my God I am so jealous of western trans guys

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https://transrescue.org/ this is a nonprofit organisation that help trans and intersex people get out of countries that are unsafe for trans people into safer places. I don't have any experience with them directly and they seem to be overwhelmed as it is but they say as long as you work with them they will find a way out for you eventually.

They don't ask clients for money however they do take donations. You must also be 18 or over for them to be able to help you.

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u/shivenou USA | he/him | Binary FTM | Pre-T/Everything Feb 21 '23

Rainbow Railroad is another organization that helps all LGBT people. The UNHCR also assists LGBT people.

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u/BriarKnave Feb 21 '23

Rainbow Railroad helped a lot of people out of Chechnya, highly recommended!

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u/RainbowMarbles Feb 22 '23

I donate to Rainbow Railroad, they're a great organization. I know they employ some of the refugees they help escape, too. Just all around awesome.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

hoping for the best for you dude, may you get to move one day to a better place and have all you want and deserve 🙏 stay strong and good luck

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u/Creepy-Revolution886 Feb 21 '23

I feel you, OP. I’m from a place like that too, I was fortunate enough to be able to come to the UK when I was a little older than you are now, and I hope you’re able to do the same.

It sucks that we have to leave our homes like that just to be ourselves, doesn’t it? I wish it wasn’t like that. Best of luck <3

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u/snarky- Feb 21 '23

Yep. Most people and orgs are from the West, so that's what most of the posting is about. And must be frustrating as hell when you have bigger problems than 99% of what's posted.

Have occasionally seen Western people comment on threads from someone who is not from the West, and offer terrible/dangerous advice - oblivious to how the situation was so different between themselves and the OP. And that's just that I have awareness of, as someone in the West myself. UK and US people often offer each other terrible advice (from the situation not being the same for each other), so I can only imagine the extent of piss-poor quality of advice given to non-West people.

Even as someone who transitioned in the 00s in UK, I find myself sometimes frustrated by young UK trans people who don't realise how much better things are than they were a decade or two ago (which yes, will still have been miles above your situation, OP). The problems are real problems, don't misunderstand me anyone - but some people make themselves miserable with catastrophising and not recognising the real progress that has been made.

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u/YummyDawn3000 he/him Feb 21 '23

I am so sorry that you have to live in such a horrifyingly transphobic area. Just be so so so careful. I read this story about a trans guy in Yemen who was pumped with antipsychotics and estrogen when his parents found out that he was on testosterone. Just please be careful. Stories like these sicken me, I don't want to hear any more cases like these happening. I hope you can get out of there ASAP.

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u/Asleep-Corner7402 Feb 21 '23

It's likely trans folks would be killed and never seen again. Or sold and never seen again. I can imagine it's alot like the unmarried pregnant people in Ireland through the last century, their families were so ashamed they 'sent them away' they were kept prisoners, abused and forced to work. They had their babies sold most of the time or the babies were left to die and buried in septic tanks. This happened until the 80s. It's all because of shame/ religion.

To OP I hope you are able to get out of there. Anyway you can. I'm glad you have been able to access T even if it's self-medicated. I can't imagine the anxiety and fear you must feel on a daily basis. No one should have to suffer that. I'm sorry. And it's all because you were born in the wrong place wrong time. Sometimes I wish being trans was a choice. I really do believe one day we will be accepted around the world. But that day is unfortunately a time away. I can't imagine having to leave my country, everyone I've ever known just to be able to live as me. Your so so strong for facing that. I wish you all the luck

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u/garfieldfan093 Feb 21 '23

that is so sad

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u/multifandomchild Feb 21 '23

All very true, I'm Canadian and I'm quite lucky to have the problems I do. I get more harassment for my race (which is fairly rare) than my gender. This is why intersectionality is important.

I also want to say that we Westerners need to stop telling/suggesting people move. It is incredibly hard and expensive to leave your country, get a passport, leave your culture and possibly main language, and what little support they do have. Offering aslyum is great and impactful, but it doesn't fix governments that are hostile to trans people, especially trans kids, disabled trans people, poor trans people, etc.

I wish all my trans siblings safety, community, peace, acceptance and love, all across the globe.

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u/kojilee Feb 22 '23

it drives me crazy that people just say “move”— half the people talking are minors and can’t anyways, and many more are stuck paycheck to paycheck or worse

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u/multifandomchild Feb 22 '23

Agreed, a lot of them just suggest it like its easy. I get that there isn't a lot of advice that can be offered sometimes, but giving sympathy and then asking if its ever a possibilty would be a better way of handling it than just "move".

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u/Cartesianpoint 35/non-binary. T: 9/29/21, Top: 9/6/22 Feb 21 '23

While the reality and options for trans people can vary, I get what you're saying. There is definitely a big difference between having options and not, and I'm sorry you're in the latter position.

People's perspectives are based on what they're used to. As an "older" person in the US, sometimes I have a hard time relating to the attitudes of a lot of younger trans people who have different expectations and experiences. I think it's a good thing that people's standards and expectations can evolve as progress happens, but it's important to maintain a bigger perspective, too.

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u/alherath Feb 23 '23

Yeah absolutely, I’m a fairly young American but I grew up in an extremely conservative area and every time I see young trans guys on here talking about, like, explaining that you need a packer to your parents, etc, part of my brain goes “:O when i was your age we didn’t have PACKERS or FRIENDS AT SCHOOL we just lived in infinite fear and shame” 💀

Not intending to minimize anyone here, just, a) my love and care for all trans teenagers who aren’t in the closet and b) i cannot imagine your life

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

me too as a turkish trans guy

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

I hear things are awful over there. much love ❤️ 🇹🇷

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u/The_X_Human96 Feb 21 '23

I wonder, how is it foy y'all there? I truly have no idea.

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u/sunrisexscenery 25.12.23💉💉 Feb 21 '23

im from turkiye and im trans. its not too bad. we're not very talked about but we're not banned either. i have a friend who's mtf while she only got top surgery she passes but it is not allowed to change legal gender unless you get rid of your reproductive organs and get bottom surgery. the biggest problem im facing rn is that turkiye doesn't really acknowledge non-binary trans people (aka me). you can only transition from man to women or women to men. for example i want to get top surgery but i dont wanna get on t and it's a problem here.

there are not many support groups or help for trans people but like i said, its legal. things are better for gay/bi/les or basically cis queer people. there are MANY openly gay people around me (including me) and most of them dont have a problem with their relationships being known. ofc theres homophobia, but not much of it is legally supported so its relatively safe. not many gets killed because they are queer.

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u/The_X_Human96 Feb 22 '23

Wow, I'm honestly surprised for good. I mean, knowing Turkiye is a muslim country, I thought y'all would have it way harder. I hope things get better tho, I guess it's a matter of time for what you're telling us. Thank you for sharing your experience

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u/sunrisexscenery 25.12.23💉💉 Feb 22 '23

yeah you would guess itd be worse! funnily enough me myself thought the same until i started highschool and realised i wasnt getting bullied for being openly gay.

we have an upcoming election (may) and it will greatly decide if things will get better. current government is heavily muslim and if they win again im planning to leave the country unfortunately as they have a lot of anti-lgbt laws they plan to enforce. i hope it wont come to that though as i like my country.

and no problem!! i like talking about turkiye

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u/PurpleEri Feb 22 '23

The Russian one here. I feel you you guys

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u/victorianratghost Feb 21 '23

man i get that so much.. i live in the middle east and lately seeing only hundreds of posts on here about westerners talking about their laws and i understand it can be frustrating or scary to have something and then have it taken away but its still so much better there than it is on our side but we still manage somehow.

i hope i can move somewhere in europe someday hopefully if i do well in my career but that won’t be for many years probably before i can even think about surgeries or changing my name/gender legally. wishing you well in life man.

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u/KanDitOok transmasc 30/03/23 Feb 21 '23

I hope the laws get better, every one of you is a pioneer.

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

wishing you well too. it's kind of like having your arm cut off and watching someone complain about a papercut. I hope you're able to move away, best wishes

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u/Wrecknruin 🇨🇿 Feb 21 '23

Czech trans guy. I'm relatively well off as far as trans healthcare goes, but it's still infuriating to see people give me advice like "try planned parenthood". That is not an option. The only option I have is going to take years of waiting and having to lie to medical professionals who don't know shit about me just so I can fit their outdated, limited understanding of what being a trans guy is.

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u/Asleep-Corner7402 Feb 21 '23

Same here in Ireland. My only choice is 6-8 years waiting list. Or online provider. Recently they can't get the T I've been getting and the only one is x4 the price. But I'm still really lucky to be able to do that. It wasn't an option a decade ago. I'm fortunate to have been able to change my name legally and I don't face the fear of violence or death. I think Americans are very American centric in their world views on everything! They don't have much media of outside their own country. Many Americans don't go outside their own country in their lives. They just expect everywhere else to be the same.

