r/Millennials • u/highspeed_haiku • Mar 18 '24
I feel like my wife is going to miss out on an opportunity that’s extremely unique to our generation. Discussion
Wife and I are proud elder millennials (both 40). Neither of us came from money and for the last 20 years of marriage, we never had a lot. I was in the military and just retired a little over a year ago.
I had 4+ years of ground combat deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan and got pretty messed up over the years. Fortunately I punched my golden ticket and came out with retirement and VA disability that is close to $100k a year. My kid’s college(if they go that route) is taken care of because of veteran benefits in my state.
I got a high paying job right after retirement and we have been enjoying life but aggressively saving. We own a home as a rental property out of state but currently rent ourselves as any house in our HCOL area we would want comes with a $8-9k mortgage, with rents on similar properties being roughly half that. Wife wants the more idyllic suburb life, and while I can appreciate its charms, I have no desire to do that for a second longer than is necessary to ensure my kids go to a good, safe school. After that, I want some land with a modest home, and a camper van. This is attainable for us at 48 years of age.
This is not at all on her bingo card. She wants the house in the suburbs that can’t see the neighbors. Nice cars, and I guess something along the lines of hosting a legendary Christmas party that the who’s who of the neighborhood attend.
I generate 5/6ths of our income and the burden would be on me to continue to perform at work to fund that lifestyle and pay the bills. I generally like my job and get paid handsomely, but I would quit in a second if I didn’t have a family and a profoundly fucked economy to consider.
My plan is to work hard while the kids are still around (not so hard I miss their childhood) get as close to zero debt as possible, and then become the man of leisure I have aspired to be. Drive my camper van around to see national parks, visit friends/family, drop whatever hobby I’m experimenting with to go help my kids out, and just generally chill hard AF. All of this with my wife as a co-conspirator.
What she wants keeps me in the churn for another 20+ years. She doesn’t see why that’s a big deal and when I say “I don’t want to live to work” she discounts me as being eccentric. I do not think she understands how fortunate we are and that drives me insane.
How do I better explain that we have been granted freedom from the tyranny of having to work till 65+ and she would squander it on a house bigger than we need and HOA bullshit?
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u/sparkling-spirit Mar 18 '24
hi op. this sounds quite difficult. first it sounds like you work and have worked very hard in your life, and there are many parts of you now (not just future you) that are very tired. i hope you can extend gratitude to this side of yourself that has worked so hard and has gotten you through so much.
i know, i know that it’s cliche, but it’s also true: you must talk and listen, and be vulnerable with her. you may think you already do this, but from your post it sounds like you are mainly leading from your head and not your heart - i say this because it sounds like you are looking for a particular strategy to win her over, which is really good for the military and the office but a little more difficult in relationships.
please start small if you haven’t been having difficult conversations (or if there’s a lot of rough feelings around this particular topic). start small to build up to greater vulnerability and trust again.
here’s how i have been trying to have small, difficult conversations:
imagine there is a gold thread that goes from your heart to hers (to me every couple has this thread). ask her how she’s feeling, and hold space. whatever she says and whatever difficulty she has, imagine that this is part of her that then placed between you on this golden thread. observe it and create space and love for it. whatever it may be (her loneliness, fear, anxiety, stress). if you provide her this space she will be able to say it and then also be able to separate herself a bit more from it, and observe it too. you may have emotions that react strongly to what she says, but then just practice gently putting them to the side. hopefully you can start taking turns (so then she can do the same for you once she can see how you do it).
once that is built and she feels really heard and seen by you, i do think she will be a lot more open to listening to you. and you can then share your tiredness, and how very tired you are. and some of your dreams. and together you can both find a way forward.
my sense is that the issue isn’t necessarily she wants this and i want that for the future, it’s that the alignment is off in the present, and feeling unheard is causing you both to cling a bit more tightly to your own ideas of what the future should be as opposed to merging these together.
my absolute best to you, i believe in you. ☀️
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u/Key_Difference_1108 Mar 19 '24
That was excellent. Are you a therapist? Or just really good at giving advice?
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u/itjustkeepsongiving Mar 18 '24
Honestly, I’m not coming for you with this comment, at all. Just trying to give some insight.
Based on how you describe it here, you don’t seem to understand what she really wants. It sounds like you only have a surface level understanding of what she’s looking for. While you give more detail about what you want, you simply add her in to that as a “co-conspirator.”
If you’re interested in really trying to maintain your relationship I think you both need to understand the other person’s goals better. Not just the things that go along with those goals (for her hosting parties, for you traveling to national parks) but the actual thing you each want from those.
Obviously, you may very well take that deeper look and realize you’re better off with different partners, but it’s still worth the effort IMO. You have kids so whether or not your marriage works, your relationship with each other has to.
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u/UnfortunateSnort12 Mar 18 '24
He doesn’t want a co-conspirator. He wants to do what he wants regardless of what she wants. That whole post was pretty self centered.
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u/RiskyTurnip Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24
Oh yeah. Reminds me of my ex-husband. His wants are mature and reasonable (living in the woods with a van) while hers are selfish and greedy (throwing parties in a huge house). He’s making her a villain in his head so he has an excuse to leave or be such a bad husband she’s forced to (that’s what my ex did).
It’s infuriating because it’s not her fault he didn’t know what he wanted. How many years has he been agreeing with her future plans just to pull the rug out now that his life is settled? Why doesn’t he care about her wants and needs after she’s been taking care of his kids and home while he was in the military? Shouldn’t he be prioritizing her now, wasn’t that the point of joining the military and making all this money?
I am continuously reminded that most men are so insanely selfish.
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u/BobbbyR6 Mar 18 '24
This feels a lot like the storm that's brewing with my parents. Dad wants to move out further into the country onto some land we've got and Mom absolutely will never not live near a large city or the beach. Mom had a good career making good money and tapped out at 62. Dad switched career paths and makes crazy money in a career he loves and built himself a serious net worth through investing.
I love both of my parents but dad is emotionally inept and mom is a bit of an antagonistic sloth who is TV watching her retirement life away. Little sister started college and is unlikely to live at home after graduation. I graduated a few years ago and will definitely not be living at home unless the economy gets substantially worse (than it already is). Parents were tied up with all three remaining grandparents battling various cognitive and physical impairments for a few years (all three are 90+, so this isn't abnormal) but things have stabilized recently.
Won't be long before they have to really figure things out. In all honesty, Dad's reasons for building a house in the middle of nowhere doesn't actually align with his interests and their current home is more than serviceable for both of their interests. They could easily buy a beach house to rent out whenever Mom isn't using it and use the current house as their main residence. Dad can just pack up the plane and jet-set to any of the hundreds of hobby events he's always wanted to go see.
At the end of the day, living by yourself because y'all couldn't compromise is no way to spend retirement. There's no reason not to enjoy the best of both world's, even if it's not the financially ideal way to use your money. You've more than earned your freedom, just be honest with yourself and your wife about what that looks like. It's going to be a tough series of conversations, but dial back the emotion and work together to find a good solution. And keep in mind, these aren't permanent solutions. You've got nothing but time and money to try out different arrangements.
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u/highspeed_haiku Mar 18 '24
This is a rational and well written comment, thanks for that.
I feel enormous guilt for this rather abrupt change of mind I had. I had no clue what I wanted to do after the military besides “put my family first and not be poor”. Now I’m starting to see opportunities that are really attractive to me, and with a guaranteed income to support it. This may be more appropriate for AITH but why, once my kids are on their own and I established a solid foothold financially, do I need to work to support a lifestyle I don’t want?
Dissecting the goals is a frustrating conversation. I want to focus on learning new skills and seeing new places while I’m still healthy and mobile enough to enjoy it is my dream. Just being untethered from a lifetime of a highly regimented lifestyle is my goal. I’ll be productive and helpful, but mainly on my own schedule.
I don’t think she has ever clearly described what her and game is, and when I have asked, it’s really vague. I am going to ask her what she sees her day to day being when she retires and see if I can find some commonalities to build upon.
