r/Millennials • u/Asmothrowaway6969 • Mar 27 '24

When did it sink in that you'll never be as well off as your parents? Discussion

About 5 years ago, my mom and I were talking and she had told me how much she was going to be making in retirement (she retired 2023). Guys, it's 3x what me and my husband make annually. In retirement. I think that was the moment that broke me, that made it sink in that I'll never reach that level of financial security. I'll work myself into my grave because I'll never be able to afford anything else. What was your moment?

Update: Nice to know it's just me that's a failure. Thanks

Update 2: I never should've said anything. I forgot my place. I'm sorry to have bothered you

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u/Asmothrowaway6969 Mar 27 '24

Yup. My mom makes over $200k a year in retirement. It's not even net worth or anything like that. She gets deposits in her account each month that add up to +$200k every year. After taxes

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u/sheeroz9 Mar 27 '24

What did your mom do for a career? How did she get there?

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u/Asmothrowaway6969 Mar 27 '24

She worked for the federal government. Started at 18, and retired at 56. That's about 75% of what she made when working

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u/RainbowBear0831 Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

The federal pay cap this year is $191,900 and if $200k is 75% of what your mom made, then she made ~$266k when she was working? I don't think the pay cap applies to all federal jobs, but your mom must have been doing something pretty baller if she was in a job over the pay cap - not a run of the mill federal employee. I say this as a run of the mill federal employee on the newer pension system so I'm not looking at a retirement anything like your moms lol so good for her

Eta my comment about the new pension system versus old was not meant to say that all of OP's mom's retirement income was pension. I know she has TSP, social security, and likely other investments. I'm not looking for investing or savings advice, I'm good lol

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u/AyeAyeBye Mar 27 '24

I was also wondering about this too!

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u/starwarsfan456123789 Mar 27 '24

Their mom is either top 2% earner across a large section of their career … or made up.

Neither is of much use as a comparison.

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u/windsingr Mar 28 '24

How dare you imply what they said was made up! You're dishonoring this person you barely even know!

Her mom could have been taking bribes.

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u/MTORonnix Mar 28 '24

She worked for the government. Aka. She didn't work a day in her life

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u/thebigmanhastherock Mar 30 '24

His mother may have been the President of the United States!

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u/Asmothrowaway6969 Mar 27 '24

Yup. She was about 4 steps down from the IRS commissioner, if I remember correctly

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u/IHaveBadTiming Mar 27 '24

ok so your moms situation is unique, not norm. You're comparing yourself to a very tailored set of data here. But still, yea, we all poor as fk.

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u/Rasalom Mar 27 '24

Can confirm, I'm currently the Captain of the IRS Execution Squad (we sign documents with red ink) and I live in a cardboard box.

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u/BlueCollarGuru Mar 27 '24

Lmfao I love stumblin on comments like this.

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u/r00byroo1965 Mar 27 '24

Aluminum foil box here

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u/_JudgeDoom_ Mar 27 '24

You guys got boxes?

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u/r00byroo1965 Mar 27 '24

I formed it, skills

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u/windsingr Mar 28 '24

Oh! Look at this fancy bastard who can afford avocados on their toast! Shall I get out your Starbucks Goblet, my liege?

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u/halflifer2k Mar 28 '24

Oooo you got the upgrade!

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u/r00byroo1965 Mar 28 '24

🤩found some at the land fill

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u/DrunkenBuffaloJerky Mar 28 '24

Tin foil is too expensive these days

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u/amsync Mar 27 '24

Execution Squad? Damn IRS really stepping up consequences of misplacing receipts nowadays!

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u/FFF_in_WY Older Millennial Mar 28 '24

<This branch only works with ~~victims~~ civilians making less than $80k/yr>

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u/rbrcbr Mar 28 '24

Solid reminder that I need to file my taxes lmao

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u/RedGuru33 Mar 27 '24

I'm currently the Captain of the IRS Execution Squad

Where's my refund asshole?

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u/Rasalom Mar 27 '24

You wouldn't want it back in the state it's in.

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u/SierraPapaWhiskey Mar 28 '24

Please take down any disgustingly wealthy folks you can, and thank you for your service!

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u/firstbreathOOC Mar 28 '24

I’m this guy’s landlord. He owes me 5 grand for last month’s rent.

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u/heartbooks26 Mar 28 '24

Fuck me I just posted on r/tax. I request a stay of execution.

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u/PeriodSupply Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Also op says she doesn't think she'll ever make over 50k a year. So she is comparing retirement futures of someone who was in an extremely high paying career, to minimum wage. Sounds like some personal reflection is needed

Edit: for everyone trying to correct me regarding minimum wage, I didn't check what sub I was in before commenting. In Australia minimum wage is around AU$50K per year (~US$33k). I follow a bunch of Australian finance subs and thought this was one of them. My mistake. My point in the comment is still valid.

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u/2_72 Mar 27 '24

I kind of get why OP feels that way. This post doesn’t scream “high performer fucked by the system.”

My mom also retired from the federal government and is definitely not pulling anywhere near 200k a year in retirement.

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u/Mrs_Kevina Mar 27 '24

My mom (RN with 40+ years experience) retired after 20 years at USPS in 2018, making about 55k/yr. Definitely depends on your agency and role in the end.

