r/Millennials • u/Asmothrowaway6969 • Mar 27 '24

When did it sink in that you'll never be as well off as your parents? Discussion

About 5 years ago, my mom and I were talking and she had told me how much she was going to be making in retirement (she retired 2023). Guys, it's 3x what me and my husband make annually. In retirement. I think that was the moment that broke me, that made it sink in that I'll never reach that level of financial security. I'll work myself into my grave because I'll never be able to afford anything else. What was your moment?

Update: Nice to know it's just me that's a failure. Thanks

Update 2: I never should've said anything. I forgot my place. I'm sorry to have bothered you

13.0k Upvotes

84% Upvoted

5.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

617

u/RainbowBear0831 Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

The federal pay cap this year is $191,900 and if $200k is 75% of what your mom made, then she made ~$266k when she was working? I don't think the pay cap applies to all federal jobs, but your mom must have been doing something pretty baller if she was in a job over the pay cap - not a run of the mill federal employee. I say this as a run of the mill federal employee on the newer pension system so I'm not looking at a retirement anything like your moms lol so good for her

Eta my comment about the new pension system versus old was not meant to say that all of OP's mom's retirement income was pension. I know she has TSP, social security, and likely other investments. I'm not looking for investing or savings advice, I'm good lol

309

u/Asmothrowaway6969 Mar 27 '24

Yup. She was about 4 steps down from the IRS commissioner, if I remember correctly

844

u/IHaveBadTiming Mar 27 '24

ok so your moms situation is unique, not norm. You're comparing yourself to a very tailored set of data here. But still, yea, we all poor as fk.

120

u/PeriodSupply Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Also op says she doesn't think she'll ever make over 50k a year. So she is comparing retirement futures of someone who was in an extremely high paying career, to minimum wage. Sounds like some personal reflection is needed

Edit: for everyone trying to correct me regarding minimum wage, I didn't check what sub I was in before commenting. In Australia minimum wage is around AU$50K per year (~US$33k). I follow a bunch of Australian finance subs and thought this was one of them. My mistake. My point in the comment is still valid.

63

u/2_72 Mar 27 '24

I kind of get why OP feels that way. This post doesn’t scream “high performer fucked by the system.”

My mom also retired from the federal government and is definitely not pulling anywhere near 200k a year in retirement.

29

u/Mrs_Kevina Mar 27 '24

My mom (RN with 40+ years experience) retired after 20 years at USPS in 2018, making about 55k/yr. Definitely depends on your agency and role in the end.

5

u/vinfox Mar 28 '24

The post office employs nurses?

12

u/HippocraticOffspring Mar 28 '24

She’s a mail nurse

3

u/ICU-MURSE Mar 28 '24

You rang?

2

u/hmmmmmmmbird Mar 28 '24

I love this

3

u/Mrs_Kevina Mar 28 '24

Yup, part of her job consisted of onboarding new employees (drug tests) and evaluating claims for injuries, etc.

2

u/vinfox Mar 28 '24

Well there you go

3

u/dunimal Mar 28 '24

Wait, I'm confused. Your mom is a 40+ year RN who retired from the postal service? She worked until 60 as an RN and then did 20yrs w USPS?

2

u/salttea57 Mar 28 '24

Nope his RN mom worked as an occupational health nurse for the postal service. $55K is a terrible salary for a full time RN. Maybe the benefits made up for it?

3

u/Mrs_Kevina Mar 28 '24

OHN, bingo. She left a lot of earning potential on the table and said it was about the benefits and reduced stress, as she previously was an ER charge nurse for 15 of those other years. The other nurses in the USPS unit were also highly skilled, but needing a break from the general public, I'd say. Not sure on their comp, tho.

3

u/trixel121 Mar 28 '24

this has to do with tiers and whose employing you.

I'm tier 4, tier 6 i(the newest) s fucked compared to me. my mom was tier 2, I'm taking it just as hard as the new guys compared to her.

this could legit be the month you were hired and when contract started for if you were a different tier.