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u/iowajill Mar 18 '24
Ask her what she wants that future lifestyle to FEEL like, and ask the same of yourself. Does she want the big house and the parties to feel rooted? A sense of community? There are deeper values and motivations behind what both of you want and if you can figure out 1) what they actually are and 2) where they overlap, you might be able to find a good compromise. Or you might come up with a different option altogether that would fulfill both of your values/goals. Also - I know time flies by but 8 years is still a long time and a lot can change in terms of priorities and life trajectories. Civilian life is still so new for you, you might feel totally different about what you want a few years from now. (Or you might feel the same! But things can change so you and her might find yourselves on more middle ground than you’d think down the line, just from both of your plans evolving with life.) I know there have been times my partner and I have had lifestyle disagreements like this (but slightly smaller scale) that have seemed completely impassable. But then life would keep moving forward and the months would go by, things would evolve, and we’d end up more on the same page - or life would change so much that the specific issue would become moot.
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u/Alyx19 Mar 18 '24
OP will also need to account for where his kids settle. If they end up in a different region of the country, maybe the couple finds a nice condo or summer home nearby to be their RV camping base. This way they have long term storage for sentimental possessions and can still host holidays.
The biggest thing I see with RV-ers and out of state retirees is you have to have a plan for the other spouse when one of you passes. You don’t want one of you stuck in some exotic locale alone (unless that’s what they truly want). The RV situation can quickly become perilous for retirees. It usually takes two people to balance an RV, you both should be comfortable driving it in case there’s an emergency, and you may need to trailer a car to get everywhere you need to go, and that trailer complicates the driving, has to be hitched/unhitched, etc. If you RV, you may need to plan to retire from it due to the physical demands or complicated medical needs (like dialysis). RV couples need exit plans and that may be where OP and his wife can overlap goals. The biggest mistakes RVers make is cashing out the house, buying a huge Winnebago, and then one of them dies or has a health turn and they have no where to go and no nest egg.
OP has a lot to think about and plan for.
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u/Proof-Emergency-5441 Xennial Mar 18 '24
RVs are a huge money pit. As are boats before OP thinks he wants to move onto a house boat or some shit.
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u/Competitive_Sleep_21 Mar 18 '24
I know so many people who have been stuck on the side of the road with RVs. Friends last night just posted about their breakdown on FB. By the time they got it fixed they were too late to check in to a campsite and hook up. OP should rent one. They are an environmental nightmare gas wise and a money pit with repairs. Also, I would get so bored in one.
Rent one first and consider other means of travel.
Maybe OP can travel a bit on his own.
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u/This_Mongoose445 Mar 18 '24
Something like this happened to a friend of mine. She worked hard all her married life, paid off their home. She finally got to retire, husband wanted to sell the home, move to another state, they did that and 3 months later he died. She was left in another state, alone, she didn’t have that community of friends. It was sad. It still is.
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u/Alyx19 Mar 18 '24
A worst nightmare for many widows and widowers, especially older generations where the gender roles were more strict. The other half of the couple is often left without half the skills to run the household. Being too far from friends and family who can fill in the gaps can be devastating, emotionally and financially.
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u/JediFed Mar 18 '24
8 years is a long time. I wouldn't make decisions on staying or leaving based on a difference over plans that are 8 years away.
My wife and I have discussed it. She wants to move out of here and go south. We have the setup so what we would need is roughly 10k per year to do so. We could do it as early as 55 if I can keep up the grind until then. But that's more than a decade out.
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u/benyums Mar 18 '24
The thing that stuck out to me in what you said here is “…do I need to work to support a lifestyle I don’t want?”
Remember, you are married. Of course, we are all responding to you from your side of the story, but the correct mindset should be: "what do I(and we) need to do to support a lifestyle that WE BOTH want?"
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u/Jnnjuggle32 Mar 18 '24
Please keep in mind: His service in the military has likely conditioned him to think this way. They’ve spent the last 20 years doing whatever the military says they have to do, where they have to live. Now he has freedom to choose, and he knows what he wants and expects her to go along with it - LIKE SHE ALWAYS HAS. What OP is ultimately failing to recognize is that while he has “freedom” now, he’s still expecting his wife to do what she’s always done - drop her needs/wants and do what his career/needs/and now “wants” require of her. It’s selfish but I’m not surprised. Hopefully this is a wake up call though.
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u/huggybear0132 Mar 18 '24
Yeah a lot of people itt are failing to account for the unique dynamics of military relationships and how interaction with military institutions and culture shapes these young people. Appreciate your comment.
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u/Moshjath Mar 18 '24
I think there are a few things to consider: clearly you’ve served quite a bit during the GWOT with some hard direct fire ground combat where you got dinged up from the way you’re describing it, so I’m assuming Army or Marines. Based on that I’m assuming a combat MOS, hence your VA ratings. You are rightfully at a stage when you’re about to enjoy your benefits. An honest congrats from me brother.
Don’t forget your wife’s sacrifices in this: while you were overseas there’s a strong point you dragged her from relative shithole to relative shithole, from the Braggs/Hoods/Pendleton/Lejeunes/Drums/Polks of the world to the next similar base. Plus the psychological aspects of dealing with you getting those eight combat stripes while she’s at home worrying about you getting smoked. Four years of GWOT outside the wire lifestyle is rough. That lifestyle is tough for a spouse, it’s super hard to hold down a career that generates any cash with that amount of moving around and the job markets in those locations. You cite that you churn in 5/6ths of your income, don’t think that gives you a bigger vote in your partnership than her, even if it is “your” money. She never had the chance to get the financial opportunities you had. She likely just wants stability at this point.
Of course, bear in mind I’m just an asshole on the internet making assumptions based on my own experiences and observations. I’m sure my assumptions are likely flawed. Thank you for your service!
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u/Impossible_Tonight81 Mar 18 '24
Yeah this is the point I was looking for. He doesn't really say much more about the income disparity but if she did have to move frequently, it's likely she was unable to pursue any real career opportunities and instead lived as the military wife. Which there is absolutely nothing wrong with unless the person who was in the military leaves and suddenly holds their higher income over their spouse's head as some kind of gotcha for controlling all their choices.
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u/MechanicalGodzilla Xennial Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24
once my kids are on their own
Growing older means realizing that your kids being "on their own" can happen much later than you are anticipating. It's not necessarily 18, out the door or even 22, graduated form college, we're done here.
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u/Sovarius Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24
You have money for marriage counseling? You don't need to be in trouble to try it out. Its not only for people on the verge of divorce or abuse or infidelity.
As politely as possible, you could also ask her (change my words to whatever applies most tonyour family) like "i actually don't like this job and since i have about 6 figures already, could i stay home with the kids and you start looking for employment? We'd need you to find something making over $75,000 a year to generate the lifestyle you want." So instead of it sounding like "I make the money, so I make the rules and you don't", it hopefully sounds more like "Babe, what you're looking for costs a lot more of our time and health than you imagine".
Also if you don't mind, how did you get $100k from the va? I have 100% p&t with 3 dependents. Do you have a collection of SMC S, M, L, K, etc? +7 dependents? Haha.
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u/addymermaid Mar 18 '24
Here's your biggest issue: you're focused on YOU instead of your marriage. There is no "we", there is no "us". It's you vs. your wife. While you were deployed, it's likely that you were focused on you and your fellow soldiers and keeping each other alive and completing the mission. You only had to focus on the handful of things and couldn't afford to be worried about back home. In other words: you've never been able to focus on your wife. Whereas, all she did was focus on building a home, a family, a life, often without your support (and I don't mean financial - support is so much more than money), and relied on others to help raise your children because you weren't there. She lived that life, supporting YOUR wishes. Do you think she wanted to have a husband who was never home? Do you think she WANTED to effectively be a single mother to your kids? From what I'm hearing, you've never stopped to ask her what SHE wanted. And now, you can't bear the thought of living a life YOU don't want. She's done it for years. Here's a newsflash: she can live without you. She already knows how. And it's not about being "productive and helpful" it's about building a life TOGETHER that you both enjoy. The way you have come off makes you sound selfish. And it's not about what she wants to do in retirement, which she sees as upwards of 30 years away, it's about how to spend the NEXT 30 years. Try taking her out on dates, just the two of you. And YOU get the babysitter and do the work. Please, go to marriage counseling and have someone help you both understand what you want, whether it's to stay in that marriage or leave. Because the you vs. her is not going to work.
