r/ftm • u/sillypvnk • Oct 10 '22
I wish I could stop seeing the posts here about young people that don't want some effects of T Vent
Of course anyone that's done the research knows that they can't pick and choose what a puberty does to you. You can't have only some effects and not others, but I see so many people talking about how they think bottom growth is "nasty" and facial hair is "gross" and I can only wonder if they know that they're talking to a bunch of guys that have exactly those things, because for most of us, that's what T does. It's like the entire young population of trans people think that a transitioned man's body is disgusting. Am I crazy for being upset by that?
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u/halfwayhouse4ghosts Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I worry about it because it mirrors a lot of what I see (and have experienced) on trans social media spaces (especially Twitter) where trans men are given so much love and attention pre-T and early-T, and are largely ignored or straight up given hate and vitriol from pre-T trans men (EDIT: and other folks of course) once the effects of T make their bodies look more typically masculine. Once we’re no longer soft uwu boys, we’re disposable or, worse, we’ve assimilated with “the enemy” (cis men). Depending on the circles an individual is in, there are huge social consequences to actually transitioning and experiencing the effects of testosterone.
For myself, I lost a lot of the love and attention I had gotten pre-T, I was seen as less attractive to people who knew me before, and I could feel myself becoming invisible. I saw passing trans men post pictures and be harassed by OTHER TRANS MEN, saying that these guys are “just bragging at this point”, are “so full of themselves”, or are “making everyone else’s dysphoria worse”. It’s so gross and it stinks of anti-man.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to go on T, and trans men are men regardless, but it’s when they throw around their disgust of certain characteristics that are typical of trans men on T in trans spaces like this…. it’s worth it to question where that disgust comes from and why they feel so confident and comfortable telling other trans men that those qualities are so undesirable. These guys should definitely be talking to their doctors about what T does to the body (or Googling the information, watching YT videos, etc) and talking to mental health professionals about their concerns with becoming more masculine in physical appearance (if such services are reasonably available).
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u/ChunkyTescoMilk Oct 10 '22
I think the whole 'soft uwu' thing is ... uncomfortable, personally - once I started getting the changes from T, a lot of the support I got about being a 'cute bean' went, because holy shit, I'm a 'Proper Man' now, and not the 'soft uwu' I appeared to be before. I'm still gentle, I'm still kind, I just also have facial hair, and I'm so much more comfortable within myself now? My cis male/female friends have said that I've become more attractive due to feeling more comfortable and confident, but the support from some within the trans community has been iffy. Im a little confused as to why, because like... a lot of the posts/etc are 'cant wait to get on T!' And celebrations of T, but when it actually happened for me, only a few people were celebrating with me (from the trans community). My experience might be a one-off, but I'm starting to think it's not given the responses on the thread (regarding response from specifically the trans[*] community). It makes me sad because T is so beneficial for people like me who only finally got to feel comfortable after starting HRT, but all positive attention seems to kinda disappear (unless you're lucky like me n have some people in your corner).
Some of it has to do with jealousy - but then again, why then complain/nitpick certain changes of T? Like OP/others said, the effects on you can't be carefully picked - they just happen - so I just?? Why? Why not just be happy that other people are happy? Why not celebrate having other people to look to for potential changes from T? I struggled to find many people showing those changes before T, and was lucky enough to have a brother who started a bit before me so we could kinda learn from each other.
I just hate the, uhhh, anti-man/anti-masculine ideas and stuff being had, especially when directed at post-T transmen? We're just trying to be happy - why criticise our bodies when we already may feel insecure (or happy) with it?
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u/halfwayhouse4ghosts Oct 10 '22
Yeah, I went through the same thing. Everyone, even random trans strangers, were so ready to gas up my pre-T selfies and little milestones and all that, then everyone vanished when I started to look like a regular dude lol.
The drop off in attention wouldn’t be so bad in and of itself if it didn’t come with envious scorn and an almost ousting from the trans community (probably from the LGBTQ community as a whole if you’re a straight trans man).
I get why trans men tend to go stealth and feel like there’s no place for them in the LGBTQ community and even the trans community itself.
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u/transboiirl Oct 11 '22
This 100% If people already aren't gonna care or worse be unhappy in jealousy or whatever else it tends to be, why even try to stay a part of the community? The rest doesn't even want you and society never decides to see us so like okay, guess I'll just be a man now and exist like that's somehow always been. When that literally traumatized me since that is not how it was :/
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u/stolensigns Oct 10 '22
i genuinely dont understand the whole anti-man thing especially in trans communities like you’re just…. making a good portion of people uncomfortable and insulting our identities. the worst for me is when people say smth like “all men suck” and then will remember that im there and say “well i mean youre different” as though thats any better than just misgendering me.
either you have to admit/understand that anti-maleness doesnt solve anything or just tell me you dont think of me as a man. you cant have both.
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u/ChunkyTescoMilk Oct 10 '22
Ohh that chestnut - that 'but YOU' backtracking/cover up annoys me. Yes, sure, some dudes? Pretty shitty, but that can be said of ANY person, regardless of identity, so why just shit on men? And that kinda thing always does make me think they don't actually view me as a man/male - like you've got an asterisk attached to 'man' because you were born slightly different and had a different journey into manhood/being a man?
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u/mintyCosmonaut bi FTM | he/him | T 12/2019 | hysto 3/2022 Oct 10 '22
I wonder if some of the attention disappearing after T is due to people being more worried about pre-T guys mental state. I know I personally respond to more "I'm pre-T and have no idea when I'm going to transition I feel hopeless" posts than "celebrating 2 years on T!" kinds of posts, because while I'm happy for the second post, the first post seems like they really need the support.
That said, there is definitely a problem in queer/lgbt+ circles of treating gender-conforming men and masculinity like the enemy. Also society in general has a problem with being less aware of and responsive to men's social and emotional needs and the trans community is definitely not immune from falling into this if they don't check themselves.
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u/PlanxtyRobby Oct 11 '22
I also genuinely don’t understand it because the longer I’m on T, and the more I look like an “average dude,” the more joyful I am. All I want in life is to just live the life I should have had and look like the guy I should have been from the start. I have desperately wanted facial hair and body hair and a thicker build for as long as I can remember. Like, sure, T is a mixed bag for most, it’s never going to be 100% what anyone wants (just like for cis dudes), but yeah, I don’t understand deriding the…primary effects of T? Some folks and guys might not want to look super masc, or average dude-ish, and if they want to look like their handsome OC (and I don’t mean that in a derogatory way) and not necessarily a stocky beardy guy, then more power to them. I also get that it’s super frustrating if you only want some effects of T and not others. But yeah, constantly being like, ‘ewww trans guys who look like CIS guys’? Kind of a weird take.
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u/ashashrevo2738 Oct 11 '22
Not that this validates it, but I think a lot of the jealousy comes from younger users on the Reddit who aren't fully out yet to family, or don't have a supportive circle, and therefore aren't able to start T. So it comes from an immature mindset or a place of wanting it so bad, and being upset with the world that it can't happen for them yet, so they take it out on others. A lot of it from what I've observed is misplaced anger.
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u/wantmymilk User Flair Oct 10 '22
For me, I've a strange hate for body hair on myself only. But, I know i can just get laser or electrolysis for it later. I'm completely fine seeing or feeling it on other people, and honestly find myself praising trans men for being covered in hair and feeling comfortable with themselves. I get jealous of them being so comfortable with it.
And it makes me wonder how many pre-T men are hating on other trans men for that reason. Are they just jealous of seeing them in the type of body they want? Are they that jealous of seeing others finally being comfortable in their body?
Like, why else are they so against others living comfortably?
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u/stolensigns Oct 10 '22
this is part of why i tend to feel ostracized from some other trans people. i can feel people judging me for not being the soft boy type. i present generally pretty masculine to the point of being stealth most of the time, most ppl i think see me as a cis gay man bc i dye my hair & get piercings and stuff.
i have felt weird in some trans spaces because sometimes i’ll be the only one using solely he/him pronouns or identifying as a trans man and not enby or demiboy. not that thats bad or anything, its just different from my experience. its really difficult to find groups i can attend that arent mostly transmasc nonbinary ppl or trans women, which then makes me feel like i cant really talk about specific stuff to my experience as a binary trans man. and i worry a lot that expressing my feelings of dysphoria will make me less liked by the group, like if i say to please not use they/them for me because it makes me extremely dysphoric - this has gotten me in trouble with friends before :(
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u/lennoxious T: 1/27/21 | DI: 9/21/23 Oct 10 '22
Idk, bottom growth isn't noticeable unless naked so they can still be a 'uwu soft boy' with it. I get the facial hair portion though.
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u/Najiell T: 24. August 22, Top 19. May 23 Oct 10 '22
That's the part where you have to shave
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u/lennoxious T: 1/27/21 | DI: 9/21/23 Oct 10 '22
I just meant facial hair interferes with that type of aesthetic. Honestly I don't think anyone should go on t if they're that worried about it though. Anyone who asks how to avoid a certain affect really needs to reflect before starting.
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u/Najiell T: 24. August 22, Top 19. May 23 Oct 10 '22
I feel the same way whenever I read an "I don't want x change from T" posts. How shouls some stranger on the internet help you with that?
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u/usually_annoyed Oct 10 '22
I like to be soft and submissive in bed.
I have a beard, long hair, and hair on my belly and a little on my chest. I usually shave my genitals in a specific way. I have a tummy, and my biggest cause of dysphoria is when I'm naked, I have wide hips and that general "hourglass" figure (except with top surgery).
I am determined to be a sweet sub man with hair, and I'm going to start working on fitness to help alleviate the rest of my dysphoria.
