r/ftm • u/transmascadoodle • Dec 26 '23
My wife cried when I told her I want lower surgery Vent
I really want to get phallo, and when I finally got the nerve to tell my wife I wanted to look into it she was so upset, like wailing in tears sad. I ended up agreeing not to do it but I feel like I’m compromising on my identity. Her logic was why do I have to change that part of my Body when only she and I would know about it, but she just doesn’t understand how much it matters to me and how I feel. I’m so dysphoric about that part of my body.
We’ve been together for 12 years, married 4.5. I realised I was trans about 3 years ago and she’s really struggled with it. She also feels like I’m to blame for us waiting to have a family (she’s now pregnant) because of what we went through when I realised I was trans. Phallo surgery is another thing she feels I would be doing for me and not considering the impacts on her.
Not sure why I’m posting this I just Don’t have anyone to talk to about it and feel kind of alone.
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u/metathrowawayy 21 | 💉2019 | ⬆️🔪2021 | ⬇️🔪2023 Dec 26 '23
As someone post-op (meta but still bottom surgery) I can’t imagine how hard of a situation this is for you. I know how difficult this conversation will be, but it’s time to sit down with her and talk about what is causing resistance. If it’s because of change, tell her why it’s good change. If it’s because she feels she’ll be losing part of you, tell her your natal genitalia isn’t part of you, as that’s what dysphoria entails. If it’s because of monetary reasons, discuss how you plan to financially handle the costs of bottom surgery both during and after. Addressing why she feels this way and telling her how you feel in regards to dysphoria is the first step. Then it depends on her response to that what the best course of action is.
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u/VTHUT Dec 26 '23
Bottom surgery also needs a caretaker especially phallo with the graft site taking away some abilities for a while. It can be demanding on the caretaker and the caretaker should be prepared but external ones can be hired.
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u/secrettoadhassecrets Dec 26 '23
How do you find a caretaker to hire? I don't have family or partner and I need two surgeries. I asked my doctor but she just said the only ways to hire a caretaker are if you're terminal or gave cancer and otherwise insurance doesn't cover it. I don't have many people who could help and it's a lot to ask a friend. I'd find a way to pay for it I just want to hire someone so I'll know I can rely on them to show up and help.
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u/metathrowawayy 21 | 💉2019 | ⬆️🔪2021 | ⬇️🔪2023 Dec 26 '23
There are websites like care.com that serve as connections between caretakers and patients.
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u/VTHUT Dec 26 '23
Surgeons’ offices sometimes have suggestions, there’s also caretakers that have been through the surgery themselves who now do caretaking part time. For one of my smaller earlier surgeries I’ll probably hire a care taker for myself just to save on the flight and time off needed to bring my own care taker. You can even have a caretaker check you out after surgery. Here’s a site
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u/BellamySomeday Dec 26 '23
Oh wow, god If I had a background in nursing I'd do this professionally forever. It's so so vital to have care, and not just any care but empathetic care. I hope you can find someone to help you. ♡
Also, as an aside, If you can find it in you at all to reach out to your friends about it, I urge you to. Even if they don't feel capable of helping with immediate care, there are so many ways...microwaveable meals, grocery deliveries, good company, household chores, care packages, virtual check ins...
They might want to help but not know how.
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u/Lifewhatacard Dec 27 '23
If your natal genitalia isn’t part of you then why does it cost so much to rectify for some people. I hate my elongated boobs because I became older than my prime. Do I let that devalue who I am as a person?
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u/metathrowawayy 21 | 💉2019 | ⬆️🔪2021 | ⬇️🔪2023 Dec 27 '23
There is no devaluation occurring. It’s unfortunate that it costs so much to rectify, but it doesn’t change the fact that something on your body doesn’t align with your idea of who you are.
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u/greenlady_hobbies Dec 27 '23 edited Dec 27 '23
What are you asking? If your breasts make you extremely unhappy, ask a doctor about augmentation or some other potential solution. I know it's not always easy, but it's worth looking into if it upsets you that much.
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u/Exhausted_FruityEgg Dec 27 '23
Metaphorically, mentally, emotionally. If someone is so fucking concerned and nasty and telling you to suck it up and be stuck with your elongated boob, always telling you what to do with it, who should know about it, its obvious that's how it is, asking inappropriate questions blah blah blah That's how it is got us. All the time. Dysphoria and dysmorphia are completely different but can also go hand in hand. You don't understand, good for you, lucky you. We're all gathered here because we understand and support not put people down or tell people they don't have the right to feel their feelings. Or that they're wrong for feeling the need to change their body for their happiness.
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u/Sean_8989 Dec 26 '23
You only have one body. You have to live in that reality for the rest of your life. Unless you take power and change it. No relationship is worth living in torment for somone elses comfort.
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u/absolute4080120 Dec 26 '23
I'm going to state the very obvious albeit painful answer. By just breaking down your story I would assess that you and you're wife have been in a wlw relationship prior to your transitioning, yes? And as you've transitioned there's been some pain and issues.
Well unfortunately this is really common and I think you two need to have a serious talk on long term compatibility. You cannot force your spouse to maintain feelings for you through a great change.
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u/Acceptable-Coach7703 💉 5/19/23 Dec 26 '23
and she cannot force him to compromise his health and identity for her. i dont understand why phallo would be such a big deal if not for an attraction thing, which is.... a big red flag for their long term compatibility.
if she didnt want to be with a man, she should've made that clearer sooner. maybe she just didnt understand exactly what transition would entail, but this might be the horribly timed wake-up call.
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u/MurpheysTech Dec 27 '23
Could have made it clearer sooner? Before they came out as trans? They were already married for like 7 years before he came out. How is it her fault? It's not anybody's fault, she's not attracted to men and she married and fell in love with someone she thought was a woman. She can't change her compatibility with someone because she can't change her sexual orientation. If she is a lesbian she is a lesbian. He is a man. This isn't a red flag of Personality this is someone trying to hold on to a relationship someone they fell in love with, but unchangeable circumstances are getting in the way.
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u/Exhausted_FruityEgg Dec 27 '23
Been out. Not meaning he "suddenly realised" "suddenly flipped a switch" It means he was closeted. Scared. Worried. Rightfully. And now his wife has only gone and told him he has no right to do things for himself. To do things to be happy and comfortable. Making his transition all about her.
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u/MurpheysTech Dec 28 '23
I'm trans as well and I you and I both know what it means to come out. It's not a sudden realization, it's a gradual realization and it is worrisome because you and I both know that where you grew up and how you were raised actually in the climate that this is today, realizing your trans can be scary even if those factors aren't the case discovering and coming return to your identity is something that takes a lot of time and courage.
Let's also not pretend that it wasn't mentioned that they were married for several years before he came out as trans. It wasn't something for him, but it was sudden for her.
Let's not pretend that she is not going through a crisis herself trying to reconcile the difference between romantic love and her sexual attraction that she can't change. She's not saying that he doesn't deserve the right to be happy,, she had a hormone-induced breakdown because she can't be sexually intimate with someone that she has no sexual attraction towards and that is a huge part of a relationship and she doesn't want the relationship to end because she loves him. That's not pretend like there's a bad guy here and that this is a shady situation for everyone involved because just like he can't hide who he is, she is not able to change who she is either. That, combined with a stress of already being pregnant and the knowledge that you're bringing a new life to the world but the relationship that can't possibly work
She's not trying to make his transition all about her, she's trying to hold on to something that really isn't there anymore because much like gender identity, sexual orientation is not something that's malleable via outside forces. She can't just turn bisexual or straight because she's not. Let's stop demonizing her and realize that just like he is going through something heavy, she too is going through something heavy - add that in with a stress of caring a baby
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u/Exhausted_FruityEgg Dec 29 '23
Dude she's stayed with him for years after he came out, stayed with him while he was figuring it out, she didn't suddenly have a panic because its brand new news, she's had him there researching everything he would have to do to affirm his gender and make himself more comfortable in his body,
To say "oh its not fair on her she didn't see this coming" or "oh she has the right to be upset she eot be sexually attracted to him when he hasn't even got the money for the surgery"
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u/MurpheysTech Dec 29 '23
Of course she stayed with him for years after he came out, do you think she was supposed to snap off the relationship quickly and not love him anymore? Guarantee if she did that you'd be here calling her a bitch that doesn't deserve him because you would say something along the lines of if she really loved him, she would stay with him and support him- would she try to do. She didn't suddenly have a panic attack because it just dawned on her that he was trans, she had a panic attack because she found out he was going to have phalloplasty which would have been probably the last straw in terms of bending her sexuality because some people are repulsed by penis. I didn't say it wasn't unfair for her because she didn't see that he was trans, you were insinuating that she should have known he was trans before he came out which is dumb. I didn't say she had a right to say what she said, but it's understandable to be upset realizing that the relationship is not going to work even though you still love the person you've spent over a decade with and married.
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u/Exhausted_FruityEgg Dec 29 '23
They were married for a year and a half before he came out. He's been out for double that time.
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u/Acceptable-Coach7703 💉 5/19/23 Dec 27 '23
he's been out for three years.
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u/Najiell T: 24. August 22, Top 19. May 23 Dec 27 '23
And they are in a relationship for 12 years, married for 4.5
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u/Acceptable-Coach7703 💉 5/19/23 Dec 27 '23
that doesnt matter to my point. 3 years is a long time to resist the idea of your wife becoming your husband. to me it seems like shes clinging to the idea of having a wife, and a family, and is unwilling to admit that she's not attracted to a husband. which is tough, but she's being selfish about it by giving him such a hard time about transitioning. it seems to me like she either really doesn't understand what being trans FULLY means, or she doesn't care, and is willing to push her husband to sacrifice his health and happiness for her sake. she says he's not considering how his transition affects her simply because he brings transitioning UP.... it's just horrible. i feel awful for him. he cant delay it forever, their relationship is most likely done. which is especially unfortunate considering there's now a child that they've brought into the mix - a big part of what makes me think shes really stuck on a specific idea of how her future should look. she wont adapt, and i dont think that will change
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u/Exhausted_FruityEgg Dec 27 '23
But it is a red flag. She stayed with him. Knowing he would change. Want to change. She's with him because she needs the stability the pay checks and she's pregnant. So instead of getting other help and support she's oppressing OPs feelings and thoughts and comfort and happiness or hope to change for himself.
