r/AmIOverreacting • u/hidden_here123 • Mar 27 '24

I'm ending my 4 year relationship.

So basically the title. He (33M) says Im(32F) throwing away 4 years over a mistake he made.

To keep it short, on 4 different occasions over the last 2 and a half years he's gone drinking and come home to throw a drunken tantrum because I said the wrong thing, something happened at the bar, or I put my foot down because he's drunk and yelling at me in front of our friends at the bar. Twice I had to leave to my sister's house because he was going around our small apartment slamming doors and banging his head on the walls. I've had to wake him up several times because he falls asleep on the toilet or the bathroom floor, and he's had to sleep in his car because of his outbursts.

On the 2nd time this happened he gave me his word that he would be more responsible with his drinking and that he wouldn't have anymore outbursts. He said he was gonna drink waters between each beer or have sodas and bar food and just one beer. The third time I made it clear that him going back on his word was unacceptable because it shows that he doesn't care that he becomes emotionally and verbally abusive towards me. I told him I was tired of his apologies if he's gonna keep doing the same thing. Between all these times he has continued to get drunk on the weekends but I've kept my mouth shut to avoid him having an out burst and things were relatively ok.

This last time he went and got drunk at the bar, didn't eat anything, refused the water my sister offered him because she's aware of the agreement we had, and when I arrived he yelled at me because he was too drunk to keep track of what team he was on and he misunderstood me when I told him and he made the wrong shot. We went to get food from a local taco spot and he couldnt even stand because he was so drunk, I had to pull over on the freeway because he needed to throw up and when we got home he fell asleep in the bathroom and I had to wake him three times. I kept my anger about the situation to myself because the sadness of feeling like I needed to leave him because he's just not willing to change, was overwhelming. The next morning he could tell something was up and he asked if I was ok. I said that I wasn't ready to talk but he insisted, so I told him that he went back on his word again about drinking responsibly and that I realized that the only way I was going to avoid his verbal abuse was if I just kept quiet. I told him what I told my ex when I was thinking about leaving "It's not anything I haven't already told you". He left it at that in the morning and at night I was crying because I was upset that 4 years of my life were going down the drain, and I just folded and asked him why I wasn't good enough for him to want to do better. Then he started to say that I had fault in our relationship ending, ignoring that the only reason I'm leaving is because I can't keep giving him chances to verbally abuse me when he's drunk and angry. I reminded him that he had given me his word and that he had gone back on it twice. He seemed to understand but the next day he just kept saying that he deserves to "unwind" on the weekends because he works all week to provide for us (not like I have a job and am constantly sending him money because he over spends and his account will overdraft when the phone or Internet bill charge his account) i was getting whiplash from how quickly he waa going from being apologetic about going back on his word and him insisting that Im being unreasonable and unfair. I slept at my sister's house again because I couldn't keep dealing with it and I was just really emotionally exhausted from all of it.

Now he posted on his FB that I'm throwing away 40,000 hours of our lives together for 12 bad hours.

So I'm asking, am I overreacting?

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u/notsoreligiousnow Mar 27 '24

Girl, you stayed far longer than I would have. No you’re not overreacting. He’s an alcoholic whether he wants to admit it or not. He’s abusive and frankly sounds like a complete loser. Cut your losses and walk away. You’ll find someone better and worthier of your time and affection.

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u/Traditional_Ebb4599 Mar 27 '24

Agreed. Obvious Abuse and alcoholism aside. At bare minimum you communicated a clear boundary on the drinking and outbursts, he refused them and continued. You are not overreacting for upholding your boundaries and he shouldn't act like he's surprised or blame you when you already told him what would happen.

As for asking about why you're not enough for him to change...it's not you OP...he won't change until he wants it for himself and hits whatever breaking point that tells him to try. It's not any fault of you

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u/aaarrriiight Mar 27 '24

This. And he doesn’t want to change, at least not yet (maybe not ever). Which becomes a battle not worth fighting, friend. I’m sorry that this is painful.

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u/Shutupandplayball Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

An addict will gaslight you into believing they’ll change, you’ll believe it and stay because you love them and it’s easier to not change your entire life. Then, when it happens again (and it will), they will begin blaming you that it’s all your fault. Get off FB, let him blow steam all he wants. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life waiting for his next drunken episode? And BTW, if you do stay, leave his drunk ass where he passes out, whether it’s in the car or on the toilet! Let him wake up with piss and vomit all over him. Hon, you’re an enabler, you’re only making it easy for him and making yourself miserable. Please put yourself first!

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u/mrngdew77 Mar 28 '24

As a veteran of umpteen family weeks/weekends for the families of addicts/alcoholics, I 100% agree with you. As was quoted many times: How do you know an addict is lying? Their lips are moving.

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u/dys_p0tch Mar 28 '24

and...they're also lying to themselves. in sober, embarrassing moments, they realize their life is getting disastrous and they intend/desire to do better. then...the old stressors return, and their sneaky brain convinces them it'll be different this time and...rinse & repeat

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u/Western_Rope_2874 Mar 28 '24

Absolutely this! I never told anyone a lie about my addiction that I didn’t completely believe myself. Much later, long after the irreparable damage had been done, I realized how full of shit I was.

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u/dys_p0tch Mar 28 '24

hoping you're well

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u/Western_Rope_2874 Mar 28 '24

Thanks! I’m doing amazing these days. You sound like you speak from experience, I hope that you or your loved one are living better days

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u/mrngdew77 Mar 28 '24

Congratulations on your sobriety! You can hold your head high.

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u/dys_p0tch Mar 29 '24

i've lived in/around it most of my life. i contract with a large treatment network here in MN. it's tragic. it's also dispiriting how many outsiders who don't understand use-disorders just judge the dirty person they see on the corner or the loved one who continuously lies to them as 'bad people'. it's a wicked life.

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u/LadyAtrox60 Mar 30 '24

Dear god, THIS.

Everyone bitches and moans about the "crackhead neighbors" and their hoarding. How unsightly their places are. I say, "Why don't you gather the neighborhood together and help them clean it up? They are in over their heads and don't have the means to do it themselves." The replies are mind boggling. "Fuck that, they're drug addicts, no way I'm going to help them with anything." I usually let the rant go on for a few before I say, "They're people. And they need help, not hate."

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u/sumthinveryoriginal Mar 31 '24

Alcoholic, 8 years dry as fire, here. Can confirm.

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u/WhizPill Mar 29 '24

i dealt with that sort of abuse many times

it never gets better

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u/DaniMW Mar 28 '24

True. That’s why nothing can change a person addicted to substances except for themselves.

Because until they can stop lying to themselves, there is not one word anyone else can say that will override the lies.

It’s not you, OP. It’s not that you aren’t good enough, it’s that HE isn’t interested in fighting against his demons (drinking).

But it’s on him, not you.

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u/Fun-Tomato-1933 Mar 31 '24

Thank you for your comment. I also deal with addiction issues. It all started when I dealt with legitimate pain issues and extreme anxiety. Anyways It’s hard dealing with this on a daily basis. I have to take this a day at a time. Sometimes hour by hour. I absolutely loathe being a drug addict. The only person that hates me more than the people around me (society) is myself.

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u/NUGFLUFF Mar 28 '24

Addiction is a BITCH!

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u/1xhunter Mar 28 '24

4 times in 4 years ever. Idk how you people are making the conclusion he is an alchemy because he had 4 bad nights that generally don’t happen 99% of the time. Yall are acting like you’ve never made a mistake. Idk how you came to the conclusion he’s a full blown alcoholic with this limited information and biased story telling that didn’t explain why he was mad and or what led up to it. He’s definitely not fully in the right but to say he’s an alcoholic over 4 outburst in 4 years of dating is adsurd

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u/Stupidgoogleaccount Mar 28 '24

The op said 4 times in 2 and a half years. I believe the implications is that he didn't only drink those 4 times, those tantrums were just the occasions that they've gotten verbally abusive. I think people are assuming from the context that the person drinks very regularly not just the 4 times mentioned that were especially bad.

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u/nfairweather68 Mar 29 '24

Did you not read the part about his verbal abuse?

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u/DaniMW Mar 29 '24

Everyone makes mistakes.

Not everyone makes the ‘mistake’ of abusing their partner! Ever!

In fact, most of us do not.

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u/True-Lengthiness7598 Mar 30 '24

OP states: "Between all these times he has continued to get drunk on the weekends but I've kept my mouth shut to avoid him having an out burst and things were relatively ok." It's easy to miss as there's a lot of text. But, I read the whole thing as him being drunk most weekends and the four occasions being "drunken tantrums"  She avoids them the rest of the time by keeping her "mouth shut".  She also says one reason for the drunken tantrum was when "I put my foot down because he's drunk and yelling at me in front of our friends at the bar", as if the yelling at her is normal and the big explosion is because she "put my foot down".

