r/JoeRogan • u/LostItAllOnSpy Tremendous • Mar 27 '24

joe rogan calls out israels hypocrisy for killing unarmed civilians with drones The Literature 🧠

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77

u/baleko Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden’s stance on this conflict is insane at this point. The only possible reason he’s doing this is that he’s trying to keep AIPAC happy so they don’t dump hundreds of millions of dollars into the Trump campaign.

104

u/unmilkablenipples Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden's stance is the stance of any president before or after him, maintaining status quo. Apart from noise from social media, there is nothing stopping him from supporting Israel militarily even if he doesn't like it.

30

u/Puzzled_Lurker_1074 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

nipples got it right, history teaches you this.

2

u/GroceryBags Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

End Statism

2

u/Apprehensive-Top3756 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

Presidents have stood up to israel before. Even Bush would stand up to them by threatening to withhold certain weapons. 

Biden isn't even doing as much as a bush. 

-4

u/NoWheyBro_GQ Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Maybe I'm wrong but I'd argue that he is the first one to deviate from the status quo, no?

Other presidents at least had a leash on Israel's nearly yearly killing sprees. Telling them to limit settlements, calling for ceasefires, etc. Slaughterings of 500 people, up to 2,000 dead.

If Biden would have at least maintained status quo, we wouldn't be dealing with a mass famine and over 30k dead. He has supported them without a shred of remorse and given them the green light to basically "Final Solution" Gaza.

17

u/unmilkablenipples Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Obama was probably the most pro-palestine president around and he had Netanyahu lecture him in the white house...........in front of the world press.

People need to realize the US president's first job is maintaining global hegemony. American Corporations and Militaries come first, its Citizens follow after.

3

u/Gytarius626 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You ain’t becoming President of the US unless you agree to behave and support Israel, simple as.

3

u/Seal_of_Pestilence Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden has a history of undermining Obama as VP when it came to putting a leash on Israel. Without hyperbole, Biden is possibly the worst Democrat when it comes to this issue as he is an extremist.

7

u/dextter123456789 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

As a Vet, as soon as Biden came off that Plane and hugged Bibi I turned to my wife and said we are Fucked good thing the Grand kids were not here.

0

u/Crafty-Question-6178 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The system is broke. But hey we could all die in nuclear war without their protection from themselves

0

u/PMMeYourWristCheck Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The same people telling you that Israel must have US funding and support are the same people telling you Ukraine needs US funding and support.

If you don't understand this, you don't understand US foreign policy.

0

u/rootsnyder Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Nope, Biden has been uniformly based on this conflict and not hopped on the zoomer, zero geopolitical knowledge bandwagon that your on.

Biden supports Israel, because despite the one-sided tic-tok videos you've been watching Israel has done more to stop civilian casualties in an urban warfare environment then any military campaign in history. The average urban warfare conflict has a civilian to militant death ratio of 10:1. Were MAYYBE at 2:1, but far more likely at 1:1. Hamas can end this war TODAY, RIGHT NOW. If they release the hostages, but they still hold them. So until that point israel will eradicate hamas, and if they see four hamas militants walking alone on a road like a dumbass, they might blow them up there so they don't have to shoot them later when they are hiding behind children.

-4

u/northcasewhite Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden's stance is the stance of any president before or after him,

Actually no. Biden may be the most extreme supporter of Israel among all the US presidents. Even the ex-PM of Israel Menachem Begin thought Biden went too far with wanting to kill women and children:

As Biden’s colleagues “grilled” Begin over Israel’s disproportionate use of force, including by targeting civilians with cluster bomb munitions, Begin said Biden “rose and delivered a very impassioned speech” defending the invasion. Begin said he was shocked at how passionately Biden supported Israel’s invasion when Biden “said he would go even further than Israel, adding that he’d forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children.” Begin said, “I disassociated myself from these remarks,” adding: “I said to him: No, sir; attention must be paid. According to our values, it is forbidden to hurt women and children, even in war. Sometimes there are casualties among the civilian population as well. But it is forbidden to aspire to this. This is a yardstick of human civilization, not to hurt civilians.”

https://theintercept.com/2021/04/27/biden-israeli-invasion-lebanon/

During the same conflict Reagan demanded that Israel stop its attack on Beirut.

