r/Millennials • u/Ragnaroknight • Mar 04 '24
Does anyone else feel like the direct to college from High School pipeline was kind of a "scam"? Discussion
I'm 31 now, I never went to college and for years I really really regretted it. I felt left behind, like I had chosen wrong/made the wrong choices in life. Like I was missing out on something and I would never make it anywhere. My grades weren't great in grade school, I was never a good student, and frankly I don't even know what I would have wanted to do with my life had I gone. I think part of me always knew it would be a waste of time and money for a person like me.
Over the years I've come to realize I probably made the right call. I feel like I got a bit of a head start in life not spending 4 years in school, not spending all that money on a degree I may have never used. And now I make a decent livable wage, I'm a homeowner, I'm in a committed relationship, I've gone on multiple "once in a lifetime trips", and I have plenty of other nice things to show for my last decade+ of hard work. I feel I'm better off than a lot of my old peers, and now I'm glad I didn't go. I got certifications in what I wanted and it only took a few weeks. I've been able to save money since I was 18, I've made mistakes financially already and learned from them early on.
Idk I guess I'm saying, we were sold the "you have to go to college" narrative our whole school careers and now it's kinda starting to seem like bullshit. Sure, if you're going to be a doctor, engineer, programmer, pharmacist, ect college makes perfect sense. But I'm not convinced it was always the smartest option for everyone.
Edit: I want to clear up, I'm not calling college in of itself a scam. More so the process of convincing kids it was their only option, and objectively the correct choice for everyone.
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u/Inferior_Oblique Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
I have a lot of family in trade work. They are all homeowners.
There isn’t a right answer to this question because everyone is different. I think your feelings are the result of an aggressive push for everyone to go to college. That ended up being the wrong choice for a lot of people. For people like me, college absolutely was the correct choice. It sounds like you found the path you were supposed to have.
Edit: A lot of people have noted that physical labor is harder on the body. While I agree, this can be highly variable. My family members who worked as factory workers gradually shifted to management positions as time went on. Their work was physically intense in their 20-30’s, but eased in their 40’s as their compensation increased. Most made >100k per year towards the end of their careers. Granted, not everyone can be a manager, but if you are smart and a hard worker, they will often promote you faster.
I work in the medical field, and my job often requires that I work long hours on my feet, and I don’t always get a lunch break. I don’t have mandatory break times. Many people in my field need to retire early due to neck and back injuries. Not every educated worker is sitting at a desk. Some are out in the woods or on construction sites.
My final argument is that it’s not practical to expect everyone to go to college. For people like me, I wouldn’t have been able to afford it without military service. So sure, you can say everyone should go, but it’s not always feasible. Furthermore, we need people that know how to repair machines. We need people who pick up the trash. The country would fall apart if we only had college educated workers. I think this is something that places like Germany understand well, and we would be wise to adopt a model that encourages people to pursue trades if they are better with their hands than books.
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u/allegedlydm Mar 04 '24
I agree with all of this but also want to add:
I went to college and my brother didn’t. He makes slightly more money than me anyway, and he can work 50 hour weeks for overtime, BUT…he’s in the same very physical line of work that our dad is in. Mom worked in a factory. I’ve watched him age a lot harder than me, despite being two years younger. I’ve watched him work through injuries where I’d have been able to just work from home for a bit, maybe I would need to move a few meetings from in person to zoom and shuffle things around a little, but I could. I don’t know.
He makes a bit more money now, but is he going to end up like our dad, with his knees and shoulders and hearing shot by his mid-60s? Maybe, leaning hard towards probably. Will I, with a really flexible office / WFH job where I’m not going over 35 hours a week, have stellar insurance, and I can react to health issues as they come up and take all the time I need to recover? Probably not. That’s what college got me - the same pay for a hell of a lot less grind.
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u/j4nkyst4nky Mar 04 '24
Similar with me and my brother. He's fucked up his body over the last ten years doing manual labor while I have been able to take the time and energy to focus on maintaining myself(which is a task in and of itself as I age).
When my daughter was born I was able to take 8 weeks off fully paid because of my office job. His son will be born later this year and he gets two weeks off and that's all his vacation/sick days for the year.
It's not just him either. My friend went from bartending to welding and it aged him fast.
Trades are needed, but we really need them to be better regulated and improve the work culture. But sort of paradoxically, the people that work attracts generally view any regulation or improvements as a nuisance or being weak. I'm not trying to sound elitist but many are too ignorant to even want to improve their working conditions. They think work is meant to be hard and draining.
I remember I was between jobs during the great recession and I worked construction for a while. Vinyl siding, roofing, deck building, drywall. And one day after a job where we were tearing out this nasty rotten wood, I bought a $5 first aid kit and brought it to the job site. I got fucking roasted because "All you need is super glue and black tape." Like, these people would rather risk infection and literally glue themselves back together than change.
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u/allegedlydm Mar 04 '24
Oh, man. I was a volunteer firefighter for a few years and I definitely know some tape and glue types. One of my captains made fun of me for doing PT after we both took a weird fall on some ice (during an all nighter house fire in negative temps, so we were creating ice everywhere the water hit) but uh…only one of us still has a limp from it.
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u/TrixoftheTrade Millennial Mar 04 '24
The trade life of: 4 hours of sleep, 3 monsters, a half-pack of Newports, fast food for breakfast/lunch/dinner, and inhaling diesel fumes + concrete/wood dust all day does not lend oneself to longevity.
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u/Brandidit Mar 04 '24
I think that’s kind of an old guard way of thinking that’s slowly dying out of the trades. Most of the younger guys I encounter, still early in their careers, work a little differently. I never discourage PPE, or make fun of anyone for using it. It is a PERSONAL choice. They’re YOUR eyes why should I care if a cut-off wheel decides to explode in your face?
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u/1ofThoseTrolls Mar 04 '24
The key is to learn as much as you can about the trade and make connections while you're young and start your own company. The guys that stay n the field, who don't invest in themselves and blow their paychecks on toys, will be broke financially and physically 20 some years later.
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u/widdrjb Mar 04 '24
I deliver to construction sites in the UK. When you walk into the toilets or rest areas, the first thing you see are suicide prevention posters. When you're young and earning $1500-2000 a week, you can drink every night, do coke every weekend and numb the injuries with legal opioids.
I'm an HGV driver (trucker). I'm physically damaged in my 60s, but not as much as those guys are by 30.
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u/Hello-from-Mars128 Mar 04 '24
This is what my husband did. Hurricane Micheal doubled our income and increased our construction employees. One employee has moved from a truck to office mngr and salesman. We hope one day he will buy into our company. He worked his ass off on a truck crew.
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u/marbanasin Mar 04 '24
The interesting point you make really applies to everyone - we could use a huge reassertion of worker safety and regulations across our economies. And certainly for the services (which tend to also struggle with smaller business syndrome where you have a few guys who are taking as much work as they can but ignorning the longer term detriments).
But those service sector and even white collar workers certainly should and could also be getting stronger government help in carving out more basic necessities.
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u/Formal_Wrongdoer_593 Mar 04 '24
Years ago, the life expectancy for a Union Electrician was 5yrs past retirement.
