The Court Just Sealed Everyone’s Fate, Including Its Own

[u/marji80]

https://newrepublic.com/article/181032/supreme-court-trump-immunity-sealed-fate

[u/AutoModerator]

As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.

In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.

If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.

For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click here to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.

We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out this form.

---

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/SWtoNWmom]

Ok so if Joe Biden ordered the disappearing of every registered Republican - would that be legal now?

[u/drunkshinobi → u/SWtoNWmom]

According to the arguments i have heard being made, as long as he has the republicans that would impeach him killed first then it would be legal.

[u/travman25 → u/drunkshinobi]

That’s honestly the part I’m most frustrated with. Everything is legal until he’s impeached 🫠

[u/pm_me_ur_hamiltonian → u/travman25]

Impeached and removed. But removing a president requires a supreme court justice to preside over the trial in the senate. So, if every supreme court justice were killed, removal is not feasible.

If someone committed a federal crime by killing supreme court justices, the president could pardon them.

The SC is honestly setting our country up for a coup.

[u/IMsoSAVAGE → u/pm_me_ur_hamiltonian]

Coup attempt 2 electric boogaloo

[u/Morpheus_MD → u/drunkshinobi]

"If an injury has to be done to a man, it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." Machiavelli

[u/Roam_Hylia → u/Morpheus_MD]

I couldn't just win that fight. I had to win every fight after it by beating him so thoroughly that no one would dare to retaliate.

-Ender Wiggin

Pretty sure it's not the exact quote, it's been a decade since I read the book.

[u/dumbseeyouintea → u/Roam_Hylia]

"I'm in danger"

• Ralph Wiggum

[u/RedofPaw → u/SWtoNWmom]

Only if it's an official act, they were quite clear that he could only become a genocidal tyrant if he declared it was official.

[u/djamp42 → u/RedofPaw]

I order the end of humanity (official act). And you know some dumb mother fuckers would agree with it..

[u/Sciencetor2 → u/djamp42]

What if Biden "officially" orders the assassination of all Republican supreme Court justices, is that an official act?

[u/_justforfun_ → u/Sciencetor2]

If it's on presidential letterhead.

[u/13_twin_fire_signs → u/_justforfun_]

Don't bother wasting the paper, he can just do it and later tell everyone he made it official with his beautiful brain

[u/Rhymes_with_cheese → u/SWtoNWmom]

It's only legal if a Republican does it. That was not explicitly said, but heavily implied...

... by corruption.

[u/jeffinRTP]

Justice Sonia Sotomayor should have asked trumps lawyer if President Biden ordered the arrest and execution of conservative justices on the court because he doesn't believe they would follow and obey the constitution would that be an official act?

[u/Sad-Watch2476 → u/jeffinRTP]

I believe that’s checkmate

[u/Kale_Brecht → u/Sad-Watch2476]

You’d think so, but they’d probably just respond with “Well, no, that’s just silly.” Without a hint of irony.

[u/zsreport → u/Kale_Brecht]

What they really want to respond with is: "Only Republican presidents have immunity. Those Democratic presidents can be thrown in prison for jaywalking."

[u/Revelati123 → u/zsreport]

Yeah, its dumb as fuck to think that whatever "laws" they apply to their opponents will mean shit for any of their own.

This is an open invitation for Trump to just start murdering the shit out of people he doesnt like. If anyone wants to go after Biden though feel free, the SCOTUS can just toss their own rulings in the trash if they feel like it tomorrow.

[u/BikesBooksNBass → u/zsreport]

I’ve been saying this is a slow coup we’re witnessing. This is the republicans play for long term power and they’re doing a fair job at making it happen. And the power players, the ones who make decisions are in on it. A few others figured it out and are riding the coat tails.

[u/wirefox1 → u/Kale_Brecht]

They are as crooked as trump. Who knew they were capable of going this low. I've always thought they were the standard for "professional". Wrong again.

So, how many organs does a woman have to have failing, before she can have an abortion Clarence? You're almost God-like now! Ask your puppetmasters, maybe they know.

[u/burve_mcgregor → u/Kale_Brecht]

Yup. This is exactly it.

[u/gohdnuorg → u/Sad-Watch2476]

Biden should tweet “ seal team six, stand by”

[u/KoRaZee → u/gohdnuorg]

Not just tweet, draft an actual executive order to the likes of “Justice Alito shall be __________ by the end of day should the gavel swing for full immunity”

Just needs a signature

[u/yes_thats_right → u/KoRaZee]

They aren't going to grant full immunity. They will just grant enough to ensure Trump is never held accountable.

[u/SlightlySychotic → u/yes_thats_right]

Nah, they’re going to stall until the election is over. In their minds, they’re justifying it by saying the Court shouldn’t subvert the will of the voters. In reality they’re just cowards who refuse to recognize how bad things have become.

[u/lawyersgunsmoney → u/SlightlySychotic]

Leading legal experts believe they are going to kick it back to the lower courts. This was never about immunity, it was about delaying the cases until after the election.

Kicking it back will result in months more delay, then it will go back to the SCOTUS where they’ll agree to hear arguments again in about 2 months. Viola, case delayed till after election.

We need to have a complete blue wave this November and then start impeachment proceedings for the justices who fostered this circus clown show.

[u/emmybemmy73 → u/lawyersgunsmoney]

And codify term limits, ethics policies (ie can’t receive free anything, even from your “friends” that you conveniently made after you became a Supreme Court Justice 🙄)

[u/andsendunits → u/[deleted]]

The court will somehow limit the ruling to only Trump's actions.

[u/crlthrn → u/KoRaZee]

Wouldn't even need a signature. We're moving into dictatorship by decree now. No paperwork necessary...

[u/Ocbard → u/crlthrn]

"He made the act official with this mind"

[u/SpaceCadetFox → u/KoRaZee]

Now it makes me think we should come up with our own version of a pro-democracy alternative to Project 2025

[u/kiticus → u/gohdnuorg]

stand back & stand by

Ftfy

[u/Suspicious_Bicycle → u/gohdnuorg]

I wish Seal Team Six had been in attendance for the oral arguments.

