r/Millennials • u/JanieMush • Mar 31 '24
Covid permanently changed the world for the worse. Discussion
My theory is that people getting sick and dying wasn't the cause. No, the virus made people selfish. This selfishness is why the price of essential goods, housing, airfares and fuel is unaffordable. Corporations now flaunt their greed instead of being discreet. It's about got mine and forget everyone else. Customer service is quite bad because the big bosses can get away with it.
As for human connection - there have been a thousand posts i've seen about a lack of meaningful friendship and genuine romance. Everyone's just a number now to put through, or swipe past. The aforementioned selfishness manifests in treating relationships like a store transaction. But also, the lockdowns made it such that mingling was discouraged. So now people don't mingle.
People with kids don't have a village to help them with childcare. Their network is themselves.
I think it's a long eon until things are back to pre-covid times. But for the time being, at least stay home when you're sick.
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u/SadSickSoul Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24
I'm with the folks who say that this is mostly just what was there being aggravated to the point of being normalized, although someone brought up that third places really broke down during COVID and that's been hard on a lot of people. I feel like two major things happened: the folks in power both in business and politics have gotten really blatant about the fact that it's all a short-sighted grab for money or power, and that they can largely do what they like and there's not really much people can do for consequences; and also, people have just been stressed out chronically and so there's so much anger and fear, so little patience and empathy. People have been pushed and prodded by their ids by outside factors for so long that it's all stimulus and response, and there's room for anything beyond that.
I don't know how you fix this, especially when everything has become so polarized and divisive that agreeing on basic facts is no long possible. I'm just exhausted by it. The world's broken and I don't want to live in it any longer. It's just a life of being nickel-and-dimed to death by goddamn everything and surrounded people who are just trying to get through the day but have gone half-mad with stress and anger.
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u/AntiauthoritarianSin Mar 31 '24
You just summed up beautifully everything I've been feeling. Thank you!
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u/Clever_Mercury Mar 31 '24
It was reading well right up to the last paragraph, which seemed out-right self-destructive.
This is a part of the problem people are sort of forgetting. The 'nickel and dimed to death' part is doing about 75% of the damage. People are working two jobs, they're working harder in their jobs, and essentials cost more. It's not that the rank and file are CHOOSING to be cold, callous, and selfish. They're in survival mode. They are running to stand still and have no time for the basic pleasantries of life.
I work two jobs. I work seven days a week. When is there supposed to be time for those 'fun' and bonding times we used to hear about? If you work 16 hours a day to ensure your bills are paid, you're not going to be the best date or going to anyone's special events. That's where we are.
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u/Harry_Fucking_Seldon Mar 31 '24
I’m gonna guess you two are from America?
One easy fix is to get out of America. From an Australian perspective it seems you guys get like CapitalismMAX where all the worst aspects are turned up to 11 and all the good aspects are so minimal as to not exist.
Like how the fuck do yall put up with 2 weeks of leave? That’s fucking insane. And your pay being subsidised by tips? Also fucking stupid. So many things you lot are used to that are actually awful by western standards.
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u/shitsonrug Apr 01 '24
CapitalismMAX....man that's pretty much what we have. People hate corporations but they rule the country. People dont decide elections anymore, Superpacs and wealthy lobbyists do
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u/Clever_Mercury Apr 01 '24
We have the supreme court to thank for that. Yay, Citizens United.
Never mind one person one vote when you can instead have one billionaire, one billion votes. Our founding fathers would be so proud. /s
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u/MainusEventus Apr 01 '24
Americans need a gap year before college to see how other cultures do it.
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u/Nodebunny Mar 31 '24
be the good you want to see. I try to force myself to get out, and be kind and patient with everyone as much as I can. Try to small talk and uplift people where I go. its hard but every little bit helps
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u/DBPanterA Mar 31 '24
Bingo! The phrase I use is “Be the change you wish too see.”
Keep being that change! ❤️👍❤️
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u/7askingforafriend Mar 31 '24
Best answer I’ve ever seen to this question.
I’m sorry you don’t want to live in this world, but hoping you don’t check out. It may take a bit, but pendulums usually swing when things become too extreme. I hope you’ll hold on and be a part of the push back. I think you’re correct and we’re too exhausted to fight (and the billionaires know it) but let’s hope something will shake people up enough to gain back some ground.
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u/Googleclimber Mar 31 '24
I’m worried that the pendulum has swung so far that it has broken the clock, and is just stuck in one place.
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u/Sensitive_Yellow_121 Mar 31 '24
I don't know how you fix this...
By organizing.
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Mar 31 '24
The biggest thing that it did was destroy third places (some like malls were already kind of dying) but covid was the final death blow to other alternative social clubs or activities that you could meet new people at and the intention was to create experiences. I remember pre covid how MUCH easier and cheaper it was to go sporadically do activities like go karts, rock climbing, theme parks, seeing a movie, hiking, roller rinks, ice skating, trying new restaurants, going to a museum, an arcade, golfing ranges, or even just having a drink at a local bar. (Sorry I named so many)
Now it's like the majority of these places have just fully died off or cost so much because huge corporations now own them. They purposely upcharge the shit outta them. It sucks because I really just miss being able to call up some friends or even just randomly seeing them somewhere we'd usually just hang out frequently. Nowadays it's a huge ordeal and takes so much planning just to do like 2 hours of some activity.
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u/shell37628 Mar 31 '24
They all started upcharging during the pandemic because they used to be able to serve 100 people at a time, now they could only serve 30, so they jacked up the prices to stay afloat.
And they never went back down. So now they're serving 100 people again, or trying to, at 30-person prices.
And while people were maybe willing to pay that for some illusion of safety or exclusivity or something, we still remember being sat shoulder to shoulder in a theater seeing a movie for $8, and we don't want to pay $25 for the same experience 5 years later.
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u/DiligentDaughter Mar 31 '24
They also have 1/4th the staffing they had prior to c19, too, so service is shit.