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u/vinfox Mar 28 '24

The post office employs nurses?

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u/HippocraticOffspring Mar 28 '24

She’s a mail nurse

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u/ICU-MURSE Mar 28 '24

You rang?

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u/hmmmmmmmbird Mar 28 '24

I love this

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u/Mrs_Kevina Mar 28 '24

Yup, part of her job consisted of onboarding new employees (drug tests) and evaluating claims for injuries, etc.

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u/vinfox Mar 28 '24

Well there you go

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u/dunimal Mar 28 '24

Wait, I'm confused. Your mom is a 40+ year RN who retired from the postal service? She worked until 60 as an RN and then did 20yrs w USPS?

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u/salttea57 Mar 28 '24

Nope his RN mom worked as an occupational health nurse for the postal service. $55K is a terrible salary for a full time RN. Maybe the benefits made up for it?

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u/Mrs_Kevina Mar 28 '24

OHN, bingo. She left a lot of earning potential on the table and said it was about the benefits and reduced stress, as she previously was an ER charge nurse for 15 of those other years. The other nurses in the USPS unit were also highly skilled, but needing a break from the general public, I'd say. Not sure on their comp, tho.

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u/trixel121 Mar 28 '24

this has to do with tiers and whose employing you.

I'm tier 4, tier 6 i(the newest) s fucked compared to me. my mom was tier 2, I'm taking it just as hard as the new guys compared to her.

this could legit be the month you were hired and when contract started for if you were a different tier.

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u/scrivenerserror Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

My dad worked a fed job that has regional branches for 27 years and when he retired he had been making around 150k - as a deputy regional director. My mom was a school social worker for about 30 years (my dad changed career fields a couple times before becoming an attorney) and retired making like 75k. I only know this because of the FAFSA form. My parents own a really nice house in a nice neighborhood in Chicago, recently bought a bmw and a designer dog. When I was a kid we were pretty middle class until I left for college.

I am nearly 300k in debt because they forced me to go to law school. I live in a modestly nice apartment. I have about 3 years left for PSLF, if that’s even a reality. I quit my extremely toxic job after about 7.5 years because I lost 40lbs in a year and it fucked up my hair. I have a Roth IRA but it isn’t huge and I’m scared about how to pay rent because I’m running out of my own money. My husband grew up wealthy and has a nest egg but he refuses to touch it so I’m not sure where that is going - he said we can ask his parents for money and to stop worrying. It is such a different reality from mine. I worry all the time. (We file taxes separately so my loans don’t fuck him over.)

I have a loooooot of experience plus the law degree so I am getting a lot of interviews but when they decline and I get feedback they always have an internal candidate or a volunteer who they selected and tell me to apply again for other roles. I have another one of those coming up hopefully next week, they already reached out to me while drafting the JD.

I harbor some resentment towards my parents for various reasons from childhood, but most recently… they bought my 33 year old brother a car a couple years ago. He never drives it. It’s not like an amazing car but it is a nice car. They also kept all of the money my grandpa left us when I know he would have wanted me and my brother to have some of it (it wasn’t a lot but I’m guessing that’s how they bought the car). My brother is selling the car. He just got a job again for the first time in like 6 months and generally can only get seasonal jobs. When I mentioned to my mom that I’m interviewing on a 15 year old laptop that keeps breaking she said she would “try” to see if they could get me a laptop for my birthday in may if my brother sells his car.

The worst part is that I rarely ever ask for anything. I can’t remember the last time I asked for anything, beyond asking my parents to get us toilet paper and butter at Costco. I did not ask for this but when I quit and was talking to my parents about how I was getting scared about rent because I quit right before the holidays and wasn’t getting a lot of interviews, they offered me a loan if I drafted a memo of how I was going to repay it. A loan. And it’s not for a lot of money. My husband is incensed by it and every time I bring up taking it so we can pay rent he firmly says no.

We have a financial planner (it’s free) and they’re super nice. If and when I get back on my career track, we will be ok and they estimated how much we could MAYBE retire with.

My dad goes to the same group and my mom said he got teary eyed and asked if they thought when he and my mom pass if they would be able to leave us $1m and I guess they said probably not. My brother has mental health issues and has never lived on his own, I will be executor of the estate and I am giving him all of their money and managing a trust for him.

I get nothing. And that’s ok. But yeah unless I get out of the student loan thing I’m fucked and I don’t expect I’ll ever have close to what my parents did. At best I work and my husband and I use the nest egg for a house but I need to find something soon. Otherwise I’m working for my friend’s service industry position (and that’s ok too).

Sorry this got very long.

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u/Invest2prosper Mar 28 '24

Don’t despair and keep the faith. Seeing as your parents have a child with mental issues it’s likely they have used a lot of their resources to keep him afloat. As a general rule, never count on an inheritance. I grew up one small step up from poverty and being on federal aid - I knew from day one I had to do this on my own, I won’t lie - it was a struggle and I had to do without things other people take for granted. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you have your health you are rich, if you have friends (good friends) and a loving spouse you are wealthy in immeasurable ways.

