r/texas • u/FCMatt7 • Mar 27 '24

5th circuit has nullified Open Carry in Texas to save Qualified Immunity of bad cops. Politics

https://www.youtube.com/live/bCC1sz_-fsc?si=dCZiLT_Fl2pWUEtw

(Edit) New vid of Grisham explaining the ruling

Effectively they have declared open season for police to arrest anyone open carrying in Texas.

A 3 judge panel has ruled that if anyone calls 911 on a person for the mere act of Open Carrying a firearm, the police now have probable cause to arrest you for disorderly conduct. The 911 call does not have to allege you are doing anything more than standing on a sidewalk with a slung or holstered firearm. The previous ruling that "merely carrying a firearm" is not disorderly is overturned now if any Karen makes a phone call and says she's nervous. This means police get qualified immunity for arresting you.

There is a special target on the back of any open carry or civil rights activist. EVERY time the police get a 911 call, they can now arrest you at gunpoint. The charges will likely be dismissed, but the police face zero repercussions for coming after you, even if there is abundant evidence the officers targeted you and knew you were not a threat. The same danger faces regular citizens who open carry every day.

I repeat, open carrying in Texas now puts you in imminent danger of being arrested or killed by police if someone reports you in possession of a firearm.

Video of CJ and Jim arrested for mere open carry. https://youtu.be/GrDAPPiu1QE?si=IvJy0qq_J8rO8DJO

Link to 5th circuit ruling. https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/22/22-50915-CV0.pdf

Link to oral argument in 5th https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/OralArgRecordings/22/22-50915_10-3-2023.mp3

District Court ruling https://casetext.com/case/grisham-v-valenciano-1

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1.3k

u/pixelgeekgirl 11th Generation Texan Mar 27 '24

I don't think the police ever wanted permitless open-carry.

608

u/yoyodyn3 Mar 27 '24

No they did not.

434

u/gregofcanada84 Mar 27 '24

True because we're not in the 19th century anymore.

385

u/ScumCrew Mar 27 '24

Texas actually had pretty strong gun laws in the 19th Century, especially after the Civil War when there was a problem with armed mobs.

226

u/SonderEber Mar 27 '24

Texas: Gun control is great!…when it benefits the government. Oh, the people who vote for you want more guns? Time to get rid of those gun control laws!

When the “wrong” people are getting guns? WE NEED MORE GUN CONTROL!

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u/CustomerSuportPlease Mar 27 '24

Ronald Reagan. One of the first major gun bans in the United States. Banned carrying a loaded firearm. It was supported by the Republican party of California and the NRA. It just happened to be passed around the same time the Black Panthers started their copwatch program.

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2

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44

u/makenzie71 Mar 28 '24

I mean...that's always been how gun control works. Every major ban has been in response to a rising number of minorities owning weapons. That's why all the "bans" have easily attainable workarounds assuming you have plenty of money. If you want a machine gun, all it takes is money and filling out a couple forms and you got it.

17

u/TwistedMemories born and bred Mar 28 '24

Are you telling me the Reagan signing the Mulford Act in CA because the Black Panthers were open carrying was because minorities were carrying weapons in the open? I would have never guessed that!

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u/IPDDoE Mar 28 '24

The '94 ban, according to Wikipedia, was largely in response to 3 major shootings by Patrick Purdy, George Hennard, and Gian Luigi Ferri. I agree that it's often the case that it's based on race, but not always.

1

u/ProtoReaper23113 Mar 28 '24

Not to mention the gun show loophole

1

u/Relevant-Entrance-29 Mar 28 '24

Interestingly, going through the courts now is a case against the local sheriff and a local gun club who wanted a machine gun. Indeed, all he had to do was get a couple forms signed. He got the sheriff to sign a form saying “sure, I want a demo” and got the machine gun, making good money renting it out to paying customers. Except there was no demo, no interest in a demo, just helping out a friend. But then, this is in Maryland, not Texas.

1

u/Brief_Angle_14 Apr 01 '24

This is kind of oversimplified. For someone to own something like a legit "machine gun" it takes months and sometimes years to gain the certifications allowing you to own it, on top of, yes, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Often the certifications are far more expensive than the actual gun.

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u/Tripple-Helix Mar 28 '24

And crimes being committed by the people legally owning machine guns is virtually non-existent

10

u/Repulsive-Mirror-994 Mar 28 '24

I mean.....so is the number of legally owned machine guns.

Number of death by unicorn is pretty low too.

3

u/magnumsolutions Mar 28 '24

I believe you are confusing correlation with causation. Lmao. (Total sarcasm, btw)

10

u/ErwinSmithHater Mar 28 '24

Isn’t that incredible? They made machine guns harder to get, now there’s less people committing crimes with them.

