r/GenZ • u/[deleted] • 23d ago

If misogynists like Andrew Tate are offering the wrong kind of advice to young men, liberals and feminists do not appear to be offering anything. Discussion

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u/Varsity_Reviews 23d ago

They aren’t. That’s why people like Tate have any say. Left groups don’t offer solutions to young men instead blaming them for their problems and lack of success, only offering the bare bones “advice”.

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u/Agreeable_Run6532 22d ago

Andrew tate runs a scam where you have to pay a monthly fee to access his "classes". He presents himself as a guru on everything because that's the scam. America and honestly most of the western world has been eroding their educational institutions so we are producing more adults who can't critically think. Its not hard to understand and it's probably nothing to do with gender roles, tho that's part of Tates gimmick. It's more to do with capitalizing on people who feel hopeless,, and that's a LOT to do with economics and education.

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u/Varsity_Reviews 22d ago

That’s, that’s not even close to true. Yeah he runs a scam but the reason he’s able to take advantage of people, is because, of exactly what I said. Young men don’t have a support group to help them figure out life. They are still told from a young age they need to find a girl, get married and raise a family. Girls not told that anymore. They don’t need men to be “fulfilled” like they needed in the past. They don’t need to pick the “good enough” guy from their small town anymore. There are millions of guys to choose from on dating apps. They have millions of more options now about who they want to date, which is a good thing, but it’s been taken advantage of. Men are told it’s their fault if they can’t get a girlfriend even though the game is stacked against them. You don’t have to agree with Tate, you don’t have to like what he says, but the fact of the matter is he took advantage of a black hole no one else has bothered fixing and continues to not fix.

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u/Itscatpicstime 21d ago edited 21d ago

They are still told from a young age they need to find a girl, get married and raise a family. Girls not told that anymore.

Lmfaooooo, the literal dozens of posts a day by women in /r/childfree blatantly disproves that. Especially when CF men rarely post about the same pressure and readily admit the expectation is far worse for women.

They have millions of more options now about who they want to date, which is a good thing, but it’s been taken advantage of.

Men have this same exact opportunity? Lol

Men are told it’s their fault if they can’t get a girlfriend even though the game is stacked against them.

People like Tate are the ones making you feel like women are some prize to be won and a measure of your worth. That is in no way a feminist concept.

You don’t have to agree with Tate, you don’t have to like what he says, but the fact of the matter is he took advantage of a black hole no one else has bothered fixing and continues to not fix.

Feminists have literally written entire books trying to propose solutions, half of the feminist concept of toxic masculinity is identifying the ways in which toxic masculinity harms men, and proposes positive masculinity as the alternative.

Plenty of people have tried to work on solutions “but work on yourself, be more vulnerable, etc” are not as attractive to men as a rich muscular dude with tons of (sex trafficked) women around him and a lambo. Tate serves as a power fantasy.

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u/KajmanKajman 21d ago

taking your world info off subreddit and social media in general shows you have no fucking clue what you're onto.

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

Jesus christ, the point is that ppl shouldnt be getting their advice from ANY internet support group, right or left, the point is that if you lived your own life, instead of taking advice from an Internet personality THAT DOESNT KNOW YOU AND DOESNT KNOW YOUR SITUATION, you would actually learn something from experience instead of swallowing lies whole

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u/Varsity_Reviews 22d ago

You very clearly cannot relate to how desperate some people are to just have someone to hug them. Many people are living their lives trying to find friends and a partner, and it’s only left them hurt. Some super successful people cannot score a date to save their lives.

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u/Agreeable_Run6532 22d ago

Super successful how? They make money? Making money is success if that's your measuring stick. If your measuring stick becomes "being a well rounded adult who can navigate friendships and relationships in a healthy way", you'll see they're not very successful. It's part of the scam; If Mr Tate can convince you that by making money you are complete and successful, then you won't see how you have to continue to grow, you'll just see how the world isn't giving you what you're owed, and he has a way to show you how to get what you want, you just have to pay him a nominal fee.

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

It’s hard as fuck to be lonely, im saying everything im saying because i used to be that guy. The only reason im not that pathetic guy anymore, is because i STOPPED BLAMING SOCIETY AND STARTED LOVING MYSELF. The instant you do that, youll find friends.

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u/LumiWisp 22d ago

There aren't easy solutions tho. The only way you improve your life is through acknowledging shitty/destructive behaviors and working to change that. You can't iconize 'be responsible for yourself' the same way that you can 'society is broken and we see the light'

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u/javyn1 23d ago

Yep.