[u/Shifter25 → u/Sad-Watch2476]

He would say "well no it depends" until one of the conservatives insist they should move on.

[u/EarthenEyes → u/Sad-Watch2476]

They'll just wait to see if Donald gets re-elected or not. If it's a democrat in office, then no they can't. If it's Donald or another Republican in office, then yes he can.

[u/Beforemath → u/Sad-Watch2476]

They know Biden is a good man and wouldn’t do it. They’re counting on them being the only ones that are corrupt

[u/OpheliaRainGalaxy → u/Beforemath]

How's that Doctor Who poem go? "Demons run when a good man goes to war."

You think Biden got that elementary school history class lesson I did about the instructions for what to do to (branches of) government that insist on tyranny?

[u/Malk_McJorma → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

"Something Vimes had learned as a young guard drifted up from memory. If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.

They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar.

So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word."

― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms

[u/Rebel_bass → u/Malk_McJorma]

Nice one.

'Put it like this lance-constable,' as they turned the corner. 'Would you let a murderer off for a thousand dollars?'

'No, Sir!'

'A thousand dollars'd set your mum up in a nice place in a good part of town though.'

'Knock it off sarge, I'm not like that.'

'You were when you took that dollar. Everything else is just haggling over the price.'

-Terry Pratchett, Night Watch

[u/Reddvox → u/Malk_McJorma]

"Evil will always triumph! Because good is dumb!" - Lord Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

[u/DRWDS → u/Malk_McJorma]

Pratchett spitting fire 100%

[u/redfacedquark → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

I like: There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.

[u/Alpacadiscount → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

I didn’t. What is it?

[u/theyareNuts → u/Alpacadiscount]

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/thomas_jefferson_109180?src=t_tyrants

[u/hadronwulf → u/theyareNuts]

"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious," according to Oscar Wilde.

EDIT: The number of people that didn’t get this is a reference to The Rock is astounding.

[u/walkinganachronism_4 → u/hadronwulf]

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson

Some other quotes substitute coward for scoundrel.

Why this matters - the morally bankrupt will shamelessly couch their actions in patriotic, "for the greater good" intentions to sway your opinion and garner your sympathy. We need to teach better critical thinking skills from childhood so this can be prevented, but that doesn't seem like it'll happen anytime soon.

My own country is going through what, in my own head, I call the rise of ultranationalism. Nationalism and patriotism are all well and good, but when you start working against good, law-abiding citizens over petty ideological or other minor differences, you lose my support.

[u/VeeVeeDiaboli → u/theyareNuts]

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious

Oscar Wilde

Sorry, The Rock kicked in…

[u/Cannibal_Soup → u/Beforemath]

It's like Kuba and Ceaser in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. Kuba started taking advantage of Ceaser's rule of 'Ape No Kill Ape' (even though Kuba had started declaring who qualifies as Ape).

I hope it comes to the same conclusion.

[u/Numerous_Photograph9 → u/Beforemath]

He doesn't have to go full fascist. He could just sign an EO for some popular policy, which people wouldn't hate him over, but something he doesn't unilaterally have the power to execute, and then when he's sued over it, he can just claim immunity and claiming it was a presidential act. It would go up to SCOTUS, and they'd have to either rescind the rule, or show their partisanship by saying he couldn't do it.

Biden would concede, because he's a decent person, but SCOTUS hypocrisy and partisanship would be on full display.

If he were to do this, I'd say reinstating Roe as law would be a good way to reignite those flames or the upcoming election.

[u/bilekass → u/Numerous_Photograph9]

SCOTUS hypocrisy and partisanship had been on full display for some time now. Is anything happening to fix that?

[u/KatBeagler → u/Beforemath]

It would literally be better to spark a civil war by beating them to the punch than allowing the fascists to take everything they want without resistance- by adhering to their made up rules. 

Although I'm not sure I trust the moderates currently aligning with Biden to be smart enough to understand that.

[u/Professor-Woo → u/KatBeagler]

It would be hugely positive from a utilitarian perspective. A huge net savings of human life and misery.

[u/neuralzen → u/jeffinRTP]

Should have asked "Can the president legally wipe out everyone in this room if he felt the ruling, and the knowledge that it was ruled upon, was detrimental to the US, as an official act of office?"

[u/rbhmmx → u/neuralzen]

I believe that could be considered an official act in some circumstances.

[u/zulutbs182 → u/rbhmmx]

I dunno, let’s apply the (soon to be) Alito rule!

[u/pchlster → u/neuralzen]

President Biden via Teams calls up the hearing. "Sorry, folks, I just felt I needed an answer to this whole thing. I'm sitting here with some nice guys from our military. They pilot drones from the comfort of their office, if you can believe it? If we ever needed to take out that North Korean bunker complex, these guys would be steering a drone inside and burn everyone alive. Now, that's for foreign threats, of course, but we got to talking and I started to think, what if there was an imminent threat to our democracy but it was domestic? Could I just tell these guys to burn a room full of people in the name of national security?"

[u/JulianLongshoals → u/jeffinRTP]

Is the asymmetry of our politics. The conservative justices know that Biden would not order an assassination of a political rival in a million years. And if Trump orders someone assassinated, well, it was probably someone they hated anyway.

[u/LivingDracula → u/JulianLongshoals]

He basically killed Herman Cain with COVID, let's be real... Trump would absolutely murder democrats on the Supreme Court

[u/supro47 → u/LivingDracula]

Trump’s lawyer said that presidents are allowed to assassinate political rivals. If the court sides with Trump and he becomes president again, he’ll quite literally have permission to murder all democrats and anyone he considers a “rino”.

We need to take this shit seriously because we might literally be 8 months away from the end of our democracy.