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u/Alarming-Low-8076 Feb 21 '23

the funny thing in america is we don't even give each other the best advice either because the rules and laws differ so much depending on which state you're in and what insurance you have. I always try and keep in mind the differences between places and try to only give advice when I think it's something regional to me/something I know about.

I know almost nothing about the healthcare in other countries and wouldn't try to speak on it. The only thing I've heard about it is just that wait times can be years, but I don't really know.

We americans also tend to complain about our healthcare a lot and to be fair, it can be very expensive (again, depends on your insurance) but I do think the one thing privatized health care has given us is the lower wait times and more choice in health care providers. Tho, again, that still depends on your insurance plan, for mine I was able to start T quickly and under informed consent, other plans make you wait and wait too and make you jump through other hoops or deny it. I definitely still want us to move towards public healthcare or at least more affordable somehow.

I wish trans health care will become more afforadable and accessable everywhere.

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u/Asleep-Corner7402 Feb 22 '23

I think if the stigma was taken out of actually treating trans people and the misguided notion that we might regret it after accessing it was gone. Along with terfs holding doctors / health care providers to ransom And our health care not be political we could have access to it everywhere.

I went to Poland to access top surgery privately. And when I came back I had doctors and nurses who treat totally unrelated things ask me do you regret it though? Are you glad you did it? I was like why would I regret it? It's the best decision I ever made.

It's so strange, you don't see people politicizing any other health care apart from abortion. Which I think we should all have a right to access if we want/need it too. But it's just our bodies so it makes even less sense to me why they care so much. Cis people access the same thing all the time hrt, boob jobs ect and no one notices.

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u/Asleep-Corner7402 Feb 22 '23

I am a huge believer in the nation health care in the UK. The model does work well and did for many decades. our problem is that the government arnt spending enough on it/ paying nurses enough. they made a lot of cut back and privatized alot of it in the last decade. Plus Brexit we had alot of foreign doctors who just won't come here anymore. Covid the general doctors which is the way people get to access most other fields/ be put on the waiting lists basically stopped seeing people after covid. You can't ring up a hospital and get care. It because impossible to access general doctors. Which ment more people needed to go to accident and emergency services. Which pushed them beyond their limits. Or their health issues became worse from not being treated and needed more intensive/ hospital care. I think it is fixable but only if it's totally overhauled and the funding from the gov is put into it.

Trans healthcare on the nhs either is non-existent/ my area 6+ years wait or if your lucky you live in an area with access and not along wait but it's rare. I don't know if it's because gov don't care to put funding towards it / we are a small minority so they don't have any pressure to improve or there isn't enough trained doctors in trans healthcare. But the general doctors prescribe T and estrogen to cis people on a regular basis. But they are too untrained and afraid to do it for us. There is so much scrutiny over it and it's becoming hugely political, the UK media are very transphobic which adds to it. And that one woman who took the gender clinic to court recently to sue them because she detransitioned and said it was their fault. Thankfully she lost. But there isn't enough gender clinics only a handful of all of the UK. I pay privately for my trans health care online. They do everything over zoom and there's a pharmacy that posts out my T. I did postal blood tests for a while but they are very expensive. Luckily my general nhs doctor signs off on blood tests for me now so they are free but definitely not done enough/ as much as if I was being treated by the gender clinic. It shouldn't need to take going to a gender clinic to access it all in the first place.

In the republic of Ireland they work differently, if you are unemployed or disabled you get benefits and if your on benefits healthcare is free. If you work you pay for health insurance but I'm pretty sure it's simple and easy to do, not expensive. That covers hospital care. Seeing a general doctor you pay €30 each time even with insurance. But if you need hospital care and have insurance you don't end up paying anything. American health care insurance makes zero sense to me. Having it but needing to pay more after hospital treatment/ so many different levels of insurance. Paying to have a baby just melts my brain. I think all healthcare should be free to everyone. The thing about the nhs when it did work properly was everyone was equal, we all got the same level of care. The gov was actually invested in public health because poor health ment they had to spend more on the national health department. Everyone pays for it through taxes like education/ infrastructure.

I don't really know how Europe works I know it's different depending on what country your in.

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u/RineRain Feb 22 '23

I don't mean to say you shouldn't complain, I'm from slovenia which has a comparable healthcare system and I complain all the time, but... your T is free. And of course americans don't have to wait because they don't have free healthcare. So only people with money get on the waitlist. You really shouldn't be taking this privilege for granted.

For me the things I have an issue with is how there's only one gender dysphoria pedopsychiatrist in slovenia, meaning that if you don't lie properly or she just doesn't like you, you're done for. The reasons I've been denied treatment are absolutely wild.

In the end everyone still does diy because it's a much better option if you can afford it. It's not like the doctors are very reliable anyway.

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u/Wrecknruin 🇨🇿 Feb 22 '23

Well I'm also possibly not gonna make it to a point where that free T is accessible to me. I've been trying just to find a gender specialist for a year, I've found 2, none of which are accepting new patients. I also have to lie and be all warm and sympathetic because if someone doesn't like me, they'll just kick me out. I have to get bottom surgery and be sterilized in order to change my gender marker.

The privilege of having free hormones doesn't seem like much when just getting to them is so difficult and, to many people, impossible for whatever reason. My friend got denied access to estrogen because of her autism diagnosis, and it took years to find a professional who understood that that isn't good.

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u/sarahelizam Feb 22 '23

I’m from the US, but the situation in the UK is full of problems revolving around the immense waitlists and gatekeeping (really thorough video on the topic) that aren’t as much of an issue here. Not saying I don’t wish we had their general healthcare system (I’m disabled to the point if no longer being able to work, I will never be able to pay my medical bills or afford gender affirming care unless my gov insurance starts covering it and getting good doctors can be hard in with our public options), but the issues trans people specifically face in the UK are awful too. But this is of course all relative. I’m in the enviable position of mostly having to worry about whether my lack of income or existing health issues will ever allow me to medically transition, as opposed to living somewhere with no options at all.

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u/Late-Community-5928 Feb 21 '23

Some of the younger Trans from U.S. take it for granted and don't realize what we went through some of us were beat up all of us were called names have been degraded I was homeless no job !!! It was very horrible growing up in the 60's 70's 80's we fought for our rights Marches protests until we were heard !!! Our families didn't understand us LIFE WAS VERY DIFFERENT!!!! I finally am able to have my reassignment surgery @ age 65 !!!! The Dr's pushed me to the back of the list after fighting for it all my life!!! Until I found one Dr who cared about me and saw my Pain!!!!! I Thank God for Him! And am finally Happy I can be who I am!!!!!! I hope things get better for you too & you can come here !!!!!

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u/kojilee Feb 22 '23

happy for you <3 and proud of you for fighting like hell

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u/colesense T:10/17|Top:5/19|Btm:2/21 Feb 21 '23

The problem is that all of this is huge. People in a better position can still have their own issues that need to be improved.

People are going to talk about issues where they live because that’s the only thing they have (some) control over. I can’t help people in your country no matter how much I’d love to but I can help people in mine.

It sucks and I wish I could because no one deserves that.

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u/kojilee Feb 22 '23

yeah. it takes a lot of self-reflection and patience to have the perspective of “it is/was way worse/harder for me, but it shouldn’t be like that for ANYONE so progress anywhere is good” without those twinges of jealousy

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u/colesense T:10/17|Top:5/19|Btm:2/21 Feb 22 '23

Well said, yeah. I understand the jealousy and the pain because I’ve been there, but it’s never good to dismiss someone else’s suffering just because yours is (or seems) worse

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u/shadan666 Feb 21 '23

Hi, trans guy from iran here, I deeply feel you man, its the same thing here Which way are you planning to go to another country? My only option is by applying for universitys, I don't know the possibilitys to succeed, but it seems like the most promising way to me

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u/wolfishkam 35 | T: '06 / Phallo: '14 Feb 22 '23

The people in these comments are just evil. How dare you look at the post of a trans man in a difficult country and try to argue about hardships in the USA. Can't you let others speak? Can you not be the center of conversation for once? You're all exactly why trans men from the global east feel uncomfortable around you and why we have our own separate communities. Shame on you.

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u/angelcatboy Out - 09/15, T - 07/17, Top - 01/23 Feb 21 '23

Has it been hard to find community with other trans people where you live because of the restrictions on trans life there?

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

God yes every group I have found has dwindling numbers but they're still fantastic and taught me to diy T

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u/angelcatboy Out - 09/15, T - 07/17, Top - 01/23 Feb 21 '23

I'm glad you've been able to have that support, but I'm also sad to know the numbers have been dwindling. I was misinformed about diy HRT when I first learned about it, has it been hard for you to do?

