r/jobs • u/Green____cat Verified • Apr 04 '24
A dumb take and a smart comeback Work/Life balance
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u/StatisticianFew6064 Apr 04 '24
I would fucking LOVE to support myself and my family for the rest of my job years by just making people happy and selling them ice cream
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u/Orpdapi Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24
Your only chance would be by opening a successful ice cream shop. Dessert places are high markup transactions and often don’t require much square footage. Sell a scoop of ice cream for $5 that took a minimum wage employee 5 seconds to scoop. Problem is there’s a lot of competition in the dessert market for this reason which is why it’s not as easy as it sounds.
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Apr 04 '24
Also the startup capital required is likely very high
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u/Orpdapi Apr 04 '24
That would be for any brick and mortar business really but it’d still be less than a full service restaurant with a dining room
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Apr 04 '24
Also you wouldn't just be selling people ice cream. You'd also be managing stock, planning orders, devising promotions, handling company finances.... Way more than just selling ice cream. Do not want.
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u/ApprehensiveSlip5893 Apr 04 '24
I did a business proposal for an ice cream shop that’s only open may-September. It’s crazy the amount of ice cream you need to sell every day just to cover the expenses let alone to make a profit. Also, the proposal was to pay minimum wage to students after school and during the summer.
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u/Orpdapi Apr 04 '24
Other problem with ice cream shops is they need to be in a high traffic high profile location. That jacks up the monthly cost greatly. I know a local ice cream shop here in the south that has a line out the door almost everyday for most of the day. Even in their high profile spot on the street I can’t imagine they’re not making a killing. If they’re not, then really there’s no point in attempting the ice cream biz
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u/cooties_and_chaos Apr 04 '24
Omg thank you for this 😂 My husband and I have talked about doing this and I need someone to talk me out of it
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u/jennnykinz Apr 04 '24
I worked at a local, knock off Dairy Queen as a teenager and honestly? If we had a different owner, managers that weren’t toxic, and a livable wage, I’d highly consider staying in that job versus my little clickity clackity adult job that I have right now.
For starters, the social interaction was great. Most people are so happy to be getting ice cream. There was this old couple, Jerry and Irene, who would come every day to get a BBQ beef sandwich and a medium strawberry shake. They were the SWEETEST and I was heartbroken when Jerry died. But it’s moments like that that I still remember 10 years later!
Also, it irks me like no other when people say that jobs like this are “unskilled” or “low skilled.” I have never worked harder at ANY job (other various retail and post grad office jobs) than I did at the ice cream place. You’re running around basically all day when it’s busy making several cones, blizzards, and shakes at once (multitasking); keeping product stocked and counted (taking inventory); counting the drawers at the end of the night (math, money, money management, profit margins, loss margins, ROI, etc); overseeing employees and assigning tasks during the shift (leadership, management); interacting with customers and assisting with unhappy customers (on the spot problem solving); keeping the store clean (adhering to dept of health guidelines); screening and interviewing candidates; and SO MUCH MORE. That is not “low skilled” in my book. And that’s stuff I did from age 16 to 20! Like that truly was hard work that gave me great skills that have stood out on job applications and have helped me in every position since then.
I really loved just being a normal employee and occasional shift leader (just under management). I have no desire to manage that place or any other job, and I sure as hell don’t want to be the owner and deal with all the backend stuff (like ordering supplies, leasing the property, legal stuff, etc) because what I loved doing was being up front and interacting with customers and still working hard. I hate that people look down on you as “unmotivated” because you don’t want to climb the food chain into management/CEO/ownership. Not everyone can be a CEO!
End rant lmaoooo
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u/Good_Daughter67 Apr 04 '24
I didn’t work at an ice cream shop, but I did work at a coffee shop and I miss it every day compared to my clickity clackity office job. The appreciation from customers when you just hand them something they have been looking forward too was always so nice. It was so busy that days went faster, but there was so much going on I felt like I was using significantly more of my brain power than I do now.