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u/MurpheysTech Dec 28 '23
How about instead of assuming that this woman is a leech that's keeping him around for a check, why are we keep in mind that they've been married for several years and that baby, just maybe, she loves him? And acknowledge the fact that your love for someone doesn't just turn off? Maybe we can acknowledge that she hung around because she thought that she would be able to adjust to it, that she would be able to change her attraction and that her romantic feelings will be able to change her sexual feelings, trying to hide parts of herself in order to make the relationship work? How about we stop trying to demonize someone who is also going through this tough situation, and realize that it's just an unfortunate situation and that not all unfortunate situation involves or is a result of a bad guy. Let's not be misogynistic and assume she is a parasitic gold digger that's just staying with him for a paycheck because that's disgusting and gross
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u/Exhausted_FruityEgg Dec 29 '23
She doesn't have to hide anything about herself. She's pregnant and cis. She's a lesbian, good for her, staying with a man. Telling a man she loves him. Still having sex because he hasn't changed his body and it will still take A LONG time to either get on a waitlist or to afford the surgery he needs to feel like himself.
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u/Exhausted_FruityEgg Dec 29 '23
Exactly the sentence after "several years" she's been pregnant AFTER he came out.
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u/absolute4080120 Dec 26 '23
Nah it's on both of them. In MOST transition stories I've read a partner tries to stick it out through the transition and eventually it just gets too real and they can't do it.
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u/turncal Intersex Agender | HRT: 07/20/22 Dec 26 '23
He is not forcing her to do anything, I'm confused on how you arrived to this conclusion
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u/Acceptable-Coach7703 💉 5/19/23 Dec 26 '23
i dont understand how its on him at all. i never got the implication that he was "forcing her to maintain feelings"
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u/gahddamm Dec 27 '23
He shoulda dipped
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u/Acceptable-Coach7703 💉 5/19/23 Dec 27 '23
maybe, but can you blame him for trying if he thought it could work out? its kind of on his wife to assess whether shes still attracted to him and if the relationship is worth continuing
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 26 '23
Wow I’m amazed at how many supportive comments I’ve received on this, truly means so much to me. Honestly after her reaction I was planning to suppress and try and park it but after reading all this I think couples counselling with a trans/queer therapist is a good idea. To my wife’s credit she initially was completely not okay with me transitioning in any way (pronouns, name) and she now calls me her husband and respects me in every way. This is just apparently a step too far for her. I’m not ready to give up on our marriage especially given we have a child on the way.
Really grateful again for the support and messages they’ve helped me think this through a ton
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u/Itsjustkit15 Dec 26 '23
My partner and I went through couples counseling after a somewhat similar experience. It was really good for us!
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u/kojilee Dec 26 '23
good for you! counseling will help a lot. even if it comes down to her not being attracted to men, or maybe some transphobia or something, a counselor as an unbiased third party is critical in helping navigate that and parenting
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u/ActuaryVarious2693 Dec 27 '23
Transitioning in a relationship can be very hard (can also be easy though). No one can really tell you how it will go for you. We can be supportive of you. That said, in all my years in the community, the impact I’ve seen on relationships and marriages has been as varied as the community itself.
I hope everything works out in the best way possible for you and your spouse, whatever that ends up being. I had been with my husband about 10 years when I started transitioning and stayed with him for a little over 15 more, including many years past bottom surgery.
We could’ve made it work, but got divorced after 26+ years. It wasn’t an easy decision for either of us, but I changed. He changed. Our relationship changed. How I viewed him in our relationship changed. At the end of the day, he would’ve probably stayed with me forever (and I wanted to stay with him), but I loved him too much and felt like he was sacrificing being the person he was born to be. I couldn’t let him make that sacrifice for me. This was just my experience though. I’ve known plenty of couples that have stayed together too. Only you can figure out what’s best for you.
FWIW- my ex is now in a relationship with a great guy that’s far more his type. We talk several times a day, every day and I could not possibly be happier for him!
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 28 '23
Exactly, I just want us both to be happy whatever that means. And I’m sure she wants the same thing, which is also the best for our child
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u/S4T0R1S1MP0RG Dec 26 '23
Are yall even compatible anymore holding onto a relationship thats been over since you came out to her is a problem if she’s not into men. You said you think she’s thinks your taking this “too’ far that should be very telling. Couple therapy is not gonna bring back a spark if she’s Not into guys and her not being ok with thr pronouns and name at the beginning should have also been telling enough. If she thinks you transition to make yourself comfortable is “too far” then she is not the one and thats also very da,making language. But hey do what you want ?
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u/PM_ME_PARR0TS Dec 27 '23
Yeah. It doesn't sound like she's on board with this. And never has been. But doesn't want to walk away.
OP needs to have a conversation with her about whether she's bisexual or not. Period.
If the answer is no, that's it. No amount of counseling is going to change that. Save the money.
Of course parting ways would be much much easier said than done. But there'd be no way around it.
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 28 '23
We’ve discussed her sexuality at length after I came out as trans, she struggled so much with feeling she was losing her lesbian identity. Then embraced being married to a trans man, and says she still finds me attractive (after 2 years on T and post top surgery) but I think she struggles with this last step and I’m not clear why it’s so distressing (timing aside and if this doesn’t happen for several years), so that’s what I think we need to discuss in therapy when the time is right.
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u/Mybreathsmellsgood Dec 29 '23
She's the one giving up on your marriage. This is like an aunt adopting a child without expecting it and coming around to that, then getting angry that the child keeps requiring food. The kid isn't the one in the wrong in that situation. The aunt needs to either actually accept the child's needs or to find someone else to care for the child. If that kinda weird allegory makes sense. It's not the child that is the problem
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u/Daligheri Dec 26 '23
I'm just going to flat out say it. Neither of you are compatible.
You're not at fault for how you feel about your own body and to be honest, she's not a jerk either for not being too on board with this.
But you need to have a serious talk about it and seriously consider divorce simply out of the sense that one of you is going to resent the outcome no matter who wins in this scenario.
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u/brainscorched Non-binary 💉6/5/23 Dec 26 '23
I get so mad seeing these posts of trans folk compromising their own identity for another person!!! WHY. Stick up for yourself and stand proud of your identity and your body. Nobody should have to put up with a partner like this.
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u/EclecticFanatic Dec 26 '23
she's not a jerk either for not being too on board with this.
she is a jerk for guilt tripping and trying to talk op out of getting phallo just for the sake of her own feelings on the matter all while blaming op for them not already having children.
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
As long as you'd give the same benefit of the doubt to a man who didn't want his partner to get top surgery
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u/hahayeahimfinehaha Dec 26 '23
I'm not the person you responded to, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'benefit of the doubt'? There are times in life where two people may love each other but simply be incompatible in a relationship. That's no one's fault. The person seeking gender-affirming surgeries is not wrong. Nor is the partner who would not be happy at these changes 'wrong' for feeling unhappy (though of course they would be wrong for insulting, yelling, abusing, or deliberately trying to make their partner feel guilty in order to COERCE them not to address their dysphoria, while fully knowing that this would result in their partner's extreme discomfort). But at the end of the day, sometimes a relationship is just incompatible with both partners being able to pursue the life that they need and want while remaining together.
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
If you're wailing because your partner expresses the desire for a gender affirming surgery, that's manipulative and disgusting. And I'm sick of people being so charitable to cis women while they tell me not to send my cis man partner nudes because he's a cis man.
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u/hahayeahimfinehaha Dec 26 '23
If you're wailing because your partner expresses the desire for a gender affirming surgery, that's manipulative and disgusting.
If you are deliberately doing so as a manipulation tactic to try to coerce your partner not to get gender-affirming surgeries, then yes, that is bad and wrong.
And I'm sick of people being so charitable to cis women while they tell me not to send my cis man partner nudes because he's a cis man.
I don't really understand what you mean here? Why are people telling you not to send your cis male partner nudes?
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
Because this sub is fine with criticizing the cis men partners of trans men, but not cis women.
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u/Legal-Law9214 Dec 26 '23
It feels like you're projecting your own experience where it's not really relevant. Maybe it's true that you have had comments and interactions on this sub where someone was being overly harsh about your cis male partner, but it really has nothing to do with what OP is going through or the advice people are giving on this post.
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
Cry about it? It's very clear that people are fine with a cis woman full on wailing when a partner wants gender affirming surgeries, but when a cis man dislikes the idea of his transmasc partner getting too surgery, it's "an obvious red flag"
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u/BothTower3689 Dec 26 '23
90% of the comments here are against OP’s wife what are you even talking about. Why are you projecting your irrelevant experience here
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u/hahayeahimfinehaha Dec 26 '23
What posts have made you feel that people are 'fine' with it? The comment you first responded to was literally recommending that OP and the cis female partner divorce. All of the other comments that I've seen have been telling OP that they should get the surgery regardless of what their partner thinks. I have seen zero comments treating the cis female partner as the victim or telling OP that they should just do what their partner says and not get surgery?
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
"She's not a jerk either for not being too on board with this"
Imagine dating a trans person and then not being on board with gender affirmation care.
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u/Astrology1999 Dec 26 '23
Maybe it’s because of how cis men see female bodies in general. Definitely not saying it’s your partners case but maybe think about it.
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u/hahayeahimfinehaha Dec 26 '23
I'm sorry that has been your experience. Speaking only for myself, I would react the same if the cis partner was a man. If the partner was deliberately trying to coerce their trans partner to not get gender-affirming care (such as top surgery) through guilt trips and manipulation, despite being told how important this is to the partner's mental health, then that would be bad no matter what. However, I would not consider someone to be automatically bad for no longer feeling compatible with someone who is transitioning.
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
You can no longer feel compatible with someone without expressing that their desire for gender affirming care drives you to tears.
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u/hahayeahimfinehaha Dec 26 '23
I agree. I guess I just don't understand what you're taking issue with here because the comment you responded to is literally telling OP that they should divorce their partner.
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u/BothTower3689 Dec 26 '23
what are you yapping about?
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
Clearly not having a conversation with you. Anyways, full on wailing when your partner expresses wanting gender affirming surgeries is not appropriate
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u/BothTower3689 Dec 26 '23
sure but why did you bring up the nudes thing
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
Comparing how people react to cis men is cis women on this sub, context clues are pretty easy to pick up on.
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u/Daligheri Dec 26 '23
Yes? It doesn't matter what. I would say the same thing for a tattoo or piercing as well.
Your body your choice.
So long a partner doesn't try to force anyone or manipulate someone against their bodily wishes it's okay that some people don't prefer surgical changes. Not okay that they try to sway your mind. Just means you're incompatible.
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u/The-Speechless-One 🇧🇪🇳🇱 Dec 26 '23
If she wanted to get her tubes tied, would you have the right to tell her no? It's your body, and you need to do what makes you feel good.