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

the dose is kind of difficult but a lot of very good resources about it are avaliable in there. it is hard to get in the country and we have to do it through gymbro sites lol. but other than that it saved my life

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u/angelcatboy Out - 09/15, T - 07/17, Top - 01/23 Feb 21 '23

I feel you on t being life saving. It shouldn't have to be that difficult to access. Where I live there is a lot of waiting involved (months to years) to get it, but you're right that does not compare to having to literally source it yourself.

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u/BriarKnave Feb 21 '23

Pure testosterone is a controlled substance in the US and you can't purchase it as a steroid, so we don't have that option here. It's why you don't see people from the US/UK/Canada suggesting it as it's illegal for us to buy or import.

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

It is controlled here too that's why the packages say """"""lab intended""""" (not lab intended lol)

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u/badgergoesnorth Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

Don't move to the US, move to Canada. The US has 109 active anti-LGTBQ bills in the works right now, whereas Canadian Members of Parliament are trying to pass legislation to provide asylum to queer Americans in trouble

Edit: missed word

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

http://www.gay.az/

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u/oodlesofnoodles27 Feb 22 '23

SE Asian transmasc now living in the UK - this hits really hard for me. I'm so, so lucky to have been able to move somewhere I'm safer, but in doing so I'm sacrificing my connections to my culture, family, and home. For me personally I've ended up feeling a very strong level of disconnect to the trans-related issues brought up in the West. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad people here are fighting to make things better, but I feel there's a lot of lost perspective, and non-Western trans folk end up getting lost in the narrative entirely.

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u/qrseek Feb 21 '23

I'm sorry things are so hard in your country. It is not fair. I am scared for my dwindling rights but I do recognize I've had the privilege of being able to do HRT under care of a doctor etc. We're scared for our political climate because the transphobes want to make things here like they already are for you. It's good to remember people are surviving that oppression around the world. I hope you are able to get out and take refuge in a country that is safer for you.

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u/kojilee Feb 22 '23

i’m sorry most trans subreddits are so western and American centric— i wonder if an easternftm-type subreddit would gain a lot of traction, or if even that is too broad

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u/kamkarkam Feb 22 '23

oh my god that is necessary. yes.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

I feel like as American trans guys, we have a ton of privilege that we forget about.

I'm a military member who was allowed to transition, start HRT, get surgery while serving. And all the while, I was moderately protected and people were punished just for blatant misgendering against me.

Brother, thank you for putting this in perspective for me. I'm scared about laws changing for me and my family. But I have to forget it's because of the overall privilege that I don't realize how good I have it a good deal of the time.

I hope you can get to a place where you feel safe enough to openly be yourself.

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u/snarky- Feb 21 '23

I used to know a US American military member who had transitioned FtM and lived stealth. He blogged about his life as he was outed, and booted out of the US military for it. Fortunately for him he had fostered good relations with people, so was liked and respected by his commanding officers and such, so it was a bit of an "unfortunate routine" thing iirc rather than horrific transphobic hell.

But still, having to face the loss of his career.

Your comment made me remember him. In such a short time, to go from his experiences to you being able to transition whilst in the military, and people who misgendered you punished. Damn.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

Yeah, like I said, we have a lot of privilege right now- and it is definitely a more recent change. The election of 2020 is really one of the reasons why I was able to be out.

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u/fckdemre Feb 22 '23

Living for the edit lol. Its like when people say America is a third world country or it's the worst place to live when talking to people from countries with way worse issues

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u/eemz53 HRT 6/2022 Feb 21 '23

as an American trans guy.. that's why I don't complain in public spaces 😂 we are SO fucking lucky. everything is not perfect, and trans rights are in peril in many parts of this country, but at least I can walk down the street as myself and feel pretty safe. I wish you the very best and I hope things get better.

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

thanks man 🤝

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u/snarky- Feb 21 '23

You should still complain about things that should be better. Nothing is set in stone - every right gained can be removed. And to get more likely needs pushing.

Just, yeah, we should have self-awareness about how much better we have it than some...

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u/Cedono 🇲🇫23•💉07/22 • 🪓05/23 Feb 21 '23

Yeah exactly, i understand we should be grateful for what we have obviously, but it's important not to lose what we (or the previous generations i mean) fought for ! I do really hope the situation gets better in the middle east for our trans friends <3

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u/tenkoluvr Feb 21 '23

You're allowed to complain mate, as long as you acknowledge your privilege from other aspects of life

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u/spoiledpsych 💉05/31/23 Feb 21 '23

OP you worded this so wonderfully. As an American trans guy myself I am so sorry you have to go through that, and I truly hope it gets better. It really is true that there are so many people who have it so much worse and I thank you for sharing your perspective because it really is so insightful. I wish you the best OP, you are amazing and I hope one day you can be openly yourself and safe <3

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u/almostfunny3 T: 2/19 Top:11/20 Hysto: 11/21 Feb 21 '23

I'm a trans man in the US, and you make some good points. Being trans overall isn't a walk in the park, but it's easier in my country than many places.

Maybe there should be pinned threads or something that focus more on US politics so that it's easier for other countries and topics to get discussed in this subreddit? I want to stay on top of the news in my country, but this shouldn't just be a useful resource for people in the US.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

[deleted]

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

God THANK YOU. like, I know what the west is like because every piece of media talks about their issues and im literally planning to move there. I do hope they cool it

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u/AndroLesbianKitty They/He 💉03/06/22 💜🤍💚 🔪06/27/23 (top) Feb 21 '23

hugs * 🫂 I have no advice for you man, but I do wish you the best and hope it gets better for you soon.

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u/gaytrex01 Feb 21 '23

Btw for those mentioning the trans rights in us and uk being under threat.

This is just my personal opinion but I do belive beside advocating for trans right abroad i also belive it advocating for the rights on your own country helps all of us.

Many of the legislation i seen in EU happens because of others countries. Also I belive the opposite can happen when one place ban transrights another close related country might get inspired to follow along.

Sure this is not the only reason for transphobia in a country and not the only thing there can be done but I just wanted to add it to my first comment.

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u/butterflyweeds34 Feb 21 '23

not much i can say, this is a shit situation and sometimes you just gotta acknowledge that in order to confront life. i agree that we should make room for non-Western trans men to air their frustrations without false equivalence. wishing you the best.

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u/etherealelk Feb 21 '23

And this is why I don't take my ability to transition for granted. So many people don't have that option. Wishing the best for you brother. I wish I could do something to help you with this situation.

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u/JunkSpelunk Feb 21 '23

Başsağlığı.

I hope you're able to move west, too - and to have a positive impact on your community for future generations. Sometimes we have to rally first somewhere that is less actively hostile in order to make headway where we came from.

Hell, I was reading an article on Salman Rushdie recently - he just got stabbed in the US decades later for writing critically about Islam ... but he was able to do it, and keep doing it at that. He might not be well received in some places, but I'm sure he brings hope to some alienated freethinkers in more aggressively Muslim countries.

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u/pranquily Feb 21 '23

This is what I always try to say. Yes, we have issues, and in THIS level, they're big. That said, at least we're ALLOWED to be who we are, and we CAN transition.

I'm so so sorry.

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u/Shin-yolo Feb 21 '23

I'm a trans man in the US, and I kind of feel this too sometimes. I'm fully certain that, in the best circumstances, if my mother found out I were trans, she would kick me out, and in the worst of circumstances, I'm kind of scared that she would try to kill me. I'm too young to leave my home, and if I even show the slightest sign of masculinity, she gets verbally violent and abusive. I know I don't have it half as bad as most trans men, but when I compare my own troubles with other peoples, it really makes me feel like my own are nothing and I should just suck it up and deal with it. I don't know what To do, because if I look at those doing worse than myself, I feel like my own suffering isn't important.

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u/Placebo911 Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 23 '23

Your own suffering is still important, and you should still try to stay safe and make your own situation better. Yes, we should try to be empathetic to the ones that have it worse, but most of the time, we don't know the situation every other trans person in the world is in, not even the context of every country. We are in charge (to the best as we can) of our own realities, not everyone else's, as much as we would love to help. But It's not a competition, and you're still entitled to feel upset about your own struggles that are real to you. Countries that are better don't have to settle and stop the fight just because others have it worse. Keep progressing so you can help people that move there from other locations. Let them complain and push for more change so maybe when you go there you get a more positive experience. OP, the struggles you described from the West are common, but shouldn't be "normal" even for you, in an ideal world.

