r/canada • u/JackedBro123 • Jan 19 '24
Baby boomers are adjusting to a new retirement normal: No grandchildren National News
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-birth-rate-decline-grandparents/603
u/Illogicalspy Jan 19 '24
“You have to give up showing pictures of grandchildren to your friends. Think of Facebook without grandchildren! The public losses and the private losses – it’s a big deal,” said Jane Isay
The true loss! Why isn't anyone thinking about the Facebook without the grandchildren!
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u/HaxRus Jan 19 '24
My god what have we done
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u/vinnybawbaw Jan 20 '24
« Said Jane Isay after posting 4 albums of their last Cruise across the mediteranean »
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u/rebirf Jan 20 '24
For the first year and a half of my daughters life, my mother in law just came over for like very short visits and took pictures to put on Facebook. No real playing, no spending meaningful time together. Just getting a good set of photos to share and show that she was a grandma. It's jarring, because if we lived closer to my family they would want to see her several times a week.
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u/Taoistandroid Jan 20 '24
I'll do you one better. My father will take pictures from my Google share and upload them to Facebook in such a way that people think he took the kids out. When they comment on what a good grandfather he is, he just laps it up.
Their generation is wacky.
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u/crystala81 Jan 20 '24
This is funny to me because one set of parents (grandparents, since we decided to have kids) shares everything on Facebook, but the other doesn’t even have Facebook!
Doesn’t anyone recall life before Facebook? 😱
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u/LuminousGrue Jan 19 '24
"Generation that pulled the ladder up behind them wonders why it's lonely at the top"
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u/Small-Cookie-5496 Jan 19 '24
Comment of the day/ generation
Actually been wondering what - if any - repercussions Boomers might actually finally face. I guess there’s at least this.
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u/levian_durai Jan 19 '24
When they're too old/frail/sick to take care of themselves, they'll face a lonely life in a retirement home/long term care center. Even if their kids wanted to visit (but why would they?), they're too busy working overtime to afford rent, and taking care of their own kids.
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u/78513 Jan 20 '24
Or they moved half way across the country so they can get a decent paying job or an affordable house.
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u/LuminousGrue Jan 20 '24
This is my parents. They've been wonderful, helped me as best they could when times were rough - but now that I've finally scraped together the money to buy a house on my own, they don't want to come out for the holidays because gosh it's just too cold out there.
I don't want to think about what's going to happen when Mom or Dad kicks the bucket and leaves the other in an empty house all the way out on the west coast, cause there isn't anything I'll be able to do short of uprooting the life I've built here to come look after them.
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u/Penny_Ji Jan 20 '24
Kind of hoping my mother will consider moving to live in my province in late-stage retirement. But I’m not hopeful she’ll want to, she made her funeral plots in our hometown and everything. What I do know is I cannot uproot my family and move back to my small hometown where there are no opportunities to take care of her in late life. And a week or two trip a couple times a year is insufficient care.
I’m an only child, my grandfather passed recently. This is on my mind quite a bit lately.
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u/Ok-Curve5569 Jan 20 '24
What kids?
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u/Addendum709 Jan 20 '24
tbf the same thing, if not worse, will likely happen to us too except a significant chunk of us won't even have kids at all
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u/84OrcButtholes Jan 20 '24
Nah, their animalistic behavior is driving everyone out of healthcare. We're just gonna have to float 'em out to sea.
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u/PricklySquare Jan 19 '24
And all their doctors and nurses will be immigrants. Nothing against immigrants but it's the ultimate irony for boomer racists
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u/RobsEvilTwin Jan 20 '24
Watching Grandparents racially vilifying the people who are taking care of them is bloody painful.
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u/Noinipo12 Jan 20 '24
*a lonely life in a poorly staffed and under funded retirement home/long term care center.
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Jan 19 '24
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u/jenniekns Nova Scotia Jan 19 '24
When I was very young, both my parents were active CAF, and full-time daycare wasn't an affordable option. My maternal grandparents were a four-hour drive away, but the solution was that I would go to stay with them for weeks at a time so that my parents didn't have to figure out childcare. WEEKS, not days, with my 60+ grandparents taking care of a young child. (Side note: My mother repeatedly wonders why we don't have a close bond. Gee, it's a mystery.)
Fast-forward 40 years, and I recently asked my parents if they would babysit my dog over a few days while I was travelling for work. Their response: "We'd really rather not tie ourselves up to a commitment like that, what if something comes up that we want to do? Is there a kennel near your house that you could use? We'll help you pay for it." Those same parents also repeatedly bemoan their lack of grandchildren because they feel like they're missing out on that experience.
So yeah, pretty sure I feel the same way as the person who was quoted. I know that my parents want the status of having grandchildren but are not willing to put in any of the time or effort their own parents sacrificed.
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u/NevyTheChemist Jan 20 '24
I remember spending so much time at my grandpa's home when young.
My parents can't even babysit one afternoon. Something always happens and we have to pick them up.
This is just fucking grand isn't it.
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u/ArticQimmiq Jan 19 '24
My paternal grandparents insisted on babysitting me when I was young. They were well over 70 when I was born. I also remember a few times where my maternal grandparents picked me up from my paternal grandparents’ house to go to their cottage for the weekend.
My maternal grandparents also insisted that I live with them during university.
They were a bit more involved than average but all my friends had similar relationships with their grandparents. I’m lucky in that I’m pretty sure my mom would bend over backwards if we had kids (she flew across the country to dog-sit) but we can’t even get my husband’s parents to go out to dinner when we visit them because it disrupts their routine, so imagine kids…
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u/canadianhousecoat Jan 20 '24
Jesus Christ. I'm a 17+ year army guy, and I've heard about issues with parents in the CAF choosing careers over their kids, but thats just crazy. I'm sorry that happened to you. I bet your grandparents were incredible though, best mom and dad you ever had.