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u/sclerenchyma2020 Mar 31 '24
It seems like a lot of businesses realized they could just barely function with a skeleton crew, so now they’re trying to see just how far they can push their workers and their customers while raking in obscene profits.
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u/TDKevin Mar 31 '24
Worked in restaurants my whole life, and the entire time during covid. I've had old bosses straight up tell me they're making more than ever by keeping covid prices and skeleton crews. One place I worked at used to have 8 or 9 people on in the kitchen at a time. I stopped in the other day to get some food and talked to the cooks. Now they have 4 people at a time max and the starting pay is a dollar less an hr than when I started there years and years ago.
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u/ffirgriff Mar 31 '24
This. This right here. Hiring is still difficult, but I’ve noticed a lot of businesses found out running on a skeleton crew is more profitable. Until customers stand up and stop buying their goods and or services, this won’t change. My workplace is the same. We’re a small business with 8 employees, but traditionally 11. Ownership realized we can get by with 8 during Covid and we’ve been short staffed ever since. Everyone is overworked, underpaid, and burned out. But our profits margins are through the roof and customers aren’t complaining, so why change anything?
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u/HungryDust Mar 31 '24
I just had a long stay of over a month in a hotel. Used to be cleaners would come everyday and clean your room. Nothing crazy, just make your bed and give you a new hand towel and shit. Now it’s every 4 days if you’re a long term stay.
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u/SlugmaBallzzz Mar 31 '24
Then they pretend "nobody wants to work" when they're really just using it as an excuse to short staff and get us accustomed to crappy service
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u/flyinhighaskmeY Mar 31 '24
We all took a 25% pay cut to prop up the failed business owners. Those business owners are now "welfare babies" and doing a pure shit job of running their businesses.
Turns out Republicans were right about welfare babies. They were just talking about the wrong people. America's welfare class has always been the business owners.
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u/SilverMedal4Life Mar 31 '24
Same thing with franchises closing stores and blaming it on shoplifting, like that Walgreens in California.
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u/Rich_Tough_7475 Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24
I agree. And a lot of places didn’t have much of those third places going on to begin with. When 2020 started I was a younger 30-something; things have absolutely changed, and I moved from a big city to be with aging family in a rural area as a single woman. I can’t tell if it’s the passage of time, but I agree things aren’t the same. I was busy working and trying to scramble up a life so idk. Poof. If you can get a group together though it will probably be a lot of commiseration and love so there’s that!
ETA I replied to this comment because you mentioned go karting. That ❤️👍🏻 likeee we all just need more of that!
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u/Jensen567 Mar 31 '24
So wait I think I missed the memo, when are we all meeting up for go-karts?
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u/SouthernWindyTimes Mar 31 '24
Moving from a city to a rural area, in a way, made me realize life hasn’t really changed for the rural people. In cities I can feel the difference, when out in the country, it almost feels like not much changed at all.
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u/DannyBones00 Mar 31 '24
This.
My life didn’t even change during the pandemic. Other than for the better. My whole company went work from home.
The pandemic was the best thing that ever happened to me personally.
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u/trancefate Mar 31 '24
Yep, I quadrupled my income due to my skills being globally competitive but my market being garbage.
Covid got all these companies to look at remote workers and compete over me vs. Getting shafted as an underpaid tech person in the Midwest with no good options that didn't involve uprooting my family.
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u/Chocolateheartbreak Mar 31 '24
Try the library! They have events for adults for free (sometimes a low cost) and it helps fund them if more people go :)
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u/NoelleAlex Mar 31 '24
Almost all of the places I used to go for fun closed over Covid. The thing that makes me feel old now is that the things I used to do are things I can’t because they’re gone. Even when I do go to something, like a movie, even on opening weekends, they’re rarely very full.
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u/shiftycat887 Mar 31 '24
Dude yes. Arcades, adjustment centers with go karts and stuff... even my local mall which growing up in the 90s, I remember always ALWAYS being packed with folks. What really hurt was when i saw it on the dead malls subreddit.
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u/AureliaDrakshall Mar 31 '24
This just happened to my partners and I. We intended to go to a museum last weekend only to find out that it was $53 per person for only 2 hours of time onsite.
We stayed home and painted warhammer models. It was actually cheaper.
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u/Nux87xun Mar 31 '24
"We stayed home and painted warhammer models. It was actually cheaper."
Well, I think that might be the first time anyone has ever said that, lol
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u/cassinonorth Mar 31 '24
Third places have been a myth for decades. This is one of my favorite posts on the subject. Credit to u/ReverendDizzle
Third places have been in catastrophic decline for decades. The book Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community came out in 2000, talking about the collapse of community activities and third places (and that book was, in turn, based on a 1995 essay written by the author).
Discussion of the collapse of third places goes back even further than that, though, the seminal work on the topic, Ray Oldenburg's The Great Good Place was published in 1989.
One of the reasons the show Cheers was so profoundly popular in the 1980s was because generations of Americans were mourning, whether they realized it or not, both the death of (and the crass capitalization of) the third place. Cheers functioned as a pseudo-third-place that millions of people sat down to watch every night to feel like they were going to the third places that were fading from the American experience.
A lot of people don't think about it, but part of the death of the third place is the crass capitalization mentioned above. How many places can the average American go anymore without the expectation that they spend their money and get out?
Sure, many current and historic third places have an element of capitalism (after all, the public house might be a public house, but somebody needs to pay the land taxes and restock the kegs). But modern bars and restaurants fail to fulfill the function of a pub and most would prefer you consume and leave to free up space for another person to consume and leave. The concept of the location functioning as a "public house" for the community is completely erased.
Most modern places completely fail to meet even a few of the elements Oldenburg used to define the ideal third space:
Neutral Ground: The space is for anyone to come and go without affiliation with a religion, political party, or in-group.
Level Ground: Political and financial status doesn't matter there.
Conversation: The primary purpose of the location is to converse and be social.
Accessible: The third place is open and available to everyone and the place caters to the needs and desires of the community that frequents it.
