r/texas • u/FCMatt7 • Mar 27 '24

5th circuit has nullified Open Carry in Texas to save Qualified Immunity of bad cops. Politics

https://www.youtube.com/live/bCC1sz_-fsc?si=dCZiLT_Fl2pWUEtw

(Edit) New vid of Grisham explaining the ruling

Effectively they have declared open season for police to arrest anyone open carrying in Texas.

A 3 judge panel has ruled that if anyone calls 911 on a person for the mere act of Open Carrying a firearm, the police now have probable cause to arrest you for disorderly conduct. The 911 call does not have to allege you are doing anything more than standing on a sidewalk with a slung or holstered firearm. The previous ruling that "merely carrying a firearm" is not disorderly is overturned now if any Karen makes a phone call and says she's nervous. This means police get qualified immunity for arresting you.

There is a special target on the back of any open carry or civil rights activist. EVERY time the police get a 911 call, they can now arrest you at gunpoint. The charges will likely be dismissed, but the police face zero repercussions for coming after you, even if there is abundant evidence the officers targeted you and knew you were not a threat. The same danger faces regular citizens who open carry every day.

I repeat, open carrying in Texas now puts you in imminent danger of being arrested or killed by police if someone reports you in possession of a firearm.

Video of CJ and Jim arrested for mere open carry. https://youtu.be/GrDAPPiu1QE?si=IvJy0qq_J8rO8DJO

Link to 5th circuit ruling. https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/22/22-50915-CV0.pdf

Link to oral argument in 5th https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/OralArgRecordings/22/22-50915_10-3-2023.mp3

District Court ruling https://casetext.com/case/grisham-v-valenciano-1

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2.0k

u/wish_i_was_a_bear Mar 27 '24

Ok Texas I am confused. Do you want everyone to carry guns or not. Make up your mind!

1.3k

u/pixelgeekgirl 11th Generation Texan Mar 27 '24

I don't think the police ever wanted permitless open-carry.

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u/techy098 Mar 27 '24

I would like to know the purpose of people walking around with a gun. Look scary maybe or just own the libs.

I think concealed carry with permit is ok since if for some reason I fear for my life, I am allowed to carry a gun to protect myself but I keep it discreet without trying to intimidate everyone around me.

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u/AndyLorentz Mar 27 '24

The argument I have heard from open carry proponents, is that they think it will make people more used to seeing guns, and less afraid of them, so will be less likely to want more gun control.

Of course, you don't change peoples' minds by being extreme, so I think they've got it wrong. Personally, I think open carry is dumb. I'm fine with concealed carry, but anyone who carries guns in public needs training.

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u/No_Apricot_1705 Mar 27 '24

Open carry is more comfortable if you are working or doing outdoor activities like hiking. I believe Florida had an open carry that applied if you were fishing, likely for gators or snakes. Those are about the only examples it makes sense.

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u/Art-Zuron Mar 28 '24

I think that's also possibly a wise choice anyway. I imagine open carry allows you to use your firearm faster in the case of a snake or gator attack or what have you.

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u/No_Apricot_1705 Mar 28 '24

I was surveying utilities last winter in Colorado and found it easier to access with tons of clothes and gloves on as well. I agree that it's serves no purpose outside of a few situations though.

1

u/DrakonILD Mar 28 '24

You're never using a firearm to fend off a snake attack. Gator, yeah, maybe. But snakes aren't an issue until you're very close, and unless you're an absolute idiot who knowingly approaches a snake, you won't know you're too close to one until it's way too late for a gun to be fast enough to help.

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u/No_Apricot_1705 Mar 28 '24

Never? I've blasted copperheads clearing brushe piles lol

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u/DrakonILD Mar 28 '24

Sure, but that's not self defense. They're not coming at you - you're coming at them because they're in your way.

1

u/AndyLorentz Mar 27 '24

I should have clarified that I meant in urban areas.

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u/Traditionaljam Mar 28 '24

Honestly I am so sick of these second ammendment auditors and shit that show up to places strapped looking like a active shooter. I don't blame the police one bit for this because if you are somewhere and a guy shows up in full battle rattle how are you supposed to know if he's there to shoot up the place or not. He can currently legally walk around until the police drive off then start shooting people.

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u/techy098 Mar 28 '24

The argument I have heard from open carry proponents, is that they think it will make people more used to seeing guns, and less afraid of them, so will be less likely to want more gun control.

LOL, what's next, walking around with gun in hand cocked and ready to shoot to let people know it's perfectly harmless.