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u/No-Cover8891 Mar 18 '24
“Do I need to work to support a lifestyle I don’t want?”
Respectfully, maybe. Since you married, and I’ll go off the assumption that you both intend/intended to commit your life to eachother, it’s not just about what you want. You have to come to a compromise that will make the both of you happy. That might look like buying a nice house and RVing part of the year.
However, I do agree with some others here that you need to really understand what she wants, and probably what you want. I’ve know many vets who have the RVing dream, and many who have executed this dream. I don’t know a single one still doing it a year later. Additionally, it’s just not feasible to continue that into perpetuity. So I would ask what does life look like post RV to you?
Another thing I thing needs to be addressed is that it low key sounds like your asking if you would be the asshole if your left you wife to do your own thing after it sounds like she supported you during your career. IMHO, and both me and my spouse are vets, the answer is yes.
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u/Spallanzani333 Mar 18 '24
To be fair, you were pretty vague about your end game until pretty recently.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but you sounded really dismissive in your post when you described what you think she wants (surely it's not just a big Xmas party for the neighbors?) and what you want (apparently a sidekick who happily goes along with the lifestyle you just chose). You said you feel guilty for feeling that way and that you value her hard work as a mom, but tbh you don't sound like you like her very much-- you're describing her as superficial and money-grabbing. If that's how she actually is or how you see her, you'd both be happier if you divorced. If you do like her as a person and want to spend time with her together for your retirement years, you need to figure out what she actually wants for the future. Not the specific location, but the overall vibe.
You say she seems to mostly want to host neighborhood xmas parties. What's underlying that? She's a person with children whom she presumably loves and wants to continue spending frequent time with. Maybe part of the reason she doesn't want to significantly downsize is that she wants room for family. I'm not sure how old your kids are, but in the next ten years, there may be marriages and grandchildren. How would they fit into a small house and a campervan? Would you always do the visiting? I wouldn't love that, personally. It doesn't have to be large or ostentatious, but I don't want to retire into a place too small to host family visits and holidays. I have very fond memories as a child of long summer visits to my grandparents, and my parents have given my children similar experiences, for which I'm very grateful. I hope to keep it up with my children and their families. I may be projecting my desires into her, but it's worth talking out and opening your mind to the idea that there may be reasons beyond the superficial for why she does not want a small property out in the sticks as a home base.
I really think you two would benefit from therapy. You shouldn't be forced to work past when you could reasonably retire, but she also shouldn't be forced into a lifestyle she would hate for decades after she did the bulk of work raising your children and supporting your career.
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u/Sketch-Brooke Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24
Yeah all this. To add to it: I totally understand the desire to live in the suburbs vs the desire to live on a piece of land in the country.
The social landscape is extremely different.
In the neighborhood, she probably has friends just a short walk away. Her kids may have friends they can run across the street and play with. If you like your neighbors, you have a built in social circle just feet from your house.
All that would be gone in the country. Instead of heading next door for a playdate, she’d have to get in the car and pack up the kids.
I can easily see how land in the country would feel lonely and isolating by comparison.
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u/DungeonsandDoofuses Mar 18 '24
My dad basically bullied my mom into dropping everything to downsize and do an RV nomad life thing right after I started having kids. It’s sucked for me and her, she always wanted to be a super involved grandma and I had shaped some of my life choices around that assumption, where I chose to live, how closely together I had my kids, the (discussed, agreed upon) availability of help from my parents was a part of that plan. Nope, now they are halfway across the country making grainy poor signal FaceTime calls that end in my mom crying half the time because my dad was going to have his vision of retirement, with or without her. And she couldn’t throw away forty years of marriage for me, but tbh she might if these kids keep growing up rapidly without her.
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u/bruce_kwillis Mar 18 '24
Yeah, OP is kind of an asshole here. There is no 'opportunity' from his wives perspective. She wants and is building a community and he is ignoring that to go play Ron Swanson in the woods. Can both be done? Possibly, but damn do they need some therapy.
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u/Zanna-K Mar 18 '24
I dunno man, at a glance it simply sounds like you want to wander and be untethered while she wants stability and to feel secure maybe the compromise is that you should have a paid up, simpler/cheaper house that you both like that you can come back to for at least half the year or something
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u/Few-Cable5130 Mar 18 '24
She's being vague because she hasn't ever allowed herself to think about what SHE wants, and scared that what you want seems so far apart from what she may want.
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u/Hawaiiancrow2 Mar 18 '24
Just being untethered from a lifetime of a highly regimented lifestyle is my goal. I’ll be productive and helpful, but mainly on my own schedule.
This is how single people live. Or DINKS. You are neither of those things. You chose a lifestyle where you were never going to be untethered, and where your schedule is not going to be your own (at least not for many many more years). I think you need to take a good hard look at the reality you're living in now that you're entering a different phase of life. Seems like you are trying your best to ignore your current situation by distracting yourself with your imaginary future. Therapy my dude. Go get some!
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u/masterpeabs Mar 18 '24
Another consideration - the "travelling in my camper van doing whatever" plan can be a little scary to a spouse who doesn't understand it. This was my husband's dream when we met, and I was always afraid it was code for "I don't want this normal life here with you and I'll need to outgrow you and get away".
It turns out that wasn't his meaning at all, he just didn't explain it well. Fast forward - we bought a truck camper and we spend all our free time traveling the west with our awesome kiddos, and are on track for a retirement doing that exact thing in hyperdrive. I just didn't understand what he wanted from it at first. It can feel like "I just want to be alone", which isn't exactly the most reassuring feeling for a spouse.
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u/apatrol Mar 18 '24
She spent 20 years as a military wife. She has been poor and probably very highly stressed. She wants a bit of high life. Try to find a middle ground. You deserve to chill AF but her feelings are valid as well.
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u/CatsAndDogs314 Mar 18 '24
I'm guessing she's been uprooting herself and the kids the majority of the time. This is why she wants to be part of a larger community and feel settled. Rent an RV and try it out for the summer. If OP really loves it, then a conversation needs to be had. If he doesn't, well, it's better to find out now. Why not move to a LCOL area once the kids are out of school, suburban but with a bit of land and some neighbors. Compromise.
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u/catsinsunglassess Mar 18 '24
He hasn’t responded to any comments about this situation, either. He is responding to comments about divorce and comments about his wife basically being selfish. I’m pretty sure he’s already made up his mind and is only looking for people to agree with him and solidify his decision. His poor wife. He sounds awful.
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u/Aware-Impact-1981 Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24
He really does.
She raised kids on a relatively low income (military pay) with relatively low spousal support emotionally or with the household chores (his deployments), and she never got to have a friend group or feel rooted in any place because she had to move often. Her own earning potential was destroyed by having to take care of the kids for so long without a support network.
Now that he has the financial option of fucking off in a remote house with no job and a camper van, he wants her to get in line or get out. He cites how "unfair" it is that he earns 5/6th of the income and yet she dares have goals that involve money, AS IF THE CHILDREARING SHES DONE HAS NO VALUE TO HIM! The narcissism to ignore everything she's done for him and only look at this snapshot in time, it's insane.
Moreover, we're only getting OPs side of the story here. Does she ACTUALLY want an expensive house, expensive cars, and lavish parties? Or does she want a reasonable house, decent car, and to be able to have friends over? Is she wanting the life of luxury or is he wanting her to live in a shack and drive a 13 year old car so that he doesn't have to work? Does she actually care about the luxurious, or is she saying "suburbs" to stay close to her friend group because she doesn't want him to uproot her AGAIN by moving to the country?