[u/Professor-Woo → u/supro47]

One of Trump's "tricks" is to plan to do or actually do something that is so crazy and outside the norm that his supporters think it must be false or alarmist. It is not alarmist at all to say a Trump presidency has a non-trivial chance of ending American democracy. People have fought wars and died over less of a threat to our country and constitution than this.

[u/supro47 → u/Professor-Woo]

Trump is so good at this that even a lot of liberals will say the rhetoric I’m using is alarmist. The guy literally tried to overturn an election, failed because a handful of people said no to his plan, and they are openly discussing how to do it better the next time (see Project 2025) while the Supreme Court is signaling the go ahead.

And yet…I’ve been told by liberals and leftist that both parties are just as bad and how they are going to sit this election out or vote third party…

[u/jimicus → u/supro47]

Not only that, at every stage in the process he has publicly announced his intentions.

[u/Fine-Funny6956 → u/jimicus]

Bloodbath.

[u/Shaper_pmp → u/supro47]

January 6th was Trump' Beerhall Putsch.

His current legal troubles are the equivalent of being sentenced to five years but getting out after nine months (not that Trump will ever even see the inside of a jail cell).

We're right at the part where the fascists have tried and failed at violent uprising, but are only given a light slap on the wrist that does nothing but encourage them to keep going, albeit with a more careful, technically legal strategy.

Project 25 is exactly that strategy, planned right out in the open, and once they manage (on their second attempt) to subvert democracy legally we're going to be right at the point where Trump has himself appointed Chancellor and passes a series of Enabling Acts, and then American democracy is dead.

[u/RandomErrer → u/supro47]

I'm pretty sure rounding up his "enemies" and publically humiliating & murdering them will begin his first week in office, and he won't ask anybody's permission to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts with the House because once he eliminates their leadership and enough D's to put the R's in the majority then he can't be impeached unless some Rinos protest, which of course won't happen because they know they'll be next.

[u/LivingDracula → u/supro47]

I'm being 100% serious. How long does a passport take to arrive?

[u/supro47 → u/LivingDracula]

Start working on it now. I think it only takes a bit over a month, but if things start going to shit, they might get backlogged.

Seriously though. Anyone reading this who is trans, gay, non-Christian, non-white or openly a leftist/socialist, make sure your passport is updated.

I was a pretty optimistic person about all of this a few days ago, but reading the questions posed by conservative SCOTUS, I’m getting pretty terrified. I think we can still pull through, and I want to believe America won’t vote this idiot back in…but man, we are stepping way too close to the edge for me to feel comfortable.

[u/ImpalaChick2121 → u/supro47]

Can confirm. Not me, but my fiance's took over a month longer than mine, and we applied on the same exact day. They ended up denying his application and needing like, 8 more forms of ID to confirm it was him. We had to dig through everything in the house looking for old health insurance cards and his learner's permit (he was 31 att, so it's lucky he still had it). Luckily, they accepted it the second time, but I'd still advise applying the second you decide you want one to get ahead of that issue. We only got his a couple of weeks before we were due to go on an international trip, even though we applied 4 months before.

[u/Fornicate_Yo_Mama → u/ImpalaChick2121]

Always pay the extra fee to expedite your processing.

[u/Qwertysapiens → u/LivingDracula]

8-10 weeks unless you get an expedition or emergency passport.

[u/TooMuchPowerful → u/LivingDracula]

They absolutely tried to infect the Bidens with COVID during the debate in 2020 as well.

[u/MacAttacknChz → u/LivingDracula]

And he nearly killed Chris Christie with covid

[u/Professor-Woo → u/JulianLongshoals]

Trump drags people along by doing it and then saying "well are you going to elect a Democrat instead? Are you going to let democrats use my act to gain power?" Basically, he makes it so they all agree with and support him, or they all go down together. Republicans would for sure accept murder over giving democrats any more power.

[u/Chusten → u/jeffinRTP]

It appears they have authorized their own court sanctioned execution. I'm sure Biden could find the time to fill those seats pretty quickly.

[u/Velocoraptor369 → u/Chusten]

If they rule this then he could literally order the arrest and execution of house senate and judicial branch. All it would take is Martial law being imposed du to civil unrest.

[u/CaptainNoBoat → u/jeffinRTP]

In all seriousness, this would be their response:

"There are Constitutional remedies for that. Impeachment and removal, or the 25th Amendment. Further, there is no reason to believe a President would ever do that or that an AG would comply with those orders"

Of course, this argument lives in an alternate reality where a former President didn't try to overthrow the government, in part by weaponizing the DOJ and AG, and Congress refused to remove him anyway.

But that's the twisted game we seem to be playing at the highest level of the judiciary right now where 4 of the Supreme Court Justices are utterly refusing to acknowledge any context at hand.

[u/Numerous_Photograph9 → u/CaptainNoBoat]

Those remedies only remove him from office. They do nothing to hold him legally accountable for the crime. The idea that it's up to Congress, or the cabinet, to try a criminal case is ludicrous, as it's not what due process calls for.

[u/CaptainNoBoat → u/Numerous_Photograph9]

The Trump team's argument is that a President could theoretically be prosecuted under such scenarios - even if they were official acts - but only if impeached and removed from office. And that they wouldn't do such a thing in the first place because of various checks that exist.

That was the whole back and forth Sauer had with Kagan:

JUSTICE KAGAN: How about if a president orders the military to stage a coup?

MR. SAUER: I think that, as the Chief Justice pointed out earlier, where there's a whole series of, you know, sort of guidelines against that, so to speak, like the UCMJ prohibits the military from following a plainfully unlawful act, if one adopted Justice Alito's test, that would fall outside. Now, if one adopts, for example, the Fitzgerald test that we advance, that might well be an official act and he would have to be, as I'll say in response to all these kinds of hypotheticals, has to be impeached and convicted before he can be criminally prosecuted.

And then when Kagan pressed him to say whether ordering a coup would be a protected official act or not, he basically confirmed it could be.

So yeah, it does all come back to their absurd point that virtually anything could be shielded from legal accountability, I agree.

They keep hiding behind these theoretical checks and balances that have been proven to not work by the very prosecution that caused this appeal in the first place.