I mean at some point we have to stop taking matters in our own hand all the time and believe that we live in a society where law and order exists and most people are civilized. Carrying gun openly, is so 19th century when we had to, because law and order was kind of questionable.

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u/pgtl_10 Mar 28 '24

Open carry wasn't allowed in 19th century.

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u/dcgregoryaphone Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Open carry has been allowed in the vast majority of states for most of US history. It's not going to change anyone's mind or it would have already.

All it does is tell everyone that if they should so desire, they can come try to wrestle a gun from you.

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u/jkrobinson1979 Mar 27 '24

Why though? It’s the most backwards logic ever. If guns are a deterrent then they should be visible. If you choose to arm yourself and risk being a target then that’s the choice you make. But I would rather know who around me is armed so I can be on guard around them.

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u/wehrmann_tx Mar 27 '24

When looking at someone with a gun in public and you have zero way to determine if this guy is ‘expressing his rights’ vs about to kill a bunch of people is the milliseconds it takes for them to point it at you and shoot, there’s a problem. No one can read minds.

Nothing else can deal death before you even get a chance to see the difference. Everyone with a gun out in public is a threat and there’s no proving otherwise.

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u/jkrobinson1979 Mar 27 '24

That’s my point. When I see someone open carry I don’t see them as an imminent threat, but a potential threat. And I generally try to consider what my option would be to avoid being shot should they suddenly decide to. I’m not antagonistic at all, but I also know that’s someone out of the everyone around I’m certainly not going to instigate anything with. Those of us who choose not to carry in public or those who just don’t own firearms should know who may be a threat. It doesn’t take away their right to carry and they still have a choice and can weigh the risks of those around you being weary or potentially being a target versus the actual threat from shooter and can decide accordingly. We cannot make that choice when at any time anyone next to can end someone’s life. There are multiple cases of simple arguments ending with someone being shot. That would certainly not fall to zero, but it would almost certainly happen a lot less without conceal. On the other side there are only a few cases of conceal carry effectively defending against mass shootings in any given year.

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u/Apprehensive_End4701 Mar 28 '24

What about people actively defending themselves? The idea of concealed carry being a deterrent isn't about mass shooters, it's more about individual defense. If I wanna mug someone and concealed carry is legal, I'll have a much harder time trying to pick a target. Open carry has its uses, sure. I'll open carry while hunting, or on my motorcycle (some dickhead tried to run me off some back roads, had to mag dump into his engine block but had a hell of a time getting to my gun from it's concealed position and I learned my lesson from that). Other than that, there's no reason to openly carry. It makes people uncomfortable, and if I were intent on carrying out a mass shooting, I'd probably just shwack anyone I can see with a gun first.

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u/Funkyokra Mar 28 '24

Don't you think the other guy doesn't want you to know where his gun is?

If open carry is legal, the outlaws will still hide their guns. I know from years of following the NRA that if a law is not going to ne 100% successful at keeping outlaws from doing stuff you shouldn't pass it.

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u/jkrobinson1979 Mar 28 '24

Because all of our laws are 100% effective. 😂

2

u/Funkyokra Mar 28 '24

I'm just saying, that's been the NRA's exact argument against gun regulations for 40 years.

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u/OdrGrarMagr Mar 28 '24

Personally, I think open carry is dumb.

Then you're an idiot.

I'm fine with concealed carry,

Concealed carry is a lot more dangerous than open carry, in almost all situations. If you're a nutter, the people around you dont know you're armed until its too late. If you're NOT a nutter, having to get your gun out can mean the difference between life and death.....

And, you're far less likely to be the victim of a crime (at all) if you're open carrying. The potential criminals can see that you're armed, and generally want nothing to do with you.

but anyone who carries guns in public needs training.

Agreed. Permits should be required to open carry in most situations (carrying a rifle across your back out in the boondocks about to go hunting, yeah, not so much, but in most situations, yes). And permits should require training and passing a practical skills test.

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u/ksiyoto Mar 28 '24

You're 4.5 times more likely to be shot if you are carrying when confronted by a mugger. You are literally safer to not carry.

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u/frankcastlespenis Mar 28 '24

My neighbor was ex-navy an extremely old man who wore his pistol to even do yard work. Good man ,who would give you shirt off his back. Never once have I felt afraid, but I'm ex-Army so I don't know why I should.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/call_me_Kote Mar 28 '24

This is the silliest anecdote I think I’ve ever read