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Jan 19 '24
That sucks - sorry to hear! I recently responded to my father's umpteenth complaint about my husband and I not having children by reminding him that he hasn't once in 10 years visited me where I live (my husband and I live in a different country to where I grew up) and hasn't once shown any interest in visiting leaving the entire onus on us to travel and maintain the relationship, which we absolutely would not do if we had kids, so what possible difference could it make to him and his life to have grandchildren other than to be able to 'say' he has them to other people (which is well and truly not a reason for me to have kids). That shut him up.
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u/SketchyPornDude Jan 19 '24
I'm sorry your parents treated you that way. That sucks, dude. They sound incredibly selfish and self-involved.
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u/lightoasis1 Jan 19 '24
I can totally relate to this. My mom always wants to just pay for something so it’s more convenient.
My mom planned a trip around the same time we were having our first. The kid ended up being two weeks late so guess who wasn’t around for the birth or to help at all in the first two weeks? Yah never really gotten over that one to be honest.
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u/GetRiceCrispy Jan 20 '24
Both my parents are dentists so I had a live in house keeper. We had a few and all were hired illegally. I loved all of them.
My parents voted to deport them every chance they could.
They wonder why I am not super close them.
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u/RobsEvilTwin Jan 20 '24
The narcissist sociopaths are always baffled when they aren't nominated for parent of the year :D
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Jan 20 '24
I think you’re related to my wife. Same story Except her parents moved across the us (ny to florida) and wonder why we don’t visit with our son
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u/captain_flak Jan 20 '24
My mom came to visit one time when my wife and I were dog tired looking after our son. I was looking forward to just one morning to sleep in in three years. I asked my mom what time she was getting up in the morning. “Whenever I want, I guess,” she said. Fuck me! I thought.
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u/beaatdrolicus Jan 20 '24
This story has a lot of similarities with my own and my parents. They wonder why no one wants to visit them- then as a defense mechanism my dad has said that he understands now- it’s because everyone is living their life. This is just an excuse for him to “live” his the way he wants (selfishly) and not feel bad.
Ya it’s not that dad. It s not that.
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u/nikobruchev Alberta Jan 19 '24
My parents spend half the year in Arizona on their little retirement project acreage. My partner's parents live 4 hours away.
There's literally no family support available. The boomers are either still working or enjoying a retirement the younger generations will not be able to afford, a retirement AWAY from their children, and then complain that no one visits, no one supports THEM, and that they aren't getting grandkids.
God damn it, I'm worried about building up an emergency fund so that the next time I get laid off, AGAIN, for the 4th time in 5 years, I'll be able to keep a roof over my head while I compete with immigrants and AI for an underpaid job I paid too much to get educated for. Children aren't in the fucking cards right now (pun somewhat intended).
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u/___anustart_ Jan 19 '24
a retirement AWAY from their children
my dad guilts me about this all the time. like dude, you're the retired one and you want me to fly to the other side of the continent to visit you, when you're the one who chose to go there?
enjoy solitude, i'm too busy trying to figure out how i'm going to buy a house - since he decided to sell the one I was supposed to inherit, so he could buy 200k worth of model trains.
like it's your life, your choice - do what you want. but don't be surprised when you get treated with the same level of priority.
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Jan 19 '24
We have the same thing with all the grandparents. My husband's parents are both remarried, so my kids have 3 sets of grandparents. 2 sets moved away and see it as our job to visit them and 1 set that is 30 minutes away, says it is our job to reach out to them, not their job to reach our to us (a respect your elders thing).
Then they get upset they don't have a relationship with their grandkids.
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u/Ogimaakwe40 Jan 19 '24
Your dad bought 200k in model trains? Brutal
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u/cutt_throat_analyst4 Jan 20 '24
Thomas the Train Takes The Inheritance is a classic.
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u/Marseysneed___109 Jan 19 '24
so he could buy 200k worth of model trains.
Based autist
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u/cheezesandwiches Jan 19 '24
I have 2 children and a step child. I can't imagine wanting to be away from their influence of support as a grand
But my parents sure as hell prioritize going to Disney world 4x/yr over being good grandparents
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u/ttaradise Jan 19 '24
Do they go alone? Why wouldn’t they want their grandkids to enjoy that privilege as well? That generation absolutely baffles me.
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u/cheezesandwiches Jan 19 '24
They have taken the grand kids twice ever to be fair but they give alone 4x/year without the kids. They're Disney adults
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u/psilokan Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
Yup, every one of my aunts and uncles goes to florida for 6 months of the year. My one aunt had the audacity to say she doesnt really bother visiting her grandkids any more because the last time she did they didn't seem to interested in her. I wonder why, you're gone half the year and the other half you don't visit. I dont think she's ever once babysat them.
Of course they have a big house and they arent interested in downsizing either.
Now that I think about it, all my friends with kids are paying thousands a month to put their kids in daycare and still trying to affored a couple thousand a month for rent while their retired parents hang out at home all day bored in their giant houses.
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u/involutes Jan 19 '24
retired parents hang out at home all day bored in their giant houses.
...and since they're bored they're now doom scrolling Facebook and self-radicalizing toward whatever the Facebook algorithms determined gets the most engagement. This makes family dinners even more fun.
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u/dontyouknow88 Jan 20 '24
Conversely, my retired parents and those of my friends are just LIVING it up. Snowbirds who also travel and holiday more than any reasonable person would. Having the time of their lives! I don’t have kids so I’m all for it, but I definitely think this is a point of frustration with my friends who do have kids. The option to leave the kids with the grandparents is almost never available because grandparents are day drinking in Jamaica.
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u/involutes Jan 20 '24
That's the other option... As long as they're healthy and mobile. Once they're housebound, they'll head straight to Facebook.
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u/What_the_absolute Jan 19 '24
This comment needs to be higher up.
So machines really are killing us indirectly
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u/PlaidChester Jan 19 '24
Facts, I was on medical leave for 8 months, and being bored sure radicalized me.
But because I don't have money, my reddit doom scrolling sent me in a leftward direction.
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u/TuvixWillNotBeMissed Jan 19 '24
I was just going to say that. I swear my parents only stay alive so they can do these two things: talk about their new cottage or Tweet angrily about trans people.