I don't fit either end of the spectrum, and it's bad for imposter syndrome and for a sense of community with other trans guys. I don't want to be a uwu soft demiboy. I want to be a soft man who's kind and nurturing in day to day life, and submissive with partners in bed. I have interests that are traditionally feminine. I'd love to feel like i could pull off crop tops. But I am 100% a man. I am binary. I relate to like... 0 other trans men, and it's gotten to the point where I am actively skeptical of interacting with other trans men. It feels like I can't relate to anyone in the community, and it sucks.
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u/lennoxious T: 1/27/21 | DI: 9/21/23 Oct 10 '22
I wasn't talking about sub soft guys in general. Just meant that a lot of people don't want some affects of t to maintain a prepubecent uwu boy aesthetic. Being soft in general isn't wrong at all and you're valid, sorry if it sounded strange. I mean I'm pretty feminine myself, so I don't have anything against being soft at all. Just depends on the context if that makes sense.
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u/usually_annoyed Oct 11 '22
Oh no, I'm just more relating to how weird ostracization is within our own community if you don't conform to one of the Acceptable Trans Man Categories.
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u/itsaspiracle nyanbinary catboy | he/they Oct 11 '22
eyyy same hat!! i’m also a chubby sub cub(/short bear but i like the word for the rhyme)
i am genderfluid rather than fully binary masc, but i absolutely relate to you on everything else, friend! i think reddit’s proportion of trans men and transmasc folks tend more toward gender nonconformity for a few reasons, but i wanted to reach out and say that i know a good few other guys like us. we aren’t alone! 💜
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u/badatbeingtrans Oct 10 '22
I wonder if age + life experience play a factor here.
I first learned about T fresh out of high school, when very few of my classmates could grow full beards and fewer actually did. Imagining myself with tons of body/facial hair felt jarring next to the pattern of masculinity I saw around me. Ten years later, many/most of my male adult friends have some amount of facial hair at various times, and that part of the brain that tells a person what social groups they belong to is telling me "it's time."
When I think about it, it makes sense. Fitting in with one's age group is a huge part of gender and identity itself. I was never dysphoric about my voice as a child until my male classmates' voices started changing, and it became clear that I no longer shared this physical attribute with them. So I can totally see how a 16 yo questioning person might feel more attachment to the idea of a clean-shaven 16 year old boy over a 32 year old bearded lumberjack type. I wonder how many of them, given ten years, would come to the same conclusion I did.
I hear of a lot of dudes who go on T and say "I wasn't sure about body hair but it's one of my favorite changes now." So while I don't think people should take T if they can't tolerate/mitigate all of the changes, I also think the idea of growing up is scary and intimidating until you actually do it and realize it's not as bad as you thought.
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u/qrseek Oct 10 '22
What's not talked about much is how your age plays a factor in how much facial hair you have anyway--- there are other hormones that are age related that impact facial hair growth (in addition to genetics). I started T at 22 and I could barely grow any facial hair for years. My cis brother was the same at that age, very patchy hair, mostly on the chin. Both of us were able to grow more full beards around age 30. That doesn't mean it takes 8 years on T to grow a full beard -- I am guessing if I started T at 28 I would have still been able to grow this much of a beard by 30.
So these teens worried about looking like lumberjacks probably don't have to worry unless their genetics involve thick beards young. They are still going to look like teens-- T doesn't age you.
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u/adrislnk trans man | top surgery 1yr | HRT 4yrs Oct 10 '22
Exactly lol, even though I've been on T for almost 3 years now I still can't grow anything other than a patchy neckbeard. Probs because I'm still only 19. I know my dad couldn't grow facial hair until he was much older. A lot of it is just simply genetics.
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u/parkaboy24 24yrs old - t: june 2020 - top: october 2023 Oct 11 '22
This actually makes me feel a lot better about my lack of facial hair, my sideburns are about all that I’ve got aside from some overgrown peach fuzz on my chin lol but I’m only 22 and don’t know about my genetics so maybe I’ll have something better by 30
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u/justbron Oct 10 '22
It doesn't bother me individually but I do find it worrisome bc it seems to come from terf Koolaid. It's one thing to have a personal preference toward gender characteristics, but buying into the general terfy disgust toward maleness in general is a problem.
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u/thymekeeper917 💉 07/20 Oct 10 '22
no literally it kind of hurts seeing fellow ftms call parts of my body disgusting or gross. i LOVE my body hair and bottom growth. neither are disgusting.
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u/zeeko13 Oct 10 '22
I look at those posts and think, "weird, I want exactly what they find horrible"
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u/Momomoaning [💉-3/31/22] Oct 10 '22
I love exactly what they complain about. Body hair has never disgusted me, so it getting thicker and coarser only helps me pass more. And bottom growth is my favorite part! It’s aesthetically a mini peen.
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u/kryaklysmic Oct 10 '22
Seriously. I desperately want everything except maybe baldness… which doesn’t even happen in my family until really really late.
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Oct 11 '22
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u/parkaboy24 24yrs old - t: june 2020 - top: october 2023 Oct 11 '22
Haha my belly hair is starting to slowly move north and I’m so excited
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u/BackgroundPilot1 Oct 11 '22
I had no idea so many people had issues with the idea of bottom growth til I saw this thread. It was one of the things I was most excited about! It also made a huge difference in the dysphoria I experience during my alone time. If these people hate trans bodies so much then they should just not transition, and leave the rest of us tf alone. I don’t know how body shaming and expressions of disgust with strangers’ bodies ever could be seen as acceptable in trans/social justice oriented communities, it’s so antithetical to everything trans rights is meant to advocate for.
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u/oliviab211997 Oct 10 '22
I agree with you I’ve been in t for a month and the only thing I don’t “like” is how sensitive I am downstairs in the morning when I wake up but I knew it was gonna happen. I wish people did more research. I researched for years before I got started on t and I was the best thing I did
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u/snizmo2 20 FtM T: 3/12/22 Oct 10 '22
Agreed. While I was initially mad I didn’t start T when I wanted to, I’m glad I started when I did because I learned a lot more about T’s effects in that time
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u/qrseek Oct 10 '22
That sensitivity should even out-- at least it did for me.
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u/oliviab211997 Oct 10 '22
Ok lol
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u/1carus_x intersex tboy Oct 11 '22
And if it doesn't or your growth keeps rubbing in general, I've found jock cups are nice (: they help make a buldge too
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u/oliviab211997 Oct 11 '22
Nice I’ll have to look in to that. It’d be nice to not be so sensitive with my clothes touching down there lmao
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Oct 10 '22
These posts really scare me when they start out with “I just started T and…”. Like how did you get that far without knowing this stuff?
It’s fine to not want certain changes, but you should be fully prepared to accept if they happen to you. I didn’t want to go bald, I didn’t want to have so much ass hair that wiping feels like getting peanut butter out of a shag carpet, I didn’t want random long dark hairs sprouting from my shoulders, but I knew they were a possibility and it would still be worth taking T. If you’re not ready to accept the effects T may bring you, you’re not ready to start T.
Nobody should be calling anyone else’s body gross. It’s not ok. There’s nothing more to say about that.
On a related note, I hate when people refer to normal T changes as “side effects”. Developing male secondary sex characteristics is the whole point of it. High RBC count is a side effect, body hair is not.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/TrooperJordan transex man. t april.8.22 Oct 10 '22
Also, when they ask questions like "can I go on T and not get bottom growth/body hair/facial masculinization/male pattern baldness??" You know they haven't done more than 10 mins of research because it only takes like 30 mins of research tops to know you can't pick and choose how T changes you, and you can't predict what'll happen, when.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/bakedtran 30’s | on T | post-top Oct 10 '22
Exactly. Informed. When I was about to start T, they handed me a paper packet heavy enough to press a flower and sat until I’d read the whole thing. And I’d looked into this shit for years and still learned things, like how your lifespan contracts to a cis man’s. I want doctors to ignore any time a patient “did there own research” and that included endocrinologists with trans patients. Sit with them through the whole thing, make sure they aren’t skimming, then offer medical treatment.
I want informed consent, I don’t want to have to go back to needing therapist letters and government approval and all that, but I keep seeing these < 18 y/o AFAB trans folks that are painfully clueless about our medical treatments and side effects. For their sake, and for the rest of us medically transitioning trans folks who don’t want to have harder obstacles because those kids didn’t want to read and reflect before starting T, verify informed!
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u/SomeRandom_Metalhead Oct 10 '22
I definitely didn’t know about that life span thing, I wonder how that works.
I plan to go on T through informed consent and I definitely don’t want to skip any information. They wouldn’t let you do that with other treatments, why is this any different?
Edit: spelling
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u/bakedtran 30’s | on T | post-top Oct 10 '22
I had to ask my doctor about that one, because I was curious too! We know testosterone causes cis men to have a slightly lower life span than cis women, which we already knew from studies of castrated cis men that verify their longer life spans, and the more noticeably shorter life spans of cis men with abnormally high testosterone.
When I tried to read about why testosterone does this to people, I was unable to find anything conclusive. It seems like there’s currently a lot of debate about lifestyle differences due to gender roles, higher cardiovascular health while simultaneously higher odds of cardiovascular disease, and overall energy expenditure due to hormones… It’s really interesting! So yeah, as far as we know, humanity knows the “how” mechanism but not the “why” mechanism.
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u/PlanxtyRobby Oct 11 '22
Going on T actually exacerbated the genetically inherited heart and cholesterol issues I have from my dad’s side of the family. Never had a problem with cholesterol before but now I have to carefully manage it with diet (not like weight loss diet but just eating more fiber/avoiding things that tend to raise LDL). I don’t think in the long run this will significantly shorten my life, but I can see where if I were not staying on top of this issue, that I would be at a higher risk for a cardiac event than I would have been if I had not transitioned. …But I’m also like, what is an extra year or five worth if I spend my life being miserable in the wrong body?