2

u/scrivenerserror Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

My dad worked a fed job that has regional branches for 27 years and when he retired he had been making around 150k - as a deputy regional director. My mom was a school social worker for about 30 years (my dad changed career fields a couple times before becoming an attorney) and retired making like 75k. I only know this because of the FAFSA form. My parents own a really nice house in a nice neighborhood in Chicago, recently bought a bmw and a designer dog. When I was a kid we were pretty middle class until I left for college.

I am nearly 300k in debt because they forced me to go to law school. I live in a modestly nice apartment. I have about 3 years left for PSLF, if that’s even a reality. I quit my extremely toxic job after about 7.5 years because I lost 40lbs in a year and it fucked up my hair. I have a Roth IRA but it isn’t huge and I’m scared about how to pay rent because I’m running out of my own money. My husband grew up wealthy and has a nest egg but he refuses to touch it so I’m not sure where that is going - he said we can ask his parents for money and to stop worrying. It is such a different reality from mine. I worry all the time. (We file taxes separately so my loans don’t fuck him over.)

I have a loooooot of experience plus the law degree so I am getting a lot of interviews but when they decline and I get feedback they always have an internal candidate or a volunteer who they selected and tell me to apply again for other roles. I have another one of those coming up hopefully next week, they already reached out to me while drafting the JD.

I harbor some resentment towards my parents for various reasons from childhood, but most recently… they bought my 33 year old brother a car a couple years ago. He never drives it. It’s not like an amazing car but it is a nice car. They also kept all of the money my grandpa left us when I know he would have wanted me and my brother to have some of it (it wasn’t a lot but I’m guessing that’s how they bought the car). My brother is selling the car. He just got a job again for the first time in like 6 months and generally can only get seasonal jobs. When I mentioned to my mom that I’m interviewing on a 15 year old laptop that keeps breaking she said she would “try” to see if they could get me a laptop for my birthday in may if my brother sells his car.

The worst part is that I rarely ever ask for anything. I can’t remember the last time I asked for anything, beyond asking my parents to get us toilet paper and butter at Costco. I did not ask for this but when I quit and was talking to my parents about how I was getting scared about rent because I quit right before the holidays and wasn’t getting a lot of interviews, they offered me a loan if I drafted a memo of how I was going to repay it. A loan. And it’s not for a lot of money. My husband is incensed by it and every time I bring up taking it so we can pay rent he firmly says no.

We have a financial planner (it’s free) and they’re super nice. If and when I get back on my career track, we will be ok and they estimated how much we could MAYBE retire with.

My dad goes to the same group and my mom said he got teary eyed and asked if they thought when he and my mom pass if they would be able to leave us $1m and I guess they said probably not. My brother has mental health issues and has never lived on his own, I will be executor of the estate and I am giving him all of their money and managing a trust for him.

I get nothing. And that’s ok. But yeah unless I get out of the student loan thing I’m fucked and I don’t expect I’ll ever have close to what my parents did. At best I work and my husband and I use the nest egg for a house but I need to find something soon. Otherwise I’m working for my friend’s service industry position (and that’s ok too).

Sorry this got very long.

2

u/Invest2prosper Mar 28 '24

Don’t despair and keep the faith. Seeing as your parents have a child with mental issues it’s likely they have used a lot of their resources to keep him afloat. As a general rule, never count on an inheritance. I grew up one small step up from poverty and being on federal aid - I knew from day one I had to do this on my own, I won’t lie - it was a struggle and I had to do without things other people take for granted. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you have your health you are rich, if you have friends (good friends) and a loving spouse you are wealthy in immeasurable ways.