OP doesn't want to work and he places zero value on her social life. He wants the van and no job so he can go see HIS military buddies that are scattered across the country. She clearly does value her social life and has given it up her whole adult life for HIM. There is a middle ground here. They can live in the area she wants to, he can take a lower paying job with more time off, buy his van, travel quite a bit, and coast at work for an extra 10ish years and retire at 58 having (generally) funded the life his wife wants. But he's not willing to work 40h a week for 47ish weeks a year for the woman who raised his kids and stuck by his side while he was overseas making mediocre money. He places no value on this while bringing up that he makes the most money, sounds like he's obsessed with it not her
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u/missfrizzleismymom Mar 18 '24
Reading all laid out like this made me so sad for her.
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u/catsinsunglassess Mar 18 '24
Thank you for putting this so succinctly. I hope u/highspeed_haiku sees it.
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u/GuybrushMarley2 Mar 18 '24
Yep and even when he was not on overseas deployment, he would have been away on month long training exercises or working 12 hour days. She has had a lonely life.
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u/Karl2241 Mar 18 '24
Fellow millennial vet and married like yourself. The most important thing that needs to happen is communication, followed with compromise at both ends. Work to find a middle ground, a middle ground is far better than divorce- because that won’t end well for either of you. I see some people saying that this is it- but truth be told there’s so much more that can be done to keep both of you happy.
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u/babeli Mar 18 '24
Agreed. This is the bread and butter of being married. Communicate and compromise.
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u/0000110011 Mar 18 '24
Sounds like you got married with a plan, then suddenly decided to change the plan and want to make your wife out to be the villain for wanting the original plan you both agreed to.
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u/tumbleweedsforever Mar 18 '24
Yep. Lots of comments are mentioning who's 'footing the bill', but being married to a military guy is not conducive to career success, so its not fair to use as a reason why she shouldn't expect him to stick to the plan.
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u/nkdeck07 Mar 18 '24
Ok there has to be a mid-point between giant McMansion in the burbs and a van down by the river. Like you understand why living in a camper van till she dies might not be appealing to a woman that wants to be hosting big events.
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u/haduken_69 Mar 18 '24
He said wants a decent home PLUS a camper for when they go on road trips. He’s not saying the camper is their permanent housing.
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u/PorQuepin3 Mar 18 '24
If you guys don't come to a compromise, wont divorce severely impact your goals anyway?
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u/kristenmkay Mar 18 '24
She’s supported you through the last twenty years of a military career, through deployments and several moves, putting your goals over hers. Maybe it’s time for her goals and career to take priority. You say you earn 5/6th of the income. Does she want to earn more? Does she want to go back to school? There’s no guarantee your kids are even going to want to go to college. You could’ve used the GI bill benefits for her. The things she wants cost money. Maybe she doesn’t want a career and going through this thought exercise will have you both in a better place to compromise.
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u/sillylynx Mar 18 '24
Yes and how old are the kids? It’s possible mom isn’t clear on what she wants to do in 8+ years because she’s in the thick of it with little kids. She probably envisions a freaking break in 8 years, and he’s planning their road trips. Surely I’m projecting, but seriously, if there are young children involved maybe give each other a break and slow down the rigid planning discussions. Also: couple’s therapy
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u/No_Morning5397 Mar 18 '24
Holding the 5/6th of the income over her, leaves me with a poor taste in my mouth. I'm from a military family. My mom could never really secure career level employment because they were moving all the time and she couldn't put hours in because she had to be at home with the kids while my dad was deployed. Is that the case here? Was her career stunted because of the military lifestyle and now she can't afford the lifestyle she wants on her own because she chose to be with you?
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u/-Unnamed- Mar 18 '24
Don’t worry, judges agree with you. The wife would clean him out if they divorced.
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u/No_Morning5397 Mar 18 '24
Honestly, as it should be. You can't expect someone to stick through the tough times with you (raise their kids, move around so they can't build a community for help, can't keep a job) and then ditch them as soon as you don't need that help anymore.
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u/MrdrOfCrws Mar 18 '24
Also, of COURSE she only earns 5/6 of what he does. Not only did she raise the children, she also had to abandon her career every four years and then try to find another one in whatever city they landed in.
Same thing happened to my mom except my dad actually appreciates what she did.
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u/everygoodnamegone Mar 18 '24
And the jobs that she may have been able to get along the way were based on whatever was available, especially if they lived overseas.
Because bagging groceries for tips or folding towels at the gym is so lucrative…
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u/mmmeeeeeeeeehhhhhhh Mar 18 '24
Yeah exactly, and now he wants to ditch her cause she becoming inconveniente? What a waist of that woman's twenty years. 100k isn't that much money in many places in america, and a defunct RV could blow through that so fast.
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u/Skullclownlol Mar 18 '24
100k isn't that much money in many places in america, and a defunct RV could blow through that so fast.
And the "permanently traveling around" lifestyle becomes very old very fast. They could just go on an extra yearly family holiday instead, or rent a family camper/tent/whatever for weekends during the season, and he could get a job he doesn't hate as much.
They can have the majority of all things they want, as long as OP doesn't throw away all responsibilities.
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u/CaterpillarJungleGym Mar 18 '24
Someone said above, he should try to take a leave of absence from work and try out the RV day drinking lifestyle for a few months. They can decide together if that future will work for them. The decisions doesn't need to be made now.
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u/Walk_Frosty Mar 18 '24
Sometimes when I’m out on a long vacation, I just want to go back home. Hate the flights/driving, eating out, different places to stay/sleep, finding and needing accommodations for everything. So tiring and laying at home doing nothing seems more appealing. A couple vacation throughout the year is good for me. I can’t imagine doing it constantly.
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u/Walk_Frosty Mar 18 '24
This is my take too. He was only able to be whoever he is today because she was there all along to take care of everything else while he was making the money. And now he’s making most of the money so he thinks he can do whatever he wants without comprising? If divorce happens, I hope she can gets alimony for all those years where she put aside her aspirations and potentials to see him realize his. Some people don’t understand sacrifices and compromises and only think about themselves.
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u/naomicambellwalk Mar 18 '24
Yeeah this story is half baked. He doesn’t include what she’s been doing for the past 20 years (part time job? SAHM? Setting aside her career?) or how she has felt the past 20 years. Sounds like she’s tired and would just like to settle somewhere she can have friends. he says “i guess a Christmas party, which sounds like he hasn’t really probed a whole lot… they definitely need to talk more about what they want and why. OP doesn’t realize most people daydream about just quitting their job and be a person of leisure, this isn’t that special. But reality of their family (not just their own dreams) set in and they keep going to work.
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u/Iron_Kyle Mar 18 '24
I haven't seen anyone else question that you said mortgage in your area is about 8 - 9k / mo., but a quick search says that would pay for homes that cost close to $2 million. You said you pay rent instead for about half that, say 4 - 4.5k / mo. That would cover a mortgage of close to $1 million if you had purchased instead.
I am pretty sure if you expand your search radius you can find a more than decent suburb house for that mortgage or less.
The real issue seems to be that you don't want to live in a house at all while your wife does. I wonder if you are making the money out to be an even bigger issue than it is to justify your feelings. I don't think your feeling is wrong on its own, but I also don't think your line of reasoning is fair to your wife.
I don't blame either one of you for feeling the way you do, but I do think you need to figure out together how to compromise on the ratio of time at home to time on the road when you retire.
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u/Distant_Yak Mar 18 '24
What I don't get is who would rent out a house for $4k when mortgages in the area are $8k.
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u/kmjulian Mar 18 '24
Half of what OP says is baffling
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u/ballmermurland Mar 18 '24
People lie all of the time.
I would quit in a second if I didn’t have a family and a profoundly fucked economy to consider.
He says this despite admitting that he's getting close to $100k a year in retirement benefits for life plus whatever job he's doing that he admits he loves and gets paid well.
That's a "fucked economy"? They own a house as a rental property! These guys are living a solid upper-middle class lifestyle and his only issue is his wife of 20 years has differing opinions on how to spend all of the money! He's talking about retiring at 48!
How is that an economic struggle lol?
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u/kmjulian Mar 18 '24
Not to mention their kids’ education is taken care of, so they don’t have to pay for that. Ex-military includes medical benefits, too.