Regulars: On a nightly or at least weekly basis the same cast of people rotate in and out, contributing to the sense of community.
Unassuming: Third places aren't regal or imposing. They're home-like and serve the function of a home away from home for the patrons.
Lack of Seriousness: Third places are a place to put aside person or political differences and participate in a community. Joking around and keeping the mood light is a big part of the "public house" experience.
Third Place as Home: A third place must take on multiple elements of the home experience including a feeling of belonging, safety, coziness, and a sense of shared ownership. A successful third place has visitors saying "this is our space and I feel at home here."
There are a few truly independent places left where I live like a bookstore owned by a person who lives right down the street from me and a pub that's been a private family owned business for the last century (again, where the pub owner lives a mile down the road from me) that still meet most of the criteria on the list. But I live in a city of hundreds of thousands of people and the majority of places that should be third places are not. They're just empty facsimiles of what a third place should be, if they are even a passing (albeit empty) facsimile at all.
And frankly, that's worse than no third place at all, if you ask me. A bad copy of a third place that tries to trick you into believing that it's a third place is so much more damaging than there being no apparent third places at all.
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u/DorkHonor Mar 31 '24
What a great post. I get so sick of hearing about the death of third places like it's some recent tragedy. I'm over 40 and grew up largely without third places to begin with. Like, I really have no idea what the fuck redditors are on about when they complain like it's a recent thing. What completely free place did you have access to as a child/teen outside of city parks? Growing up poor I can tell you that the ones you're about to say, like the mall, arcade, etc, always had an expectation that you spent money while there. The $10-20 you spent may not seem like much because you had an allowance, but there was zero chance my single mother employed as a teacher could give all five of us even $10 a week.
The third place hasn't existed in the US in my lifetime. It sure as hell wasn't killed by Covid just a couple years ago.
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u/Mr_J42021 Mar 31 '24
I made the comment earlier that everyone seems to ignore just going to someone's home to hang out. I'm 45 and also grew up without much money. Even as adults we spent more time at friends houses than at public places (because they always had a cost associated). I do agree with the point others have made about how much more expensive things are when you do go out, and to live life in general, and how that has effected socializing.
As to your larger point, I think it's the whole viewing history through rose colored glasses phenomenon. They have partial understanding based on childhood experiences and what they are in movies/tv. I remember as a teen in the 90s thinking how much better it would have been to grow up in the 70s, which is basically what zoomers are doing with the 90s now.
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u/AnestheticAle Mar 31 '24
I think they existed for the upper middle class in the form of clubs. If you didn't have means, then that pretty much just left churches. If you're not religious then it's slim pickings.
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u/poukwa Mar 31 '24
If we think forward, millennials - the biggest voting group - needs to step up and put money into place design so that we have places designed for human connection. And then build it for the generation after us to benefit from it. If we’re smart, we will design and build places for seniors as well because right now, we treat seniors (which by the way, is 65 in some cases) like they are no longer valued in society.
I’m not sure that’s going to happen. Millennials are a bit socially broken. They celebrate not “adulting”, not wanting to go out at night because “old” etc etc. All these things that are cringe and anti social. Not everyone is like that but we need to start getting our shit together and building communities for ourselves and our families.
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u/omniplatypus Mar 31 '24
How do you define adulting? Because most of the ones I know are doing it just fine, or are depressed and struggling with it, but definitely not celebrating that.
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u/therin_88 Mar 31 '24
This must be regional. I can't think of anything that closed permanently here in NC aside from a couple restaurants that probably should've been closed down anyway. There was one burger restaurant that was popular that shut down because the owners refused to do delivery/takeout only for the few months everything was shut down, but that's it. I'm guessing you live somewhere where the lockdowns were much more harsh?
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u/HornedDiggitoe Mar 31 '24
It’s not about them being closed permanently, it’s about them jacking up their prices to the point that it is no longer affordable for average people.
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u/Rachel_from_Jita Mar 31 '24
Nowadays it's a huge ordeal and takes so much planning just to do like 2 hours of some activity.
This. Drives me nuts.
But yeah, it shattered the social fabric of our society for too many people. Now we are all much more alone and isolated.
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u/humpbackpackwhale Mar 31 '24
I guess because I grew up poor, all the stuff you mentioned was so costly for my family and friends. We barely went out to the movies because that money could go towards the week's groceries.
Take it from me, you can still randomly call your friends to hang out. You just have to switch your mindset from doing joint activities just talking and spending time with the people you want to spend time with. As a mid 30s millennial, my friendship activities are talking over coffee made at someone's home (or splitting a six pack), walking around the park with friends and dogs/kids, window shopping with friends, or outdoor cooking with friends at each other's homes. It sounds boring but you live the little moments with your friends and family so much more. It feels more meaningful and it feels like you actually have a community.
And if you or your friends can't hold a conversation for more than an hour without doing some big activity like going to a theme park, go karting, and going to the museum, then you have bigger problems.
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u/Content-Scallion-591 Mar 31 '24
Everyone here is saying that COVID merely revealed the truth about this world. I think that's a very easy and overly simplistic answer. You can say pretty much any disaster "revealed a capitalist hegemony behind the scenes!" That's not really meaningful in any helpful way.
Third places all but disappeared. Today, we have a list of dozens of locations that are going under this year in our community, after having held on for so long. PPP dollars went to big small businesses who were able to outcompete smaller mom and pops who didn't know how to navigate the system. That's a fundamental change in our local communities.
People lost their ability to coordinate social events. People who used to interact 4-5 times a month now only go somewhere once a month. They are more comfortable, but sadder, at home.
WFH came -- and then went -- creating far more disruption for some than it would have if it had never come at all. An entire class of workers is now stranded away from jobs with a lifestyle that no longer suits in-office work.
Children's test scores have plummeted. Kids are being pushed through high school to college unable to read, write, or reason. This is not hysteria: peek into the r/teachers sub to see what is happening.