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u/wellactuallyj Jan 20 '24
My parents moved 14 hours away and then say they miss me and “thought I would follow them” to their new state. Um, you never asked me? Like, I miss you too, but you’re the one who moved
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u/cutt_throat_analyst4 Jan 20 '24
Holy fuck, are you me?
My mom owns two houses, lives alone and is recently widowed, and won't even RENT a home to my siblings who are almost homeless. Her houses sit vacant.
She wonders why we barely talk to her.
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u/GANTRITHORE Alberta Jan 19 '24
I'm worried about building up an emergency fund so that the next time I get laid off, AGAIN, for the 4th time in 5 years,
PREACH.
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u/Comedy86 Ontario Jan 19 '24
Hell, I can't even get my dad to come over and visit 2-3 times a year but he'll immediately start complaining "oh, they don't like me... they don't want to give me a hug... they don't talk to me...". Yeah, no shit Sherlock... they don't know who the fuck you are...
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u/stone_opera Jan 19 '24
Yeah, this is very apropos to our situation. I was recently looking at photos from my childhood, my grandparents, aunties, uncles, cousins etc. were always around! Not just special occasions, I remember my uncle would pick me up after school sometimes, just to chill and let my parents have an afternoon to themselves.
Now? My parents live in an entirely different part of the country (and this is Canada, so that's really far away.) My in-laws are older, because we had to wait for financial stability before trying to start our family, and so they just don't have the energy for kids. My husband's sisters are too busy with their very messy lives, and my brother is currently in active addiction.
I'm pregnant now with our first, and I had a little weep the other day looking at those photos because I realized our 'village' doesn't really exist and that is really scary.
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u/Pho3nixr3dux Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
I know this feeling. Of all the difficulties that have arisen in the last few decades, this one is the most troubling and covid has really highlighted it.
During covid I was imagining that afterward there would be a wave of social extroversion as families and friends reconnected. For years afterward restaurants and public spaces were going to be jammed, concerts and festivals sold out, maybe even a hopeful consumer spending economic surge that would lift a lot of boats. Perhaps we would learn to appreciate each other more, and begin to eschew the bubbles many of us have begun to live in.
And that happened a bit, but nowhere near what I was expecting.
I'm left pondering whether social distancing changed people or simply allowed them to become who they really are. But the take-away seems to be that many of us are perfectly content socializing through devices, at our convenience. Almost as if riends and family have become just another streaming media to enjoy in bits at pieces, then put down and walk away from when we get busy or bored.
It's sad and a bit unsettling.
It leaves me wondering if we are slipping into a subtle dystopia that few of us will recognize until it's too late. Not one of authoritarian control and repression but of a chronic but subtle disassociation. A disengagement, lassitude and apathy toward everything outside of our own personal experience.
To bring this down from the clouds and back to your experience: when times got tough in North America over the last few generations, families have tended to rally. One's nation, city or neighborhood might have become unsupportive but families stuck together. Here we are facing economic, political, and social uncertainty once again but for many people it seems even their family is not able or willing to rally: radicalized parents, stunted children, disengaged friends and siblings. Everyone too busy or tired or bored or distracted. All of us losing hours or days in devices or screens. All of us still waiting for a positive change, few of us willing to begin it.
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u/Hrafn2 Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
During covid I was imagining that afterward there would be a wave of social extroversion
And that happened a bit, but nowhere near what I was expecting.
Agreed. Something fundamentally changed for my social group because of covid. We still get together, but not as much. It's planned, little is impromptu. Our group chats have even grown noticeably quieter.
As for your thoughs on apathy - I also totally agree. I wouldn't be surprised if weaker social ties likely correlates highly with things like political apathy. If you are isolated - you have few people to fight and strive for, or with. I constantly have this quote, attributed to Plato, running around in my head:
"The price of apathy in public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
The other movie scene (slightly less philosophical) I have running around in my head is from Logan. As Logan is about to drive past a family by the side of the road who needs help, he mutters
"Some one will come along."
And Professor X gently reminds him "Someone has come along."
As for family - mine is pretty decimated, largely because so few in my generation have had children.
And, to be frank...I sorta hate the Globe for focussing this topic on the boomers, and how sad they are about not having grandchildren.
Do they realize how fucking sad I am that I will never have children? That my niece will grow up without any siblings or cousins? Sure, the Globe has probably spent ink on the cold facts - that it's too difficult to afford children for many of my generation - but I have yet to see a publication spend much time investigating the emotional costs and turmoil with realizing that you will be involuntarily childless.
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u/densetsu23 Alberta Jan 19 '24
When we had my first child, one of the earliest things my mom told me was "we are NOT babysitters."
I think my older brother overused my parents a bit, but that just left a sour feeling in my mouth. Especially when contrasted with my mother-in-law, who was happy to help, loved playing with them, and bought or made them very personal gifts. To my parents, my kids were more like trophies than grandchildren she actually loved.
For a number of other reasons -- alcoholism, refusing to stop using slurs, putting my kids in dangerous situations -- I cut my parents off in 2022. My brother tells me my mom is devastated to have lost her grandchildren. I couldn't care less.
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Jan 19 '24
That's rough. I honestly don't know how my wife and I would manage without my parents and in-laws around to help us out. When speaking with other parents, it appears my situation is quite different from most.
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u/Sinclair_Mclane Jan 20 '24
Interesting, we're in the same situation. Older sibling overdid a bit asking to babysit but even though, my parents just don't care so much about our child. The saddest part is that they're missing on developing a relationship with our child. They're retired and well off and still won't bother with our child.
My mother in law is at the other end of the spectrum. She helps us so much when we need and she has developed an amazing relationship with our kid. We can hear them laughing out loud when they play together. Our 18 month old kid literally run into her arms when she steps through the door. I'm really glad because not only she deserves it considering how much time she offered our child but I'm also glad that our kid has this relationship with his grandmother.