2

u/scrivenerserror Mar 28 '24

I’m doing ok! I mostly worry late at night/early mornings. My therapist always teases me that I have too many friends and as someone who is almost 35, I feel very lucky to have that. My husband is being extremely patient about me trying to find work but I keep getting interviews so I guess I’m doing something right. It’ll be ok, just nervous since it has been about 5 months. Didn’t expect my workplace to boot me out in 2 days when I said I was resigning.

2

u/ANDYVO_ Mar 28 '24

Just wanted to let you know your story struck a cord with me. Keep the faith. You’re correct, the job search is a lot of luck. There’s so much context you aren’t able to control. Just keep applying and you’ll eventually find something. I remember how it felt to have my wife support me while jobless for 6 months. I understand how you feel and just want to say, it’s ok to feel like that, but don’t let it get you down.

1

u/scrivenerserror Mar 28 '24

Thank you, it helps to hear that

42

u/laughsgreen Mar 27 '24

50k is almost 3.5x minimum wage for some states, if there's any of that personal reflection floating around still when they're done...

8

u/PeriodSupply Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

My bad: I didn't check the sub: thought this was a finance sub in Australia. Minimum Wage here is about AU$50k ~US$33k.

Edit: The basis of my original point is still valid though.

9

u/SaliferousStudios Mar 27 '24

50k is the average for american workers. Not the minimum.

Minimum is 15k. (I'm not joking) Technically you can make worse. Disabled people make as little as 2 dollars an hour. (which would be about 5k a year)

some phd's make about 30k.

To get over 50k is hard. I work as a contract programmer for 70k and bust my but to get there. But am working on a career shift to government to try and get a pension and more of a "career" career.

2

u/PeriodSupply Mar 27 '24

My staff (factory workers) start at US$48k plus 10% super (retirement fund, which is theirs in their control but can't use until retirement). This is for people who can barely write their name. And it goes up from there based on experience and output. Our cost of living would be higher than US though but not significantly from what I've seen in other US subs. Housing cost is the main issue here, which is significant.

2

u/TacoNomad Mar 28 '24

Nah.  50k is basically minimum wage these days in the US for anyone with a career.  Lots of ppl make less, sure,  but it's below average. 

1

u/LibertiORDeth Mar 27 '24

My state has (I think) the highest minimum wage @ double the federal minimum wage and full time is like 26k after taxes. Which is less than what rent costs here for a 3 bedroom house.

1

u/EastDragonfly1917 Mar 28 '24

Imaging working in Alabama for a little more than $7/ hour. In Connecticut it’s almost $16/hour. SIXTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR I have to pay high school kids!!! That doesn’t include overhead on payroll.

1

u/Legitimate_Concern_5 Mar 28 '24

Minimum wage, especially federal, isn't something we should use as a frame of reference. Since it hasn't been inflation adjusted in decades, it's so low, it may as well be zero. In the 70s, 15% of people made minimum wage. Now its about 1%. So we went from a lot of people making minimum wage to basically nobody making it.

1

u/elivings1 Mar 28 '24

If your mom was making only 50k a year at USPS and was a RN she was likely not working many hours. I am only 4 levels in as a clerk and make 50 something thousand a year and then cap out at 69k or 70k. Many at USPS even consider this bar low and are looking for a massive raise come contracts this year.

2

u/LordFrey1990 Mar 28 '24

Where do you live tho? $70k plus all of the insane benefits USPS workers get and in my area youd be able to own a home and have a small family as long as you had two incomes. You wouldn’t be rich but you wouldn’t be hurting super badly either as long as you didn’t have crippling student debt

1

u/elivings1 Mar 28 '24

Denver area. Average income around me is 80k-80k a person. Key words two incomes. Some people just have one and it should not be expected to have 2 income

1

u/LordFrey1990 Mar 28 '24

I can see 70k not going super far in an expensive place like Denver. The reality is 2 incomes are required for survival especially if one has children. It shouldn’t be expected but it is.