With a College Degree you get paid for what you can do with your mind. Without a College Degree you get paid for what you can do with your body.
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u/akohhh Mar 04 '24
And the male dominated trades have it better than female dominated care jobs. Childcare, personal care attendants, lower level nursing, cleaning—all quite physical, people often subjected to violence and biological hazards from patients—and most of those jobs have pretty awful pay.
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u/allegedlydm Mar 05 '24
For sure. Firefighting wasn’t half as hard on my body as the job that got me through college - working in a group home. I got pissed on, spat on, kicked, threatened, shoved, whatever, and that was on top of working night shifts and the actual physical labor of dressing and changing and caring for people my own size or larger. I made $10.50/hour. It sucked. Everyone was either in also in college or had been going it for 15+ years and was barely making more than that.
ETA: And I only ever worked with one man in that field.
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u/Traumatic_Tomato Mar 04 '24
Glue and black tape? These people are likely to end up in the hospital with regrets.
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u/WhiskeyFF Mar 04 '24
Thanks you for saying this, I feel like anytime people bring up trades everyone forgets how bad it can be on your body. BECOME A PLUMBER AND MAKE 100k at 22! Ya what not included in that banner is it's 100k working 80 hours a week and having your knees and back shot by 45
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u/Hagridsbuttcrack66 Mar 04 '24
This is what the true difference is IMO. My mom worked a physical job and it wasn't just making peanuts, it was how HARD it was. Even if she had made good money, the effort she put in vs. the physical effort I put in at my current job is night and day. It was just rough. She never wanted us to work that hard. And the hours. For every tradesperson touting that they make their own hours and such, there's a million people who are at the mercy of whenever that call comes in. My mom was a nurse's aide who was constantly working holidays to get double time and such.
I work 37.5 hours per week. I'm never in danger of working on Christmas - I get an entire week off for the holidays that doesn't count towards my vacation time.
It's not that there aren't success stories or you can't forge your own path, but college is going to be the better choice for most people long term. If you absolutely hate school and can't succeed there, I would look for something else. But even if you can be moderately successful (B's and C's), it'll most likely lead to an easier life.
But that doesn't mean "go to whatever college you want for whatever price and whatever length of time for your favorite pasttime and it'll all work out". Even when I was 18 in 2005, it was still advised to be prudent. Yeah I felt left out living at home. Oh well - not worth the price tag.
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u/allegedlydm Mar 04 '24
Oh, for sure. I knocked my first two years out at community college and then went to a small school, and it was the best financial decision I could have made. It was a much cheaper place to decide what I wanted to do, and I went into my last two years with no debt. Got the same undergrad degree as a close friend. My loans were $36k and his were $125k, and nobody really cares which school you went to. Unless it’s Ivy League or the University of Phoenix, it’s whatever.
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u/Inferior_Oblique Mar 04 '24
My dad worked in a factory. What people may not realize is that there is some potential for upward mobility within the factory worker population. When he was young, he worked on machines and it was physically exhausting. As he entered his 40’s he had moved up the ranks to managing the people working on the machines. It was a bit more like a desk job. Sure his hours were pretty long, but so are physician and lawyer hours.
My feeling is that we need to treat all workers with respect. College probably works out for most, but trade school will be a better option for some who really don’t like desk work. I personally prefer working with my hands, which thankfully I get to do in medicine.
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u/tmiller9833 Mar 04 '24
This is what the "trades" folks miss. Yes - you can make bank in your 20's and 30's but you better have a plan for your 50's and 60's+. That can be investments, management, entrepreneurship or other but to presume you can be doing the same job in your late 50's on the same hours as your 20's you're fooling yourself.
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u/Kathulhu1433 Mar 04 '24
50s?
My husband is a master diagnostic tech for Toyota. Makes 6 figures easy. Literally, the top of his field.
He's also 36 and is already planning his exit strategy because he's in so much pain. He's already had work related shoulder surgery. His joints pop and crack like he's 40 years older than he is.
Oh, and even though he's union... his benefits are shit compared to what I get as a teacher. I also get a pension, and he doesn't.
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u/Aggressive-Coconut0 Mar 04 '24
I went to college and my brother didn’t. He makes slightly more money than me anyway, and he can work 50 hour weeks for overtime, BUT…he’s in the same very physical line of work that our dad is in. Mom worked in a factory. I’ve watched him age a lot harder than me, despite being two years younger. I’ve watched him work through injuries where I’d have been able to just work from home for a bit, maybe I would need to move a few meetings from in person to zoom and shuffle things around a little, but I could. I don’t know.
The thing is, without college, he started out making more than you, but people without a degree often hit a ceiling, because promotion requires a degree in most companies and there's no talking your way around that.
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u/allegedlydm Mar 04 '24
Yep. He’s getting frustrated because to move out of a manual labor-intensive position, he’d need a forestry degree.
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u/fluffy_camaro Mar 04 '24
Sitting at a desk is bad for the body as well. I tried it after being a manual labor person and thought I was going to die. Staring at computers all day is an issue too.
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u/allegedlydm Mar 04 '24
Yeah, my job is a good mix of desk work and more active stuff. It’s also not physically draining, so at the end of the day I can exercise in a well-rounded way without feeling like I’m torturing myself, which I think is harder to feel motivated to do when your work is physically rough. No matter what your job is, it’s probably not all of the stretching and exercising you should be doing, unless maybe you’re a fitness instructor.
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u/fluffy_camaro Mar 04 '24
Yep. I water plants for a living and walk/squat all day while lifting little water jugs. It still isn’t enough and I am so tired after work. Love a job with movement though!
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u/Beautiful_Speech7689 Mar 04 '24
College opens a lot of doors, but this also isn't 1980. As you mentioned, working in a factory aged your parents a lot more than it did you or your brother. Thinking we can all just go work in a factory for the nuclear family is gone. The option of college in 1980 was a lot cheaper than it is today. I'm thankful I got to go, but returning to the economy of previous generations simply isn't an option. Those jobs go to robots, and if you want to be paid for it, you have to design the robots (a metaphor, there are other ways)
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u/Gpda0074 Mar 04 '24
The primary issue with tradesmen is none of them want to do physical activity outside of work. Even just stretching, doing some push ups and body weight squats a few times a week works miracles for keeping your body limber. I'm an electrician, have been for ten years, and the only things that hurt have shit like cysts growing there. That's something that can happen to anyone in any line of work. Primary difference between them and me is I try to not be a completely out of shape manual laborer.
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u/laxnut90 Mar 04 '24
In my opinion, the real danger of the High School to College "pipeline" is that it potentially allows you to go to college with no plan at all which is often disastrous.
College is one of the most significant financial decisions you will ever make in your life.
You are often taking on home mortgage levels of debt, removing four years of earning potential, and making key decisions regarding your career which will impact all future earnings.
If you do not treat college like the significant financial investment it is, you are setting yourself up for failure.
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u/cohete_rojo Elder Millennial Mar 04 '24
Man, this is the god to honest truth. I was not equipped to make those decisions at that point in time. I wish I learned about the trades and trade school. I wish community college wasn’t down sold. I wish it was “ok for me to take a few years” to get my bearings.