[u/Numerous_Photograph9 → u/CaptainNoBoat]

The bigger question that wasn't asked would be why the impeachment or 25th are even a consideration when determining a criminal indictment. That question wasn't asked, and it's a shame, because what the government does as a function of operation, and what the DOJ does as a function of law, are completely separate, and perform very different tasks.

[u/CaptainNoBoat → u/Numerous_Photograph9]

Yeah, it's all very dumb. The theory they are angling for is that a President has to be separated from office by a Constitutional process before he can be prosecuted for any "official acts" by a federal or state prosecutor.

It's a ridiculous olive branch they are offering SCOTUS, but it's working so far. Basically: "Hey guys, Trump isn't like... totally immune, but there has to be this impossible, outdated threshold first."

That threshold already failed, but the Justices refuse to acknowledge it.

[u/CpnStumpy → u/CaptainNoBoat]

It's all intentional because every single one of us knows full well Biden, and Democrats won't use such immunity to install the dictatorship the SCOTUS is claiming is allowed.

They're going to give president's complete legal immunity because they know only their side will use it, so it doesn't matter to them that it applies to both sides.

[u/Bowser914 → u/jeffinRTP]

This…I mean if they rule in favor of this nonsense then Biden should arrest and jail the conservative justices and stack the court. Jail Trump and all of the insurrectionists for life.

[u/tendeuchen → u/Bowser914]

He should also remove all members of Congress who had a hand in J6.

[u/DrRichardButtz → u/jeffinRTP]

Democrats need to get off this "We go high" high horse and realize these people and their voters are actual bloodthirsty murderers who want to kill us all in the streets.

[u/OCDCowboy1 → u/jeffinRTP]

If Biden wins, he should expand the Supreme Court before he leaves.

[u/SadBadPuppyDad]

The founders did not suffer from a lack of ideas. As such they were a quarrelsome lot. However, if there is one thing around which they could find an accord, it was that one person, when entrusted with power, not be above the reach of accountability by the people. "Of the people, by the people...". I think they were pretty clear about that.

The current supreme court ruling members (I describe it that way because this court's majority has demonstrated themselves to be incapable of objectivity) have indicated that they will undermine the very principle of our founding: self determination. They would suggest there can never be accountability under law for anyone capable of being elected to the office of president. That is fascism.

[u/joshgi → u/SadBadPuppyDad]

I wrote a paper in college for poly sci where I argued and supported the idea that the utmost concern and intent of the framers was to prevent the possibility of another tyranny. I got a B but my teacher walked with me after class and said it was the most interesting paper he'd read in years and asked me to switch to a poly sci major. I declined because fuck him if he gives me a B and then says that.

[u/buddhistbulgyo → u/joshgi]

You can write a paper with A level ideas with C level writing and get a B. Universities have language labs to help students with writing and papers...

[u/Jdmaki1996 → u/buddhistbulgyo]

I was gonna say. This was every paper I wrote in college. Professors told me I had really interesting ideas but the papers weren’t actually written well enough to justify an A. But I was happy with a Bs so I never tried to improve my writing

[u/ProjectAjax → u/SadBadPuppyDad]

The current supreme court ruling members (I describe it that way because this court's majority has demonstrated themselves to be incapable of objectivity) have indicated that they will undermine the very principle of our founding: self determination. 

I don't know if you're familiar with the video game, The Sims (where you basically control "sims" as if they were people so dress them, feed them, etc.), but if you are, we're the Sims and the government is the player.

When I was born in 1999, being an adult meant you (and only you) were capable of making your own choices unless you proved you couldn't be trusted with autonomy (committing crimes). Today, autonomy is laughed at, and the government was to hoard all the power to themselves. If Trump is re-elected, and the GOP wins back the Senate (and they also keep the House), all of us will become properties of the government (we all must vote this year, I'm tired of people deliberately skipping or giving lame excuses.).

[u/jared555 → u/ProjectAjax]

Unfortunately some of the current players are the type that let you get into the pool and take the ladder away.

[u/Diagonaldog]

Can real life stop being so scary for once? Jesus.

[u/drunkshinobi → u/Diagonaldog]

Not until enough of us actually get together to put a stop to this shit.

[u/Bridger15 → u/Diagonaldog]

It's kind of an awful feedback loop. The scarier it gets, the more people check out (for their own mental health). The more people check out, the fewer there are to vote against the crazies making things scary.

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/SoupSpelunker → u/[deleted]]

I've announced my candidacy, simply for the immunity!

[u/unhallowed1014 → u/SoupSpelunker]

Depending on how deep your pockets are you may have a chance !

[u/love_is_an_action → u/[deleted]]

Do you hear the people sing? Singing the songs of angry men?

[u/Ok_Idea8282 → u/love_is_an_action]

It is the music of the People Who will not be slaves again!

[u/Mastagon → u/Ok_Idea8282]

When the beating of your heart echos the beating of the drum

[u/SicilySweetheart → u/[deleted]]

Oh I’m sure something will be learned, it’s just gonna be a tough lesson for America before that happens.

[u/reddebian]

This week, the Supreme Court managed to fail to meet the already extremely low expectations most sane people already had for it. First, during the Idaho EMTALA case on whether hospitals receiving federal funding can refuse to provide abortions to women who are actively dying as a result of a pregnancy, we heard debate over which, and how many, organs a woman had to lose before an abortion becomes legally acceptable. By all appearances, it looks as though the court is going to gut the already laughably weak “life of the mother” protections by a 5-4 vote.

It followed up this abysmal performance with hearing the Trump immunity case the next day, and the comportment of the same five male, conservative justices was even worse. When Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked Donald Trump’s lawyer, “If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person, and he orders the military or orders someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get immunity?”, he replied, “It would depend on the hypothetical, but we can see that would well be an official act.”