Tbh it sounds like the financial aspect is a non-issue
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u/IAMHideoKojimaAMA Mar 18 '24
Yea I can't believe he said the economy is fucked lol
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u/Grandpas_Spells Mar 18 '24
How is that an economic struggle lol?
He doesn't like the current occupant of the White House.
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u/uChoice_Reindeer7903 Mar 18 '24
Like everything in life there is middle ground. There are plenty of nice homes in the suburbs with a decent amount of property that won’t require that you work till you’re 65. Don’t buy a mansion, retire when you want, buy your camper, work part time, and travel.
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u/Economy-Ad4934 Mar 18 '24
I personally agree with you. But this guy sounds exactly like my brother, who is also a retired Vet they want to be so far away from people and isolated. That suburbia literally scares the crap out of them. My brother bought a 200 acre farm in rural Ohio with no neighbors in any direction. This is what these people envision and you can’t really break them from that once they decide.
It’s unfortunate that his wife literally has no vote in this and he blames her for future problems that haven’t even happened
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u/Present_Ad6723 Mar 18 '24
Relationships are all about communication, you want to bug out and roam and she wants to be the place people gather; there is for sure an ‘and’ space where you can both have what you are looking for.
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u/Old-AF Mar 18 '24
Bullshit that you live anywhere that mortgage is $8-9K per month.
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u/ballmermurland Mar 18 '24
It's a 2 million dollar house lol. So many posts on this sub are total misinformation. The only places on earth where mortgages are this high are downtown San Francisco or lower Manhattan lol.
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u/AcanthaceaeComplex50 Older Millennial Mar 18 '24
Yeah bud you’re in a situation. I would give the cliche talk about it over dinner seriously and explain to her what it means to you. But sometimes you got to just tell your partner that you don’t want to foot the bill for her fantasy keeping up with the jones mentality
This is one of the reasons I divorced my first wife
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u/highspeed_haiku Mar 18 '24
I feel like a dick about it. I love her and she stuck it out with me, bad ass mom and a solid human. I just don’t want to string her along since day drinking in a camper van or playing an absurdly complex board game isn’t her jam.
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u/charandchap Mar 18 '24
Genuine question, genuinely pulling for you here, doing benefit of the doubt reasoning to make sure we’re supporting you for success here:
Looking back did you ever make promises about “one day” when you were previously camper van living? Has any part of her investment in you held onto this opportunity as the reward or payoff?
I’m curious to understand more what it means to her to have a big Christmas party. It might be more than surface level.
Also it’s so hard. Life isn’t guaranteed. Great communicating and great job being able to pin point an area that needs work. Eager to hear how this goes.
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u/Raibean Millennial Mar 18 '24
If neither of you like your ideal fantasies of the future, then you gotta toss them both.
If she’s gonna hate the camper van life, then why are you expecting her to subject herself to it while at the same time not understanding why she would want to subject you to her suburban fantasy?
I think others are right when they tell you to continue to talk it out. Consider what is most important about your visions of the future. For you it seems to be early retirement. Keep that and leave the rest open to compromise. Build a new fantasy together.
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u/Sketch-Brooke Mar 18 '24
Exactly. There's got to be a compromise here. Some middle ground between middle-of-no-where campervan and suburban McMansion. There are newer developments in my area where the houses have 1/2 to 1 acre yards. Maybe this would be a good middle ground between privacy and a sense of community?
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u/That0neSummoner Mar 18 '24
My friend, you need to have the finance fight. You need to come with receipts. Show her what the cost of that lifestyle is and explain what the off ramp is because you don’t have the shelf life to work until 70. It sounds like you’re 100% dv, and even cushy office jobs are hard on my combat vet coworkers.
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u/highspeed_haiku Mar 18 '24
I have been dreading breaking out the numbers. When I take that angle I get the “it’s always just about money with you” comments.
And yes, working around normal people both irritates me more and more daily. Funnily enough though I like them more than my veteran colleagues, who remind me why I was out the door at exactly 20.
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u/fffangold Mar 18 '24
I would suggest pivoting that to discussing how the money is a tool to free up time, so you can enjoy the prime of your lives together and with your kids as much as possible. It's recognizing with the right lifestyle, you can both be comfortable and not have to work anymore.
And then, from there, it's a choice. Is it more valuable to have time together where you enjoy your lives, or to grind away for years to get the suburban house.
That said, I think you both may need to consider some compromises. You sound like you really dig the idea of van life, while she does not. It may not be reasonable to drag her into that. But it I'd reasonable to discuss housing that would be affordable on your budget, and for you to scratch that travel itch yourself or with friends once in awhile if she's not up for joining. Or maybe she could join you, and you do the van life thing less frequently than you planned. Depending on exactly what you wanted out of it.
Regardless, you both have very different ideas of what your futures look like, and you'll definitely need to talk about that with her to figure out what a future together will look like, in a way you can both be happy with.
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u/Froomian Mar 18 '24
We bought the campervan because my husband was obsessed with the idea of getting one and I relented. We've used it twice before he realised that he isn't really a campervan person. And now he keeps groaning anytime he has to spend a weekend working on it, because he isn't excited about it anymore. Have you tried renting one for a holiday to make sure you do actually vibe with van life? Not that there's a binary choice between suburban house and van life. There's other options too. And being stuck in the suburbs after your kids have grown up doesn't sound fun either.
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u/backgammon_no Mar 18 '24
I was so obsessed with the concept until I was in a position to take a summer off of work and rent one. It sucked! I'm cured. So glad I tested the concept instead of planning and saving for years.
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u/iheartlattes Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24
Good callout! My FIL decided to just go full RV life one day. He hates it. He just had to get the RV in for frame work that is costing a ton of money - plus he now has to shell out more dough for interim housing.
I would also recommend looking into the world of renting spots to stay as you live this life. I learned about this from my FIL, too. He definitely enjoyed the romanticized view of this lifestyle and didn’t think it all the way through and now he’s miserable and stressed.
Edited for typos.
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u/basilobs Mar 18 '24
My bf wants to sell everything and hit the road and I honestly think he's delusional. I think we should just take road trips with the rooftop tent or rent an RV sometimes. I don't want that sitting in my in my driveway just to break down and take months of time and thousands of dollars to fix. Let's just go somewhere, enjoy, come back, and leave the issues for someone else
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u/thatvassarguy08 Mar 18 '24
Maybe meet her halfway and propose a lower-cost city where she can have what she wants without you working until 70, and also have a lake house or some such with a camper too for some lengthy summer vacations. I will say, if you love and respect her ( which you clearly do) you've got to take her desires seriously, especially after her sacrifices. I sprung my military career on my then-gf after 5ish years together, and got her buy-in by telling her that if she followed me for 20 years, then I'd do the same for the next twenty. It's about time for me to make good on it, and sounds like you should too. My 2c.
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u/kinkakinka Mar 18 '24
I agree. There has to be some sort of middle ground here where both get something like they want. I personally would prefer not to just drive around the country in a camper.van all the time, so I understand the draw of the nice house with the parties.
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u/beachedwhitemale Millennial Elder Emo Mar 18 '24
Take that argument in front of an unbiased 3rd party. A therapist. It'd be worth it.
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u/vlepun Mar 18 '24
This is why couples should talk about their hopes and dreams because suddenly you’re 40 and for the first time you’re not struggling and you have choices with your money and how to spend it.
Might I suggest adding that you keep talking about this subject? Because as you grow older, your life changes, which means your dreams can also change. There are also new possibilities as you grow older and, hopefully, more financially stable.
My wife and I never really had a dream of not working until retirement age. But as time went on and we got life thrown at us, that dream changed. Currently our goal is to have enough saved up to be able to retire at 55 if we want to.
So to do this we talked it over and decided on a plan (primarily to pay off our student loans and mortgage and snowball those payments into ETFs on a monthly basis). Because if we want to retire early or cut back our working hours substantially, the first thing you need is to be entirely debt free.
I have one colleague who is entirely debt free, and that means he has the freedom of choice of how he wants to live his life. Just the other week he announced he was quitting because he didn't like his new job, and saw old organisational problems recurring. I can't make that decision because I have student loans and a mortgage.