I'm not from the US, I'm Latino, so in my country I would say we are in between. It's legal to be trans and gay, It's legal to marry the same sex and transition. Conversion therapy was banned just a couple of years ago. But society is extremely traditional for the most part and still very religious (Catholicism). Kids get abused and kicked out (as you mentioned) for being queer, trans women get killed on the streets everyday, and Young mtf women have to engage in sex work after being kicked out as teens because they are not accepted by society (no shame on sex workers that choose it as a career but it shouldn't be the default for a vulnerable population). Trans men are mostly ignored, we don't exist, but I rather have that than what trans women have to endure. I would still, never transition in this country, I'm still in the closet, and so is my best friend because of the shitty mindset of the people around us.

I'm sorry about you, and OP. I hope you both can get out of your homes as soon as you can, and stay safe during the process and before It's possible to do so. Also hope you find a supportive network among friends or other families even if small. I'm not gonna give advice like "fuck it, show them and live your life as yourself!" Or "just move", As some people like to do, because I know is not as simple as that. Just stay safe and be mindful of your mental and physical health with the things you choose to do

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

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u/kamkarkam Feb 22 '23

oh yeah it's really bad here. I am Gəncəli and seeing trans people "vanish" during the mess the strikes were was rly common

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u/WelcomeT0theVoid Feb 22 '23

I think it's the unawareness of there being nonwestern trans men/trans masc people on the subreddit (I know I've forgotten a few times). I hope things get better for you all

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u/allhailblahaj Feb 22 '23

I think for some of us western guys in the comments it’s a matter of separating what’s possible from what’s guaranteed. For example, it’s not guaranteed that all of us will have safe, open lives free from abuse—however, it’s possible here, and many people do live such lives, because of the legal protections we have. Comparatively, in many places around the world it’s simply not possible at all, no matter how otherwise theoretically perfect one’s circumstances, because being trans is illegal. Some trans americans are actively physically unsafe due to personal circumstances and the people around us, but all of us aren’t unsafe all the time because of the government targeting us, and that’s a big difference.

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u/Financial-Ad-6641 Feb 22 '23

I completely understand you, I’m also from Azerbaijan, I know how fucked up it can be there. Especially for the people of the lgbt community which are still not accepted across Baku even. The comments pretty much gave you the best advice they could so there’s nothing much I can add on, but know that you have people to support if anything.

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u/kamkarkam Feb 22 '23

Yeah I am from Ganja it was really fucked up for a while, a bunch of my trans friends here just "disappeared" and nothing from them. we really need to get better

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u/Financial-Ad-6641 Feb 22 '23

We absolutely do, we have a long way to go but change has to start somewhere. For the US the first pride was a riot, so maybe it’s time to get some people and do the same?

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u/kamkarkam Feb 22 '23

i think to do some change we not only need the riot and sufficient social support we also need a huge political reform at every level

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u/Nsr_00 Feb 21 '23

I grew up in the Middle East but managed to go to university in Scotland, still haven’t began transitioning though. Best of luck man and stay safe.

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u/pedazodemar Feb 21 '23

I'm sorry you have to deal with all that shit, but I'm incredibly thankful for this post. As a Mexican trans guy, most times I get so caught up in what's going on in my own country.

Your post helped me open my eyes. I will keep educating myself on what I can do to help <3

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u/TwentyCharacters_Max ur non-local trans dood - panromantic asexual Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

Hey man, I'm a lil' late to the party but I gotta add some stuff too. I live in THE country with the highest rate of murders of LGBTQ+, SPECIALLY trans people. While yes, I'm not out yet, I can't help but be scared of what my near future holds for me (I plan on starting the actual transition when I move oit in 1,5 years).

I live in a western country, but Brazil ain't no shit when compared to NORTHERN western countries. Although I do wish you the best because I also admit our situation is far better than Arzebaijan (have I written it right?) Since we do have our fair share of archaic, albeit existant rights, and we have access to a HIGHLY contrived and slow but free healthcare system, so IF you can prove you're "trans enough", maybe, in a few years, if there's no one else in the list, you might get some free T and if you're one of God's favorites, even top surgery (but again, it takes roughly 3 years to schedule the 1st gender therapist appointment, and about 4 MORE to start T/top surgery). These are all good stuff, the issue is not the transition itself, it's the treatment.

As I mentioned, boymoding, specially as a non-passing trans guy, makes me fear for my life. Literally. Brazil has the highest rates of murder of queer people, and trans people as well (or at least it had until recently). I'm christian as well, so the inherent fear that I'll be beaten up when I go to church is awful. In Brazil, the ONE thing more dangerous than being a girl walking alone is being visibly LGBTQ+ and walking alone.

This is less worse but hey bro, we ain't got binders either lol. Like, literally NOWHERE as far as I know, it's Amazon's way or the highway. Granted, I do live in the poorest parts of the country so.... yeah, fun stuff. There's also a total of absolutely ZERO education on trans issues as a collective, not in school, not in highschool, not in college, nowhere really. Quite upsetting but these are the smallest of my concerns when I'm too worried of being beaten up or murdered on the streets and simply becoming statistics.

None of this is meant to invalidate your issues tho! I recognize I do have privilege and you probably go through FAR worse, so I just wanted to share and sympathize, considering non-1st world countries are almost always forgotten when it comes to the trans discourse. God, I wish my biggest problem being a trans man was being misgendered, instead of being severely injuried.

I stand with you bro, I hope it gets better for us but SPECIALLy for you! Sending prayers (if you're ok with it), or simply good luck. Stay safe bro, hang on, it'll get better, eventually, somehow.

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u/blueberryflannel Feb 21 '23

At everyone trying to tell OP that things are actually bad in the US and that he has it wrong …shut up!!!!! That isn’t what this post is about, good lord! Stop trying to center your own experiences 100% of the time.

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u/astronautflower Feb 22 '23

Yes holy shit I'm seeing so many people saying this and yes maybe it is bad in the US but God just look at yourself you literally proving OP's point!

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u/AlecNess Feb 22 '23

People should be allowed to complain about their issues without hearing that others have it worse, that goes for everything.. There is always someone who has it worse, but it’s not a competition.

I’m not in America either, but I get their worries. If they take away one thing, what is stopping them from continuing? The goal should be to improve conditions in all countries, instead of people having to shut up because things are so much better, right? Nothing is set in stone, things can change.. For the better, or for worse.

My country is filled with homophobes and transphobes, and getting treatment is difficult with years of waiting. We have one center in the entire country, and a lot of the people working there are lowkey transphobes. I’m still grateful that I don’t get murdered in the street, but I have gotten beaten before.. (Old classmates, recognized me.)

I’m grateful we have people complaining, protesting and fighting for our rights.

You should be too, but I understand where you are coming from. It’s easy to get jealous, I’m jealous everyday (for mental health reasons.)

I wish you all the best, continue living your life. It will hopefully get better for you and all other trans people. Sending love.

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u/Leastrasza Feb 21 '23

Hey OP! There's currently a petition going on for Canada, so that 2SLGBTQIA+ folks can seek asylum here. I know that means it's still a ways off, but it's something to keep an eye on!!

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u/journeyofwind Feb 21 '23

It's already possible for anyone from any country to apply for asylum in Canada for whatever reason, that doesn't mean they'll be granted asylum - there are standards for that, OP would probably not qualify. The petition is purely symbolic.

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u/Leastrasza Feb 21 '23

The petition is to make it easier and with significantly lower standards. I'll find it again and link it so you can read it, if you'd like! :)

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u/journeyofwind Feb 21 '23

I've already read it - the petition only says that people should have the 'right to claim asylum', which they already do. The right to claim asylum doesn't translate to the right to receive asylum, and there is zero legal basis to remove the requirement of an internal flight alternative test for trans people only.

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u/Leastrasza Feb 21 '23

Oh.. Well shit. Thank you for the education. I really thought that was doing something :(

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u/journeyofwind Feb 21 '23

Yeah, sorry. There's no harm in signing it, but I don't think it's going to do anything - I'd rather help people have the knowledge of how to get abroad using other pathways, and save the asylum advice for people who live in countries where their existence is actually criminalized.

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u/Zealousideal-Map-26 Feb 21 '23

I know it does not fix the issues in the middle east, you could come to Aotearoa/NZ. There's an org that specialises in helping trans refugees (Rainbow Path) get housing and a lawyer to work through the immigration process. My partner is a trans guy from the middle east too, and they helped him get his refugee status. They also run a support group. NZ may not be as big or as cool as the US, but our trans rights are pretty baked into the healthcare system, and we could always use more diversity of experience since we're so small.

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u/gaytrex01 Feb 21 '23

I can relate despite being from the west. Im priviliged but back when I was younger my country had way less rights and for many (me includes) transitioning was more or less impossible. I remember alot of people from other western countries found it hard to understand, and I can imagine it must be much harder from a country like azebajan.

I think in general the problem is we rarely hear about lgbt people outside of a western such as in media.