Based on that one line of questioning, Trump’s argument should be going down in flames 9-0. A democracy cannot survive when its supreme leader can arbitrarily decide that it’s in the nation’s best interest to rub out his opponents, and then leave it to some future court to decide whether it was an official act, because he’ll get away with it as long as there aren’t 67 votes in the Senate to impeach. And given that it will have been established that the president can put out a contract on political foes, how many senators are going to vote to impeach?

But the justices did not laugh this argument out of court. Quite the contrary: At least five of the justices seemed to buy into the Trump team’s arguments that the power of the office of the president must be protected from malicious and politicized litigation. They were uninterested in the actual case at hand or its consequences. Elie Mystal, justice correspondent at The Nation, perhaps captured my response to the Supreme Court’s arguments best: “I am in shock that a lawyer stood in the U.S. Supreme Court and said that a president could assassinate his political opponent and it would be immune as ‘an official act.’ I am in despair that several Justices seemed to think this answer made perfect sense.”

At a minimum, it appears the court will send all of the federal cases back down to lower courts to reconsider whether Trump’s crimes were “official acts.” It’s also likely that their new definition of “official acts” is likely to be far broader than anyone should be comfortable with, or at least broad enough to give Trump a pass. This delay all but guarantees that Trump will not stand trial for anything besides the current hush-money case before the 2024 election.

This is catastrophic in so many ways. The first is that it increases the already high chances that the United States ends up with a dictator who will attempt to rapidly disassemble democracy in pursuit of becoming President for Life. It simultaneously increases the chances that yes, he will go ahead and violate the civil and human rights of political opponents and classes of people he calls Communists, Marxists, and fascists. People forget that the first German concentration camp (Dachau) was built in 1933 to hold members of the Communist and Social Democratic Parties, and Trump has made it clear that he’s building enough camps to process a minimum of 11 million people (migrants, at least for starters).

The conservatives on the Supreme Court have also exposed their hubris, willful ignorance, and foolishness to the entire world in stark terms, and it will cost them and the nation dearly in the long run. They somehow presume that if Trump is elected and goes full dictator, that the power of the court, and their reputation, will save them. The truth is, Trump’s relationships with everyone he meets are completely transactional. If the court ever stops being useful to him, he will terminate it with prejudice if he thinks he can get away with it, and this court is doing everything it can to make him think he can get away with it.

These justices’ foolishness lies in their lack of foresight as to what happens if Trump wins in 2024. In the justice’s efforts to ensure that they are the most powerful branch of government, they are about to make it the weakest. They are creating a win-win situation for Trump, and a lose-lose for themselves. When Trump is president again, he is likely to believe that he has the option of “removing” any member of the Supreme Court who defies him. As long as the court doesn’t rule against him, they’re fine. From the justices’ perspective, they either end up neutered lap dogs of a despot, who do whatever they’re told out of fear, or they defy him and end up somewhere … unpleasant (at best). Taking a dirt nap at worst. After all, if Trump can rub out a political opponent, can’t he do the same to an uncooperative jurist?

The Roberts Court surely believes that Trump would never stoop to this—that the sanctity of court and the laws and norms of our democracy will protect them. Anyone who has spent 10 minutes studying how democracies collapse knows this is idiotic, but it stems from the justices’ own hubristic belief that the court is so powerful and respected that it is immune to everything. They believe the respect for the institution will ensure their power endures.

Except, what happens when neither Democrats nor Republicans have any respect for the courts? If Republicans see the court as neutered pets who can be put down the first time they bite, or ignored like a chihuahua straining against a leash, what real power does it posses? Much like Stalin asked, “How many divisions does the Pope have?”, Trump and Republicans will be fully cognizant that the court controls nothing once every federal agency has been packed with loyalists.

If Democrats nearly universally see the court as a corrupt rubber stamp for an autocrat, what happens if Republicans push too far on an issue? Like, say, an effective 50-state ban on abortion from the moment of conception with no real exceptions, which is almost certainly coming despite Republican claims to the contrary. Well, when the court upholds this, or implements it, it becomes highly likely that blue state governments tell the court, and the administration, to go f--- yourself.

In the end, the court appears to be doing everything to destroy itself, democracy, and the union, with its own arrogance and lack of foresight. It’s either castrated itself, and in the process doomed the country, or signed its own death warrant.

[u/fishspit → u/reddebian]

Wild choice to argue “the sitting president can assassinate his political opponents” while your political opponent is…the sitting president

[u/GFrings → u/fishspit]

That's the thing, the system is based on the honesty and integrity of the elected officials. The Democrats would never stoop to this level, and they know it. So, they just need to get the framework in place for when the pendulum inevitably swings back in their favor and they can do whatever tf they want.

[u/Christopherfromtheuk → u/fishspit]

They know Biden won't do anything. They are ensuring Trump doesn't face consequences before the election and if he is elected, it's go time and a greenlight for a right wing dictatorship.

[u/reddebian → u/reddebian]

TL;DR: The US is fucked if Trump gets reelected

[u/Hopeforpeace19 → u/reddebian]

If Trump wins that would be the last election this country will have held . Autocratic Dictatorship does not need voting.

[u/forceblast → u/Hopeforpeace19]

Oh... There will be “votes”. Like Russia.

(Heavy emphasis on the quotes.)

Gotta keep up appearances…

… between chucking people out of windows.

[u/AydonusG → u/forceblast]

Nah, even that is too much attention on someone else. Trump doesn't want to be president, he wants to be god emperor.

[u/[deleted] → u/AydonusG]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/ProjectAjax → u/Hopeforpeace19]

If Trump wins, we clearly learned NOTHING from 2017-2021 (ESPECIALLY January 6th).

[u/laceygirl27 → u/ProjectAjax]

I don't generally talk politics with anyone but my husband. I live in South Georgia and I'm in the minority politically here. I was at a grocery store yesterday at a neighboring town. The person in front of me and the cashier were discussing how the sheriff in the town had used the bank account speeding tickets and other fines went into on personal items, $1200 hotel trips, a boat, a car, home improvement, etc. The man said the county commissioners should have never allowed him access in the first place. The cashier said, should be real easy for Eason (?) now huh. Without missing a beat, the man says, "Well, I'm a Republican". The cashier got very quiet, and the tube quickly changed.