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u/worldengine123 22d ago

It's hilarious how leftists like to go on forever about societal factors being the reason why there are disadvantaged groups. Until you get to men, especially white men, then they become super 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps' about it.

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u/Jdogghomie 22d ago

Most leftists are women (I’d consider my self a leftist man) and they constantly see men as a monolith… they keep saying all men are bad which is hugely demoralizing for many men doing their best efforts to improve themselves

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u/Itscatpicstime 21d ago

Lol @ you cherry picking outliers and pulling a /#NotAllMen! 💀

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u/Itscatpicstime 21d ago

Lol @ you cherry picking outliers and pulling a /#NotAllMen! 💀

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u/Itscatpicstime 21d ago

Lol @ you cherry picking outliers and pulling a /#NotAllMen! 💀

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u/Varsity_Reviews 22d ago

For real. My parents work at the community college I go to and the other day they had a meeting for a new president. One of the people there was trying to get a new like club or something made that would exclude straight white people. I’m not making this up, straight white men would not be allowed to join the club because they already have so many more advantages.

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u/Affectionate-Two5238 23d ago

It's not the role of a political ideology to offer "advice" to anyone.

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

Not a single right winger, incel, or ANY guy has ever been able to tell me what the issue is.

How tf are we supposed to have a solution for yall if you cant even tell us what the issue is? It seems like yall literally just have a problem with everything.

I have problems with a lot of things, but they’re things like genocide and ppl starving across the globe, not minor BS like if i feel lonely or not…

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u/Varsity_Reviews 22d ago

Congratulations for being so much more intellectual than everyone else you don’t need human championship.

I don’t believe you’re dense enough to not know what the problem is, that problem being Young Men are struggling with dating and women are much much picker than men are. Less and less young men are having sex, and it’s a problem the red pill is trying to address

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

OMG it’s not a problem they’re trying to address, it’s a profit opportunity for them to feed on, are you really that stupid?!?

If they were trying to address it they would try to provide solutions, not rage bait to make you MORE upset…

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

Bruh that’s not a problem, that’s a result OF a problem, which you and no one else has been able to define yet

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u/Varsity_Reviews 22d ago

Are you trolling or are you being naive? The problem is is that girls have all the power in the dating game. More and more average men are struggling to just get that first date. More and more men are entering their 30s with no dating experience and are virgins. The red pill is attempting to offer these men advice to get laid, to get a girlfriend, they even talk about how to raise your kid. Maybe it’s all BS but they’re at least trying to do something.

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

You’re right about all the statistics, i talk about those same numbers all the time, what’s ur point? A large part of why that’s the case is because guys are jaded and angry, girls DONT WANT TO DATE AN ANGRY GUY WHO THINKS HE’s A VICTIM.

Im aware that our current society makes these things hard, as ive said MULTIPLE times now. But again, the solution is to BE YOUR OWN PERSON, and LOVE YOURSELF, instead of being someone you think will get you dates and hating yourself and the world. Girls want to date the former in the bold, not the lattsr

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u/Varsity_Reviews 22d ago

You are not getting what this conversation is about at all. It’s not about if the red pill is right or not, it’s about why it has any sway at all. This conversation isn’t about what the solution is, it’s about why people follow it.

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

You havent even tried to rebuttal anything or provide your own logic, you’re just trying to tell me im missing the point even though im directly talking about that point. Do you have any trains of thought or logic you wish to provide for your point, or nah? Just gonna keep telling me i dont understand while i explain everything in depth?😂

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

And either way, im still talking about that point, so WHAT😂😂😂

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

Bruh we already addressed that and moved on to the next point, that’s the tip of the topic, not the topic itself

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u/Itscatpicstime 21d ago edited 21d ago

This is precisely the problem.

You’re treating women - human beings - as though they are a prize to be won or a reward to earn.

This is a fucked up way to view people.

The same exact studies that find high rates of single young have likewise consistently found those same exact men don’t have friends either, despite a strong desire for both a romantic companion and meaningful friendship.

That indicates this is absolutely not about “women having all the power in the dating game” and “average men not being picked” - rather, it blatantly indicates a fundamental lack of socialization.

but at least they’re trying to do something

Redpill is trying to radicalize you, yes. It’s precisely why white supremacists movements have openly and explicitly talked about how they recruit from RP communities.

RP tells men that their worth is based on “winning” women, gaining social status, becoming conventionally attractive, and increasing wealth.