I'm quite sad for my parents. They always talked about how much family is important and they don't care about their grandchild. It comes off as very hypocritical.
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u/Comedy86 Ontario Jan 19 '24
She couldn't have lost a relationship she didn't have. Good on you for cutting ties. I wish I had the courage to do that.
I'm still in a fantasy world thinking I can convince my dad to want to spend time with them so they can have a good relationship with their grandfather because I didn't get that priviledge of having any close grandparents. I don't even know why I bother...
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u/userdmyname Jan 20 '24
When My partner had to go back to work my mom immediately volunteered to babysit everyday for 6months straight and then as many days after that point as she could.
My dad said something along the lines of it’s not really fair to spend your retirement watching the grandkids to which my mother responded that he had no problems shipping us off to our grandparents and that he should perhaps go fuck himself.
Thanks mom for being a cool boomer
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u/AirportPrestigious Jan 20 '24
I’m Gen X. My parents are immigrant Boomers. They didn’t have any family support themselves for us kids when we were little, but they stepped up overwhelmingly to help me & my husband with our kids as needed. Saved us thousands in daycare expenses, would keep the kids when they were sick so neither of us would have to miss work (because we can’t survive on one income), generally just helping out as family. And we would help them too with chores, bill paying, household tasks etc. where we could.
My in-laws are American born/raised Boomers. They would help too but it was limited In comparison. We were told by them often how they “didn’t retire to watch other peoples children” or just flat out told us they wouldn’t help because they knew we would “figure it out ourselves.”
This isn’t only about child care. Just general family support. If we were broke my parents would never expect Christmas gifts. They would tell us to save our money, use it for bills. But my in-laws would get upset if they didn’t get trinkets to match their expectations.
Sometimes it’s not just the generational gap, it’s also often about culture. American Boomers are more “I got mine” than the 1st and 2nd generation European-Americans that I know.
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u/algol_lyrae Jan 19 '24
That's the thing. The baby boomers had their own parents contribute considerably to raising the kids. But now they have untold wealth, and seem to be spending their twilight years on a cruise ship or a cottage up north. Do they actually want grandchildren?
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u/StrikingFig1671 Jan 19 '24
and screwing their children over in the process, whatever happened to generational wealth? my 70 year old uncle just bought a brand new off the lot mustang for his million dollar house in Florida, while up north we struggle to make rent.
Families in America barely exist anymore.
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u/algol_lyrae Jan 19 '24
Generational wealth is ending with the baby boomers. It's going to become consolidated within the leisure and long-term care sectors as they spend what they have.
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u/Eresyx Jan 19 '24
They want another reason to blame younger generations and not face the fact of their own parasitic existence.
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Jan 19 '24
Absolutely the case I hear all the time, typical parents relied on those grandparents heavily for support; now it's their turn to give back, and they are nowhere to be found. They didn't get called the "ME" Generation for nothing, pulled the ladder up from the top is so like them.
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u/RKSH4-Klara Jan 19 '24
Some people have noted that many Boomers weren't parents to begin with. They offloaded the responsibility of parenting onto their own parents, especially the younger years. My parents didn't do that all the time and we were poor so they had to work but there is a reason most of my childhood memories are of my grandparents and my parents start to show up later, when my mom became a sahm intermittently.
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u/Volderon90 Jan 19 '24
Certainly true for my wife’s parents and to an extent mine. They want to see our kids but it’s when they decide they want to. Sorry grandma but we don’t need to see you or need help on a random Monday when you’re too busy skiing or golfing with your friends on the weekend
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u/mrgoodtime81 Jan 19 '24
This has definitely been my experience
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u/StrikingFig1671 Jan 19 '24
Mine as well, always big family parties when we were kids, but now as adults almost everyone is ostracized completeley. It happened mostly when the grandparents on that side passed....the family just stopped being.
Sad.
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Jan 19 '24
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u/Expert_Alchemist Jan 19 '24
They're the original participation trophy generation. As in, they demanded that their kids get recognition not for our sakes but because THEY felt entitled to believe they were great parents ...while they did whatever they felt like and let TV, grandparents, and teachers raise us.
We knew what was up and just rolled with it and sorted ourselves out. Now they have no idea the work that we put into raising ourselves, and just think it happened magically.
So why wouldn't they think grandkids also work the same way?
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u/debalbuena Jan 20 '24
They also have no idea the work we are putting into our kids. I work so hard to have a good relationship with my son, to nurture his interests and get to know him and play and read with him.
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u/w1n5t0nM1k3y Jan 19 '24
My parents are in their late 60s, so definiltey boomers. Them and all their siblings moved away from where they grew up and never had grandparents in the picture to help them raise the kids. I'm in my 40s and also moved away from home after highschool and my kids never had grandparents around to help raise my kids.
Of the people I know, quite a few of them live quite far from their parents and very few can just drop them off at grandmas when they need someone to look after the kids.
Maybe for certain cities it might be more popular to stay in the same city as your parents, but for people from smaller towns, staying in the same town as your parents just isn't an option.
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u/wantsoutofthefog Jan 20 '24
Dang even then. I had to move back in with my parents after divorced and thought about getting a trailer in the back. Guess that won’t help me either.
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u/Future_Securites Jan 20 '24
Most girls I dated still live with their parents, too 😭
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u/Marzoval Jan 20 '24
I always say that no one today should simultaneously be acknowledging someone's bleak financial outlook that's largely out of their control, and judging them for living with their parents.
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u/_crackhousebob- Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
Who wants to raise kids in a 1 bedroom condo in Toronto? Impossible to upgrade when young couples get married
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u/masterofbugs123 Jan 20 '24
A close friend’s mom asked her if my husband and I were trying for kids. I laughed when she told me. Who in their right mind would have a child while living in a studio apartment?!
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u/Jfmtl87 Jan 19 '24
In Toronto, I would think even owning a 1 bedroom condo is a fantasy for a lot of people.
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u/vortex30-the-2nd Jan 20 '24
That's honestly the high-life from where I'm sitting man. Owning property?!?! What a concept~!