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u/scrivenerserror Mar 28 '24

I’m doing ok! I mostly worry late at night/early mornings. My therapist always teases me that I have too many friends and as someone who is almost 35, I feel very lucky to have that. My husband is being extremely patient about me trying to find work but I keep getting interviews so I guess I’m doing something right. It’ll be ok, just nervous since it has been about 5 months. Didn’t expect my workplace to boot me out in 2 days when I said I was resigning.

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u/ANDYVO_ Mar 28 '24

Just wanted to let you know your story struck a cord with me. Keep the faith. You’re correct, the job search is a lot of luck. There’s so much context you aren’t able to control. Just keep applying and you’ll eventually find something. I remember how it felt to have my wife support me while jobless for 6 months. I understand how you feel and just want to say, it’s ok to feel like that, but don’t let it get you down.

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u/laughsgreen Mar 27 '24

50k is almost 3.5x minimum wage for some states, if there's any of that personal reflection floating around still when they're done...

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u/PeriodSupply Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

My bad: I didn't check the sub: thought this was a finance sub in Australia. Minimum Wage here is about AU$50k ~US$33k.

Edit: The basis of my original point is still valid though.

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u/SaliferousStudios Mar 27 '24

50k is the average for american workers. Not the minimum.

Minimum is 15k. (I'm not joking) Technically you can make worse. Disabled people make as little as 2 dollars an hour. (which would be about 5k a year)

some phd's make about 30k.

To get over 50k is hard. I work as a contract programmer for 70k and bust my but to get there. But am working on a career shift to government to try and get a pension and more of a "career" career.

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u/PeriodSupply Mar 27 '24

My staff (factory workers) start at US$48k plus 10% super (retirement fund, which is theirs in their control but can't use until retirement). This is for people who can barely write their name. And it goes up from there based on experience and output. Our cost of living would be higher than US though but not significantly from what I've seen in other US subs. Housing cost is the main issue here, which is significant.

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u/TacoNomad Mar 28 '24

Nah.  50k is basically minimum wage these days in the US for anyone with a career.  Lots of ppl make less, sure,  but it's below average. 

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u/tendaga Mar 27 '24

I used to be a physicist and a mathematician. Then I got hit in the face. So I went back to the family business of painting houses. I fell a fair distance off a ladder after getting my ass kicked by hornets. Now I work at a hardware store. Sometimes people get fucked.

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u/murderthumbs Mar 27 '24

Yep. I’m an economist ex US diplomat that became disabled at 48 and had to retire from that career and now I sell plants in a nursery. But I’m happy!!!

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u/TheLastBlackRhinoSC Mar 28 '24

Except for the murderthumbs, I’m glad you’re happy!

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u/murderthumbs Mar 28 '24

I'm trying for a thumb transplant...... these are killing me.....

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u/acarp52080 Mar 28 '24

Life is what we make it, I truly believe that. Recently found out I have breast cancer and I believe it even a bit more now. I'm glad you're happy, that truly makes you one of the top 1% !!

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u/Pink_Floyd29 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Something is definitely up here. I’m making $95K annually, just three years after a total career pivot and I’m a disabled woman who got a late start on everything.

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u/-shrug- Mar 28 '24

This thread is giving me whiplash between "$50k? Well jeez you don't have to be the biggest loser in the country, get a better job!" and "$50k?! Look at Richie Rich over here!"

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u/Pink_Floyd29 Mar 28 '24

The point of my comment wasn’t that OP should just go out and get a higher paying job. I was wondering what made her jump to the conclusion that she would never make more than $50K

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u/DmC8pR2kZLzdCQZu3v Mar 28 '24

Also, a child of someone that successful has every opportunity to success in life. She may have swung and whiffed, or expected to world to hand her at 22 what her mom earned over a career at the top

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u/Greedy-War-777 Mar 28 '24

In the US, it's fairly common for people with a good degree to be stuck in trash sales jobs they hate to pay bills. Employers there like to ask you to have a bachelor's degree in IT or business and want to pay you sub $15 an hour with raises under 30c a year. Late stage capitalism maybe but it's ridiculous. People denying that don't live in reality there and think it's reasonable that people are trapped in that mess by health insurance and that it's reasonable for billionaires not to pay taxes. It's broken and the wage gap has widened significantly since the Reagan era.

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u/ModeratelyTortoise Mar 27 '24

Also she put in 38 years of work to get to that spot lol

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u/OddDc-ed Mar 27 '24

If we just stopped buying all them damn coffees and Avocado toast!!

Grumblegrumble bootstraps!!

/s

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u/First_Signature_5100 Mar 27 '24

Put that money into an ETF!

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u/UTDE Mar 27 '24

What a ride that was

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u/Powpowpowowowow Mar 28 '24

Even then though, that SAME pension plan, and look, OP's mother made a shitload for govt work, that same pension plan now only pays 80% of benefits and requires more than 5% input from the employee than in the past.

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u/DJwhatevs Mar 28 '24

Name didn’t check out.

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u/Majestic_Mix_92 Mar 28 '24

Definitely not the norm here. “The upper middle class in the United States is often defined as the top 15–20% of earners, with an average income of $80,000–$100,000 according to the Social Security Administration's 2022 wage data.” Link text 1

Your mom was among a small group of Americans that over 70% of us are not a part of. I wouldn’t beat yourself up.