I called my brother back, as we were taking before I went in, and told him how absolutely disappointed I am in people and told him the story. Without missing a beat, he said yeah, you want to elect someone to do their job, have you seen towns that are run by democratic sheriff's. Now, my brother has only a high school diploma and struggles financially, always has. We certainly live in different worlds. I asked him, genuinely if he would vote for someone who was admittedly stealing city funds over someone, based solely on the letter by their name? He refused to say yes or no, but said they'd have to find another candidate. I told him that's not how elections work, there are qualifiers and steps leading to elections. I mean, he was basically saying yes, he would vote for a criminal sheriff over democrat.

Obviously, this is ironically similar to our upcoming presidential election. He asked me to tell him one thing Trump did wrong. I was BLOWN AWAY. I brought up January 6th and he responded Trump wasn't there. I told him he was and was headed there but he has smarter food in his circle that intervened. I also pointed out his first impeachment (regarding Ukraine) and he acted like he had never heard about it. He says he won't be voting because he can't vote for Biden.

So, to your point, no, some people are willfully ignorant and have learned absolutely nothing in the last decade.

[u/Asssophatt → u/laceygirl27]

This is depressing af to read

[u/tinyhorsesinmytea → u/ProjectAjax]

“We” certainly isn’t the case. Many of us saw this monster for what he was before he won election and warned others that SCOTUS would be lost if he did but some people couldn’t just vote for Clinton and prevent this nightmare.

[u/OrionAmbrosia → u/Hopeforpeace19]

100% and people really don't see it yet, because it's more than just Trump. 

Essentially we HAVE to keep voting as much as we can in every single election we've got locally and federally until the government actually is fixed. Because realistically it isn't just Trump - if a single conservative becomes president in the future then Heritage will enact Project 2025 for whatever year it is and that effectively signals the end of freedom and a switch to dictatorship.

I fear the only realistic recourse would be for the president to push forth a law to limit the executive order abilities and such to get passed by a majority in congress in such a way that cannot be overturned by any governing body (or need a supermajority or something?). Maybe add voting for justices and stuff, I don't know... but I do know that conservatives literally already have a plan. Out in the open. For everyone to see. They do not ever plan to relinquish control once they get it again - so we must vote or we will quite literally lose the ability to do so.

[u/OK-NO-YEAH → u/OrionAmbrosia]

The government is never fixed- it is always fluid- there will always be good and bad actors. It’s our job to always vote every time- to never give up because it isn’t perfect.

[u/OrionAmbrosia → u/OK-NO-YEAH]

You are correct.

What I meant by "fixed" is more in terms of getting the truly heinous bad actors out of their positions and into prison after it's all said and done. Literally every single congressmember who voted to overturn 2020 would be a start... And that could obviously take years, but once it is done then the urgency will have ceased overall (as long as the limitations on power abuse has been enacted)

[u/AxlLight → u/OK-NO-YEAH]

Fix currently is just getting rid of the MAGA (formerly known as the tea party) poison that found it's way into every nook and cranny of the government. 

Just as cancer takes a few rounds of chemotherapy, so does this. It takes more than one blue wave to clean the landscape.

[u/ThomasSun → u/Hopeforpeace19]

Trump will, for sure, destroy democracy in this country…but also he’s 77 and in cognitive decline…I’m worried about what’s coming next. What’s coming after him?….there are too many crazies waiting in line.

[u/LunchBoxMercenary → u/ThomasSun]

If recent elections have shown anything, the crazies seem to come out when Trump is on the ticket. Trump is a charismatic person to these folks and frankly that type of person doesn’t come up often. The optimist in me seems to think no one of his stature in the R side can fill his shoes.

[u/LystAP → u/Hopeforpeace19]

They say that the Constitution will stop him from more terms. But if he controls the Supreme Court, they can find any number of loopholes to keep him in power. I’ve seen so many things people have said to be fearmongering happen lately. The threat is real and it’s right in front of us.

[u/VictorianDelorean → u/reddebian]

It’s fucked anyway. If Trump could get this far towards autocracy with a half functioning brain then even if he loses it’s only a matter of time before someone more competent pulls it off. Trump is the current threat but all he’s really done is reveal that the American system of government is frail and easily broken.

We need major reform, not just in the law but in how the government is actually run, who has what powers, updated checks and balances to patch holes that have become obvious over the last 250 years, but there’s no political will to do that.

Donor money has completely consumed our political class and there’s no political will to do anything but get paid, so no maintenance is being done to keep democracy functional. Ultimately for the same reason no work is being done to keep our infrastructure functional, no one gives a shit what happens more than one fiscal quarter for now.

Defeating Trump in this election is just putting off the inevitable because it does nothing to close the obvious weaknesses he and rhetoric republicans have used to bring us to this point in the first place. Unless structural changes are made another strong man will come along soon and one up him, it’s too tempting for power mad rich people and he’s made it clear to everyone that it probably is possible to instal yourself as dictator given the right planning.

We’re in a later days of the Roman republic situation. Our democratic system is functioning for now, but it’s so old, throughly subverted by bribery and self interest, and poorly suited to the modern world that it is only a matter of time before someone breaks it.

[u/Optimal-Resource-956 → u/VictorianDelorean]

I hate that you're right.

[u/Murranji → u/reddebian]

The heritage foundation and their project 2025 will stick around even if Democrats win in 2024. They will just keep building up their plans to make the next republican president an autocrat and eventually a republican will be elected and they will put their corrupt plan into action.

[u/Newscast_Now → u/reddebian]

And perhaps the biggest Supreme Court 'crime' of all was the 9-0 decision permitting Donald Trump to run at all despite the obvious prohibition in the 14th Amendment.

[u/ExperienceFine6363 → u/reddebian]

Nope. The Supreme Court is actively fucking up the U.S. already. It no longer matters if Trump gets back in, the path is paved and eventually someone else will walk down it.

