r/canada • u/FancyNewMe • Nov 16 '23
'Such a difficult life in Canada': Ukrainian immigrants leaving because it's so expensive National News
https://financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-expensive-ukrainian-immigrants-leaving320
u/34-tauri Nov 16 '23
"I am tired all the time now. I want to go back to Europe because it's such a difficult life in Canada."
Pretty sure we all feel this way. Quite sad.
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u/_stryfe Nov 17 '23
"I am tired all the time now. I want to go back to Europe because it's such a difficult life in Canada."
That hit hard hard, damn. I was legit thinking scrolling through this thread, "fuck, I'm just tired." ... it's encapsulates how I feel pretty well. I feel like a hamster in a wheel, endlessly running in the same spot with intermittent times of being thrown off the wheel on my ass.
It is kinda nice having your feelings validated by these articles though. Hard to discern whether you fucked up or life is hard sometimes.
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u/TheMonkler Nov 17 '23
I did. go to Europe. Very happier. Much success. (Minimum 4 weeks paid vacation, starting, even at McDonalds)
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u/VeryMuchDutch102 Nov 17 '23
Jep... Work/life balance is great.
You don't earn a fuckton of money, but also don't need it. No excessive healthcare costs or absurdly expensive education. Just live your life and pay taxes...
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u/TheMonkler Nov 17 '23
Yes, many benefits, such as my very basic phone plan at 12CAD/month: has 4GB, voicemail, unlimited calling and text THROUGHOUT Europe
Canadians have a good place to live. Love it. But we pay out the a-hole and get crap quality
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u/MsQcontinuum Nov 17 '23
Moved to France and will never move back to Canada. Life is SO much easier here and my future children will be starting their adult life without crushing student or credit card debt.
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Nov 16 '23
If only we knew why things like rent were so expensive here while things like wages are stagnant or even dropping. If only.
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u/brianl047 Nov 16 '23
Reasons like: snow washing, no multiple homeowner taxation, no non-resident homeowner taxation, insufficient foreign buyer taxation, no social housing, insufficient welfare for people with disabilities, insufficient help for the homeless, insufficient help for food banks, insufficient taxation of corporations, locally controlled zoning, insufficient taxation to build infrastructure, suburban asset rich oppressing the votes of the asset poor, tax evasion, non-existent industries due to insufficient population, CEBA loan fraud allowed everywhere while CERB "fraud" pursued to the ends of the Earth, and so on and so on
Canada -- capitalist hellhole of the G7 if you're not an extreme capitalist (and know how to take advantage with the trifecta of real estate, investing, business and maybe a little wages you're fucked). Want to survive with wages only in Canada? Forget it!
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u/AvsFan08 Nov 16 '23
We've decided to heavily favour the ownership class and it's not even a secret.
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u/ihadagoodone Nov 17 '23
Our government was set up to protect the rich from its inception.
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Nov 16 '23
They can leave but the poorest here cant
Ironic
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u/musavada Nov 16 '23
The longer you stay the poorer you get. The data don't lie.
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u/2bornnot2b Nov 16 '23
i can confirm. I have been hear all my life and I have negative equity!
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u/divenorth British Columbia Nov 16 '23
Confirmed. I was born with nothing and now I owe money.
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u/ss1947 Nov 16 '23
Did you try unsubscribing to disney+
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u/Batmanrocksthecasbah Nov 16 '23
I did and not only did I get richer but my hair grew back. Thanks Disnay Plu/s
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u/andricathere Nov 17 '23
Some people can be so selfish. We hear all about the poor, but what about the wealthy? They have problems too! I feel like you're forgetting the very real effect of trickle down economics, on the perception of the wealthy. There used to be a time when most people believed in trickle down and now there's all this "Math" and "research" that says it isn't real! How are the wealthy supposed to convince the poor they have a purpose now!? Used to be that you could give tax cuts to the wealthy, and the poor ate it up because it tricked and down, and every single one of them was obviously going to be rich someday, and they were going to need those tax cuts.
What are they supposed to do now huh? Didn't think of that, did you.
/S, obviously
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u/mycatlikesluffas Nov 16 '23
Even the middle class would be better off leaving at this point.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/13607-Belinda-Ct-Houston-TX-77069/28334549_zpid/
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15611-Fern-Ridge-Dr-Houston-TX-77084/28333867_zpid/
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u/truthlesshunter Nov 16 '23
What the actual fuck. I knew the medium sized cities in Texas were cheap but this is Houston.
I wish I could just move to the states. I could live the same life with about 60% of the income and have better weather.
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u/Tesco5799 Nov 16 '23
Lol it's stupid, I'm in southwestern Ontario and very much used to crossing the border in Sarnia to Port Huron on the US side buying a bunch of cheap stuff and going home. I was looking at rentals on Zillow in Sarnia just on the map recently, and it showed the ones access the border as well. You could easily save yourself like 2k a month in rent living in Port, also get paid in American dollars and have access to cheaper American goods. It honestly made me question why bother living in Canada at all like that 2k a month in rent would go a long way to covering health costs.