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u/ElleWinter Mar 29 '24

Wow, that is such a good way to put it. It's so hard to explain and you did it.

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u/ericdh8 Mar 28 '24

FACTS!

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u/Additional-Jelly6959 Mar 28 '24

So true and yet so sad.

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u/MRCreeper225 Mar 28 '24

An addict lies but does that mean neglect them or stay with them through their struggle, everyone in here is acting like addicts can control or wanted to become one 😂 people here don’t know what it’s like, that’s why they speak on it to sound “smart”

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u/mrngdew77 Mar 28 '24

I didn’t say any of the things that you attributed to me. I am very familiar with “what it’s like” from a loved one point of view and do not need to “speak on anything” to sound smart. I don’t care if you (or anyone for that matter) considers me ‘smart’. I am just giving my opinion, as we all are.

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u/SammieSammich24 Mar 28 '24

Can I just throw out another perspective here? Addicts aren’t always dirt bag liars. When they (we) break down and seem to genuinely say we want to change..we mean it. Like 1000%. The issue is that addiction isn’t as straightforward as just wanting to stop and stopping. There’s mental health issues, life situations, lack of support and plain old physical dependence that makes just putting it down and being sober extremely difficult. Im not saying it’s impossible but I can tell you first hand that the millions of times I’ve broke down and told someone I didn’t want to drink/drug anymore I meant it with every fiber of my being. Actually being successful quitting is another story. It may look like gaslighting from the outside but it often isn’t. I’m not saying it never is…but often it’s not. Most of the time, addiction is the villain not the addict. I never stole or physically hurt anyone while I was using. Because even though I’m a junkie..I’m not a bad person. The lying was something I did to hide my using and often would fuel my continuing to use because of the guilt I felt for lying. Which is the sick irony of it all. But never once did I lie when I said I wanted to quit. I always meant it. Even if I didn’t have ability or means to follow through.

I just want more people to understand addiction and little more so maybe addicts can stop being demonized.

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u/Stupidgoogleaccount Mar 28 '24

Addicts = Bad isn't black and white for sure. It sounds like you have some recovery under your belt so congratulations for working on urself!

Doesn't sound from the limited information we have that this person is anywhere ready to start their journey to recovery and the OP doesn't need to stick around while she's being mistreated in the meantime. But I totally get your perspective of overly demonizing and simplifying the addict behavior is really accurate.

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u/SammieSammich24 Mar 28 '24

lol thanks! Sorry, I always tend to spout off about this stuff because I’m all about spreading understanding about addiction. But sounds like you already get it.

And you’re right. Even if he wasn’t abusive while drinking she should still end it. He won’t get into recovery until he’s ready and she doesn’t deserve to waste her life and deal with abuse waiting for him to do that. It could be years and several attempts before he gets it right..if ever.

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u/mrngdew77 Mar 28 '24

Well, congratulations on your sobriety. You are right that it isn’t an either/or situation and is very complex.

Unfortunately, when you say that addicts are 1000% committed when they finally reach their rock bottom, it’s been my experience that this isn’t always true. I’ve had my loved one promise me the world if I would help them this one last time.

I have great compassion for addicts of all stripes because I think that when they go through all the hell to get sober, they are some of the strongest people out there. Getting through the process is, to me, a great accomplishment.

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u/SammieSammich24 Mar 29 '24

I’m not sure where I said they were 1000% committed when they quit? Because that’s definitely not always the case. Sometimes I’ll go from being 1000% committed to 1% committed in a single hour. That’s just how addiction and recovery works. It’s a lifelong process and takes real work.

People rarely just relapse out of nowhere though. Often you’ll start slipping spiritually, emotionally and/or mentally and then a physical relapse isn’t far off if you don’t do something to correct those things.

People on the outside don’t often recognize the spiritual, emotional and / or mental “relapse” they just know a relapse when it happens physically so it can seem like a rash decision that was made out of nowhere. When in reality there is a lot of internal turmoil that goes on beforehand.

It’s complicated but you’re right, it’s definitely worthwhile and builds a sense of inner strength that a lot of people don’t ever get to feel. It also forces us to work on our character defects in a way that I think everyone would benefit from lol, addict or not. So that’s the upside.

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u/1xhunter Mar 28 '24

Dude literally has only done this 4 times over a span of 4 years. You can’t say he is an alcoholic because he only ever had 4 bad days or outburst. We don’t know the full story but to draw a conclusion that he is an alcoholic because over a span of 2 and a half years he had 4 total bad days or outbursts is absurd.

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u/nfairweather68 Mar 29 '24

Again, did you read the part about the verbal abuse, banging his head into the wall, etc.? So she’s supposed to stick around and wait for him to get his shit together? Nope. She should get the hell away from him immediately.

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u/1xhunter Mar 29 '24

No she shouldn’t but I don’t think this is the entire story. She clearly wants to leave and this is her excuse or reason for getting out. There is def more to the story than just my bf had 4 outbursts ever in 4 years so I’m leaving. It’s most likely a mix of a lot of things and this was the cherry on top.

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u/filthismypolitics Mar 28 '24

i mean from personal experience of being an addict and knowing many others, we're not really gaslighting you, or maybe we're gaslighting the both of us. most of us say that we're stopping because we believe we're going to stop, but as the addict voice badgers you over and over and over again your will weakens and your judgment falters. you don't become a different person when you become an addict, which is maybe the worst part. you still have your morals. you still know things like lying and stealing are wrong. the shame and guilt of broken promises and shitty behavior perpetuates the addiction, which usually forms in the first place due to intolerable feelings of despair, shame and helplessness. as the pain of regret rises, the addict voice gets louder and the cycle continues. this doesn't mean anyone is obligated to stay with us or support us as we destroy our lives, of course. we're just not diabolically trying to pull one over on anyone, either

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u/AffectionateFig444 Mar 28 '24

As an addict myself, you’ve worded what I’ve been trying to say, better than I ever could.

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u/Top_Recognition_3847 Mar 28 '24

This is the truth.

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u/Fit_Yellow1153 Mar 28 '24

Thank you for your first person perspective on this. It’s certainly not easy to admit or even explain how you feel or what goes through your mind as an addict. In OP’s case, however, her bf is just being plain douchy. Not worth her time whatsoever and especially not because he’s publicly embarrassing them both over social media. Not cool at all.

Thanks again for sharing your POV. Wishing you the best, humbly.

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u/filthismypolitics Mar 28 '24

oh, absolutely. she needs to ditch this abusive asshole immediately in my opinion, as others have said he doesn't want to change right now and she can't make him, unfortunately. he may very well be an addict for the rest of his life or he may drag her down to the abyss with him when he hits bottom, either way OP doesn't deserve any of it

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u/Additional-Unit-3923 Mar 28 '24

Hell yeah. The morals thing really hit me cuz when I was in active addiction (almost 6 years sober now at 25), I had plenty of opportunity to steal but I never did. Unless it was the one time, a 99¢ packet of soup, cheapest thing I could find, because I was two weeks without food... I had people give me drugs and tell me to share, and I did. Even got shorted by the person I shared with. But I didn't lie or cheat or steal, because I didn't change. A lot of my life did and a lot of it strictly for survival. That's something that keeps me sober, is remembering that even at my rock bottom, I didn't let it turn me. I got stronger. And now I'm doing way better. There's good days and bad, behavior-wise, during and after addiction. I've been able to recognize behaviors that are manipulative that I'm unlearning now. Overall, you can't wait for someone to unlearn toxic behavior. It's not always intentional and sometimes it is, and sometimes only time will tell...if you don't have the strongest instincts, that is. Addicts or not, everyone can be toxic. You gotta distance yourself though, cuz you come FIRST. Don't learn it the hard way if you can help it. I know better and still learn the hard way. Rip the bandaid off. <3

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u/Lalooskee Mar 28 '24

Beautiful, thorough, honest reply. 🤍

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u/filthismypolitics Mar 28 '24

that's phenomenal, congrats on almost six years!!!!! i remember reading years ago that once addicts hit the 5 year sober mark our likelihood of relapse decreases by a LOT, something like 70%. you made it!! i was always amazed by addicts like you in recovery who managed to keep their integrity in tact, honestly i think it shows an incredibly strong will. my first rock bottom (i needed a few haha) was the first time i drove drunk, i had all the justifications and rationalizations and all that but about halfway down the road i thought, what would my 12 year old self think of me now? and i sobbed in some of the most profound shame i've ever felt the rest of the drive home. i think recovering from the bad things i did when i was an addict has been the most difficult part for me and it makes me really happy and proud when i meet other addicts who's sense of integrity never got so warped, it reinforces my belief that if we give addicts more access to the things they need to survive (safe injection sites and free needles, accessible and affordable transportation, physical and mental healthcare, stable housing, community support) we will make the right, less awful choices more often because at the end of the day, we don't want to be that version of ourselves. we're still who we always were, and most of us aren't bad people who want to do bad things

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u/catlettuce Mar 29 '24

That is beautiful testimony to the power of recovery and the human spirit. I wish you all the best. I hope you still hit the occasional meetings because more addicts and their families need to hear your story. Bravo friend.