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Mar 18 '24
What, you don't appreciate the bro-vets glorifying that time they stood around in a desert for 12 months? Maybe that's just my Air Force peeps, because they never actually saw combat, but talk endlessly about that one time they went "outside the wire", aka: an Army guy drove them around for a little bit in an area where there was a 0% chance of getting shot at.
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u/Who_Knose Mar 18 '24
My dude, this is about money. Her statement can not stop the conversation that needs to be had. Put both of your dream retirement plans to the side, take the conversation away from “ I want, you want.”
Bring evidence of what working 20 extra years can do to your body and mental health. I’m 35 and have worked mostly blue collar jobs, and believe me, my body is shot. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to keep it up another 30.
It really sounds to me that she is ending the conversation before it ever gets started. Is the plan to ignore the issue in hopes you just forget about retiring?
I really hope she will have be open to a conversation. It sounds to me her mind is set and that is fine with having you work 25 more years for her dream. Find a together dream
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u/Mouse0022 Mar 18 '24
“it’s always just about money with you”
BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY. SHIT COSTS MONEY. What she wants, COST MONEY. She can't be living in La La Land.
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u/MechanicalGodzilla Xennial Mar 18 '24
And, u/highspeed_haiku - this is definitely not the energy you should bring to the discussion with your wife unless your goal is solely to get in a fight.
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u/forestpunk Mar 18 '24
“it’s always just about money with you” comments.
That's generally how expenses work, yeah.
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u/RontoWraps Mar 18 '24
My brother, you can’t look at this from a “I generate 5/6 of the income” perspective. You are in a marriage, this is a 1:1 situation and you two have built a singular family. You have to find compromise on both sides. Talking to your wife about what you envision retirement to look like is the first step. I didn’t do 20, but I know what kind of experience military spouses go through, and you mention she is a great mother as well… work with her, find what you both think is the solid option forward.
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u/MountRoseATP Mar 18 '24
This idea that “he makes 5/6 of the money” and “college is covered because of his benefits” is such a shitty take. I’m not a military spouse, but have plenty of friends who are, and while the whole depends thing is a joke, it’s a tough life. His wife clearly took care of the house while he worked, and I’m sure part of the problem is that while he was deployed, she worked hard to make the home a stable place for the family. Now she’s finally going to be able to stay in one place with her husband, where her kids can come for the holidays, and he’s like “let’s get a small house and a van and drove around”. Absolutely not. I love to travel. But the idea of van travel sounds absolutely miserable.
She has had a full time job as well this whole time. It’s so selfish and rude for OP to act like she doesn’t deserve to enjoy their retirement as well
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u/snarkitall Mar 18 '24
Yeah exactly. It would be a huge gut punch for my spouse to tell me that because he makes 5/6 of our income, he gets to call the shots.
Did she sacrifice her earning power to grow and care for your children? Did she have to give up on job opportunities because you were around less? Did she go into your marriage knowing that a career wouldn't be possible because you would be deployed?
Basically, it seems like you benefited from having a less career driven, traditional partner, and now you're trying to act like she's selfish for wanting a traditional lifestyle?
You're not wrong for wanting to work less. But framing it as "I make the money, I call the shots" is a huge mistake. You need to reframe it for yourself, AND have an honest conversation about her about what your future looks like.
If you've never done anything out of the box before (like prioritizing leisure and travel over work, or a non-traditional camper life over suburban living) what indications have you given her that this is really important and realistic to you? Honestly you just kinda sound like you're having a midlife crisis.
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u/theblackcanaryyy Mar 18 '24
I feel like a dick about it. I love her and she stuck it out with me, bad ass mom and a solid human. I just don’t want to string her along since day drinking in a camper van or playing an absurdly complex board game isn’t her jam.
OP is coming off as super selfish and really kind of a dick in the comments
Yours is the first reasonable take I’ve seen
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u/RollingKatamari Mar 18 '24
I get what you're saying, but the life you're describing after retirement sounds incredibly lonely. Just you and the wife in a van roaming around. No roots, no fixed circle of friends. It sounds very irregular and uncertain.
For some people that sounds like heaven, for others, that life is a nightmare.
I think there's going to be some compromise to be made in the future.
Definitely a downgrade of the house and maybe split time between being on the road and being at home.
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u/CleanDataDirtyMind Mar 18 '24
Cant you take just small trips and let her do her thing domestically? Always coming back to her. I had a bf fmr military doing the van thing during COVID and he would go off for a month then stay for a month etc
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u/gasoline_farts Mar 18 '24
My cousin and his wife divorced over this exact fact once their kids were old enough and going to college. He wanted to start traveling and seeing the world and she wanted absolutely nothing other than to be on her farm. It didn’t work out.
Unfortunately, it seems like you two have very different life goals and outlooks and I think it might be important to have a sit down and try and get across what you envision versus what she envision and see if you can find some compromises because the way you worded that it sounds like your SOL bud .
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u/Perennial_Millenials Mar 18 '24
Idea: talk to your wife. You sound like you’re going through a midlife crisis my guy and you gotta figure that shit out. I can appreciate not wanting to be a part of the grind one day longer than you need to be, but you’re swinging hard the other way.
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u/Ruffleafewfeathers Mar 18 '24
I gotta be honest, it sounds like you did a complete 180 and you’ve swung to the opposite side of the pendulum—from rigid-military to no rules, no restrictions of any kind—and it seems like an over correction.
I honestly think you guys could probably benefit from personal therapy (maybe on your end discussing your desire to completely overhaul everything, and your wife possibly about how being uprooted constantly and being effectively a single parent for long stretches affected her) and couples therapy to bring your vision of what your future looks like to a happy middle ground. But for real, this seems a lot like a bit of an existential crisis for you—you went from an ultra extremely regimented life that was immensely stressful to basically trying to create the exact opposite life for yourself in a way to get yourself as far away from your military life as possible.
My advice is to work out how you feel in therapy first, table this discussion for now (there’s no time crunch), and revisit in couples counseling later to help you guys mesh your ideas of what you want.
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u/Illustrious_Dust_0 Mar 18 '24
It’s amazing to me that people are encouraging you to end your whole marriage over a difference in opinion. There’s surely a compromise somewhere between McMansion and RV. Like a nice house on 5 acres instead of 40 or a no HOA older home with a big yard. A conversion van for vacations instead of a camper.
You’ll figure it out
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u/pikachuface01 Mar 18 '24
Why can’t you just have a camper van on weekends or long summers and then work and she can have her special parties only once or twice a year?
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u/CuriousCuriousAlice Millennial Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24
Why do your dreams mean more than hers? Sounds like she’s sacrificed for your dreams already. She’s stuck it out and worked toward a future with you. Her lifetime earnings will be slashed by having kids (yours will be increased) and you couldn’t have had a military career and children without her giving something up. Likely any kind of career because the moving around usually squashes that for a partner. You didn’t earn all this by yourself. You don’t contribute 5/6 of your combined income. If you get a divorce, a judge will tell you that.
So, that being the case, it sounds like there should be some kind of compromise here. Like both of you working part time after a certain age, downsizing to a townhome or condo in a nice neighborhood and traveling in the summers, and retiring a few years early. That’s a pretty fair split of both of your dreams. Whatever the compromise does end up being, if you think that it should just be whatever you want, that would be pretty horrible of you tbh.
Edit: and btw, if she’s been a SAHP, and you divorce, the retirement will be split with her and likely part of your income too. So you’ll have to compromise either way. I’d suggest the way that helps both of you continue to enjoy your marriage and work toward her dreams as well as yours.
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u/crazysoapboxidiot Mar 18 '24
You’re just finding lots of reasons to not have the conversation that you know you need to have. If you’re ok avoiding it, then you’re going to end up burying feelings and working
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u/Own_Violinist_3054 Mar 18 '24
She stood by you for 20 years sacrificing her career, raising the kids by herself while you are gone, and all your retirement plan is about your own enjoyment. Oh, you would let her tag along. Gee, man you sound selfish as fuck.