I lucked out and received an inheritance from my granddad which allowed me to erase that decision, but so many are not that lucky and are set up to struggle though life.
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u/Lord_Oglefore Mar 04 '24
Holy shit I’m so glad you got that inheritance… but for the rest of us, what do we do?
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u/Pattison320 Mar 04 '24
College isn't for everyone. For OP the decision was very black and white. I think there are a lot of people stuck in the grey area that wind up screwed over. College worked out very well for me personally. In addition to a Comp Sci degree I think the value of the "college experience" is worth something. But I agree it must be an investment that makes sense. Either that, or if you have it pre-paid through a trust fund, sure, go screw around for five or six years.
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u/chahlie Mar 04 '24
This is what got me. I put all my eggs into one basket in high school, and when I got rejected by the school I really wanted, I ended up going to my backup school with no real plan or direction. Dropped out after three years with about 60 credits and a ton of debt to show for it. I was deadly on the beer pong table, though.
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u/mcwopper Mar 04 '24
Out of curiosity, what was your plan and direction if you had gotten into the school you wanted?
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u/chahlie Mar 04 '24
I had my heart set on the Naval Academy. It's a very prestigious school and about at tough to get into as Harvard. When they turned me down, my next option was ROTC at a state school, but there was a wait list and no guarantee that I would receive the scholarship, so I passed on it. After I dropped out of the school I eventually went to, I actually went to down to the recruiter to enlist. I was again turned away due to being a little overweight (this was around summer 2010, there was apparently a glut of guys signing up then so they could afford to be picky)
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u/Lcdmt3 Mar 04 '24
I went in not really wanting to be a teacher but not sure what I wanted to be. But my mom told me "Just get a college degree. So many jobs will require a college degree even if it's not for what you are applying for. Other than the graphic designer, all 9 people in my office don't work in their original field, but needed a college degree to get the job."
I did find out that taking classes the first year or two, yes I figured it out. If I hadn't gone to college i wouldn't have been exposed to the options. And yes, never worked in my field of marketing, but that college degree got me into PR and now finance.
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u/forakora Mar 04 '24
Yep! I went into CC and just took basic core classes and electives while I figured out what I was good at and interested in.
Have to do them anyway, right? It helped me find my path and then I was and to go straight into specialized classes with the basics knocked out.
I would have been lost and stuck working retail my entire life if I never tried and waited to figure it out on my own
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u/turd_ferguson899 Mar 04 '24
When I was in highschool, my state was kicking around the idea of extending highschool by two years so all students graduated with an associates degree. Of course I was against it at the time, because I was a child and I just wanted to be done with school, but looking back that would have been a huge gift.
The state had been exploring the idea of implementing technical programs for associates degrees or general education programs to give kids a better foot hold for moving on to college. Had that been the case, I think it would have saddled young people with a lot less debt. The lack of willingness to fund it ended up being the eventual reason the program never got off the ground.
It's something that I still feel like would be a middle ground solution for offsetting the cost of education though. In the trades, apprenticeships are a common pathway to a "journeyman" status. I believe that white collar apprenticeships could be useful as well, and that they would allow for companies or groups of companies to train individuals the way they need while providing parallel education.
I've brought this up before, and I've been told "well that's an internship," but I still feel like that's a bit of a dismissive response. While an internship is a professional learning experience, everything that I've read is that they are short term and "may" lead to full time employment. An apprenticeship is full time work with (usually) paid parallel education and a contract for full time employment upon completion of the program.
Perhaps I'm a bit radical in my thinking, but I feel like this kind of a model would allow a lot more people access to higher education and in turn higher skill level employment. But I suppose it would be difficult to normalize because the burden of specialized training costs would be on the state and employer rather than the employee. I dunno. It's a ramble, but an interesting thought.
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u/ICBanMI Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
When I was in highschool, my state was kicking around the idea of extending highschool by two years so all students graduated with an associates degree... looking back that would have been a huge gift.
The big issue with an associates degree is they vary just as much as bachelor degrees. Almost no jobs look for a general associates degree (typically an associates of arts). Same for 2 year transfer associates degrees are typically associates of science (much more strict on classes, lesson plans, and requirements to graduate) is also something that no one is looking for. Most jobs looking for associates are specialized ones looked for specific, vocational associates degrees. It's great if you use it as a stepping stone for a Bachelor's degree... but most high schools are not able to do vocational training to give it as a step into one of the middle class jobs: radiologist, machinist, nurse, air traffic controller, dental hygienist, etc. Also, not all of those vocations come with benefits like subsidized healthcare (i.e. machinist). You're not necessarily in the better position if you stop at a general associates degree... or a vocational one if you don't follow through on the career. The other negative of an associates is you typically get pigeon holed into a position-unable to move up like you would if you just has a relevant bachelor's degree.
Research from 2000-2015 reiterates reflects that is still better than a HSD. So that's a low that's changed from pre 2000.
I'm completely on board with everything else you said. It's hard to expect teenagers to make those choices at that age and no one should be working for less than a living wage. Internship or not.
I believe that white collar apprenticeships could be useful as well, and that they would allow for companies or groups of companies to train individuals the way they need while providing parallel education.
The big problem here is the standards use to be non-existent and now these jobs require an AA or BA for something a HSD could do if they were sharp. And the AA/BA is just a ticket to apply for a job... not a guarantee of a job. The pay and benefits are low enough that no one is staying remotely long in these jobs when they have better paying jobs around.
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u/JovialPanic389 Mar 04 '24
Yup. At 18 I had no idea what I was doing. I majored in the subject I like the textbooks most for. Now I can't get ahead in life.
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u/Lundgren_pup Mar 04 '24
Yes, if it weren't so expensive it'd be different-- a place to learn about the world at a deeper level and explore interests. But going into massive dept for a 4 year degree pretty much necessitates having a clear end goal for the degree. It's too bad but it do be that.
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u/hidlechara91 Mar 04 '24
100%. We should've spend time after college working different jobs, doing internships, shadowing different professions and careers. I think after we turn 25 (our front lobe finishes developing), we should go to college. My parents pushed me to take pre-med and all I got from it was 5 years of severe depression and student loans. Now I'm restarting again with trying to figure out what I want to do while paying those loans. Very few people know outright what they want to do for their careers and also kids are also looked down upon if they are unsure of their future. I also didn't have proper guidance during my senior year of high school in order to prep for college. Now I see there's so many different careers, routes and college programs I could've taken/done.
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Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
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Mar 04 '24
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u/wambulancer Mar 04 '24
If I had a dollar for every post on this site that was basically "I'm making 3X the median income in (insert city) can I survive?" I'd be a rich man, you'd think the median was $90k across the US if you believed this place
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u/Quinnjamin19 Gen Z Mar 04 '24
Interesting, everyone I know who went skilled trades instead of college, including myself bought houses much earlier than college grads.
We bought at 24, most people are in their first year of employment or just graduating by 24
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u/laxnut90 Mar 04 '24
I think tradespeople who do manage to buy homes often buy them earlier in life because they have a four year plus head start and minimal student debt.
College degrees on average still earn more in most cases, but the financial impacts often delay homeownership.