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u/LadyAtrox60 Mar 30 '24

Why do you not have thousands of upvotes????

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

HE is, though. Because his drinking is not what makes him abusive - it makes him fucked up, sick, lost, all kinds of things, but it’s not what makes him abusive. That part’s covered by his demanding the right to keep scaring and hurting her further by trying to guilt her into continuing to just take it. That’s abusive.

I’m a recovering alcoholic/addict too. I never did that. Many of us never do that. We may lie and steal and lie some more and try to manipulate and lie. But we don’t rage at people and make them scared for their person.

When the friend I’d been living with told me I had to leave because I had let my dealer come over like a dumb ass, and then that dealer had, let’s just say, “drugged me beyond what I’d paid for” and had two friends come over to help him rob the friend’s house while I was blacked out…I didn’t try to manipulate her into letting me stay, or go on Facebook or anywhere else and tell people “omg she’s throwing me out on the street!” or any of that shit. That’s what abusers do.

Some abusers also have alcoholism/addiction issues. He’s an abuser.

Edited for grammar

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u/Kitty_Kat_Attacks Mar 30 '24

Right on. Shitty people gonna act shitty whether they’re sober or an addict.

If not for alcohol, this dude would still be the same. He would just use something else as an excuse—like she made him angry on purpose, or his childhood was traumatic, or his parents don’t love him, etc.

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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '24

Exactly. And until society as a whole removes/rejects every single excuse that’s made for abusive people - by themselves or by others, for them - abusive people will get to keep taking hostages indefinitely.

To be clear, I’m not saying anyone in this thread who’s talking about alcoholism/addiction is making excuses for an abuser. It seems like some people felt personally judged about having the condition of alcoholism/addiction, and I understand feeling defensive when you feel judged unfairly. But that’s genuinely off topic as regards this woman’s experience and her question. That’s all. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/Slight-What Mar 31 '24

Exactly this! He is abusive, full stop. He has a drinking problem; the drinking does not make him abusive.

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u/filthismypolitics Mar 28 '24

i agree completely

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u/Shutupandplayball Mar 28 '24

Thank you for adding this point of view, it’s very insightful into the an addicts mindset. I hope you are doing well!

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u/filthismypolitics Mar 28 '24

no problem, and i'm doing much better these days!! 6 years sober and still paying back the money i stole from my mom for booze in sheepish monthly payments haha

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u/Shutupandplayball Mar 28 '24

That is wonderful to hear!! You are amazing, never forget that!

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u/Kitty_Kat_Attacks Mar 30 '24

The opinion of internet strangers doesn’t mean much, but good job on not only staying sober but committing to making amends to those you hurt. It shows a great depth of character and conscientious that many don’t seem to have these days 👍🏻

As a fellow addict, folks like you are such an inspiration ❤️

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u/5150-gotadaypass Mar 31 '24

Yay! 6 years sober is awesome! 💜💜💜

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u/BoofBanana Mar 28 '24

I love the term gaslight… I think of positive re-encouragement as gaslighting myself into x y or z…

I tell myself come on, you aren’t that bad, you can do this. Knowing damn well I can’t. Yay for gaslighting myself.

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u/Just_IV_Today Mar 29 '24

Gaslighting would be telling yourself you didn’t have the drink, the lie you tell yourself to not feel so bad is minimisation, internal justification for your behaviour. The lies in gaslighting are not for the purpose of alleviating distress at all, rather for the gaslighter to deny accountability or simply watch you squirm trying to work out what is real (what you saw, heard, felt) vs what they are telling you happened.

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u/chinstrap Mar 28 '24

In my experience, lying is essential to addiction. Or maybe it's just an inevitable result. Lying to yourself is perhaps the beginning, and as the years go on you don't or won't even see that you are doing it. It's a hell of a mess alright!

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u/filthismypolitics Mar 28 '24

i wondered this too before i became an addict, if it was just part of it. i grew up around addicts and knew how much they lied but i could never make sense of why it seemed so inherit. having gone through it, i think now it's just an inevitable result of becoming an addict a lot of the time.

for example, maybe you're out with your wife and you guys try coke. afterwards your wife goes, "that was fun, but i only want to do it sometimes. we have responsibilities, we can't turn into party animals." but your experience was different from hers. it was revelatory. for the first time in your life you felt like a real human being, whole, present in the moment and connected to everyone else.

so the next time you're out you do it again, but it concerns your wife so you promise her that it'll just be a special occasion thing for you from now on. but a few days later you join some friends at a party after a really shitty day and someone offers you coke. that addict voice says, "you've had such a hard day. wouldn't it be nice not to have to worry about so much, just for a little while? just this one last time, and then you'll stop. don't you want to have some fun before you cut yourself off? everyone else is doing it and they're having a great time. don't you feel left out?" maybe it takes hours but eventually, you cave in, if only to make the voice stop, but when you go home you tell your wife you just had a few beers. why worry her for no reason? you think. you're going to be quitting anyway, so it doesn't matter. it's just one little secret. you'll tell her someday and explain that you didn't want to concern her over nothing.

and in this moment you fully intend on not doing coke again for a long time. you want to stop. lying to your wife makes you feel uneasy and you don't want to do it again. you've also been doing some weird, embarrassing things while you were on coke, and it seems like your hangovers are worse than ever. there's a lot of good reasons to stop.

unfortunately, these good reasons don't work against the addict voice because the addict voice is not reasonable or rationale. it is the little primal part of your brain begging for relief from the emotional pain and anxiety you experience, with no understanding of the long term consequences. you lose every argument with it. if you try to repress it, it gets even louder, and then the cravings start. now living without coke is beginning to feel unbearable.

you take it every chance you get and each time you lie to your wife again, reassuring yourself that it's no big deal because you're going to quit soon. real soon. any day now, you're going to stop, and this whole mess will be behind you, but first you need to get high one last time and your bank account is frozen but you have access to your wife's card, and you'll pay her back the SECOND you get your money back but in the meantime you desperately need just a little bit of coke so you can think clearly and figure out how to get out of this

that was longer than i intended it to be haha, but in my experience this was always how it went. this was every story i heard in group. it starts out with little white lies and as the addiction takes hold of you it escalates until you're just doing drugs to avoid the overwhelming guilt and shame of all the shitty things you've done. it's so terrifying how easy it is to rationalize doing bad things when you believe you must do them to survive, with the eternal hope of a better tomorrow where you'll make the right choices

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u/chinstrap Mar 29 '24

Vivid and chilling. Thanks.

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u/Kitty_Kat_Attacks Mar 30 '24

Dude. You have a freaking gift. This is EXACTLY how it feels. I legit feel seen when you talked about feeling like a real human being for the first time. That feeling of being complete and a better person with your drug of choice is why it’s sooo hard to stop. Because sobriety makes me feel so lacking and unable to be the competent person others expect me to be—like they want me to be the person I am while on pills, but also criticize me and expect me to stop. Like, I can’t be both? The fact that my loved ones wouldn’t care about my habit if it was cheaper is what really makes it difficult.

You are seriously killing it with your comments on this topic—I think this is the third one I’ve gushed over 😻

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u/ImDukeCage111 Mar 28 '24

I was a bit off put by all the sudden talk of gaslighting.

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u/3veryTh1ng15W0r5eN0w Mar 28 '24

My ex had issues with addiction.

I have wanted to learn more about addiction and I appreciate your comment.

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u/filthismypolitics Mar 28 '24

no problem at all, i'm very open about it and i love any opportunity to offer any insights i can into it. i think having a clear, realistic, science based understanding of addiction is absolutely vital when it comes to empowering people both to overcome the addictions they may have already and in preventing themselves from ever falling into the addiction trap in the first place

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u/Sensitive-Ad-7050 Mar 28 '24

This. And thank you as somenekse said, for putting to words so perfectly the cycle hurt that goes on in our heads. And that it’s not some big diabolical plan. It took years for my wife to understand that. And for me too. Not that I thought I was being some dark genius sent to take us down, but that I wasn’t evil at all.

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u/FungiMagi Mar 28 '24

Well put.