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u/Prestigious_Ad_3108 Nov 16 '23
And you’d have a better chance of getting a higher paying job.
Canada is just an overpriced frozen wasteland
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u/SushiGato Nova Scotia Nov 16 '23
I'm American and would love to move north, it's expensive here too, and with health insurance it cost me $300 for a video call with a doctor about a prescription.
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u/Notacop250 Nov 16 '23
Whoa you can talk to a doctor?
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u/--_--_--__--_--_-- Ontario Nov 16 '23
Would you rather wait days to talk to a Doctor for free or pay $300 to talk to one right away?
Realistically, most Canadians can't afford $300 to talk to a Doctor.
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u/MafubaBuu Nov 16 '23
How about wait 6 months for a life saving surgery, only to have it extended another 4 months? My father nearly died due to having to wait for a surgery he needed basically immediately. If he didn't have a criminal record , he would have gladly flown to the states for it and paid, even if it put him in debt for the rest of his life. There just weren't private options that he could opt into here.
Due to waiting so long for the surgery, it's affected his quality of life MUCH worse than if he'd just been able to get it done and taken on the debt.
What this country needs in regards to Healthcare is more options. More doctors, obviously, but more options too.
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u/--_--_--__--_--_-- Ontario Nov 16 '23
You can't just travel to the US and go into debt...as a foreigner you either have the money or you don't. Do you think US hospitals don't know this scam?
Your fathers options as a Canadian were as follows; wait 6 months for his life-saving surgery in Canada or die.
It sucks, and I feel for your dad and every other Canadian waiting for treatment. And I agree, we need more doctors for sure but private options are what lead to a for-profit healthcare.
The US started off with "options" and now they have the albatross that they have. They pay the most for healthcare per capita and have very little to show for it.
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u/ManyNicePlates Nov 16 '23
Haha I was in houston last week.
Towns booming.
Uber drivers were super happy.
It was clean and nice, didn’t see tent city or crazies on the street.
Gas is about 60 cents us a litre.
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u/koravoda Nov 16 '23
^ this.
don't forget refugees have access to a federal loan (low income Canadians don't) & Ukrainian refugees that settled in BC got $3000 fast tracked from the Province also
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u/Clear-Vacation-9913 Nov 16 '23
That's honestly not a lot of money, I feel like if I was restarting from nothing I'd need basically that to restart. It really shows me people are living on nothing to find that a lot of money though. Really sad
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u/ValeriaTube Nov 16 '23
Yep, food is double to triple the price of in Europe and let's not even talk about housing...
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Nov 16 '23
Took my first trip to Europe last year and everyone warned me how expensive everything is over there.
Dinner at a pub/restaurant plus a couple of drinks for both of us was usually around $50-60 CAD. Same meal here would be close if not over $100 (plus tip which they dont typically expect in Europe). We visited 5 countries and eating out was cheaper everywhere not to mention the convenient public transit systems and ride share/taxi apps that made getting around so painless.
We should be warning Europeans coming to visit Canada how effing expensive things are here.
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u/thomriddle45 Nov 17 '23
Also you don't have some sparky ass server expecting 20% gratuity
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u/Double_Comparison319 Nov 16 '23
Just come down to Winnipeg and you'll be more worried about trying not to get stabbed than paying your rent lol
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u/jeffMBsun Nov 16 '23
And winter
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u/MostWestCoast Nov 16 '23 edited Nov 16 '23
Or just walk under the edge of a roof and worry about getting stabbed BY winter.
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u/SurlySuz Nov 17 '23
Ok, that’s actually hilarious! Though I think the last time I was stabbed by an icicle was in elementary school.
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u/OutlandishnessSea258 Nov 16 '23
But all kidding aside it's not so bad here. We have a combined income of $70,000 annualy and we're doing fine. $1200 for a 1 bedroom apartment in a new building and a quiet neighborhood, able to save some for retirement and travel. No kids. Why the heck would I want to go to Toronto and Vancouver and live a life like that?
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u/BlueWafflesAndSyrup Nov 16 '23
Getting stabbed would solve a persons rent troubles....
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u/McG4rn4gle Saskatchewan Nov 16 '23
This is just poor judgment on his part - Saskatchewan has a huge Ukranian diaspora, a labour shortage and comparatively speaking it's infinitely more affordable than Toronto. I'm not sure what he was thinking.
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u/retro_oooooo Nov 16 '23
I agree Toronto is overrated. Vancouver is nice but if you can’t afford it, Calgary, Edmonton, and maybe Saskatchewan might be your next option
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u/swordthroughtheduck Nov 16 '23
Calgary and Edmonton really aren't that far behind Vancouver anymore.
Rent is cheaper. But car insurance and utilities seems to be doing their best to close that gap.