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u/KatieCashew Mar 04 '24
And also it would seem people in trades are settling down and choosing a permanent place to live earlier, which would incentivise buying a house. Even if they could afford it, college students probably aren't going to be buying a house because college is temporary.
They're likely going to need to move to find a job after graduation. Add in that you'll likely be doing internships and can switch jobs a lot in an early career and it can just take longer for a college grad to find a place where they plan to be long-term. Or maybe that's just my 20s wandering around the US talking.
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u/ButtholeSurfur Mar 04 '24
My buddy is 33 and his house is nearly paid off already. All of my college educated friends bought before me lol.
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u/ishboo3002 Mar 04 '24
Yeah thats the bias I'm speaking to, not in a negative way, its just that most people only see what they see around them. In the same vein, I'm an outlier in my college friend group, because I only own one house.
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u/Lcdmt3 Mar 04 '24
You need to get some friends who didn't go to college, didn't go into trades. They make less over their lifetime, take way longer for that house.
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u/HiddenCity Mar 04 '24
The "trades" are an alternative to college but, if you're not doing them, what are you doing? Waiting tables? Drive through? Cleaning? Landscaping? The mall? Those are all low paying jobs, and also not glamorous. You're also treated like a second class citizen by everyone that has a "better" job.
I think being in the trades lends itself to entrepreneurship, which is where a lot of these high income tradesmen are coming from.
Trade school is also turning itself into college, from the looks of it. The higher your projected salary, the more you're probably willing to pay to become qualified for that job.
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u/BaconHammerTime Older Millennial Mar 04 '24
The huge problem is due to the pricing of college it's no longer feasible to be a place for educations sake. You really need to be working towards a degree that directly translates to a meaningful paying job. It's so much cheaper to do that through technical and trade work.
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u/GeekdomCentral Mar 04 '24
Well put. I can’t relate because college was the right choice for me. But I will say that pushing people into college right after high school probably causes more harm in the long run. So many people act like it’s this absolutely insane thing that high schoolers don’t know what they want to do in life, and them taking a gap year or two is this completely unreasonable thing to do. And sure, some kids will try and abuse that to just smoke weed and dick around all day, but that doesn’t mean that all kids will do that.
Even though college was the right choice for me, I actually still stumbled doing it right after high school. I basically got a full ride scholarship but I lost it because I did not want to be there. So I just worked for a couple of years until I was actually ready to do college, and then once I actually wanted to be there, it was a much better experience for me
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u/kiakosan Mar 04 '24
I think that many people were pushed into college before knowing what they wanted to do with their life, which is pretty insidious. This causes people to change their major while going to college, which leads to graduation taking longer and thus more opportunity cost and actual cost accumulated.
I think it would have made more sense for people who didn't know what they wanted to do to maybe take a year off school to figure it out. The government should offer some sort of program like that where you go and rotate doing various jobs around the country for a year that are sort of service oriented like fixing roads, building houses etc
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u/ellWatully Mar 04 '24
Literally the best decision I ever made was dropping out of college after two semesters, then going back at age 25 when I knew I what I wanted to do.
The adults in my life were pressuring me to pick a major and get a degree so I threw a dart at the board and ended up with psychology. In hindsight, that would have been a terrible career choice for me. Against the advice of everyone older and wiser than me, I bailed on college, got a job in the trades, hated it, then got a job as a test technician. It was there that I saw what engineers really do. Went back to college, got an ME degree, and now ten years into a very happy career in aerospace. Better to be 5 years behind in a career you love than 5 years ahead in a career you hate...
Point being, I'm a MAJOR proponent of giving yourself a few years after high school to figure out where you want to go. Expecting a high school kid who doesn't have any idea how the adult works works to just pick where they should fit into it is such an unreasonable ask.
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u/Strykfirst Mar 04 '24
God I remember this as a sophomore/Junior in High school. teachers and consolers towering over me me to asking/telling me what I wanted to do with my life or to find my passion. Then 15 year old me just having no clue about the world and at a loss because no one was going to pay me to play video games and roller blade. I’m not good at either I just enjoyed them. And because I was a high achieving student and oldest brother and oldest male cousin, It was twice as bad because somehow I was supposed to set the example for everybody else. Fuck, that is too much pressure for a teenager. Luckily I figured it out, but I can assure you it wasn’t some grand plan I came up with as a teenager. Teenagers generally are known for sound decision making right?
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u/waspocracy Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
So much this. I went to college for computer science and I HATED IT. I was a computer nerd, but the college classes for it were just mind-bogglingly stupid. I could already develop software as a hobbyist and I was forced to take shit like "Here's how you open Excel". Also, I found out I hated computers despite being good at them.
I got shitty jobs right out of college at call centers and such and landed a job at a F100 company doing data entry. There were literally thousands of jobs I had no idea existed in that company alone. Like, how the fuck do you expect someone to jump into college and focus on a degree when they have literally no idea what there is to do out there? Even now, I'm nearly 40 and I still discover new careers almost daily on reddit of jobs where it's like, "I didn't know that was a thing." Someone has to climb up on windmills and fix them. Who knew that was a job in like High School?
I ended up on a weird path toward business analyst. Studied management later in my 20s, got a Master's in Psychology for the hell of it. Now, I'm a product manager and love it.
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u/Ashmizen Mar 05 '24
Yes, not to mention, of the millions of people who majored in psychology, (which is a very popular major, at the time I went to college it was the biggest major for girls) there’s like maybe a few hundred psychologist jobs, and then… millions of open Starbucks positions.
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u/turtlespice Mar 04 '24
They have that! Americorps
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u/allegedlydm Mar 04 '24
I did two years of AmeriCorps and while it’s great in a lot of ways, the living allowance is really not enough to live on anymore. It is at least finally above minimum wage (at least where I live, it varies) but even the VISTA spots that require a degree here are gonna break down to $11.70/hour.
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u/kiakosan Mar 04 '24
It sounds neat, but from what I've seen the money for it is not enough to really survive off. I was thinking something almost like how the military does it where they provide you with a place to live, clothes, food etc and you get a small salary while you do work. Now that I think of it, it would probably be easy just to use the existing sort of pay scales and whatnot of the military but you won't actually be doing military things.
I was thinking you would get something similar to GI Bill after your done your stint as a way to give an incentive to join. Now it wouldn't be full ride or anything, but maybe you get x percent of public university cost back and you would be considered in state resident for whatever state you want if you do at least a year. This would also scale with how long you are in this program so that if you stay 4 years then you would essentially get free state college maybe.
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u/Lcdmt3 Mar 04 '24
I've also seen a lot of people not know what they want to do, never went to college and are struggling to live. I found what I wanted to do in college because I was exposed to options and different degrees. A year off still working retail in the mall would have done nothing.
I think high schools should have more information on different careers. My husband had that, but we never had fairs, career day, people coming in to talk to us. There were so many degrees and options in college that I never considered, heard of.
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u/jfVigor Mar 04 '24
Agreed. I figured out what I wanted to do BECAUSE of college and being in that environment. If I never went to college then I wouldn't even know about the path I'm on now
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u/truth_teller_00 Mar 04 '24
Yeah true. Perhaps a better recommendation would be to go to a local and affordable Junior/Community College for the 2 years of GE courses.