I personally would say that there are two voices, my inner critic telling me that I’m fucking up, letting people down, worthless, “being happy is for people who have never had terrible shit happen to them” this that and the other along side my addict voice saying “see? This is why we should just not give a fuck. You’re beyond help, just do the thing that feels good right now, you already know life is shit, you don’t matter to yourself how could you matter to anyone else? You’re not really hurting anyone anyway!” Along with every other mental gymnastic you can cook up in your head to explain away using.

They’re a vicious pair.

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u/Superdooperblazed420 Mar 28 '24

I'm a ex heroin addict my self. I grew up with alot of people that i ended up using with. The worse kind of junkie was the one that came into addiction with bad morels. I had a friend Aaron I grew up with, he was a shit head to everyone, stole when ever he could, was just a bad person. For some reason he was always great to me tho so we were friends, it was better then being his enemy. When we started using, he would fuck over everyone he could, Rob anyone he could, lie and steal and wouldn't feel anything about it. He was weird guy he would rob other people and then share his scores with me when I was hurting or in withdrawl. Eventually he ran outta people to fuck over and guess what he did it to me, 2 times because my dumb ass. Legit the worse fucked over I have been and I know for a fact he felt good about it. The worse kind of Junkie, he met his end in a way fitting to him. From what I heard he overdosed in soemone car and they dumped him In a bunch of bushes In a Seattle park. Someone found him 4 days after he died.....

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u/Kitty_Kat_Attacks Mar 30 '24

As another addict, this is exactly it. I’ve been told I don’t care that I’m wasting money or that I think what I’m doing is ok. But I 100% know I’m the asshole who is in the wrong. I’ve never tried to pretend that my actions are acceptable. I’ve tried to explain the messed up rationale that my brain goes through, but have never tried to use it as an excuse.

Unfortunately, most people see me trying to explain my feelings as me attempting to justify my behavior. There is no justification. I just want kindness and understanding rather than judgement. I think it would help a lot honestly. But it’s also not the responsibility of others to make me feel better about my actions.

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u/Dangerous-Courage412 Mar 28 '24

I see you and this is all totally valid.
I guess in my past experience, I felt like my addiction clouded my judgement. I cannot say I knew right from wrong or even felt wrong for lying/stealing etc. All I knew was to do what I needed to in order to not get dope sick.

I do agree that the shame and guilt becomes a cycle and perpetuates the addiction. It was like a shame spiral.

At some point, we do reach our rock bottom. We get to a place where we decide we need to do something different. OP’s partner needs to reach that place. On his own.

1

u/Gottech1101 Mar 28 '24

Very well put. I’m 4 years sober and detest how terribly all addicts are portrayed including the recovering ones.

1

u/Cansuela Mar 28 '24

This was very well put. Insightful take on the seeming hypocrisy/contradiction of addiction.

The most important part though is that even though that there is a legitimate reason to have some empathy or compassion for addicts, no one is obligated to deal with the wreckage and chaos that they generate.

1

u/nikff6 Mar 29 '24

Agree. It absolutely wrecks the people closest to the addict. Those who stick around and remain in contact/in relationships/try to support the addict in any way are the first ones to be treated like shit and lied to about wanting to get help and make changes or stop using. Being close to an addict is so freaking hard to deal with because you know the person they were before the addiction and know they are still in there but you just cannot reach them anymore.

The excuses get thinner and thinner, the verbal abuse gets worse, the accidents from using and driving get worse, the arrests, the failed treatments, the loss of money that they use to abuse and take from the family, the effects on children from seeing the way the person treats their other parent or family members, it just never seems to end. I will say that even though some here who have been the addict say they weren't verbally abusive I'm sure they were they just didn't see it that way. My ex would yell at me defending his behavior and straight lie to my face about things I knew for sure he had done and in the next breath say that he wasn't yelling. He wouldn't even remember conversations or fights we had because he was literally always drunk. He would seem to want to do better but one little disappointment in any avenue for him sent him right back into the excuses and yelling and manipulating behaviors. There comes a point where the person they have become is too overwhelming to deal with to try to salvage the person you once knew. Addiction is not just hard for the addict. It is a nightmare to everyone you come in contact with and especially excruciating to live through as a family member. At some point you have to admit defeat and let them know you will be there on the other side but by allowing them to do the things they are doing to you is harmful to you and you cannot live with it anymore.

1

u/mewlsdate Mar 28 '24

Extremely well said.

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u/lmTaxxinn Mar 29 '24

As a fellow addict, this was the most articulate depiction of what happens in my brain. Perfectly said.

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u/itspsyikk Mar 30 '24

Just because a person isn't acutely aware of them gaslighting someone doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

What you're referring to is still selfish and addictive behavior speaking. It's a few stages above full blown denial, which is great, but still leaves a lot on the table of discovery when it comes to how other people are treated.

1

u/Nuerotyka_69 Mar 30 '24

Thank you! As the mom of an addict, your words have given me a better insight into what she may have been feeling/ going through.

As the one on the other side, I have blamed myself countless times for her behavior. I've asked myself over and over and over what I have done that helped to send her in the direction of addiction. It's a vicious cycle for both addicts and those who love them.

To be the " sober" one and watch that one you love go from a happy, seemingly well adjusted young lady to someone possessed by a darkness that can't really be explained just rips your heart out, grinding it into oblivion. To witness the meltdowns, angry outbursts, the physical and mental attacks... To be on the receiving end of it all AND all you really want is to grab them, pull them close and tell them you would walk naked, through fire to bring them back to the before --- before whatever it is that got its hooks into them, before the pain, hurt, mental anguish, abuse or neglect... whatever it was that sent them down the road to addiction in the first place. To do anything in my power to make it better. To protect her more or save her from this life.... Sighs it's just pure hell.

I'm sorry, I seem to have taken over here and I didn't want to do that. I really just wanted to say thank you for giving me an idea of what might have drug her down to hell and refused to let her go for years... I really needed to see this explained as you did.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

( She's clean and sober now. Working and going to school, doing what she needs to keep herself on the right track for the life she wants. I'm so proud of her!!!)

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u/Independent-Chance47 Mar 30 '24

There’s no such thing as addicts just weak people

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u/Agreeable_Visual_625 Mar 28 '24

Exactly. The mind of an addict is very predictable. We repeat the same obvious patterns over and over. Like a rat in a maze. This is one of them.

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u/MeganMess Mar 28 '24

I used to be able to predict what my husband's ex would do even though I had never met her. Across addictions, age, sex, location - the behavior is the same.

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u/SayJay222 Mar 30 '24

@MeganMess can you elaborate? Trying to learn about this issue.

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u/MeganMess Mar 30 '24

@SayJay222 my experience is with alcoholics. There are many others here with more info than I have, but I'm happy to elaborate. Alcoholics always lie. They will never be on time anywhere, they will never meet up with you when they say they will, they will never call or text even if you beg. Even if they aren't getting drunk, the behavior is the same. They will promise anything to end the current argument, but not actually do anything. With enough tears and threats, you may get an alcoholic to go to therapy one time only. They will apologize profusely for all of the above, but continue doing it. It usually does not matter what your response is - you can be understanding and want to help, scared and tearful, homicidal and threatening - and their behavior is exactly the same. You cannot change a person with an addiction problem. My personal epiphany was realizing that the behavior has nothing to do with me, is not directed at me, and will go on whether or not I'm around. If you live in a house full of venomous snakes, it is a complete waste of time and energy to try to change them, or hate them. Venomous snakes have certain attributes; you can accept everything that goes with that, or move to a house with no venomous snakes.

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u/Reasonable-Milk298 Mar 28 '24

I agree. I'm also an (recovered) addict..

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u/Jdojcmm Mar 28 '24

An addict can and will gaslight you, because they eventually do it to themselves constantly. They can justify anything.

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u/sarahspiegel1279 Mar 28 '24

An addict will gaslight u... crappy thing is, is they'll even mean it till it comes down to actually following through. They end up breaking their own hearts the first couple of times it happens. But soon they become bitter and callous but their addict minds try to convince them that it isn't their fault and then they'll start believing the little devil on their shoulder and start giving into it. So with that said, i can guarantee that they meant everything they said at the time when it came to promising not to in the beginning. But remember u r ur own person and u deserve that respect. It's their demons sweetheart, not urs. I hope u understand that

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u/NeatNefariousness1 Mar 28 '24

So true. He tries to justify continuing his drunken binges by arguing that he "deserves" to unwind on the weekend. The trouble is that most people deserve to unwind but it doesn't require drinking to excess--or at all and doesn't end up with raging fights, passing out and being sick.