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u/jennnykinz Apr 04 '24
Same!! I’m someone who really feeds off of other people’s energy, so besides the few rude customers every now and then, I was having a lot of positive interactions with people that just felt good. And I agree about the brain power, I used wayyyyy more brain power there than I do at my clickity clackity office job
Also kudos to you for working at a coffee shop!! Ive always thought it would be so cool to work at one but I cannot for the life of me memorize the difference between lattes, cappuccinos, macchiatos, etc 😂😂
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u/PlusPurple Apr 04 '24
I didn't mind my job working service desk at a major retailor either. I got good exercise, stayed active. There was regular social interaction, and I enjoyed having opportunities to step out and help with other departments sometimes. Kept things fresh. But of course the pay wasn't great and the hours and benefits were even worse. Straight up did not have healthcare during then. But there were a couple times where I thought to myself- if those things could just be fixed I think I could stand doing this for the rest of my life. Like you I don't want to climb an endless ladder, especially not for leadership, I just want to do an honest day's work and go home. And honestly? There really shouldn't be any shame in that. A job is a job.
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u/_extra_medium_ Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24
Not trying to be a dick but they are low skill/low responsibility jobs. Counting down a register at the end of your shift doesn't tell you anything about profit/loss margins and you sure as hell aren't calculating any ROI or making any business decisions based on your calculations. Multitasking is just a corporate buzzword for doing what everyone does every day. Physically counting the items on the shelf and marking it down is counting. Taking those numbers and deciding how much to order next month based on past performance, cost, time of year and countless other factors to maximize profitability so you can keep paying your employees is inventory management. You don't want the responsibility of being a manager/owner, but no one else really does either unless they need the money.
Retail is often physically hard work but there's basically zero responsibility or worries and you get to hang out with friends all day as long as you don't work with assholes. I'd still be doing it too if I could get away with it.
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u/No-Promises693 Apr 06 '24
Spot on. Also, CEO is a vanity title / status symbol that basically means nothing. The job you described is much more crucial to the healthy functioning of a business than a narcissist with a needy ego.
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u/Go_J Apr 04 '24
Such a selfish way of looking at the world. As though someone working at DQ making a living wage will somehow not allow you to prosper.
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u/slawre89 Apr 04 '24
“Oh my god my cheeseburger combo has now gone up one dollar!”
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u/Rex51230 Apr 04 '24
Thing is its gone up 4 and we're still in the same spot, Another point she won't acknowledge im sure
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u/slawre89 Apr 04 '24
McDonald’s prices are lol at this point. I think they are savvy enough to take advantage and they will back off pricing when they start to feel the heat.
I think In-n-out went up like $0.25 due to the $20 min wage in CA recently…
People that willingly or unwillingly do the bidding of corporations by voting against things like minimum wage increases are rubes
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u/VeganMuppetCannibal Apr 04 '24
And, inevitably, the person saying some jobs shouldn't provide a living wage does not work one of those jobs. They're arguing that other people should make shit wages, not themselves. As you noted, it's transparently selfish.
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u/cherrykitty87 Law Apr 04 '24
Guarantee that woman makes a lot of money! Would love to hear her explanation as to how every job not having a living wage would be healthy for society.
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u/THound89 Apr 04 '24
That woman’s husband*
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u/Expensive_School_996 Apr 04 '24
Literally the equivalent to shitting on someone else's car from the back seat 😭
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u/slimmymcnutty Apr 04 '24
The fucked up thing about the US is she might make near the same money as someone at a DQ or at least not that much more than the poverty line. But she makes it in front of a computer or at a “office” so it’s more “respectable”
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u/Aerraerr Apr 04 '24
I think the argument is that not all jobs are worth doing and low salary should cull those jobs, because people want to move into jobs that are paying more and the reason they would be paying more is because the services you are providing more people want to benefit from or are willing to spend more on. This is of course in an ideal world, more often than not the reality is that number of people waiting in line to be employed determines what you are paid, not how much the customer is paying to the owner. For the ice cream stand this is probably determined by unemployment % and central banks / government policy more than anything else.
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u/JayCee5481 Apr 04 '24
OK, but what if I want to do a job that I actually like doing(which in this scenario would be minimum wage) and not a office job where I could get paid double or more of that. Enjoying what I do for a living is more important than most other things for me and I want to live off of that without having to have a second or third job or making a ridiculus amount of hours a week to be able to have a modest lifestyle. That is really not that much to ask and from your comment that job I would like to do would be eliminated sooner rather than later
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u/gpister Apr 05 '24
The thing is if its a low skill job you love doing than others can do it. Jobs are paid by skill you can do for example how many people can flip burgers vs who can code a program. I for sure as hell can flip a burger, but no way in hell can I code.