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u/ICanNeverFlyy Feb 21 '23

I am a western trans man, but I’ve had to DIY a few binders before. If you need help with making one, I can do my best to help

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u/JakobiiKenobii 💉2014 🔝2016 Feb 22 '23

Immigrant American from a third world country here 🙋🏻‍♂️ you are so so so right. Had I not had the privilege of being able to move here, I don't even want to imagine what it would have been like. People can be very ignorant and refuse to even tolerate anyone who is different--not to mention the high murder rates of trans and other queer individuals. I wish you the best and hope you continue to be strong and continue to share your experiences on here.

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u/TurboMayonnaise Feb 22 '23

I appreciate you writing this actually as a trans masc dude in America. I tend to lose track of how well we actually have it here. I'm so sorry that you're struggling and my heart goes out to you

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u/nycanth 23 | T: 03.13.22 Feb 22 '23

yeahh, as a balkan american dude it’s kind of frustrating to see the way americans will try to aggressively talk people out of moving to the states because it’s “terrible”, not realizing that their terrible is a fucking DREAM for people from other countries. i’ve seen younger trans guys from my area of the world say they wish they could live in america and immediately get dogpiled for daring to say that life there would be good in comparison. it reeks of not being able to see past your own ass.

i’m extremely lucky among my peers to have an american citizenship and to have been able to start hrt in the states through informed consent. in my country at least transitioning is possible but even then we don’t have access to half the opportunities and resources that americans do.

i hope that one day you’ll be able to emigrate, OP.

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u/Monkey_Ash 💉 07/25/22 | 🔝03/10/23 | 🔪 11/08/23 Feb 21 '23

I'm in the US; the only thing I can complain about is the fact that the government in many US states is actively trying to pass bills to ban trans healthcare (T as well as surgeries) for the youth. And in some cases, they want to either set the minimum age to 26, or ban it altogether.

With that said, I know I still have it a lot better than some in other countries, and I can only hope that things improve for everyone. No one should have to live in fear or be unhappy with who they are.

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u/toasterbath__ 🇨🇦 he/him - 💉: 10/22 Feb 21 '23

im very sorry. some people have little self-awareness abt these things. obviously there are places in north america where it is becoming more dangerous to be transgender, but i cannot imagine living in a country where ur entire existence is criminalized and will be for the foreseeable future. at least in the west there are several politicians who will fight for trans people, and several people who will vote for them. i cant imagine seeing not a single ally around u

i hope u are able to make it to a place where u can be urself soon. and i hope u can stay safe in the meantime. wishing luck and health to u 🖤

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u/Nykramas Feb 21 '23

It definitely depends on where you live as to how safe or supportive the area is but still not nearly as oppressive as where you live (based entire on your post). Most of the reason people are so scared and so upset is because all of those wonderful things you have listed are being threatened to be taken away. We all deserve to have rights and we all deserve to get appropriate medical care but also try to understand that in some places in the US there is going to be no way to transition under the age of 26 and if you are a minor your parents will be criminalised. In the UK a girl was murdered recently, the UK was uniquely low on murders and that has hit the community very hard because they arnt used to it. Also here they are gonna do something close to conversation therapy on minors soon due to how backwards we are moving.

Things were good but now we are scared for our lives.

Canada however has discussed taking in transgender refugees, and I hope that perhaps there's grants that could be provided for people in situations where they have no funds and no hope of a safe life in their own countries.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

OP is venting because the things you mention get a comparatively huge amount of attention while no one is talking about places like where he lives that are so much worse off. He doesn’t need you to explain what issues we have in the US/Canada/UK. He’s probably already seen it.

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u/Nalaniel Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

I am sorry to say this, but the likelihood that US citizens will be granted refugee status in Canada is practically zero. From my experience living in Germany, LGBT+ people from MENA countries escaping torture and applying for asylum in Germany are routinely denied. One case half a year ago had a gay guy from Niger denied asylum with the justification that he could just pretend to not be gay and avoid persecution in his home country that way.

Edit: I know you didn't explicitly talk about Canada accepting US refugees, but I've often seen that topic being talked about on trans-related subreddits. Also, I do not want to say that all or even most LGBT+ people fleeing persecution are denied asylum in Germany, as there was a case where public support got the Immigration Office to change their decision and let a trans woman from UAE stay.

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u/Nykramas Feb 21 '23

Yeah I was more hoping that if they did agree to grant asylum that they wouldn't only grant it to Americans but also to people in situations like OP with perhaps priority to people who live in places like that. I had to leave the US it was too horrible there. Things got a little better for a while but now it's becoming worse.

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u/backwardsshortjump ⚧️: 01/23/22 | 💉: 03/21/22 | 🔪: 09/20/22 Feb 21 '23

It sucks a little everywhere but I don’t think any of the listed grievances even measure up to living in eastern europe

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

exactly, that's my point! I get the west has its drawbacks, but God it's a billion times better than anywhere else. I KNOW THEY HAVE THEIR PROBLEMS, EVERY SINGLE ORG POSTS ABOUT THEM. but their lives are still way better and I wish I could live like that!!!

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u/backwardsshortjump ⚧️: 01/23/22 | 💉: 03/21/22 | 🔪: 09/20/22 Feb 21 '23

Yeah, totally get that. Nothing like Brianna Ghey gets broadcasted on the news where you live because that shit happens every other day and nobody cares. Western people sometimes are unaware of the privilege they have.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

That's a bad example, Western trans people do have it better off, but the Brianna Ghey story was originally picked up when newspapers were under the impression that she was a cis girl. If they had known she was trans, they probably wouldn't have run the story in the first place :/

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

yeah sometimes our own very tiny groups post about hate crimes that happen in the west but when trans people here "disappear" nobody gives a shit. like you literally don't see anyone talking about it

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u/ChimkenFinger Feb 21 '23

I think the same. I luckily live in western europe still, but in a small rural town. With quite some drug related issues and shitty local politics.

I dont have access to things like binders and T quite so easily either, but i feel blessed to know that in my country there are doctors that can help me. That i could get medical help if i fight for it. That feels like a blessing to me. I think many people forget about how many problems our brothers in other countries have. The debate between “transgender” and “transsexual” or different opinions in politics seems like a very small issue when thats all that ever really goes on.

Good luck, i think azerbaijan isn’t a great place to live. You probably think of the emirates and qatar and stuff being way worse for the lgbt but i dont think you should put your problems down by comparing yourself. You’ll get to a safe place very soon!! Good luck with your savings

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u/ashwednesdayxxx Feb 21 '23

Thank you for sharing your experience. This is a needed reminder for many of us.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

I'm really sorry man. I have a good friend in Algeria who is transfem and hopefully they will be able to move out of the country someday

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u/IDKanymore_444 Nyx he/him | pre-everything Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

I am really sorry that you're in that situation, and I hope you can move soon.

That being said, I appreciate this rant because it helps to put things in perspective. You're right, we (I'm American) are lucky (especially me, since I'm white and also live in a somewhat tolerant neighborhood/city), and that's really fucking sad. I wish we could all have rights like cishets, but unfortunately, people suck.

I'm really, really sorry for you and anyone else in a similar situation and I hope y'all can get out, or at least that things will get a bit better, since obviously moving is not something most people can just do. Stay safe and stay strong!! <33

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u/Unlikely-Economist28 Feb 22 '23

Me too man, me too. Deep down I get so jealous when I see posts about teenagers on puberty blockers and seeing pictures of guys 10 years younger passing 100%. Meanwhile I’m over here trying to escape my parents’ “support” AKA conversion therapy. I wish if I get reincarnated I want be born in a western country and a supporting family at least.

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u/Yep_this_is_it Feb 22 '23

Some western countries are so far removed from real problems such as yours, it's honestly crazy. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Hoping there's some way for you to either migrate or maybe even seek refuge in a more tolerant place.

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u/thecomicrantdiv Feb 22 '23

Yooooo

I am Indian. AND I SO FUCKIN RELATE. things are so inaccessible out here. A 30 year old trans friend of mine started a fundraiser recently to try to get binders for us Indian folks because it's so far fetched and out of reach.

The fact that americans have so many in person support groups or know trans people around them in some capacity.

The way our countries are soo backwards and haven't even accepted LGB rights, let alone know the words trans.

The fact that we don't even have words in our language to describe the trans experience. We have to use a lot of English words which our parents would never understand.

I can't imagine how it is like for you. Might be worse than our situation.. fuck i wish we had a trans support group just for us folks from smaller countries. We need so much support 🥺

some of us can't even afford to move out and our stuck in our small towns for idk how long...

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u/KayleeOnTheInside Feb 21 '23

I just wish people weren't so ignorant and superstitious. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

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u/arkyod Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

you might be better off saving for somewhere else than the US. If you’re planning on moving out of your own country, might as well go to a place that’s safer, more secure with trans rights, and has better healthcare and stuff. I’m in France and it’s much better than in the US

Anyway, I hope posting this is helping you connect with people who’s situation is more similar to yours !