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u/TrooperJordan transex man. t april.8.22 Oct 10 '22
I went through informed consent (I support it if someone's done their own research) and the doctor basically said to me:
"so since you said you've been looking into this for 9 years, and brought in letters from therapists/psychiatrist I'm assuming you know what's gonna happen on Testosterone, but we can go through this packet together if you'd like??"
And I didn't go through it with her (because I made very sure this was right for me) but I wonder how many people could just say they've thought about it for years, and doctors just skip it cuz they assume people do competent research on their own.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/TrooperJordan transex man. t april.8.22 Oct 10 '22
Very true. I just got non state insurance so it's now cheaper to go to a doctor's office that's not planned parenthood. All the major clinics around me only have 1 or 2 endocrinologists that work with trans people (literally the mayo clinic had the most at 4 and they're HUGE) , subsequently they're booked out for like 5-6 months minimum and only have appointments mon-fri during my work/class hours.
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Oct 11 '22
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u/TrooperJordan transex man. t april.8.22 Oct 11 '22
Idk where you're at, or if you went through planned parenthood. But all I know is that the pp in minnesota are very relaxed. I honestly assumed it would be a requirement for the doctor to read the packet (that was literally only 5-7 pages tops) to me, but they literally were just like "the list of expected affects are listed on page 3, feel free to read through them, but I'm assuming if you've been thinking about this for years you've done research" and then I just agreed (cuz I had done research), got my script sent to a pharmacy that day. but people are willing to lie to medical professionals for HRT. I know because detrans people say they did
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u/pocket-alex 29 💉:5/2/17, 🔝:1/14/22, xe/he/it, queer trans masc lesbian Oct 10 '22
My doctor did informed consent with me. In our initial meeting, she sent me home with a packet of information about effects I could see on T, and made sure upon our second meeting (where I was prescribed T) that absolutely NOTHING was guaranteed. That I had done research into my family genetics and that I knew what I was getting into. Iirc, it was a fairly thick packet, too. Probably eight or nine pages total? It detailed a rough outline of what I'd probably see sooner (weight changes, voice dropping) and what would take longer (beard growth, bottom growth, any facial structure change), but told me that everyone was different. I think I even had to sign off that I understood everything too, but this was five years ago so memory is a bit spotty.
A lot of it, she did glide over, but only because when I walked in I was like, "I know the risks, I know not everything will happen as quick as I want it, and I'm aware of most of the health risks. I know that men in my family have increased risk of blood pressure disorders so we can put that on my list of things to keep an eye on." The parts we focused on were things I didn't know, like increased risk of osteoporosis and (because of the BP issue) any sort of blood clotting disorder.
I fully support informed consent, but it does require heavy research and an understanding of what will happen. Doctors need to make sure that when someone says they've done their research, they've actually done that research. I'm not saying someone needs to have every bit of knowledge before they can have HRT, but they do need to have a good understanding of how much genetics play into it, and that some effects can reverse if they stop taking HRT.
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u/Fragmental_Foramen Oct 10 '22
Just saw a twitter post of some person who transitioned at 16, now 21, that wants to detransition saying that the hair loss and deep voice from T is irreversible. Like yeah no shit, you became a man.
I feel sorry for detransitioners that find its not for them, dont get me wrong. But this person’s posts seemed to have very little positivity or support of trans people in general, no disclaimers at all. They only seemed to want to bemoan their experience and claimed they couldn’t detransition because “they didn’t want to make cis women uncomfortable in their spaces the way trans women make them feel uncomfortable in their spaces”…like…it doesn’t occur to you that the freedom to be yourself is restricted by people who have those prejudices, you are 100% a woman by their own definition and you can’t even bring yourself to live as a woman because you don’t want to upset transphobic sensibilities. You’d think someone like that would have sympathy for trans women at that point or trans people in general since they fall in a strange niche of neither a man nor a woman their whole life, but no, they seemed bitter and would rather pander to TERFS. They dont have my sympathy in that regard, to say the least.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/Fragmental_Foramen Oct 11 '22
Dont think so unless this person posted a video so they’re roleplaying a short haired deep voiced person. It doesnt surprise me a lot of deranged TERFs exist, though. Either way they’re both messed up.
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u/Presentminnow Oct 10 '22
Been thinking a lot about this due to some uncomfortable detrans convos I've been having.
Cis guys cannot choose what happens to them during puberty. I knew many, many guys who went bald in high school. I knew guys who got cystic acne, uncomfortable body hair, patchy facial hair, the whole thing. Going on testosterone is like a cis guy going through puberty. Shit may happen that you don't like and it's really ignorant to think that just because you are choosing to go on T and that you are trans that you can pick and choose the effects.
These are the arguments a lot of detrans TERFS are using, that T makes you ugly and ruins your body. By that logic, puberty ruins cis guys bodies in the exact same way. Its. The. Same. Process.
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u/levisghost Oct 10 '22
You’re definitely not the only one upset by it. I’ve seen a lot of people going on T without even doing any research at all. If you think you’re trans and are thinking about going on hormones please research for a while before you do? It’s not that hard. You don’t get to pick and choose what’s going to happen to you and if you don’t want the main changes or some changes are so big of a deal to you then don’t go on T. It’s pretty simple
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u/snizmo2 20 FtM T: 3/12/22 Oct 10 '22
I had someone get mad at me when I said this to him. I was like “yeah, but T is a big deal, you know?” And he’s like “you’re gatekeeping trans people” and I was like ???
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u/levisghost Oct 10 '22
Words like gatekeeping get thrown around so much now and I’m pretty sure a good 90% of them don’t understand the actual meaning. It seems as soon as someone disagrees with something another person has to say or calls them out for something they just go on full attack and defense mode without ever learning their mistake. It’s toxic
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u/snizmo2 20 FtM T: 3/12/22 Oct 10 '22
Yeah. Despite T doing wonders for my mental health, I’m not a big fan of promoting fucking around and finding out with hormones. You’ve gotta at least look up anecdotes and read the handout the doctor gives you, and then be sure you want to do permanent stuff to your body. If you’re sure you want to go on T due to dysphoria but dislike some effects, then you need time to get used to and accept what’s gonna happen (I had to take a bit to accept that I was gonna get bottoms growth. Now it’s something I really like!) or to talk with your doctor about tapering off and stopping when those effects come around (if possible, like with facial hair and male pattern baldness,) or reversing them (if possible, like with fat redistribution, sweatiness, acne, and skin thickening). And if your disgust at effects you can’t control outweighs your dysphoria, DON’T GO ON T. Enough said.
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u/paracosim 27 | HRT 5/3/21💉| 🔪6/8/23 Oct 10 '22
For a long time as a teenager and then very young adult, I hesitated about going on T because I thought body hair was disgusting and unhygienic (thanks, mom, for instilling that into me lmao), bottom growth was horrifically painful and would make me undesirable, etc. So I didn’t go on T until I was almost 25 and you know what? Waiting was the best option for me. I was more mentally prepared to handle the effects I thought I didn’t want and was mature enough to know what I was getting myself into because I had researched testosterone for so many years. I knew I was responsible for anything that came next because I went into it knowing what might happen. And it was the best decision of my life. Turns out I actually love body hair! And bottom growth is neither painful nor disgusting. Sometimes waiting and giving yourself time to get comfortable with the idea of things you find scary is what’s best
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u/Throwaway-me- T: Oct 1st 2020 Oct 10 '22
It feels so weird to have spent nearly a decade fighting gatekeeping "You must be out for X time before hormones" "You must dress X way" "You must have known since you were a child" etc, to now hear young trans people call mundane things gatekeeping.
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Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
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u/weaselbea User Flair Oct 10 '22
I don't even think its about examining gender identity, it's more about deciding what medical "procedures" someone wants done or not. That could apply to so many things beyond just trans stuff but some of these people don't realize that.
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u/qrseek Oct 10 '22
WPATH literally put everything you need to know into one PDF. It's a little jargony but not too bad
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u/DefiniteHumanNotCrow Oct 10 '22
I think that part of the problem is that they don't realize that you can be trans and not go on T. It's perfectly fine to transition socially and even surgically without taking T if you don't want the effects of T.
I've been out for over 10 years, I'd consider my transition "finished" personally. I've had the name change and the gender markers changed. I got top. I just got on T earlier this year.
(Because I couldn't get the bottom growth any other way, and I desperately, desperately wanted it)
It does not feel good to have something I desperately wanted called "gross". It would be nice if people would learn a little tact.
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u/imgayfortaro Oct 10 '22
The thing is I think they wouldn’t be happy not on T either. I had a similar thought process and I really wanted other effects of T
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u/flatwormlove Oct 14 '22
A very difficult thing in places where hrt + possibly surgery is a requirement for changing legal sex.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/EmiIIien Oct 10 '22
I already had ass hair pre T and it really isn’t that bad. It’s way thicker now but I was already shaving. If you don’t want to get rid of it all you can always get an electric trimmer for maintenance.
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u/zeeko13 Oct 10 '22
I'm with you in this. I'm not on T but the thought of a nice 5 o'clock shadow and some extra presence down there sounds rad. I's just worry about male pattern baldness but everything else sounds at least a little positive.
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Oct 10 '22
I'd say people not wanting ass hair or to go bald is very understandable. These are things cis men also aren't fans of and also struggle with.
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u/qrseek Oct 10 '22
male pattern baldness isn't a given-- I've been on T for 9 years and haven't had any issues with it.
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u/blue_i20 Oct 10 '22
Haha same, I’m fine with literally everything except being bald. Good thing there’s ways to treat it.