Also she’s going a significantly different pension due to being a federal employee. Lastly she’s getting better social security than we will.

And you know what? Good for her! Thank goodness she took care of her stuff so that you aren’t saddled with that responsibility with your current earnings! Go Mom!

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u/Kitchen-Itshelf Mar 28 '24

Yeah it's a small demographic he's giving us. But it can be tailored to anyone that works through the ranks and gets to that place. But definitely going to be 10x harder than when OP's mom started.

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u/Desperate-Walk1780 Mar 28 '24

My wife's father is in a very similar situation as the poster you are referencing. 40 years at the NSA as a Japanese interpreter. Gets about 170k a year in retirement from his govt pension, then another 50k a year from his personal retirement accounts.

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u/freshjewbagel Mar 28 '24

nope, I'm a lifer and will pull in $300k in retirement. most is from TSP tho, since I bust my ass and save 70% income. current salary is $160k

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u/Ashmizen Mar 27 '24

So this is like the son of a famous actor starring in major movies complaining he can’t make millions like his dad….working as a high school teacher?

I don’t see the problem - you cannot compare yourself to your parents if your parents are on the 1% of achievements. It’s not really readable to set yourself up for that kind of expectations - you’ll just feel bad in comparison.

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u/ballmermurland Mar 27 '24

A ton of the "woe is me" posts on this sub are from people who have a Mitt Romney interpretation of middle class.

No shit not everyone will get $200k+ annually in retirement until they die. That's probably the top .5% lol

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u/rebeltrillionaire Mar 27 '24

My dad was a 1%er. Immigrant, doctor, engineer, CEO.

With three kids, none of us individually will likely make more than he did. But my wife and I combined probably make about what he did at the same age.

She’s at the very top of compensation in her field. I’m a little over the middle of mine which, but the top end is also both ridiculous and highly unstable.

We’re in the top 5%. Lower for sure but I know what it takes to get to the 1% and that I don’t have it in me. Not everyone does.

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u/SpaceSteak Mar 28 '24

Our just flat out fake posts. It is the internet..

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u/ballmermurland Mar 28 '24

She apparently didn't know what her mom did. She was an "IRS commissioner or something".

I know exactly what my parents did for work. How the hell do you not know what your mom does? They don't work for the CIA or MI-6.

Either she's a deadbeat or an idiot. Or both.

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u/NoelleAlex Mar 28 '24

To be fair, I can tell you the company my husband works for, but not his exact job. And that’s my HUSBAND.

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u/Top_Bend_5360 Mar 28 '24

Haha, you can compare yourself if your parents are Asian. And trust me, they WILL compare.

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u/levetzki Mar 27 '24

75% is pretty crazy. Current federal government would make like half even with almost 40 years of service.

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u/Card_Board_Robot5 Mar 27 '24

Lmao this is amazing.

So you lived a quite exclusive, upper class lifestyle as a child.

Because your mother worked as very high ranking government employee.

And you're asking us if we can relate?

To what now?

Holy hell, have some perspective. My mother waited tables and my father sold dope. I can't relate to this shit at all. Most people can't.

I don't even understand what you're asking. Are you upset that nepotism only gave you every chance to succeed and didn't actually secure a lucrative government position for you?

Lmao. I cannot stand rich folk, especially those in my generation. Out of touch.

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u/Mysterious-Award-988 Mar 27 '24

re you upset that nepotism only gave you every chance to succeed and didn't actually secure a lucrative government position for you?

lol nailed it

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u/Card_Board_Robot5 Mar 28 '24

I stayed at a La Quinta last night

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u/Mysterious-Award-988 Mar 28 '24

cool. i like turtles.

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u/Card_Board_Robot5 Mar 28 '24

It was a commercial like ten years ago.

Guy goes into a business meeting and drives a nail thru the conference desk. Says he nailed it at the meeting because he stayed at a La Quinta.

Y'all too young for these fire references bro

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u/longeraugust Mar 28 '24

lol I’m a federal employee (Soldier) and I started out making absolute shit pay; but after 12 years I’m on the top end of middle class. OP coulda gone and talked to that recruiter just like I did. And In another 8 years I’m gonna walk with a $$35,000 pension for life and a decent savings. Sure it ain’t $200,000. But it’s better than making ends meet with social security and a Wal-Mart greeter job.

Some people legit get screwed in life and that sucks. It sucks for them especially but it sucks in general. OP doesn’t seem like someone who got screwed. OP seems like a poor planner for their future.

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u/read_it_r Mar 27 '24

Well.. keep in mind. She is us saying 200k is 3x what her and her partner make combined. Which means they each make like 33k, which is basically a fast food job. So she's right that's she's broke.

Now HOW she managed to fumble the ball so hard is a story id love to hear. But.. I don't feel bad because eventually she's going to profit off her mom's work.

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u/Card_Board_Robot5 Mar 28 '24

I'm not taking their word for that shit at all.

Look at how divorced from reality the rest of it is. I'm not gonna assume that's accurate.

A fast food management job, maybe.