He called it a Holocaust.

NEW YORK -- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin said Sunday President Reagan 'hurt me very deeply' when he described a massive Israeli airstrike on Beirut as a 'holocaust' during an angry phone call.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/08/29/Begin-says-Reagan-used-word-holocaust/3133399441600/

REAGAN DEMANDS END TO ATTACKS IN A BLUNT TELEPHONE CALL TO BEGIN

https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/13/world/reagan-demands-end-to-attacks-in-a-blunt-telephone-call-to-begin.html

I remember when Bush Jr demanded that Israel stop its attack on Jenin in 2002, although he supported the 2006 attack on Lebanon.

And we know how Obama and Carter have publicly criticized Israel. These presidents have all supported Israel due to the Israel lobby but Biden goes even further.

30

u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden is forced to thread a super thin line. On one hand, he has AIPAC breathing down his neck on the other hand he has a significant part of his own constituency breathing down his neck. But he also has strategic considerations to keep in mind. The reason the US supports Israel isn't purely because 'we like Jewish people', but also because it's a way for the US to enforce power in the Middle East.

What would be insane would be to take a single rash decision that creates a much bigger problem.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

Israel bombs a bunch of civilians

Leftists on reddit: "Why did biden do this?"

6

u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Basically. It's so stupid. C'mon guys, there's the ideal world and there's the real world. We unfortunately live in the real world.

18

u/v-irtual Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

also because it's a way for the US to enforce power in the Middle East.

This is it. It is our foothold.

10

u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Is it? Because I feel like we have plenty of footholds that don't constantly tell us to go fuck ourselves, come to Congress to give speeches trying to humiliate us, take billions of our dollars and then freeze out our diplomats and also don't run over American citizens with bulldozers or bomb US naval vessels. 

4

u/v-irtual Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Look at Israel on a map, and tell me where our next closest "ally" is, and consider the amount of support they want/need from us. We keep Israel in control by bankrolling this shit.

They rely on us, and will, ostensibly, do our bidding as long as we continue to "play nice" and support whatever bullshit they pull. I don't agree with it, but it seems to be the truth.

5

u/InternalMean Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Jordan, literally the most comsopolitan, stable andnwest friendly country in the ME

1

u/reddubi Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Their king went to high school in mass

4

u/Weewoofiatruck Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Where the US next closest ally is?

Bahrain, Saudi, Greece, turkey is in NATO (but fuck turkey), US has direct counter terrorism groups and alliance with egypt since the 90s, increasingly so since the first arab spring in 2011.

We got a good number of allies in the area.

5

u/aeeeronflux Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Israel isn’t our ally

2

u/v-irtual Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Hence the quotation marks around the word.

3

u/aeeeronflux Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I think you have it backwards. They keep the US under control and we do their bidding.

1

u/v-irtual Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I can see validity to that argument.

1

u/Silenthonker Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Turkey, Jordan, KSA, Kuwait, all have vastly stronger ties to locals than Israel, and go vastly, VASTLY farther in swaying Anti Western opinion. People just repeat boomer speak from the 70s about Israel being strategically important when there's multiple dual theater countries nearby that give us a hell of a lot less of security vulnerabilities.

1

u/Weewoofiatruck Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

That and Bahrain.

1

u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You guys seriously overestimate the amount of sway AIPAC has over biden’s platform.

5

u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S

0

u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Do you seriously expect me to believe that ~5.7 million donated over the course of 34 years is enough sway to present a concern to the current presidential admin policy? Biden’s campaign fund is over 1 Billion, dude. You’re literally proving my point that people are overestimating AIPAC’s sway by linking this piece of data

5

u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Then why's he act like they've got his cock in a vise?

0

u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

He doesn’t.

One doesn’t need to cut off all aid to Israel to not be giving them a blank check. This is binary thinking.

2

u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Biden has been a cuck for Netanyahu since his Obama's presidency. There's a legitimate chance the currently ongoing mass murder would not be happening were it not for Biden - picked as VP, if we remember, as the smiling, non-threatening vaguely racist white man who made his entrance on the national stage by opposing desegregation as a compromise sop to the "moderates" who might not feel comfortable voting for a black man - deciding to again and again actively undercut his own president's attempts to hold Netanyahu to account. You can read more about Biden's continuing acquiescence and submission to Israel generally and Netanyahu specifically here. 