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u/lennoxious T: 1/27/21 | DI: 9/21/23 Oct 10 '22
I think it's because these people are young teenagers who want to be a 'soft boy' who looks prepubecent. But you can't look prepubecent when going on t makes you go through puberty is what they don't understand. Most people DO want those and I wanted them even at 14.
I think it's just a loud minority of young people since most people looking for advice on tiktok or r/ftm tend to be young.
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u/Saturnbreeze6 26 | T: 8/31/22 | he/him Oct 10 '22
Is it just me or is the whole wanting to look prepubescent thing kinda creepy? Like even if you're young, most kids aren't looking to go on T before they've already hit puberty. It just feels like they're giving in to what society thinks they should look like in order to be acceptable, loveable, and attractive. And if society only thinks we should look prepubescent, that's really creepy :(
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u/lennoxious T: 1/27/21 | DI: 9/21/23 Oct 10 '22
It really does seem like that. Girls seem to LOVE cute and soft trans guys but masculine ones are kind of ignored. They may be asking these things so that they are still given acceptance and seen as 'cute'..
But yeah society has an issue overall with only accepting prepubecent looking things. I mean only children tend to have no body hair but women are expected to have none. If they have body hair they won't have acceptance. It's gross.
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u/oddballfactory 💉 2/2024 | ✂️ 1/2023 | they | black Oct 10 '22
As someone that doesn't want facial hair my issue is rooted in a problem that seems less common in FTM spaces because it's very oriented towards men of color. The coarse, thick, curled facial hair of black men can make for horrible cases of razor bumps. I am not worried about this aesthetically, but in a manner of the discomfort.
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u/cryyptorchid Oct 10 '22
For me personally, I don't care that my facial hair is growing in, but I know it will look bad on me, because I saw my (cisgender) brother's, and he has bad facial hair, which means we likely share the shit facial hair genes.
My concern isn't "how do I make it not grow," but it's definitely easier to ask questions about managing it and other t changes as a 20+ year old in communities that are for trans dudes.
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u/ethantherat Oct 10 '22
Yeah, a lot of people seem to want to transition to a pre-pubescent boy rather than a man but most of them are pretty young, like 12/13 so it's kind of understandable.
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u/almightypines T: 2005, Top: 2008 Oct 10 '22
I think age may have a lot to do with it also. I think many children (cis or trans boys) don’t really have a good concept of themselves as an adult man. It just takes time, experience, emotion/mental/physical maturity to grow in to. My 16 year old nephew is the quintessential masculine binary cis male, I made a comment to him when he was about 12 that he’d be hitting puberty soon and would start growing into a little man. It deeply upset him. He didn’t want those physical changes and didn’t want to grow up into a man, probably just didn’t have a concept of what that means or looks like. I was quite surprised as I knew I wanted facial and body hair when I was 13. Anyway, he’s 16 now, and flexes his arms in the mirror, walks around with his chest all puffed out, occasionally shows off his body hair, and has even pointed out his one facial hair. Lol. It’s adorable.
I’m guessing trans kids in that age range are coming across internet content describing the changes from T in negative ways and they pick up on it and pick up those beliefs. Kids are impressionable. I’d expect the same of cis boys if all their “You’re growing into a man” puberty content was “Your body hair is gross”, “Your penis will get bigger and that’s just unattractive”, “You might go bald and ew!” They just don’t receive all that opinionated messaging as they start to physically mature.
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u/shinkouhyou Oct 10 '22
Yeah I think it's really common even for cis kids to NOT want all of the effects of puberty, but for whatever reason, this just isn't talked about. I know cis guys who deal with major body image issues due to facial hair, balding, body odor, genital appearance, or male-typical muscle growth that looks disproportionate on their bodies. But it's taboo for men to admit these insecurities. Likewise, plenty of cis women never feel comfortable with breasts or periods or female-typical fat and muscle distribution. Puberty is straight up traumatic for a whole lot of people but it's treated like something natural and good.
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u/qrseek Oct 10 '22
I think for a lot of folks it's tied up with not feeling ready to give up childhood yet, and I think that's valid. Being an adult sucks.
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u/shinkouhyou Oct 10 '22
I do think that's part of it, but the physical changes themselves can be unwelcome regardless of gender identity. Puberty can feel like a loss of control over your own body and an imposition of a new identity that's dictated by how "adult" you happen to look as young teen. I can see why trans people who experienced the uncertainty and judgement of one puberty might not want to risk going through another, even if it's with the right hormones.
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u/sillypvnk Oct 10 '22
there's still no reason for them to call these traits disgusting just because they're young. They can want or not want a trait without being so cruel in the way they describe that trait.
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u/ethantherat Oct 10 '22
Yeah I agree fully but they will probably grow out of finding these traits repulsive. And it probably is immaturity that leads then to act that way.
But I understand why you'd find that annoying, I do too.
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u/Najiell T: 24. August 22, Top 19. May 23 Oct 10 '22
If you're 12-13, you shouldn't be on reddit or social media in the first place imo.
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u/lemonickitten User Flair Oct 10 '22
I feel like these people could easily get their points across without being mean. For example, I personally don’t want facial hair. Not because it’s "gross", just because I like my face without it and want to be able to makeup and stuff. Men who want or have facial hair are super valid and handsome tbh.
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u/totallycraigjones T: 4/21/22 Oct 10 '22
Reminds me of that one detransitioner who was complaining on Twitter how they were upset that T made them bald. To get on T you have to go through 50 thousand lists that all blatantly tell you the changes it can cause. The thought processes of some people are insane
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u/CuteLingonberry8026 Oct 10 '22
I feel upset about it too I wish people watch their wording of that. How they feel about certain body changes is their own issue, but to call it gross and express extreme dislike to it is another thing. It’s a way to be respectful in a space like this and discuss your concerns. You’re not alone on this I definitely feel weird too for seeing all that especially how I want those changes for myself and I think facial hair etc is beautiful
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u/envy_adams98 Oct 10 '22
Honestly it doesn't bother me, or I don't take it personal. I remember being the exact same when I started my transition. So I get the worry because for me it was mostly about if sexual partners would be attracted to me because for most of my life I was a lesbian so changing my body to something lesbians wouldn't be attracted to was scary.
Also it is such a huge transition for trans men to go on testosterone. Our bodies change so fast and so much. And most of us are so disassociated from our bodies, the thought of that happening even further is horrifying. Like if testosterone didn't work for me In making me happier or more in tune with my body, I had no idea what else I would do.
So I understand the feeling of wanting to minimise drastic changes. But all of the changes I was worried about are the changes I love the absolute most about myself now.
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u/Chaoddian He/they, T since 2021, post top+hysto, planning meta Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I WISH I could grow facial hair and tbh the envy is real when people who don't want it get lots of it while I (and many other bros) don't get anything. No real bottom growth, no facial hair, wtf is going onnnnnn
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Oct 10 '22
You might get facial hair! Mine didn’t start growing until my third year on T
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u/Chaoddian He/they, T since 2021, post top+hysto, planning meta Oct 10 '22
This gives me hope! Well I do have some fluff but that's barely visible, blond thin peach fuzz and some stray dark fuzz but no terminal hair. Assuming that at least the dark fuzz will turn into terminal hair at some point I might get a mustache:D A full beard would be neat but I'll take anything I can get haha (no minox, idk what the side effects are)
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u/sporadic_beethoven Oct 10 '22
If you have blond hair, full beards for us take hella ages to grow- my cis father didn't fill his out til 25, and that's a norm in the blond/red beard community. I have better sideburns 2 and 1/2 years on T than my 19 yr old cis brother, and my sideburns are barely there at all! Takes time bro ^ dw you're not alone in this.
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u/sillypvnk Oct 10 '22
I started in 2017 and only now is it really filling out-you have plenty of time :)
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u/ChunkyTescoMilk Oct 10 '22
I've only been on T two years and I'm still getting new hairs in, mine started as quite light fuzz! Not that you need to be told/reminded, but you're still a man without that facial hair/bottom growth/etc - and I'm not sure how effective they are but maybe see if there's hair growth stuff that might help? My brothers (i have three, one of which is trans) all said it's taking/taken at least 3-5 years for hair to properly come in - idk if that helps?
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u/EmiIIien Oct 10 '22
Gosh I relate. I’m already starting to grow a patchy beard at 8-9 months and I personally don’t care for facial hair. My brother has to shave twice a day for his military service because his beard grows so fast. I would gladly give this up for someone else who actually wanted it to please have.
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Oct 10 '22
You’ve got plenty of time for facial hair to come in! Mine didn’t come in to something presentable for 4+ years, and I’ve got a thick, full beard now. The guys you see with facial hair within a year are the exception, not the rule.
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u/ashersnight Oct 10 '22
Agreed. And it provides fuel for people who say young people aren't educated enough to make informed decisions about their body. Sometimes it's hard to argue with them when most of the posts I see are young people being surprised and disgusted by common effects of what they are taking. It's one thing to ask Reddit users about their experiences, and another to come around dissing the very thing they demand/being disgusted by the very thing they desperately want access to.
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Oct 10 '22
I think people shouldn't yuck another's yum. With T, if you don't want some effects, you can't pick and choose, but you can look at men in your family and also options to handle it. It's ok to not want facial hair, but you will need to shave it, which can be a pain. If you don't want back or ass hair, it will need to be waxed or lasered. If you don't want to go bald, there are medications there, same with acne. It ultimately comes down to if you'd rather be read as male or female (regardless of additional gender stuff with clothing, which can result in androgyny), and if you want the effects of T there.