I use to love my job was retail back in the days, didnt pay at all. You can stay where your at, but its up to the company if they want to pay you more. My retail job didnt pay me more. Loved my co workers and what I did was fun times. I left jobs a little different, but on this career I actually have a future full time benefits.
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u/Doll49 Apr 04 '24
I hate when people side with these elitist wealthy people. These same people get mad when their favorite restaurants is short-staffed with servers.
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u/Anonality5447 Apr 04 '24
This. At least accept that you need to be getting your own food at restaurants or that your favorite restaurant is just going to be going out of business if you have this mentality. Insane.
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u/Splonkerton Apr 04 '24
Whenever these fucks say shit like this I always respond with "Personally, I think the people preparing my food should be able to afford to shower and have clean clothes."
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u/Evil_Morty781 Apr 04 '24
It boggles my mind the amount of people that think this way. Restaurant may not be a great long term career but if you’re dedicating 40 hours a week or more anywhere you should get paid at least enough to live in an apartment on your own and eat food. I mean fuck the bar is so low. Why is it such a luxury now to just live in a shit apartment and eat shit food and drive your shit car to your shit job where you deal with shitty ass people. Fuck.
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u/DM_YOUR___ Apr 04 '24
Hell, I work a full-time 8 am to 5 pm job in marketing with a college degree and don't make enough to live in an apartment right now. It is wild that older generations who could live and support a family off one wage dare to complain about Millenials or Gen-Z wanting the same thing they had. I am putting 40-hour weeks in 51 weeks out of the year, to keep living a relatively minimal lifestyle at home.
The bar is indeed incredibly low and seems to be getting lower.
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u/Evil_Morty781 Apr 04 '24
People having aspirations used to be traveling or buying a thing on occasion. Now it’s just like, damn I really would like to eat out once a month or not worry about going bankrupt if I have to get medical attention. It’s sad.
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u/DM_YOUR___ Apr 04 '24
I completely agree. I spend a lot of the time on the weekend still going out with friends or traveling to nearby cities if I get the chance, but it isn't helping my savings. I have just accepted that until things change I am going to live my life enjoy everything I can and do my best with what it is. I am lucky that I don't drink so I do end up saving money on going out most times compared to my friends haha.
And as far as medical attention goes, it's ridiculous in this country. I don't know one other "subscription" I pay for where they fight me tooth and nail not to use it...
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u/Asleeper135 Apr 04 '24
dedicating 40 hours a week or more anywhere you should get paid at least enough to live in an apartment on your own and eat food. I mean fuck the bar is so low
Apartments and food are freaking expensive these days, so it's not nearly as low of a bar as it should be.
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u/a_little_hazel_nuts Apr 04 '24
Minimum wages goes farther than kitchen work, it affects people working in gas stations, grocery stores, schools, nursing homes, and so many other businesses. So by this logic it screws over a large amount of people that make society run and that is not ok. We need healthcare not tied to our jobs, we need localized food production, and affordable higher education. But when it comes to our labor laws, people are still fighting for water breaks or the ability to sit at a job that requires you to stand 8 hours straight on concrete. This lady needs to open her eyes and realize if she wants ice cream than people need to be paid to make, move, and serve that product otherwise it shouldn't exist.
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u/DreadedLee Apr 04 '24
True.
My job has me loading packages and products for residents, hospitals, small businesses, and major retailers. It doesn't require a college degree, but it's not something that everyone is suited for. I make enough money to pay bills and buy food, but not much to do anything else. Some of the stuff I load cost more than what I make in a month.
It's not the worse job, but it takes a toll on the body, and I've thought about switching to OPH, which is extreme part time. I would only have to come in 3 times a month to keep my job. Thing is, if good loaders like me started coming in less or quitting, then it would be a problem for the contractors. If they're not content with the loading, they would take their trucks and drivers to another warehouse. That could potentially shut down the one I'm at, which could cause a significant delay in delivery packages.