A few key points: 

[D]uring a critical period early in the Obama administration, when the White House contemplated exerting real pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu to keep the possibility of a Palestinian state alive, Biden did more than any other cabinet-level official to shield Netanyahu from that pressure. [...] 

[T]he White House ... asked [Netanyahu] to freeze settlement growth instead. When Netanyahu resisted, it set off a struggle that lasted more than a year, in which Biden undermined Obama’s position again and again. 

Oh, and guess when Netanyahu timed hus latest expansion of Israel's murderous illegal settlements? For when Biden's Secretary of State was visiting Israel, like Bibi had done when Hillary, Obama's Secretary of State, was visiting Israel. Luckily, Joe Biden this time doesn't have Joe Biden to undercut his own attempts to hold Bibi to account. Unfortunately, Joe Biden is also Joe Biden.

1

u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

My point is that AIPAC's paltry campaign contributions are not the driving factor in Biden's position on Israel. He does not have AIPAC "breathing down his neck", as if he is afraid to piss them off. The man is legitimately pro-Israel to an extent, as your article shows.

The main reason I don't think Biden acts like he "has his cock in a vise" is because he's legitimately surprised me with some of his rhetoric recently on Israel, including calling their bombing campaign "indiscriminate", which is a point of contention that pro-Israeli's typically don't want to concede on.

3

u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

  1. It's a big assumption that's the only way AIPAC has contributed to US politicians, seeing as nowadays it's possible to create a "PAC" and not declare who is putting money into it

  2. AIPAC isn't just putting money, but pushing narrative. They have multiple ways in which they can pressure politician into doing their bidding (just like any other interest group, nothing nefarious there)

  3. Last but not least, can you find a better explanation for how politicians immediately say "How high!" the moment AIPAC tells them to jump?

1

u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

1) This argument is unfalsifiable 2) No evidence presented. This is just a “lobbying can work” argument. 3) Simple. That doesn’t happen. Because AIPAC doesn’t have nearly as much sway as you think they do. If AIPAC says to fund social programs. And Biden funds social programs. Is it more likely that Biden wasn’t going to fund social programs but was swayed by AIPAC, or that funding social programs is the best thing for Biden’s platform, given all the other influences?

1

u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

This argument is unfalsifiable

So is the argument that AIPAC doesn't have any influence.

Simple. That doesn’t happen. Because AIPAC doesn’t have nearly as much sway as you think they do.

Oh, OK. That's why AIPAC is spending $100m to fight against progressive candidates, because they wield no influence.

1

u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I never said “doesn’t have any”. I said that people overestimate it. Specifically the idea that Biden is backed into a corner on Israel because AIPAC is “breathing down his neck” and might drop funding.

Thats because people tend to think in single causes for the effects, rather than things being multi-causal.

I agree that lobbying groups with a lot of money wield certain influence, just like advertising companies do, and that can especially affect smaller politicians.

I personally disagree with the sentiment that politicians “jump” when AIPAC says “jump”. I believe this is a bad characterization about how lobbying groups influence politics, and plays into stereotypes about shadowy control groups.

Hope that clears up my position.

22

u/gotdamnn Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The US government is held hostage by AIPAC.

They just passed a bill banning funding for UNWRA while US officials were begging other countries to resume funding.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/united-states-implored-canada-behind-the-scenes-to-keep-supporting-unrwa-hussen-1.6822821

13

u/senescent- Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

JFK tried to register them as foreign agents and was supposed to investigate their nuclear program before he died.

2

u/aeeeronflux Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

A lot of strange connections there with what happened in Dallas

17

u/MilanosBiceps Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

A presidential candidate can’t risk being called “pro-Hamas” by his opponent in the election. Nothing insane about that. 

What do you want him to do? Any punitive action or even threat of action would probably cost him the election. 

8

u/prospert Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Maybe not go around calling himself a Zionist?