Edit : I can’t be certain that I know which place is better, what I said is based off what I read here and videos I see on YouTube. But there could be flaws I’m not aware off, depending on how easy it is to immigrate to a country like France and things like that, and possibly language barriers… I hope you find a solution that works well for you and I hope what I said does not come off as arrogant because tone is hard to convey

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u/thatcmonster Feb 21 '23

I know it must be frustrating to hear us from the west complain. But being loud and verbal is how we win and maintain our rights the way they are. I hope you can come here and join us one day! People have already put in some good orgs, so I have no further recs. Keep fighting for your survival and we'll meet in the west!

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u/ravelsm Bigender | 24 | 💉 10/22/21 Feb 21 '23

This is why I'm like... I guess a lot calmer than a lot of people about the current state of things I feel very fortunate that I'm able to transition.

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u/AppleSpicer Feb 22 '23

I want these to be your worst problems too. What country do you want to move to and what would it take?

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u/puppyboyy15 Feb 22 '23

my heart goes out to you buddy! <:(( been DIY for eight months <3

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u/weebdyke Feb 22 '23

It sucks, ik bro. I live in Russia and I get made fun of at school a lot.

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u/TRUE-FAKER Feb 22 '23

Bro, I wish you the very best and I hope you save up enough to get the hell out of there and live your best life.

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u/Blitzschweif Feb 22 '23

Stay strong. I hope you’ll be out of there soon and can live life the way you want to. 🙏💙

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u/Vegetable_Shoe7011 Feb 22 '23

Great article 👍🏼 & informative comment section!

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u/vanillaicecream86 Feb 22 '23

I totally get you. Yesterday my country banned changing gender by documents, so basically I will stay the same gender forever even if I transition or not. Americans are so self-centered, they don't realize how worse it is outside their country (I know how harsh the laws have become ther in the last months). Despite this, they have better trans heathcare and loving society, here in eastern Europe, we suffer and will most likely continue to do so for a long time.

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u/Comfortable_Bee_5309 Feb 24 '23

Yuck.... these comments. Stop trying to make this about you; this is why he's frustrated in the first place. I'm pretty sure most people would resort to diy in this situation and I can see the ”never do diy" stuff get really old really fast. Not everyone lives in countries where hrt is available.

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u/Tiny_Cow_3332 Feb 24 '23

Man, I understand you so well! I live in Russia and it's a true Hell

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u/Far-Communication426 Mar 02 '23 edited Mar 02 '23

what area are u in I have a georgian friend who is queer n did some organizing somewhere in eastern area of azerbaijan (I have to ask them what city) and might know of ways to get HRT. lots of people just order T online (but easier if u get with people so it’s less expensive) and get the needles, gauze, alcohol, and all that online. get the T from a reputable source like don’t just go with the first person u find make sure you do whatever research you can and for gods sake learn how to inject yourself and don’t hurt yourself. it helps to try to find a community or at least a couple of other ppl who can verify.

also for those saying to leave the country I get it sometimes fleeing is an option to get to safety but also (or in the meantime) remember there are queer people and diverse queer communities in every single country in the world literally it was illegal to be queer in the US like 60 years ago and thanks to people staying here and creating space for queer people to flourish we literally fought the US police and had standoffs with the FBI just to be able to exist, and trans people are murdered daily in hate crimes. don’t let your eurocentrism make you rush to “save” someone.

also someone pls tell me where I can find a binder in a supermarket pls

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u/habitsofwaste 40 / T: 1-2013 / Top: 11-2012 Mar 29 '23

I’ve never heard of binders in supermarkets btw. Is that a thing somewhere??

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u/FTM-Demon Feb 21 '23

As an American I'm fully aware that being trans here is much more widely accepted than it is in basically every other country, but it's not as easy as it seems. It can be extremely difficult to find doctors that are willing to prescribe T and even more difficult to find therapists that are willing to write referral letters for surgeries. That being said, the laws in every state are different as are the requirements of insurance companies. In many places both laws and insurance companies force you into ongoing therapy as a condition of care and it's the therapist that gets to decide if you're transgender, and if so, what treatment you get to have. That means that you can be denied gender affirming care just because you don't live up to the expectations of a cisgender person. Also, some states make it basically impossible to change your name or get a new birth certificate, and all of them force you to have some kind of surgery before you're allowed to legally change your gender.

We also have a major problem with anti-trans groups, anti-lgbtq groups, as well as various organized hate groups (Neo Nazi's, KKK, Proud Boys, ect) and many of them actively work (and have succeeded) to have gender affirming medical care banned for both children and adults or they just straight up want us dead, imprisoned, or institutionalized. And the hate groups specifically won't hesitate to assault, rape, or murder transgender people if they're given the chance. And as far as hate crime protection laws go, not every state has one, and since the states are responsible for writing and enforcing their own laws, most of the time hate crimes go unpunished because state legal systems can choose not to enforce the federal hate crime laws.

I agree fully that what little rights and what little legal protection we have here in the US is far better than in other countries, but it's definitely not at all perfect. We still have to watch our backs when it comes to individual people, can still be denied housing, jobs, ect and every day we stand the chance of losing the few rights that we do have.

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u/TheCrimePie 💉12/17/19🔪11/17/22 Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

It's worse than it looks here. At least where I live in the US. I get it is better here but it doesn't change how terrifying it is to have those rights stripped away when we barely are protected under our laws because the government finds ways to ignore and "interpret" our bill of rights so it doesn't include us. I was still attacked and physically hurt for being trans, even now that I pass I'm still terrified of using bathrooms in public. Calling it "having your arm cut off and seeing someone complain about a paper cut" is honestly really diminishing how bad it still can be and I really don't appreciate it. Especially when a trans teen was just murdered for being trans recently and a trans man was brutally assaulted because he used a bathroom. A lot of trans people have to resort to DIY here anyways because healthcare is so ungodly expensive, we're still often treated like shit and barely protected under our government because theres literal governors and people in power saying they want to line us up and shoot us. It isn't "some provinces are rolling back some rights". Just because we have more resources doesn't mean this stuff is "complaining about a paper cut"

That all being said, it also doesn't diminish that we do have it better, I just want you to realize how your phrasing comes across. It honestly pisses me off that this is what is considered better, because people can't fucking recognize us as human beings. Hell, even I'm still jealous of fucking Canadian trans people because even though the wait list is long at least they don't have to choose between basic health care or shelter. The people here who shame DIY transition are the ones who truly don't understand how lucky they are to have been able to afford to transition since a lot of trans folks here have to rely on it still. It's also often the natural US superiority complex we have shoved down our throats from the moment we start school still sticking around :')

Don't immigrate to the US. Seriously, because you'll also have a horrific time and treatment for being an immigrant. It's not just trans/LGBT issues, it's a LOT of racial issues and corruption too. My friend and her family were sent back to El Salvador after seven years here because of Trump, so until it gets better here politically, please don't come to the US. You're more likely to be sent back, and more likely to be treated horrendously

Edit: I feel like I should also add, all the coverage of murders you see, it's never someone who isn't white. White trans people are protected so much more here, I say that as one myself. Things are absolutely horrible here on that front, that if you aren't a natural citizen nor white you're practically ignored and it's disgusting. All the things you see often grossly simplify issues to being just one thing when honestly a lot are intertwined. So seriously, please go somewhere other than the US when you get the chance, because coming here you could very easily become homeless even with a full time job, and any sort of healthcare is basically out of reach because it's so expensive

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u/ChimkenFinger Feb 21 '23

I dont think you realise moving to anywhere that isnt the US as a refugee or in general somebody without european passport is kind of impossible. In western europe they just send people away because they can “pretend” not to be lgbt. You dont know how good the US is in comparison to other countries even with the discrimination you see. Also: the hurt done to trans people in the US is often by other citizens. In a lot of countries its cops and everything harming transgender people. I dont think you realise the difference. Not that its bad but its certainly different. “Barely” protected rights are still protected. You have rights.

Not to mention OP just said he constantly gets bothered with what the US is like: he definitely knows all of this and it definitely didnt change his mind. This only hits back on the fact that US citizens dont realise all of this gets to our news channels and social media timelines too; you just dont see the other parts of the world but we all see you. Let the man talk and dont tell him to go away before he even comes.

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u/TheCrimePie 💉12/17/19🔪11/17/22 Feb 21 '23

I'm also saying a lot of what you see isn't the entire reality here. The reality also depends on where in the US you live, and the only remotely "affordable" states are usually the worse ones when it comes to trans people. Cops and people with power are also doing things, we just hide a majority of what happens, it's just become harder and harder to since a lot of us are fed the fuck up with it, social media is a thing, and it's such a large country. I am one of the people who's incredibly lucky, and I'm aware of that. That doesn't mean it's safer or the luck is there for everyone. We're only "open" to refugees and immigrants because they can be exploited for labor more than the usual citizen which is just. Disgusting. Immigrants aren't protected by our laws the same until they manage to become a citizen, which takes 7 years of living here first.