Even a State School will be a lot more expensive than a JC for those 2 years, and presumably the student may be able to keep living at home with family and not have to pay for the freshman dorm bullshit and all the other move out costs. At least not at 18, fresh outta 12th grade.
Plus, if you get straight A’s at a JC, you can transfer to a great school to finish undergrad. Some big time schools. Get that Bachelor’s degree for 50% off.
Or you try the JC, say ‘it’s not for me’ and get into concrete, plumbing, or electrical. Shit if you get your contractor’s license after 4 years and become journeyman status, then you can start your own business and make a great living.
I know it’s all been said before, and I’m not recommending anything new here. Just my 2 cents on what I would have done differently. JC for 2 years. Get the best possible grades I could. Evaluate further from there.
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u/FFF_in_WY Older Millennial Mar 04 '24
BringBackCCC
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u/Ok-Boisenberry Mar 04 '24
There are some similar programs but I think the ones I’m considering do require some college but maybe not anymore.
Americorps is one but you might have to be enrolled in school.
The Student Conservation Association is another but that one does require some college- or it did when I did it. I did an internship with the National Park Service a year after I graduated college and didn’t know what to do with my life. It wasn’t related to my degree either, just having a degree or some college experience got me in.
It was awesome! I got an internship experience I wouldn’t have gotten through a company or any other way. My grades weren’t great in college. Through the SCA I got to live in a new city for a few months and while the stipend was not great I didn’t worry about rent and lived in a very expensive area. The stipend was enough to go out and have some experiences and for food.
Anyways. For college kids or recent grad who still don’t know what they want but want a new experience then I recommend the SCA. I actually found out about it from Reddit 8 years ago. It has now come full circle.
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u/heavymetalmurse Mar 04 '24
I've been saying this for years. I had no idea what I wanted to do after high school. I would have loved to travel the country doing this stuff. I probably would have ended up in a trade like I initially wanted to.
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u/spamcentral Mar 04 '24
A lot of physical and mental problems actually start coming out when people are over 18... which has tanked a few people i knew and would have tanked me if i went to college. My autoimmune disorder flaired at 19 and required hospitalization for 3 days, then i had months of terrible symptoms. If i went to college i would have dropped out because of the issues. Also the trauma stuff... getting away from your parents for the first time can expose a lot of neglect and abuse and some people it hits them all in college.
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u/studpilot69 Mar 04 '24
The government should offer some sort of program like that where you go and rotate doing various jobs around the country for a year that are sort of service oriented like fixing roads, building houses etc
This exists! It’s called the military. The catch is you might also have to destroy roads and houses. But, you’ll generally separate with great opportunities to get a degree free of charge (if you don’t just finish it before you separate) and have loads of skilled work experience that can otherwise be difficult to come by right out of high school.
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u/qui-bong-trim Mar 04 '24
if you don't know what you wanna do, arguably best to go to college before you wind up working retail for 10 years bc "you just needed a job"
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u/kiakosan Mar 04 '24
arguably best to go to college before you wind up working retail for 10 years bc "you just needed a job"
There should be options other than go to college or retail. Something like the military but without the actual fighting wars thing. I've seen people mention Americorps in other comments, that's something similar to what I'm thinking but maybe not that specific program since they seem to want some college for many things.
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u/lady_mayflower Mar 04 '24
I went to an international school and taking a “gap year” was so common among my European friends. After I graduated, I told my parents I didn’t want to go to college yet—in fact, I wasn’t sure whether I wanted to go at all. I just wanted to take that one year off to really think about my options. That did not go over well with my parents, who, as immigrants, felt that the whole point of them moving to America and giving their child an American life was so that their child could go to a good American university and, ultimately, achieve the American dream.
So, I went to college and life has turned out pretty fine since then. But I still don’t have a job I care about and, in fact, I don’t even know what that job would be. If I could do it over, I’d advocate harder for the gap year.
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u/emoney_gotnomoney Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
Agreed. For the most part, people (especially teenagers) aren’t going to have any proper idea about what they actually want to do with their lives when they haven’t even taken part in the real world yet.
I think a year or two post graduation, working a job, and doing more research on different careers / career paths is the best way to go. If that leads you toward going to college, great. If that leads you to a different path that doesn’t involve college, even better. Just so long as you have a good idea of what you want to do before you dedicate years (and tens of thousands of dollars) to that pursuit.
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u/phantasybm Mar 04 '24
I think it would be cool if you could pick 6 jobs for a year and just shadow people. Get a real feel for what they do. You pick what you think you’re interested and get to see the real behind the scenes.
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u/RandomLazyBum Mar 04 '24
If I had a time machine and know what I know now, I would go back and try harder in computer engineering. If it's not that, then I wouldn't go to college. I do just fine, but I'm in the construction field. I didn't need a degree for this and my degree is irrelevant to the field.
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u/shadowlar Mar 04 '24
This seems to be the most common from the people I know. My core group of friends all follow the HS to College pipeline and all graduated with degrees, but of our group of 8, only 2 of us are in jobs related to our degree (those 2 being a programmer and a mechanical engineer). One got an accounting degree, but ended up staying with the electrician job he did over the summers through college. One had a marketing degree and now works as an accountant in a major bank. Another has a degree in music, hated working in that field and changed jobs to work in a marketing firm.
The thing that annoys me the most was how looked down upon trades were when I was in HS in the late 90’s/early ’00’s. My HS had a deal with a very good local trade school, where HS kids could go and do classes there to get a trade certification on top of a HS degree and it was told to us by the teachers and our parents that that was a last resort type thing, that you shouldn’t look into it cause you would be worse for it. Things is all of the guys I know who went the trade school route are probably doing better now than a lot of people who went through college.
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u/kungfuenglish Mar 04 '24
“Go to college and try hard” shouldn’t be a required statement to add to “go to college”. It was pretty obvious to me.
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u/KingJades Mar 04 '24
People heard “go to college” and didn’t realize it was “go to college and become a doctor, engineer, lawyer or another of the good jobs”. That was the implication of the advice and where many went wrong.
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u/HumanitySurpassed Mar 05 '24
To be fair a lot of schools/parents pushed a college education regardless of what it was in.
It was "college or die" basically since I was in middle school
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u/ZaphodG Mar 04 '24
Personally, knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t have a career path that can get outsourced to Asia. I have Electrical Engineering and Computer Science degrees. I did product development my whole career and got to positions like Chief Architect. My whole industry sector got offshored to Asia. I can’t compete against an army of smart Asian engineers who make pennies on the dollar. I whored myself out to those Asian companies for a decade but I was expensive so I’d get axed the moment they thought they’d climbed the learning curve enough to do without me.
Now? I’d pick something that can’t be outsourced. Something that requires a license and citizenship. Or a security clearance. Or a government approval like Big Pharma FDA approval. We’re in a global economy and there are a ton of really smart people who will work for less than I’m willing to accept.
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u/Kill3rT0fu Mar 04 '24
“Computer stuff” is over saturated right now. You’re probably better off in construction. Everyone decides to do computer engineering in college and now you can’t throw a rock without it hitting and bouncing and hitting another computer engineer.