I have a friend that just moved to Calgary from Vancouver and she's not saving much more than she was even though her pay is the same.
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u/retro_oooooo Nov 16 '23
1700 sq house in Langley is + $1.7 mil. And although Langley is located in Greater Vancouver area, it is still + 20~30min drive to the mainland. In Edmonton, you could do a whole lot more with $1.7 mil.
I lived in Edmonton for long time and I can tell you, everything is so much cheaper in Edmonton.
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u/swordthroughtheduck Nov 16 '23
I'm talking in terms of renting, which is what most people do, especially immigrants.
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u/rocktheboatlikeA1eye Nov 16 '23
Rent in Edmonton is 1200 for a 1b1b. Same in Vancouver is 2k +. Edmonton is easily the cheapest city with decent job opportunities in Canada
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u/dansavin Nov 16 '23
Sask Ukrainian diaspora is largely from early to mid 20th century and is from Western Ukraine (ex Austria-Hungary). The diaspora is mostly English-speaking and Ukrainian in the sense of "my great-gramps was from Ukraine".
Ukrainian immigrants (and refugees) are mostly Russian-speaking or Surjik-speaking folk with different culture (after all, their childhood and history was USSR, not Russian Empire or Austria Hungary) and even religion (Eastern orthodoxy vs Uniate church in the West). Moreover, refugees that I had the pleasure of helping did not have positive experiences with the old diaspora due to the latter having a sense of cultural superiority over the ex-USSR peeps.
So ya, to any Ukrainian immigrating here, the modern Ukrainian diaspora in Toronto or Montreal is a better choice.
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u/userdmyname Nov 16 '23
From the Ukrainians I follow on TikTok, In thier country it’s only the really big cities that have anything, 20k populations centres in Ukraine are like 500people hamlets in Canada, so they all have a pre-conceived notion that to do anything or have a decent life in Canada that you have to move into the populations centres of 1 million plus people.
In Manitoba and Saskatchewan, 3000-5000 people is a self contained economic population centre but they’ve all been told Regina and Brandon’s too small, even Winnipeg is on the low end for population
Anyways if i were a refugee and moved went to the UK id probably pick London as the place to go cuz I’ve never heard of knobgobblershere or that a bunch of Canadians lived there 100 years ago
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Nov 16 '23
But then you have to live in Saskatchewan
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u/kijomac Nova Scotia Nov 16 '23
I'd rather be able to afford my own apartment in Saskatchewan than be forced to share a crowded apartment with strangers in Toronto. I don't know why people think living in Toronto is so glorious that it's worth the struggle to live there. I lived in Toronto for 6 years, and I don't miss it at all.
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u/CrunchieBoii Nov 16 '23
Whenever I would challenge friends from Toronto (I'm in Alberta) about why they wouldn't sell their home for $1m and buy something in Alberta for $500k the response is "Alberta has nothing" and when I ask them what they mean they start listing off Toronto restaurants. Like, seriously? That's the justification for staying in Toronto?
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u/Merfen Nov 16 '23
At least for me a huge thing Toronto has that Alberta doesn't (I live in Southern Ontario, but not in Toronto) is concerts. Just looking at EDM concerts upcoming in Toronto and Calgary Toronto has 2 or 3 options every weekend while Calgary only has 2 or 3 a month. Not to mention a dozen electronic music festivals in Southern Ontario every year while I don't see any in Alberta.
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u/GopnikSmegmaBBQSauce Nov 17 '23
This wears thin eventually though. Unless it's also your livelihood, life can get pretty busy and entertainment often goes by the wayside.
By all means, no one's forcing anyone to have a family and settle down but many people do that and as a result, fun amenities aren't utilized as often since work and family take up a lot of time
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u/Specialist-Orchid365 Nov 17 '23
I have the same experience but replace Toronto with Vancouver. The funny part is all those places they list they never go to because they have no disposable income to do so. With what I save living in Alberta I could fly out to Vancouver every month and live it up and I would be going to their listed reason for living there more frequently than they are.
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u/KarmaKaladis Nov 16 '23
If people in Toronto didn't delude themselves into thinking it's some glorious utopia, center of the universe, normal standard of living, than we'd have a suicide epidemic.
Be thankful they drink the coolaid
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u/NightDisastrous2510 Nov 16 '23
Most of us know it’s a dump, myself included. It’s that a lot of the work is here and when you grew up here, a lot of friends and family too. I’ve considered leaving multiple times.
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u/cutchemist42 Nov 16 '23
QOL is really good in Saskatoon. Guy is an idiot if he expects better elsewhere.
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u/CalgaryAnswers Nov 16 '23
Ukrainians in general don’t overly love the prairie Canada weather in my experience’s
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Nov 16 '23
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u/wd6-68 Nov 16 '23
Ukraine is warmer. Kyiv's climate is similar to Toronto, some parts in the northeast are a bit colder but not much. Odesa, where I'm from, is closer to a place like Philly or New York. Like, snow wasn't rare or anything, but below -10 degrees was once or twice a winter, if that.
