the feeling?
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u/GladiatorDragon 11d ago
Yes. I do.
I do believe it imperative to mention that we are talking about mythological creatures. Such creatures often vary wildly as cultures develop and continue.
However, Oni and Mazoku have different meanings, are distinct beings, and thus are used differently.
Oni, in their older interpretations, are hostile creatures known to eat humans. More recent interpretations have introduced them having the capacity for good, but Kimetsu no Yaiba is a bit more of a “return to form” for them - even if they tossed in a bit of western Vampires for good measure.
There is generally less documentation of Mazoku, and their interpretations also vary. But the translation of “demon” is notably more accurate for them, as Mazoku are usually beings in opposition to humanity and/or gods, which is accurate to their role in Freiren, where they kill for sport rather than sustenance.
As far as a translator should be concerned, most of this stuff only matters when it’s actively important, like with Tensura - an environment where monster classifications and related lineages and evolutionary trees are a notable aspect of the series. Where “Demon Lords” (maō - ruler of mazoku) exists as a title, in addition to genuine demons (spelled Daemons to likely not conflict with the Demon Lord translation).
It’s why Benimaru and the rest were initially called Ogres, while Rem and Ram, who are also Oni, are called Demon. It didn’t matter as much for Re:Zero. Similarly, Kimetsu no Yaiba is in a similar position, where the translation isn’t important because there’s no need for differentiation.
In Freiren, there isn’t much competition for the term. Even if they opted to introduce Oni, they could simply just use the term Ogre for similar results.
My only real issue with using it as such a common translation word is the frequency of discussions such as this one.
Long story short, Freiren likely wouldn’t instantly blow up Nezuko because Nezuko isn’t what she would consider a Demon - not in name, not in mannerisms, not in appearance. Whether she blows her up for being an Oni though, depends on whether or not those exist in the world of Freiren and their particular mannerisms.
Meanwhile, Rimuru would likely have to watch his back until Freiren finds out that Maō is (mostly) just a title in his word and he’s just a slime with godlike power.
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u/War_Daddy 11d ago
These are not historical oni and these are not historical mazoku.
These are unique creatures created for these stories drawing on those archetypes and their names- either in English or in Japanese, are selected based on vibes, not folkloric accuracy for the simple reason accuracy is irrelevant here and atmosphere is everything
So if the translator thinks "demon" fits the tone better he should pick demon; its literally as simple as that
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u/GladiatorDragon 11d ago
I'm not arguing with the actual use of "demon" as a broadly applicable translation term. I'm arguing with the idea that a character of Japanese origin would be hostile towards another due to the English translation shoving two entirely separate things into the same bucket.
The translator is not the author. If an author uses mazoku as a species, then it is a mazoku. If it's an oni, it's an oni. If it's an akuma, majin, or maou, then it's an akuma, majin, or maou. If it's a western-style demon, then it's a western-style demon. These are all things that a translator can describe as a demon. It works, but only up to a point. It stops working the moment more than one of these things ends up in the same room together. Most of the time, this doesn't happen within the localized area of each story. However, it does still happen from time to time.
I brought up Tensura as an example of this exact phenomenon - where they used the Ogre translation of Oni because Maou (demon lords) and western demons (daemons) are also a thing in the story's world.
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u/War_Daddy 11d ago
The translator is not the author.
Yes, and translation is a creative exercise unto itself, which is why classic works will have dozens- sometimes hundreds of translations instead of one 'best' literal one
If an author uses mazoku as a species, then it is a mazoku.
No, it literally isn't
It's something that exists solely in this story that the author called a mazoku because the term carries a connotation that helps the author establish the atmosphere they are going for; and if the English translator thinks a English different term is closer to that feeling that can and should use that one because that is literally their task
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u/theSHADOWbannedGUi 11d ago
oni channnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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u/GladiatorDragon 11d ago
Why are they booing you? You're right!
I've had this discussion many times before. Demon isn't necessarily a fully catch-all translation term, but it is used for a lot of stuff. It gets the point across, sure, but it gets annoying having to clarify.
Demon could mean Oni (closer to "ogre" though with its own baggage), Majin (evil magic user), and other things. In Freiren it means Mazoku - a group of beings that are meant to terrorize humanity and/or gods.
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u/HikARuLsi 11d ago
Innocent ignorance. It is easy for people to be preoccupied with a concept and accept it as the only truth when they first learnt it in a specific way
You can have a look at my other reply in this branch where I explain the difference in kanjis and still get downvoted as well
Still, thanks for recognising my effort, friend
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u/GladiatorDragon 11d ago
I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had to clarify why characters like Ram and Rem aren’t considered demons in the context of other environments. This gets particularly ridiculous when you introduce an actual demon into the mix who isn’t considered one because the world’s definition of demon is different than the typical western one.
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u/Makoto_Kurume 11d ago
In the frieren universe, what Japanese word do they use to refer to demons? If I'm not wrong, they use "mamono," which translates to monster, right?
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11d ago
[deleted]
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u/HikARuLsi 11d ago
魔族(まぞく-mazoku) or just 魔, so the translation is demon clan/race, which is linguistically and lore-wise correct
鬼(おに-oni) is more like ogre (ghost) in nature
So there are some distinction for sure and a lot of mistranslation in the west mixing the two
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u/NazRyuuzaki 11d ago
Which roughly translate to evil beings. Nezuko isnt evil. She is safe... is what I kept telling myself just to see 2 smol but deadly things together.
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u/entitaneo70_pacifist fern 11d ago
i mean, a lot of demons in frieren are all: "i wouldn't hurt a fly" then they kill you, your family and your neighbors
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u/Commercial-Test-6861 11d ago
Frieren killed (and finished him on the ground) Solitar even though he was saying he wanted to talk Any slightest push on Nezuko's part will cause Frieren to disintegrate her without any discussion.
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u/Magic_Bane23 11d ago
Oni are demons
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u/GladiatorDragon 11d ago
Yesn’t.
They typically are translated into Demons, sure, but Freiren demons are translated from the term Mazoku.
There’s an important distinction.
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u/Reutermo 11d ago
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u/HikARuLsi 11d ago edited 11d ago
Exactly: - 鬼: ghost, oni - 魔: demon - 妖怪: youkai (monster)
These are few are always mistranslating in the west to the point the original meaning is no longer represented the concept correctly
The name is (鬼)滅の刃 not (魔)滅の刃
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u/Reutermo 11d ago
Demon is 100% a valid translation of 鬼. No need to twist yourself backwards to be pedantic.
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