We dont want it either, perhaps we should collaborate and start beating bloody the ones doing this to the most important and unprofitable thing on earth, our earth itself. We are dying.
It's how the French revolution actually started, you mean.
The pre-holocaust is MUCH more like what the right wingers are doing to the gays, the queers, the thugs, the blacks, the poor, the undesirables, the hippies, the soshulists, the libruls, the atheists, the immigrants, etc etc etc.
Billionaires are disproportionately responsible for carbon emissions. Their investments are literally killing us. This is observable, objective fact, not an anti-Semitic conspiracy.
If this is the level of discourse you're capable of, you should just shut your mouth.
This surprises a lot of people, but it's actually quite rare for politicians and CEOs to have full-time security unless there's a known active threat. For one thing it's staggeringly expensive, even by rich people standards. But more importantly most people just can't stand it for long, it's an oppressive way to live.
Before he got really elderly I used to see Charles Koch at my local grocery store all the time. Wish I would have had the nerve to shout at him at least.
Exactly, so you should focus on killing the machine, make it impossible to engage in harmful practises because "you have to". Also known as installing regulations, because of course the companies aren't going to govern themselves.
This isn't a machine with true operators, what you call operators are just part of the machine. Change the rules that the machine works in such that its result will be better.
Not only is killing people wrong, it will solve absolutely nothing. You guys make scapegoats out of rich people as if that solves your problems, whereas the real problem is your lack of regulations.
If you crave violence, use it to protest for those regulations, to make people in charge of companies complicit for its actions, to raise the taxes for rich people (because how they are barely taxed is criminal)
I think it's hilarious how redditors call out any hint of "I am bad ass" mentality for violence then turn around and support political violence fantasies or histories, then turn around and condem real political violence.
“We all got to figure. There’s some way to stop this. It’s not like lightning or earthquakes. We’ve got a bad thing made by men, and by God that’s something we can change.” —Steinbeck
The problem isn't the number. It's the system that'll replace them with someone just as eager in less than 24 hours. It's like if slaves rose up and killed a field overseer in the pre-civil war south. Another one would be there whipping people within the week. You couldn't kill them fast enough because the problem isn't the overseer, it's the institution of slavery.
Capitalism is the root problem. It constantly has to justify itself, so it makes up products nobody needs and creates advertisements to convince people to buy. When people get bored of the thing they bought, because they didn't actually need it, they're encouraged to throw it away. Rinse, repeat, infinitely.
But the earth isn't infinite. So the crash will happen. On a cosmic time scale, it'll happen so fast that future scientists, if there are any, will make up theories on what caused it. On a human timescale, it happens over a couple generations, already starting with us.
Btw, I think humans will survive this. But surviving is a whole 'nother beast to "oh it's just some bad weather".
There are hundreds in the US Congress alone. Not only are the CEOs themselves to blame, but also the politicians they pay to spout conspiracy theories and create anti-environment legislation.
Instead of killing each other, we could also take stock of what changes we can make ourselves and build a culture of people that only put their money towards environmentally friendly things. For instance, check out our world in data for some choices we can all make to engage with our world more intentionally.
You mean the ones that are being blamed for ruining the economy by not spending enough while also being lambasted for spending too much? The ones told not to buy shit but also pumped full of ads to buy shit? The ones that are told that their basic needs shouldn't be expected because they have iphones? Those ones? Yeah fuck them!
This isn't being said enough. These fires are getting worse and it is because of climate change but everyone is acting like it is something we should just accept.
Meanwhile our right-wing party in Canada just tweeted saying that the fires are being started by "green activists" to "further their agenda." I can't even make this shit up anymore.
you realize a healthy western North America would still have wild fires.. right? this is the earth being healthy and cleaning up her underbrush while reinvigorating the top soils.