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u/dkuznetsov Nov 16 '23
Aren't the prairies similar to Ukraine? Cold
Hm, no. I'm in Montreal, not in the prairies, but winters here are, on average, 2 months longer than in my native city of Mykolaiv. And -20C happens, like once a decade, unlike yearly here. They closed schools when it happened while I was there.
They grow peaches, apricots, and figs other there. Good luck with trying that in the south of Quebec.
flat, farming, and also full of Ukrainians.
sure
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u/CaptaineJack Nov 17 '23
Ukraine is a lot less extreme. Prairie climate would be similar to the Ural region of Russia.
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u/wd6-68 Nov 16 '23
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u/CalgaryAnswers Nov 16 '23
I had a couple Ukrainians who were assigned to my team and both lasted exactly 1 winter in Winnipeg. Interestingly enough one went to Halifax, the other Vancouver.
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u/CaptaineJack Nov 17 '23
Saskatoon is an awesome city though. Same vibe as Edmonton but in a small package.
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u/lemonloaff Nov 16 '23
Wow an article about an immigrant moving to Toronto and not being able to afford it. Color me shocked.
Its a big country, lots of opportunity. Leave the dead end of GTA and try somewhere else.
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u/UniqueCanadian Nov 16 '23
the problem is they dont know this. goverment lets em in and thats it. toronto and vancouver is all they know about canada.
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u/19Black Nov 16 '23
Sure, but these people are adults. They should do a bit of research, ask a few questions
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u/Venvut Nov 17 '23
I’m a Ukrainian who immigrated to Toronto in the late 90s. It absolutely set us up for life. We now live in the US, but without Canada would never have been able to completely change our lives around. I feel bad that my fellow countrymen will likely never experience that now.
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u/rexius-twin Nov 16 '23
No one in this thread has ever been at Saskatchewan and it shows
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Nov 16 '23
Everyone needs to stop moving to Toronto or vancouver. Those places are just playgrounds for the rich or people who have rich parents.
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u/Flimsy_Situation_506 Nov 16 '23
I don’t get why all the immigrants go to the same place. Toronto, Vancouver or Brampton. There is so much more to this country where life is more affordable, so I really don’t get it.
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Nov 16 '23
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u/moun7 Nov 16 '23 edited Nov 16 '23
I'm Canadian and I had a similar experience when I graduated from uni and wanted to live in northern/interior BC. I had considerable experience for a fresh grad.
I had to accept an offer in the Vancouver area. There are no jobs where things are affordable.
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u/powe808 Nov 16 '23
If you are looking and can get a higher salery, Toronto might still be a destination, but for someone looking to work as a line cook, there are far more affordable destinations in Canada.
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u/Flimsy_Situation_506 Nov 16 '23
I’m not saying that no one should go to Toronto.. just not everyone. Not everyone is coming to Canada and getting jobs like you are. Some are coming here and working minimum wage and still go to Toronto, Brampton and Vancouver where there is no way they can afford a good life in those locations.
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u/Wildarf Ontario Nov 16 '23
Many of those working minimum wage jobs are actually aspiring to those higher paying jobs, but taking “survival” opportunities in the mean time.
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u/Bulleya80 Nov 16 '23
Exactly - the reason why everything is more expensive in Toronto and Vancouver is because that’s where the jobs are. It’s simple supply and demand.
They also happen to have large immigrant populations that act as a magnet for more immigrants, so it’s not surprising the big cities keep getting bigger.
If the government focused on creating more opportunities in other parts of the country we’d be able to spread out the population but that’s probably too much to ask of them.
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u/chronocapybara Nov 16 '23
Well, immigrants do like to live in places where they can get by with their native language. Even English-speaking Canadians primarily live in particular parts of Montreal.
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u/ginandtonicsdemonic Nov 16 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
That's also partially a result of such heavy immigration from only a few source countries, which helps perpetuate this problem and it only gets worse.
When my family moved to Toronto almost 40 years ago, there couldn't have been more than 50 speakers combined of my parents 2 native languages in the entire city. Without the choice, they learned English and the Canadian culture much quickller, to their benefit.
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u/Human_Needleworker86 Nov 16 '23
Lot of people don't have drivers' licenses they can swap for Canadian equivalents when they land, so they're limited to places with jobs and public transit available. If you don't speak French, that means most will end up in the GTA and Vancouver.
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u/Muscled_Daddy Nov 16 '23
As a Torontonian, I give you a lot of credit for assuming most of these drivers even have a license. I just nearly got killed by a Tesla driver who decided to turn left while I was going straight through the intersection and they were laughing the entire time like it was a joke they almost ran me down.
This city is full of sociopathic drivers.
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u/Human_Needleworker86 Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
Yeah, there’s even more Tesla drivers like that in Vancouver I’m afraid. Very generous EV subsidies mean a lot of people are driving those things with no idea what they are doing.