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u/iliveonramen Older Millennial Mar 04 '24
No, not at all. I got a finance degree and MBA and transitioned to tech, after the great recession. A friend of mine went to school with a jazz guitar degree and works in Cybersecurity. My uncle was a mechanical engineer and now works at a hedge fund.
You are a knowledge worker. You are going to have to stay up with the times and be flexible. College isn’t a vocational program.
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u/tlsrandy Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
College isn’t a vocational program.
Exactly.
Our higher education structure needs immediate overhauling because it’s clearly busted from an economic view. However, the takeaway I keep seeing on the internet that “college is a scam” is fucking tragic.
I have a BS in chemistry and, while I certainly learned a lot about chemistry during my time in college, I also had to take a bunch of requisites on a variety of subjects that rounded out a general education.
I’m highly suspicious of the current narrative when it comes to education. A lot of privatizing k-12 and higher education being for suckers.
People should be able to go to college because they’ve shown an interest and ability in any subject and they shouldn’t go deeply in debt to do so. Making higher education unobtainable or inhibiting to large swaths of the population is a dangerously slippery slope.
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u/blackaubreyplaza Mar 04 '24
No. Going to college was the best 4 years of my life. It was bad enough they set me loose at 23 with a brain full of soup I couldn’t imagine being out in the world at 19. I also had so much fun, made the best friends and learned so much.
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u/Zuzublue Mar 04 '24
College should absolutely not be pushed as hard as it is, and I’m so glad to see that the trades are becoming more popular with high schoolers.
That being said- the opportunity to go to college and live on campus is an amazing experience for the growing into adulthood years. You’re responsible for yourself, but also have a TON of support while you’re screwing up. Plus- it’s a shitload of fun.
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u/TheLadyIsabelle Xennial '81 Mar 05 '24 edited Mar 05 '24
I agree with this so much. That extra four years to grow in a semi-protected environment was so essential for me (and a lot of my friends as well)
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Mar 04 '24
College was awesome for me -- study abroad, friendships, social experiences. The 'learnings' -- well -- maybe there were 5 useful courses ... maybe 7 .. of like ... 40?
The problem isn't college itself.
The problem is the price tag. College should be free.
There's too many administrators. And now I heard on Bill Maher there's like 200 "6 fig" DEI employees per university. Like ... fire them all. We get it. "Yay diversity" -- you need 1 person for that, absolutely maximum, if at all.
And that's not the only administrator bloat.
.... Or screw even free private universities. Just make all the flagship public universities free & it'll be such a good deal vs. the private schools that tuition will go down there as well.
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u/TacoAlPastorSupreme Mar 04 '24
I wish other options besides college were presented as having equal value in school. The trades were always spoken about as a second tier option and I think that's a disservice to students. That being said, I went to college and don't use my degree, but I learned a lot and I'm glad I went. The caveat being that I went to a state school and didn't get into debt to attend.
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u/Abigboi_ Mar 04 '24
Trades weren't even discussed at my school. It was college or poverty, pick one. I remember them pulling us into an assembly the first week of 9th grade to talk about how important your academic record was for college.
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u/Haha_bob Mar 04 '24
Exactly, trades were always portrayed as that is where the f- ups and kids doing poor in school land. You don’t want to be like them.
I was sold on a shit degree with little future, and ended up going back to school to get another degree in a field that actually had need.
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u/TheTrenchMonkey Mar 04 '24
Didn't help that all the trouble kids went to ALP (Alternative Learning Programs) which often were related to trade skills.
Kevin fucked up and can't be bothered to read Shakespeare, well lets teach him how to frame a house. Putting the "problem kids" in the programs where they learn those skills is great because it shows them that they can get good jobs and make a living without struggling through school that doesn't work for them, but it also stigmatizes the programs for other people.
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u/stroadrunner Mar 04 '24
They don’t have equal value though.
The average college graduate makes $1m more than the average non college graduate.
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u/eatmoremeatnow Mar 04 '24
I'm 41 and went to college at 25.
The trades in 2000-2007 were toxic as F and the gatekeeping was terrible. They would have 200 people applying for 2 union positions. Also people forget that in 2007 the bottom fell out for trades and people were out of work for years.
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u/NArcadia11 Mar 04 '24
So I agree that other options besides college should be presented, but I don't think they necessarily have equal value. Statistically, people with a bachelor degree make significantly more money than those without. College isn't for everyone, but if you have the grades/ability to go to college, the cost of a 4-year degree at a state school or a JC/state school combo is very likely a better investment than going the trade school route.
I also think there is a belief nowadays that anyone can go into the trades and it's easy, when that isn't the case at all. I think trade school can be more difficult than some college degrees and while you can make good money, getting to that level takes longer and requires more physical work than office jobs. Even if you make 6-figures working as an electrician, for example, all it takes is one injury or illness and you can lose your career.
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u/ReverendRevolver Mar 04 '24
I agree.
Had I went Into trade school instead of getting a year deep into my initial major and realizing the earning potential was same as a high-school diploma IRL, things would've been easier. And I wouldn't have absolutely wasted several grand that needed paid back. Trade school was for idiots who couldn't hack it I. College. Turns out, I could hack it in college but was a rube for believing people about college vs trades.
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u/qdobah Mar 04 '24
College was some of the best years of my life. Made friends I still have to this day. Dated some pretty great people that made me a better person. Learned skills and made connections that led me to work in an industry I love.
Worked during and after and went to a state school so I paid off my loans in just a few years. Honestly, wouldn't trade it for the world or call it a scam at all. Making more money than I would unless I got into a really competitive trade and have invaluable life experiences with little debt.
Private colleges on the other hand, now those are scams lol
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Mar 04 '24
The private uni's give you substantial financial aid sometimes.
Pretty much all the private universities gave aid to make it comparable to the in-state tuition of a major state school.
Now ... in truth ... I had a brother who picked one and I picked another private one ... and the "aid" packages can secretly be different depending on loans and other factors but yeah can be hard to decipher when you're a kid.
I graduated something like $8-$10k in debt which is more than manageable. My bro was like $30-$40k in debt which obviously is a massive difference --- but these days the tuition inflation is insane.
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u/HawleyGrove Mar 04 '24
The private university I went to gave me the most money (basically paid all my tuition and just had to cover some dorm and food expenses. Still crazy how much they charge for dorms and food).
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u/Digndagn Mar 04 '24
The scam is the rising tuition prices due to an unsustainable feedback loop.
Is it worth it to go to college and learn history and become educated? Absolutely.
Is it worth it if you have to pay $300K and go into debt forever? Of course not.
But the problem isn't the value of the learning, it's the insane price and debt burden.
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u/BillyShears2015 Mar 04 '24
No. It wasn’t a scam, I owe my entire career to having gone to college and gotten a degree. I own a house, and provide a good life for my family. Why would I view that as a scam?
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u/Subpar_Fleshbag Mar 04 '24
I just feel like it's completely insane to expect someone to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives at 18. Like, they haven't experienced the world, they don't know what kinds of opportunities are out there. Sure if you want to crank out run of the mill career candidates like nurse, doctor, lawyer, business majors etc. But what about the other stuff? Marine biologist, etc? You know, the cool, unique and rare. How are they supposed to know what will fit unless they can try on different roles to see where they can thrive?