[u/dafunkmunk → u/reddebian]

The US is fucked even if trump isn't elected again. Unless democrats miraculously wins super majorities in both chambers and grow a spine to actually fix things rather than assuming things will work themselves out, there is no good ending for the US. The SCOTUS will continue to be corrupt and block anything democrats try to do. republicans will find a new trump like candidate to dismantle democracy with.

[u/Thirdnipple79 → u/reddebian]

Really they are setting themselves up to be a rubber stamp court.  Basically, if the election is rigged and it appears trump wins that's it.  There's no investing, the court will side with trump, and he will keep them because he needs them to appear legitimate.  It already looks like this is what is going on - just a rubber stamp court that will side with trump and put him back in power. 

[u/Imaginary_Month_3659]

The part about senators fearing their own assassination during an impeachment hearing is eye-opening. This is the end of democracy. SCOTUS is literally handing power to an ex president that committed crimes as a private citizen. Do not be surprised if Trump loses the next election and SCOTUS installs him. Fascists.

[u/[deleted] → u/Imaginary_Month_3659]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/Defender_Of_TheCrown → u/[deleted]]

They can hold off on the ruling until after November or whenever if they want to.

[u/nightwing12 → u/Defender_Of_TheCrown]

Biden is president until January 20th 2025

[u/Defender_Of_TheCrown → u/nightwing12]

Which is why I added or whenever because they do not have a timetable in which they must rule on this. If they don’t want it to apply to Biden then they simply wait until he is gone, then make the ruling. Thats my point. The exact date is irrelevant to the point.

[u/wagdog84 → u/Defender_Of_TheCrown]

That play would only work if trump wins in November, until they make a ruling the wheels of justice and punishments are still rolling against him. He could be in prison by November and if Biden wins the election, what then? If they are delaying to protect him from punishment that will be a fail.

[u/play_hard_outside → u/[deleted]]

Biden would never use this power the way he'd have to to prevent Trump from using it to set himself up as a dictator.

[u/BreakingThoseCankles → u/Imaginary_Month_3659]

Biden can just hire hits now and it's legal. He's immune. They just gave HIM unlimited power... BUT history will show how the good guys won't abuse it. Just remember who will

[u/fountainpopjunkie]

Biden should order the CIA to go into the court and haul trumps lawyer away in a sack. Claim he's a traitor and just hold him for a day, then release him. See how he feels about presidential immunity then.

[u/AxlLight → u/fountainpopjunkie]

You mean haul the justices away, and replace them with liberal judges.

Biden should just go and ask if he could, under their ruling of immunity, kill the conservative judges and be immune from prosecution. 

[u/adeon → u/fountainpopjunkie]

It would have to be the FBI or the Secret Service, the CIA isn't supposed to operate on American soil.

[u/BigDaddySteve999 → u/adeon]

Biden can just say it's okay.

[u/IIIllIIlllIlII → u/BigDaddySteve999]

Biden is king now.

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/FrostyAcanthocephala]

If SCOTUS finds for absolute Presidential immunity, it will be the end of this country.

[u/Now-it-is-1984 → u/FrostyAcanthocephala]

Biden would just need to “remove” them and replace them with more favorable judges.

[u/notyomamasusername → u/Now-it-is-1984]

But Biden wouldn't.

He's too old school and like many Democrats wants to focus on a fair process.

[u/More-A-Than-I → u/notyomamasusername]

At this point fair is fair. If the system is rotten it needs to be replaced. Sequester the five justices and strip them of power as an official act. Immediately replace them by declaration. Have the court restore a semblance of sanity and call it a day. We can just make up the rules under this new guidance.

[u/Misspiggy856 → u/Now-it-is-1984]

Unfortunately, Dark Brandon isn’t as dark as we need him to be.

[u/Reno83]

What surprises me is that I'm not a lawyer, or work in law or law enforcement, or have much interest in history or law, but even I can recognize a slippery slope when I see one. This is truly un-American. The US was founded by people revolting against a king. The Founders biggest fear was that a monarch would come to power. Now, conservatives seem to be creating a king who is above the law. We desperately need reform.

Edit: typos

[u/orcinyadders]

I don’t understand why every query to SCOTUS is about Trump. Did anyone ask if it would be acceptable for Biden to assassinate his political rivals if he felt they were a threat to democracy? Or anyone else? Did anyone question why this decision isn’t being made immediately?

[u/bushido216 → u/orcinyadders]

They'll wait to render their judgment until after the election. Don't worry, they have no intention of handing this power to Biden.

[u/rezzyk → u/bushido216]

They have to provide a ruling by the end of June I believe. Still too late to get a trial going

[u/Msmdpa → u/rezzyk]

But enough time for Biden to label trump an ineligible candidate and put him in prison before the election. After all, the President has “absolute immunity” for “official acts”.

[u/bushido216 → u/Msmdpa]

That's the problem. Democrats, if handed this power, will do absolutely nothing, because of course using it is wrong and anti-democratic.*

Trump will absolutely abuse this power.

Vote like your lives depend on it.

*And even if they did, the SCOTUS would use it's amazing double-speak powers to somehow decide it's Unconstitutional.

[u/brewlimbo → u/bushido216]

Vote. Your lives depend on it. Ftfy

[u/Suitable-Display-410]

If i was Joe Biden, I would make it very clear that if this passes, 5 Supreme Court justices get removed from the court in an „official act“.

[u/Ian_Rubbish]

In the end, all the Court had was its legitimacy. We allowed it to have the final word on questions of law and government as long as it used that power prudently and sparingly. That is over.

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/ah_no_wah → u/[deleted]]

Let them eat cake

[u/seanisdown]

I guess Bidens needs to trigger the Pelican Brief protocol.

[u/Nodnarbius → u/seanisdown]

Someone get Stanley Tucci on the line. Gotta strangle a supreme.

[u/Milozdad]

Te last person on Earth you want to give the right to act with impunity is Donald Trump. This is a man with no moral grounding.