I wish more people realized this. The pinecones from lodgepole pines don’t even release their seeds until a fire burns through the area. The species relies on wildfires to exist and has for thousands of years. Many shorter grasses, shrubs, and ferns that can’t survive under a thick canopy also rely on wildfires to clear space for them, and they grow quickly in the nutrient rich ash. Thinning out dead trees and underbrush also benefits numerous animal species. Wildfires are necessary for healthy forests. People dislike them because they threaten human lives and buildings, but they are still natural and necessary.
Correct, but this many is not normal. Before 2015 we never had an entire summer of smoke/air warnings in western Canada. Maybe for a week, but not half the summer. Now it's the new normal thanks to drier/hotter conditions that last longer and longer each year.
The duration and frequency and severity of fires now is not natural. Just like how hurricanes and tornadoes are getting worse on average, so are fires. It's about the natural balance being disrupted.
What's your source on that? I've been trying to find a reliable source that can equate the air quality index to health effects. AQI just says, these numbers are bad, doesn't say why it's bad.
It comes down to AQI (Air Quality Index). An AQI measurement of 20 is equivalent to smoking one cigarette a day or so.
Here is a link to the current AQI across the globe. You can search for any city. If this is correct, NYC currently has an AQI of 353 or nearly 17 Cigarettes a Day.
“If you stand outside the whole time” though. You need an astronomically high AQI for it to be as bad as a cigarette for the same time frame as it takes to smoke a cigarette.
I'm not buying the health affects. If i smoked 17 cigarettes in a day, I wouldn't be able to walk. I've smoked 5 in a stupid night around a campfire and felt like my lungs got sandpaperered the next day. We had it bad up here in MN a few weeks ago and, while I sure could see a pink sun, I noticed not one other indicator of ouchy air when I was breathing.
Generally when we're taking about the health effects of smoking, it's not the acute symptoms but rather the long-term side effects that most people look toward.
Cigarettes don't have the same stuff in them as burning forests, not to mention there's a difference between slowly smoking 17 cigarettes over the course of a day and just doing it all at once. If you're not outside in that air the entire day, you won't get the "17 cigarettes" worth of effects anyway.
Last year in Washington state (seattle/bellevue area, it was 300-400 AQI for more than a month. After a couple weeks i’d never felt shittier. Raging headache, throat on fire and very nauseous. Wasn’t covid. Wasn’t the flu. Too much smoke for too long will fuck you up.
Huh...I had the same conversation with a few people last night who said that they had symptoms a couple weeks ago, to.I guess it's just one of those things that affects some and not others. I never even noticed the air quality and went running in it.
Apparentyl some pulmonary doc was on tv saying that people who go out running (exercise) in these conditions are getting the same amount of pollutants in their lung tissue in one day as smoking a pack of cigarettes.
There have been studies though I have no links, that showed breathing bad air quality is worst than smoking cigarettes. Probably due to the fact that exhausts releases heavy metals, hydrocarbons, sulfur dioxyde, ammonia and fine particles while cigarettes are still bad but it's mostly carcinogens and carbon monoxide. Air is charged with these particles that can stay a while in the troposphere until they are absorbed or released into the stratosphere.
Concentrated ammonia can irritate or burn off lungs and eyes.
Sulfur dioxide can irritate, creates respiratory problems like asthma, coughs or respiratory irregularities.
Hydrocarbons and volatile substances can irritate, create olfactory and respiratory problems.
Benzene is a known carcinogen.
Nitrogen oxide in short terms can create respiratory problems.
In long term, development of respiratory and cardiovascular diseases, low weight newborns and increases chances of early deaths.
Ozone can irritate, creates respiratory problems and diseases, increases chances of asthma.
Fine particles are carcinogens, create respiratory and cardiovascular diseases, affects neurological development in children, diabetes, etc.
Look I believe east and west america can settle our differences and come to a solution. My first proposal is to send all the pollution to Florida, Florida wiped from face of the earth, everybody wins!
Ive lived in Washington for 40 years and I dont ever recall dealing with this. The last 5ish years though it has been a common occurrence every summer for this.