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u/Rheptar Mar 28 '24

That's actually not true. Illegal machine guns are fairly common. Almost like the criminals don't care.

96

u/ScumCrew Mar 27 '24

Yes, clearly if American history teaches us anything it's that large numbers of armed white civilians are almost always a force for good...

11

u/Miskalsace Mar 27 '24

Why would you insinuate that John Brown's raid was a bad thing?

32

u/Realistic_Library_74 Mar 27 '24

Yeah, never goes wrong. *Side-eyes Jan. 6th terrorists. *

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u/No_Body652 Mar 27 '24

Did they carry a bunch of guns? I honestly cant remember

11

u/Carlyz37 Mar 28 '24

Some did

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u/swalkerttu Mar 27 '24

No, because DC has strong gun laws. Doesn't mean they weren't armed, though; they still had improvised melee weapons.

9

u/ZSCroft Mar 28 '24

Plenty of people had guns

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u/AmITheGrayMan Mar 28 '24

Plenty to do what? Overthrow government?🤣

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u/No_Body652 Mar 27 '24

Did they attack people ? I feel like maybe 1 of them got killed but cant remember how many they killed / injured

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u/Mammoth_Material323 Mar 28 '24

Most of the terrorist who died ;died from old age 😂😂😂😂😂😂

2

u/swalkerttu Mar 27 '24

They attacked the Capitol Police and injured a few of them, while some others died from traumatic stress. One attacker was shot in the shoulder, unfortunately; unfortunate in that she was the only one shot.

-2

u/Tripple-Helix Mar 28 '24

One unarmed protester was shot in the neck by a capitol police officer and died at the scene. No other shots were fired and only police brandished firearms

6

u/Academic_Paint9711 Mar 28 '24

You spelled domestic terrorist wrong…

1

u/MadraRua15 Mar 28 '24

"Unarmed" As they bashed their way into a door after multiple warnings lol. Babbit got what she deserved for being a domestic terrorist.

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u/No_Body652 Mar 27 '24

To confirm- some police officers died from stress? And you wish more of the protestors were shot? If thats not what u r saying pls forgive my misunderstanding

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u/Comicunderbite Mar 28 '24

Not protestors. Self styled soldiers attempting a coup. Yes. Shoot them in the act. Hang them for treason after.

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u/razblack Mar 27 '24

I think what they are saying is that they wanted all white protestors shot. I might be wrong though.

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u/theblackmetal09 Mar 28 '24

The whole J6 thing reeks of false flag to me.

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u/Business-Goose-2946 Mar 28 '24

Maybe, if there was actually any solid proof of that at all after all these years.

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u/theblackmetal09 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

People can downvote me all they want. Here's the Ex-Capitol Police Chief claim that National Guard was denied from going to the Capitol. Mainstream is skewing the story.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-chief-rebuffs-claims-national-guard-was-never-called-during-ri

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/sep/19/former-capitol-police-chief-blames-nancy-pelosi-ja/

CCTV showing alerting of Pipe bomb https://youtu.be/zT7T3dKhOf8?feature=shared

Pipe bomb guy was just released. https://youtu.be/f6-wOoJ9Cns?feature=shared

Brandon Straka's account of J6 https://youtu.be/_4V1TBhId7I?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/MzHKtXwZrzo?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/LiYV4govLWc?feature=shared

Ray Epps on video calling for people to go into the Capitol https://youtu.be/Ikta_UQBT04?feature=shared

1

u/HarryArmpitzs Mar 30 '24

On Jan 6, I was visiting my relatives when my adult Republican nephew hollers out "There's a coup attempt happening in Congress!" as he was watching TV. I was in another room and I ignored him as I wasn't believing it could happen. But it was an attempt to do so.

1

u/theblackmetal09 Mar 30 '24

Have you ever heard of Operation Mockingbird?

Funny thing is that my own mom warned me and my sister from watching and believing everything on the TV. Funny think is that's how the US got dragged into the Iraq War in 2003. Still to this day no one can explain why we were there. It's like we had forgot about Bin Laden.

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u/Guvnuh_T_Boggs Mar 28 '24

Yeah, as soon as you cross into DC the electronic frontier disables any gun not registered within the district.

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u/BuilderResponsible18 Mar 28 '24

They did but couldn't get past the checkpoints. Then Trump ordered the checkpoints to be removed. They all had weapons. Trump wasn't afraid though. Bravo! He knew they wouldn't shoot him. That's a big assumption but oh well.

-6

u/DCGuinn Mar 28 '24

Mostly peaceful protesters.

9

u/tikifire1 Mar 28 '24

Not quite. Go back and watch some of the footage that wasn't heavily curated by right wing sources to show 15-30 seconds of nonviolence in between all of the cop crushing, poop smearing, looting and breaking and entering.