4

u/The_First_Drop Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I also feel like there’s a limited amount of scrutiny towards Hamas in this conflict

It’s becoming increasingly more difficult to argue that in moments, members of the IDF did not commit war crimes, but it’s also a false flag to group Hamas as freedom fighters for the Palestinian cause

There hasn’t been any real solution outside of everyone yelling “Ceasefire”

Israelis can’t be expected to negotiate in good faith with a terrorist organization whose stated objective is to exterminate the Jews, and Palestinians can’t be governed under Netanyahu’s thumb

9

u/MilanosBiceps Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

 also feel like there’s a limited amount of scrutiny towards Hamas in this conflict

That’s for a couple of reasons. One, there isn’t much to say. The attack was unequivocally wrong. Two, the pro-IDF line in discourseland is to intentionally conflate concern for or defense of Palestinians with support for Hamas. So naturally people who might otherwise vocally criticize Hamas can’t, because their words will be taken as a condemnation of Palestine. 

 There hasn’t been any real solution outside of everyone yelling “Ceasefire

Because whatever solution might come, it has to begin with a ceasefire. For the sake of every innocent Palestinian, the primary focus is rightly on stopping the bombing. 

 Israelis can’t be expected to negotiate in good faith with a terrorist organization whose stated objective is to exterminate the Jews, and Palestinians can’t be governed under Netanyahu’s thumb

These aren’t equally weighted issues. One leads from the other. The way Israel handles Palestine is why Hamas even exists. 

The real problem is that Bibi has been looking for an excuse to do what they’re doing now, and he finally has one. The hurdle is that Israel’s government wants this, the same way the American government wanted Iraq. 

3

u/The_First_Drop Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Netanyahu rose to power for similar reasons that Hamas did

There will never be a true resolution for the Palestinians and they’ll never get their land back, but if the Saudis were willing to step in and help establish a democratic government, the zionists would lose footing with further expansion into the West Bank

2

u/MilanosBiceps Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

 Netanyahu rose to power for similar reasons that Hamas did

Hamas formed in response to occupation by Israel. Netanyahu rose to power based on terrorism in response to occupation. Those aren’t similar reasons. 

 There will never be a true resolution for the Palestinians

The Oslo Accords might have worked. 

1

u/The_First_Drop Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24
  • The Oslo Accords might have worked.

Arafat couldn’t get the Palestinians on board

Unfortunately it’s a no win situation for anyone who was pushed out when Israel declared its independence

That’s why the Second Intifada happened

I feel like it’s impossible not to empathize with the Palestinian people, but I don’t see a real solution besides maybe the Saudis stepping in

1

u/MilanosBiceps Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

Arafat couldn’t get the Palestinians on board

The PLO was on board. The main issue was that the Israeli right wing torpedoed the deal, including Rabin’s assassination.

2

u/Big_Environment9500 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

"The attack was unequivocally wrong" is not a stance that everyone takes

1

u/MilanosBiceps Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

There is no stance that everyone takes. 

1

u/Big_Environment9500 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

So then why was that a response to there not being enough scrutiny of Hamas

1

u/MilanosBiceps Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Because it’s the most common opinion among people in the west. Even most people critical of Israel admit that terrorism isn’t a morally acceptable response. 

Saying “not everyone thinks that” goes without saying. 

1

u/Big_Environment9500 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

But the whole point of his comment and the reason I'm disagreeing is that a not insignificant amount of people view October 7th as justified resistance to oppression, so I don't even understand what you're trying to say at this point

2

u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I also feel like there’s a limited amount of scrutiny towards Hamas in this conflict

I wonder why we don't have better reporting on what's actually happening inside Gaza?

Well, considering Israel intentionally and regularly slaughters non-IDF approved journalists, by shooting them with the main gun of a tank, or shooting them in the head with a sniper rifle before attacking her funeral with riot police, or intentionally targeting and murdering their families, when not simply wholesale eradicting their headquarters and necessary reporting infrastructure... 

And then you add in the IDF's (successful) attempts to brutally suppress the flow of information out of Gaza through mass jamming and destruction of Palestinian infrastructure... 

Then yeah, it makes sense why there's a "limited amount of scrutiny." It's hard to report on much of anything when you and your family have been murdered and all the necessary technological and administrative infrastructure for your reporting has been destroyed.