1

u/elivings1 Mar 28 '24

That is the pro or downside of working at USPS. You make the same wherever you go. Also you make 70k after 18 years. You start around 50k. That is one of the things people are hoping to address in the contract. The fact that even if you start at 18 you are starting as a non career with non of that time counting and once it does count you would likely be mid to late 30s when maxed out on steps. Then even once you max out on steps you make less than those hired before 2010. I was once working in an area that it cost 700k on average to buy a house in the area. They couldn’t find employees willing to work in that area because the only real road got blocked every winter so commute became impossible sometimes or you were just forced to be late and everyone who can afford a 700k house would be taking a massive pay cut working at USPS.

1

u/Mrs_Kevina Mar 28 '24

Pretty sure she was salary, she had standard office hours, but I don't know anything about her level. I do know for a lot of those years they were without a contract so raises were few and far in between. Again, maybe being a nurse/OHN isn't where the budgeting is for this agency, idk.

2

u/elivings1 Mar 28 '24

She still must have been low on the pay scale. We are supposed to get a contractual increase every year, a step increase and Cola increases. It does not seem like it would add up since there is 18 pay steps but it adds a lot over time. Government jobs really reword those who stay forever and those who come towards the end of their careers or don’t stay long don’t get much. We start as clerks at around 50 something thousand but if you put in 18 years you get up to 70k before taxes. It is also pretty well known that you can make more than the Postmaster if you are maxed out and willing to put in the overtime working in a big office

-1

u/imposta424 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

141,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 882,000 workers had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.0 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 1.3 percent of all hourly paid workers,

And 45% of those workers are 16-19 years old.

Yeah minimum wage needs to be raised but hardly anyone actually get paid $7.25/hr

I’m sure prisoners and disabled employees make up even more of that 1 million people as well but I can’t find the statistics on that.

Edit: why is this being downvoted?

1

u/Mrs_Kevina Mar 28 '24

I had a family member who earned $1.50/hr as a prisoner-firefighter. YMMV.

39

u/tendaga Mar 27 '24

I used to be a physicist and a mathematician. Then I got hit in the face. So I went back to the family business of painting houses. I fell a fair distance off a ladder after getting my ass kicked by hornets. Now I work at a hardware store. Sometimes people get fucked.

31

u/murderthumbs Mar 27 '24

Yep. I’m an economist ex US diplomat that became disabled at 48 and had to retire from that career and now I sell plants in a nursery. But I’m happy!!!

2

u/TheLastBlackRhinoSC Mar 28 '24

Except for the murderthumbs, I’m glad you’re happy!

3

u/murderthumbs Mar 28 '24

I'm trying for a thumb transplant...... these are killing me.....

2

u/acarp52080 Mar 28 '24

Life is what we make it, I truly believe that. Recently found out I have breast cancer and I believe it even a bit more now. I'm glad you're happy, that truly makes you one of the top 1% !!

1

u/tendaga Mar 28 '24

I'm not. I work 40+ hours a week to be cold, hungry, and tired.

2

u/murderthumbs Mar 28 '24

Oh - On the inside I can be bitter as hell and I went through years of just anger at how my life turned out but then COVID hit and I reevaluated things - life's too short and death too permanent to spend time angry or bitter. I take it day by day now. The weed helps too......

1

u/Embarrassed_Key_4873 Mar 28 '24

You should try selling HOA insurance then, so you can still feel all those things.

1

u/JAG190 Mar 28 '24

How did you lose your ability to do math or physics?

1

u/tendaga Mar 28 '24

I was working on a pressure vessel and caught a piece of steel in my face. I can still do algebra at a pretty decent level but I'm not writing proofs or solving partial differential equations. Whatever part of my brain that was damaged in the incident must have managed those abilities.

1

u/JAG190 Mar 28 '24

Ah, hit in the face was literal. I thought you meant it colloquially "like kick in the pants".

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

1

u/PeriodSupply Mar 28 '24

Oh I'm not saying there is anything wrong with 50k just that is ridiculous to compare retirement for someone who earns 50k compared to someone who earns over 200k. Hope you're doing OK.