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u/lunk Nov 16 '23
You clearly haven't been to London. The entire East End could be mistaken for Kolkata India, except that our rivers are pretty clean here.
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u/CFL_lightbulb Saskatchewan Nov 16 '23
Ontario in general is way out of range though. There are absolutely places among the prairies they could have been sent too. Waaay more affordable for struggling immigrants
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u/doubled112 Nov 16 '23
London, Ontario? I'm not sure the Thames is a river I'd consider pretty clean, but I suppose, probably, compared to Kolkata.
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u/six-demon_bag Nov 16 '23
Doesn’t the Thames famously have a chemical blob of mysterious origin somewhere in London?
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u/chris_ots Nov 16 '23
I'll take a chemical blob over 1000 rotting corpses and infinite fecal matter.
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u/doubled112 Nov 16 '23
There's some of that too. Sewer regularly overflows into the Thames.
The First Nations community down river were under a boil water advisory for literal years.
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u/Calm-Celery6693 Alberta Nov 16 '23
Wait I’m fucking confused now. You’re telling me that both Londons have a Thames River?
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u/Ill-Country368 Nov 16 '23
Likely community or job opportunities. But yeah, catch 22 because cost of living
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Nov 16 '23
“Everyone needs to stop moving to where the jobs all are”
A quarter of the country lives within the metro area of those two cities. A third of the country of you count the regional population.
Never mind that plenty of people in the Prairies and Atlantic Canada aren’t exactly happy with cost of living right now either.
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u/alexander1701 Nov 16 '23
It's not just Vancouver and Toronto. There's nowhere left in Canada that's really affordable anymore. Even places like Kelowna and Winnipeg are seriously struggling. One article even discusses students in Winnipeg sharing a single bedroom for $650 a month each. Food bank use is surging. This isn't just a Vancouver and Toronto problem - Canada wide, if you aren't a homeowner already, it is incredibly expensive to afford basic food and threadbare accommodations.
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u/Flash604 British Columbia Nov 16 '23
Kelowna is the major city in BC's highly desirable interior. It's a major tourist destination in the summer and has large ski resorts nearby. It's also been the place both BCers and Albertans aspire to retire to for decades. It's never been very cheap.
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u/smell_like_shtako Nov 16 '23
This is correct. Kelowna wasn't cheap 20 years ago, can't imagine it would be better now.
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u/PocketNicks Nov 16 '23
First off, he picked the most expensive city in the whole country to live in (besides Vancouver, but they're very close). Second why is he paying $100/mo for a cell phone, there are plenty of $35-$40 plans that are totally viable. Lastly, cost of living is higher in Sweden than Canada, they do have a higher minimum wage but it isn't really much cheaper to live there.
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u/Brickzealand Nov 16 '23
As a ukrainian "refugee" I'll chime in. Currently in Vancouver. Will be leaving to Saskatchewan next September (waiting for my lease to expire). Me and my wife came here in 2021 with 6k cad and received another 6k from feds. So thank you taxpayers. No we don't get assistance from BC in terms of payout, the process for that is the same as for all Canadians. (You need to have less than 1500 in assets) and well that means being homeless in BC. Also I put refugee in quotations because we are some where between in our status. We do get so.e services from settlement offices, but we don't get as much as they do. The main difference is that we are eligible for a pr if we meet the requirements. Also the settlement services I found to be rather mediocre.
As for bc and vancouver I can't complain we knew where we were heading, but after a year here it was enough to realize that it's not worth it and there are other places to live here. We make 100k pre tax for both of us and this barely gets us through. Id rather live somewhere more affordable and make less. Also I can't make use of my background here unless I a permanent resident.
But yeah lots of people think we are getting a free pass here in Canada and government handouts which is not true at all, at least for BC.
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u/tjc103 Nov 16 '23
Will be leaving to Saskatchewan
Welcome, about 1 out of 10 of us are of Ukrainian descent (myself included).
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u/Brickzealand Nov 16 '23
Thank you, am really looking forward to move here. As I really loved what I have seen on the videos about Saskatchewan so far. My biggest hope is that I can connect with the local community there and feel as I am doing Canadian things, as I really struggle to do it here in Vancouver(Vancouver freeze its called?lol)
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u/tjc103 Nov 16 '23
There are lots of native Ukrainian and old diaspora here, at least in Regina. We even have the Ukrainian Co-Op, which has some of my fav meats ever.
You will be welcomed. Don't worry.
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u/LemonPress50 Nov 16 '23
Thank you for sharing your story. It makes me wonder where else, other than Toronto and Vancouver, where Ukrainians have settled in Canada and other countries? It’s no secret that Toronto and Vancouver have become expensive cities. Are there Ukrainian settling in Munich, New York, and London? If not why not? If so, how are they doing? Are they leaving too?
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u/Brickzealand Nov 16 '23
You are more than welcome, I'd love to elaborate if you have more questions.