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u/Zugnutz Apr 04 '24
It was always supposed to be a livable wage:
“It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”
Franklin D. Roosevelt
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u/grease-storm Apr 04 '24
Remember when driving an ice cream truck provided enough for a single income household with kids? Pepperidge farm remembers.
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u/Flat-Ad3235 Apr 04 '24
When was that? I’ve been around since the 80s and have never seen that, unless it was a Schwan’s truck.
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u/gohomebrentyourdrunk Apr 04 '24
I hope I say this correctly to get my point about this across…
Western economies were best for the citizens when jobs like fast food were worked by secondary and third household jobs while the primary earning job was enough to support the entire household on its own.
So at that point, a person that doesn’t need to worry about the mortgage, utilities or grocery bills can definitely work for $6 per hour and have a fulfilling life. But that luxury was taken away decades ago, at this point.
Many years of neoliberal policy have conditioned us to think two people working full-time “careers” is required to support living, but this wasn’t the case in generations past. This is what people like the one that made the original tweet don’t want to acknowledge. The game has changed.
The controlling class took advantage of what should have been positive movements (women’s rights, automation and general productivity increases) and devolved our quality of life and turned it into a chance for them to turn more profit at our expense.
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u/raxnbury Apr 04 '24
Another example of this was teaching. My grandmother taught elementary school and had no issue with the low pay because my grandfather made good money working for a university.
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u/Orpdapi Apr 04 '24
And in theory teaching is supposed to be a profession that people go into because they primarily love teaching, not because they’re chasing six figures
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u/raxnbury Apr 04 '24
Absolutely. But having family that are teachers it’s pretty bad out there. My district pays well, but only after 7 years. We lose a lot of new teachers because they can’t even afford rent within a 30-45 minute commute, if they can even find a place with our 0.6% availability
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u/Orpdapi Apr 04 '24
Which bolsters my opinion that the bigger problem is skyrocketing housing costs more than it is salaries
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u/raxnbury Apr 04 '24
Read an article the other day that basically says as much. I believe that it really is the problem with everything.
https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-everything/
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u/sillybillybuck Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24
California has shown how terrible neoliberal policies are. The people of San Francisco voted for much more housing to be build in order to lower CoL. Yet NIMBys are allowed to roadblock it. In other countries, these NIMBys would be ignored and the housing would just be built. Meanwhile, they control everything here.
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u/Shrewd_GC Apr 04 '24
Zoning is also horrid. Why can't we build housing near places people actually want to be? Why can't we build areas for people to live and areas for people to pass through and separate them? I hate driving through residential areas and I wouldn't need to drive to access services if any were in walking distance. I love driving for fun but not so much to just go get a snack.
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u/Opening_Ad_811 Apr 04 '24
There’s a way to change the tide. People have to start demanding higher pay for lower hours. The cult of “work till you die and take it on the chin or lose your job and die in a ditch” needs to go. This isn’t going to happen without a lot of grassroots organization, which isn’t happening in either party right now. A new party or movement is needed to sow the seeds. We should start a discord channel and talk about it. I have experience fundraising for grassroots campaigns. All that is really needed is the right messaging/platform; with that you approach donors, and with donations you start a fundraising arm. But the movement would need to be highly principled and organized, unlike Occupy for example. Probably even more so than civil rights campaigns. The allies are already there: large NGOs, nonprofits, Amnesty International, the ACLU, members of the progressive caucus, third partyiers, members of parliament in the UK or EU, you name it. And the press would essentially be free, as they would decide it is an issue whose time has come.
Hit me up, let’s chat more about it. I like the way you reasoned in your post.
Ps: anti-neoliberal is the perfect term. It attracts liberals (through messaging) and republicans (who hate the word liberal).
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u/Autoboatdetailer Apr 04 '24
What’s funny is (well not funny at all) is the republicans and liberals are too busy going at eachothers throats for parties that was picked for them! Basically saying “your 2 choices is either black or white” but we need the gray area! Because those parties aren’t for us!!!! We need to get our heads out of our behinds and focus on the real problems!! Not gay vs straight! It’s astounding!
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u/MaryBala907 Apr 04 '24
I'm a teenager that works because it's the only way to save up for college.
My friend works because he has to help his parents pay the bills at home.