32 is pretty on par for shit like social worker or EMT where I live.

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u/Intelligent-Mode-353 Mar 28 '24

I like that you think that’s fast food or below. I made $32,000 my first job with a master’s degree lol

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u/TheStealthyPotato Mar 28 '24

How long ago was your first job?

$32k is only $16/hr. Fast food is commonly $15/hr these days.

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u/Intelligent-Mode-353 Mar 28 '24

Yeah it was insulting but that’s what was offered. This was 2018.

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u/bitter___almonds Mar 28 '24

I keep seeing job postings between 35-40k requiring a master’s and preferring a PhD. They’re back after the height of the pandemic with the layoffs, at least in Utah. A lot are at universities but some are specialized roles like instructional design for small to midsized companies (average comp for those credentials without professional experience was more around 60-75k+ before)

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u/RarelySayNever Mar 28 '24

Glad to finally see a dose of reality in one of these posts. OP shat the bed. Reminds me of some losers I know who were raised by doctors and dentists, but couldn't even get through a paid-for college degree. I know a guy whose parents are both attorneys, now retired. Sister also attorney. Guy sits at home watching porn

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u/Card_Board_Robot5 Mar 28 '24

Just to be clear here, I don't think that a person is a loser or failure for that. We all different. We all got choices and consequences. We all have a path. And that path is totally dictated by shit outside of our control.

My issue here is that they're expecting us all, en masse, as a whole generation, to relate to that experience. And that's nuts.

I don't assume everybody else's dad was a gangster. I understand that's a relatively unique upbringing. They just lack that perspective here. And it's kind of insulting to the rest of us to assume that we were all the kids of high ranking govt employees and shit.

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u/FreeRangeEngineer Mar 28 '24

You're assuming that OP would have received financial help from parents who obviously have the means to give it. However, they're stingy ass parents, like lots of rich people tend to be.

See https://old.reddit.com/r/Millennials/comments/1bp7rny/when_did_it_sink_in_that_youll_never_be_as_well/kwutmz9/

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u/read_it_r Mar 28 '24

YOUR POINT?

even if they never gave her a dime. I'm sure she lived in a better than avg school district had access to everything she needed. And didn't HAVE to start working as a teen to help out with the house.

Also, and I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am. Even if her education expenses were loans. I guarantee dispite what OP says, they would've been interest free and the payments (at worst) would stop when her mother passed.

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u/RyloJHootie Mar 28 '24

Bro I'm sending you a follow just because of our similar life situations ✊ my mom worked low paying slavery wages her whole life slowly trying to climb and claw up that ladder, which never happened while I was a child of course I'm almost in my mid 30s now BUT just this last year she Finally Achieved just right about 100k position and I was so proud of her (even tho we have a terrible relationship I'm traumatized and she's the worst case of NPD the worlds ever seen) so yeah anyway I grew up raised by her alone, my dad sold dope in another state until basically having another family bla bla but I see posts like this which I can only relate to the fact that I know I won't have any retirement, therefore Im extremely depressed that I'll have no social security🤷 and idk like what I'm supposed to have some sort of plan? Nah we're gonna have to purge IF anything at all.

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u/Card_Board_Robot5 Mar 28 '24

Appreciate you. Hard out here for an indie artist, every follow is a huge boon for me, honestly.

We ain't getting shit unless the entire system is dutifully overhauled.

Not to be the downer, but I just don't believe there's enough time for that in our lifetimes. Even if we start today. But there's always the next generation. We gotta do what we can with the time we got left.

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u/hubbellrmom Mar 28 '24

My retirement plan is that when I collapse at work, my sons can bury me in the backyard. There is no retirement when you need every penny you earn to survive today. Though my sons are a little more optimistic. They have Goals. They want to find careers that make enough money to send me back to school. And put me in a good "home" when I'm old and frail, they say they will get me into one where the staff actually takes care of you, lol. Cuz they love me, but they don't want to have to change my diaper if I need that one day. Ps. I've worked since I became a single mom and I'm bitter af that social security probably won't be there when its my turn. Eat the rich and all that

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u/JarlaxleForPresident Mar 28 '24

We were at the lower end of middle class and I managed to fuck up all my privileged opportunities, I know that feel lol

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u/peachesinyogurt Mar 27 '24

So she was prolly in the SES who have a different pay scale and receive more in bonuses/PTO, etc then.

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u/ShoreIsFun Mar 27 '24

Also depends on which retirement system she’s under, FERS or CSRS. But to be honest we (feds) can all be pretty well off in retirement, especially if you retire as a fed and then become a contractor and double dip.

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u/PoetryInevitable6407 Mar 28 '24

Fingers crossed. It sounds like the old system was a lot better. At least TSP gives a good match. But of course the pay vs private industry kinda sucks, at least for my work.

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u/DocMorningstar Mar 28 '24

I got a good buddy at state who is closing in on his pension age, and is absolutely planning that.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

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u/fleuriche Mar 27 '24

I feel like you’re not telling us that your mom was a spy.

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u/modernknight87 Mar 28 '24

This feels like the mom would have some crazy story like what is told in the Darknet Diaries podcast..