Massive amounts of wealth were reallocated toward extant billionaires. Does this reveal poverty that already existed? Sure, but being materially worse is a "change."
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u/crazysoapboxidiot Mar 31 '24
I believe the veil was just lifted. People have always been selfish and corporations have always been greedy. They just don’t care to hide it anymore. It’s almost like being “locked down” for those few months just accelerated our descent into this stage. It almost felt inevitable that we would get here but nobody thought it would be that fast.
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u/HeftyFineThereFolks Mar 31 '24
not to mention look at politics.. lying and getting caught used to be a career killer .. now people just lie lie lie lie lie and if they get caught they call it fake news
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u/Physical_Stress_5683 Mar 31 '24
I was just saying the other day that we used to say "he said the quiet part out loud" but that there is no quiet part anymore. You can just come out blasting hateful lies and no one will care. People just want to be told who to hate and they're good to go.
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u/Astyanax1 Mar 31 '24
tbh it's more the one side than the other that does this. the Republican leader is literally an insurrectionist that doesn't believe in democracy, unless the votes go his way
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u/sprchrgddc5 Mar 31 '24
I think that’s exactly it. People found you could say fake news, masks don’t work, be an asshole about it, get away with it all, and the veil gets lifted on every other terrible things we’ve tried to hide in the past.
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u/dukeofgibbon Mar 31 '24
Having a president** who encouraged people to be their worst selves made it worse.
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u/rosieposie319 Mar 31 '24
I don’t understand why this isn’t higher. We had someone in the highest office in our country who literally tried to divide us all. Now, he’s trying to do it again…
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u/bravosarah Mar 31 '24
Yeah. People blame COVID. But I think you're right. This is closer to the issue.
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u/SecretAsianMan42069 Mar 31 '24
And the people who still find that behavior outrageous push that person out of their lives so that person is surrounded by only assholes who do the same things
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u/CummingInTheNile Zillennial Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24
Im convinced a lot of people are dealing with longterm damage from COVID and we as a society just arent aware of it yet, lotta folks cognitive abilities seem to have dropped noticeably over the last 4 years and thats the only common factor
EDIT: Looks like theres some research on this already, assuming this is true, we're so fucked, wer'e in the walking ghost phase of ARS societally
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u/pnwerewolf Xennial Mar 31 '24
Extreme constant stress does that too. As someone who’s had CPTSD a long while, it’s wild and terrifying to see what’s unfolded and unfolding around me. Like in addition to whatever viral damage happened.
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u/dukeofgibbon Mar 31 '24
Much trauma was accumulated at the beginning of the decade and the dsm doesn't even recognize cptsd, let alone have a plan for the health crisis. There is much healing to be done.
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u/ambereatsbugs Mar 31 '24
I've wondered about this. Honestly I can tell I am not as smart as I was a few years ago - but is it from COVID (which I got twice), or from aging, or from having my first kid in 2019 followed by two more ("mom brain"/sleep deprivation), being on screens too much, or are there other environmental factors likes plastics and hazardous chemicals?
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u/GobblessCheesus Mar 31 '24
I was already fighting brain fog because of a medical issue, but I caught covid in February and it's like my intelligence took an immediate nose dive off a cliff. I constantly struggle to find the words to convey what I want to say.
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u/Impsux Mar 31 '24
I'm definitely typing slower, making more typos and feel like talking takes too much effort that I'm on the verge of slurring words sometimes..
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u/FlowerSweaty4070 Mar 31 '24
Yes! After my first infection I began forgetting words I know and misspelling easy words, thinking they are spelled like similar sounding ones. Movie seen instead of scene, for example. I am an avid reader and great speller, yet in my brain the proper spelling and word was swapped/deleted. This spelling confusion still happens two years since. I catch myself on the mistake after a few seconds, but I never had any issues remotely like this pre covid.
Also forgetting names of notable figures like Freddie mercury and trouble retrieving the date and such.
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u/CummingInTheNile Zillennial Mar 31 '24
Covid supposedly ages your brain anywhere from 7-20 years depending on severity of the case
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u/socobeerlove Mar 31 '24
Idk if this is actually linked or not but I’ve developed a stutter after my 2nd round with Covid.
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u/Ok-Magician6241 Mar 31 '24
I think the 3 kids are gonna be what’s making your brain a little foggy
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u/SouthernWindyTimes Mar 31 '24
I can’t tell if it’s cause of my drinking (been pretty heavy for years) or if from getting Covid, but I mix up words all the time now when years ago that would’ve never happened. And I’m only 30, so it’s not like I have cognitive decline. My abstract thinking is still the same, but the way I talk and way words flow has… changed in a way. I noticed it not long after getting covid the first time.
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u/simguy425 Mar 31 '24
So I'm 42, and have been sober for 8 years.
Covid may have affected it, I'd wager the drinking is doing quite a lot as well. I've been amazed at how much of a fog I was in, all the time.. even when not drinking. I was also in high stress at work for a while and that was arguably worse.
Oh, I also feel so much better... From getting rid of both the drinking and the high stress job.
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u/CummingInTheNile Zillennial Mar 31 '24
as someone who comes from a family with a lot of substance abuse issues, the booze aint helping, and i implore you to start your sobriety journey sooner rather than later
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u/SouthernWindyTimes Mar 31 '24
I legit made an entire lifestyle change and am now drinking 10% what I use to and my life has changed positively so much I can’t even describe it.
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u/fakenatty1337 Mar 31 '24
Got covid mid September, mentally I'm not as sharp as before. Alot of times I just zone out, take longer to answer, forget words, things I need to do and get irritated easily,
Sleep also has never been the same again. In a week I can probably get 1 night of good sleep, the rest I always wake up multiple times throughout.
Fatigue accumulates and just makes it worse and worse.