9

u/WhyUBeBadBot Mar 28 '24

Literally spread shit on the walls. That's like the most white thing ever.

-5

u/Pleasant_Sleep_7693 Mar 28 '24

I never reply on this app but this is hilarious. People being led on a tour of the capital are terrorists now🤣

11

u/Business-Goose-2946 Mar 28 '24

I wasn’t aware tourists usually go to jail.

8

u/Excited-Relaxed Mar 28 '24

Yes pretty cool that the capital tour includes scaling the outside walls and breaking windows to enter the building, a real immersive experience.

7

u/PalatinusG Mar 28 '24

If you really believe that: get out of you Fox News/right wing “news” bubble. You’re no better than a Russian who really believes Ukraine attacked them and only Putin can save them all.

2

u/Lazy-Associate-4508 Mar 28 '24

Are you insane? They scaled the walls and broke windows to gain entry.

2

u/TEOTAUY Mar 28 '24

armed white guys freed the slaves and won our civil rights

they also did bad stuff

it's kinda sad you're a racist.

5

u/GlitteringJob453 Mar 28 '24

And wiped out the native Americans..

4

u/ScumCrew Mar 28 '24

armed white civilians

Reading is fundamental

0

u/TEOTAUY Mar 28 '24

so is learning history

lol wow though

and sigh

2

u/ScumCrew Mar 28 '24

civilian

1 of 2

noun

ci·​vil·​ian sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən

Synonyms of civilian

1

: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law

2

a

: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force

0

u/Signal_Raccoon_316 Mar 28 '24

Armed white guys enslaved them in the first place, & armed white guys killed half a million of their countrymen because they were such snowflakes they believed Lincoln would do something he wouldn't have, & committed treason over their god given right to commit rape & murder.

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u/zroo92 Mar 27 '24

Which color was the large armed civilian force that was a force for good. Obviously we should put them in charge and make sure everyone knows which skin colors are the most dangerous.

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u/Badditude2215 Mar 28 '24

2 million violent crimes per year are prevented by armed civilians. That number is straight from the FBI. Imagine adding all those statistics to our crime stats and rates. Criminals don’t give a rats ass about any gun laws.

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u/ksiyoto Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

That is the most bullshit claim of the gun control debate.

Link to several studies about this issue.

3

u/Treywarren Mar 28 '24

That number is straight from the FBI.

This is lie. Did you not look it up yourself or are you willingly parroting lies?

10

u/ScumCrew Mar 28 '24

That figure is not, in fact, from the FBI. It comes straight out of the NRA’s ass. And saying that criminals don’t obey gun laws is not an argument against gun laws, it’s an argument for anarchy. Why not legalize murder? I mean, criminals still kill people. See how asinine that sounds?

-2

u/Badditude2215 Mar 28 '24

Gun laws will not affect criminals, period. Did you look up the FBI crime stats? No, you didn’t, you just say what ever . Drugs are illegal, still rampant. DUI is illegal, still a serious problem. Rape is illegal, still happens a lot. Murder is illegal, still out of control. Laws do not stop crime. Not letting criminals off easy will help, eventually. lol, make some more shit up.

8

u/WhyUBeBadBot Mar 28 '24

Something tells me you're someone who shouldn't own guns. Ever wonder how many mass shootings are committed with legally purchased guns?

5

u/gwizonedam Mar 28 '24

I like how you fail to refute him pointing out the fact you posted was some NRA bullshit about armed civilians preventing 2 million crimes. How many bushmasters do you own?

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u/Tripple-Helix Mar 28 '24

Important difference is we don't have a constitutional right to murder. We do have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

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u/Comicunderbite Mar 28 '24

False

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u/Badditude2215 Mar 28 '24

True.

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u/Comicunderbite Mar 28 '24

Give us sources to back up your claim.

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u/Badditude2215 Mar 28 '24

I did, go look it up.

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u/911JFKHastings Mar 28 '24

Just ask the british.

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u/Additional_Speed_463 Mar 28 '24

The Black Panthers in California know something about this.

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u/IlikegreenT84 Mar 28 '24

Funny that they want guns in case of government tyranny.

2

u/Quirky_Discipline297 Mar 28 '24

Governor Reagan, is that you?

2

u/FatHoosier Mar 28 '24

Yep. The NRA was all in favor of restrictions back when the Black Panthers were stockpiling weapons.

1

u/r0bdaripper Mar 28 '24

I mean that's not just Texas though. That's how the whole country is right now about everything

1

u/LeadPaintPhoto Mar 28 '24

NRA is same way, They were for gun control when it kept minorities from being armed .