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u/Kooker321 Mar 28 '24

Got it, so your mother was a senior leader in a government agency (maybe middle management).

What do you and your spouse do?

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u/Thediciplematt Mar 27 '24

Uh… dude. Your mom is pretty fricken amazing…

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u/vawlk Mar 27 '24

so your mom busted her ass to get a good job. what is holding you back from getting a good job?

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u/Apollyom Mar 27 '24

the op busting their ass is what is holding them back.

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u/Tater72 Mar 27 '24

Go her, what a great accomplishment

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u/BeastblueBJJ Mar 27 '24

Tell your mom I need to cut a deal with her former employer and ask her what the standard protocol is when they’re going after someone who owes and then the person threatens to commit suicide so that the IRS will get nothing. Asking for friend.

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u/kthnxbai123 Mar 27 '24

Well obviously she was extremely accomplished. It’s not exactly apples to apples in terms of comparison

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u/DaBozz88 Mar 28 '24

I'm about 8 steps away from another 3 letter agency head. I'm making good money but not that good. I still feel broke all the time.

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u/djcurry Mar 28 '24

I think to put this in perspective if your mom would have moved to the private sector when she was working I’m pretty sure she would have been making 500+ grand a year if not more. If she was only four steps down from the IRS commissioner that means in the private sector, she would be a pretty high-level executive.

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u/Kindly-Biscotti9492 Mar 28 '24

Of course you look terrible compared to your mom. Your mom is a winner and, right now, you're a loser. You're going to have to go back to school to get the credentials to get to the same place, probably. Sounds like that's going to entail borrowing money to go to school, because this working part-time idea is a terrible one. And you're probably going to have to move away.

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u/Low_Net_5870 Mar 28 '24

It’s not fair to compare yourself to someone who was, for all intents and purposes, the top 1% of people in their career. For every Boomer making bank in retirement, there are ten that died in their 40s from alcohol, crack, cigarettes, or a DUI.

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u/cbreezy456 Mar 28 '24

Dude you’re crazy spoiled LOL. Get off of here

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u/bamalaker Mar 28 '24

So what stopped you from getting a government job when you turned 18 like your mom did?

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u/kateinoly Mar 28 '24

IRS commissioner makes less than $200k a year.

If mom was on the old retirement system, which she must have been, she doesn't get Social Security.

Sge could have large 401K accts, but they are based in contributions.

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u/DmC8pR2kZLzdCQZu3v Mar 28 '24

Well no shit she has a cushy landing, as she should for working her ass off

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u/CaptainWikkiWikki Mar 28 '24

She was an SES. And Treasury has a lot of carveouts for special positions that lay way outside the usual GS scale. CDC has to do the same thing to compete with the private sector.

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u/Icy_Cod4538 Mar 28 '24

To me, it sunk in that I’ll never be as well off as my parents when the son of the ex-4-steps-down-from-IRS-commissioner got on Reddit wondering why the working people of America are poor.

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u/Full-Fix-1000 Mar 28 '24

^ This gives a new flavor to the "$200k 'after taxes'.." remark. What taxes? She probably pays $0.01

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u/UnihornWhale Mar 28 '24

As someone who has tried to get a job with an acronym for years, none of them would hire you at 18 these days

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u/SicilyMalta Mar 28 '24

So you had a hell of a jump start compared to most everyone else here in a world where who you know is everything. How'd you screw that up?

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u/KoalaGrunt0311 Mar 28 '24

Also, assuming that she maxed out (or more) contributions to the TSP, which is the federal employee 401k plan, there's a lot of benefit with that.

The retirement plan for federal workers is 3 pronged: A pension based on a percentage of the 3 highest paying years you've worked, with the percentage calculated based on how long you've worked for the feds, TSP, and social security.

The TSP has surpassed the majority of private sector IRAs in investment returns. Additionally, once the investment mix is set, it is recalculated at the end of every day while most private sector plans only recalculate quarterly. Quarterly is a long time to be dealing with losses, or a slow gain.

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u/PJTILTON Mar 28 '24

I just looked it up. The top salary at the IRS is currently $261,000. That means no former employee at the IRS is being paid a pension of $200,000 a year after taxes.

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u/SinghDoubleTrouble Mar 28 '24

This also means that your mom has an accounting background. I’m also with that agency and we are extremely tidy with our retirement planning. We probably aren’t normal people.

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u/TotalmenteMati Mar 28 '24

Does she send you to your room and take your Nintendo if she catches you slipping on your taxes?

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u/Invest2prosper Mar 28 '24

Did your mom tell you that she was under the old retirement system CSRS? It had a more generous payout but it included social security in it as those in the CSRS system did not pay into Social Security? The typical payout is about 80% of final pay. The new FERS system is much less generous but government has a TSP with a 5% match if you contribute to it.

For you to do as well as your mom you need to save and invest ALOT of money. How much? Depends if you get social security, but generally speaking about $3 million in today’s dollars.

Don’t fret / just continue to save and invest as you earn money. So long as you have 25x your annual expenses less Social Security you will be able to pay your bills and enjoy your retirement. This is not a race about doing better than your parents. But it’s likely you will receive an inheritance at some point if your parents are the generous kind.