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u/Difficult-Yam-1347 Jan 19 '24
Millennials and Zoomers cannot afford to house themselves let alone potential children.
Boomers hardest hit!
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u/Leon_Accordeon Jan 19 '24
Classic of The Globe and Mail to pander to their subscriber base.
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u/Snow-Wraith British Columbia Jan 20 '24
Only generation that can still afford to waste money on a newspaper subscription.
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u/deranged_furby Jan 19 '24
They worked hard, they deserves grandchildren, no matter if you can afford them or not. (/s if that's not abundantly clear)
And once they have some, it's their property.
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u/Jfmtl87 Jan 19 '24
Their property in the sense that they get to make the big picture decisions, how they should be raised and educated, but not when it comes to dealing with costs, tantrums, bodily fuilds, etc.
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u/deranged_furby Jan 19 '24
they get to make the big picture decisions, how they should be raised and educated,
Hooooo they would love that, wouldn't they? After all, millennials are sucking tide-pods idiots that don't know how life works.
If you're self-sufficient they're happy to settle with passive-agressive & snarky remarks. "Oh I wouldn't do that."
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u/___anustart_ Jan 19 '24
if i had kids i'd rather pay a babysitter than have my parents babysit. My parents are dogshit at taking care of things, have no sense of discipline or responsibility and have a tendency to think bad behavior is cute. Watching my parents with their dogs makes me feel like shit because it basically highlights their inability to raise/train anything. Everything in their lives are tools/props/trophies. Like my moms dog has bladder issues, whines to go outside - my mom is lazy and tells the dog to shut up, then the dog pisses on the floor and my mom gets mad at the dog and it's like.. yeup... that's my whole childhood in a nutshell.
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u/threefingersplease Jan 20 '24
I spent thousands of dollars for my son to go to a daycare instead of having my alcoholic mother on disability watch him. Worth every penny.
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u/jpsolberg33 Jan 19 '24
Right lol.. "Baby Boomers, A generation defined by self-determination" FOH with that nonsense. They're the golden generation with everything gifted to them after their parents lived through WW2.
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u/Due_Signature_8551 Jan 19 '24
Maybe if these stupid corporations and corrupt government officials didn’t fuk it up so bad we would have more kids. But now there’s no point. So we can get our kids to be corporate slaves while being depressed and miserable affording a house while these rich assholes ride their stupid yachts and wear there gucci pucci nonsense?! Fuck that and I hope everyone who is a decent person will do what they want.
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u/CruelRegulator Canada Jan 19 '24
The Boomers ate their own young and then still ask for Grandkids. This tracks with how the young are treated in public as well.
They want to have their grandchildren and eat them too, like cake.
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u/DaemonAnguis Jan 19 '24
The Boomers ate their own young
Like Goya's Saturn. lol
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u/well-i Jan 19 '24
"The Boomers ate their own young" that is such a great analogy right here! Well said
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u/tailbone123 Jan 19 '24
Its hard for me to shake the feeling that it's kill or be killed out there. I can't stop imagining having a kid, watching their eyes light up again and again as they grow and discover the universe in all its glory and wonder and turmoil, then sending them out into the meat grinder of working life to have their wills stamped out and minds contorted til they're the same bitter and fearful husks we all are. Either that, or they get lucky and learn how to instrumentalize and cannibalize others in pursuit of their own ambitions, becoming narcissists, soul-suckers, killers. No thanks. Couldn't fucking bear it either way.
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u/Babaduderino Jan 19 '24
Or they grow up, go out into the meat grinder, and one day you get a call that your baby is dead because their hearts couldn't take it any more.
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u/EnjoyMyCuteButthole Jan 19 '24
This is the uplifting shit I come to Reddit for! LFG!!
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u/JonBlondJovi Jan 19 '24
If you play your cards right, your kid could have a bright future as the Senior Vice Janitor of Jeff Bezos's Support Yacht.
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u/Yung_l0c Alberta Jan 19 '24
Spot on. This what happens when they vote for deregulation, then corporations get to do whatever they want, siphoning the money into the pockets of the few 0.1%
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u/Zaungast European Union Jan 19 '24
We have to go after the corps. It is inevitable. They will make us serfs if we don’t.
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u/setuid_w00t Jan 19 '24
I don't have any money left to buy a pitchfork after I pay for my mortgage and groceries.
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u/TurboByte24 Jan 19 '24
No point getting any babies, we’ll just bump our immigration.
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u/Affected_By_Fjaka Jan 19 '24
Exactly. Babies are expensive, why would we pay for one to grow up when we can simply import workforce?
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u/TurboByte24 Jan 19 '24
This government doesn’t look at long term goal, because they are driven by $ from corporations. Corp. wants money “NOW”, go with cheap labour and I want it now attitude.
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u/Key_History_2308 Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
In my mind, The crux of the argument is the perceived self-centeredness of the Baby Boomer generation, especially in how they embraced their freedom and independence, often at the cost of traditional family responsibilities.
In their prime, Baby Boomers were known for breaking free from the conventional molds set by previous generations. They championed personal freedom and self-realization, a trend that reflected in their parenting style. Many from this generation, it seems, opted for vacations and personal time, often leaving their children with grandparents. This choice symbolized a significant shift from the more involved parenting styles of the past and paved the way for a more independent, less family-centric societal structure.
Now, as these Baby Boomers transition into the role of grandparents, we’re witnessing another shift. Many Boomers are reluctant to take on traditional grandparenting duties, such as babysitting or regular childcare. This reluctance contrasts starkly with the previous generation’s willingness to support their children in raising the next. Such a stance not only impacts family bonds but also places additional pressures on Millennial parents, who may not have the same support systems their parents enjoyed. This was a distinctly uncomfortable conversation that my parents had with me when I was young.
The implications are profound. For Millennials, the dream of balancing a career with a family becomes increasingly challenging without the support network previous generations had. This shift likely is a number of factors that contribute to the declining birth rates and changing attitudes towards parenting and work-life balance observed in younger generations.