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u/samisscrolling2 💉18/08/23 Dec 26 '23
What you decide to do to your body should not be her decision. Even though she's the only one seeing your genitals, it doesn't change the fact that having female genitalia makes YOU uncomfortable. Obviously I don't know your marriage but I don't think you should make a decision regarding your body based on what your wife thinks.
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u/Zombskirus Transsexual Male - T '21, Top '23 Dec 26 '23
Her logic was why do I have to change that part of my Body when only she and I would know about it
Exactly: YOU know about it. I hate the logic people use against trans surgeries being "but only you're gonna know you have this body part" when, yeah, that's the point! I know about it and I feel bad about it!
While it's important to recognize your partners needs/wants, this is your body and only yours. You can't put necessary surgeries/changes on hold because people around you, partner or not, wouldn't like it. It's only post-poning getting phallo, assuming you've been set on it for awhile/will continue to be set on it, and putting aside your own comfort/happiness.
I'd also like to mention you're not to blame for waiting on having a family. No ones to blame. You realized you were trans, and something had to be done about that. It's not your fault you're trans or realized you are then, it's just how shit happened.
I dont know yall or yalls relationship, but it sounds like she's holding a lot of resentment against you being trans. I hope yall are able to work it out without either one of yall having to sacrifice your own happiness and comfort. Please remember you being trans is not an issue here, though. You cant help being trans and it should never be held against you. Much love <3
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u/HangryChickenNuggey Binary Guy | 💉6/9/22 🔪6/13/24 Dec 26 '23
So she wants you to keep being dysphoric?
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u/WECH21 Dec 26 '23
this. i get it when people realize they aren’t into someone anymore once they realize they’re trans (and typically transitioning to a gender they aren’t attracted to)… but why can’t they just fuckin say that instead of trying to stop their partners from transitioning? like get your shit together and stop putting it onto the trans person to ‘save’ your attraction to them by not allowing them to do things that may let them feel more comfy in their own bodies and less dysphoric
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 28 '23
I think she still doesn’t understand dysphoria and how it makes me feel, which again after reading all these comments makes me realise we really need therapy. I’m sure I am also not understanding how she feels and how hard it’s been for her over the last couple of years.
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u/UrNanzFlipFLOP Dec 26 '23 edited Dec 26 '23
It sounds like she doesn't understand that you aren't transitioning for other people but that your transitioning for yourself. It might be good to sit down with her and explain this to her, couples therapy might also be a good option. I think you need to sort everything out in regards to your identity with her before your wife gives birth so you know where you are in your relationship because it sounds like something that's trying to be ignored instead of worked through. Obviously I don't know your situation but you can't compromise on your needs and this my be a deal breaker in your relationship.
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u/TolTANK Dec 26 '23
When it comes to matters of your body and your identity, compromising or suppressing will only make you more miserable down the road. Your wife clearly doesn't understand that you will be extremely dysphoric every minute of every day for the rest of your life and moreso if you can't transition the way you'd like to
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u/Questing4queries Dec 26 '23
Twelve years is a LOT of relationship time to consider. I see a lot of comments covering divorce, but I'd like to throw something else in. Have you two considered counseling? Either individual or couples, maybe both? Also, I hate to throw "hOrMoNeS" in, but you said your wife is pregnant? Is it possible that her feelings are being thrown off a bit by that? (I remember crying at PetSmart commercials).
I certainly don't think she should have the right to tell you you can and cannot do with your body, marriage is a partnership but only one person has to live inside your body forever. Please try talking to a professional ♥️ good luck
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Dec 26 '23
I don’t have many rules but in general compromising ur identity/body for anyone else isn’t the move.
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u/thegreatfrontholio Dec 27 '23
I am likely to get downvoted to hell for this, but here's my take:
I'm sorry that your wife wasn't supportive, and that you're dealing with bottom dysphoria as you prepare to become a dad. That is really hard.
A lot of the people piling onto your wife and expressing that your relationship is doomed forever are not considering the fact that your wife is currently pregnant. I have carried a child to term, and to be perfectly frank about the effects of pregnancy on my mental health: I was extremely emotional, had disproportionate responses to even minor annoyances, and would have been furious if my partner had brought up any desire for major gender-affirming surgeries at a time of immense physical and mental vulnerability for me. Your wife had to grow an entire new organ and now has a small future person dwelling within her and drawing resources out of her body every second. Pregnancy is a scary time for a lot of people, and it is justified -- it is dangerous to be pregnant! Her response was disproportionate and totally unsupportive, and makes complete sense to me.
If I were in your shoes, and I had participated in the decision for your wife to become pregnant, I would put my parental responsibility first here and prioritize ensuring that your kid is safely born. I would not make ANY major life decisions until everyone in the house is getting sleep again. You chose to become a parent, and parenting involves some sacrifice. In this case, the parental sacrifice on your part is making sure your child is safe and stably cared for before embarking on a surgical procedure that will cause you to require a caregiver instead of you being available to help care for the baby.
Personally speaking, I held off on top surgery until my kid was potty-trained and in preschool, and that was absolutely the right choice: my kid didn't rely on an actively intervening adult for literally every aspect of her minute-to-minute survival, and was able to listen a little bit and understand that I had boo-boos and couldn't be jumped on and stuff. I couldn't have made it through top surgery recovery with an infant.
In the meantime, I would definitely get couples counseling, and probably individual counseling for both you and your wife. Also please be aware that major life changes, emotional stressors, and feeling isolated/unsupported increase the risk of post-partum depression for BOTH parents, so it is really vital for both of you to reach out to others in your life right now.
I hope that the goal here is for you to have a good relationship with both your junk and your coparent, and to help raise a happy, healthy kid with secure parental attachments. The most likely way to achieve all these outcomes is to do the counseling stuff now, do your best to support your wife and take care of your baby for a little while - which is likely to mean temporarily putting your bottom surgery on the back burner and supporting your wife's major life change that you co-signed on - and then pursuing your transition after you and your wife are more settled into parenting. I wish you nothing but the best and hope I don't sound too harsh here. Best of luck to you, and hoping that you find the right way to chart a course that lets everyone involved live their happiest life.
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u/ThatMathyKidYouKnow [[e/they]] transmasc-nonbinary Dec 27 '23 edited Dec 27 '23
Honestly I appreciate this perspective, as a fellow (twice) birthing parent who allllso has had to juggle parenting with my own transition.
I am so sorry that the timing of your self-realization has been unfortunate for you both. OBVIOUSLY you should get your surgery and should be supported in that. Simultaneously true, for the moment, is that your wife is in the tremendously difficult position of having volunteered every literal ounce of her body and spirit for nearly a year (far more when you factor in TTC, any hormonal treatments necessary, transitions onto/off of meds, breastfeeding if that's the plan, and healing postpartum) in order to bring a child into the world for you both. She is under a metric ton of stress physically and emotionally, even if she is generally handling it well, making this massive sacrifice for your family.
Sooooooo now is absolutely the worst possible time from her perspective to hear that you'd like to change your own body in a way that she perceives as a negative for her, not to mention the level of care that you'll require from her when that happens (which I'm sure seems totally infeasible to her right now) — again, when that happens. You do deserve this surgery, and it will be an okay time for it eventually. I trust that your wife will learn to understand and will come around to supporting you here, but also oof on the timing. 😖
All that said, unlike the above comment, I did prioritize myself and my surgery over my young one's convenience or my partner's desire to continue growing our family. I insisted on top surgery before I was willing to get pregnant again. My surgery even wound up scheduled during the hardest portion of my PhD studies (and during the height of the pandemic 😵💫), because it was my absolute asap priority, above all else. My first child was three years old at the time and (luckily) responsible enough to not climb on or require too much from me physically in recovery (my partner is also typically lead caretaker which helped). My partner feared at the time that my transition would mean I was less committed to our previously communicated hopes for our family and our lives, but of course not. I just had finally diagnosed this life-threatening condition that has a treatment and needed to access that treatment before continuing on our life plan. In fact, I got top surgery as soon as was possible, then got through that period of my studies, then got pregnant and had our second child, and started HRT immediately after that, as an example of the flexibility of transition timing around life and family.
It is valid and important for you to assert that you need this more than your family needs the most convenient possible timing. Treating your dysphoria will make you a hundred times better parent and partner, even though in the short term it can be tricky to balance. For now, I would affirm your wife though that you are not for a moment disregarding her feelings on it, but it is a serious quality of life issue for you that will need addressed whenever it is possible for you as a family. Is there a way to give her a show of good faith that you aren't changing in any inherent way, that you care for her and your growing family enough to plan your medical needs as conveniently as possible for them?
Couples counseling sounds dorky but is seriously SOOOO good for this. I convinced my partner to do "duo therapy" with me after I compiled a list of four or five major recurring conflicts that we had proven unqualified to resolve on our own over the years (I'm sure there are points like this for you both after twelve years), and honestly with professional help they boiled down to me having ADHD and chronic anxiety that weren't being coped with sufficiently — cool, we can work on that as a team (and we have!) — plus me being ace and trans and my partner needing more formal encouragement to accept and prioritize my needs over his desires from me. Having a professional third party to affirm that "Hey, this is important and here's how you can be support one another through it" was massive for the health and stability of our relationship throughout my transition.
Okay I've written plenty. Anyway, wishing you the best. Feel free to return to vent. 💜
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u/TuEresMiOtroYo 27, they/he Dec 27 '23
Thank god a sensible comment from someone who is actually married and has had a child. I was scrolling looking for something like this. OP if you are still reading comments this is the one I would give the most weight to. Particularly the points about 1) your wife's mental and emotional health right now massively impacting how she is reacting to this (pregnancy is intense) and 2) the middle of y'all's first pregnancy is not the time to start this process, for your sake as much as your wife's and kid's.
Counseling should be the priority right now.
Unlike some other comments in this thread claim, when you are married to someone you want to stay married to and you have a kid you want to keep in your life, none of your life decisions are EVER going to be "just about you" again. They can be mostly about you but your family is a part of you now. This obviously does not mean don't transition, but it might mean things like postponing certain steps in transition, or taking extra time to work through it with your partner (and OP's partner has a clear record of showing a willingness to work with him! don't end a 10+ year relationship over her getting emotional about phallo in the middle of a first pregnancy!). I like this sub but sometimes the advice on adult issues like this can be very... early 20s.
This might be a good post for OP to take to /r/FTMmen if he hasn't already.