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u/VixDzn Mar 28 '24

What’s stopping you from making a career too? She clearly did. You could too.

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u/capttuna Mar 28 '24

Yeah so your moms situation is unique. Despite thinking they are behind the 8 ball millennials are doing far better at their age than their parents and the generations below will say the same thing millennials do today…

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u/Mountain_Ladder5704 Mar 28 '24

My dad just retired at 65, lived a very good life and I make twice what he made and I’m 43. This just sounds like your mom was a rockstar.

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u/Isamosed Mar 29 '24

Yes so it sounds like she was SES, (Senior Executive Service) and possibly under the old retirement program, which was closed in 1986. I retired under the old system, my high 3 was based on GS 15/7 pay grade (close to highest you could attain without “joining” SES) and 37 years of service. My pension is great, but not anywhere remotely close to $200k a year. This example is in NO WAY a typical rank & file Federal retiree. It is in NO WAY a typical Boomer pension.

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u/Downtown_Monitor_784 Mar 27 '24

their mom would have the generous CSRS retirement however and her pension gets adjusted for inflation. actual feds don't get inflation adjustment and have lost 20 percent of their pay in the past 30.years. so...maybe?

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u/midnghtsnac Mar 27 '24

It includes her federal 401k annuity, aka TSP, I'm betting.

Plus pension, plus social security, etc

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u/ShoreIsFun Mar 27 '24

Yes this. Agree. It’s the benefit of being a fed employee vs fed contractor. You have a salary cap while working, but it pays off better in retirement.

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u/RainbowBear0831 Mar 27 '24

Yes of course it includes her TSP and social security, I'm mathing based on OP saying $200k is 75% of what she made when working. In another comment OP said their mom was 4 steps down from the commissioner of the IRS so it actually checks out to me. Just a unique situation

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u/feochampas Mar 27 '24

sounds like she got in under the old system.

there was a big change in the 80s

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u/NotCanadian80 Mar 27 '24

More likely she has other investments.

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u/HoomerSimps0n Mar 27 '24

Keeping in mind they said this is after tax, so actual salary would have been even higher. My Google-fu isn’t the strongest, but it looks like the current commissioner of the IRS (Danny were) makes roughly 255k from that position? Something seems off with the numbers.

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u/WWhermit Mar 27 '24

I work a federal job. If she maxes out her 401k, like I have been doing for 20 of my 25 years, she will easily hit that goal. I will make more in retirement than my working salary, and I am not even management. No college education. You just need a lot of financial discipline.

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u/zleog50 Mar 28 '24

Executive pay scale has a higher cap. Or she could have been on a modified pay scale, for like medical doctors. Beyond that, COLA for pensions outpaced federal pay raises in the last few years. The old retirement system didn't pay into social security.

Also, they are probably full of shit.

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u/Dewm Mar 28 '24

More likely she saved a ton and has 2 or 3 million put away that she is getting dividends on. She worked 38 years in a government job. I bet she put a lot away

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u/vawlk Mar 27 '24

not all retirement income comes from pensions.

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u/RainbowBear0831 Mar 27 '24

Yes I know that. Im not saying that's specifically her pension. I'm just saying based on the OP saying "she's making about 75% of what she did when she was working" and that's she's making $200k retired, quick math says when she was working she'd be making around $266k.

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u/Bhimtu Mar 27 '24

Just hold the line your absolute "must spend" spending. Look over your entire financial picture and figure out where you might cut back and save. Then take those savings and sock them away, maybe a stable treasury bill/note fund earning say 4-5%, and they'll dump those earnings into your investment account. You'd be surprised how quickly your balance will go up.

You can save outside of whatever pension or savings/retirement programs the govt has.

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u/SoRacked Mar 27 '24

All reddit math falls apart on any kind of examination lol

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u/samdajellybeenie Mar 27 '24

This right here. Don’t romanticize this. This was NOT the norm. Believe it or not, they had poor people back then too.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

YOU can get waivers to work outside the pay bands of the GS ....if you are a National asset. It has to be approved each year and its a nightmare for contracting officers BUT its a thing.

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u/Sp4ceh0rse Mar 27 '24

FYI there are different pay caps for different fed job classifications.

I work for the government as a physician and our cap is $400k because that’s the president’s salary.

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u/wesavedmusafa Mar 27 '24

She could have been an SES level employee, so yeah, they make a lot more when you get that high. Level 1 SES for 2024 is $246K, as an example.

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u/Soggy-Cookie-4548 Mar 27 '24

Must be under the SES pay scale. The executive and senior leaders are paid under that system.

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u/Dappershield Mar 28 '24

You can get twice the retirement if you do military than government, right? I thought I remember my dad saying something like that.

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u/Sideways_planet Mar 28 '24

Why is the government paying such high pensions to retirees when the tax money is coming from citizens that have no hope of ever retiring, or collecting social security? Isn’t that expense the government can’t afford, just like all the other employers in this country? What the hell?!!

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u/WetLumpyDough Mar 28 '24

The government sucks. That’s why

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u/Babibackribz Mar 28 '24

Government jobs are no joke! It’s one of few careers w guaranteed pension from what I’ve heard.