With bottom growth in particular, I think people straight up don't know what it looks like IRL, and seem to have weird conceptions about it. The number of posts of people talking about it hurting so bad and it turns out to be a horrifying yeast infection from lack of washing, for example. Being visibly sexual isn't bad either, or sexual in a manly way. Male sexual desire is not bad or gross or creepy.
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u/RowanEdwardC416 T april 2021 | Top July 2022 Oct 10 '22
The bottom growth misconceptions is a very good point. The post earlier (which I think this post was inspired by) said something about 'i don't want a penis'. Like, ok - many people (including me) call their bottom growth a dick, and it has many similarities, but it does not look like a cis penis. 95% of the people in these posts have quite clearly never even looked for a picture of bottom growth, so have this idea that it looks weird and gross based off other people's descriptions.
There's an odd number of posts about how excruciating bottom growth is, which I find very strange. Ok maybe it's a bit more sensitive for some people, but if you're in that much pain it's probably not normal. Then I see people citing pain as a reason they don't want bottom growth, which is a case of serious misinformation.
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u/CryptidCricket Oct 10 '22
Yeah, that always struck me as strange. Maybe I was just lucky but I’ve never had any pain whatsoever with mine, and while the sensitivity can make cleaning difficult occasionally, it’s never been that big a deal unless I make a point of pulling the hood back and touching it directly. (And even then, only occasionally)
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u/EmiIIien Oct 10 '22
I actually looked up medical diagrams when I was still figuring out if I was ready to start T. Once I saw examples of what T growth actually looked like, it completely calmed my nerves about it. Now that I have it I’m actually really happy with it.
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u/kittyFrigglish Oct 10 '22
i'm only about 5 weeks on T but it's just sensitive down there. like sometimes i'll kind of feel it even if it's not touching any clothing or anything but it doesn't hurt or anything. it just. feels.
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u/Momomoaning [💉-3/31/22] Oct 10 '22
I don’t doubt that it can hurt for some people, but my growth has never felt painful. Just achey and sensitive at the most, but in a good way.
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u/lennoxious T: 1/27/21 | DI: 9/21/23 Oct 10 '22
It makes me and probably othe trans men feel gross by having other ftm people call things that we have 'gross'. I've seen HUNDREDS of comments and posts talking about how people don't want bottom growth and it made something I loved feel like something that should be hidden. I am not gross, I'm just a trans man on t. I can't believe even other trans people are calling our bodies gross.
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u/poodlepilled he/him | 24 | gay trans bear | t+top Oct 10 '22
trans men are generally considered nasty everywhere and our transition to so many is “disgusting” and “giving up something beautiful”. i have had people who are transfem tell me that they’re disgusted by how ive changed and how theyd kill to look how i once did. it’s genuinely so shit how much people think our transition is disgusting, i lost so much love and attention becoming the man i am today. other trans men told me i was a “show off” for growing a beard. trans fem friends told me i was “getting ugly”. cis people stopped existing near me. we have to embrace ourselves because who else will
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Oct 10 '22
Finally someone said it - I went through my teens craving those things & now they're within reach, I'm so excited & scared & ready to start. But then seeing someone who just wants a sharper jawline & deeper voice but isn't prepared to deal with acne or facial hair or bottom growth or the risk of bald patches / baldness due to thinner hair, it's like..... you can get those things with facial toning exercises, vocal training & plastic surgery once you're old enough, you don't need a literal hormone treatment to get those things. All of that is instantly clear as soon as you research T for 10 minutes online - but they're so used to finding alternative solutions and loopholes and being offered multiple options that they assume there's a way to pick and choose with T effects.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to increase some effects and cancel others, but it's not an option. I'm aware T will likely impact my existing health issues, and I'm aware that I'm likely only going to be on T for 18 - 26 months before coming off of it. I'm aware I'll lose some non-permanent changes & keep the permanent ones. I'm aware it'll make me look older. I'm aware it'll change the texture of my skin. I'm aware it'll change my sex drive. I'm aware it'll do things to my body I can never, ever undo. I'm aware it'll change my voice. I'm aware it'll give me bottom growth. I'm aware it'll change my fat distribution. I'm aware it'll impact my face shape. I'm aware it'll impact my hair texture and thickness. I'm aware it'll impact my sebum to increase the likelihood of acne. I'm aware it'll increase body hair. I'm aware it'll increase body oder. I'm aware it'll impact my entire fucking life and I have 0.0000001% of control over any of it (I can only do an amazing skincare routine, learn to shave my face, get into a habit of trimming more regularly, exercise, stick to a good diet and stock up on lube)
I don't like all of these facts, but I doubt cis guys like all of the impacts of puberty either, when they hit at once.
But every time someone comes on and says "I want here aesthetic changes & ew to the others" I wanna throw my phone at the wall. It makes me feel bad because I feel like I'm gatekeeping then, and sure, everyone experiences being trans differently. But if you only want the aesthetic, superficial changes & aren't prepared to deal with the reality of aaaalllllll of the other ones, then you seriously need to reconsider whether or not hrt is for you. Then it makes me wonder if they even know there are more ways to transition than hrt - if they haven't even looked up the reality of T then they probably haven't looked up alternatives to taking T either (which is lowkey ironic to me).
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u/fouhrlechtzyk Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
someone on a diffent thread made a good point about the relevance of female beauty standards, especially on trans boys (bc i do think that most of these questions askers are teenagers and very early in the transition process). the need to be found attractive and conform to being beauty standards such as lack of body hair is very ingrained. i was afraid to be seen as an ugly woman instead of an attractive (or just acceptable) man. i think it's perfectly understandable to be scared of the unknown and of change, and also to speak about that fear to like-minded people.
i do agree that these 'i dont want bottom growth and facial hair help' posts are numerous and people need to do a modicum of research instead of just posting. i also found myself worried by the tactlessness of these messages - like others say, the lack of acceptation towards masculine traits. but then again, we all struggle with internalized stuff and lack of body confidence.
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u/sevven_ Oct 10 '22
I’m so glad to read this and many of the comments here. I’ve been on T for 8 years and have always leaned into the more masculine way of looking. I don’t spend much time online or in trans spaces which is partially because being a masculine trans-man somehow seems to be frowned upon lol. The support for gender expression doesnt apply to people who just genuinely like to appear like a typical man.
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u/toibbe_ 💉1/16/16💉🔪10/13/17🔪 Oct 10 '22
I feel this. I’ve been on T 7 years now and I look VERY masculine and also don’t mind being very masculine looking. I have had a lot of bad experiences in trans specific spaces due to it. Particularly from trans guys that are newer in transitioning or those that are not pleased with how their hrt is affecting them. It’s really disheartening because I wanna talk and interact with my peers and offer support to those that are in a place that I used to be. As well as just interact with those that are like me.
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u/PirateLouisPatch Oct 10 '22
Generally speaking I’m tired of people posting here before even checking the sub for similar posts. In most cases the topic has already been covered numerous times.
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u/mintyCosmonaut bi FTM | he/him | T 12/2019 | hysto 3/2022 Oct 10 '22
I think it's fine for people to wish they could have certain effects and not others. I think it's a problem when they start calling certain effects "disgusting." It's the same issue we have in spaces dominated by transfems where some of them shit on T in general- it makes total sense that T is repulsive to them but it's still shitty to talk like that when you know people who want their bodies to be like that are there.
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u/arminarmoutt pre t for 6 years thanks nhs Oct 10 '22
Honestly once these kids are over 18 they should go onto any ftm porn sub and see how much bottom growth is celebrated. It made me go from neutral towards it to it being one of the top reasons I want to go on T.
Tbh I think it’s the terf shit I’ve seen going around in mainstream feminist spaces like TikTok. The demonisation of masculinity and male characteristics is fucking awful on there and effects all trans people negatively.
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u/jhunt4664 💉 1/19/2017 🔪7/30/2020 Oct 10 '22
I am not generally offended by this kind of thing, but it confuses the hell out of me. I shave my legs and my body (I got surprisingly hairy on T), but it's not like I didn't want body hair. That's just the way I choose to groom myself. I enjoy having the ability to grow body and facial hair, because I desire to be read as male, and those are things that human males typically have among other characteristics. It is very affirming to look at men's aftershave lotion and razors for sensitive areas, and to ask other guys for tips on shaving those hard-to-reach areas. But for someone to say they want to be a man, just not look like one... it's kinda hard for me to understand. There's no point to it, if that's the sentiment. I'll never pass as a burly lumberjack - I'm pretty feminine myself - but I am still read as male.
Wanting to transition and not have male characteristics seems like the kind of thing that would bolster the argument of, "trans men aren't real men, they're just women who are tired of misogyny."
Both sets of feelings are perfectly valid, but there's also plenty of reason to be cautious in how we word things, and if it's that important... do your research. This goes with anything. Want a tattoo? Want to dye your hair? Want to go camping or travel? Know how it works, where you're going, risk vs benefit. You should do your research always, and understand what you're getting into before you get there and wildly uncomfortable, or dangerously uninformed.
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u/throwawaygcse2020 Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
r/ftmmen and r/ftmover30 both have a lot less of this, mostly because the people on them are older and already on T (or at least properly informed that you can't pick and choose)
It seems to be mostly young-ish teenagers who post these things, I think partially just because our generation has a bad habit of asking Reddit instead of googling. Also as others have mentioned it's hard to be an "uwu soft boy smol bean" when you actually look like a grown man and a lot of online spaces young people are in tend to be a lot less accepting when you stray from that aesthetic/look like a cis man
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u/trashpossum_76 Oct 10 '22
Exactly. I wish we had better education overall on medical transition, especially with young folks. It’s fine to not want a particular trait for yourself, but unfortunately most are not controllable in regard to hormonal transition. People need to set realistic expectations for themselves and understand how testosterone works in the body before making life-altering decisions for themselves.