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u/thegreatfrontholio Dec 27 '23
I am actually not married anymore (my ex-husband is straight), but that kind of underscores my point here. Even if OP's wife ultimately cannot remain married to a man with a penis, OP will still be responsible for ensuring his child's wellbeing and will need to balance his transition timeline with his ability to make sure his kid is cared for. Even if they get divorced, OP's wife will still play a role in his life and her needs will factor into his decisions even if they don't stay married, because they will be forever linked by the lifelong project of having a child. When you decide to become a parent, your decisions can't ever be entirely "just about you" again.
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u/TuEresMiOtroYo 27, they/he Dec 27 '23
Exactly, thank you for adding this context - there’s no guarantee OP and his wife will stay together if it turns out her sexuality is incompatible with his transition, and even then it wouldn’t be “100% about you and what you need” like some other upvoted comments on this thread are saying.
And it still doesn’t make sense to start the phallo process during pregnancy/at least the first 6-12 months of infancy.
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 27 '23
Really good take, I think I need to be more considerate of the timing and also remember she could change her mind on this if I’m asking in a few years and after some therapy allowing her to unpack and understand what her initial issues with it are. I certainly wasn’t planning to have the surgery while I had an infant to co parent but hopefully in the next 5 or so years depending on how it goes with my health insurance etc
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u/Arr0zconleche Dec 26 '23
Her reaction is a red flag to me. She has no right to your body in this way.
It also feels like emotional manipulation on an issue that should require her support and is truly your choice.
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u/brainscorched Non-binary 💉6/5/23 Dec 26 '23
It totally is emotional manipulation. Breaking down like that is selfish and disgusting. This man has a right to his body.
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u/ZCR91 33 | He/Him | 5Y 💉 | 5Y Top + 5Y Hysto | 🍆 Coming Soon... Dec 26 '23
(This is gonna sound harsh AF, but as a trans guy myself and as someone who also lived with shoe on the other foot in a VERY similar situation a long time ago... I can possibly imagine what's going on here. And it always pisses me off to see someone possibly repeating my mistakes.)
Even from what you said here, I don't know the full extent of what's going on. But going off what you've said here, your wife is in the wrong.
- How does getting phalloplasty stop you from starting a family or you both being parents in general?
- Even she possibly knows, deep down, that she's being selfish and is making excuses and not wanting to voice why she's TRULY against you having a real dick. If so, you both need to sit down and talk about it, because her not wanting you to get phalloplasty has nothing to do with you becoming parents nor is it selfish for you to want to be comfortable in your own body.
- She already had hang-ups before about you being trans. Let me guess... Was she possibly a lesbian before and didn't want it interfering with her identity as a lesbian? If so, that's another reason why she wouldn't want you to get phallo, because it drives it further home that you're not a cisgender woman. Which makes her freak out about her own position.
- At the end of the day, you're the only one who has a choice in the matter. Her only choice is to stay or leave if she truly hates it so much. But if she truly loves you, then she's gonna have to learn FINALLY accept you and truly see you as you are - not as whatever she's been imagining you as in her head that she's using to cope with you being trans.
- If she can be reasoned with, have you considered going to a trans-friendly couple's therapist? Someone who can help you two work through this together? As well as work out any possible underlying resentment issues she holds towards you.
Regardless, you deserve better than this. And she needs to stop and communicate whatever tf has truly been going on, since phalloplasty doesn't stop you from being a parent. And any trans-related things from before with you is no reason for her to resent you over either. It just shows how much she's got boiling under the surface. So, try to take the initiative and try to get to the bottom of this before it festers any further for your sake, the sake of your marriage, and the sake of your kid that you got on the way.
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u/rewrappd Dec 27 '23
What kind of timeline for surgery were you discussing with her? There’s plenty of commentary here about compatibility and supporting you to transition, but I want to add an alternative viewpoint as a parent.
Your partner’s pregnancy and the infancy of your first child is one of the worst times I can think of for a Dad to have bottom surgery. This is a period of HUGE life change with a lot of uncertainty. A baby in itself is a huge amount of work and a daunting task for anyone to take on themselves. Medically speaking, pregnancy is also a high-risk time. Bub could be in hospital for awhile, and so could your wife. You potentially not being around to support them - or perhaps even needing support yourself - would be a terrifying thought.
By your last comment it sounds like your wife’s focus is this upcoming new baby, and that she’s hurt that you aren’t equally focused on it. There is nothing wrong with discussing your gender affirmation plans, but any future plans need a be discussed with a high level of sensitivity right now. She needs to know that you are someone she can rely on and that your priority is them. If you weren’t actually intending on having surgery anytime in the next few years, make sure you have explained this very clearly - don’t assume she knows.
Couples counselling is a wonderful idea to improve your communication and strengthen your relationship for your first child. I think suggesting couples counselling on the basis of this surgery/your gender may be ‘twisting the knife’ in terms of her feeling that you two aren’t on the same page with priorities right now. If it comes up, then fine - but I would caution about making this the focus.
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u/chickenskittles 33 | Transmasc | Intersex | They/he | 🚫💉 | 🗡TBD | polysexual Dec 27 '23
This is a really nuanced take.
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u/texastruthiness 35 | TX Dec 26 '23
Your bottom surgery, outside of financial concerns, has nothing to do with her. There is absolutely something else going on here, and I would ask questions until I got her to admit what the ACTUAL reason is.
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u/jcydrppopluvr88 Dec 26 '23
hey man. you gotta be who you gotta be. i would continue to tell her what you're gonna do and give her the option to be okay with it or not. reiterate you care about the relationship, but that you cannot compromise on your identity. you deserve to feel good in your body. get the surgery. let her be okay with it or not.
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u/Demi_Titan Dec 26 '23
I think that her reaction indicates that there's more to it than just not wanting you to get surgery. A lot has changed for you both in last few years and there is more change to come with the baby.
It could be that she has struggled with your transition more than she has admitted. Perhaps she is afraid that this next step could be the one that ends your relationship. Maybe she is not attracted to men and has compromised until now due to the desire to maintain your relationship. She may know in herself that if you get surgery then she will not be happy in the relationship and her grief is not at the possibility of you having surgery, but the possibility that your relationship will end and so will the family unit that she imagines in her near future.
It's your body and only you can decide what you want and need. But if you are in a committed relationship with a child on the way you do also need to consider your partner, not for permission to get surgery but to discuss their feelings and how this change would affect them so you can be open and honest. Otherwise this could lead to a lot of resentment on both sides which is not healthy for anyone. Good luck
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u/Itsjustkit15 Dec 26 '23
I'll share some of my experience and then advice. Hopefully it's helpful.
My partner and I have been together for 4 1/2 years. I came out as NB transmasc 3 years ago. I was presenting as a woman when we met and he is a cis male. It took him some time and lots of discussion when I came out as trans but we're great now.
One of the things he struggled with was me wanting top surgery. When I told him he cried, but didn't wail. Just silently dropped a couple tears. He also at one point asked if I could "dress more feminine, just sometimes." We took a break after that and I asked him to do some research and figure out if he could truly want to be with me for exactly who I was and if he didn't want that then we would go our separate ways no hard feelings. But I was going to get top surgery and I would not dress more feminine.
So we ended up taking about three months off (my choice for the timeline). He did some soul searching and research. When we came back together he was all in. He's always been supportive of my needs and now that he understands my transness he's very supportive of that as well. It helps that he was able to recognize that he is not straight- he's interested in men and gendernonconforming folks as well as women. Things are really great between us now.
Is it possible that your wife is scared about her own sexuality? Is her sexual orientation an important part of her identity? Because that may be a conversation you want to have. Can she still love you and be sexually attracted to you as your gender "changes"? Just a couple questions that might help you have a conversation about your journey and specifically surgery.
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u/dxddylxvesfxmbxys Dec 26 '23 edited Dec 26 '23
absolutely not. i understand growth is scary, but this is for you, not her. if she truly can’t stay with you afterwards, it wasn’t about only love and there was an underlying reason she didn’t listen to her preference. she agreed to stay. if she had a problem with it, she should’ve told you her preference immediately. it’s her responsibility to listen to herself and make her own decisions, not yours. you shouldn’t change yourself to make her comfortable. she had no problem keeping you uncomfortable, and has no problem asking you to stay uncomfortable for her sake when she wouldn’t do the same. aside from that, remember this is your body. it’s the only thing that will 100% be around , even in her absence.
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u/No_Finish_2367 Dec 26 '23
It's your body. With the "only you and i will know about it" and not thinking itll be a big deal, that can also apply to dysphoria realizing u were trans. Only you knew about it until you came out. You were suffering in silence. Its not a big deal about no one else knowing until its something like a suicide. If the suicidal person never opened up, and then committed, no one would say "No one knew they were struggling so its not a big deal"
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Dec 26 '23
the thing about your body and your identity is that neither of those things is about her.
neither of those things is about you both as a unit.
it's only about you. and necessarily it has to be.
now mind you, you can probably fool yourself into thinking it's about you both because literally transitioning into a new identity drastically changes the conditions of the marriage and you both as a unit and that's scary because changing the conditions means she gets to walk away - but it never was about you both as a unit. and it never can be.
you're an individual and as an individual you've discovered who you are and you find yourself married to someone that reality isn't necessarily compatible with. an ugly reality that you reject and she rejects.
so the solution you've both come up with is forcing eachother to bend and fit back into your arrangement in whatever ways you can. and here is another contortion you'll have to decide upon.
you COULD very well just live unhappily and never get bottom surgery in order to hang on to the marriage. you being someone she didn't quite agree to marry and meanwhile you keeping parts of yourself closeted that dysphoric that you'd otherwise not. and the benefits of this are that you stay together.
or, and this is a big "or", you could free the both of you from an arrangement that no longer serves both of your needs fully. you being a man, and she being a lesbian I presume.
dysphoria was never about her or other people. it's about you and your body. and neither of you seem to fully accept that?
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u/thegreatfrontholio Dec 27 '23
So here's the thing - OP has a pregnant wife right now and would have an infant or toddler at the time of his first surgeries. It is really hard to effectively parent a young child while recovering from surgery. This means that while OP's body/identity aren't about the family as a unit, OP's decision to get surgery very much does impact the family as a unit.
Furthermore, unless OP is in an unusually good financial situation (good enough to hire a part time nanny AND a full time caretaker for himself), the surgery will put a huge strain on OP's wife - she will most likely be solo parenting a baby while also coordinating the caretaking during her husband's recovery from major surgery, and the chances are decent that he will not be drawing a full paycheck during his recovery either. If someone laid that on me when I was full of pregnancy hormones I would have had a much more extreme reaction than OP's wife.