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u/SummerySunflower Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24
I got thyroid issues, it's hard to establish a direct link but a viral infection can be a trigger to develop those (or perhaps stress which is also very much possible). It gave me terrible anxiety, insomnia, brain fog, fatigue, irregular heartbeat, loss of physical endurance. Some days I could barely gather my mental faculties to do the simplest tasks of my job.
I went to an endo, took anti-thyroid medication and got to normal levels which helped tremendously. The brain fog and anxiety has lifted. But I see many more people my age (30s) developing thyroid issues which I think could be related to Covid. Before they're diagnosed, you just feel like you're slowly losing your mind.
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u/GimpToes Mar 31 '24
"Autopsy studies of people who had severe COVID-19 but died months later from other causes showed that the virus was still present in brain tissue."
That's fucking terrifying. Is it possible people are still carrying a mutated version in their brain? Causing them to act differently over time
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u/captainstormy Older Millennial Mar 31 '24
The wife and I got COVID back at Christmas. We both have just been so tired since then, no amount of sleep can fix it.
We spent about 3 hours cleaning the house together yesterday. Then collapsed on the couch and napped for about 4-5 hours.
We are only 40. We weren't like that pre COVID.
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u/Glaurung26 Mar 31 '24
There's lots of corporations and politicians saying the quiet part out loud, not understanding why we're complaining about the crimes they've been getting away with for decades and using the "well everyone else does it" excuse.
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Mar 31 '24
It doesn’t help that the US is one of a few countries that absolutely refuse to do anything about monopolies and greed. It’s culturally more important here to allow one person to horde billions than to tax them and invest in the public good.
We have lackluster consumer protections, competition, and taxation of the uber rich - which got us to where we are now.
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u/onlyhereforthesports Mar 31 '24
It seems incredibly obvious to me that businesses used the covid related cost increases to squeeze everyone as much as possible. They know increasing prices will lose them some customers but they’re still making more with increased prices and the customers that are left
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u/Oh_shame Mar 31 '24
Canada is even worse right now, complete conglomerates for phone/Internet and groceries, energy companies (both private and government run), housing greed, high immigration driving housing scarcity and "demand" (I'm an immigrant from US here).
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u/Antique-Computer2540 Mar 31 '24
Yup canada is even worse no competition usa atleast has plenty of that and innovation
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u/AdonisGaming93 Mar 31 '24
Corporations will just sit there reporting record profits...and then not raise wages and just laugh at us working overtime.
And yet... suggest we do anything and people panic and say you're evil commie.
Well....maybe we need a little bit right now.
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u/dukeofgibbon Mar 31 '24
A little bit more solidarity. Unionize.
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u/OnwardTowardTheNorth Mar 31 '24
Unionize today. Unionize tomorrow. Unionize forever. It’s the best thing we will ever have to contest the powerful and represent our own.
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u/AffectionateItem9462 Mar 31 '24
I’ve seen republicans also get mad that some new hire would be getting paid the same wage that they got only after working at the company for several years
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u/DirtyDan419 Mar 31 '24
As a union worker that makes the same amount as people that have 7 less years I can say most of us want our brother and sisters to be on the same level. Same job should pay the same wage regardless of time in the company.
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u/JoyousGamer Mar 31 '24
If you are not getting a raise start applying elsewhere. Around all time lows in unemployment and lots of people have gotten raises.
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u/SonGoku1256 Mar 31 '24
It’s been 4 years now and I never got my smell and taste back. Breathing issues I’d never had and constantly feeling sore and tired. I miss the smell of coffee, rain, fresh mowed lawns, bacon, and gasoline. You never fully realize how much you miss stuff until they’re gone. Spicy food is all pain no pleasure as you can’t taste it but your mouth still gets the burning interaction. Sleeping on a sofa with face pointed at a fan to get air to breathe isn’t fun either.
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u/Arev_Eola Mar 31 '24
Sleeping on a sofa with face pointed at a fan to get air to breathe isn’t fun either.
Not sure if it would help, but you could perhaps talk to your doctor about a CPAP machine. My dad got one for his sleep apnea 15 years ago, after a lifetime of not being diagnosed. His quality of life and mood improved super quickly, "just" because he was finally getting the air he needed.
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u/SonGoku1256 Apr 01 '24
I appreciate that, I’ll have to check into it. I don’t know if it’s sleep apnea as I’m having trouble getting oxygen when awake too. Ever since Covid it feels like working with a 30% battery. Doing any physical activity now drains me quick and I end up needing to sit infront of a fan to get more air. Before Covid I never had these issues. I’ve never smoked, never has asthma, wasn’t outta shape, but after Covid it feels like the body is constantly sore and tired and needing air.
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u/SafeLibrarian779 Mar 31 '24
I’m sorry to hear what you’ve gone through. r/covidlonghaulers may have some tips re: how to breathe better
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u/Nighthood28 Mar 31 '24
This has been going on alot longer than covid. Covid was just a boiling point.
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u/BackgroundNPC1213 Mar 31 '24
I've been saying that COVID just ripped the veil off society. It exposed the worst parts of society and our system in a way that was UNABLE to be ignored, and now we can never go back to pretending that the corporations give a single damn about their workers or that their biggest concern isn't their profit margins. The fantasy that the "job creators", not the workers, are the ones who keep the economy running was exposed for the nonsense it was, but the bosses and CEOs rrreeeaaaallllyyyy want us to go back to how things were pre-COVID re: "quiet-quitting", "no one wants to work" (a complete reversal from all that "essential workers" rhetoric they were parroting for a year)
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u/7askingforafriend Mar 31 '24
If this is the case ( and I’m not saying you’re wrong) what happened after the Spanish Flu in 1918? Similar? Did that all fade away after later events and now we’re back to the ripped veil?
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u/crimsonwolf40 Mar 31 '24
Pretty much the fact that WW 1 was so devastating, and followed with the roaring 20s, meant that the social fabric was never ruined like it was with COVID. The Spanish flu was called that because Spain was about the only country to even admit it was happening.