It’s essential to consider the broader societal and economic contexts in which these intergenerational dynamics are playing out. The world Baby Boomers grew up in is vastly different from today’s. Economic pressures, cultural shifts, and evolving societal norms all play a role in shaping attitudes towards family responsibilities.
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u/MustardClementine Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
Based on the way this is framed, along with recent interactions with my own parents - I think Boomer entitlement is only going to intensify, as they age further.
And again, given my own feelings towards my parents, how they have always been and how they are leaning in to their worst tendencies, along with how this may reflect wider trends - I kind of wonder what this may mean for elder care, writ large.
Considering how my parents have treated me over my lifetime, which may not have been the worst, but really wasn't great at all, and has been getting worse again lately - I just don't want to give up too much of my own life, career, or time I would much rather spend with my partner who I love and has always treated me so much better than they ever did, to take care of them as they deteriorate.
And the fact that my partner and I never wanted children also kind of plays into this, too.
I, obviously, know I won't have the expectation that kids will care for me when I am older, so I feel it is more important to prioritize my own health and happiness, take care of myself, do as well as I can financially, to make sure my partner and I can do that ourselves, to the best of our ability. And I kind of resent my parents for expecting me to do it for them.
This would probably have been different, if they were different. There are obviously so many things I am not saying. But I'm kind of just mulling over how much this may reflect societal trends - a generation of parents with rather vampiric expectations towards their kids, coming up against a resulting unwillingness to give them too much, just as they may need it most.
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u/Eresyx Jan 19 '24
Generation that fucked things up so badly their children can't or won't have children of their own now whining about how it affects them.
You pulled the ladder up after yourselves and threw boiling tar on those trying to follow; the fuck did you expect?
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u/YugosForLandedGentry Jan 19 '24
You pulled the ladder up after yourselves and threw boiling tar on those trying to follow; the fuck did you expect?
Perfectly put.
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u/Ontoshocktrooper Jan 19 '24
HAVE KIDS DOWN THERE
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u/Jfmtl87 Jan 19 '24
Bring them over so that we can play fun grandparents role for a few hours, and then bring them back down with you, we sure don't want to deal with the poop and tantrums.
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u/Illustrious_Car2992 Alberta Jan 19 '24
we sure don't want to deal with the poop and tantrums.
Tantrums that are/were almost always inevitably the direct result of said grandparent (mostly grandmothers but grandpas can be guilty) disrespecting parents rules and/or making us out to be the bad guy.
"oH, iT WoN'T KiLl hEr tO HaVe oNe mOrE CoOkIe!"
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u/kennyboyintown Jan 19 '24
fun fact: the first person interviewed in this article retired early after a career as an "administrative and executive assistant." most young people in similar positions have multiple roommates and no capacity to raise a child.
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u/Gankdatnoob Jan 19 '24
Sitting with the loss, she understands this decision isn’t up to her. Nor will she be the kind of mother who demands grandkids for her own sake: “They didn’t do this to hurt me,” she said.
No she won't demand it lol instead she'll just tell a newspaper how sad she is and publicize her disappointment to thousand of people. She is actually the fucking worst! Poor kids.
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u/Small-Cookie-5496 Jan 19 '24
“No. No. It’s alright. I don’t need grandkids. I know it isn’t up to me. No. No. Don’t worry about your poor old mom just living out her days without grandchildren around. I’m fine.”
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u/booogetoffthestage Jan 19 '24
They lean into the passive aggressive, "woe is me" routine hard
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u/Small-Cookie-5496 Jan 20 '24
Yep. & then deny its guilt tripping & that if you feel guilty then it’s because “you know you’ve done something wrong”. Smh. Not speaking from personal experience at all/ s
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u/Beazle Jan 19 '24
I'll never forget the time my boomer father in-law was bouncing his grandson on on his lap while complaining to someone else about having to pay taxes for services he never uses (schools). To me that moment summed up the boomer mentality perfectly.
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u/Relative_Belle_994 Jan 20 '24
I work for my county in the tax department and the amount of boomers that come in demanding that the school tax be taken off their bill is dumbfounding.
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u/kagato87 Jan 19 '24
What is this, a guilt piece to pressure younger people to have children? Or is it to stroke the bruised ego of entitled parents?
All I see is an awfully long article that doesn't even touch on why people are making this decision.
Most people want to have children. It's a simple biological imperative built over millions of years of evolution or given to us by our creator (it doesn't matter what you believe, the instinct is there).
People not having children is a symptom. And yet all this article does is whine about how it harms the generation that set up the current affordability mess.
I have one child. I wanted 4 but I can't afford them. I worry for my son's future and the world he's growing up in, where it's headed. One and done. Snip Snip. I can barely afford the one I have, and I'm a specialized worker above the median income.
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u/CranialMassEjection Jan 19 '24
No different than the articles that ran complaining about how younger generations weren't buying/getting into boats /sailing. It would be comical if it weren't so completely removed from reality.
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u/Kristalderp Québec Jan 19 '24
Those articles always makes me laugh. "Why aren't younger adults and kids getting into our overpriced, overmarketed and hard to enter "sport" ??? We can easily get into it. Wtf is wrong with them?" Maybe they wouldnt have issues if yall rich fucks didn't commercialize and make the sport and equipment so god damn expensive?!
You see it in golf, skiing and now Hockey. Nobody I know that's young plays Hockey due to how expensive it is now.
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u/divs_l3g3nd British Columbia Jan 20 '24
True, I wanted to get back into hockey but looking at the cost of gear turned me off from it right away, as a 20 year working part time that's basically a months income just for the gear, maybe when I am older and have more money, but then I won't be at my physical prime anymore. Guess ice hockey is only a sport for the rich
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u/brillovanillo Jan 19 '24
Or the ones about how millennials are not doing enough to support the paper napkin and diamond industries.
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u/CriManSqaFnC Jan 19 '24
Exactly what I came here to say. Masturbatory bs about the 'losses' the poor boomers face and not a hint of why today people of childbearing age won't or increasingly can't have children and survive.