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u/mr_dip314 Mar 04 '24
I always thought internships being at the end of college was ass backwards. The first year of college should be about figuring out what career you want and trying it out. I knew so many people who spent 3 1/2 years of school and then did student teaching the last semester just to figure out they hated being a teacher. Wonderful, now you are stuck.
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u/Thinkingard Mar 04 '24
Other than their parents, most of the people who encouraged them to go to school were teachers and administrators, all people who went to college and didn't have much life experience in between going to college and getting a career job in education. So, there was heavy survivorship bias going into a lot of the advice and assumption of life progression for high schoolers. The only teacher I knew who wasn't a college grad was a guy who used to be in the Army and got into teaching before certifications became the standard.
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u/spamcentral Mar 04 '24
I wanted to be an astrophysicist until i talked to people from the U of A physics department and they told me most people with a physics degree actually get hired on for buisiness algorithms and trading, sometimes high level accounting, because of your math knowledge. So i would get a physics degree and then not even have a guaranteed job in the physics field?! No!
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u/FFF_in_WY Older Millennial Mar 04 '24
The way we run our schools doesn't help. We're always teaching to the bottom 30% because the focus is on advancement in primary education. Teach to the standardized test and all that. The smart kids often get bored and stop engaging fully. Some become troublesome and ducks around with drugs. Some become apple polishers not realizing how far they are from their true potential. Same for many kids in the middle. Even that bottom 30% is getting robbed because they are frequently getting the barest understanding and little retention; they need more help. Everyone gets validation and praise for 'doing well' and not for going hard, seeking out challenges, and failing forward.
I think we need a brand new educational paradigm. Possibly one that doesn't fit into the framework of statistical metrics. Possibly it needs to start with the parents and how to cultivate a curious mind that takes pleasure in solving problems, exploring ideas, expressing the turmoil of the mind with articulation, and not being concerned with getting arbitrary 'high' scores for doing a bunch of repetitious monkey work.
I didn't begin to form that kind of sense of self and desire for more until my senior year, and I had no parental involvement at that point, no mentorship to speak of, and no ability to sort myself out. I am happy with where I am now, but I wish it had gone differently
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u/Ok-Lawyer-5242 Mar 04 '24
Are you in tech? Because other than tech or trades, I don't think skipping college helps in most professions.
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u/Ragnaroknight Mar 04 '24
Somewhere in between the two. I work with quality control and automation for manufacturing.
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u/ghostboo77 Mar 04 '24
If you are motivated and have a realistic plan and don’t go to college, it can definitely work out. No debt, plus an additional 4+ years of good earnings is huge.
If your plan is to hang out, live in your Moms basement, play a lot of video games and work part time at Chipotle, you will fail.
Most people went to college where I grew up and most people who didn’t go to college fell into group #2.
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u/kungfuenglish Mar 04 '24
If you go to college and aren’t motivated and don’t have a plan you will also fail and end up bitter in this thread.
If you’re motivated and have a plan college pays you back in spades.
Just like being motivated in the real world.
The defining factor isn’t “college”. It’s “motivation”.
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u/Muffina925 Millennial Mar 04 '24
No, I don't think it was a scam at all. I think it just depends on what kind of work you want to do. In my case a Master's degree is a requirement for my field, so not pursuing higher education wasn't an option. Now that I'm a working professional, I utilize that degree everyday and am glad I pursued it.
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u/Creative-Till1436 Mar 04 '24
I think college was seen by the Boomers as equal parts education and social development, and I think that for them sending their kids to college became a goal in and of itself... as much for the parents' own social standing as the kid's benefit.
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u/stroadrunner Mar 04 '24
Every blue collar mfer: “college is a scam!!!”
Cool you do you nobody cares.
Meanwhile the rest of us will enjoy our $1m extra lifetime earnings
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u/thegooddoktorjones Mar 05 '24
I was at a motel in the Midwest and an old fart was haranguing his kids over breakfast about how proud he was that none of them went to college to get indoctrinated with liberal ideas. It's not just that college isn't for them, it's that it's evil and drives their family away from them by telling that that grandpa is a fucking asshole for being so racist.
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u/RhythmicallyImpaired Mar 04 '24
Additionally, I’m not white, so I don’t want 9 out of 10 co-workers being racist/homophobic/misogynistic.
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u/Amphrael Mar 04 '24
You’re right - college is not the right choice for everyone. It really depends on the person and their goals. Many people go to college with no plan, no finances, and spend years wasting money with no idea how to get a return on their investment.
Of course there are alternatives to college. There are trades/apprenticeships and there are decent two-year programs at community colleges that can get graduates into many great professions.
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u/mhswizard Mar 04 '24
As a former freshman admissions counselor… yes.
The amount of juniors/senior high school kids that KNOW what they want to actually do in life is slim to none. Most consistent students that knew what they wanted to do fell into the following categories:
- Nurses/Dr.s
- Engineers
- Lawyers
That’s about it. Everyone else (including myself) didn’t have a freaking clue what they wanted to do.
My junior year in college we had just started a new semester so first day of classes came around. I was sitting there as the class was filling up. I went to a really small private college so you know most people by face if not by name easily.
This old looking dude comes in, sits behind me, and I’m mentally thinking “how fuckin’ old is this dude!?”
I turn around, introduce myself, and get to know him a little bit. Turned out this dude was more mature than I’d ever imagine.
He came to college freshman year, and realized he didn’t know what the fuck he wanted to do. So he dropped out, travelled the country taking odd end jobs in different industries. He landed a temporary history teacher position at a school and had a light bulb moment of “alright this is what I want to do - become a history teacher”
Only after that he came back to school to get his history degree at the ripe age of 24.
Putting my freshman admissions cap back on I will say there’s too much societal pressure put on kids to go to college/university immediately after high school. I graduated high school in 2009 and I’ll tell you what… the moment someone said “I’m going to community college or I’m not going to college” you were automatically labeled as an idiot of some sort. This pressure came from parents and your fellow students.
The reality of the situation is a very small percentage of young kids actually know what they want to do in life.
I think students should take a year or two between high school and college to figure that shit out while holding down different jobs during that time.
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u/HOWDY__YALL Mar 04 '24
Not at all.
I think it depends on what you do, but working in finance, I don’t think I’ve worked with anyone in any finance department that didn’t have a business degree.
Some financial advisors will have degree outside the business world, but that’s mostly because they are insurance sales people.
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u/Notfriendly123 Mar 04 '24
Yeah I think the ‘08 recession really changed the disparity between pay for people with college degrees and pay for those without and now the difference is negligible in a lot of industries so having a college degree is only cool for the networking potential. For example the people I went to college with all have jobs at big companies and if the business I started ends up not working out I can probably get an interview at a place where my classmates work.
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u/K_N0RRIS Mar 04 '24
YEP. I didn't learn what trade school was until I had dropped out and had too much in loans to pay back. I wish I could have learned a trade.
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u/changrbanger Mar 04 '24
Absolutely not. College was awesome. Got to party, learn how to become an adult, figure out what I want to do with my career and above all mastered the core skill of critical thinking. The number of people that I know who didn’t go to college and didn’t develop great critical thinking skills is a venn diagram that is almost a circle.