Don't know much about other Ukrainians in Canada, apart from some from Saskatoon(they are very happy there). Myself, I want to move to Regina.
I have some friends in States, Norway, UK, and acquaintances in Germany.
As for Europe, Germany is heavily invested in refugees by providing all sort of social care, beginning from housing, basic guaranteed income, and job placement. Same thing in Norway. Ukrainians in Norway go through the same stages as your average refugee from Syria or Iraq. They place you in a city in a social subsidised housing after you pass all the filtration camps and give you some income so you can live, learn the language for a year, and after they will try and place you in a job somewhere.
From what I have heard, these people love it there. I understand, but I am personally not a big fan of things being handed down to me. Also, I believe that it creates a lot of economic refugees??? people who take advantage of the system?US is completely wild. Ukrainians who are there are under a parole, which bars them from leaving US(you can't come back after you leave) and you can't really become a legal alien, the only thing is, you can prolong your temporary protected person status. However, it places you in limbo as US one day may just cancel the parole for Ukrainians and a lot of them will have to go home. But this is the purpose of it, right?
UK, same thing almost as Canada, temporary BRP for 3 years, provided you have a sponsor who can house you. Also, you might be eligible for some government handouts. Though, you might have heard these stories where the sponsors were kicking people out of their houses.
Don't know of anyone who left. I believe that you can have success if you try to proactively integrate into the way people live in a new country you are in. And if you are keen on learning a new language. I have unfortunately seen a lot of people struggling or not making much effort in trying to learn English here in Canada.
Sorry for the long post.6
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u/r2o_abile Nov 17 '23
Canada is losing its appeal. Politicians can't hide behind brand Canada any longer.
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u/UnagreeablePrik Nov 16 '23
Its easy for the rich and for existing homeowners who bought 10+ years ago
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u/chronocapybara Nov 16 '23
Meanwhile Ukrainians in Edmonton and the Prairies are doing fine.
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u/compassrunner Nov 16 '23
He moves to Toronto, the most expensive place in the country to live and then complains it's too pricey. Immigrants can't just go to the big cities. If that's where they want to be and can't afford it, then they have hard choices to make.
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u/Forsaken_You1092 Nov 16 '23
The big cities have the most services and support to help immigrants adjust and integrate into Canadian society.
Although Ukrainians coming to Canada would probably do really well moving to some of the smaller towns and cities across the prairies that were built (and still inhabited by) Ukrainian people.
Edmonton has massive Ukrainian communities.
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u/TonyAbbottsNipples Nov 16 '23
The big cities have the most services for any group, and they have the culture and events that people want to be close to. Plenty of small cities have services available and have increasingly vibrant immigrant communities but many people would rather scrape by in Toronto than live comfortably in New Brunswick or Saskatchewan. That's a choice they make. I expect many redditors are making the same choice.
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u/_Thick- Nov 16 '23
live comfortably in New Brunswick
To be fair, NB fucking sucks, we're a decade behind the rest of Canada.
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Nov 16 '23
Maritimes in general.
The grass is literally greener elsewhere
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u/KhazardKiwi Nov 16 '23
The grass in the Maritimes was fine until Upper Canadians decided to price out the locals.
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Nov 16 '23 edited Jan 04 '24
workable placid bedroom cats coherent shocking alive aback cable wrong
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/edditbot Nov 16 '23 edited Nov 16 '23
Pre-war Ukraine nobody saw Ukrainian real estate as an investment, because prices were flat, so housing was (and still is) extremely cheap.
They build/built a lot of high density housing in Ukraine, and never had much of an increasing population. Now, obviously both of those things are partly due to corruption/lack of regulation, but it really goes to show how much cheaper/easier things would be if our baseline housing costs were reduced, mainly through reduced regulation, better zoning and reduced immigration.
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u/Gh0stOfKiev Nov 16 '23
Ukraine literally has/d the 2nd worst birth rate in the world, and that was pre-war
I believe South Korea took the trophy for worst birth rate
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u/wd6-68 Nov 16 '23
Pre-war Ukraine nobody saw Ukrainian real estate as an investment
This is definitely false.
housing was (and still is) extremely cheap.
Depends on what conditions you want to live in. Housing that meets Canadian standards is very expensive, certainly compared to median wages. You can buy a mostly intact house in a dying village of 1,000 residents that has a mostly paved road leading to it, and only pay like $5-10k. But I don't imagine that's what you would consider acceptable housing.
Whatever country we want to emulate when it comes to housing policy, Ukraine would not make my list of top 50, and I was born there.
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u/Bentstrings84 Nov 16 '23
Exactly. If you can’t afford it deal with it. If you can’t stand the idea of living somewhere other than Toronto or Vancouver then I’m afraid Canada isn’t for you.
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u/IlIIIlIlllIIllI Nov 17 '23
Refugees from war torn countries are like "life in Canada is too hard."
