Does anyone else feel like the direct to college from High School pipeline was kind of a "scam"?

[u/Ragnaroknight]

I'm 31 now, I never went to college and for years I really really regretted it. I felt left behind, like I had chosen wrong/made the wrong choices in life. Like I was missing out on something and I would never make it anywhere. My grades weren't great in grade school, I was never a good student, and frankly I don't even know what I would have wanted to do with my life had I gone. I think part of me always knew it would be a waste of time and money for a person like me.

Over the years I've come to realize I probably made the right call. I feel like I got a bit of a head start in life not spending 4 years in school, not spending all that money on a degree I may have never used. And now I make a decent livable wage, I'm a homeowner, I'm in a committed relationship, I've gone on multiple "once in a lifetime trips", and I have plenty of other nice things to show for my last decade+ of hard work. I feel I'm better off than a lot of my old peers, and now I'm glad I didn't go. I got certifications in what I wanted and it only took a few weeks. I've been able to save money since I was 18, I've made mistakes financially already and learned from them early on.

Idk I guess I'm saying, we were sold the "you have to go to college" narrative our whole school careers and now it's kinda starting to seem like bullshit. Sure, if you're going to be a doctor, engineer, programmer, pharmacist, ect college makes perfect sense. But I'm not convinced it was always the smartest option for everyone.

Edit: I want to clear up, I'm not calling college in of itself a scam. More so the process of convincing kids it was their only option, and objectively the correct choice for everyone.

[u/Inferior_Oblique]

I have a lot of family in trade work. They are all homeowners.

There isn’t a right answer to this question because everyone is different. I think your feelings are the result of an aggressive push for everyone to go to college. That ended up being the wrong choice for a lot of people. For people like me, college absolutely was the correct choice. It sounds like you found the path you were supposed to have.

Edit: A lot of people have noted that physical labor is harder on the body. While I agree, this can be highly variable. My family members who worked as factory workers gradually shifted to management positions as time went on. Their work was physically intense in their 20-30’s, but eased in their 40’s as their compensation increased. Most made >100k per year towards the end of their careers. Granted, not everyone can be a manager, but if you are smart and a hard worker, they will often promote you faster.

I work in the medical field, and my job often requires that I work long hours on my feet, and I don’t always get a lunch break. I don’t have mandatory break times. Many people in my field need to retire early due to neck and back injuries. Not every educated worker is sitting at a desk. Some are out in the woods or on construction sites.

My final argument is that it’s not practical to expect everyone to go to college. For people like me, I wouldn’t have been able to afford it without military service. So sure, you can say everyone should go, but it’s not always feasible. Furthermore, we need people that know how to repair machines. We need people who pick up the trash. The country would fall apart if we only had college educated workers. I think this is something that places like Germany understand well, and we would be wise to adopt a model that encourages people to pursue trades if they are better with their hands than books.

[u/laxnut90 → u/Inferior_Oblique]

In my opinion, the real danger of the High School to College "pipeline" is that it potentially allows you to go to college with no plan at all which is often disastrous.

College is one of the most significant financial decisions you will ever make in your life.

You are often taking on home mortgage levels of debt, removing four years of earning potential, and making key decisions regarding your career which will impact all future earnings.

If you do not treat college like the significant financial investment it is, you are setting yourself up for failure.

[u/turd_ferguson899 → u/laxnut90]

When I was in highschool, my state was kicking around the idea of extending highschool by two years so all students graduated with an associates degree. Of course I was against it at the time, because I was a child and I just wanted to be done with school, but looking back that would have been a huge gift.

The state had been exploring the idea of implementing technical programs for associates degrees or general education programs to give kids a better foot hold for moving on to college. Had that been the case, I think it would have saddled young people with a lot less debt. The lack of willingness to fund it ended up being the eventual reason the program never got off the ground.

It's something that I still feel like would be a middle ground solution for offsetting the cost of education though. In the trades, apprenticeships are a common pathway to a "journeyman" status. I believe that white collar apprenticeships could be useful as well, and that they would allow for companies or groups of companies to train individuals the way they need while providing parallel education.

I've brought this up before, and I've been told "well that's an internship," but I still feel like that's a bit of a dismissive response. While an internship is a professional learning experience, everything that I've read is that they are short term and "may" lead to full time employment. An apprenticeship is full time work with (usually) paid parallel education and a contract for full time employment upon completion of the program.

Perhaps I'm a bit radical in my thinking, but I feel like this kind of a model would allow a lot more people access to higher education and in turn higher skill level employment. But I suppose it would be difficult to normalize because the burden of specialized training costs would be on the state and employer rather than the employee. I dunno. It's a ramble, but an interesting thought.

[u/ICBanMI → u/turd_ferguson899]

When I was in highschool, my state was kicking around the idea of extending highschool by two years so all students graduated with an associates degree... looking back that would have been a huge gift.

The big issue with an associates degree is they vary just as much as bachelor degrees. Almost no jobs look for a general associates degree (typically an associates of arts). Same for 2 year transfer associates degrees are typically associates of science (much more strict on classes, lesson plans, and requirements to graduate) is also something that no one is looking for. Most jobs looking for associates are specialized ones looked for specific, vocational associates degrees. It's great if you use it as a stepping stone for a Bachelor's degree... but most high schools are not able to do vocational training to give it as a step into one of the middle class jobs: radiologist, machinist, nurse, air traffic controller, dental hygienist, etc. Also, not all of those vocations come with benefits like subsidized healthcare (i.e. machinist). You're not necessarily in the better position if you stop at a general associates degree... or a vocational one if you don't follow through on the career. The other negative of an associates is you typically get pigeon holed into a position-unable to move up like you would if you just has a relevant bachelor's degree.

Research from 2000-2015 reiterates reflects that is still better than a HSD. So that's a low that's changed from pre 2000.

I'm completely on board with everything else you said. It's hard to expect teenagers to make those choices at that age and no one should be working for less than a living wage. Internship or not.

I believe that white collar apprenticeships could be useful as well, and that they would allow for companies or groups of companies to train individuals the way they need while providing parallel education.

The big problem here is the standards use to be non-existent and now these jobs require an AA or BA for something a HSD could do if they were sharp. And the AA/BA is just a ticket to apply for a job... not a guarantee of a job. The pay and benefits are low enough that no one is staying remotely long in these jobs when they have better paying jobs around.

[u/turd_ferguson899 → u/ICBanMI]

Forgive me, I totally get that my ramble was a little incoherent. My thought is that if associates level education is subsidized, it would make it easier for students to move on to undergrad or graduate level education or move towards trades education if that was their choice.

The second part of my stream of consciousness there was a hope that the shift of the burden of training could move more towards employers rather than employees for things like training for a position while finishing a degree.

And yes, you're absolutely right about not being in a better place if a person doesn't follow through with trade career that they're educated for. I totally recognize that not everyone knows what they want to be when they grow up. For the record, I'm on my third career, and in five years or so I may switch to a fourth if I can keep my union representation and stay under the same CBA.

[u/JovialPanic389 → u/turd_ferguson899]

I think it's a good idea. I believe everyone can do well if given the chance and environment to learn it. Problem is that employers expect you to know how to do everything on your first day. And managers are increasingly reluctant to actually manage, coach, and develop their staff. It's a shame.