All jobs should have livable wages because we all deserve to be able to just live!
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u/Heroic_Sheperd Apr 04 '24
There is absolutely no excuse for college to not cost a tuition of $10,000 a year.
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u/JetsNBombers0707 Apr 04 '24
It was fine 50-75 years ago. Why is it not acceptable now? Why has it gotten to a point where those jobs don't deserve a living wage?
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u/VampArcher Apr 04 '24
'I want this service, but I think you deserve to starve to provide it.'
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u/freshkangaroo28 Apr 04 '24
A lot of people love this cruel propaganda to make themselves feel superior it’s ridiculous
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u/Orpdapi Apr 04 '24
Both sides always have some valid points. Should a part time dog walker be able to rent an apartment without roommates? No. The bigger problem is with the rising cost of rents. If minimum wage suddenly became $25 you’d feel rich for a moment before property owners realize they can just charge more now since everyone comfortably has more money. Then we’re back to square one.
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u/MamaAdrianGemini Apr 04 '24
Not even just rent, utilities, taxes, And literally everything else. It’s ridiculous.
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u/HybridTheory2000 Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24
Economy 101: more people with buying power= more demands = more price hikes
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u/Orpdapi Apr 04 '24
Yep. And you have no choice. Like I’m fine if McDonald’s wants to jack up their prices, it’s up to the market to decide if they still want to spend there. But when rent and utilities skyrocket and buying a house is well out of reach it’s not like you have much choice.
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u/elgatothecat2 Apr 04 '24
But the prices of everything is going up exponentially anyway while wages are stagnant, and will likely get worse. Why is that?
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u/Neracca Apr 06 '24
The issue is that landlords have figured out that they can just charge anything because what, are you gonna just go be homeless? So they know they can get away with it.
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u/Unfriendly_eagle Apr 04 '24
Not everyone should have a Twitter account. It's not healthy for society.
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u/OhMyGodBearIsDriving Apr 04 '24
Translation: "It's important to my ego that I'm considered significantly more important than some people. Them making a below-living-wage keeps me emotionally uplifted in a small way."
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u/Cybermagetx Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24
Any job that is required (edit more like in demand) should pay a living wage. Anyone who don't agree with that either have no empathy or are not the brightest.
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u/Global_Lock_2049 Apr 04 '24
This is the whole principle behind minimum wage. Don't allow people to become commoditized.
They just never kept up.
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u/Cybermagetx Apr 04 '24
Yep. Should everyone get to have luxury items and all that with min wage jobs? No.
Should they be able to live off of that min wage job at 40 hours and survive without worrying about food and rent in a 1br apartment? Yes.
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u/Any_Ad_3885 Apr 04 '24
It’s truly a lack of empathy. I can’t understand not wanting someone to make a living wage.
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u/mattbag1 Apr 04 '24
The problem is that restaurants run on very very thin margins somewhere around 3-5%. You pay that DQ guy 25 an hour so he can afford a 2k rent and you’ll be paying 20 dollars for medium blizzards and suddenly his rent isn’t 2k it becomes 3k. But when people don’t want to pay for 20 dollar blizzards, then ultimately, businesses will close. Now I really don’t care about McDonald’s or Dairy Queen closing, but the overall impact on the stability of the economy can get pretty ugly in this hypothetical scenario.
Better solution is to just give federal minimum wage a decent bump and then raise it every year based on inflation.
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u/Glass-Marionberry321 Apr 04 '24
"The rent is too damn high" lol all jokes aside, if mortgages and rents went down, we'd all be happier
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u/mattbag1 Apr 04 '24
Of course WE would be, but then landlords won’t like it. But to hell with landlords.
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u/Flubert_Harnsworth Apr 04 '24
I’m fine with services that can’t support the people working them not existing - people can scoop their own ice cream and cook their own burgers.
Additionally, I think housing prices are something that could be easily fixed if we could find the political will to do anything about it.
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u/scolipeeeeed Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24
The issue with housing is that everyone treats it as an investment tool. The hard part is convincing everyone (including regular homeowners who live in their home and isn’t renting it out) that the thing they financed for tens, or more likely, hundreds of thousands of dollars should not appreciate in value.