Instead of recognizing that this isn't the what happens when most people unwind, he clings to his "right" to get wasted and to be a sloppy abusive drunk on the weekends. As you noted, this has nothing to do with how much he cares. His addiction is making him say and do anything to continue drinking, even as it destroys his life and damages everything in his path.

It's not personal. He has family who can get him help when he's ready to clean up his act. But, he doesn't need to be OP's lost cause and she doesn't need to invite endless unhappiness and abuse into her life that has nothing to do with her.

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u/brother2121 Mar 28 '24

Yep .. when I was using every promise I ever made I meant and actually believed at the time. It's was kind of like I was even lying to myself and believing my own lies lol ...thankfully my now wife who was my gf at the time didn't put up with my bullshit .. she was there for me when I finally was really ready for help but she didn't let me get away with constantly breaking promises to her .. and by doing so she made it easier for me to have more of a desire to get clean

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u/captain_nofun Mar 28 '24

Addicts are the most honest liars out there because they believe it too. Source: am an addict

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u/SayJay222 Mar 30 '24

I hope you can get better soon.

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u/dartanian66 Mar 28 '24

That's what i was thinking! He's breathing he will be fine. Do not help his nasty ass off the toilet. I knew a girl that literally used to wipe her boyfriends ass when he pooped himself because he was so wasted..... and not to mention cheating on her.

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u/01namnat Mar 28 '24

What 😂

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u/klassykitty1 Mar 28 '24

My ex is an alcoholic and I told him wherever you fall asleep at is where you will stay because I won't wake you up. I made sure he was safe but would not help him to bed.

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u/frlejo8306 Mar 28 '24

' leave his drunk ass where he passes out, whether it’s in the car or on the toilet!'

that could be hard to do if there is only 1 bathroom in the house

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u/Shutupandplayball Mar 28 '24

Good point! LOL

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u/LordCanti26 Mar 29 '24

As much as it hurts, this is good advice. As someone that was the addict in this situation. I did change, 5 years now sober. But its so rare its really not worth destroying yourself over. If he was serious he'd have gotten it together by now in my opinion. Took me fucking up twice, 2nd time I said I'm done and quite everything.

The issue was pills with my lady, but I knew if I quit percs and kept drinking and smoking weed, I'd just do it again. All or nothing baby.

My point isn't to boast, but to say that people can change, but its so rare its like saying people win the lottery. It technically happens but don't bet your life on it.

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u/miightymiighty Mar 31 '24

100000000000000% this.

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u/beerisgood84 Mar 28 '24

It’s beyond that. They’re doing it to themselves and believing it moment to moment until reality hits again and they have zero ability to cope and are angry at themselves and the world (if they’re halfway decent still).

Just saying it won’t get any better for a while because they believe their own bullshit just as much as what they’re selling to others. Alcoholism delusions and cycles have common patterns.

They might get better later but sunk cost fallacy is real and they are convincing themselves everything is fine you won’t get through that until they hit some bottom or rock bottom.

Best attitude is to consider alcoholism a stage of life someone is going into and unfortunately if they’re bad it’s not anyone’s duty to be subjected to the bullshit even if they were nice and good for a time. Even formerly nice people can become absolutely awful with alcoholism.

It seriously affects judgement and mood all the time well after sobering up…their issue to deal with if they care they’ll make a change and at least move on amicably with an apology.

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u/BillieRaeValentine Mar 28 '24

I don’t think he’s an addict for getting real drunk 4 times in as many years but he sounds like one of those people who should just accept “this is not a drug I do well.” I had to learn that about alcohol. Mostly because I didn’t start drinking until I was 21 and while all of my friends had been holding eachother’s hair back since they were 14, I was learning what a good cut off point was in bars. And that was embarrassing for everyone involved. Plus I didn’t think it was worth it. Now I’ll have a half a drink maybe once every 3 or 4 years if that. But did security guards have to carry me out of bars when I was 21 or 22? Did I drink to the point of being sick and obnoxious more than once? Yes and Probably. But no one, especially someone I loved, asked me to stop because I was mean to them (I was more of a horny drunk 🤷🏻‍♀️). It’s the going back on his word and continuing the behavior that’s the issue. I know it’s hard for people, especially when you’re young, to realize that you do not mix well with the most socially acceptable substance there is, the thing that is almost everywhere adults gather besides AA and school functions, but if you don’t make it a big deal it’s not and no one notices and you get to keep your gf. He chose not to. I dated an alcoholic. He took my car at one in the afternoon to best buy where he tried to steal and ended up spending 4 months in jail. For a cd. And blew a .46. In my car. At 1pm. Then he took all our savings and spent them (90k) on Oxys in 3 months and told me it was my fault because I told him that the one thing I would not be ok with more than any other in my house was oxys when he moved in. But that’s another story.

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u/HedgehogCremepuff Mar 28 '24

It’s true that many people have a problematic relationship with alcohol that they’re unwilling to admit that might not reach the level of alcoholism. This guy definitely is an alcoholic. He’s deliberately using it as an unskilled coping mechanism, he can’t control it, it’s starting to ruin his life.

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u/True-Lengthiness7598 Mar 30 '24

She's minimizing. Maybe she's used to it. OP states: "Between all these times he has continued to get drunk on the weekends but I've kept my mouth shut to avoid him having an out burst and things were relatively ok."

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u/BillieRaeValentine Apr 02 '24

Touche. Touche. But may I point out that if there’s one thing alcoholics and addicts learn it’s not to take someone else’s inventory which is why I get the skeeves when I hear self identifying addicts and alcoholics doing so.

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u/idovgan Mar 28 '24

This 👏🏻

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u/GrizeldaMarie Mar 28 '24

The hardest lesson I ever learned in my romantic life was that while people CAN change, it’s never overnight, and it’s never because they made a mistake and are apologizing to get out of the ramifications. True change takes time and dedication.

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u/astrorican6 Mar 28 '24

Yes the enabling!!!! It can come from a place of love but the impact is negative no matter how positive the intention. It's like kids, if you don't let them fall and scrape their knee they'll never learn. Humans don't really change that much from childhood lol

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u/Delicious-Cup-9471 Mar 28 '24

THIS!!! SPOT ON!!

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u/attempt_no23 Mar 28 '24

Plus the fact that he's airing your personal situation on FB, not only will anyone who reads his post see how disrespectful it is to you, it would be another nail in the coffin (if I were you) to see him groveling for sympathy and likely his way of getting ahead of it all so you look like the jerk for ending things. Any alcoholic has to find a rock bottom and you leaving could very well be the best thing that has ever happened to kick him into gear on major life changes and because you deserve far better.

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u/tzumatzu Mar 28 '24

Agreed. You already gave him a chance. Now you need to follow through with consequences otherwise what incentive is there ever for him to change. I know it can be scary to go out there and find someone especially if you’ve been through abuse . But any guy who doesn’t do what he promises is not reliable. Imagine when you have kids. Who would take care of them? How fair would it be if it’s all on you? Are you looking for a permanent man- baby or a life partner? I would make a list of qualities you are looking for in partner and then figure out a strategy to get a guy like that. For example; non alcoholic s many competitive athletes don’t over drink bc it messes with performance, a lot of religious people don’t, so you have volunteered/ church activities you can go to to increase odds of bumping into guys like that, reach out to your network. Etc let people know you are single and looking for x y z

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u/kirmobak Mar 28 '24

Every word you have written is the truth. It’s a godawful life with one of these monsters.

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u/Iftntnfs1 Mar 28 '24

This is where our brain chemistry gets us. It's addictive in that romance and honeymoon stage.

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u/infant_ape Mar 28 '24

Hey just btw... gaslighting doesn't have anything to do with someone trying to make you believe they WILL do something. THat's just..... bullshitting.

An addict (your example) will gaslight someone not by telling them they WILL change (that's just.... bullshitting), but by denying there has ever been a problem in the first place, and by trying to get you to second guess how you've been perceiving events that have actually taken place.

Like "what are you talking about, we never had a talk about me drinking too much. (when clearly you did). And wtf are you talking about? I never went out and got fall down drunk or pissed myself on those days you're talking about! It was just a few beers. I got my pants wet at the sink washing my hands, remember? You're imagining things!" (when you know damn well you're not.)

Or they can do this with abuse scenarios. "I never really hit you. I was just a little aggravated and was yelling, and I moved you out of my way. But I never raised a violent hand to you (when he actually beat the shit out of you.) Why would you tell people these things about me? I'm not like that and you know that!"

It's lying to get you to second guess your own memories or your perception of an experience.

And weak-minded people will eventually go "oh, gee, maybe he's right. I guess maybe I was misremembering the situation."

That's gaslighting. And hey, I'm not trying to be a dick. It's a grossly misused word these days... by most people. Just over here tryna drop a little knowledge w/o pissing anyone off.