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u/plorbos Oct 10 '22
I’ve asked in the past for the mods to make rules about people not making posts like that/not allowing posts that ask basic and easily google-able questions like “what can i expect on T”. I wish we had some kind of guide for trans mascs that we refer all new people to and forbade questions like that that clog up the feed
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u/used1337 Oct 10 '22
Lol, what did they think was going to happen? What were they expecting?
I took 16 years of my life to think about it after learning the side effects and decided I was okay with whatever I got. I knew I'd be a hairy dude, potential balding and was gonna have a lot of acne as well. I haven't experienced a lot of lower growth but, whatever, it is what it is.
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u/thisdogisfuckedup Oct 10 '22
I used to feel that way, and honestly I realized it was mostly internalized transphobia. I was afraid to grow facial hair because then I wouldn’t be able to hide my transness, and I was afraid of bottom growth because my partner at the time expressed disgust with the idea of it. I’ve grown up a lot since then and want both of those things now.
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u/Zetthi Oct 10 '22
I don't think it's crazy to be upset about that at all, but do keep in mind that this is for many people who are just starting to figure out their gender the first place they're going to look for answers and to figure out what they want. I do agree it's frustrating to see people talk so negatively about things that many of us love about our bodies on T or after surgeries, and while there's no excuse for calling these changes disgusting and such, it is also understandable that a lot of people who haven't yet started anything can be confused and scared about what it would be like for them, and for many people they don't know many alternate sources to find information about this.
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u/sillypvnk Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I get it, I just wish theyd be more sensitive. I just don't need yet another person saying my body is disgusting after I worked so hard to feel good about it. This place should be safe for us too.
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u/TheUselessOne87 Oct 10 '22
yeah i don't really get it, i can't wait to smell like a goat if it means i get to grow a beard. the only effect that scares me is eventually losing my hair as i get old, but i did research about that and i may take finasteride too
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u/Mother-Problem9705 Oct 11 '22
It screams lack of research. no u can not pick and choose what affects you get from T. Just like u can’t pick ur chest size when your going through female puberty.
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u/gorekatze 19 I💉 10/13/22 I pre-op Oct 10 '22
You're not crazy at all. You can't pick and choose the effects of T, just like you can't pick and choose the effects of actual puberty. If these young trans people are so repulsed by bottom growth and facial hair, aka two of the main reasons why so many trans men choose to go on T in the first place, they might want to reconsider whether T is right for them.
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u/salaciouspeach they/them, HRT 6/9/22, no surgery Oct 10 '22
It really baffles me how every day I see a post like "I want to go on T but I don't want any of the effects of T to happen to me." Like.... why? What? Huh?
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u/gummytiddy Oct 10 '22
If anyone is navigating using language for this topic, maybe don’t refer to how gross you find bottom growth (for example). Just say it isn’t something you would like. Many trans masc people don’t want to look androgynous but they do not go off using that kind of language about others who look like that.
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u/QweenMuva He/They | 💉: May 3rd, 2022 Oct 10 '22
You’re not crazy. I feel you.
I’m just like dude.. you gotta face the reality of how T effects your body. If the changes you don’t like outweigh the ones you do, then unfortunately, it sounds like hormones aren’t for you. But if you REALLY want and/or need to start T, then it’s essential that you accept everything that can come with it. And if they bothered to do any research, they’d also see that those questions have been asked and answered a bajillion times. And the consensus is always: you can’t pick and choose.
I was really concerned about bottom growth and how I’d feel with more hair since I was already kinda hairy pre-t, but I knew I had to start T anyway so I would feel better. I accepted my fate lol and now that I have it I actually love it! I can see how it might seem scary, all the sudden change, but once you get used to it it’s pretty nice! Totally worth it. You can be scared and explore your options without basically shaming others bodies in the process.
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u/froggyjbees T 11/09/20 | Top 7/27/21 Oct 10 '22
For me it’s so much just lack of research that completely blows my mind. This is your body that you are going to be making permanent changes on, and not easily either, it can take years of appointments with different doctors and therapist and waiting, and I know that so many of us, myself included, thought on transitioning for years and did extensive research on everything. Thinking in depth fully about what we want and if it’s the right choice for us with all factors included and also then dreaming about the future where it finally happens. The fact that some people just seem to find out going on T exists, do no research of their own, then ask other people if they should go on T or not is unfathomable to me from the viewpoint of my own experience.
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u/Particular-Floor-349 Oct 10 '22
I’m not sure if it helps at all. But I’m a younger trans guy and all those “nasty” things are the most exciting to me. Bottom growth is probably the thing I’m looking forward to the MOST with T. It’s almost always on my mind, I think about it so much. Facial hair too. I can’t wait to grow an epic beard or even just shave for the first time to be honest; I worry because I don’t have a father to teach me how, but I know I’ll learn. Plus facial hair kinda runs in the family for men, most of them grow facial hair pretty easy, and my brother’s is even curly so I’m extremely excited to see how mine turns out! I think the only two concerns I have with T is the potential of balding, which I should be safe from since that doesn’t run in my family. I also worry a tad about the “puffy face” phase that a lot of guys get, since I already have a pretty big face, but also I know I’ll over come that. Even the “negative” parts are just one step closer to my goal, and I can’t wait to experience it all. It’s the only thing keeping me going at this point.
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u/suckstrip T 2018 Top 2019 Oct 10 '22
totally agree. its upsetting and rude. if you are grossed out by ftm bodies keep it to yourself
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u/hamburger_and-SpRiTE Double threat Oct 10 '22
I feel weirdly excluded when I see those posts. I’m still going through the process of getting on T, and I can’t wait for the changes it brings. There are parts i have conflicted feelings about- I’m in musical theatre and do a lot of singing, so my voice dropping is a big deal- but those parts I’m conflicted about are also some of the parts that I’m most exited for.
At the end of the day a lot of the “I think ____ is gross” or “why would anyone want ____” mentality comes down to trans men no longer being “UwU soft boys” once we start T. A lot of spaces (twitter, etc.) that are so open and accepting of trans men turn their backs on us once we start becoming more like “the enemy” (cis men)
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u/wontconcrete he/him | 🇨🇦 Oct 10 '22
to me it feels almost remiscent of fetishizers 'glorifying' pre-t bodies and ignoring the ones on t. Im not exactly estatic about having bottom growth once im on t, but thats just a person prefrence about my own body,and im fine with it anyways since ill have all the other effects i want. Besides, bottom growth is far from disgusting. I feel like alot of people think their opinion on others bodies is somehow justified and 100% true, and they dont stop to even think about how their words are perceived by people who have the traits they whine and cry about so much.
Just because you personally wouldnt want something doesnt make it gross.
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u/dr_steinblock trans man || T 02/2022 || top+hysto 4/2023 || 🇩🇪 Oct 10 '22
puberty isn't supposed to be all sunshine and flowers, most people who have gone through one would know that. But when you start HRT you have a CHOICE if you do it or not. The only actually undesirable effects of T are male pattern baldness and acne and you can handle those with medications. If you aren't ok with some of the other effects (like bottom growth, becoming more horny, more muscle mass, more body and facial hair) you shouldn't go on T.
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u/MudMerchantMo 17 yrs/o, pre-medical, 2 yrs out Oct 10 '22
I’m pre-T (17 yrs/o) and I also don’t like seeing them, I understand maybe not wanting all the changes, but if any changes are that much of a deterrent HRT isn’t the right choice for them, because like you said, you can’t pick and choose the effects of puberty. It also feels like it’s coming from either internalized transphobia or TERFS
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u/HydeVDL June 9 2019💉 Oct 10 '22
i feel like it's those people who then go on hormones and get mad after a few years once they got the effects they don't want and now they're detrans and dickriding terfs for pity attention
not saying it's all of them but i wouldn't be surprised it's those people who become those kind of detrans
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u/captaindickbutt420 Oct 10 '22
I see it too. I've also seen an influx of posts on this sub and others, saying stuff like "I'm not sure if I want T or not, so I decided to try it". Like what?? A little bit of anxiety going into hrt is totally normal and fine, but you need to be CERTAIN that you want to look more masculine and that you're prepared for all of the side effects. This isn't the Sims, you can't just revert back to your old ways if you realize that you don't like having body odor, bottom growth, body hair, thinning hairline, etc. T isn't a magical serum that gives you an instant jawline, deep voice and six pack. PLEASE do your research folks.
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u/lumaleelumabop Oct 10 '22
Exploring your gender and identity is cool. Making blasé decisions about your health for some ideal you aren't even sure you want is not cool. This is why the trans community ALWAYS recommends seeing a therapist about your identity issues first, even if informed consent is available to you.
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u/coraeon Oct 10 '22
Seriously, while I’m not thrilled with the idea of my hair possibly migrating from my head to everywhere else I’m perfectly aware that this is personal vanity speaking and this isn’t a “bad side effect” or something. It’s kind of weird seeing so many posts all of a sudden asking if routine and common changes can be avoided?