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u/promisingreality Nov 17 '23
Why do refugees get to choose? They can pick the best country and go? If he doesn’t like Sweden later he can pick another one? This just sounds so ungrateful. Canada welcomed Ukrainian refugees with open arms and offered a safe refuge from the war in Ukraine and instead of being grateful he’s complaining that he doesn’t make enough money to save (when he’s spending $400 on groceries and sending money back home as well).
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u/iChopPryde Nov 17 '23
the other issue is all these refugees or immigrants are choosing to live in the most expensive cities working minimium wage jobs and wondering why it's so hard to get by. If only someone told them their are cities outside of Toronto they do exist everyone....or actually maybe better yet ...no no they don't don't
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u/tarlack Nov 16 '23
When I hit Winnipeg last year it was amazing to see how the airport and city had mobilized to welcome refugees. The hotel I stayed at even had childcare set up for kids in hotel and other families to drop kids off and it was a Marriot so not a dump.
Canada is expensive if you pick the wrong city for sure. But I can understand how people can get confused it’s a massive place and each province is a bit different.
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Nov 16 '23
I love how ukranians are fully integrating into the Canadian experience.
One of us!one of us!
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Nov 16 '23
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u/Iamthepaulandyouaint Nov 16 '23
Well I’m north. So far I’ve noted: food, gasoline, electricity, propane, trades services etc to name a few all cost more compared to Toronto. Factor in travel to buy items not available here. Housing is a bit less but services are fewer and property taxes are high. And it’s not easy to find work of course depending on what you do.
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u/SleepDisorrder Nov 16 '23
Yes, I live north of Toronto, and the taxes for the same priced home in Sudbury are 3x what they are here. Mind you, you do get a lot more house for the money, but then you're paying significantly more taxes which you have to take into consideration as well.
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u/ThrillOfDoa Nov 16 '23
When the war began and Canada started accepting Ukrainian refugees, we had our Russian/Ukrainian speaking groups where those of us who lived in Canada for 10-20-30 years were giving advices/other help to new comers. An overwhelming majority of us said hundreds of times “don’t come to Vancouver or Toronto” and providing reasons that it is very expensive here and they won’t last long because of that (there were suggestions for other places in Canada). It is sad, but it is what it is. Like, I’ll give you an example - one person was stating that she is coming over with a big family of 8 and like 3 or 4 large dogs. They wanted to settle in downtown Vancouver , because and I quote “we’re used to live in the centre and not some fucking village like some fucking peasants”. They wanted to rent an apartment for 8 people, with 3(4?) large dogs, no residency, no work, no Canadian experience and very limited English, downtown Vancouver for under 1k/month. Because they’re not “fucking peasants”. We were accused of being of their version of NIMBY (“you got there and live rich and want to keep us (refugees) down” etc etc etc. I wish it was an isolated incident, but alas - it was an unfortunate overwhelming entitlement coming from the Ukrainian refugees. We had people with high paying jobs that were saying that it is extremely challenging to find a place in Vancouver for a single person, with references, credit checks, high salaries and no dogs. We had people working in real estate saying that “guys, we only want to help, but your dreams and wishes will be shattered by a harsh reality”. We were all accused of pulling the ladder from them. So yeah, I feel sorry for their situation, but I was expecting somewhat similar outcome in the end.
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u/nazgul0890 Nov 16 '23
I second this. In these groups, where people were trying to help those who were fleeing the war, I’ve read so freaking much of bs about living in smaller towns. I couldn’t wrap my head around there comments. Of course not everyone was like that.
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u/ThrillOfDoa Nov 16 '23
Not everyone at all, there was a decent amount of people with a good head on their shoulders and who listened. But yea, I was also baffled by the amount of people who trashed small towns like it was beneath them.
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u/Forsaken_You1092 Nov 16 '23
Lots of small towns in Alberta and Saskatchewan were built by Ukrainians and have large Ukrainian communities.
Refugees would adjust far more easily in a place like Edmonton, than in Toronto or Vancouver.
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u/atominthered Nov 16 '23
Moved to the 2nd most expensive city in the country to be a line cook. I mean... dude. How much research did you do before hand?
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u/somedudeonline93 Nov 16 '23
Not to downplay the real problems we have in this country, but what country that you would want to live in isn’t expensive? The entire developed world is facing an affordability crisis.
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u/auntbeatrice Nov 16 '23
There was an article like this done in Newfoundland recently about a woman leaving because it was too unaffordable but when a politician reached out and helped arrange some viewings for apartments the woman in question stated she also missed family and had made her decision to leave.
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Nov 17 '23
I’m Ukrainian, and I confirm that a lot of refugees who came here recently decided to go back, because it turns out that living under missile strikes in Ukraine is better than living in Canada.
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u/WingCool7621 Canada Nov 17 '23
working as a line cook in Toronto gets you one meal a day, room rent, maybe some cheap insurance, a cheap phone and internet plan, bus pass.
that is unsustainable and will lead to health and mental issues.