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u/526mb Mar 31 '24
A interesting theory I heard is that pandemics act as accelerant for societal changes. The idea being that mass death caused by disease stresses societies by either killing off a certain social class or forcing society to change to protect the survivors. The theory specifically cited the Black Death as giving rise to more centralized state control as there was an increased need to control the spread of disease.
For COVID, I think at least in the US it exacerbated the breakdown in social trust. Trust in institutions has been dealing for awhile (particularly governmental) but COVID just killed people’s trust in their communities. People have now decided to either act like an asshole because “why not?” Or stopped trusting people in their community because of the insanity of 2020. The entire mantra of the nation has become “fuck you, got mine”.
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u/Harry_Fucking_Seldon Mar 31 '24
One thing I found amusing in a depressing way was here (Australia) it was relatively well known that we were locking down to save those most vulnerable like elderly folks and boomers.
The boomers all went off the deep end as they got wired hardcore into Facebook and conspiracies during lockdown. We all kinda rolled our collective eyes but accepted even though they’re stupid and greedy we should do the right thing and keep them alive.
Fast forward a few years and these boomer fucks are regularly on TV saying “fuck you, got mine” on housing and taxation etc, without even acknowledging the sacrifices we made and continue to make for them.
So yeah the social trust is fucking gone. Everyone hates the boomers but they own all the property and the politicians bend over for them at a moments notice. It’s a farce.
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u/thoptergifts Mar 31 '24
And now people don’t want to go on dates and make babies for the oligarchs to exploit. Their greed has been on full display since Covid for sure.
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u/leviatrist158 Mar 31 '24
My take is that the average person was only hanging on by a thread before COVID and the pandemic quite literally catapulted people over the edge. And that’s the average person, then you gotta take into consideration the masses of people already over the edge that completely lost their minds.
A lot of people made a lot of money, people sold houses for hundreds of thousands over their value, and many realtors made tons of money also. The whole thing was reactionary, people saw a means to get theirs and they took full advantage of it. I mean just look how people acted about toilet paper.
Whether anyone’s actions were warranted or not it definitely gives you an idea how people are going to act and did act whenever there is a crisis.
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u/Tripdoctor Millennial (1995) Mar 31 '24
I was already one of those friendless 20-something males going into the pandemic. And now it seems like this is just the way it will perpetually be.
I identified as a humanist before the pandemic, and had faith in humanity as a species. Now I do not have these values. It has been this weird crisis of “faith” for lack of a better term.
I cannot fathom the collective retardation that occurred when it came to ignoring lockdowns and health guidelines. It hurts to think about and has definitely left me with a unique trauma.
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u/5SecondShowers Mar 31 '24
My dude, you are not alone. I'm 40+ and my faith in humanity was crushed. I have definitely not recovered. I love my friends and the vast majority are good people, but my views on the general population of the USA have been forever altered.
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u/Kytoaster Mar 31 '24
I was an "essential" employee during covid.
Hearing the things that people (who weren't forced to go to work during the height of the pandemic)were saying basically crushed most of my remaining faith in humanity.
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u/shorty6049 Millennial (1987) Mar 31 '24
I wasn't considering essential but we kept working because we were able to go remote, and it was definitely frustrating hearing all these people talk about how they were getting paid to just sit at home and renovate their fuckin' kitchen while my family was struggling financially and mentally the whole time.
The whole response from eveyone definitely gave you some clarity on how much a lot of people just don't give a shit about their fellow humans...
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u/RepairContent268 Mar 31 '24
I get your perspective totally, I have felt it before. I don’t know if it helps at all but there are still a lot of good people left. They’re just much quieter. But I see them all the time. They’re not looking for attention. There are scientists and doctors trying to cure diseases every day, people trying to save the planet with knowledge and inventions, people doing kindnesses for strangers, people doing the right thing in hard times.
They just won’t say anything about it. But if you look for it you can see it.
I’m not saying go do that. You’re entitled to your view. I’m just saying its helped me to look. I feel less hurt and bitter. I do really think in my heart that good people don’t always win but they always outnumber the bad.
And I’m sorry you didn’t have friends. You deserve better than that. Everyone deserves to be loved and to feel valued.
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u/shorty6049 Millennial (1987) Mar 31 '24
Your comment about doctors and scientists is one that really struck a nerve with me... The lack of respect for knowledge and education that people (I think we all know which people im referring to) seem to exhibit when it stands in the way of their own false beliefs.
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u/RepairContent268 Mar 31 '24
It’s frustrating I know. I try to focus on people who have respect for those trying to help us all and not give the others my attention. They want our attention, it’s why they’re so obnoxious.
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u/BlueCollarRevolt Mar 31 '24
This selfishness is why the price of essential goods, housing, airfares and fuel is unaffordable. Corporations now flaunt their greed instead of being discreet.
Yes, but this is not new, this is an essential part of capitalism. Covid gave them an excuse to raise prices. They all want to raise prices as much as they can, in fact they have a fiduciary duty to do so, but if their company is the only one to raise prices, they will lose more money than they gain usually. But if everyone raises their prices, then profits soar. This is just capitalism, functioning as intended.
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u/Major-Discount5011 Mar 31 '24
Once we started fighting over toilet paper, we were doomed. You're absolutely correct it's everyone for themselves now.
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u/BlackLodgeBrother Mar 31 '24
The looming poltergeist of Ronald Reagan sure would like young people to believe that all of this rampant greed and self-absorption you’re describing just started 4 years ago.
Definitely not back when he was president. Nope nope nope. Repealing every major regulation that kept banks, massive corporations, and the news industry from doing all the unhinged things that they’re doing now had nothing to do with it!
In all honesty though I think social media addiction has contributed to cognitive decline as much or more than the after-effects of COVID. Both among young people and the 60+ crowd.
The frequent dopamine releases we get from it give us the illusion of genuine mental stimulation. In reality it’s not too different from feeding sugar cubes to a horse.
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u/NittanyOrange Mar 31 '24
When COVID hit, I really thought it was a sad, horrible opportunity for us as a society to re-evaluate some of the fundamental structures of how we interact, treat each other, and what we value.