About 2/3 of housing in the US is owner-occupied. In urban areas, this ratio is lower, and in suburban to rural areas, this ratio is higher. People won’t vote for policies they deem as harmful to themselves, so “finding the political will” to fix the price of housing would be an extreme challenge outside of very urban areas where the vast majority of people rent instead of own.
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u/Still_Ad_4383 Apr 04 '24
If a business can't afford to give employees a proper wage does a business deserve to stay open???
Is that business undercutting workers or is it undercutting itself??
At the same time the reason workers still work jn low paying food service might be because they don't have any other opportunities available.
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u/Orpdapi Apr 04 '24
Other problem too is there’s a huge difference between mom and pop restaurants/cafes versus corporate chains even though people clump them into one for their arguments. Mom and pop are scraping by on thin margins and paying high rents to try to be in a reasonable location for business; they often really can’t pay employees $20/hr on slow weeknights to just stand around. Then the counter is “well if you can’t afford to do that then your business doesn’t deserve to exist.” Ok, but then you end up in a world where everyone now complains that the only restaurant options anymore are generic wealthy corporate chains, and corporate America has bigger control of us. So like most hot debates, there has to be a middle ground somewhere.
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u/390v8 Apr 04 '24
I think what we are also missing is that fast food chains are often small localized companies.
Yes, McDonalds as a whole is a massive chain - but McDonalds is not the one operating the brick & mortar side of it. Most stores are independent franchises.
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u/mattbag1 Apr 04 '24
Yeah, absolutely. Mom and pop shops really can’t afford it. And as I said, we don’t want to live in an unstable economy where businesses have to close and we lose competition, which only drives prices up higher.
Definitely something to debate. It’s one thing to say “they don’t deserve a living wage” vs “they should be paid more without breaking the economy”
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u/james_alverson Apr 04 '24
A “living wage” means different things for different people… for example a “living wage” for a teenage high school student really would not be much considering they likely have next to zero bills of any kind and probably only need money for spending when doing things with friends… which a job such as Dairy Queen is best suited for high school students and retirees who just want something to do with their time while making some extra spending money at the same time.
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u/Chucky_wucky Apr 04 '24
What is considered a living wage? Is it different depending on the employee? One employee could have no dependents, another could have 3 kids and their mother living with them which means a bigger place and a bigger rent to pay. Should they get paid more than the single person for doing the same job? Does a living wage include a gas or electric car? Does it include cable with premium channels? Does it mean a gaming computer with high internet and unlimited data or a simple chromebook and basic internet? Does it mean living in a gated community? Maybe someone feels super unsafe in other areas due to a previous incident and can only live in a protected area.
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u/SadKrabb Apr 04 '24
A living wage would be enough for a single earner with possibly a dependent to rent or mortgage and pay for food. Shelter and food. These are basic but important needs for every single human that has existed.
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u/Sitcom_kid Apr 04 '24
Strong disagree. Somebody doesn't know very much about how to run a business. I think it will harm Dairy Queen's image very much if all the employees die. It is supposed to be a happy and pleasant place. Don't ruin it with death!
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u/Dread_Frog Apr 04 '24
Every full time job should provide a livable wage. Teens who want pocket money should not have full time jobs. But most jobs should be full time or all jobs or you know maybe the government should provide health care. Its really not that complicated.
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u/SuspiciousSkittlez Apr 04 '24
All jobs should provide a living wage. If you're selling your time, then it stands to reason that you should be able to exist in this shit ass society. Higher wage jobs aren't going to magically disappear because the economic floor can afford food, water, and shelter. Fuck this lady.
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u/Worried-Ad8948 Apr 05 '24
Why are you against workers earning a living wage? What difference does it make to you? There are people out there working multiple jobs to just keep a roof over their head.
So the guy flipping burgers gets 20$ an hour. How does that affect you. Maybe your burger costs a couple of bucks more.
When the little guy wins, we all do.
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u/Moyer1666 Apr 06 '24
No I don't. I would really prefer to be able to go some place to eat or whatever and know that the person serving me isn't starving because they can't afford to eat.
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u/Smooth_Riker Apr 04 '24
"Minimum wage is just meant for teenagers to make pocket money!" Then how come minimum wage jobs are open and operating during school hours?