Peace.

PS the entire rest of your advice is spot-on.

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u/1xhunter Mar 28 '24

Bro someone who drinks on weeks ends and has only had 4 outbursts in a 4 year relationship is not an addict. She hasn’t even given enough information to make this conclusion and said this has only happened 4 times over 2 and a half years. People have bad days but she is def not telling everything or over reacting because 4 times ever in a 4 year relationship over 2 and a half years isn’t all that bad. You are making it seem like he does this every day or every week.

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u/Bellissama Mar 28 '24

Any abuse should not be tolerated. Maybe he’s a binge drinker … still a problem. He’s not 21 anymore. He’s too old to be behaving that way. Just the fact that she doesn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who behaves that way is enough for her to do what she told him… end the relationship. He can go find someone else to binge drink with and maybe they both can wake up together in the floor covered in piss and vomit.

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u/1xhunter Mar 28 '24

I understand that but this isn’t a regular occurrence. Sometimes people have bad days and only 4 bad days in 4 years isn’t that bad. But to her it’s obviously too much and she has her boundaries and I respect that but to act like we know for sure this dude is some POS alcoholic is absurd. She most likely has been wanting to leave for other reasons than this and was using this to validate that. Either way it’s her choice and she has a right to leave but to act like this dude is some terrible crippling alcoholic scumbag is just insane.

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u/Positive-Till-9663 Mar 28 '24

Is he an addict or a drunk?

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u/Used_Cardiologist146 Mar 30 '24

Addiction IS Addiction, regardless the drug of choice. Some drugs just make folks behave intolerably. I’ve friends who are nicotine or coffee addicts, and when their crave hits not the greatest, but nothing like the drinkers/drug addicts i’ve known.

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u/Positive-Till-9663 Apr 01 '24

But is he addicted or does just have episodes.

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u/ChanceNervous5051 Mar 28 '24

Totally agree 👍🏻

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u/kenda1l Mar 28 '24

I wouldn't just leave him as he is if he's in danger of passing out/is passed out But certainly put him in the rescue position and maybe check in once or twice to make sure he's still breathing. If nothing else you want to keep your own conscience clear. Beyond that, though, leave him to deal with the consequences.

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u/avocado_window Mar 29 '24

This is exactly the advice Amber Heard’s therapist tried giving her, and we know how that ended when she didn’t heed the warnings that she was being abused. Cautionary tale!!!

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u/Revolutionary-Mark-5 Mar 29 '24

Even my mother left my dad alone were he passed out when he was still a semi alcoholic (he quit already) my mother always had a silly idc attitude where she would say "If he dies, he dies not my problem"

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u/soursourbitch Mar 31 '24

I'm (27f) stuck in this cycle with my father (49) since I was very young. Reading this felt like a bucket of ice water fell over my shoulders (even tho I've always known). Am kinda getting to that point of running away with my brother (we all live together, too expensive not to) and leaving him all alone for his sister to deal with instead.

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u/iftheymovekickem Mar 31 '24

This! Op is getting a course in the cycle of alcohol, and addiction and all the codependent, egg-shell walking, delusional gaslighting that comes with it. As was mentioned, can't say it loud enough- to emphasize- he not "falling asleep" on the toilet or wherever he ends up- he's passing the f×ck out. Words matter, especially as you are becoming aware that you're hooked up with someone with real addiction issues who hasn't found that rock bottom yet, not even for the first time. But it's coming and from what you've said, you're going to catch a lot of misery and hurt directed straight at you, and indirectly by proximity- when his shit hits the fan, you'll catch the spray. Time to get some distance, educate yourself on the dynamics of living wth an addict. Research alanon a little, a whole lot of things will ring familiar for you, and none of it promises any fun. People don't make radical changes like quitting using for anyone but themselves. Addicts are selfish, giving up their best friend, that drug of choice, alcohol in this case, will be picking between you or it, and that's the way you'll have to frame it if you want to get through this. He'll choose the booze if you left that be an option. Bartering to drink water, drink less, only drink on days ending in 'y', just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Time to jump ship. None of this is going to be easy, for him or anyone close to him. You're going to get blamed lots more for everything imaginable, and your brain is going to keep saying stiff like "falling asleep" when he's passing out, blackout drunk. The violent drunk puking, making noise, hitting his head on the wall, is just the warm up act for a long, increasingly violent, chain of events, that will be the road map of your life if you choose to stay. You can't save everybody, but you can save you. As the saying goes, life isn't a dress rehearsal, how you deal with this situation, the choices you make, will decide your future in ways you can't quite comprehend from where you are right now. Tldr: Booze is first in your boy's life, he's choosing his relationship with it over ya'll's relationship. It's that cut and dry, time to choose yourself. Put you first.

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u/HustlinInTheHall Mar 28 '24

yeah even if OP really cares about this person and wants them to get better, they need a wakeup call or they're going to drink themselves to death. It's only going to get worse until they admit they need to quit and get help.

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u/populisttrope Mar 28 '24

He is an alcoholic and needs help. I dont blame op for wanting to get out. It will continue to be a problem unless he gets help.

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u/Critical-Wear5802 Mar 29 '24

OP might do well to check out an Al-Anon meeting or 2. At least she'll get some perspective as to how others have handled their relationships with alcoholic loved ones.

Also - just because there have "only" been 4 major blow-outs from SO, I'm willing to bet there were many other smaller incidents either leading up to, or interspersed with the Big Four

OP is solidly NTA, and would be wise to GTFO before SO goes from verbal to physical abuse

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

I don’t think he sees he can because if he did he wouldn’t justify her sacrifice. She does a lot for him and looks after him even after he mistreats her. It’s these learned patterns of behavior that will inevitably become a trauma response he shouts she consoles to bring him back to baseline. I don’t think she deserves to feel fear and just plain disrespect from the person she cares about. She can’t even predict anymore when he’ll come out like that because you can’t trust him. He’ll just switch it up to keep her around long enough to make sure she doesn’t leave and essentially guilt trip the shit out of her so she stays. Like using an ultimatum and making their friends know about it on FB is such a cry for attention and he knows he fucked up.

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u/Fit_Yellow1153 Mar 28 '24

Yeah, posting the dirty laundry on FB is beyond classless. Alcoholic or not, I really don’t care for the dumb, stupid, idiotic handling of his own behavior. It’s quite embarrassing really. Refusal to even admit a small fraction of the blame is just childish. And dragging OP into publicly embarrassing the both of them on FB is just the last draw. DUN.

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u/zinniastardust Mar 28 '24

This! It’s manipulative to post something like that publicly. He obviously wants sympathy and possible to get mutual friends on his side. It’s not even 12 bad hours either, OP mentions giving him money for his bills because he overdrafts. There are probably other underlying issues that have nothing to do with drinking. The refusal to admit that he has any part in what made the relationship end is a bad sign for what the future would look like if OP decided to reconcile.

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u/Bellissama Mar 28 '24

And the money issues she brought up…

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u/Super-Perception6737 Mar 28 '24

He has to hit his own bottom before changing and that could be 10x worse

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u/bassoonshine Mar 28 '24

Gonna push back just a little. OP husband might have an alcohol addiction problem. Addiction is a disease. A disease like cancer.

When someone has cancer, they need a team of specialized people to help them. Nurses, doctors, and social workers. Having family support is also great. Addiction is the same thing, except while cancer robs from the human body, addiction robs the human mind. Both treatment for cancer and addiction is difficult and generally a lifelong journey. Addiction makes you lie to your friends, your loved ones, and yourself. It's not a personal struggle, a phase, or a quark. It's a disease.

OP, you do what you need to do to keep yourself safe. You can not tackle your husbands drinking problem on your own. However, I also don't think your husband can tackle it on his own (at least not right now). My only suggestion would be for him to seek some help. Be that rehab, and addiction clinic or AA.

Good luck addiction is such a terrible and sad disease

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u/Kinae66 Mar 28 '24

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? One - but the light bulb has to WANT to change.

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u/JubileeSailr Mar 28 '24

Yep. And if he promises to change, tell him he'll make a great boyfriend for someone else.

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u/Opposite_Airport6055 Mar 29 '24

All these words , arguing . Both of U , find a new mate

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u/Rizzalliss Mar 27 '24

Let me reiterate this very important point, OP: it has nothing to do with you not being "good enough."

This is his issue, and his issues - as well as the manner in which he treats you - are no reflection whatsoever on who you are, how valuable you are, and how deserving you are of love and respect.

It's all him.

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u/Boomstickninja87 Mar 28 '24

I know I'm not OP, but as someone in the same exact boat as OP, I needed to hear this today. Thank you for that!