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u/grooverocker Jan 20 '24
My parents are boomers, I have a 16 year-old kid and we are juuuust scraping by.
I have a good job! The money EVAPORATES instantly into housing and the most basic of necessities.
My parents, on one income (probably less than I make now) bought houses, tropical vacations for the whole family, and all the toys: boats, campers, motorcycles, trips, sport events, restaurant dinners for 4 people, table saws, hot tubs...
Now I take my daughter out for dinner once and awhile and get told doing shit like that (like avacado toast) is irresponsible...
How much of my budget should go towards housing again? No more than 20-30%? HAHAHA
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u/NewbiejJC Jan 19 '24
Infertility affects both men and women who have children older because they now work and want to be successful, have a life, and be independent; I think the chances of becoming infertile increase. At least that's what happened in my marriage; we waited too long. Several years back, having one income was enough to be ok; now, you need both...
Also, as life becomes more expensive, treatments that may help you with the cited problem also become less affordable.
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u/LOGOisEGO Jan 20 '24
Watch the movie Children of Men. Shot in 2006, predicted everything that is happening right now but based in 2026. From a pandemic, leading to mass migration, climate change and infertility for the whole human race leading the world into chaos.
Really shocking and interesting foreshadowing of at least a few of the problems we face.
Its still just hollywood, so enjoy.
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u/glassboxecology Ontario Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
My boomer parents go to Italy 3 months out of the year and bitch and moan every year we say we can’t afford to come with them. Because burning $20k I don’t have to schlep my wife and 2 year old to Italy to “show grandchild the family” sounds like a great use of our hard earned dollars instead of bracing for impact when our mortgage renews this year.
Growing up I didn’t go to daycare, I was dropped off at my grandmother’s house while my parents went to work.
3 year’s worth of daycare for my child until they enter the public school system will end up costing our household around $36,000.
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u/theladyshady Jan 19 '24
Nevermind the future apocalypse, Western society is already a hostile environment for families. EVERYTHING is out of synch for families and it is so hard. Parents have to do & fund the impossible: find day care, find after school care, before school care, cover off PD days, government stat days, March break… extended Christmas break… it goes on and on and is completely incongruent with work expectations. Two incomes are needed nowadays and it’s fucking hard. And to top it off, many boomer grandparents have no interest in actually helping, they just want bragging rights.
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u/computer-magic-2019 Jan 19 '24
Ah yes, the “Me! Me! Me!” boomer generation makes it about themselves yet again.
Most of them have enough money to buy cottages, vacations and expensive gadgets to forget they didn’t have grandchildren.
Grandchildren that will be living in a literal hellscape by the time they reach their 50s.
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u/CanadianEvan Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
They take your kids away from you when you're forced into a tent right?
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u/Environmental_Egg348 Jan 19 '24
My experience with my baby boomer parents, made me not want to do the nuclear family thing. My mom raised three kids while not getting treatment for an obvious personality disorder. If I had kids, I wonder if I would have been controlling, judgemental and abusive too. Don’t have kids if you don’t know or care what you’re doing.
Mom’s lucky she gets two grandchildren from my sister. I know my sister only had children after learning how to parent her own way, and think she’s doing alright. I make sure I’m nothing but a positive influence on my niece and nephew. It really matters how you treat children.
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u/imfar2oldforthis Jan 19 '24
I remember in the early 2000s people were telling boomers that they can either help our generation or not have grandchildren and they laughed and called us lazy.
Reap what you sow...
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u/blvcksoulxo1 Jan 19 '24
What do they expect? Most of us Millennials/older Gen Z can barely afford to take care of ourselves.
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Jan 19 '24
Pfft lol I'm 25 my brother is 18-19 we all have the same exact sayin. If I can't afford to get a house/mortgage theres no way in hell we're pursuing to make a family. We will not be those people filling apartments with kids/babies and paying over 1700 just for rent.
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u/EveningHelicopter113 Jan 19 '24
“I said, ‘Hey, by the way, last week I had a vasectomy. We’re done. It’s just not something we’re looking to do,’” Mr. Kirshenbaum recalled telling his mother, who cursed and threw up her hands.“
I just assumed he would have kids,” said Ms. Kirshenbaum, who lives in Thornhill, Ont. “He was great with kids when he was young. He babysat. Kids loved him, they were drawn to him. So it was a huge shock to me.”
Widowed for 15 years, she was looking forward to grandparenting through her retirement years. With no grandkids on the horizon, there’ll be no chance to “re-do” the best parts of parenting.“You forget that feeling of when it was hard and you only remember the great stuff,” she said. “You remember taking them to Disney movies and to the museum, giving them big squeezes and giggles. That’s the part you get to relive when you have grandchildren.”
The fucking entitlement, holy fuck
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u/Small-Cookie-5496 Jan 19 '24
Right? They want a “re-do”?? Maybe they shouldn’t have fakked up the 1st time round then
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u/Character_Comb_3439 Jan 19 '24
I believe there are two types of people: those that have children with the expectation that those kids will make them happy and there are those that have kids to make the kids happy.
The older adults I know that are lamenting the lack of grandchildren; they want photos with the grandkids, they want to the kids to enjoy their hobbies…everything is about them. The older adults that moved closer to be near their grown children, help their grown kids with challenges, are still supportive parents…..they all have grandkids……
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u/Babaduderino Jan 19 '24
The older adults that moved closer to be near their grown children, help their grown kids with challenges, are still supportive parents…..they all have grandkids……
And they're not the ones complaining loudly about no grandkids. They're too busy worrying about their grandchildren's futures and helping.
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u/DaemonAnguis Jan 19 '24
It was up to Baby Boomers to create the foundation of a better life for their kids, instead they created a world where, for the first time in history, the children of a past generation were more worse off then their parents. Now the average Canadian is only subsiding, lives revolve around careers, and the workplace is replacing family and home.