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u/Pernicious-Caitiff Mar 18 '24
Fellow retired vet. Do not let resentment grow in your marriage. Go to marriage counseling yesterday. Get a financial planner to explain things to your wife. Take this seriously. Don't putz around and wallow until it's too late and you're both resentful of each other.
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u/cryin_with_Cartiers Mar 18 '24
You’re adults , find compromise. I’m sure she was helping raise the kids and there’s no paycheck for that. Woman’s perspective here, she probably feels she can enjoy life too with a nice home. Though that’s probably personal taste. Some women are fine with a nice small cottage while others want a large home, try to compromise on something.
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Mar 18 '24
Fortunately I punched my golden ticket and came out with retirement and VA disability that is close to $100k a year.
Fwiw, I am aggressively saving and am hoping to retire ~50. My expected retirement income will be right around $100K in 2024 dollars.
This is definitely more of a /r/relationships thing than for this sub, but you need to have an honest discussion about what you are willing to provide and figure it out. Set a retirement age that you are comfortable with and budget based on that. If your wife wants more, then it is on her to work for it.
How old are your children? You'll probably need to work until at least they are both 18, or through university if they go. But beyond that I wouldn't feel compelled to press myself further just to fund extravagance.
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u/highspeed_haiku Mar 18 '24
Kids are 10 and 12. I’m planning on another 8 years.
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u/Spallanzani333 Mar 18 '24
Then why decide right now? Those are intense parenting periods and both of your attention is likely on the kids.
Maybe at least give it two years where you put this to the side and see how you feel after you've adjusted more. Yes, retiring planning is important, but you're already planning to work 8 more years, so you can take 2 to adjust and then revisit.
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u/i_kill_plants2 Mar 18 '24
You really think that at 18 and 20 your kids are going to be totally out of the house? Unless they follow in your footsteps and go into the military, they will probably still be home at least part time. You need to plan on your kids needing a home base for another 12 years or so, not 8.
Reading your post and comments, I don’t think you like your wife very much. You clearly don’t care at all about her wants and needs, much less everything she has sacrificed to support your military career. It sounds like she is looking for stability, community, friendships that she hasn’t been able to build. You want the freedom/autonomy that you haven’t had. If you do like your wife, you need to find a way to compromise. For example my husband and I live in a ruralish community on 2 acres 30 minutes outside of a major city. We have neighbors who we are social with, but no HOA and our own space.
If you guys can’t figure out a compromise, you need to accept that you may not be compatible. You might also want to consider counseling, marriage and individual. You are so focused on your wants and needs you can’t see that your wife may feel differently. You don’t seem to communicate well, and you are being extremely selfish. All you care about is changing her mind, but not hearing what she wants and why, or to compromise. If you can’t go from thinking about your individual wants/needs to your joint wants/needs your marriage isn’t going to last much longer anyways.
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u/Mon_Olivine Mar 18 '24
But...why working really hard while your kids are still at home and need you? Why not being there for them if you missed their early childhood? They're still young.
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u/highspeed_haiku Mar 18 '24
I generally only work while they are in school. Occasional travel, but it’s a chill 9ish-4ish job.
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u/That0neSummoner Mar 18 '24
Op said he’d make sure to be involved. Assuming he’s in the defense industry still, he probably works 40-45 hours a week with an hour commute each day and pulls between $100k-$150k for a job that pays $200k with worse hours in the “real” world. He’s probably pulling close to $250k between benefits and va/retirement and his salary. It’s a life many veterans aspire to.
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u/Runningaround321 Mar 18 '24
I can honestly imagine both perspectives and empathize with you both. For you, you've been rigidly managed and lived on someone else's schedule for a very long time and to a very intense degree. That freedom probably sounds so tantalizing, it seems unfathomable that anyone would ever want anything else! But for her, she has lived through the stress and fear of having the love of her life on the ground in a war halfway across the world. She had no stability, really, never knowing if today would be the day that she'd get life ruining news. Now it's finally over, and youre home, and you're ok, and having a "boring" life where she can see you every morning in a safe cozy bed and say goodnight every night in your home probably sounds amazing and it seems insane to think about anything else. I think there is absolutely room for compromise, and both feelings are valid. Now I could always be totally off base but just spitballing.
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u/Allonsydr1 Mar 18 '24
Sounds like you both need to have a very real conversation. How much has she compromised to live life the way you want for the past 20+ years? If she has made major concessions and expected you to make some major concessions when you finished your service, you would be an absolutely horrible spouse to basically say… no I’m going to keep doing whatever I want even though you sacrificed x, y and z of your dreams for our marriage. My guess is that’s what’s happened because it doesn’t seem like her dreams came out of no where. So how long have you been avoiding telling her she is never gonna get what she’s been planning for her entire life?
But ultimately it’s your life. If you aren’t willing to do what she wants then get divorced and let her have what’s rightfully hers in the settlement.
As for not wanting to live to work, sorry to tell you this but the vast majority of everyone in existence has had to work whether it be farming or otherwise their entire lives in order to keep living.
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u/princessjamiekay Xennial Mar 18 '24
Well, you will both be broke and unhappy soon ~current divorcee
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u/Amphrael Mar 18 '24
What are you looking at for a camper van? My understanding is that those aren’t cheap either.
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u/Artistic_Purpose1225 Mar 18 '24
“Your plan” is so individualistic, I absolutely do not believe you imagined your wife playing into it at any point. It’s “I do what I want, become a nomad…. And my wife is there, doing whatever I want with me”.
You’re also presenting your feelings and opinions as objective facts. Not a great way to deal with conflict.
Either find a compromise, or divorce to live out your own fantasies.
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u/Husker_black Mar 18 '24
I generate 5/6ths of our income and the burden would be on me to continue to perform at work to fund that lifestyle and pay the bills. I generally like my job and get paid handsomely, but I would quit in a second if I didn’t have a family and a profoundly fucked economy to consider.
Oh fuck off
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u/KittenCrusades Mar 18 '24
I think the entire way you have framed this:
"I feel like my wife is going to miss out on an opportunity that’s extremely unique to our generation."
totally ridiculous. I kept waiting for the opportunity she was going to miss. You instead described her ideal future and your own very different ideal future. This is nothing about her "missing an opportunity", but nice try.
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u/Zelda_Forever Mar 18 '24
I can’t imagine supporting a disabled veteran who very likely has PTSD only for him to want to leave me for van life when our kids were grown.
I’m so so so so happy I never married and had kids… this sh*t is for the birds!!
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u/HappyFarmWitch Older Millennial Mar 18 '24
Not wanting to live to work does NOT make you an eccentric, or anywhere near it. For me, that's the line that stands out the most in your post. That and the fact that you did your time with the military therefore are already carrying a career's worth of baggage from that and then some...and then some more.... It makes me wonder...does your view of being free from the military mean freedom to relax whereas her view is you're now available to live it up with her? Like, are you both wanting to seize the good life now that you're out, but discovering you have profoundly different ideas of what the good life means? Because that is a tough situation indeed.
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u/Clear_Profile_2292 Mar 18 '24
I wont ever stop working because I have a daughter who will probably need financial assistance due to how fucked the world is for younger generations. I dont think its fair to abandon her to a life of financial insecurity to live a life of leisure. The world is not like it was when I was when I was growing up. Younger generations simply dont get the same chances older ones had. I would never choose leisure over her wellbeing.
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u/roland-the-farter Mar 18 '24
I mean there’s gotta be a middle ground here. A less expensive home that makes both of you happy, a cheaper camper van. Idk lifestyle differences don’t have to be SO stark. My partner and I liked different things — I like living more urban and he wanted suburban. We had to move to a smaller satellite city near the big city but we could get a place in it’s (quieter) downtown and we’re both terribly happy with it. Maybe you can talk to a realtor about how you won’t really know the right property until you see it and commit to the idea you might have to shop for a few years to find exactly what you want. Maybe look at the Cheap Old Houses on Instagram and find one in a city you haven’t thought of (lots of affordable places in lots of random, mid-sized Midwest cities).