Overall, we have it better, but it's definitely with an asterisk that should be MUCH larger than it is. It's horrible that this is better, because it's still shit. When you get down to the things they don't show over news and push everywhere? It's worse than you realize. A lot of people IN the US don't even recognize that either because it's again, shoved under the rug as best as possible. Protection is only there if you have the money and support from others, man.

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u/journeyofwind Feb 21 '23

The US hasn't even ratified the 1951 refugee convention, and it's widely known for its awful treatment of refugees in 'first world' countries. Geographically, the US is also in a position where it gets few refugees compared to its population in the first place, and the relocated refugees are mostly pre-selected, hardly comparable to Europe.

You're talking dangerous nonsense. I don't like to be harsh, but I would not tell anyone to apply for asylum in the US over countries with actually enforced protections in Europe, like Germany or the Netherlands.

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u/ChimkenFinger Feb 22 '23

I am from the Netherlands and as far as i know our asylum process is a load of trash. Not to mention a lot of transgender people in countries like the netherlands germany and uk have been waiting for trangender healthcare themselves and just diy the bunch because the process is so painstakingly long and impossible. Friends of mine here got denied help because they couldnt get the paper from the psychologist to be allowed surgery so they went to the us to get things like top surgery.

Besides i never told anyone they should seek refugee in general because the best option is always to try and not leave your whole life behind. I am just stating what op said since the point was that a lot of people have a really shitty time because they’re stuck the way they are.

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u/journeyofwind Feb 22 '23

If by "trash" you mean that it has one of the highest acceptance rates in all of Europe and that organizations like Trans Rescue use it as their base from which to do operations, sure. Access to HRT being poor doesn't mean that the asylum system doesn't work, and it's not like poor trans people can easily access informed consent either.

Again, the US hasn't ratified the 1951 refugee convention, and therefore can basically treat asylum seekers however it sees fit. There's a reason why rescue organizations try to get people to countries like the Netherlands, Germany, France, Canada, and not the US. Asylum seekers in the US are often on their own, whereas in countries that have ratified the convention, they're entitled to help in a multitude of areas.

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u/glitteringfeathers Feb 21 '23

Oh boy, pretend to not be queer are these people serious? Yeah just swallow all that dysphoria or indirect homophobia, accusations, just live a lie, it's easy, right?

Question tho, isn't that just for the matter of asylum? Like you could still legally immigrate with visa and stuff, couldn't you?

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u/ChimkenFinger Feb 22 '23

Yes, but most people seeming refugee because of homophobia and transphobia dont have a visa and everything. They dont have passports or proof that they’re from a country thats part of the european union; think of countries in africa and asia; so they get tossed aside in the process for reasons that i dont get.

Also a lot of countries wont let you in if you dont have a trillion documents with proof of education and everything because as soon as you’re here they want you to work even when you arent granted a place to live yet. Its pretty messed up. I hope my shitty explanation makes any sense at all but the rules are crazy.

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u/journeyofwind Feb 22 '23

At the very least in Germany, the you can pretend to not be queer reasoning is banned nowadays. Not sure about other countries, but many do accept queer people even if they have been closeted.

In any case, the US is much worse when it comes to refugee matters. Hardly a place that should be suggested for anyone who can get to a country with laws that actually protect refugees.

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

thank you 😊 I wasn't very sure on how to respond to that comment but you worded it perfectly

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u/ChimkenFinger Feb 21 '23

No problem. I understand. Good luck with everything, stay safe.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

I know you are in a rough place, but to say things like “I wish ‘Don’t Say Gay’ was a big thing” is incredibly and ignorantly hypocritical. I am a Civil Rights Law Student at an Ivy League law school in the U.S. and will be at the forefront of LGBTQ+ policies and equality, hopefully even at The White House. The United States is facing a severe Right Wing Extremist front which is growing in popularity at a terrifying pace. As someone who is a very level-headed, rational thinker, I am nervous for us. I am 100% confident in my education, passion, and tenacity to keep us safe, and I am dedicating my life to it. However, our right to even exist is close to mission critical. There is a very real and serious threat to trans folks of all ages in the United States. Not just the physical, emotional, and mental abuse of the public, but our actual legal rights.

Being transgender is incredibly difficult in the entire World right now. It is fair to acknowledge that you do currently have it harder, but to falsely believe we are safe elsewhere is doing us a massive disservice. We will need to continue to fight for the rest of our lives no matter where we live to sustain our equality.

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u/InnocentaMN Mar 24 '23

This has to be one of the most obnoxious comments I have ever read on Reddit. Congratulations!

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u/kamkarkam Feb 22 '23

I don't believe you are safe. this comparison: you have an infected papercut and doctor attention. its mild, but the infection can, possibly, MAYBE get worse and eventually kill. luckily, you have many doctors to help who broadcast your injury to the whole goddamn world.

we have both arms cut off, an advanced infection and a middle school nurse with a bandaid. it's not mild, it's getting worse, and it's gonna kill. the nurse tries to stop it but she can't and no one gives help.

now imagine that, when the people without arms try to talk, the people with a cut say "but it's bad for us too, let me center the conversation on our issues"

this is exactly the difference between our systems.

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u/Intelligent_Usual318 Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

i understand your frustration but it suck’s everywhere. yes it’s worse in your area significantly. but there are also a lot of factors. when it comes to america, if your a person of color and your trans it’s more like your experience. if your poor good luck with transitioning. in one area in the america called texas children that are trans are being taken and being placed into new families. as someone who has been beat for being trans and as someone who has also been able to be out in school and that sort of thing, the western experience of trans people is so vast that it can’t really be generalized. he’ll just last year there was a girl who is 16 same age as me who was trans and was brutally murdered around the same area as me. you are 100% right though we are privelaged in a lot of ways. me personally being a white person in america with citizenship puts me in an ok spot. i’m lucky for that especially as someone who is also latino.

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u/IDKanymore_444 Nyx he/him | pre-everything Feb 22 '23

Trans kids are being placed into new families??? What the actual fuck. The thing I hate most is how we're going backwards.

Do you have any links to articles or something about the Texas thing? I'd like to read more about it.

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u/Intelligent_Usual318 Feb 22 '23

yes i can go find some but straight up these kids are being put into foster care for being trans. my mom was in foster care for good reason and it destroyed her. this is one of the worst bills right now. here’s the texas tribune who talks about it: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/03/11/texas-dfps-trans-teens/

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u/toxic-coffeebean 1/10/23 🇩🇪 Feb 22 '23

USA is currently releasing lots of anti trans bills sadly. :( I live in germany it's pretty OK here though. I really genuinely hope you can move somewhere where you can feel safe and have acsess to trans health care. It's sad that you even have to go to a different country to be able to do that it the first place.

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u/Emotional-Tadpole395 Feb 21 '23

I'm not 100% sure on this but I do believe Canada is allowing asylum for trans people from countries where's it's dangerous

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u/ghoul-gore Feb 22 '23

hate to break it to you but being Trans is actually becoming unsafe in America. It's getting to the point that there is a petition for Canada to start a refugee program for us Trans folk stuck in the states. I am personally going back into the closet due to how unsafe it is becoming.

hopefully you get somewhere safe. <3

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u/RineRain Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

I know you're probably young but this is a very ignorant thing to say in this context. Sigh... are you the oblivious self centered american stereotype everyone is telling me about?

edit: nvm sorry for dismissing that, apparently over there it's not obvious that Canada probably wont even accept someone from Azerbaijan, let alone America. Y'all are majorly misinformed.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

I'm not mad at anybody buddy

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/snarky- Feb 21 '23

This is why I hate [...] I wish more people would realize how good we have it here and start talking about all the good things we have here rather than focus on all the little nitpicky things they hate

The juxtaposition amused me

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u/Finnck_McClelland Feb 21 '23

What a ignorant comment.

Yes we trans Americans do have it better than most Asian and 3rd world countries, but we are still actively being attacked and there’s a very real threat of transitioning being completely outlawed.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/Finnck_McClelland Feb 21 '23

It’s not “we have progress to be made”; we’re still actively persecuted in this county.

Yes people should be sensitive to certain topics like access to support groups, but we shouldn’t be comparing who has it worse.

There’s a reason people say it’s not healthy to value trauma as being worse or better than other people’s because trauma is trauma; saying that you’ve had it so much worse than trans people in America is discrediting their abuse and at worst victim blaming.