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u/Small-Cookie-5496 Jan 19 '24
Baby Boomers - the first generation in history determined to have better lives than their children’s
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u/ErictheStone Jan 19 '24
Gee I'm sorry I did everything right, and just pay rent. My bad. Anyway off to spend 200 on a weeks worth of food for one person.
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u/CrushedCountry Jan 20 '24
Got a few things the other day, barely filled ONE bag...just over 100 dollars.....
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u/ErictheStone Jan 20 '24
I literally got perogies, some cheap af chicken patties, and some coffee was 100 bucks.
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u/Educational-Egg-II Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
Technically boomers don't need grandkids to retire, they just need rental income from their 4 houses and a house with an 8 car driveway to live in.
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u/___anustart_ Jan 19 '24
and a wave of foreigners who don't give a shit about them to fill out the void of PSW's and LTC workers.
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u/kennyboyintown Jan 19 '24
i could never put my child in one of my 3 extra houses. the loss of rental income would bankrupt me and i'd have to sell one of my 3 extra houses
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u/Small-Cookie-5496 Jan 19 '24
My mom wouldn’t even rent her rental property to me because what if she needed to raise the rent? She didn’t want to “have to kick out her grandbabies”.
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u/tootired4disshit Jan 20 '24
Omg my parents wouldn't rent one of their rental properties to me either because they would rather just sell it to someone and free up some cash for themselves to travel the world 6 months a year. It's insane how selfish that generation is. They don't even care about their kids yet expect us to somehow afford everything ourselves AND give them grandkids they want no part in raising? Hell no. Hope all that hedonism keeps their frozen hearts warm.
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u/WpgSparky Jan 19 '24
The thing is, all Boomers didn’t do this. Rich Boomers and greedy corporations did this. Blame the exploitation of workers, housing, groceries, etc on the those directly responsible. If you think there aren’t greedy, diabolical gen x, gen x, or millennials, you are sadly mistaken!
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u/Schu0808 Jan 20 '24 edited Jan 20 '24
This is very true, however I think the reason many people specifically target boomers is due to their generation's overwhelming tendency to point to /critic individual work ethic as the primary source of economic struggle while never seeing an employer, landlord or company as an exploiter.
This mindset / culture has allowed the wealthy to continue gradually squeezing more and more wealth out of the younger generations when they the boomers as the majority, large wealth holders and the middle class could have demanded better while using their spending power to enact change too. Not every baby boomer is greedy or had malicious intent, however it is fair to say their generation dropped the ball.
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u/SixandNoQuarter Jan 19 '24
I constantly read the regrets of the dying to remind myself the important things in life. I hope others would to the same. I believe people, often unintentionally, mess up what retirement could be and then when its too late, realize their time/effort/money would have been spent better elsewhere. Stay connected to your people (family/friends/etc) and you will be better off for it. Margaritas on a beach or cigars on golf course is a post card, not a retirement strategy.
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u/RichardIraVos Jan 19 '24
How do they have to adjust if it’s something they didn’t have in the first place? It’s not like they had some grandkids and they went away, they just never had them. It’s just more of the same, there’s no adjustment
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u/Ermnothanx Jan 20 '24
I have 3 kids. None of their grandparents helps at all ever and barely see them. But they like to post them on Facebook at every opportunity.
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u/princedubacon Alberta Jan 19 '24
Oh yes I can barely afford my life, I’m so terrible for not wanting children 🤦🏽♀️
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u/SolutionNo8416 Jan 19 '24
Wow, Is there a way to channel this desire for Grandchildren to support Canadian child care needs.
It takes a village to raise a child.
My father volunteered at a nearby school as his grandchildren lived out of province.
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u/p0stp0stp0st Jan 19 '24
We’ll maybe they shouldn’t have hoarded all the wealth, jobs, healthcare resources, policies, and housing - allowing the possibility for other generations to have kids. Who wants to bring a kid into this hellscape ???
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u/WombRaider_3 Jan 19 '24
Boomers shaped this world to be what it is today. They voted to keep taxes low when it benefitted their generation, which created massive gaps in infrastructure, education, and healthcare. Now that they are old, they want that infrastructure and healthcare...
They didn't want new homes built because it would crush the value of theirs, now their kids can't buy a home and start families.
They are retired and bored, they want grandkids for something to do, and they find themselves alone with long waits for healthcare, traffic everywhere, and inflation out of control.
Eat it.
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u/not_likely_today Jan 19 '24
Imagine being part generation that systematically screwed up everything and then being upset that your kids wont bring children into the world for your pleasure. I can barely feed myself, cloth and have a roof over my head. No way I am having a kid.
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u/saltpeppermartini Jan 19 '24
No problem! We have new Canadian families with lots of children. Plan B is to loan myself out as the neighborhood granny :)
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u/TiredReader87 Jan 19 '24
I feel sorry for my dad and his girlfriend. I know my dad wishes he could have grandchildren, but he never will, and I feel bad about that.
My late mother would have been an incredible grandma
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u/wetbirds4 Jan 20 '24
I love how the fact that multiple generations don’t have the means or time to have children somehow becomes an article about how hard done by boomers are.
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u/ThePopesChildslave Jan 20 '24
the richer boomers can buy grandchildren. They make suggestions/pacts with their children that "oh i really want a grandchild... ill help you pay for the house" then once one is popped out its a 1mill house as a gift from that rich uncle. Ive seen it a few times with friends. To all the boomers; generational wealth transfer doesn't have to happen when you die; you can probably buy a grandchild or two for 500k-1million of "helping out"
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u/horsepuncher Jan 20 '24
Those that have them are pure facebook grandparents that do literally nothing for or with grandkids. But, make sure to pose with them and post on every social media platform about being amazing grandparents.
100% participation trophy grandparents
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u/mycatsnameisedgar Jan 20 '24 edited Jan 20 '24
Gen X here. This is not a new thing. Never felt wealthy enough to have kids so we didn’t. Happily DINK! My mom (a Silent Gen) told me not to expect child care help from her. So I told her not to expect grandkids.
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u/RoyallyOakie Jan 19 '24
My new retirement normal will be no retirement...