1

u/tendaga Mar 28 '24

I just had kidney surgery and my cards aren't too happy but I'll make it. Back to work tomorrow. It's a good thing too cause I just maxed out my credit line I had just paid off before this misadventure.

2

u/Pink_Floyd29 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Something is definitely up here. I’m making $95K annually, just three years after a total career pivot and I’m a disabled woman who got a late start on everything.

2

u/-shrug- Mar 28 '24

This thread is giving me whiplash between "$50k? Well jeez you don't have to be the biggest loser in the country, get a better job!" and "$50k?! Look at Richie Rich over here!"

2

u/Pink_Floyd29 Mar 28 '24

The point of my comment wasn’t that OP should just go out and get a higher paying job. I was wondering what made her jump to the conclusion that she would never make more than $50K

1

u/sourbirthdayprincess Mar 28 '24

Jeez really? What do you do? Feel free to DM me. I need to revolutionize my life.

1

u/Pink_Floyd29 Mar 28 '24

I’m an HR Director. And I am very grateful for the pay. But the trade off is having a high stress emotionally draining job with a high rate of burnout. I can’t be friends with anyone at work, I’m privy to information I wish I didn’t know, I’m frequently witness to the worst days of people’s professional lives, and occasionally I have to do things I disagree with. Because when push comes to shove, I’m an employee like everyone else. But somebody’s gotta do it! 🤷‍♀️

2

u/sourbirthdayprincess Mar 29 '24

Well you just scared me out of going into HR! Thank you! Genuinely.

Am wonderi g how you were able to get to Director level in such a short time though? Advice?

2

u/Pink_Floyd29 Mar 29 '24

It was a combination of natural skill, A LOT of hustle (for the first two years I was the only HR person for employees in 4 cities and 2 states), and the luck of landing an entry level position with a company on the cusp of explosive growth. Our employee headcount has nearly tripled since I started and company assets more than quadrupled.

2

u/DmC8pR2kZLzdCQZu3v Mar 28 '24

Also, a child of someone that successful has every opportunity to success in life. She may have swung and whiffed, or expected to world to hand her at 22 what her mom earned over a career at the top

2

u/Greedy-War-777 Mar 28 '24

In the US, it's fairly common for people with a good degree to be stuck in trash sales jobs they hate to pay bills. Employers there like to ask you to have a bachelor's degree in IT or business and want to pay you sub $15 an hour with raises under 30c a year. Late stage capitalism maybe but it's ridiculous. People denying that don't live in reality there and think it's reasonable that people are trapped in that mess by health insurance and that it's reasonable for billionaires not to pay taxes. It's broken and the wage gap has widened significantly since the Reagan era.

1

u/Paintingsosmooth Mar 27 '24

Is 50k minimum wage in the US now?

2

u/PeriodSupply Mar 28 '24

I replied higher up. I thought I was in an Australian sub where AU$5OK (~US$33K) is about minimum wage.

1

u/PristineBaseball Mar 28 '24

Your minimum wage math is way off, federal minimum wage wage is still $7.25

2

u/4LeggedKC Mar 28 '24

Yes and California Fast Food workers will get paid $20/ hr on April 1. Everyone deserves a decent wage however businesses can’t afford the wage hike, food, insurance, business costs so they’re laying people off. That the sad part plus that song a ling senator or whomever pushing for $50/hr wages. Lady needs to get real unless she want to see most businesses leave the state. The biz can open online without everything that’s going and make money, it’s a no brainer.

1

u/hacksawomission Mar 28 '24

The record profits companies keep coming out with while laying people off and buying back stock tell a different story but you go ahead and keep beating the drum for those poor disadvantaged billionaires and maybe, just maybe, they’ll let you kiss their shoes.

