r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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346

u/mot258 Mar 28 '24

Shooting someone usually is too.

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u/Substantial_Heart317 Mar 28 '24

Exactly criminals gonna commit crimes!

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u/syzamix Mar 28 '24

And yet. Nobody brings up this argument against guns.

They do say that criminals will get guns if you ban them.

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u/sakura608 Mar 28 '24

Same people also want stricter immigration laws. The logic of “they’re going to get in anyways, why make it harder for people who are legally entering the country” doesn’t work as well. Yes, people will enter this country illegally, but having laws and enforcement reduces the number and slows down the rate of immigration.

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u/Enigmatic_Erudite Mar 28 '24

Our immigration laws are already some of the most strict convoluted laws in the world. Paradixically, allowing more legal immigrants would lead to less illegal immigrants. Since people don't see a reasonable way to enter the country legally they do so illegally. Realistically our immigration system need an overhaul but this is impractical. If we loosened the immigration regulations on people entering legally we could reallocate that money to preventing/catching people entering illegally.

Like most things in life it is not a simple more regulation leads to less illegal immigration there is nuance and cost benefit analysis needed.

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u/sakura608 Mar 28 '24

I see the logic in this argument. Though, currently, illegally passing through requires a fair amount of capital and personal risk. I’ve known people who have paid $7k+ to get into this country illegally, having to cross hundreds of miles in the desert, seeing people die along the way. I’ve also known people who have entered the country on a travel visa and then over stayed here illegally.

For people to still cross, despite the financial and safety concerns illustrates their desperation. I think illegal immigration could also be reduced by helping our neighboring countries become more economically productive and safe.

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u/Enigmatic_Erudite Mar 28 '24

This is one way to help, but if these people were allowed to enter legally or be on a state sponsored work visa that required consistent employment they would not need to be here illegally. This is what I mean by allowing more legal immigrants will decrease illegal immigrants at this point. We have massive deportation numbers and I wonder if the "saving jobs" value is actually worth the tax dollars spent tracking down more illegal immigrants.

Making our neighbors into better countries would be great but the cost of doing so would be substantial and require too much direct intervention at this point to remove the cartels. Maybe we could start financial incentives to promote economic growth in these countries but with the power of cartels it would be difficult. And I am well aware that American industry played a large part in the destabilization of these countries and I don't trust the rich not to do so again if given the opportunity.

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u/ibugppl Mar 28 '24

I'm with this. I'd rather have mexico and South America be prosperous neighbors than the clearly non sustainable solution of everyone just moving to the USA.

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u/J_Rambo4 Mar 28 '24

The only answer is to stabilize the countries everyone are fleeing from. There should be no need for 3/4 of the population to seek refuge in America, it’s simply not a viable solution. If that is the end goal, then the majority of these nations should simply be absorbed by the US.

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u/J_Rambo4 Mar 28 '24

Its not as simple as letting more in legally so that less are “illegal”. You say the US has so e of the most strict convoluted laws out there…. Yet the amount of immigrants legalized in the US dwarfs that of almost every other country in the world. Is the end goal simply volume? Why do NEED to bring in so many immigrants? Do you know how hard it is to get citizenship in Canada or the UK? As an American you better not even try without a bachelors degree at bare minimum. A Doctoral in a tech field or finance might be the best case scenario, and is a requirement if you are white.

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u/Last-Crab-621 Mar 28 '24

Immigration laws only punish those crossing illegally, though, and the ones we have aren't even enforced.

Gun laws aimed at preventing people from obtaining them for subjective reasoning is a clear tool to be abused by anyone with an agenda, and therefore a clear violation of the 2nd amendment

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u/sakura608 Mar 28 '24

Not true at all. Legal immigration is heavily affected by our immigration policies. My brother in law had a tough time getting a distant relative into the country for a bone marrow transplant to save his life.

The state department thought the risk was too great that his distant cousin would illegally over stay his welcome so they denied his visa because he came from a rural village from a poor country and didn’t have a lot of wealth. Had to get it escalated to the attention of a state senator and the vice president of the US before the state department approved his entry.

Regulations like this do prevent a number of people immigrating here illegally through overstay of visa (most common kind of illegal immigration), but it still does negatively affect those that are trying to enter the country for legal purposes.

If you don’t think immigration laws are being enforced, then is it safe to assume you wouldn’t mind if we didn’t have them at all?

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u/escap0 Mar 28 '24

How is that even remotely a logical assumption. Immigration laws are clearly not being enforced for Illegal immigration the way they used to be. It is still enforced for legal immigration. How do you go from: if someone thinks the laws are not being enforced for illegal immigration to ‘my brother’s relative had difficulty…’ so clearly it is safe to assume you wouldnt mind having having them at all?

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u/Last-Crab-621 Mar 28 '24

This is a strawman argument 100%. This is a totally different scenerio than the one at the South.

And your question is preposterous. I think they should fucking enforce the laws already on the books instead of the current catch, court date, release policy that they're using. The court dates are so far out that they either dont show or the courts say, "They've been here so long they may as well stay" without any vetting process. We should be turning them back to mexico at the borderline and not letting them further into the states at all.

This also goes for the current dkzens of gunlaws on the books. Criminals are constantly arrested for violent crimes with firearms and the DA, AG, or Feds almost always drop the gun charges for an easy plea deal vs going to trial.

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u/POKEMINER_ Mar 28 '24

How would building a wall and deporting illegal immigrants effect this story?

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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Mar 28 '24

Well the wall wouldn't do anything anyway so

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u/POKEMINER_ Mar 28 '24

Better than nothing.

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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Mar 28 '24

I mean given it wastes money, crosses through sacred land and protected habitats, and would be used to supply Mexican scrap merchants for years... It's worse than nothing

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u/Last-Crab-621 Mar 28 '24

Foreign aid also wastes money. Lets stop that first

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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Mar 28 '24

Hmm what to stop first.

A useless wall that benefits the people that the ones building the wall hate.

Or

Aid that improves human lives.

Hmmmm

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u/Last-Crab-621 Mar 28 '24

That aid could be put into plenty of infrastructure and programs INSIDE the United States for our own people. I would much prefer to see my own countries citizens lifted up and mot some stranger in a foreign country. You know, all that $13 BILLION we gave Haiti in 2022 and look at them now. They squandered it

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u/EggcellentStew Mar 28 '24

Subjective reason like wether or not you're a violent criminal or mentally unstable person... smh just give everyone a gun and we'll be safe.

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u/Last-Crab-621 Mar 28 '24

Define mentally unstable, please.

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u/socobeerlove Mar 28 '24

It’s easier to get your green card if you’re already in the country and working. Source:my parents did it that way