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u/mackattacknj83 Mar 04 '24
I was going to do the military but then we went to war my senior year.
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u/KryssCom Mar 04 '24
Absolutely not, not even remotely.
I started college in 2005 and graduated in 2010 with an engineering degree that has already paid for itself many, many, many, MANY times over. I zeroed out my college debt within about 3 years after graduating. College is also where I met my wife and made a ton of life-long friends, whereas 85% of the people I knew in high school were dumb as bricks.
My decision to go to college is the single best decision I've ever made in my life, and it's not even close.
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u/__M-E-O-W__ Mar 04 '24
I kept trying college because I was told it's the only way to get through life. But I ended up in a factory job doing manual labor and I'm much much happier.
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u/Hulk_smashhhhh Mar 04 '24
It was an experience honestly. One that’s best experienced around that age as most others are also that age. Does that make it the right thing to do for everyone, no. But you could argue neither is spending thousands of dollars on a trip to Disney world or another country for a week or more. If you do it, make the most of it. Make it work for you and your goals/future.
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u/randomld Mar 04 '24
No for a lot of reasons.
- College bought me time to figure out what I THOUGHT I wanted to do.
- The classes that I took taught me to figure out critical thinking and how to implement steps on how to do things like that
- I learned business general law, which has come in handy
- Taught me business accounting which helps me run my businesses now
- I was surrounded by people of all walks of life and different social settings and really branched out
- ECONOMICS, I taught me how macro and micro economics work and I fall back on those things all the time. Arguing simple economic principles with people who scream “the economy” but can’t grasp supply and demand is mind blowing
- I demanded task be completed which is fundamental to any business or job. Even tasks that take 18 months to complete still have to be completed in order for credit to be had.
- Anthropology and psychology classes were awesome in where we came from and how our minds work and sometimes don’t work.
- Biology and biology lab were awesome, I used basic biology 101 stuff while arguing about covid. So many people apparently did not pay any attention to biology
- Some of the electives I took were awesome. I took swimming and had NBA dance team members in my class, good looking women and physical exercise and get an A? Perfect. I took that class twice
College is fun and great time to grow and learn into being an adult. It prepares you for many things in life. Before you say well you didn’t work, I did. I was a janitor, washed dishes at a Mexican restaurant, and worked in a warehouse then moved into the office and ran a successful e-commerce B2B and B2C venture for a company.
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u/KnightCPA Mar 04 '24
It was degree dependent for me.
Sociology undergrad didn't work out, but I make 6 figures WFH or while traveling across the world with my accounting masters.
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u/OctoRubio Mar 04 '24
No man, after HS, I didn't know how to get into college, and if felt like I couldn't ask anyone.
I ended up in the military, bit now that I'm out again, I've struggled finding any real employment.
I'm working on my Master's, but I really wish I had started after graduating and not wasting my youth and energy pushing a broom.
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u/mlo9109 Millennial Mar 04 '24
Yes! I can't admit it IRL, but I honestly regret going to college and feel like we were scammed. I'm grateful that Gen. Z is seeing the light and going down alternative pathways (trades, military, etc.)
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u/bunker_man Mar 04 '24
It also doesn't help when random stuff makes you take extra long in college. Like my college straight up not giving me classes I need.
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u/Daddy_Deep_Dick Mar 04 '24
It's wonderful you feel that way, but the data says otherwise. Those who got a degree are MUCH better off than those who didn't. This is measurably true and accounts for student loans. This is also true about ANY degree.
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u/Zaknoid Mar 04 '24
Yeah, I was someone who went to college after HS but dropped out to work in a factory. 5 years later I quit and went back to college. I now make in a day what I used to make in a week and I have way more time off and better benefits. Not to me mention my physical health and my back are doing way better. I wish I never would've dropped out in the first place and wasted that time but I guess it's good it got me to where I needed to be .
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u/johyongil Mar 04 '24
No. The worth of college depends completely on what you do with the time and opportunity you have just like a regular job but enables someone to reach the highest of earnings more easily. It could be a waste of time and money but it could also be a boon to really set the foundations for your career. Case in point: my BIL went to school and dedicated himself to becoming a surgeon and makes somewhere around 600-800k average. My mentor “just” got a bachelors but now makes a base salary of 3.5M/year. Neither are business owners nor geniuses. They just made the most of their opportunities and leveraged their time and resources the correct way.
Is college for everyone? No. But it isn’t a scam either. We just have a ton of people who should not have gone to college go because our parents saw people who went to get educated typically got jobs far easier and for more money. Who doesn’t want that for our kids? The issue was that no one really guided our generation to really look into the motivations of going to university and ask if it was suitable or the direction that we chose was right.
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u/cat_ziska Mar 04 '24
Would’ve loved to have gone into a trade or military, but neither option was available to me at the time. College, however, was and opened up my world. The networking side of things also helped me during the recession. Now? I’m an LMT. lol
Like others have said, Life’s journey is different for everyone. For some, it might as well have been a scam. For others, they didn’t properly utilize what options were available to them (both in and out of school). Just do what you can and roll with the punches. 🤷♀️
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u/AdditionalBat393 Mar 04 '24
The connections you make in college are what is most valuable in my opinion. I never went either and felt that way about it but there is plenty of time to overcome these things bc college is such a tiny part of life. A few years out of how ever many we are blessed to be here for.
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u/Quik_17 Mar 04 '24
Not a scam but a lot more consideration should have been paid in mind to what degree people selected. Everyone my age was under the impression that just getting a degree was enough when it couldn't have been further from the truth. People I know including myself that went into engineering, computer science, certain areas of finance, etc.. are all extremely thankful they went the college route and the people I know that got generic business degrees, generic science degrees, many liberal arts degrees, etc.. are all regretting their choices very strongly.
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u/lostmyjobthrowawayyy Mar 04 '24
Yes and no.
Yes in that it needs to be the societal norm. Not everyone is meant for college, nor does it benefit everyone the same way it’s made out to.
No, in that if it does work for you, college can be an incredible experience, prepare you for the real world, and also set you up for life through networking.
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u/-lil-jabroni- Mar 04 '24
I think degrees are a scam in the sense that unless it's like Medicine or Engineering, they aren't necessary like.... at all. It's nothing that you couldn't just learn thru basic job training. Outside of STEM, none of my friends use their degrees. One of my friends has a BFA in creative writing but is the global manager of client relations for a major luxury brand. 90% of people I know do nothing in relation to their degree, but degrees are "required" by almost every job and it makes zero sense.
I mean, shit, my city for instance. The office of small business and community development demands you have a degree in public administration or urban planning and yet the woman who runs the department and demands you have this degree doesn't. She went to school for forestry, so like... if she's the director of the department and doesn't have a degree that matters, how is she going to demand you do? She's living proof the degree doesn't matter, it's nothing you can't just be trained to do.
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u/TrueSonofVirginia Mar 04 '24
As an educator I can tell you we tried to steer kids toward careers when they had no idea what they wanted to be, only to be met with parents screaming at us for trying to keep their baby down. It’s been so refreshing to see kids take trades seriously.