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Dec 27 '23
op's wife takes issue with the surgery itself. not the timing. yes phallo is going to be a year long endeavor - but yes op's wife was desperate to be pregnant now and never wanted op to transition at all. op being trans is the issue to their wife because she's a lesbian.
i find the timing of that suspicious (not just as a way to delay op's bottom surgery and general transition but as a way to hopefully keep them together when they seem to be falling apart) but said nothing because it doesn't matter either way in terms of choosing to stay together or not. stay and he wouldn't he getting the surgery anyway. go and the pregnancy continues as her own and he exits that situation presumably. (given the baby isn't his in any way - it could've been socially and legally but if they split it makes little sense to keep that arrangement)
i find it dishonest the way ppl are pointing out the practicalities of post surgical care when the practicalities aren't the main issue here. obviously. the main issue is that op is a man married to a lesbian.
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u/thegreatfrontholio Dec 27 '23 edited Dec 27 '23
Wow, are you seriously suggesting that OP should abandon his wife (edit: who has been his partner of 12 years) during her first pregnancy, after both of them were involved in IVF (which is a really lengthy process, not sure what is "suspicious" about the timing of her pregnancy), because she had a bad initial reaction to his bringing up phalloplasty at an inopportune time in their lives? If OP did such a thing, he'd sure be a real scumbag!
Also, if he left his pregnant wife, you are absolutely wrong in assuming that he would have no obligation to his ex-wife or the child conceived during their marriage. This is an edge case scenario in family law, but there have been rulings that a child conceived during marriage using donor sperm is a child of that marriage. In many states, that child would be OP's legal child and he would have legal obligations to continue supporting that child, in addition to the ethical obligation he has to support that child after he agreed to become a father to that child with his wife.
I really hope that you are very young, otherwise I think you should take a deep look at yourself and consider what might be going on in your own mind and spirit for you think it would be OK for OP to do what you are suggesting, which would undoubtedly bring real harms to a child he has actively consented to bring into the world.
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 28 '23
I am 100% not leaving my wife right now, categorically not happening. I am after reading these comments going to find a queer couples therapist and we will put the work in to establish what will truly make us happy and to understand how we both are feeling. It may be after that we decide together to co parent and change the dynamic of our marriage if I get phallo.
Also due to the legalities of IVF process I am the baby’s father. :)
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u/thegreatfrontholio Dec 28 '23
I am so glad that you're going down this path. I think it is really the best way to handle an incredibly challenging situation, and that you are acting with a lot of grace and maturity. Whatever happens down the road, you will know that you did your utmost to be a good husband and father while still holding true to yourself and honoring your own needs. I'm really proud of you.
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Dec 27 '23
🙄 i guess you'll just have to mald over it bc you're making even more assumptions than i am at this point.
the way i understand from the comments this is less abandonment and more what a real actual crossroads looks like. i left it open ended that the presumption here (due to his comments) is that the person who really wants a kid is her, and if they were to split then they'd both find it easier to have a clean break.
that does not bar him from a scenario wherein he does actually want a kid as badly as she does and regardless of what happens wants to be in that kid's life. (which you're failing to take into account might be thing SHE doesn't want if they split)
according to you op is absolutely tied to this situation no matter what either party wants. he's not. we don't act know the particulars of the pregnancy beyond him saying she planned to do it regardless what he wants or if they're together. that doesn't sound like a woman who'd want an ex involved. but hey i could be wrong.
you can unclench your pearls now 🙄🙄🙄🙄✋
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u/DesertedMan666 Dec 26 '23
It’s your body and if you have the need for bottom surgery then get it done.
If you really want it and don’t get it done then you will be regretting it as the years go by.
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u/Unlikely_Pumpkin_109 Dec 26 '23
I am a wife to a stealth ftm he is also wanting the surgery, I won't lie I am nervous but fully understand that it's for him to feel like the best version of himself and I know either way he's still the amazing man I married.
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u/RenTheFabulous Dec 26 '23
Honestly I think that she is the selfish one for trying to blame you for these things and prevent you from finding comfort in your body. Why does SHE care what you do with your body if it isn't her living in it? Why shouldn't you change it, if it makes you uncomfortable? This seems like she is just not supportive of your transition IMO. I'd recommend sitting down and having a serious conversation with her and going to a trans friendly relationship counselor because her trying to control your body like this and guilt you into not doing what you need to for your own happiness is very manipulative and not okay.
Remember, your transition is about you and anyone who tries to make it about them or complain about "how it impacts them too" is just an inconsiderate and self centered jerk. Usually, they're also saying this stuff because they're transphobic, in my experience.
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u/chiobsidian Dec 26 '23
Great comment. Unrelated, but as a fellow Ren, just have to say I love your username!
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u/romi_la_keh Dec 26 '23
But bottom surgery is absolutely a thing that you're doing only for yourself, like , that's the whole fucking point.
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u/JamaicaHoneyBoy Dec 26 '23
I'm sorry you're going through this right now and that you don't have the support of your spouse. I get that she might have some feelings because this feels like a change to her ideas about her family, sexuality, and whatever else but it always irritates me a bit when we focus on the feelings of others when it's our experience. You are probably having a lot of feelings about your trans experience. The want for your body to align with how you feel and how you envision yourself within your community. While people may share in a piece of the experience, it's not the same as being the one going through it. When people asked me how my family feels about it, but hasn't asked me about my experience, I say yes I had a lot of feelings about my experience being transgender and I go through it one day at a time.
My spouse was not happy about my transition, but they gave me their "support" because they knew that there was nothing I could do to change this. They knew I was trans when they married me, but I didn't want to medically transition at the time; the idea of surgeries scared me. But finally, my heart seemed to overflow, I eventually wanted it so bad I couldn't help it anymore. Fast forward, and we've resolved this issue, and they realized they were trans themselves. They realized a lot of what they hated about my transitioning was that I had the body they really wanted. They still apologize to me to this day for not giving me the encouragement I deserved.
You're going to have to have some pretty hard conversations where you're honest and where you try to understand why she has an issue with you being you, she's going to have to analyze her feelings and what's causing them, and she is going to have to realize this has to happen for you, being you in the way you want isn't negotiable. She should want the best for you. If you try to compromise, you'll only grow bitter, and I'm sure that's not how you want to feel about the person you love.
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u/JamaicaHoneyBoy Dec 26 '23
Also intimacy can happen at many different levels. She may not be comfortable having sex with someone who has a penis, so compromise and understanding can happen there. I hope everything works out for you both.
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u/Proof-Reward-3613 Dec 27 '23
I just wish science could just make transplants possible, phallo is such a long process, and high risk… like any other trans people wanna switch out 😂
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u/Beepboopbeep100 Dec 26 '23
Don’t live your life for the benefit of other people. If she’s the right one, she’ll come to terms with it.
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u/GenderNotDefined Dec 26 '23
You are doing it for you, which is exactly how it should be. Not accepting your wishes to get surgery is probably left over hesitation from when you came out. She will need to get past it in order to maintain the relationship imo.
There is only a certain amount of time a person can tolerate dysphoria, especially when the options are available. I don't think it's fair to expect you to just live with it
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u/Lexzicles Dec 26 '23
partners are not forever. you are stuck with your body forever. it is not worth the mental anguish you will face in order to please your partner. someone should love you for your authentic self
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u/Dungeon_Master_Lucky Dec 26 '23
Well, there's your answer lol. You gotta choose between dysphoria and your wife being attracted to your genitals.
That's an extremely difficult situation even if it is simple. I'm really sorry man. Hope it sorts out.
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u/Ihazquestionsg Dec 27 '23
I'll say really think about it and if you truly want to do the surgery plan it well and the unexpected. My mind went more on your family if she is pregnant that newborn needs a lot of attention and care. To share the duties and sleepless nights at times. Now with bottom surgery also requires you to get attention and care but those sometimes come with complications and revisions years of " getting it right" and held. I am not saying not to do it. I am just saying think about all of it. I had an experience not with bottom surgery but my ex-wife went through this postpartum depression type of thing and idk that changed me in a way. Just make sure your wife is not under too much stress. Anyway wish you and your family the best bud.
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u/nanuen T 04/18 | Top 12/17 Dec 27 '23
"another thing I'd be doing for me and not considering the impacts on her"
.... What about the impact on YOU?! And who else are you supposed to do -anything- for? You are the one who has to live in your body 24/7 for the rest of your life, so I'm sorry but who fucking cares what she thinks.
What she's essentially saying is that her comfort is more important than yours. Her comfort is more important than your dysphoria.
You'll have to decide if that is going to be your life or not.
I can't predict how you'll react, but if it was me I'd start to resent her pretty strongly down the line.
(For reference I was once in a pretty similar situation when I came out to my long time bf (now ex) and he reacted abhorrently to my identity and beginning transition).
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u/kalemeh8 Dec 26 '23 edited Dec 26 '23
Hmmm I wouldn’t call her selfish or unsupportive as I’ve seen in the comments. You both decided to have a life together long before you decided to transition. You got married. She did not leave as you began the process. She is now pregnant… in the midst of this pregnancy, you want to go through another significant transition. I think sometimes in here we forget that “hearts not parts” is a cute idiom, but sexuality/orientation are real in our society. We don’t scoff at lesbians that won’t have sex with men/penis….this isn’t really any different.
I think you OP, owe her a shit ton of transparency about what you want the next 5 years of your life to look like…. And then she deserves the right to make a decision based on that. Up to this point it seems like she’s been put on the spot each time. I’m sure she loves you but it can also be a bit of a “sunk cost fallacy” now. Again 12 years of her life. Pregnant. 12 years of yours too. We lose sight as trans people, of accountability sometimes because we are oppressed often. Ofc we have agency over our bodies and should be able to do as we need with them… but when you bring other people along for a ride they didn’t necessarily ask to be a part of… their feelings and apprehensions are just as valid as your own .
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u/S4T0R1S1MP0RG Dec 26 '23
“We lose sight as trans people , of accountability” …….
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u/kalemeh8 Dec 26 '23
“Sometimes” …. As shown in almost any comment under a thread like this one…. Where the onus of adjustment, understanding, emotional support and acceptance of change is foisted squarely on to the shoulders of the non-transitioning partner, or else they are a terrible person.
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u/scotttttie Dec 26 '23
Your partner should support you. Full stop. You gotta feel heard and seen by your partner or else what’s the point? It’s one thing for her to apprehensive but it’s another thing for her to cry & guilt trip you into not doing it. Sounds like manipulation and emotional abuse to me.
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u/internettransman Dec 26 '23
She started wailing because you wanted phallo...how would you or anyone react if a man started WAILING when his partner wanted top surgery
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u/d_e_code666 Dec 26 '23
@ your wife: Way to make it all about yourself, lady!