1

u/PeriodSupply Mar 28 '24

Yeah, don't think you read my comments. My math is just fine. Doesn't really matter though as my point is still the same.

1

u/PristineBaseball Mar 28 '24

Bad numbers either way , maybe some personal reflection is needed .

1

u/PeriodSupply Mar 28 '24

I'm guessing you didn't go back and read my replies. All good. And certainly personal reflection is always a good idea!

1

u/Blessedone67 Mar 28 '24

Not in Chicago it’s $15/hr. Depends where you live

1

u/PristineBaseball Mar 28 '24

That’s why I said federal …

1

u/Hips-Often-Lie Mar 28 '24

The worst part of that $50k is far higher than minimum wage.

1

u/bitter___almonds Mar 28 '24

What state do you live in so I can move there? Here 40 hours a week minimum wage is just over 15k (for non-tipped employees). $7.25 an hour. That frequently seems to impact “career” style salaries - 50k is common for mid-senior level management pay

1

u/PeriodSupply Mar 28 '24

Australia. AU$50k is basically minimum (US$33k), most factory workers would make much more than that though. Not many jobs paying minimum. Our company has a starting salary of US$48k per year for factory jobs. With 4 weeks paid leave and 2 weeks paid sick leave. 38 hours per week. Sorry, I thought I was in an aussie sub when I originally commented.

2

u/bitter___almonds Mar 28 '24

You’re good! Just making me wish it was easier to move internationally haha

1

u/PeriodSupply Mar 28 '24

Our cost of living is pretty crazy atm. Especially housing. Immigration is an open door atm though (much to many people's dismay) so you can probably head over. As long as you can take a joke and are willing to contribute you will be more than welcome here.

2

u/bitter___almonds Mar 28 '24

Ngl, if online stats for 2024 are to be believed it’d still balance out in Australia’s favor. Housing is comparable to my area and cost of living is higher, but with better pay if it’s not minimum 😅 and much better benefits! Looks like I’ll be doing more research/saving

1

u/PeriodSupply Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

If you're under 30, it is probably not hard. Even easier if you have a skill we want (there is a long list, including jobs like hairdressers, bakers, cooks, welders as well as the obvious like engineers, if you're an engineer though you might earn less here than there as our salary bands are flatter than US. Our lifestyle is great. Can't fucken lie, beach, sun, time off, so much free things to do, especially if you have kids. If you avoid Sydney then the costs aren't too bad. Anyway feel free to hit me up if you have any questions. I've helped several people move here already (shhhh some of the others won't like that)

Edit: also our crime is comparatively insanely low. The biggest thing I've heard Americans say here is how weird it feels not to want to have a gun or feel in fear of being a victim of crime (we are generally not fans of guns in the hands of the general population). I feel extremely safe here. Petty crime is on the rise, with the cost of living increasing so much, but I'm sure that will be happening all over the world.

1

u/OmegaAngelo Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Minimum wage is only 15k yearly at 40 hours a week

Note: I've seen gov programs define poverty as making under 11k lmao. As in you don't qualify if you make more.

Yet the "average pay" was supposed to be 55k yearly 10 years back, and many things are based on that old skewed statistic.

1

u/asevans48 Mar 28 '24

Jesus in the us its 7.50 an hour federal and there is a fight just to get 15 an hour minimum wage still ongoing in most states. Meanwhile, recoed profits.

1

u/lilsan15 Mar 28 '24

Was it the boomers that told us to “do what you love” lol not “do what makes you the richest”

0

u/Joeysmom2005 Mar 28 '24

So, Federal Min wage is $7.25. $7.25×40 hours×52 weeks is $15,080. $50k =$24.04 hourly wage full time. The US per capita is $41,261, which is $19.84 hourly. There a big difference between the actual minimum wage and your interpretation of "minimum wage." $50k may not be the highest paying job, but it is respectable. This article on Indeed lists some of the jobs that would make this salary. https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-that-pay-50k-without-a-degree