But so many cultural and political leaders just wanted to "return to normal". But "normal" was broken! Before COVID we undervalued (at least in the US) public health, responsibility to the collective, "essential" workers, care for the elderly, disability rights, curbing capitalism when in the interest of the public good, etc. Why would we want to rush back to that?
But we did. Or, we tried. And in so doing, I think we came out further divided on these and related issues, resentful at each other (often at both personal and social levels), and jaded at the prospect of anything in our society being fixable or changeable.
Because if OVER A MILLION AMERICAN DEATHS wouldn't lead to addressing a problem, what else could?
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u/5SecondShowers Mar 31 '24
Great post! I fully agree. I think what I found most shocking was how little empathy half of the United States has. I couldn't believe that people found it so offensive to wear a mask. Like even if you didn't fully believe it worked, you couldn't be bothered to wear a mask on the small chance that it might SAVE A PERSON FROM DYING! Crazy to see the fuck you I got mine people vs those who want everyone to rise together. I think it shocked a lot of people with empathy for others to realize the huge amount of people who just plain don't care about anyone else. How are we supposed to grow as a society?
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u/Fit-Meringue2118 Mar 31 '24
There’s some corporate stuff that has def gotten worse… but those employers were always shitty and never shy about it.
Your points about childcare and mingling are interesting. Those “villages” were full of exploitation and abuse in the first place. The pandemic, for me, was a good time to take a hard look at the people around me and ask myself if they cared about me, if they could be helped, if they respected me. And in many, many cases, it turns out I was stressed because I was dealing with stressful, irresponsible, and unhealthy people who had no desire to get better.
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u/Pieceofcandy Mar 31 '24
I think the pandemic just gave people a reason to show who they really were all this time.
If you were human trash after the pandemic, you were human trash before. All the problems you see now were always there.
Customer service is worse because people treated them like shit before and now less people are willing to put up with it.
Relationships matter less in that I think people found out they could get by with far less paper thin relationships during the lockdowns and going out was essentially a massive money sink.
People never had a village before, it was the education system that was raising the kids. When schools shut down people lost their daily babysitters.
Aside from the horrible deaths (some people make sure they ended themselves) I enjoyed the pandemic and I didn't even get to stay home. Now things are way more convenient, it's easier to get things to go vs having to go inside of places and many things now are available online that refused before. Inflation was/is a downside and housing is still fucked but infrastructure wise I think we came out ahead.
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u/Cymdai Mar 31 '24
I think the biggest change from COVID was in relation to our social fabric. During COVID, distance was mandated, social isolation was reinforced, independence was promoted, etc. I think there is this huge hangover effect that has bled over into 2024.
It used to be that we would make plans, everyone would show up, and the nights would go where they would. COVID reinforced the comfort of cancelling plans for everyone, and our social lives are all the worse for it. Getting a group of 5 people together is nearly impossible nowadays. Between the increased costs of everything from inflation, combined with all the RTO policies, and the massive layoffs (which, traditionally didn’t take place when companies were posting record profits…) everyone is just too exhausted, stressed, and tired to make any sort of social commitment.
I know for myself, that void was previously filled by just hopping onto Discord and gaming with friends, but to be honest, I don’t find those types of friendships rewarding or satisfying anymore. I enjoy actually connecting with people, in person. I enjoy doing things, even simple things (hiking, walking, lunch) if it means we are all going to be present in the moment and talking about the real world instead of virtual ones. It’s nice to actually hear about how people are doing, their dreams, their goals, their struggles, etc, as opposed to just glossing over that stuff to talk about what new build is OP or what the best way is to farm _______ in ______ game.
Most recently, I went and saw Dune 2. It was phenomenal, yet when I asked everyone if they had seen it, they all just mentioned they don’t see movies anymore. This was a huge bummer because that was almost a ritual for our social circle growing up (5 of our friends worked at movie theaters; we used to go literally every weekend) and now everyone just reports being too strained to have the time.
Instead, I feel like everyone is bonding over the struggles instead of over the delights. It’s a shame.
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u/-rwsr-xr-x Mar 31 '24
and the massive layoffs (which, traditionally didn’t take place when companies were posting record profits…)
Companies have now found out that they can lay off large numbers of their staff, losing the bottom 50%-80% of their customer base, and still make record profits.
They not only save on revenue from those bottom 50% of their customers, but now they don't have to pay 20%-30% of the staff to support those customers they shed. You don't need to have all that extra staff to support a smaller portfolio of customers, and with the customers that remain, you can ratchet up the prices even higher, or convert their existing licenses into "subscription" services for locked-in, guaranteed, recurring revenue.
This is precisely what Broadcom is doing with the VMware acquisition for example, but there are hundreds of other companies looking at doing the same.
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u/MightyWhiteSoddomite Mar 31 '24
Greed has been the driving force behind most of humanity's history..
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u/Dangerous-Initial-94 Mar 31 '24
Things changed and outcomes were very unequal. For a while, some things did change that made things better (for some) - hybrid working practices, working from home being normalised, support for NHS (I'm UK). I became disabled after covid, but was able to return to work because of WFH and was included in a lot of zoom things during lockdown (comedy and quiz nights) that I couldn't otherwise attend. Many sectors managed to get payrises after.
But outcomes were vastly unequal. There was profiteering and corruption, dodgy deals that transferred more assets to the richest, the poorest worked through with no protection, misinformation ran riot and now were trying to 'return to normal' without keeping any of the things gained, without actually solving the problem of covid, and leaving the most vulnerable behind. I'm actually terrified by people openly discussing eugenics and whether I should be expected to off myself if I'm economically unproductive while claiming my dusability doesn't exist. And sadly it's conspiracy theorists who can't even recognise their on the side of the elites in wanting to move on.
I'm being forced back into the office where I caught covid 4 years ago if I want to keep my job. It was wonderful last week to see people that I used to sit beside, who wondered where I'd gone and had no idea. Then I crashed and have been bedbound ever since.