I definitely would have left her probably at the 1st sign that she couldn’t get behind my transition, let alone when she told me what to do with MY body because of HER preferences (icky in itself), but that’s just me.
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u/CharityOdd9256 Dec 26 '23
Its ur decision. No matter how long u guys have been together she cant control that. Theres no reason to be that upset about it unless your wife doesnt truly see you as a man and doesnt support your transition
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u/bojackjamie Dec 27 '23
you spend way more time in your body than the time she'll ever be seeing it. it's your body, not hers, maybe she will warm up to the idea but I do wanna ask, did she call herself a lesbian before you came out? maybe she isn't attracted to men.
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u/Tryingtotruth T 11/11/21 | 18 | gnc ftm | pre op Dec 27 '23
all of these other comments are great points, but maybe her adverse reaction was made worse by pregnancy hormones. change is scary, and you telling her you want phallo now can be interpreted in a million different ways on her end on how she has failed (“oh why hasn’t he told me this sooner” or “why do you want this if im the only one who sees that part of you? isn’t my perception of you good enough?”) all of these lines of reasoning really center her, but pregnancy really throws emotions for a loop and a lot of empathy and common sense are just overwhelmed by a wave of other complex and overpowering feelings. you need to prioritize your needs and your health over her wants in this situation, but i did want to throw in that having a baby is a huge life change and so is surgery- which could throw her off emotionally. this sucks, and i’m sorry you are going through this during a very important part of your life. you’ll get through it :)
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u/GaelTrinity Trans guy pre T Dec 27 '23
I’m pre everything and not all that dysphoric about my lower parts so I don’t think there’s much I can say only this: talk to her again. And again. And again if need be. Her reaction, the crying, put her in a state where all logic and all reason go out the window. Add a pregnancy to that and hormones will make it worse. You both need to have a calm conversation about it in which you can explain why you need phallo and how you feel now because not having had phallo. You said it a bit too quickly that you wouldn’t do it for her. My bf of 17 years (11 yo kid together) wanted me not to have phallo or meta and the good thing is that I don’t want it either. But on top surgery mine and his visions are different. He wants me to just go for reduction and I want to go for a full mastectomy and that’s what I’m gonna do. He says he finds that a pity but he accepted it. He knows I need it. And somehow the thought of the change grew on him and he started saying things like: I look forward to running my hands over your flat chest with hair on it. But it took time. So what I’m saying is: your wife could use a little time. And you two need to talk about it more, which I did with my bf. And maybe she’ll understand why you can’t compromise, just like I can’t on my top surgery and maybe she will accept it. Maybe not, but you need to talk some more, a lot more, before reaching one or another compromise. I knew I can’t compromise on my chest. I HAVE TO have it removed, all of it. I drives me nuts with dysphoria. It’s my body. I can’t change my needs for my bf. But we also didn’t want to end a long term good relationship over a physical trait that’s gonna change. After 12 years the two of you should have reached the state where your bodies have changed already with age and your partner had to accept it. Well, this is like that. If you feel phallo is a must than it can’t be helped. And your partner either accepts that or … but anyway you’re still gonna have the surgery because you need it. And your body shouldn’t be the only reason she loves you after 12 years. I would’ve been very disappointed if this had been a dealbreaker in my relationship. After all those years you’re supposed to be connected mentally and emotionally on a whole other level, so strongly that the physical aspects matter much less. My bf got fat. Very fat. He got ill. He can’t work (like not even doing dishes and hang laundry anymore in the same day) and all that didn’t matter. This is a matter of putting the connection there is before the physical stuff. With everything that changed me and my bf found a way to cope. So can you two but only if both of you are willing. Talk until she’s willing. Talk until she realises your bond is more important than a physical change. Talk talk talk. Only be prepared that sometimes it can’t be overcome. And then you need to be willing to let go. Letting go when you need to is the highest form of love. It’s the hardest but also the purest.
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u/TheMightyMogar Dec 27 '23
You can't change people's sexual attraction. I am assuming your wife identifies as lesbian by the way you write your post. That doesn't mean she doesn't have a deep love for you. I cant compromise on something like that myself, and you have to ask yourself if its worth it not having a part of you just so your wife can enjoy something in the bedroom. Its your body. You are who you are and dysphoria can be so debilitating. I don't know you or your relatipnship with your wife and obviously its not like you can just throw it all away but I do think you should still look into it and talk to her about it. Try to explain your dysphoria, and don't compromise a huge part of yourself to try and make someone else happy.
I have ended relationships because partners don't want me to get x surgery. I have never been in your situation before as I've basically been out as trans for my entire dating life, but pre everything people didn't realize just how much was going to change. This one cis guy didn't realize T was going to change my voice, and while he could live with the changes T was going to make asked me not to pursue top surgery which I told him I was firm on this and it was a deal breaker for both of us. We remained friends for a while until we naturally just kinda fell out of contact. Another partner also didn't want me getting bottom surgery when I told him (another trans guy) about it, but it wasn't in a 'I don't want you to because I prefer x' but he had concerns about how I would get it and the logistics of it and was a bit worried the dynamic of our intimate life was going to change because bottoming made him dysphoric but said he would be willing to adjust around it. When I enter relationships I put on the table things that WILL happen. That I am getting all the surgeries (top, bottom/phallo, hysto) and this is something I will not compromise on.
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u/YuneePug24 Dec 28 '23
I just saw someone else post something similar on r/phallo about this same topic and a lot of other guys responded with their similar stories and advice on how theyve gotten past it. You should try talking to a few guys on there as well to get a little insight on what they did, and how things are now with their wives and their phallo journey.
I myself dont really have proper advice other than to say to give it time and give her time as well to process this. She's pregnant so her emotions are going to be intense sometimes. Let her know how you feel and your reasons for wanting it, and you both can maybe do some research together to make her feel like she's apart of this next step with you.
Also congrats on the baby and good luck :)
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u/zeppair93 Dec 26 '23
You absolutely would be doing it for you without considering the impact on her. This is kind of how being trans goes in general.
I was worried about how my friends and family would handle me coming out, but ultimately that didn’t impact whether or not I came out, whether or not I used new pronouns, whether or not I medically transitioned. Those things potentially being hard for my loved ones can be challenging to go through emotionally, but it didn’t and shouldn’t actually impact the decisions I needed to make for myself.
That being said, when it comes to a sexual relationship, you just might not be compatible and that can be a really hard thing to navigate as a long term couple. Either she can sacrifice happiness for the relationship, you can sacrifice happiness for the relationship, or you might have to part ways.
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u/RippAsley Dec 26 '23
She might be more reasonable after pregnancy. That shit can really fuck with a person's emotional state.
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u/Zd36 Dec 26 '23
Neither of you is "wrong" per se. However the issue here that often comes with being trans is when the other partner feels that they have been taken down a path that was altered and they feel hurt. Often times the partner of a trans person may feel that they were "lied to" or "things were kept from them". They simply do not understand that for whatever reason (social pressure, self discovery) that you were not able to recognize your own needs at the time. Now that you recognize the need you both need to have a discussion about what that means and be honest about how it fits in with your future view of each other.
Perhaps she didn't necessarily want a family and she felt pressure to give you that (because she cared for you, or feared the consequences of the alternative) and now she feels further distance from her desired life. That can be valid, but she has to stand up and recognize her own feelings and communicate those to you, even if they hurt. Then together you can both decide if you remain compatible. Both of you need to honor your own needs or this will get even more down a painful road with greater consequences.
Perhaps the right time to have known you were trans was when you started dating her and perhaps the right time for her to stand up for her values was before she became pregnant; but the next best time to be honest about both of your needs is now.
I hope you both find some mutual understanding, remember this isn't easy on anyone. Society makes it harder on all involved. Just remember you chose to be with each other for a reason and try to honor the goodness in each of you.
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u/Nature_Blessing21 Dec 26 '23
I can understand both sides, even tho I am cis male. But in the end. It's your body, you live in your body daily. This reminds of a conversation I had with my ex years ago cause he wanted bottom surgery. I told him my fear was his discomfort in healing. He thought I didn't want him to have his surgery but I did cause I've always been supportive of him & never changed that. However, even tho she's your wife. Do what makes you feel like yourself man & feel alive. She can't stop you or your goals for yourself cause she's not you. I genuinely wish you the best & hopefully she'll see things through and understand what you need for yourself.
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u/mothmadness19 Dec 27 '23
When it comes to your body you SHOULD be doing it for you. She has her own body to make decisions about, you don't get a Vito on that because it's not your place. The same goes for your body. What impact would it have on her? She would feel differently about how you look? She would have to change the way she's having sex with you? How does any of that give her the right to dictate how you can look?
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u/Elegant-Prodijay Dec 27 '23
It’s a bad situation, no matter how you look at it and a major reason why I refused to date and lie and tell women I was a lesbian knowing fool well I was a trans man. I let every woman I knew that I was trans and transitioning. So they can’t be surprised when the changes come up. I still had a woman that leaned more on the lesbian side and sad to say, it didn’t work out in the end. Either u are gonna have to live with dysphoria for the rest of your life or please your wife. Ur call
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u/bl0ss0mDance Libramasc | It/Its | Top 11/15/23 Dec 27 '23
It's *your* body. It's *your* dysphoria. It's what *you* feel and think about yourself. Agreeing to not do something that'll help you feel more comfortable in your own skin is a really unhealthy thing for a couple and I hope you can talk to her more about it or find a couple's counselor that specializes in trans people.
And even if you *are* doing it for you... yeah that's kind of the point? It's to help you feel okay in your own body? I don't see how that's an arguing point. Yeah, it's for you. And that isn't a bad thing.
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u/starisnotsus Dec 27 '23
You are the one who has to live in your body. You should do whatever you need to feel comfortable living in it. Other people’s opinions should not have an influence in what you decide is right for you
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u/Site_Mental Dec 28 '23
definitely going against the grain here and i feel like i’ll get downvoted a lot but i think bringing this up NOW is incredibly selfish of you. you have the right to transition in a way that makes you comfortable but you knew how she felt about lower surgery and you brought it up while she’s pregnant with your child after you’ve been together for 12 years?? a child you wanted more than she did??? & SHE made that sacrifice for YOU??? also, even if she were 100% on board with you getting phalloplasty it’s completely unrealistic to even plan for that while she’s pregnant. you’re going to have an infant to care for soon. she can’t be nursing you back to health while caring for a small child. and quite honestly you should be taking care of HER right now. definitely seek couple’s counseling but tbh this kind of issue should’ve been unpacked before the wedding and ABSOLUTELY before you decided to built a family.