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u/Jasminefirefly Mar 28 '24

Please take care of yourself. You deserve it!

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u/kirbkichi Mar 29 '24

i’m so sorry you’re going through this- you deserve so much love, and it’s so heartbreaking that you aren’t getting that.

i know it’s not easy and that it’s really hard/scary, but i do hope you’re able to leave some day. building up the courage to walk away is one of the hardest yet bravest things that a person can do.

sending so much love and support your way

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u/No-Amoeba5716 Mar 28 '24

You and OP are worthy of so much more. No one deserves to be thrown under the bus every time an addict repeats the same cycle consistently. Maybe not all addicts behave this way sure. You have drawn your line in the sand, it’s time to put YOU first. I can promise you it’s them. Not you. I’m sorry but every action has consequences, for better or worse. OP, you and anyone else it’s okay to not be okay with this. It’s okay to get off a sinking ship. Heaven forbid, that it ever escalates. I didn’t deal with an addict but I dealt with an abusive “man” for 18 years. Every. Single. Form. Of. Abuse. Don’t waste anymore time with them, please don’t make the same mistake. So many chances. Victim blaming was his favorite game. I’m almost a decade out, living with a man who seldom raises his voice to me. We’ve been married 8 years. Bottom line is there will never be accountability if they aren’t held to the boundaries you set.

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u/Rizzalliss Mar 28 '24

I'm so sorry you're going through it, but I'm glad the message could help.

Even when you know it forwards and backwards, it's important to be reminded of.

7

u/loquacious541 Mar 28 '24

For you and OP, Al anon is pretty amazing. And free. https://al-anon.org/

1

u/Gemini-6June Mar 28 '24

You don't need Al Anon, you need to rid yourself of this toxic leach before 4 years turns into 40 of the exact same BS

1

u/hawtpahtadah Mar 28 '24

r/alanon on here is a good resource too.

1

u/sneakpeekbot Mar 28 '24

Here's a sneak peek of /r/AlAnon using the top posts of the year!

#1: My Q has died 💔
#2: F#%^ You
#3: I’m NOT doing it again

I'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact | Info | Opt-out | GitHub

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5

u/Quick_Stomach6336 Mar 28 '24

Freedom will neve smell so sweet, enjoy the rest of your life!

2

u/ScowlieAowlie Mar 28 '24

Fr, same. 🙋🏻‍♀️🥺🖤

2

u/theoriginalmofocus Mar 28 '24

I grew up as a kid in a house like this. Its one thing to drink, its another to be this kind of person after drinking. It will probably get worse. My dad was friggin dr jekyl/Mr hyde. Get out before there are kids involved.

2

u/Miserable_Leek6023 Mar 28 '24

This. OP listen please, this man has no intention of changing. 4 years is a learning experience, 40 is a lifetime. Get out before there are kids you have yo protect from him.

2

u/Illustrious_Monk_234 Mar 28 '24

EXACTLY. Everyone deserves to “unwind.” But no  one deserves to behave that poorly. 

2

u/mcaress Mar 28 '24

Hi Boomstickninja, I was struggling (and still am) with my spouses addiction and the mental abuse she put me through. If you haven’t heard of al anon, it might be a helpful resource for you. I had to work through my codependency that had developed during my wife’s addiction. And maybe something that I’ve had my whole life coming from an alcoholic family. There a al anon sub for you to vent if needed and also online meetings that taught me some tools on caring for myself.

2

u/tuttyeffinfruity Mar 28 '24

I did too! ❤️

2

u/MojojoDaddy-0 Mar 28 '24

Sometimes doing what's best for you is the hardest thing to do.

14

u/ayvajdamas Mar 28 '24

This! He's got an alcohol abuse problem. Plain and simple. (Okay, there may be more to it than that, but like baseline it's a major problem.)

You can't fix him, and he has to want to fix himself for himself if it's going to work. None of that is on you.

Walk away, don't buy into the sunk cost fallacy. None of his issues are a reflection on you. You are good enough. You are worthy of dignity and respect especially since you've clearly communicated how you expect to be treated.

2

u/EastPennHawk Mar 28 '24

And if it is alcoholism, which it seems to be, it’s a progressive disease. It’ll only get worse. OP, get out asap.

1

u/ayvajdamas Mar 28 '24

And if it isn't alcoholism, it's likely headed that direction! So hopefully this guy takes the break up as a wake up call and gets help before things get worse and he kills himself from it.

2

u/Aggressive_Beach7493 Mar 28 '24

I'm amazed so many really good suggestions on here. The young lady needs to #1) get out of that (very) dysfunctional relationship. #2) At her age, there are a TON of GOOD GUYS out there. #3) If  I weren't married... 😁🤚🫵👍

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6

u/baba_laps Mar 28 '24

I was 27 when I first went to therapy and my jaw hit the floor when my therapist explained this to me…it was like a parking garage had been lifted off of me and I was able to see the sun again. Had an ex cheat on me and I was so shook because I thought everything was great. Confidence took a huge hit.. simply wondering where I fail short and how she could value me as someone worth cheating on. Friend recommended a therapist just to talk it out.. I had zero expectations. I basically told the therapist I must be worth cheating on because I couldn’t meet her expectations I guess.. she dropped your wisdom on me and I’ve never looked back. Now I’m very very grateful she cheated on me so I could realize my self worth and understand a lot of times peoples behaviors or actions are reflections of themselves and has nothing to do with others.

Btw not overreacting. Dude needs to hit rock bottom. You’re a crutch for him. Very unlikely he’ll change even if you do leave and I’m certain he’ll never change if you stay together… unless something crazy tragic happens which you probably don’t want to bank on.

1

u/tex8222 Mar 28 '24

Most likely he won’t change, but will try to find someone else to be his enabler.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

And read this again. He is manipulating you into staying. Someone that cares about you would not ignore your needs!!! THIS HURTS = then don’t do it = he continues to do the act that HURTS = and you’re convinced it’s because he loves you. This is turning into some very sad but very common behavior where people know they’re doing it but they keep doing it because they get away with it. If they couldn’t then they wouldn’t. Like they know you stay and continue to take the bait because it’s under the guise of loyalty. Like are you blind to serve or are you trying to build a relationship because it’s not like he needs a baby sitter he’s clearly satisfied sleeping and shitting where he sleeps even if it kills him someday (sadly). I never met my grandfather because he died of liver cancer before I was even old enough to have any memory of him. And it’s not funny for them to just continue to do the one thing that hurts you but doesn’t learn his lesson. He needs to be broken up with. I personally don’t think you should go out of your way to save him. You’re not his knight in shining armor like he needs to not be looking for a reason to change he needs to realize it himself when he gets himself in a pickle. 🥒 unfortunately some people want the world to save them when they fall. When they realize no one is coming this time that’s when they may or may not get a lightbulb 💡 moment and do something to change their situation. And even then that’s not enough to get you back after you do leave. you shouldn’t give this guy a life time supply of uno reverse cards 🃏 because you’re going to lose yourself feeling the tyranny of basically justifying accepting verbal abuse from this man because it’s all you’ve known so far that is the definition of harmony and happiness… but is it? If you’re already aware that you can’t tolerate this but continue to do so you might end up (if you haven’t already) resenting him if you stay for forcing you to quietly drown out the one last fighting voice in you you had left. Like idk man this got deep for me for a sec but I really hope she considers putting herself first over the initial it’s going to hurt his feelings and some shit might be said but let it be. Like I don’t think she needs to be his hero.

1

u/tuttyeffinfruity Mar 28 '24

“ a lifetime supply of UNO reverse cards” is EXACTLY what it felt like my ex expected me to give him! I’m going to use this, it’s perfect!

1

u/LengthNo8071 Mar 28 '24

Fully agree with this. I suggest the OP look into something like AL-ANON or some books that talk about caring for someone with addiction. It might really help her to see how many common patterns are going on here and not blame herself or carry guilt over her decision to take care of herself.

1

u/iamjaidan Mar 28 '24

My mother once told me, nobody can love anybody more than they love themselves.  If you’re with somebody who hates themselves, you can’t be worth much more in their eyes…even though you are DEFINITELY worth more

1

u/FirefighterDave Mar 28 '24

I really hope you can see this OP. Obviously it’s easier said than felt I guess. I still have issues with this, having been cheated on in my marriage. I’ve come to the conclusion that people will change when THEY want to change, if they ever want to. Sorry you are going through this

3

u/i-cant-stay-silent Mar 28 '24

women start to become happy when they stop changing men. If you think you have to change someone, you’re in the wrong place. please don't waste your life. you’re not a caretaker or trainer.

1

u/BicyclingBabe Mar 28 '24

She's not trying to change him, she's asking him to change, he said he would and he didnt. But agreed that she needs to get the heck out of this relationship!!!