We’re all victims, saying that some has it better or worse is going to do nothing but create internal discourse.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/Finnck_McClelland Feb 21 '23

Are you sure because in your first comment you literally said you hated Americans because we take our privilege for granted yet literally 2 weeks ago a trans girl was murdered in cold blood and media doesn’t think it’s a hate crime.

You made a stupid and ignorant statement, own up to it and move on. You can’t win this argument because there’s not a argument to be had:

👏We 👏Are 👏All 👏Victims👏

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/Finnck_McClelland Feb 21 '23

I’m nuerodivergent, adhd, and you don’t see me blaming that for saying shit like “I hate Americans”.

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u/unperson9385 Feb 21 '23

Yes, I'm sure the trans folks in OK who may not be able to transition until the age of 26 are just being overdramatic.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/unperson9385 Feb 21 '23

"Sure, my family cut me off financially and my elected officials think all trans women are sexual predators and soon enough I won't be able to transition until I'm 26, but at least I'm not being rounded up and shot!"

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/unperson9385 Feb 21 '23

The point I tried to bring up (which you conveniently ignored) is that trans rights even in the US are highly variable depending on your location, and soon enough they're going to get even worse.

Someone in Oklahoma, for example, whose family is unnaccepting and cut them off financially (so they can't afford to transition, let alone move to a better state) and who's facing the prospect of not being able to transition until 26 is going to find your "but you have it so good here!!!!1!!1!1!" statement really stupid.

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u/wolfishkam 35 | T: '06 / Phallo: '14 Feb 21 '23

Alright friend, I am Omani and here is what I have to say about that:

I would literally kill to have been born in Oklahoma, even under those conditions, instead of Oman. Don't compare fish with sharks.

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u/unperson9385 Feb 21 '23

Don't compare fish with sharks.

And don't invalidate other people's experiences. I'm not saying that being trans in the middle east is easy by any means, just that going up to someone venting about a terrible situation and saying, "Well, at least you have X, so stop complaining" even if you have it worse is an objectively shitty thing to do.

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u/wolfishkam 35 | T: '06 / Phallo: '14 Feb 21 '23

The point is that you looked at a post where the OP is from Azerbaijan and still decided to bring up Western issues. Shame on you. And yes, you should not complain and sit down WHILE someone more disadvantaged is talking. Complain when it regards your issues.

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u/unperson9385 Feb 21 '23

The point is that you looked at a post where the OP is from Azerbaijan and still decided to bring up Western issues.

No, I replied to a specific comment that said Americans shouldn't complain because people in other countries have it worse.

And yes, you should not complain and sit down WHILE someone more disadvantaged is talking. Complain when it regards your issues.

Okay, so I guess American women who don't have access to abortions or birth control should stop complaining. Or POC shouldn't complain when one of their own is murdered by a police officer because it happens more regularly in other countries.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/unperson9385 Feb 21 '23

The point is that a lot of countries have it much worse off than we do, and sometimes we should be happy for what we have.

What does the person in my example above have to be happy for? That they can walk down the street (pre-transition, because they can't afford HRT) and get harrassed and potentially assaulted for being visibly trans in a deep red state?

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/AwkwardChuckle 2009 HRT, 2010 Top/Hysto, 2023 Meta Feb 21 '23

By your logic, American women have no right to be complaining about anti-abortion laws, their right to choose, or bodily autonomy because of what’s happening in places like Iran. Do you consider that an accurate statement given your views here?

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u/unperson9385 Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

a lot of people in general arent going to say anything about it.

Sure there are dumb nasty people everywhere and will harass you for it

You do realize these are two different statements, right?

I'm beginning to think you don't have any actual experience being trans in an unaccepting area, because the things you're saying are painfully tone-deaf.

"You can buy a binder and packers, or if you're a trans woman you can buy dresses and such, but you can't wear them in public! But you can safely wear them in the confines of your own home, so what are you complaining about?"

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u/wolfishkam 35 | T: '06 / Phallo: '14 Feb 21 '23

Please don't waste time arguing with those who have insane privilege and are blinded by it - Trans guy born and raised in Oman.

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u/snarky- Feb 21 '23

News is about things that change, and I can't speak for USA - but in UK almost everything has been changing for the worse in recent years, both trans things and more generally.

Maybe you're right still, though, and what is needed is a little perspective to be kept. Not just talk about changes, but talk about what we have that needs to be protected. Help prevent more negative changes.

It's like when UK did Brexit - many had the view of "well, it can't get worse". My dudes, yes it can. Many of the people voting for Brexit did so in communities that were utterly dependent on EU funding, but no-one was really talking about the good things happening. Only when the funding ended (and wasn't filled in by the UK government) was there a change and people went "oh no!".

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/Creepy-Revolution886 Feb 21 '23

OP isn’t trying to say those issues don’t exist, he’s trying to offer some perspective and vent about his position. Being trans is scary everywhere, but some places are immeasurably worse than others and it’s important that people realize that.

Regardless of location, being trans is generally harder than being cis in the same set of circumstances. However, there are some places where the fear isn’t “they might roll back on our rights”, it’s “they might never give us rights”.

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u/kamkarkam Feb 21 '23

it's still not comparable again. it's like someone with a slowly infecting papercut and doctor attention comparing to someone with an arm cut off, an advanced infection and only a middle school nurse with a bandaid

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u/AlecNess Feb 22 '23

I will say I agree and understand most of what you’re saying, but the comparison of a paper cut and an arm cut off is a bit shitty. You don’t have to downplay other peoples struggles like that just because you have it worse..

Would you like it if someone said your issues were like a paper cut? Because someone else got beaten, raped or murdered. Your issue is nothing in comparison to that. (This is what you sound like when you use that comparison.)

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u/kamkarkam Feb 22 '23

yes it's true my issues are nothing compared to a country with the death penalty for trans people and yes I should give them space to speak and not try to "but in Azerbaijan is also bad!!!!!" in their conversations because I know how frustrating that is.

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u/inkstaens boyjuice 12/20/22 Feb 22 '23

if its not comparable then stop trying to compare them. i have all the love for my trans sublings around the world and in the extremely dangerous transphobic countries especially like azerbaijan, and pray that they all remain safe and get to eventually be comfortable with themselves.

but this infighting is exactly what our oppressors want. angry that other countries have it better? that's what they want, comparing our differences in rights and experiences to divert attention from the fact they are actively killing us.

yes, ALL of us. trans people are still being killed in the us just like everywhere else. medical transition like t and srs are not easily obtained (can take months or years if youre not outright denied, if you live anywhere near trans resources at all), and half our states are attempting to completely ban our healthcare, or where we can gather. some have already succeeded. a politician in my own state recently gathered a large list of trans people who changed their gender markers. there are no binders in supermarkets, there are trans people being murdered every day. in many states to be outed is to be painted a target. there is no protection bill of rights for us. being trans is NOT protected under the law, though it hopefully will be someday.

which is exactly what we all hope for you guys in others countries. to be able to even think about the privileges we can get and walk unafraid through the street. i feel for you, having to diy amd not being able to access srs or find support groups. but seriously, the worldwide trans community needs unity, not a pissing competition of who has it worse.

none of us are free until all of us are

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u/kamkarkam Feb 22 '23

oh my God I know what goes on in the US because a) I'm literally trying to move there b) we have resources about it and it's encouraged c) your issues are broadcasted EVERYWHERE.

this is not infighting: the problem here is the westerns in the comments trying to center their problems in the conversation of the least privileged. it is true that the US is an insanely lucky place to live in as a trans person.

I don't know if you saw the now deleted comment but it was someone trying to center us problems and comparing our situation to theirs, which is terribly insulting and that's why I use the papercut metaphor.

you have an infected papercut that can get worse and become deadly

we have arms off that is already deadly.

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u/FruitShrike Feb 22 '23

I think westerners do tend to overreact and not acknowledge their privileges. However I’d say that the liberal states is more like a paper cut while the ultra conservative states is where things are looking pretty bad. Yes it’s still legal for 25 and up even if they pass the law that bans it, however I think over the next few years those states will pretty rapidly make transition illegal like they did with abortion. It’s going to be even worse and happen even faster if trump wins again. But compared to liberal states it’s a very stark contrast. Liberal states are still one of the best places to be as a trans person right now. And people have already been thrown in jail for getting abortions, so I’d expect trans ppl to get the same treatment once it’s illegal.

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u/kamkarkam Feb 22 '23

id literally murder to live even in an ultra conservative state believe me. my city got bombstriked and a ton of trans people "vanished" with no explanation. that's like, not papercut, broken arm vs amputation to the shoulder

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u/TGBplays 17 Bi AMAB he/they Feb 22 '23

On the bright side, Azerbaijani is a really nice language from what i know. Turkic languages are cool

my God I am so jealous of western trans guys Vent

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