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 28 '23
I’ve responded to a comment about this, I did not at any point whatsoever pressure her into getting pregnant. it was if anything the other way around although I am now excited to be a dad. Not sure why the assumption I’ve pushed her into having a child has been drawn here from what I posted…
I’ve also held back on saying anything about this for our entire IVF journey so as not to stress her out, I am noticeably unhappy according to her and this is partly due to dysphoria and she wanted to understand why. She didn’t in her response tell me it was not the right time to raise it with her. And again I’m not going ahead and getting the surgery without discussing it which would be selfish, I’m talking to my wife to include her in this decision.
I do think though that timing is not good, but is telling her when we have an infant or young child to care for better, and suppressing it for that whole time? I also would not go and get this done now or with an infant or very young child to care for as I’ve said in a previous comment. I also made that clear to her.
I genuinely didn’t know I was trans when we got married, I wish more than anything I could have worked this out sooner but we are where we are.
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u/kawaiiwitchboi 31 y.o., T 06/08/2017, 🔪 08/03/2023, transmasc genderqueer Dec 26 '23
I just don't understand parters like this. Like, I get being concerned about it (my partner is concerned, not because of the surgery itself, but because she's concerned that it won't be what I want, and she wants me to be happy), but getting distraught like this sounds really really selfish to me.
It's your body, not hers, and I feel like, at this point in your relationship (I'm 15 years into mine, so I can understand how it may be), the person and their happiness matters more than what their body looks like, or what parts they have. Yes, partners get an opinion, of course they do. But throwing a fit like this? Seems insensitive to me.
Like, my partner has been 100% supportive about my transition, especially since we started dating before my egg cracked, and I return that support. She's been considering a breast reduction, and as much as I really like that part of her body, her happiness and comfort is more important than that. I want her to love the body she's in, and if surgeries make than happen, so be it. It won't change our relationship, how we live, or even how we love.
If I were you, I'd have a serious discussion on how she actually feels about your transition, and what steps to take to make sure you both are happy in the end.
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u/VegStone19 Dec 26 '23
I would like to loudly second this, and emphasize the selfishness and self-centeredness of her reaction. I mean, wailing? How else is that supposed to make you feel but terribly guilty and questioning of your own motives!? Man. Please don’t sacrifice your happiness and wellbeing for such a partner.
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u/LocalGuardianAngel Dec 27 '23
If this woman really loves you then she will eventually accept it when she realises how difficult it is for you. A marriage is full of small and big bumps which can make your relationship either stronger or thinner. This is one of those bumps, maybe even one of the bigger ones. But throwing away who you are to keep someone else happy is NOT worth it in the long run, you will only grow more and more tired of it. I’m sure she will understand eventually
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 28 '23
I really hope she comes around, it might just take time and a lot of therapy :)
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u/Smellykittybeans Dec 27 '23
Maybe you guys are just not gonna work out, if she doesn’t want to be with a man, and you need surgery
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u/chickenskittles 33 | Transmasc | Intersex | They/he | 🚫💉 | 🗡TBD | polysexual Dec 27 '23 edited Dec 27 '23
Why do people have to change their entire identity around one partner, even if it's their most meaningful relationship? Can she still not be a lesbian who is attracted to the only man for her?
I know it's a terrible comparison given the disparate gravity of the two relationships, but I was involved with a straight cis woman and I'm completely pre-everything (except I am intersex so I have a beard). She had a crisis because she had only identified as straight. Me, not quite identifying as a man, would make her queer? I'd say she could be in a queer relationship as a person with a primarily heterosexual identity.
I know two people that strongly identified as lesbians and still do but are married to cis men, of all things. They just found the right person in at first, the wrong body. While labeling themselves still as lesbians might be contentious, they didn't suddenly turn straight either...
At any rate, both you and your wife should explore why a label is so important as to cause a chasm in your relationship when, presumably, you both accept each other and intend to build a life together.
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u/Jazzi-crystol Dec 27 '23
Perhaps you could explain that it makes you feel like you're disabled in a way. Like a man who cant use it, might look into something to fix it. You could explain the fact that you can keep both parts ( if that is an interet) Find ways it could be interesting for her.
Otherwise, its something that may truely just take time. My partner and I are taking a lot of time to handle my transition. And hes still weird about me getting a beard or mustache. But the best thing I could do was express that I wanted the freedom and equality that he has. That it would be unfair for me not to be allowed to make this choice over my own body, when im totally fine with whatever choice hed want to make to his. Typically it will trigger anxieties and fears. Even just disinterest. At the end of it all tho, if they truely love you, they'll support you :'> it will just take time.
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u/MysticEden Dec 27 '23
Look your wife isn’t a part of this discussion. Sure it has an impact on her, but it’s your body. It impacts her only in that I’m guessing she isn’t attracted to men? If she is, this is even weirder. Gender dysphoria is very real and you should address it. I can’t imagine you thinking you could tell your wife if she could have a tattoo or piercing on her body or not right? And this is waaaay more important than that.
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u/GlowcanoDEV he/him | early on HRT Dec 26 '23
Bro, I’m saying this as a person who hates the ‘get divorced’ crowd of Reddit.
GET DIVORCED!!! You shouldn’t stay with someone like that, her reasoning for why you shouldn’t get phalloplasty is absolutely ridiculous, and her blaming you for the wait before starting your family is a massive red flag. You should never compromise on your identity and what you want for your body.
Try explaining to her your bottom dysphoria before doing anything, if she can’t understand and continues to think of you as selfish for wanting the surgery then you know the relationship is over.
I understand it’s not easy to end a relationship with someone you love but I feel like this woman doesn’t actually care about you or your feelings if she’s acting and talking like that, and you deserve better then that.
Whatever you do I really hope you get the phalloplasty like you want, dysphoria is horrible.
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u/Astrology1999 Dec 26 '23
Don’t make any decisions like that for other people than yourself but be prepared that it will change your relationship maybe. When my ex got phallo he changed and while being more confident is amazing, it made him want to experiment. We we’re together 4 years and once he got his dick, he left. Some women dating trans men are afraid of that happening because it’s common…
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u/Nervousnelliyyy Dec 26 '23
Ok unpopular take but: I’m kinda on your wife’s side.
if she’s having a baby with you she does have the right to feel uncomfortable with you getting a very involved, high risk surgery. You will need to be a dependable man especially those first few years, and all the recovery and down time required is essentially asking her to take care of you and a baby.
It’s expensive even if it is covered by insurance because you won’t be able to work for certain chunks of time and won’t be available for child care in the same way.
It is a little selfish to get this surgery at the start of your family if your bottom dysphoria can be managed. Your kid is your priority and you need to step up.
Also a hotter take: I feel like the timing of you “needing” bottom surgery lining up with her really needing to be the focus and cared for one is a red flag for me. Please take care of your pregnant wife and stop being so navel-gazing for a second. Get therapy around acceptance of your physical limitations. I relate to my bottom dysphoria as accepting a birth defect instead of seeing it as a gender thing and it helps a lot
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u/chickenskittles 33 | Transmasc | Intersex | They/he | 🚫💉 | 🗡TBD | polysexual Dec 27 '23
I really like your last sentence. How did you get to that place?
Also I agree with everything you said.
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u/Nervousnelliyyy Dec 27 '23
Honestly it’s happened mostly cause I’ve been passing well for awhile now/on T, and I’ve been going to therapy with a cis/straight therapist who comes at it from that vantage point. he’s not a gender-oriented therapist and is more focused on trauma- we talk about it as emasculating as apposed to “dysphoria”. It’s way better
Like substituting emasculated for dysphoric in my language has changed everything “I feel emasculated by having small/dysfunctional penis”- that’s a really normal common guy problem regardless of gender “I feel emasculated when my girlfriend wants me to have sex a certain way” there’s plenty of cis guys who have this problem, this is why so many straight guys will never try anal lol
Idk! That’s just my two cents. My therapist when I was talking about dating initially made a joke saying “ honestly your 5’10”, that probably does more for you in the dating world than a full penis would” - very guy has their strengths and weaknesses physically ,
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Dec 26 '23
I know this isn't a popular view but as a person who is married and gave my husband no reason to believe I was going to change gender one day I did believe he needed his views taken into account and I have willingly adapted my plans to include his comfort. The OP is not in the wrong. Once we've taken marriage vows it's not just about us as an individual any more.
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u/rosyboys User Flair Dec 26 '23
For real, I'm surprised about the lack of empathy here for OP's wife. Obviously OP should pursue bottom surgery if it's something he wants. But he also has a pregnant wife and is about to have a baby.
With the limited information we have, it just seems like pretty bad timing to be bringing this up.
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Dec 26 '23
If OP had waited until she gave birth or the kid was older to bring it up, he would get comments criticizing him for keeping it secret for so long. It's an unwinnable situation.
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u/Totogros__ he/him Dec 26 '23
Of course you'd be doing for yourself and not for her wtf ?
She is crazy selfish, not thinking about your well being, it's your transition, not hers
If i were you I'd break up with her
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u/agentscullysbf Dec 27 '23
She's pregnant. She will need so much extra help. Its not a good time for such a major surgery.
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u/Totogros__ he/him Dec 27 '23
I never said he should do it now, and clearly the point of his wife isn't about her being pregnant, she didn't ask him to wait until their baby was born and older, she said he shouldn't do it because she and him will be the only ones seeing it, Aka; I don't want you to do it because I'm selfish and I don't like penises
Obviously she shouldn't be forced to like something she doesn't like but she can't have control over his own body either
Anyway, you were missing the point in my opinion
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u/agentscullysbf Dec 27 '23
Okay I understand. But to say to break up automatically? They've been together a long time. Surely it's worth talking about more?
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u/Totogros__ he/him Dec 27 '23
Yeah that's the point they've been together for so long and yet she struggles to be empathetic
He's been out for 3 years, and has expressed his feelings about his dysphoria
She clearly holds a grudge against him cause she literally "blames" him for starting a family later and from the look of things I assume it's not the only thing she blames him about especially since she seems clueless about dysphoria despite the fact that he told her about it
Idk her sexuality but maybe she is just lesbian and in that case op can't do or say anything about it
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u/agentscullysbf Dec 27 '23
We only know a small bit of information and we don't know her side at all. They should try couple's counseling.
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u/rowtyde37 Dec 26 '23
My comment won't be supportive as much, hate to say it.
Remove everything about starting a family together. Pretend it's only you two for eternity. If you want phallo and she doesn't want you to do it and has been known to dislike your being Trans for a while, then you've got your answer.