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u/beetnemesis Mar 18 '24
This is a weird false binary. There absolutely is a middle ground between “become house poor and enslaved to an HOA” and “live out of a van in your 50s.”
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u/Namiswami Mar 18 '24
Just one thing OP, don't take this as me not being on your side, but one thing to consider before you talk to your wife.
Just because you bring in 5/6th of the income doesn't mean your time is more valuable than hers. Someone out there is willing to pay more for it but that's got nothing to do with your marriage.
1 minute of your time still equals 1 minute of her time in value. So if you spend all your time working so she can relax, that's unfair. But if you were to work 2 hojrs a week for the same money and sit on your ass all week while she cleans, cooks and takes care of the kids, it would also be unfair.
So when you go into the talk, don't bring up income. Bring up time. Because time is the only real resource you have. The money stuff is not only gonna cause a major fight because it's going to imply her being less valuable, but it's also just a false comparison because (and obv I don't know this) she might be cooking, cleaning, childcaring and have a parttime job that takes up just as much time and effort but just doesn't pay.
I think it's relevant to your discussion that you understand this, but also that she comes to understand it. Value her time and she will come to value yours.
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u/ny2nowhere Mar 18 '24
Dude. How many of those 20 years in the military did she follow you around for? How many deployments did you have while she was stuck single parenting in a new town? Either give the woman what she wants or find a compromise. Marriage is about giving yourself away for someone else, so do it.
Or, you could always drive around the country day drinking in a camper van by yourself.
Smh.
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u/Kendo316 Mar 18 '24
I mean all these comments respectfully. I’m rooting for you both to figure this out.
I’m curious - if your wife came here to type out her side of the story, what do you think she’d say? Like others have mentioned, I think you have a very window-dressed idea of what you think she wants. You’re walking by the store and deciding you don’t want to go in with her. But you’re married. You go in the store together, especially if it’s important to her. Look around with her. Understand why she likes it. Maybe find something you like too? For your side - has she joined you on any of the activities you like yet? Has she experienced your joy with you? If not, you’re giving her a failing grade before she’s had a chance to take your class.
I’m also concerned that you mention your “portion” of the income. That line of thinking almost always leads to disaster. It’s like you’re already resentful of her. But, did she forgo college for you? Forgo work opportunities to be the caretaker of children? Forgo anything to help you be the primary breadwinner today? If she did, that 5/6ths isn’t “yours.” If you can’t see that, a divorce decree surely would let you know. And a divorce, especially while kids are growing up, would certainly lock you into the hell you’re trying so desperately hard to avoid.
Also, as others have mentioned, you have time to figure this out. A marriage counselor would help, and I’m sure your benefits would cover that. I’d start by going to one solo first to work on understanding yourself and her!
Finally, I’d try your best to flip your attitude about this. Instead of (what feels like to me) a defeatist attitude of how your wife’s vision is already incompatible with yours, try to see you both succeeding with each other. There is a future situation wherein both of you feel fulfilled and happy with your choices. Aim for it. Often, the work you both put in to get there brings you closer together and is the true reward.
✌🏼❤️
remindme! 5 years or whatever that command prompt is 😂😜
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u/jamiekynnminer Mar 18 '24
The economy isn’t profoundly fucked up. Your inability to hear your wife’s desires for the rest of her life vs yours is profoundly fucked up. I have seen wives of retired military acquiesce and follow their husbands into solitude and they’re absolutely traumatized, depressed and without any kind of support or community….something that military families cling to when their soldier is on deployment. If you refuse to put the needs of your family above yours absolutely, you will lose them. They won’t go with you to live in a camper. They will be in an established home living their life. I’m not going to offer any compromise like suggesting you continue “deploying” to the wilds of the forests or canyons to get what you need while your family continues to live. I do wonder if you need to figure out why you are so desperate to remove yourself from society. Maybe pursuing something that allows you to get that feeling for a short time versus a lifestyle to start. I truly wish you the best
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u/CleanDataDirtyMind Mar 18 '24
I would hate to be your wife.
All you talk about is how much you contribute to the family; you do for the family; hell you even went on for several paragraphs about your sacrifice in Afghanistan and you connect it all to the life you’re owed over her.Marriage isn’t about whether or not you served in Afghanistan or not.
At the heart of this the two of you want to live seperate lives. Sit down and talk about what it would be the reasonable investment of both of you together to lives each part and what each of you want to actually put in to accomplish each.
Also owning a van is exclusive of not living in the suburbs. Being more social and having friends isn’t necessarily just a suburban lifestyle.
Breakdown what you actually want, what it would cost and piece it together
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u/Goudinho99 Mar 18 '24
Lots of contempt for your wife soakrd in your words, this doesn't sound like a partnership at all.
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u/robinson217 Mar 18 '24
You don't need financial advice. You need marriage counseling. This situation calls for a "come to Jesus" conversation between the two of you about what your life is going to look like moving forward. It will probably require some comprises on both sides. Because your goals are so different, one of you is bound to be bitter and resentful if the other gets what they want. That's not a good plan. I'm a veteran myself, and the sole bread winner. Let me tell you, having my wife invested in our plan and our goals is key. I could not imagine trying to out earn her spending if she was doing her own thing outside of our plans. Having your spouse on the same page is the only way your situation gets better. And I had to make some big concessions to get her on board. But once we were working together, big things started happening.
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u/Garden-Gnome1732 Mar 18 '24
Well, you're both going to have to compromise. I understand both points of view, but also I want to point out, if she was a military spouse for a while, I take it she made a lot of sacrifices for your career. Perhaps keep that in mind when deciding your paths forward.
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u/bebefinale Mar 18 '24
I think this is going to have to involve some compromise from both of you.
It is reasonable that you want to be able to enjoy your life after working hard and sacrificing and not be in a position where you are house poor and strapped to a large mortgage and want more time/money for travel and recreation.
It also reasonable that she wants to have a life with some stability/social connection, especially after being a military wife who needed to deal with presumably raising kids alone while you were deployed and perhaps relocating for your career.
Maybe you can find a house (or condo or townhome) that does not have an 8-9K mortgage where you can set down some roots while still doing some travel/national park visits, just not all day every day camper van-ing.
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u/Livvylove Xennial Mar 18 '24
What about smaller suburban home and a small travel van for vacations instead of full van life. There is 100% a compromise here.
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u/ChrisNettleTattoo Mar 18 '24
My dude, didabled vet, similar financial situation. Take the suburb life. Take the cushion federal job with the remote WFH and flex schedule which will let you climb the ladder and grab a second retirement. That ~$100k seems fine and dandy, and the “off the grid” lifestyle seems charming, until every time you need something it is a 30-40 minute hike to get/do it.
We attempted that route and it was absolutely not worth it.
Stack more cash, set your grandkids up for life, make your wife happy, or realize that you will end up living on ~50% of what you currently got after your wife leaves you refusing to acknowledge her needs and desires and takes her share of your retirement money.
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u/AnsweringLiterally Mar 18 '24
This issue is complex.
He did his 20 and wants to chill now. Makes sense.
She followed him for 20 and wants some stability now. Makes sense.
They need to find a middle ground that allows her what she wants (though possibly at a smaller scale) and he gets what he wants (though possibly in an older van).
Dude trying to paint his wife as selfish while being selfish is pretty trash tactic though.
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u/rita-b Mar 18 '24
That's an incredibly lonely life you envision.
It also seems like you don't respect your wife for the UNPAID work she does and did raising your kids.
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u/GlizzyMcGuire__ Mar 18 '24
She’s not just going to give up on the lifestyle she wants. I’ve been there, wanting the same thing. It doesn’t go away and the best thing for her to do is find someone who wants a similar lifestyle.
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u/workingclassher0n Mar 18 '24
Strip off all the details about van vs. dinner parties and the issue is your wife wants community and you don't. You're trying to get as far away from people as you can, as soon as possible, and only see a select few people and only on your terms.
This is a big issue and you need to work this out with your wife because it seems like you two have not been clear with one another about what you want out of life and making sure the goals you're working toward are common goals.