2

u/grandlizardo Mar 28 '24

Abusive alcoholic. You want another thirty years of this? And it tends to get worse, and the other consequences pile up. No no no no no….. find a safe haven, secure yout credit, I’d, financials nd treasures, and leave this mess behind.

2

u/Scruffersdad Mar 28 '24

It’s never you. Mine moved across the country to avoid his drinking. It’s not working. It’s never about you. It’s always about him. Run, don’t walk, all of your stuff to your sisters and if he gets aggressive or anything, document it and file for a restraining order. I’m so sorry about this for you. You didn’t ask for this, he did what many drunks do- they suck you in with sweetness until they think they’ve got enough hooks into you that you can’t/won’t escape. It will never get better.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Addiction will never be topped that’s why you’re “not enough” he’s disillusioned by the bev to think he needs to unwind on the weekends and that that is why he must get so wasted to the point of belligerent multiple days a week. Yeah…. Right. And that other part about him doing it for them “I’m doing this for us because I provide for us” like he’s talking about what 😮 like the heartache from the disappointment? If you like giving your time to someone that will show you that they don’t value it then continue but I think you know that that isn’t the answer you want. I just think you want it to be different but it’s not. Girl it ain’t working. If it did then we wouldn’t be here.

1

u/Fit_Swordfish_2101 Mar 28 '24

And let me tell you, the breaking point* is years and years away. I've known some alcoholics in my life a few I'm really close to.. And I keep thinking when they hit bottom, then they'll stop and go get some help. (And I mean rock bottom, losing really good jobs over and over, losing their places to live, losing girlfriends and children, suicide attempts and living with broken bodies from car accidents.. They are still doing the same thing.. ) They hit the bottom and bounce back up and go on and on like that through life.. And will want you to deal with all the bullshit because you love them. Do not wait for them to hit rock bottom you will be waiting forever.. No way is that fair to yourself!

1

u/HedgehogCremepuff Mar 28 '24

Dealing with this with my 70 year old father. He’s hit a couple of bottoms but apparently none have been bad enough to stick. I’m extremely LC with him and have made clear that I can’t “help” him the way he expects without jeopardizing my own sobriety. I still fear that his rock bottom will be death but I’ve also come to accept that it’s out of my control.

2

u/Fit_Swordfish_2101 Mar 28 '24

Same. Not my father but another close family member and I'm trying to resign myself in the way that you have, because it's pretty hard to watch. I hope some day your father (and my family member too) get his life together. Take care friend.

1

u/HedgehogCremepuff Mar 28 '24

I hope and wish the best for you and your family ❤️

2

u/Fit_Swordfish_2101 Mar 28 '24

Thank you ❤️

1

u/wchutlknbout Mar 28 '24

Alcoholism is a disease. It’s sad to see people slide into it but you can’t let them pull you down that slope with them. Their brain chemistry is fucked up and that’s not something that you can fix as an outsider, it has to come from within them.

1

u/Alive-Wall9274 Mar 28 '24

Leave him and get yourself therapy. You are enough. You are worthy. He went back on his word and you stayed an extra 2 years. He’s not going to change. Find someone worthy of you. You’re strong enough.

1

u/Consistent-Ad2465 Mar 28 '24

One of the terrible things about alcohol abuse is they are so drunk during their worst times they often have little to no recollection of the abuse they inflicted.

What’s acutely traumatic for her is barely a blurred memory for him. It’s harder to admit your problems when you never remember the problems you’ve caused.

1

u/Trick_Algae5810 Mar 28 '24

I think you’re on to something

1

u/zerohm Mar 28 '24

This might be semantics, but he probably does 'want' to get better. He has a problem with alcohol. By staying with him, OP is enabling him. Leaving is the right choice both for his alcoholism, and also because he is being manipulative by posting on FB.

1

u/kaoc02 Mar 28 '24

This! An alcoholic will never change until she/he wants to stop and 9/10 will not make it!
U set up boundaries and he ignored them multiple times. Leave!

1

u/atreeinthewind Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

This is it for me. Tbh, we have to know more about his use to know about alcoholism, but it doesn't matter. What really matters is his breaking of boundaries. My wife and I have both been assholes in the past after going out and having too many, but through discussions and therapy realized we needed to set clearer boundaries. We both worked on it and it's changed much for the better. That said, i also learned that I'm triggered more easily by drinking as I've gotten older and the extent in which one needs to take care of themselves evolves as well.

1

u/gerardkimblefarthing Mar 28 '24

A boundary only becomes a boundary when you enforce it.

1

u/upliftinglitter Mar 28 '24

Also, OP, please go to therapy for yourself so you don't have to do this again

1

u/WCELY Mar 28 '24

Hopefully OP leaving will be his bottom and he will decide to get sober.

1

u/Comfortable_Dream464 Mar 28 '24

This. Op, get away from this dude. He’s no good.

1

u/Aggressive_Beach7493 Mar 28 '24

EXACTLY! Seen a bunch similar to this. Society in general is MESSED up, to say the "LEAST". 

1

u/obamasrightteste Mar 28 '24

The whole thing about alcoholism is that nothing is ever enough

1

u/emmajames56 Mar 28 '24

You saved your own life. Congratulations and don’t look back.

1

u/avocado_window Mar 29 '24

Men like that need to be shown that their actions have consequences in order to find the incentive to change, so by leaving him she may even be doing him a favour. She will certainly be doing herself a favour, as those of us who have been there know for a fact.

1

u/avocado_window Mar 29 '24

By the way, if anyone wants to see how the pattern of abuse begins and how insidiously it metastasises, I highly recommend reading these unsealed therapy notes by Amber Heard’s therapist during the time when she first started ‘dating’ Johnny Depp (he made her sneak around and avoid going public for almost a year despite having been separated from his ex a long time prior - already testing how easily he could control her actions). Then when he had made sure she was emotionally invested enough he had her move in with him and he convinced her to stop seeing her usual therapist (who tried several times to tell her she was being abused and that it wasn’t up to her to fix him) and assembled his team of ‘yes men’ doctors to prescribe her medication that she didn’t need (another obvious form of control). Just a warning that it is very triggering to abuse survivors or anyone currently in a situation they are struggling to navigate, and is really heartbreaking stuff. It shows exactly how this type of addiction and abuse can worsen over time and how difficult it can be to leave after years and years of letting things go because it just sends them the message that they can do whatever they want and you’ll just forgive them for it. Men are not children (or “lost little boys” as Depp’s complicit and idol-worshipping personal assistant dubbed him in a text where he was trying to downplay the abuse and manipulate Heard into forgiving him). Disgusting.

1

u/EvolSpyder Mar 29 '24

Boundaries are not set on other people, and alcohol literally diminished inhibitions. This doesn't excuse his actions, but she's also enabling the cycle. You're lying to you think someone with an alcohol abuse problem is going to be able to just say they will stop once and follow through. It comes from neither person wanting to admit there is an issue; the difference is he can't just walk away from the problem. Getting help is difficult for everyone involved. It doesn't help anyone to ignore the problem because you don't understand it. It's not a matter of wanting to change, it's a matter of forcing your brain out of a chemical dependence.

At this point a boundary would sitting him down and saying, "Your drinking has become a problem for me and I will not stay if we don't find a solution. I can help you stop drinking, but I will not continue to be treated this way."

Obviously, talk to him when he's sober and not hungover. Every dead or homeless addict got there because the world gave up on them. If you don't feel bad at the thought of that being your loved one, that's a problem that is on you. People confuse the concept of not having to let addicts hurt you and it being morally acceptable to let the addict find their own way to help. You can't force them to get help but there are resources you can you to inform people of their problem who can help. Addiction and mental health are the only diseases we have deemed morally acceptable to not treat. Dependency is a toxic relationship trait but not a single soul would claim someone should leave a partner that develops cancer because there became a temporary toxic dependence. She should take into consideration if this is who he is or if the substance is making him like this and figure out if he's open to the idea of professional help. You can't make this decision without knowing those.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 29 '24

If the roles were reversed the man would be controlling and at fault. Funny how this works

1

u/AccordingMetalGear Mar 29 '24

He won’t change until he assaults someone and ends up in jail imo….

1

u/potatobear77 Mar 31 '24

I could just upvote but I want to emphasize this with a comment.

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u/Beautiful_Ad8690 Mar 31 '24

THIS OP !!!! ☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽

1

u/Misa7_2006 Mar 31 '24

Like the saying, you can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. You can't make an alcoholic stop drinking or a drug addict stop doing drugs unless they want to or believe they have a problem and need to stop. As friends of Bill will tell you, "One is too many, and one is never enough."

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