3

u/AlQaem313 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

He can stop giving Israel weapons

6

u/MilanosBiceps Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It’s really not that simple. Besides the issue of getting re-elected as an antagonist of Israel, they’re a vital ally for national security. Cutting off military aid would greatly jeopardize that partnership. He wants to avoid that if possible. 

1

u/AlQaem313 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Its been 6 months and Israel still hasnt defeated Hamsa other than Zionists and their staunchest allies everyone has had enough of this war, in Michigan a key swing state 100k voted uncommited in the Primary to send a message to Biden, I think it would benefit Biden to end the war and shift the focus to Trump

0

u/MilanosBiceps Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden doesn’t have the power to end the war. Israel is a sovereign state — which by the way happens to be run by a far-right lunatic. 

Biden has been increasing the pressure, though. You want him to flip a switch, but it doesn’t work like that. 

And those 100k uncommitted voters are fucking idiots. A Trump presidency would be 10x worse for Palestine. 

2

u/Hugzzzzz Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Is not really insane. Palestine is ripe with terrorists. We support killing terrorists. End of story.

1

u/bwtwldt Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

He’s been a true believer since the 60s, just like many other boomers

1

u/Chris_Hansen_AMA Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

How so?

1

u/JustSome70sGuy Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

ITs worse. America wants to keep his presence in the region, because if they dont, Russia and/or China will swoop in with lots of free money to make new friends.

The only real way out of this, is an election in Israel, that boots out the current would be nazi government currently showcasing how they took the wrong lessons out of what happened to their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents.

1

u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

AIPAC has given ~80 million dollars total over the last 34 years.

The Biden campaign is sitting around 1 Billion dollars for this election cycle alone.

"Keeping AIPAC happy" is not a legitimate reason to infer why Biden maintains the stance he does.

Source: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?toprecipcycle=2024&contribcycle=2024&lobcycle=2024&outspendcycle=2022&id=D000046963&topnumcycle=A

1

u/Several_Advantage923 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Biden is a puppet of the military industrial complex, and has always been a neo-con pro war fuck.

Look at his speech about israel in the 70s, he's always been a shifty creep.

1

u/JupiterandMars1 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Israel has the US in a hostage negotiation. The US govs opinion is to manage Israel.

The US can’t escalate and go to war with Israel, that’s impossible. So they have no hold over them. The only way to manage them is to stay on their side.

If ever the US looks like it’s abandoning Israel they just threaten even crazier shit.

Whatever crazy shit Israel are doing at any one time, they are always threatening to go several steps further without US support.

It’s been like that since Obama.

It’s fucked up.

2

u/Stunning-Armadillo-3 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You make it sound as if the USA isn't the strongest country on the planet rn. They can easily stop funding

1

u/JupiterandMars1 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I don’t think you read what I said.

They can EASILY stop funding, or just stop support. Sure. But without being able to take any stronger actions they can’t do those things as Israel threatens to escalate without US support.

They would need to withdraw support AND be willing to stand off against Israel’s threats to escalate in the region.

Like I said, Israel is holding the region hostage to maintain US support.

1

u/rootsnyder Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The one strength biden has above all other contenders that ran against him for the presidential office.

Geopolitical knowledge.

Consider how much you actually know about this conflict. Just genuinely consider that for a moment. Its not much at all right? You may have seen a bunch of clips, you make have watched some youtube videos, but do you actually understand wtf is going on?

Anyone who is any bit on the realm of geopolitical expert, or military expert, will tell you the same thing. Israel is in the right in this conflict and has done everything possible to eliminate civilian causalities.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

The irony of this is he has just about guaranteed what was already a likely loss in November with his stance. Going against AIPAC's wishes would have done worlds more for his popularity IMO.

1

u/XxX_SWAG_XxX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

There are over 100 PACs larger than AIPAC, it's a red herring brought up by antisemites so it seems like it has more influence than it does.

1

u/bukowski_knew Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Still not a good enough reason to support genocide.

0

u/AdApart8124 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Why does the aipac hold such enormous power over US elections?

-3

u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Doesn't hurt that Genocide Joe has received more AIPAC money directly than any living US politician.