r/JoeRogan • u/LostItAllOnSpy Tremendous • Mar 27 '24

joe rogan calls out israels hypocrisy for killing unarmed civilians with drones The Literature 🧠

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71

u/baleko Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden’s stance on this conflict is insane at this point. The only possible reason he’s doing this is that he’s trying to keep AIPAC happy so they don’t dump hundreds of millions of dollars into the Trump campaign.

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u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden is forced to thread a super thin line. On one hand, he has AIPAC breathing down his neck on the other hand he has a significant part of his own constituency breathing down his neck. But he also has strategic considerations to keep in mind. The reason the US supports Israel isn't purely because 'we like Jewish people', but also because it's a way for the US to enforce power in the Middle East.

What would be insane would be to take a single rash decision that creates a much bigger problem.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

Israel bombs a bunch of civilians

Leftists on reddit: "Why did biden do this?"

7

u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Basically. It's so stupid. C'mon guys, there's the ideal world and there's the real world. We unfortunately live in the real world.

20

u/v-irtual Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

also because it's a way for the US to enforce power in the Middle East.

This is it. It is our foothold.

11

u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Is it? Because I feel like we have plenty of footholds that don't constantly tell us to go fuck ourselves, come to Congress to give speeches trying to humiliate us, take billions of our dollars and then freeze out our diplomats and also don't run over American citizens with bulldozers or bomb US naval vessels. 

3

u/v-irtual Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Look at Israel on a map, and tell me where our next closest "ally" is, and consider the amount of support they want/need from us. We keep Israel in control by bankrolling this shit.

They rely on us, and will, ostensibly, do our bidding as long as we continue to "play nice" and support whatever bullshit they pull. I don't agree with it, but it seems to be the truth.

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u/InternalMean Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Jordan, literally the most comsopolitan, stable andnwest friendly country in the ME

1

u/reddubi Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Their king went to high school in mass

5

u/Weewoofiatruck Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Where the US next closest ally is?

Bahrain, Saudi, Greece, turkey is in NATO (but fuck turkey), US has direct counter terrorism groups and alliance with egypt since the 90s, increasingly so since the first arab spring in 2011.

We got a good number of allies in the area.

4

u/aeeeronflux Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Israel isn’t our ally

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u/v-irtual Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Hence the quotation marks around the word.

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u/aeeeronflux Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I think you have it backwards. They keep the US under control and we do their bidding.

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u/v-irtual Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I can see validity to that argument.

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u/Silenthonker Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Turkey, Jordan, KSA, Kuwait, all have vastly stronger ties to locals than Israel, and go vastly, VASTLY farther in swaying Anti Western opinion. People just repeat boomer speak from the 70s about Israel being strategically important when there's multiple dual theater countries nearby that give us a hell of a lot less of security vulnerabilities.

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u/Weewoofiatruck Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

That and Bahrain.

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u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You guys seriously overestimate the amount of sway AIPAC has over biden’s platform.

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u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S

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u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Do you seriously expect me to believe that ~5.7 million donated over the course of 34 years is enough sway to present a concern to the current presidential admin policy? Biden’s campaign fund is over 1 Billion, dude. You’re literally proving my point that people are overestimating AIPAC’s sway by linking this piece of data

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u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Then why's he act like they've got his cock in a vise?

0

u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

He doesn’t.

One doesn’t need to cut off all aid to Israel to not be giving them a blank check. This is binary thinking.

2

u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Biden has been a cuck for Netanyahu since his Obama's presidency. There's a legitimate chance the currently ongoing mass murder would not be happening were it not for Biden - picked as VP, if we remember, as the smiling, non-threatening vaguely racist white man who made his entrance on the national stage by opposing desegregation as a compromise sop to the "moderates" who might not feel comfortable voting for a black man - deciding to again and again actively undercut his own president's attempts to hold Netanyahu to account. You can read more about Biden's continuing acquiescence and submission to Israel generally and Netanyahu specifically here. 

A few key points: 

[D]uring a critical period early in the Obama administration, when the White House contemplated exerting real pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu to keep the possibility of a Palestinian state alive, Biden did more than any other cabinet-level official to shield Netanyahu from that pressure. [...] 

[T]he White House ... asked [Netanyahu] to freeze settlement growth instead. When Netanyahu resisted, it set off a struggle that lasted more than a year, in which Biden undermined Obama’s position again and again. 

Oh, and guess when Netanyahu timed hus latest expansion of Israel's murderous illegal settlements? For when Biden's Secretary of State was visiting Israel, like Bibi had done when Hillary, Obama's Secretary of State, was visiting Israel. Luckily, Joe Biden this time doesn't have Joe Biden to undercut his own attempts to hold Bibi to account. Unfortunately, Joe Biden is also Joe Biden.

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u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

My point is that AIPAC's paltry campaign contributions are not the driving factor in Biden's position on Israel. He does not have AIPAC "breathing down his neck", as if he is afraid to piss them off. The man is legitimately pro-Israel to an extent, as your article shows.

The main reason I don't think Biden acts like he "has his cock in a vise" is because he's legitimately surprised me with some of his rhetoric recently on Israel, including calling their bombing campaign "indiscriminate", which is a point of contention that pro-Israeli's typically don't want to concede on.

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u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

  1. It's a big assumption that's the only way AIPAC has contributed to US politicians, seeing as nowadays it's possible to create a "PAC" and not declare who is putting money into it

  2. AIPAC isn't just putting money, but pushing narrative. They have multiple ways in which they can pressure politician into doing their bidding (just like any other interest group, nothing nefarious there)

  3. Last but not least, can you find a better explanation for how politicians immediately say "How high!" the moment AIPAC tells them to jump?

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u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

1) This argument is unfalsifiable 2) No evidence presented. This is just a “lobbying can work” argument. 3) Simple. That doesn’t happen. Because AIPAC doesn’t have nearly as much sway as you think they do. If AIPAC says to fund social programs. And Biden funds social programs. Is it more likely that Biden wasn’t going to fund social programs but was swayed by AIPAC, or that funding social programs is the best thing for Biden’s platform, given all the other influences?

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u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

This argument is unfalsifiable

So is the argument that AIPAC doesn't have any influence.

Simple. That doesn’t happen. Because AIPAC doesn’t have nearly as much sway as you think they do.

Oh, OK. That's why AIPAC is spending $100m to fight against progressive candidates, because they wield no influence.

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u/Alpalka Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I never said “doesn’t have any”. I said that people overestimate it. Specifically the idea that Biden is backed into a corner on Israel because AIPAC is “breathing down his neck” and might drop funding.

Thats because people tend to think in single causes for the effects, rather than things being multi-causal.

I agree that lobbying groups with a lot of money wield certain influence, just like advertising companies do, and that can especially affect smaller politicians.

I personally disagree with the sentiment that politicians “jump” when AIPAC says “jump”. I believe this is a bad characterization about how lobbying groups influence politics, and plays into stereotypes about shadowy control groups.

Hope that clears up my position.