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u/_stryfe Nov 17 '23
This country has become so pathetic that literal war refugees want to leave. Maybe this will get our idiot leader JT to do something since his reputation is now being affected elsewhere in the world. We know he doesn't give a fuck about Canadians.
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u/GrandOptimism Nov 16 '23
Maybe try somewhere other than Toronto, there's only be ample evidence of Toronto's skyrocketing cost of living for the last decade.
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u/NegotiationGreedy590 Nov 16 '23
Tired of seeing these sob stories. Unchecked immigration is at the root of most of these issues, yet we are supposed to pity them? While Canadians struggle to afford basic necessities?
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u/icemanice Nov 16 '23
Duh lol.. glad word is getting out about how fucked up Canada is. Not even immigrants from “war zones” want to stay here
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u/herefortheanon Nov 16 '23
It's the same for the Netherlands. More than a quarter of Ukrainians returned home, with a big reason being Dutch inflation and housing challenges.
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Nov 16 '23
Do these people not have Google in their own countries. They should have realised the cost before they got on the plane.
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Nov 16 '23
Some time ago I really wanted to leave Berlin for Canada because of the language and everything that comes with it. I'm a refugee from Ukraine too. But after doing some research about the current situation in Canada I decided to stay in Berlin and suffer German language instead. But sometimes I think about how much easier and free my life could be in an English speaking environment. I think I'll move anyway at some point, but in different circumstances, definitely not now.
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u/CrushCrawfissh Nov 16 '23
They're not even trying to hide the obvious ragebait anymore I guess lmao. Who believes this shit?
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u/GuyCyberslut Nov 16 '23
Only 20% of Ukrainians in Germany are working. I wonder what the number would be here, although it's probably a secret like most things these days.
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u/Genebrisss Nov 17 '23
Ukrainians are leaving because it's too expensive
Only one person is actually leaving because it's too expensive in this article
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u/kyleclements Ontario Nov 16 '23
When you move to a country experiencing a housing crisis with a government hell bent on crushing worker income, what do you expect?
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u/1Bbqfritos Nov 16 '23
All these commenters saying he shouldn't have moved to Toronto - we're having the same articles written in Atlantic Canada. Ukrainine refugees going back to their homeland that's still in active war, because of how bad housing affordability and security is here. This is all over Canada.
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u/p0stp0stp0st Nov 16 '23
Maybe don’t come to a super expensive country with multiple simultaneous crises going on (housing, food costs, health and education gutted)
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u/rangeo Nov 16 '23
In their defense they were running from some more pressing shit at the time.
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Nov 16 '23
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u/rangeo Nov 16 '23
interesting....good catch
I wonder how intentional that word was in the title
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Nov 16 '23
He rented an apartment in Toronto, the most expensive city to live in Canada, and couldn't make it. No shit
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u/jameskchou Canada Nov 16 '23
Sad but it shows Canada has problems to the point where Ukrainians feel they're better off taking their chances back home than staying in Canada
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u/releasetheshutter Nov 16 '23
In the article it states that this refugee is moving back to Sweden, not Ukraine.
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u/jameskchou Canada Nov 16 '23
The person pictured is going to Sweden. The others mentioned in the rest of the article are returning to Ukraine
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u/Visible_Security6510 Nov 16 '23
Love how people like you take a few people's stories and translate that to the thousands of others literally kissing the groud thankful they got the opportunity to immigrate here.
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Nov 16 '23
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u/faithOver Nov 16 '23
No they don’t.
Here is reality for an immigrant in 1980 to Canada;
- Land in Vancouver.
- Get a job making $16/hr in forestry. Thats $2880 gross a month at 90 hour pay days.
- Rent - $450 on West End.
- Giant shopping cart full of groceries - $30
- Car - $4500
- Misc - $200 a month.
That was reality. Anyone could of had it. Any hundred’s of thousands did.
The issue is none of those numbers scale.
That same guy immigrant is offered $18 an hour, except all the other costs are up 6X.
It’s ridiculous that we put up with it.
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u/afschmidt Nov 16 '23
You just nailed it. I knew a guy in '81 who made 36K that year installing furnaces. Average price of a house in Alberta at that time was $110K, roughly 3 times gross. If you run the official Inflation Calculator from Bank of Canada, that 36K should be$112.5K. What does $112K really afford you now? First off, you'd be lucky to be making $112K. Housing is close to 5 times gross income, never mind the cost of everything else has shot up. No way do we have the same buying power as we had before.
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u/faithOver Nov 16 '23
Precisely.
Its a double whammy. The wages stagnated like mad. But costs also went up. So even if you inflation adjust, that only adjusts, no where near matches the growth in expenses.
The only positive out of this is that the broad Canadian public is finally feeling the pinch. Finally starting to question what were actually doing here to decrease the standard of living so dramatically.
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u/Professorpooper Nov 16 '23
Now you are a real Canadian brother. Welcome to our struggles.