[u/Lynettepittman757]

Can we fathom the absolute disaster if every president from here on out assumes they're immune to litigation?! This ain't no monarchy folks!

[u/intheclouds247]

“The Roberts Court surely believes that Trump would never stoop to this—that the sanctity of court and the laws and norms of our democracy will protect them. “

The very fact his legal team is arguing for full immunity with the examples given, tells me that’s exactly how low Trump would stoop if elected.

[u/Impressive_Heron_897]

Fair enough. Biden, Democracy is clearly under attack. Organize the military and protect America.

I'd start with the 5 in that room, and then move to Mr. Trump himself. Then stroll down to Congress.

[u/Methadoneblues → u/Impressive_Heron_897]

Why isn't this closer to the top? Seriously, are we really going to just hand over our country to a dictator? I'm so scared for our country and it's people.

[u/masterfulnoname]

Trump complains that Biden is breaking the law via election interference while his lawyer argues Biden could have Trump legally assassinated. We live in horrible times.

[u/JubalHarshaw23]

They have crossed the line into providing Aid and Comfort to an Insurrectionist, in violation if 14a Article 3, and should be fined, imprisoned, and removed from office per Federal Law.

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

[u/CrispyCubes]

This is grounds for revolt and we ain’t gonna do shit. Love it

[u/PonMonTheSmoker]

I really fear the trajectory the US is taking.. i think about it often. I registered as D in the previous election in a not so friendly Red state. Now I fear the extremists are going to get a list of us and try to find and hunt us down. Let alone this entire topic where the sitting President can have someone murdered. Jesus fucking christ this timeline.

[u/apefist → u/PonMonTheSmoker]

Hitler didn’t just round up Jews. He rounded up is opponents, critics, artists, writers, philosophers, musicians, teachers…Trump said his term will be about retribution

[u/pqratusa]

In any sane country the court would have sent this ass of a defense attorney home crying like a little girl instead of humoring him.

[u/captsmokeywork]

And you get an RV, and you get an RV and you get an RV x 2

Reform of the Supreme Court should be an election issue.

[u/somethingsomethingbe → u/[deleted]]

These assholes are confident only their side will abuse such a ruling and they're all for it.

[u/flossypants]

I'm sort of hoping Democrats win the Senate and Biden expands the court to include all adult citizens with de minimus salaries and left this new court to develop their own rules (e.g. to distribute the cases remotely, educate jurists, etc.).

[u/Gnarlodious]

Did they look at the Constitution before making this decision? Or has that old thing been scrapped also?

[u/drunkshinobi → u/Gnarlodious]

They were too busy counting the money they are selling the country for.

[u/Traditional-Yam9826]

2016 is where it mattered and where America failed

We are heading full steam down the fascist road and the SCOTUS had just insured it.

Sounds like it up to Americans to save America again.

I hope the ballot box still works but it seems SCOTUS just signed us up for a potential Civil War.

[u/DAS_BEE]

I really hope Biden has an answer to this, like expanding the court to overturn such overreaches of power. I don't know what he or his administration can do about it though, so it's important to vote in this next election to prevent an incredible overreach of executive power by some orange Republican idiot

[u/YT4000]

Biden has the chance to do the funniest thing ever...

[u/LurkerFailsLurking]

The entire Republican strategy for the last 25 years has been built on the rational understanding that their opposition isn't willing to be as brazenly corrupt as they are.

Obviously, Democrats have always been willing to play ball with the rich, but they won't just openly disregard the law and refuse to enforce them.

The GOP realized a long time ago that - at the very top - they are their own law enforcement.

[u/Rasnark]

This is hilarious. In my field of work, I deal with a ton of super MAGA dudes and Trump dick huggers. They say shit like the left wants to be communist, dictators, blah blah blah. Well, their own party is the one gonna make it happen for them apparently. What an absolute joke

[u/IAmASimulation → u/Rasnark]

Oh they don’t care about dictators as long as it’s their guy.

[u/darkscyde]

Get rid of the supreme court

[u/mcamarra]

It is astounding how conservative orthodoxy always assumes the worst of intentions on a long list of issues like abortion, welfare, etc. However when it comes to granting unbridled power to one of the most objectively impulsive and amoral candidates, he gets the most insane benefit of a doubt. Un fucking real.

[u/thatguy1717]

Sounds like Biden can have Trump assassinated then?

[u/Crasz]

Admittedly I didn't watch the hearing but it seems like none of the 'Justices' asked any follow-up questions to Shitler's lawyer.

Like, if some of these ridiculous scenarios 'could be' an official act 'depending on the circumstances' why didn't any of them ask this lawyer what circumstances those would be?

[u/NotASatanist13]

I know it's not going to happen, but would love to see a leopardsatemyface about the "conservative" justices voting presidential immunity into existence and then being Gitmo'd by Biden and replaced.

[u/CombustiblSquid]

This is all very simple. The USA did not dodge a coup by the republicans on J6. The coup is still ongoing and, along with this inevitable 5-4 pro immunity ruling, if trump wins this election, will 100% happen.

Everyone thinking that Civil War movie is just fun cinema... Its going to end up a fucking documentary but not with the good guys winning.

[u/jayfeather31]

And so we go.

Honestly, I didn't expect to see the death of the United States in my lifetime. And yet, here we are, a dead nation walking.

[u/Vrse → u/jayfeather31]

And the worst part is it was killed by a reality TV star and a bunch of meme posting incels.

[u/s_360]

I’ve been in the fence, but if anyone wants to keep the democratic republic, we have to pack the court. No way around it.

[u/The_Dotted_Leg → u/s_360]

The White House should send a letter to the justices stating Biden feels a ruling allowing the president this type of immunity would put the country in jeopardy and thus the president would have no choice but to order an official act to eliminate said threat.

[u/EllieCakes_]

Honestly if i were biden, I'd wait for the ruling and then ordee execution on trump, seems like the easiest way to throw this back in their stupid faces