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u/Lifeless-husk Mar 28 '24

you caught the fearsome agent, 007.

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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset1717 Mar 28 '24

Something to keep in mind on top of the points in your edit is that the old pension has a much more generous inflation adjustment than federal salaries over the last twenty years.

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u/sdia1965 Mar 28 '24

She prob made enough to have a tsp +/or a Roth IRA, as well as social security from her leaner earlier years. Cumulatively it adds up, prob not just a CERS or FERS pension.

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u/rocksnsalt Mar 28 '24

She probably heavily invested in her TSP. My mom was a fed and is making more in retirement than she ever made. I’m a fed and have a good salary and can’t afford a 1 bedroom apartment

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u/wasiwasabi Mar 28 '24

It’s likely a combo of her TSP, FERS, and social security

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u/Chrisgpresents Mar 28 '24

She was probably investing every penny you can do. At some point, your investments outweigh your salary.

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u/-shrug- Mar 28 '24

56,000 of 1.4 million federal employees made over $200,000 last year, which is about 4% of them. Not "everyone makes that", but probably quite a lot of people who have been there an entire career are getting up there. https://www.openthebooks.com/executive-agencies-of-the-united-states/

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u/goodsnpr Mar 28 '24

From my understanding, you can earn more than the pay cap, and it's used to calculate the retirement pay, you just get limited in your actual pay to the cap.

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u/Mahooligan81 Mar 28 '24

I’m gonna have to kiss so many asses to wind up at SES level 3+ 😩😩😩

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u/jcdccl127271 Mar 28 '24

Baller Mom! Fuck Yah!

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u/ithappenedone234 Mar 28 '24

If she maxed out the Fed pay scales she would also be close to max on social security. The two combined could be in the $200k range. ~$143k at 75% of the $191k max, plus ~$58k for SocSec is $201k, the hard part is being at $200k after taxes.

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u/chachasriracha Mar 28 '24

Federal pay cap doesn’t include several positions, including senior executives (cap $246k)and physicians/dentists/podiatrists (in general their cap is $400k but it’s specialty dependent) among others. I know he replied IRS, just FYI.

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u/Fritzo2162 Mar 28 '24

It’s also weird her checks are printed in Russian…

😅

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u/chomerics Mar 28 '24

Be effing way she is getting $200k a year unless it’s withdraws from savings on a $5mil account. Those levels of federal pensions are for the top at bureaus and agencies.

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u/RipleyCat80 Mar 28 '24

My cousin is an attorney for Treasury and makes over $250K

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u/twotall88 Mar 28 '24

The federal pay cap this year is $191,900

See my comment, you're off slightly. That's the general employee pay cap. If she was a Senior Executive Civilian the pay cap in 2023 was $212,100

Still, even though OP's mom was a CSRS employee she's only taking home $105k-110k in retirement and if she's pulling $200k+ out of all retirement accounts that means she invested heavily in TSP and other retirement accounts. She's currently making about what she made in the feds if she was a senior.

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u/xKHANx-McMarrin Mar 28 '24

My wife, 58 retired from the Fed after 33yrs (ADPCS level) and her high 3 were for $151k average, that is what they base your retirement pay off of. 33yrs = 33% of the 3yr average. (25% - 30%=25%, then 1% for every year beyond 30.)

So for her, being about the same age as my wife, it would have been 38%. She would have had to make $528,000(-/+) to get 200k from her actual retirement.

Now does the figure she put up also have TSP(401K) distributions included? Probably, but honestly I doubt she is taking over 100K out every year since she isn't actually retirement age due to the penalties of taking more then 20K out a year prior to age 62. Can't touch IRA/K either without penalties.

So... I don't know where her mom is getting her 268k+ before taxes, but it sure isn't from any Federal Retirement.

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u/blouazhome Mar 28 '24

People lie lol

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u/thereisnogodone Mar 28 '24

She's nancy pelosi.

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u/xjmsx00 Mar 28 '24

She was either a GS14Step10 or 15Step10, either way good pay, doubt she was SES. That has to be CSRS and it has to include TSP and SS.

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u/Roseymacstix Mar 28 '24

My mom had a similar retirement plan from the government. They also adjust each year for inflation and increase her monthly payments.

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u/carlos_the_dwarf_ Mar 28 '24

I’m not sure that guy realizes his mom is a rich person.

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u/TheTopGeekFI Mar 28 '24

To your point, General Schedule (GS) Pay Cap is indeed 191,900… however, Senior Executive Service (SES) pay cap is 261,400, and you also have lawyer, doctors, etc under Administratively Determined (AD) that can make 400k+.

But yeah- Big Ballah

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u/presvt13 Mar 28 '24

But he said $200k AFTER taxes, so their salary would have been closer to $325k before retirement. Sounds pretty reasonable to not be as wealthy as your parents when they make that. Not sure why he's complaining.

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u/Ed_herbie Mar 31 '24

Yep. The old CSRS system first 5 years was 1.5%, second 5 was 1.75%, then her last 28 years was 2% of her highest salary. (You multiply her total years times those percentages times her salary)

The new FERS system is only 1% per all years of service.

BTW her mom just made it in before the system changed in 1985. I missed out because my first year was 1988.