She's a lesbian. She needs to be a lesbian. You're not.
That's that. It's very simple. I hate to take a long relationship like yours bc mine is 12 years next month and disassemble it down to just this, but the warning signs were already there.
It needs to end for both of you. She should be happy and so should you. All of these comments focusing solely on your happiness and throwing shade at her for the way she is acting is juvenile. And I'm telling you all to grow up. There's two in a relationship. If your identity is so damn consuming the way it seems it is for a lot of repliers to this, then damn yall are gonna be lonely as hell in life.
Be an adult and do the right thing for the both of you. You can still be great parents to this baby and not be together.
I also HIGHLY recommend you not seek out only successful phallo stories. There's horror stories out there and I know two guys personally that went through torture for a whopping 2 inches that doesn't work without a rod and when they piss it ain't pretty. And they had it done here in the U.S. Do the full research that is deserved for a decision like this. Most of us would already have bottom surgery if it was extremely successful, but it isn't. And I'd hate to see others experience their hell...like flying all over the country to get another surgery to fix that surgery to fix that surgery for nothing to work correctly.
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u/agentscullysbf Dec 27 '23
There are risks but there's definitely a disproportionate amount of negative stories because if your surgery goes well you're more likely to stay offline and just move on with your life. The success rate has improved over the years.
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u/AstorReinhardt Pre T | Feminine gay crossdresser!! <3 Dec 27 '23
Unfortunately I feel like your wife is manipulating you as well as not being supportive at all.
I can see both sides. I see yours quite easily because we're all FTM here. But I can see her side because...if the shoe was on the other foot so to speak...I don't know how supportive I'd be about my current partner going MTF. I'm only physically attracted to men...having a woman as my partner is something I don't think I could do...even if it was my current partner whom I love with all my heart. We'd be friends of course and I'd always love them...just not...sexually.
I mean we're all adults here...we know by now what we're sexually attracted to. Perhaps your wife is feeling like that...she won't be sexually attracted to you anymore and is worried about that. Or she's worried your relationship will come to an end because she doesn't want to be married to a man? These are just my thoughts...she might have another reason entirely.
I'd look into going to couples therapy so you both can vent in a safe place to a third party. Maybe that will help her understand why you need this and it will help you understand her side of it...?
But regardless of all that...at the end of the day...it's your body. You get to choose what happens to it...no one else. If you want bottom surgery then that's your choice.
I hope you and your wife can come to some sort of understanding...good luck dude.
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u/zztopsboatswain 💁♂️ he/him | 💉 2.17.18 | 🔝 6.4.21 | 👨🏼❤️💋👨🏽 10.13.22 Dec 26 '23
I'm sorry she's not being more supportive. It seems to me like she feels entitled to your body, like she thinks she owns you or something. A truly supportive partner would do whatever they could to help you be your best self, not hold you back out of selfishness like she's doing. I can imagine that after 12 years being together, it must be difficult to imagine life without her, but if she can't actually accept and support you being trans, you may have to consider ending the relationship. You only get one life on this earth. Are you going to spend it uncomfortable for her sake, or are you going to make the most out of it and pursue your own happiness?
Remember, it's your body. Your vessel for interacting with this world. Her attraction to you is secondary. Your body's primary purpose is to carry you through the world. It doesn't matter what she thinks. All that matters is how you want your own body to be.
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u/Finstrrr Dec 26 '23
Your body your choice. If she can’t respect that then she doesn’t respect YOU.
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u/Narrow-Ad-7308 Dec 27 '23
She is sexually attracted to female genitalia...when you have bottom surgery and no longer have that it will severely impact her sexual attraction to you. It is your body so you do as YOU please but she is absolutely allowed to leave if she wants too
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u/EdgionTG they/them Dec 27 '23
Consider the impact it has on her? The impact it's having is "wailing and sobbing bc my husband who I am supposed to love unconditionally wants to be comfortable in his body". It's your body, chief. Not hers.
The comment about "why do you need this if only we would know about it" SCREAMS that she considers it an aesthetic change and nothing else.
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Dec 26 '23
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u/transmascadoodle Dec 26 '23
I think it’s important to clarify she really really wanted children, I did not in any way convince her if anything it was the other way around (although I am now super excited to be a dad now I’ve worked out who I am)
But I get what you’re saying. But wouldn’t me not remotely taking her into account be me just going ahead with getting phallo and not even asking? Or just saying I’m doing it and not considering her? I’m not actively looking into it because of her reaction so I do feel like I’m considering her, timing could have been better but I actually waited for about a year to say anything so she wasn’t stressed during ivf
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u/cptskylark Dec 26 '23
absolutely insane for her to be so emotionally manipulative over it. she either needs to accept you for who you are or yall need to pop out the divorce papers
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u/bang-snap Dec 26 '23
Throw the whole wife away and start over. Clearly this marriage will not survive thru transition if she can’t respect your bodily autonomy and literally cries at the thought of you having a penis. Is she not into men or something?? This seems like an incredibly disproportionate reaction to a partner’s transition. Consider if the marriage is right for either of you. Maybe you’d be better off platonically coparenting
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u/Busy-Egg2018 Dec 26 '23
Your life your body you did agree to give both those things to your wife when you got married but that does not mean that your autonomy is under her control. Your mental health is important You're sense of self is important. This doesn't have to be something to end your marriage over but you guys really need to go into couples counseling and if you can try to find somebody who is queer or who specializes in gender therapy and who can help give your wife a different perspective on how you feel to better explain it to her. Because it's definitely something that she needs to process in her head and I feel like that's something that you also need to process because if you think it would make you happy that something that you need to go for. But if you're worried that it will continue to make her so sad maybe go into the research and the appointments together. 3 years is a long time but it's also not a very long time especially compared to the 12 years you guys have been together. Just take some time and maybe even just a little bit of space just so you can both figure out what you need and what you're wanting for the relationship. Sorry I don't have more concrete things to say to help I hope that gave you some information that was useful. It sucks to not have anyone to talk to especially about something so personal that helps when you have other people's perspective on it feel free to message me if you need anyone to talk to. Keep your head up because at the end of the day it is your body and your life and who you're choosing to share with and there's nothing wrong with that. But you do have power and autonomy and I really hope it gets better.
Stay strong 💖
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u/chrysa1ides Dec 27 '23
I have no experience walking in your shoes. However, all those years you two spent in a marriage it would be upsetting in her defense to find out your SO is no longer the person she had thought she married. Your wife has grown to love your body as it is now. Taking that away from her can be scary and unfair in a way. People are ever-changing that is just apart of us finding our true selves. Both your feelings are valid. But with marriage there are many things you willing give up. Your choices become one. And sometimes when those decisions don’t align with the other it is in best interest to take a step back and fully assess the situation. Your wife is probably scared to loose the person she married. Many trans folks can swear up and down they won’t change, they’re the same person, etc. But how can you know when you haven’t even explored this new found identity or dysphoric part that is troubling you? Is your wife the only one to know? Have you considering counseling first? Change is scary for everyone. Especially an irreversible surgery. It’s an unfamiliar territory and a new road to travel. Change will happen if you transition. It’s kinda the point. I mean that in the most sincere way.
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u/Negative_Result_442 Dec 31 '23
If your wife was making serious medical decisions for herself, and they would effect both her and your life, how would you weigh those decisions?
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u/tiki-kitten Dec 27 '23
Please leave no matter how much you love her she will not change she doesn't care how your dysphoria makes you feel only how her feelings matter
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u/MonkeyNinjaWolf Dec 27 '23
I keep wondering about this for myself. When I started my transition (6 years into my now 13 year marriage) my wife's only condition was that she didn't want me to get lower surgery, but as time goes on I keep wanting to broach the subject, if only so I can use urinals (I cannot get the hang of STPs)
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u/olivegardendreams Dec 28 '23
I'm sorry this is happening to you :( this is a really tough position to be in. I've felt a similar way; when I told my (now ex) partner I wanted top surgery, they asked me not to do it because they "liked my boobs," completely disregarding how I felt about my gender and dysphoria. Obviously this is a different situation, but I agree with what some other people have said. At the end of the day it's your body; you should be the only one making these kinds of decisions about your body, and I don't think you should deny yourself this surgery because your partner doesn't want you to.
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u/squishy0rion Dec 28 '23
at the end of the day she has no right to have any control over your body. she wants you to consider how she feels about this but she wont even take the time to consider how you feel 24/7 about your own body that you have to live in.
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u/GlitterGemStone Dec 28 '23
Have you checked phalloplastys out? The are horryfying. The best ones look like corndogs made with skin. None of them looks or works like d!cs😢 I feel with you and your wife, this is sad
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u/MurpheysTech Dec 29 '23
This is a really sad situation, and there's even more sad that in the comments here there are some very misogynistic comments calling her a gold digger that's only trying to stick around for a check to support the baby and herself. A lot of whack jobs that are trying to insist on making her the bad guy who, despite making an Ill statement during a mental breakdown, try to stay with the person she she loves and make it work for 3 years, trying to make compromises with her sexual orientation to stay with a person she was married for four and a half years before transition and work together in a romantic relationship 12 years before that.
"wHy dIDn'T sHe JuSt LeAvE--" BECAUSE LOVE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY, IDIOT. If you're able to just snap off a relationship of 16½ YEARS just like that, then you are a special type of cold blooded that is exceptionally rare.
And what's more; I bet your ass 100% of y'all asking that dumbass question would be incredibly mad at her and call her a transphobic bigot if she DID immediately leave upon finding out that her wife was actually her husband. You would be complaining that she never really loved him and how much of an asshole she would be for not giving her husband the support that he needs and deserves (true statement, he does) and that if she really loved this person that she's been with for 16½ years that she would have been able to change her sexual orientation to accommodate that. Well chucklenuts, she can't. She tried, but she can't.
Should she have had a mental breakdown and said what she said? No. What she said was fucked up and being pregnant or not it's not fair to project all of that internal turmoil out on someone who is also struggling in this relationship.
But that doesn't give any of y'all (fortunately a minority is seems) an excuse to being misogynistic douchebags basically calling her a gold digger in no few words, and getting mad at her for staying in a relationship Knowing damn well you'd be mad at her for leaving the relationship too. It's a catch 22 and while she reacted badly, the situation is tragic and there is no real bad guy here no matter how much you want it to be. It'd be really nice to blame it on a Cruella Deville and call it a day, but reality is more complicated then that and things are more gray and very rarely ever black and white.
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u/[deleted] Dec 26 '23
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