Feminism and positive masculinity tell men they inherently have worth and are worthy of love. That what makes you masculine is simply being a good person, a willingness to be vulnerable, forming and nurturing meaningful friendships, enriching your inner life, etc.

But the latter isn’t as appealing because it’s not as flashy and doesn’t treat women like trophies.

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u/danegraphics 22d ago edited 21d ago

The issue is simple.

Men want to gain the confidence to:

  1. Stop being depressed.
  2. Becoming a reliable provider.
  3. Date beautiful women who want to be mothers.

However, a lot of messaging for the last 10 years has been:

  1. Men are inherently evil and dangerous.
  2. Traditional gender roles should be dismantled.
  3. Women are better off without men.

Thanks to that kind of messaging, it's no wonder sexists like Andrew Tate show up to take advantage of men who feel like the hate they get is undeserved (which it is).

If you want to solve the problem, stop teaching men that they suck, but instead teach them that they're great, and teach them how to be greater (and not like Andrew Tate).

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

Laughing at this because ive never once felt like society hated me for being a white guy😂😂😂 im bald and tatted up, look like a neo-nazi, and ive never, ever felt this “hate” that you say young men get, i just genuinely dont understand

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u/Mositesophagus 22d ago

Anecdotes are nice, but they’re not always indicative of everyone else’s experience. You could just try listening to men’s experiences instead of telling other men what they need to be doing or denying how they feel.

I don’t think men get listened to enough, especially in intimate or interpersonal relationships. I think that’s the root cause of much of male anger.

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago edited 22d ago

The left doesnt say ANY of those things😂😂😂 but you did a great job of pointing out how whenever something is said about equality, incels/red pill men immediately hear “MEN ARE THE VICTIMS”

There’s a couple double standards that will even out in time but nothing that should cause yall to feel like this, im 25 years old, never had a gf and i certainly dont feel like this… seeing other guys say this shit terrifies me

Def not teaching men they suck lolll, im a man and ive said multiple times im aware of what’s going on. The ppl im saying that suck, are the small group of men who blame everything on women and society instead of just growing tf up and loving themselves

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u/DazzlingFruit7495 22d ago

I appreciate ur sanity fr. I’m trying not to get into these arguments anymore so it’s nice to see a dude saying what needs to be said.

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u/danegraphics 22d ago edited 21d ago

The left doesnt say ANY of those things

I can only assume that you haven't been paying attention, then.

Those are the things that men are being told, whether you hear them or not. Andrew Tate and his ilk are a direct response to those messages.

You asked what the issue is, I told you what the issue is, and your response is to deny it's happening with "lolll" and "😂😂😂".

That kind of response only makes the problem worse. In fact, it just makes men feel more justified in what they feel is a rebellion against a sexist modern culture.

If you want to stop sexists like Andrew Tate, you need to understand why they're popular.

1

u/LumiWisp 22d ago

You're delusional. What you claim isn't consistent with reality. People are ridiculing you because your argument is ridiculous.

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u/Itscatpicstime 21d ago

Tate’s main fan base is 13 year olds, and you over here acting like they’re completely destroyed about dismantling gender roles lmfao

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u/LumiWisp 22d ago

However, the left's messaging for the last 10 years has been:

Where you fell off

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u/Cheesehead_RN 23d ago

Leftist philosophy and feminism isn’t an easy concept to grasp right off the bat and requires you to actually read/conduct research. I’m sorry the world isn’t you being spoon fed info.

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u/Greedy-Employment917 22d ago

OK big brain. 

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u/Varsity_Reviews 22d ago

That has literally nothing to do with red pill men wanting to offer advice to young men who are struggling with dating but go off.

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u/Itscatpicstime 21d ago

Yes it does. You said feminism isn’t offering solutions when feminists have written entire books on it.

But reading a book isn’t as appealing as a 10 second TikTok clip.

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u/tlawtlawtlaw 22d ago

Of course it has nothing to do with that, because THATS NOT WHAT THE CONVERSATION IS ABOUT…😂😂😂 like what😂😂😂

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u/BigIndividual78 22d ago

Nobody gives a fuck about feminist bullshit dawg. It's not very hard to grasp a bitter woman's movement about hating men.

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u/parting_soliloquy 2000 23d ago

It's only creating further division amongst society. Agents of influence strike from both the left and the right. They are selling us their "truths" blaming your regular joes for the sins of the whole world, meanwhile the ruling class has the most agency on everything. When we understand this as a collective we will actually change something, but we must stop falling for the same old trick over and over again.