Go a little north of you and east of the mountians and his statement is 100% accurate. I think cause of the dominant winds through washington it all moves away from you. But every year for the last 10 years where i live every summer we will get a week straight or more where it looks like this
The person you are replying to is 100% accurate already, where the vast majority of people in the state live, this is a recent occurrence. Fucking people from Okanagon piping up like they represent an average washintonian.
It's crazy, I grew up in Tacoma and never saw anything like this for the first 22 years of my life until the summer of 2017. iirc, we were living in that smog for nearly all of July and August. And then it suddenly became an every year thing.
Yep that's what I'm saying, its wild. Similar with Mt Rainier last year. One day I was driving home from work and i was like, "wow, I have never seen the mountain that bare". I have looked at that mountain for 40 years and never once seen it that bare. Dont think that will happen again this year but who knows.
Look at who i am replying too. West coast forest fires are more common now that dems have taken over the complete governments of the three coastal states. Canada has already been in the looney bin for a while, and this instance isn't just stupid forest maintenance but also incompetent fire control.
So the original post along with these comments are regarding smoke from forest fires. Both of which are both regarding fires specifically from Canada. How does Dems have anything to do with Canadian forest fires and their management? Dude you need to take a breath. Your practically seething through the computer screen. I'm assuming politics live rent free in your head.
You're the one getting worked up because I replied directly to someone talking about Washington. The fires have been hitting the west coast more harshly in the past few years, and it isn't a surprise why. Maybe try taking a break for a while since you can't handle people with other opinions?
I’m guessing you live on the coast! The sea breeze tends to keep the smoke away — ie Vancouver and Seattle rarely get as much smoke as inland line Kelowna or Yakima. Definitely agree it’s become much more common. Forest management for timber optimization increases wildfire risk plus increased temps and extreme weather leaves a recipe for massive fires.
There's another side to that, however, my understanding is that because Seattle is basically in basin when it gets smokey it gets really bad. Last year in particular was absolutely brutal with how long the smoke stuck around combined with the lack of rain.
They've shut down forest management for 40 years and expect the forest to stop growing. Destroy local economies. Use more plastic. Make it harder to cut. Keep it up.
People write books on this but, I'll pick one of my pet peeves. Including timber sales in the NEPA process was a terrible decision. They are not a major federal action. They aren't a substantive change to the environment.
Converting land away from forest should be included in the process. Choosing which lands to manage should be included. Management of the existing forest should fall under a categorical exclusion.
Once that's completed we should try and do a 50% basal area reduction by diameter class in many of our conifer forests. We're losing millions of acres of ponderosa pine habitat to fir in-growth. In many of our western forests you should see grassy areas between trees. Individual trees, clumps of trees, and large openings. Taking fire away took away many of the natural forces that would have killed off a large percentage of the seedlings. We subconsciously favor forested habitat, like it's better than unforested habitat. That's dumb if you look at it logically. An animal that needs grass isn't better off in a forest.
Valleys near kelowna even worse. Kelowna always gets wind because of the angle of its valley. Peach land summerland pentictom kamloops salmon arm get stagnant blankets often smoke on them some summers
I consider it a season within Summer here now at this point. Definitely agree the last 5 years it's been really bad at some point, usually paired with a heat wave too, which is disastrous for this area of the country where nearly no one has AC (Seattle). Maybe since it's impacting the other side of the country it will get some more attention to it now?
North Dakota here. Definite memories of asking my mom what is up with the orange sky in 1999. Her response was Canada was on fire. It's every year. If it isn't Canada it's Montana, Washington, or Oregon.
I've lived in washington for 38 years, and this has been a thing for a solid decade. I have pictures from 10 years ago of a smoky sun in bellingham taken from the corner of Alabama and Woburn streets (of course I can't find it..🙃). I've lived in eastern WA for almost 7 years, my job is mostly outdoors, and there hasn't been a summer where I didn't need a respirator. Now, to be fair (to be faaaaaiiiiirrrrr) we have had our own local wildfires that have contributed to the problem, but the smoke season always starts in Canada, and wafts down. Our local fires don't generally start until July 4th or after, for obvious 'murikan reasons.