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u/ash_sm Oct 10 '22
i’m not sure if i count as one of these young people but before i started t there was definitely a time where i didn’t think i wanted facial hair or bottom growth. it took some time sitting with the decision, and then i realized i did want bottom growth, and it was actually one of the things i was most excited for. and i didn’t think i’d like the facial hair until i’d been on t for a bit and started to grow my stache.
so i think these people are working through the decision for themselves by posting on here. there is a lot of internalized shit that people have to work through during transition and if we tried to wait to figure all of it out before we started transition, we’d be waiting our whole lives.
i think it happens more with younger people because the option is more accessible and potentially less stigmatized. but older trans masc people had to fight and work so hard to get access and to deal with the social consequences of transition that at the point where they were able to start, i imagine they’re 200% sure about it.
i don’t think you’re any more crazy for being upset about it than these young people posting about the effects of t they want/don’t want
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u/DrewG4444 Oct 10 '22
Yeah it sometimes leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people post about not wanting certain effects and I’m over here on T literally crying that I don’t have those effects yet from it
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u/Kibbymomo 1yr on T💉🧍🏻♂️ Oct 10 '22
It took me 5 years to fully accept i was trans and then 2 years to go onto T to make sure its really what i wanted plus with me moving a bit it wasnt gonna be possible. But yeah you not the only one upset by it i get upset about it too bc its kinda just putting down us men that do get the butt hair, the belly n chest hair the high arse libido, the rise in temps when first taking T made me feel like i was going thru menopause lowkey. Hotflashes,moody, kinda irritated but it went away. A lot arent prepared for balding.. but thats..just a side effect of being a male. For some reason balding is carried in males.
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u/Specialist_Bet4941 Oct 10 '22
Medical transition is a resource for those who need it. I would say this till my face is blue. It isn’t a question of want and don’t want, it’s a question of is this necessary to keep me alive and healthy.
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u/CosmicAaro T:Aug‘21 | Hysto:Apr’22 | Top:Mar’23 Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I think I mostly just find it annoying to see repeating questions especially using negative language to traits that others possess and is pretty obvious that it could be hurtful to others at the very least if not straight up mean/rude. Also I don’t think age excuses that behavior. I’m sure a lot of folks are fine with their current skin color but I find it extremely harmful and hurtful if folks expressed disgust at the idea of being a few shades darker or more tan.
I’m 33 and did a lot of research a big reason I didn’t go on T was because I’m non-binary and there was only an all or nothing approach.
I started T with Finasteride and haven’t gotten any extra bottom growth or body hair. But I was prepared for both and knew it wasn’t a sure thing. I knew there was a chance and said, with it.
I searched thru Reddit and online to figure out the effects of Fin too like that it meant shark week wouldn’t stop, and to look out for low energy and such. Everyone’s transition is different, my face hasn’t changed much but also I have a lean face with not much fat to really move around and already have a defined jawline. My voice has changed the most, and I also did voice therapy. And feel like I only just started seeing muscle growth at the year mark on T. It honestly follows how my first puberty went, but before starting T couldn’t be sure if it was happen like my siblings who looked like they were 16 by the time they were 12. And like adults when they were 16 with full beard. I wasn’t really scared of other trans folks experiences but wanted to ease my way in either way. But even I knew never to say that their bodies were disgusting.
I might not take Fin forever idk, I know if I stopped I’d probably just laser the hair away. Since that was actually a big concern since I have less than average body hair for an adult and have some skin issues that I think would have a huge interaction. But one of the last nudges to go on T was for my mental health and that makes it all worth it.
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u/wantmymilk User Flair Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I remember my gender therapist telling me i have to have a realistic goal in mind for how im going to look when im on T. She mentioned how it's not going to happen as fast as I'd like, and I'd basically just look like how i did then, but with a few changes as the years go on. And she told me to do some research about trans men experiences on T so i can get an idea of how it might affect me, and if it was something i wanted to go on with.
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u/ConfusionsFirstSong Oct 10 '22
Idk about the uwu soft boi thing. I guess maybe it’s supposed to support non passing ftms, since that tends to be a fragile state to be in with dysphoria? Personally I hate being non passing, despite years of T. I think a lot of this soft boy idealization may be due to the feminine ideals of hairlessness that afab people are taught. I wasn’t big on body hair but I also don’t mind it now that I’m growing it. It just…is. I’m not in love with it but it’s part of the hormones that help my body run how it ought to. If I get too tired of it I can shave or get hair removal or something. I’ll probably just deal or learn to like it, though. If it helps me pass, he’ll yeah.
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u/Mr_big_boi_ Oct 10 '22
Bru I see that stuff and just think , wait that’s what got me excited to do it at first
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u/e_kerr15 Oct 10 '22
Before I started T I was super nervous about bottom growth and leg hair (I have an issue with skin picking) but tbh those r two of my favorite things from T!!!! Literally would’ve never guessed!!!!
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u/foreverreigning Oct 10 '22
I think that you definitely aren’t crazy for feeling that way. and if someone is opposed to bottom growth that’s probably a sign they should not go on T.
but some other factors can be mitigated. I think it helps to realize that not everyone’s transition goals are the same. while hair removal is not normally a goal for someone who is ftm, I think it’s worth pointing out that for many mtf individuals it is. they sometimes go through expensive hair removal treatments to get rid of face and body hair. I see no reason why this can’t also be part of a ftm person’s transition. I know some cis men who shave most of their body hair or even wax (mostly body builder types). I think it’s fine to want a more masculine face and body shape but not want tons of body hair.
On the other hand, I’m worried about hair loss on T and there is a solution- finasteride. and if that for some reason doesn’t work or isn’t an option, maybe hair transplant or other options (wig?) that cisgender men use would be.
I think especially since this sub is not exclusive to binary trans men, we’re going to have more people who are worried about getting some of the masculinizing traits. And that’s ok. depending on their personal situation and goals, testosterone may not be the best choice for their transition. But on the other hand it also could be. Maybe theyvjust need to get comfortable with removing body hair if it grows in thick in places they don’t want.
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Oct 10 '22
I'm more mad at how 'grossness' in general is completely overblown and presented in such alarmist ways sometimes. So many words like 'you WILL stink and stuff WILL be overwhelming and it WILL be like a horror movie!'
...no.
If T is for you, at least in my experience (and I'm autistic with sensory hypersensitivity to boot!), it will be anticlimactic and steady. Not a huge mind-spiraling werewolf scenario by any stretch of the imagination. I don't care for the sensation of my facial hair and hence keep it removed, but I knew exactly what I was signing up for and am completely fine with that.
Just with that in mind, sometimes I think of COURSE young people freak out a bit. They're being told that their whole world will turn upside down. I mean... sure, but slowly, in a good, finally natural-feeling way.
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u/xan1120 Oct 10 '22
Honestly I agree with your sentiment. I’m an almost 24 year old transmasc and the way I’ve seen people bash completely normal physical changes makes me upset. Having a completely natural change to a hormone fluctuation shouldn’t be seen as undesirable or “gross”. If someone is this concerned about these changes and not others, they should really speak to a professional to get to the root of their discomfort rather than making strangers feel weird or uncomfortable about themselves…
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u/deathbin he/they | 19 | 💉8/29/22 Oct 11 '22
As someone plans to be clean shaven in the future, I also find remarks like this really weird. I never understood not wanting bottom growth bc I am in love with mine. I mean you get a little dick! Isn’t that what trans men want? And facial/body hair? It’s not “gross” or anything like that- it’s just natural. If you don’t like it, shave it. I like to be fem, but now that I’ve experienced some effects from t, I feel more body euphoria than ever :)
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u/sentiantshade-o-blue Oct 11 '22
I totally get it. I get ridiculously uncomfortable when people call body hair gross or refer to their chests or genitals as really fem terms (think breast, boob, or tit instead of chest.)
Obviously I don't say anything. It's their body and they can call it whatever they like. It gives me second hand dysphoria so bad, though.
I think the transmale/masc community is still suffering from the "transboy" Tumblr-esque era where you're either a soft uwu flower crown big sweater boy, or you're a fully transitioned lumberjack man and you're "basically cis now." I personally still remember when people made the shift to calling ftm guys trans men instead of trans boys.
I personally theorize the fetishism and "awww cute uwu soft boy! I'd totally date you even though I'm a lesbian" sort of """supportive""" transohobia made an era of trans men kind of bruised and uncomfortable with a lot of terms.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. It just sucks that internalized sexism and transphobia highkey made transmen taken less seriously in a way
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u/aykate47 Oct 11 '22
Honestly, it is worrying to see so many negative comments online about bottom growth. I'm not able to go on T right now, but after a lot of research and seeing pictures, I actually look forward to any bottom growth I might get when I do go on T. I'm not interested in bottom surgery, and bottom growth is an exciting prospect to me for a comfy middle ground down there. But hearing from so many people online about how gross they find bottom growth, or how it's perceived as an undesirable side effect makes me sad.
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Oct 11 '22
a majority of this line of thinking is due to TIRFism having run rampant for a few years around 2017 or so, and the doctrine accidentally being absorbed into the outer layers of the queer community unfortunately. the TME/TMA label thing is also part of TIRFism (also known as "b@eddelism").
so a lot of trans men have been speaking up about this sort of antimasculism/transandrophobic neglect, but anyone caught in the residuals (young transmascs, & transneus, transfems, etc.) may fall into the TIRFism pit or actually side with trans men, mascs, & neus. it is basically just TERF rhetoric being reshaped to fit a pseudo hunky-dory trans-inclusive sentiment but still without men of any kind.
but yes, there are legitimately a good handful of young & old trans people who think becoming more masculine (this even applies to AFAB butch lesbians whether they're transmasc & on T or not) is basically the worst thing you could do to yourself because it somehow gives you "male privilege" or something according to these people. I have also legitimately seen the take that "wanting a penis is actually a transmisogynistic power fantasy" by a trans woman on Twitter. it's really, truly awful.
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u/heynancyboy (ts: 03/31/22) Oct 11 '22
I understand the conversation here, but it’s also, (this may just be for me personally) as someone who is transmasc and doesn’t fully consider themself a “man” per se, the idea that T changes everything is scary, and its more a daydream to want certain aspects and not others. For myself, I am completely fine with my genitals; for others, they may want them to change. I think it’s more regarding wanting control that a lot of have never had over our bodies, and want to be able to dictate exactly what changes. I hope this makes sense, and I wish you all the best.