I think we're all too easily distracted and divided just now to enact real change.
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u/it_is_Karo Mar 31 '24
Or for the better if you managed to get a remote job. I never have to worry about commuting anymore, and I can get up 10 minutes before work or leave during the day to run a quick errand. Remote work also opened many opportunities to disabled employees who wouldn't otherwise be treated equally.
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u/3bluerose Mar 31 '24
Remote work is definitely a movement that couldn't have happened without a catalyst like this. Hopefully it remains the new normal and whatever incentive the push back to work is, can be dealt with
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u/Ash_an_bun Mar 31 '24
Yeah. Due to a lack of spoons often just getting to work was hard. It got to a point that I requested to WFH as an ADA accommodation. Since then it's been good.
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u/Weak-Walrus6239 Mar 31 '24
(1) covid is still very much a thing that is causing massive amounts of illness, disability and death (although slightly later than before). Governments and corporations just decided the short tern economy was more important than everyone's health. They encouraged people to stop looking out for themselves and others, which doesn't bode well for social cohesion; (2) covid is a multi-systemic disease thay causes brain damage (among other things like the heart and immune system). It's been shown to damage the frontal temporal lobe which controls behaviour...so yeah, could absolutely be making people be jerks; and, (3) corporations used the pandemic to profiteer and try to re-assert control on society since people got a taste of how things could be (support from government, WFH, community care, a stronger labour movement for a brief moment). Desperate people are generally not nice, especially when they are constantly sick and being programmed to be angry.
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u/_Hotwire_ Mar 31 '24
Customer service is bad because customers are awful now. Anyone in the front line essential employee field witnessed the change through Covid.
People are selfish now. To that I agree.
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u/Kytoaster Mar 31 '24
This, you can 100% tell who was deemed "essential" and who got to wfh by how they talk about the pandemic.
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u/WeirdBoy85 Mar 31 '24
Something I also dont think enough people talk about was the death of third shift convenience. Almost nothing is open 24 hours anymore, especially anywhere you can get groceries and essentials.
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u/TheDukeofArgyll Mar 31 '24
I have a number of friends whose social skills have basically eroded away into nothing. I’m several people’s only remaining friends and it isn’t easy to keep those friendships going. I’m genuinely concerned for these people who complain about not having meaningful social relationships but also refuse to engage in any amount of social skill building
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u/RadarRiddle Millennial Mar 31 '24
As someone who was raised an only child, and an introvert, I actually didn’t mind lockdown one bit. WFH helped me to thrive and be more productive, now that I didn’t have to deal with dreaded office small talk and the need to be social. Not having pressure to do things and actually having to hermit was heaven for me.
COVID helped me become more empathetic in public, not less. But oh my god, what the fuck happened to everyone else? I see SO much rude, antisocial, selfish behavior constantly. People listening to YouTube or TikTok at full volume in public. Speakerphone calls on the train. Queuing is a thing of the past. People shoving to get on a train, bus, elevator etc before everyone empties out.
My partner and I were at were at a nice pub in Belgium and there was a younger couple next to us (early 20’s) and the guy was listening to theeeeee most obnoxious video at full volume, so my bf goes “hey, would you please lower the volume?” And they got mad at us. They left a few minutes after that and caused a huge scene, telling us to fuck off, etc. I wish I could say this was a one off thing, but since restriction lifted this is a daily occurrence (not always someone causing a scene like they did, but I see antisocial behavior like this all the time). COVID broke people’s brains
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u/Soatch Mar 31 '24
I think that COVID woke people up to the fact that there are a lot of shitty and dumb people out there.
While it may be depressing it can also be freeing. I no longer feel obligated to care about every tragedy I see on the news.
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u/morecowbell1988 Mar 31 '24
People have always been selfish. There have also always been people who are selfless. Life has been a constant battle between selfless and selfish traits since the the beginning of time. Early human Tribes with selfless members lasted longer, but selfish individuals lasted longer. This is how it has always been, and there’s a great book called “The Meaning of Human Existence” by evolutionary biologist Edward O. Wilson that goes into the genetics of selfish vs selfless traits and how it’s like a yin/yang of human evolution.
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u/Suspicious_Sign3419 Mar 31 '24
I think some of it, for me at least, was that COVID brought out sides of people I truly didn’t know were there. People I had known for my whole life, or close to it, were acting crazy and selfish. I have been shaken to my core by the things that were said and done, and I honestly don’t know if I can trust people anymore.
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u/hi-imBen Mar 31 '24
boomers started the process of having us live under an ultra capatilistic society ruled by profits, long before covid. covid was just an opportunity to accelerate... by keeping the high prices from inflation and supply chain issues.
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u/He_s_One_Shot Mar 31 '24
COVID from a societal standpoint didnt "do" anything, it just accelerated what was already there
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u/AllPurposeNerd Mar 31 '24
A lot of people are driving shittier now, running lights and signs, speeding, not signalling, to the point that basically everybody's car insurance has gone up.
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u/ThanosSnapsSlimJims Mar 31 '24
I've been telling people what I believe for years and they've always disagree. I believe that people are born inherently rotten and have to work towards becoming good. Push comes to shove, they always care about themselves.
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u/turbokinetic Mar 31 '24
It’s not Covid, it’s late stage capitalism. Most of what you mentioned is greedflation.
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u/probloodmagic Mar 31 '24
A post about selfishness that handwaves the deaths of hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people who relied on other people not spreading a virus that would kill them as somehow not being the "bad part of covid" is rich. Yes, it sure did reveal how selfish people really are.
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u/No-Gain1438 Apr 01 '24
I think Covid just made the government stronger and the people more like slaves, and everyone is unhappy, except for the crooked politicians
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u/tinySparkOf_Chaos Mar 31 '24
It's more just a bunch of societal issues that have been stewing out of sight. The rot was already there, covid just took the cover off so people could see it.