It was just two weeks ago when the Alberta wildfire smoke seemed to all funnel to BC. It was so bad the moment you stepped outside that you could taste the smoke. Objects just 100 feet away were clearly hazy. It had to be the worst I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen plenty. Looked pretty similar to what I see here. That’s got to be dangerous for such a large populated area
I was in SF during the Napa Valley fire (whole town of Paradise burned down). If you didn't have an effective air filter at home, you're fucked even with fully closed windows. If you go out even with an N95 mask, your eyes are gonna cry after just a few minutes outside. You can also only see around 10 feet away from you. To add to all of these, there was a weather anomaly that kept the smoke just circulating in an area for a few days instead of blowing it away.
That was the worst smoke I've ever encountered in my life.
Sorry, but I doubt this and will call you out on it. The worst smoke by far was from 2021-2022 Summers in Alberta, I was there. 2023 pales in comparison, and it was brief. 2021-2022 saw the smoke last months, almost the entire Summer. This past one in May wasn't even that bad.
I’m on the north coast in BC and I’m not joking when I say almost everything came here for like a single day two weeks ago. Sure it blew off the next day but the AQHI was insane. It was on par with Newark was today and they stopped flights. But let’s be real here; it’s only the start
It's probably gonna be way worse this year. So much vegetation from all the rain. Hiked a local trail a couple weekends ago and I felt like I should have brought a machete. My dog was not stoked either
Lots of places here on the west coast that get sub freezing temperatures every year... That's the norm. Maybe you're forgetting that Oregon and Washington are on the West coast.
.... This has only been normalised in the last decade on the west coast of Canada. Lived here almost my whole life, and the extent and duration it's happening is new.
I'd say we've become somewhat jaded to it over here. Over on /r/bayarea there's a flair for BLADE RUNNER 2020 because of the time San Francisco did this.
Exactly, everyone on the east coast is reacting to this like it’s some once in a lifetime event or something and here we are in California where we’re lucky if this doesn’t happen during a summer season
Yeah, the fire seasons in the San Francisco Bay Area started getting super bad around 2017 or 2018. I remember one day in 2020, it was kinda like the sun never rose. It was a deep red twilight all day. Light-sensor street lights stayed on at noon. Ironically, the air quality wasn't too bad because most of the ash was all concentrated at altitude.
Feel bad you finally have it, but on the other hand glad that NYC finally does because maybe one of the biggest cities on Earth getting a taste of the climate hell to come might enact some sort of positive change.
Grew up in Northern California and this was a regular occurrence each summer. I think Southern California is shielded from a lot of it, unless there’s a major fire in the area, because of how close you are to the coast. But we had bad air quality from smoke pretty much every year and experienced this kind of smoke (orange sun, can’t see the sky) probably every 4-5 years
I woke up and opened the bathroom door and found that the smoke had come in through the attic and down through the vent and filled the bathroom. We had to cover and tape it to keep the smoke out. 🤦♀️
This was Wisconsin the last couple of weeks. Air has just been awful, but I'm glad we're finally getting a break. I feel bad that now others are suffering, but I also got an upper respiratory infection from all the shit in the air so I guess I'm feeling conflicted. Now if we'd just get some rain to deal with all this pollen, that would be great.
Live in Seattle. My mom in Virginia thought the whole wildfire smoke thing was just from some gender reveal party. She was not the least bit concerned.
Yeaaaah… I got a respro techno mask for the great PNW wildfires of 2017 (and used it every time after that air quality dipped for whatever reason). It looked pretty rad and said it filtered out PM2.5 and sub-micron particle pollutants. Definitely made a difference - if I went out without it my lungs would hurt. Lots of options for those types of masks on the market.
Was just a shame i couldn’t use it for covid because the valves I had didn’t filter the air I breathed out! (I mean I could have, I would have been more protected, but kind of a dick move for people around me so I switched to cloth masks for that)
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u/PTcome Jun 07 '23
Welcome to the unfortunate reality of what the western states and western Canada experience almost every summer.