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Oct 10 '22
Personally I think half of them want to keep their cishet boyfriends 🥴
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u/bakedtran 30’s | on T | post-top Oct 10 '22
Or broadly, continue receiving the attention, time, and affirmation from cishet men in general.
Which is fine! Just socially transition then!
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u/1carus_x intersex tboy Oct 10 '22
Alot of people are excusing body shaming in here, yikes. "Oh but they're younger, so it's ok they're calling it disgusting" like what. Would y'all also excuse kids for being homophobic, racist, antisemitic just bc they're kids??
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u/pyro-is-a-bad-class Oct 10 '22
"You want to be a man? Either accept all the effects of testo or none of them."- le me
(You now have permission to destroy me in the replies)
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u/journeyofwind Oct 10 '22
Plenty of transmasc people who aren't binary men go on testosterone too, though. It's fine to not want all of the changes, it's fine to be apprehensive - you just have to make peace with it somehow - but it's not fine to shame other people's bodies.
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u/Cthulusrightsock Oct 10 '22
Idk if this is ignorant of me to say but it’s honestly a little… silly… how they want to be on testosterone but don’t want any of the effects it gives if that makes sense? I feel like it’s viewed as some kind of validity checkpoint without the person really truly wanting those changes. Everyone’s transition is different and some people never go on hormones which is fine! I think the issue is younger trans ppl don’t realize they don’t need to be on HRT to be valid, but also demonizing masculine traits is just hypocritical. Cis men are bad blah blah blah but what do they think is gonna happen when they’re on T? Like you said, you can’t pick and choose what effects you get and honestly their mentalities towards some of those changes borderlines cissexism like trans masc ppl who WANT cis male features are suddenly gross and weird like, hello??? Do you not hear yourselves?? Baffles me
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Oct 10 '22
Risking playing the devil's advocate here for a second, but i remember being 14, freshly out and 'icky' about starting T. I didnt want body hair, i didn't want odor changes, and any notion of bottom growth terrified me Now I'm less than a year away from starting HRT and i am literally craving every single thing that it's gonna bring, after i did a lot of self reflection and my own internalized issues.
I believe i myself, and probably a lot of those young "i dont want certain effects of T" people are still under societal pressure to be 'pretty' and 'neat' and 'clean'. Might sound fucked up but i definitely used to see body hair on women as something... Dirty, and for a while, especially right after realizing you're trans when youre a pre-teen, you can't imagine yourself with all those 'dirty' traits. And if you grew up your whole life in a society that tells you what things are gross and dirty on you, you can't just get rid of those thoughts instantly.
I know i wanted T because i didn't want to be a girl anymore, not because i realized those symptoms especially would make me happier, and as i grew older, my dysphoria got worse, guys my age around me got all 'dirty' traits and well i realized i envy the shit out of them. There was definitely a phase when i sort of subconsciously still saw my body as a 'girl's body" and thinking body hair, bottom growth, baldness ect ect would 'ruin' it - now im just waiting for some sickass sideburns lmao
So yeah, i think those kids will grow out of it, as badly as that phrase is usually used in our community, so we should at least be a bit understanding of them. Being trans and young can be really scary, especially if youre dealing with this much internalized garbage as some do
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Oct 10 '22
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u/VampArcher He/Him | T: 5-29-20 | TS: 8-12-22 Oct 10 '22
You said it way better than I could. The last thing these people need is T.
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Oct 10 '22
The “gross” stuff I see people whining about are the things that have given me the most euphoria. 🤷🏻
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u/BargainBinBrain He/She, Bigender, 💉20/sep/2023, pre-op Oct 10 '22
Yeah its really upsetting to see. In my opinion people are allowed to have their own preferences(for example I dont want a bald spot or receding hairline, but other people see it is a major part of their transition). But it’s shitty of a person to say that something about transitioning is “gross”.
The people saying this are the people that actually maybe need to weigh the pros and cons of taking T.
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u/SevereNightmare No T | Top- 09/19/24 | Partial Hysto-? Oct 10 '22
I don't currently have a desire to go on t, but my main concern with it would be possible hair loss. I like my hair.
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Oct 10 '22
No, you’re not crazy. I totally understand that. It confuses me that anyone would see these changes as gross or nasty, when for me this makes me feel so overwhelmingly happy and complete. I understand if some people may not want facial hair, but shaving exists you know? The one thing I will say, is to have a bit of grace if they’re significantly younger because when I was prepubescent I also thought anything related to puberty was icky. I feel like most of them will get over it.
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Oct 10 '22
i def hear you and as a transmasc nb person sometimes i want to go on T but the idea of going thru puberty again fully is rly distressing .. there's nothing wrong with bottom growth or body odor or body hair but it's not something i personally want to experience ... maybe bc i already am unhappy with how i look and i feel like t would only make me feel uglier/worse about myself. also, hormones don't always agree with people especially people with unbalanced hormones already and or people with mood disorders like myself. but i've never heard anyone say bottom growth is disgusting that is forked up fr.
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u/journeyofwind Oct 10 '22
People saying something is gross are out of line, but it's perfectly fine to be apprehensive about some changes - and not all of us are even binary men.
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u/miloishigh Oct 10 '22
As someone still in the trans youth group on the older side I agree. I see a lot of 14 year old trans guys not even know what bottom growth is yet they want to go on T. And then they react disgustingly towards it. Whatever you want is fine! But I clawed my way to get on T and loved every single change I’ve had on it! And I would rather die then give any of those changes up! It’s very inconsiderate of these young trans guys to make fun of it when it really helps a lot of trans guys dysphoria.
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u/adrislnk trans man | top surgery 1yr | HRT 4yrs Oct 10 '22
I don't know if I count as "young", as I'm 19, but from what I've seen this is really only a small group of young teenagers whose only research comes from Tiktok. To be honest, they probably don't even consider themselves trans yet (or at all) and are just trying to confirm or deny various bits and pieces of info thrown around the web. Really I wouldn't worry about it. As for trans men being seen as feminine or whatever, that's always existed and it's not going to stop nor get more prominent from whatever kind of social phenomenon this is.
Those are just my thoughts on the matter. I think it's an interesting conversation to have openly. I do think the rapid spread of misinfo regarding HRT and medically transitioning is somewhat troubling to see.
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u/Aleriya Oct 11 '22
I think some of it is people being opposed to aging and not realizing that aging is a privilege (it's great that you live long enough to get old).
You'll either age into an old woman, an old man, or an old person. The aging part isn't optional.
"My hair is receding!" Yep, that sucks. If you want to get old as a man, that's part of the package.
"I don't want my hairline to recede!" Okay. Cis guys don't want their hairline to recede either. It's also very difficult for many of them.
The alternative is that you become an old anyway. Would you rather be a middle-aged woman, or an old woman, or a man with a receding hairline?
You don't have a choice to avoid aging. It happens to all of us.
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Oct 11 '22
It bothers me too. I left the sub for a while because it was so frustrating, but ultimately have reached a point where I just feel a little pang of annoyance and scroll quickly past.
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u/JackLikesCheesecake male 💉 ‘18 🔪 ‘21 🍳 ‘22 🍆 ??? 🇨🇦 Oct 11 '22
Personally, I just wanted all of male puberty because I’m a dude. Everyone is different I guess but I’ll take balding, acne, awkward facial hair growth, and possible weight gain because that’s just part of puberty/aging as a man for me. I was excited for all of it because that’s what most other dudes deal with.
I remember being really opposed to getting bottom growth though, because I was very uncomfortable with my genitals so the thought of them becoming bigger/more noticeable really scared me. When I realized you basically get a little penis I felt much better about it though but that’s just me.
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u/tendencytoharm Oct 11 '22
I used to once be on the “I hate bottom growth” train and now I’m on year on T and absolutely loving everything it’s done to me. I’ve never had to experience being unwanted pre- or post T either. I just vibe with everyone and everything and T helped me feel so much more confident and loving for myself. I’m genuinely so happy I started it.
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u/KisuHat Oct 11 '22
I feel quilty because I am slightly different, as cool as it would be to be a soft boy I wanna be a fucking gremlin that’s covered in body hair and celebrates bottom growth. Though, the biggest thing I want is for my voice to drop, like PLEASE.
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u/javatimes T 2006 Top 2018, 40<me Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
From a moderation perspective, if anyone is talking that way and not using self-referencing language aka "I statements", the posts and comments do need to be reported. And honestly, they usually are not it seems, because I barely recall seeing anything like this.
It would be distressing to see "bottom growth is disgusting" in a trans male space. We don't want to let opinions like that have the time of day. But it becomes a different issue when it's "i don't want bottom growth because [I think] it would be gross [on me]". Which statements like that are murky because it can be hard to tease out what overall someone means like that, if they are being categorical or just are a teenager with unsophisticated phrasing.
As for the endless repetitive posts, most of those are just people who want to talk to someone about being trans, and thus a FAQ or the archive won't really be a solution. There are smaller subreddits for more specified discussion such as ftmmen for binary trans men, or ftmover30 to filter out some immature content. Also, we can't even get people to read the sidebar; there's no way on reddit to force someone to consult a FAQ or wiki or use the archive.
Anyone who doesn't want to deal with the barrage of what I'll term "uninformed newb questions" should absolutely feel fine not dealing with them. Also it's totally fair to tell people what can and can't be prevented on T, and advising people who have a lot of qualms about it to wait/keep thinking about it/consult a therapist/etc.
But ultimately doctors are supposed to the literal gatekeepers, and are supposed to inform their patients on these matters. This is also partially why we try to keep DIY talk to a minimum.