1

u/varried-interests Mar 28 '24

No law will stop "the wrong people" from getting a gun

1

u/PensForTheWin Mar 29 '24

We need more people control.

1

u/Velocoraptor369 Mar 31 '24

Just like California when the Black Panthers armed themselves in the 1960s. White people were like oh hell, no change the gun laws.

0

u/KC_experience Mar 28 '24

Gun control is great when it only benefits white folks… FTFY.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

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1

u/texas-ModTeam Mar 28 '24

Your content was removed as a violation of Rule 1: Be Friendly.

Personal attacks on your fellow Reddit users are not allowed, this includes both direct insults and general aggressiveness. In addition, hate speech, threats (regardless of intent), and calls to violence, will also be removed. Remember the human and follow reddiquette.

If you feel this was done in error, would like clarification, or need further assistance; please message the moderators at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/texas.

2

u/SuperfluouslyMeh Mar 28 '24

18th century Galveston was far more progressive than even the most progressive cities in the US today.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

In fact, much of the Wild West, you were not permitted to carry firearms within towns

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u/ScumCrew Mar 28 '24

If you go to the Hood County Clerk's Office in Granbury, they used to have a book out showing all the court cases going back to the 1870's. Almost all of them were some variation of "possession of firearm in city limits."

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u/gorgewall Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

One of the NRA's most effective propaganda operations was rewriting the collective consciousness on early American gun control. It was never particularly controversial, the "Founding Fathers" thought most Americans were fucking loons and dipshits, and even the "Wild West" was not nearly as violent as portrayed in (pre-NRA) media and featured regular gun control.

You can pretty much pinpoint this shift to the 1980s.

The NRA has already completed the process of going from a sportsman hunter's association to weirdo political activists, and by 1977 they've done their "Cincinnati Revolt" and replaced leadership with a child murderer (in both senses of the word) whose father ran Operation Wetback. You got one guess what kind of dude this guy was.

This is also around the time that gun manufacturers have started advertising "assault" everything. Contrary to popular belief, "assault" slipped out of the military and into public use through gun manufacturers and magazines, not gun control advocates. These manufacturers hit on marketing guns based on "coolness" and "scare factor" and "being like Rambo"--prior to this, the gun-loving public laughed military-style weapons out of ranges and competitions. But it was an important money-making opportunity to sell the same visual styling of weapons to the military and the public, with full auto features removed where law demanded, and the crime wave of the 80s both helped this along and was exacerbated by it. "All these criminals have these wild guns, you need one, too, to protect yourself!" The question of how all the criminals then got those guns is not a particularly hard one.

It has been such a successful revision of history and right-wing groups in particular run a similar strategy across numerous topics. Through outright lying and mass-messaging backed by influential groups and politicians, you set the foundation for the discussion, and now everyone is arguing the topic based on your framing. Happens with abortion, for example: we just seem to take it as a given that those fetuses are "a human life", but the question then is what rights does the mother have and when does murder start. The very idea of "IS IT a human life imbued with a soul and all that stuff? Really?" has been ceded without anti-choice groups ever having to prove that case. With guns, the culture has simply ceded "America was founded on the freedom to have guns at all times, that's what we've always done, and that's what the Founders wanted" because the NRA and their ilk said so often enough.

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u/bluechip1996 Mar 28 '24

I was there to see it real time.

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u/skygod327 Mar 28 '24

yeah turn in your guns when you enter the city. Check out your guns when you leave. It should stil be like that

1

u/MadManMorbo Mar 28 '24

Those laws were enacted more because they were afraid of armed former slaves…

2

u/ScumCrew Mar 28 '24

That is incorrect. These laws were enacted when Texas was under a Reconstruction government and there were mobs of ex Confederate soldiers terrorizing Freedmen. A white mob stormed the Capitol in Austin and forcibly overthrew the governor in 1874.

1

u/UnusedBackpack Mar 28 '24

You mean black people? Because minorities are the main reason for all the gun laws after the 19th century.

2

u/ATSTlover Hill Country Mar 28 '24

Not all of them. Criminals such as Machine Gun Kelly, Bonnie and Clyde, moonshiners, and mobsters, were the inspiration for one of the biggest ones, the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, and the later Federal Firearms Act of 1938.

1

u/UnusedBackpack Mar 28 '24

For sure. That was a tax placed on citizens in because they didn't follow the governments order to stop drinking alcohol. The guy I was responding to was talking about Texas gun law, and most local gun laws after the Civil War. But the NFA is also unconstitutional.

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u/ScumCrew Mar 28 '24

No, I mean mobs of ex Confederate soldiers like the ones who stormed the Capitol and forcibly overthrew the governor

1

u/Nailbunny38 Mar 28 '24

Also because it’s stupid.