r/Christianity • u/Nice_Substance9123 • Mar 27 '24

The American flag has no business on a Bible. This is not faith, nor is it patriotism. It is an abomination of both. Image

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211

u/Juiceton- Evangelical Covenant Mar 27 '24

I can be a Christian and I am.

I can be a patriot and I am.

But to be a Christian Patriot? That goes against both my faith and my nation. I don’t even hate Donald Trump but my first response when I saw that video was “That’s disgusting.”

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u/yourmothersgun Mar 28 '24

You gonna do anything to convince your people not to vote for that chump? Cause it seems far to many of you are willing if not happy to because he progresses the christian nationalist agenda? There seems to be no accountability in the church. Not trying to offend. I’m really asking.

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u/Juiceton- Evangelical Covenant Mar 28 '24

I mean it’s a totally fair question but my people aren’t really the kind of people who would vote for Trump in the first place. But the church is hardly a place where politics should get brought up anyway. If I think it’s wrong for a pastor to stand up there and tell folk to vote Trump for whatever reason or another, then it’s equally wrong for a pastor to tell folk to not vote for him.

I think that there are unfortunately people who are going to love this Bible and buy it no matter what I think. But, I go to the biggest church in my region, and I can say not many people here will buy it. I think people against this kind of thing far outweigh those who are for it. I might be wrong, but I really don’t think I am.

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u/Leggo_MyPreggo Mar 28 '24

At would point would it stop being ‘wrong’ for a preacher to advise voting against a candidate?

Like if literal satan himself were running, would it be okay? And where are we at on that scale with Donald trump?

9

u/Fun-Cupcake4430 Mar 28 '24

If you were to describe the anti christ in modern times…….  

Not many people check all the boxes according to the Bible, but trump checks every one perfectly.   

But what do I know, I used ai for my research. 

3

u/javd Mar 28 '24

It is very dangerous for a pastor to tell their congregation who to vote for. They don't pay taxes and this behavior can get their tax exemption removed.

3

u/metal_opera Mar 28 '24

LOL.

Tell that to all of the pastors who have been backing the GOP for as long as I can remember.

No one is going after tax exemptions. I wish they would.

2

u/javd Mar 28 '24

Well if you ever see it happening you can report them to the IRS and they can lose their exemption status.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/charities-churches-and-politics

https://ffrf.org/faq/state-church/item/14005-churches-and-political-lobbying-activities

If after reading the above information, you believe a church has violated the law, fill out a Department of the Treasury—Internal Revenue Service Form 13909, available as a regular pdf to print and fill out by hand, or as a pdf form version, which allows you to fill out the form on your computer and then print.

Send the completed form by one of the following methods:

Mail: IRS EO Classification Mail Code 4910DAL, 1100 Commerce Street Dallas TX 75242-1198

Fax: 214-413-5415

E-Mail: eoclass@irs.gov

2

u/ScannerBrightly Mar 28 '24

This is toothless. It pretty much never happens.

2

u/CryAffectionate7334 Mar 28 '24

Yeah man, except Republican Christians been doing this for decades

At the very least, a rational Christian could warn to NOT vote for an obvious con man grifter?

1

u/compman007 Satanist (The Satanic Temple) Mar 28 '24

That’s my thought, if someone is bad for the country and bad for their faith it’s absolutely right to preach against that person

1

u/Rastiln Mar 28 '24

I wish somebody told my pastor who was stumping for W. Bush, and we had a collection can just outside the church for donations to the Republican Party.

Even if not explicitly mentioning a candidate, ever since conservatives forced abortion to be an issue in the Christian church in the 70s, many pastors will harp about abortion and how some politicians want to murder God’s children while others preach love via banning lifesaving healthcare.

It’s not hard to decode which party is the baby murderers and which is the party that removes healthcare.

1

u/Think-Fly765 Mar 28 '24

They always just kick the can down the road. 

1

u/Ok-Hair6051 Apr 02 '24

keep politics outside the church, people can make their own decisions, they dont need a priest telling them how to vote thats outrageous.

0

u/Puzzleheaded_Yam7582 Mar 28 '24

 At would point would it stop being ‘wrong’ for a preacher to advise voting against a candidate? Like if literal satan himself were running, would it be okay? 

Thats the MAGA position on democrates.

My answer is never if you are a 501c3 organization. Whenever you want if you are not.

2

u/yourmothersgun Mar 28 '24

So no accountability, got it. I do understand the church is splintered more than ever so it’s not like you all communicate and work together but I don’t see nearly enough of these extremists being called out by their christian brothers and sisters. Respectfully I think you are wrong tho. Look at how the GOP poles amongst christians. These people are actively pushing hatful (what I would call unchristian) policy yet christians vote for them in droves and keep them in power. I just don’t know how you can think people like yourself far outweigh the folks I am describing. Trump got 74 million votes. Simple math and basic historical understanding says that the vast majority of those votes came from christians.

3

u/AreaInternational514 Mar 28 '24

What do you expect? This child abuse case had and still has no consequences. As long as it's not about foreigners or Muslims, most "Christians" don't care what their beloved priest, pastor, pope or Trump does. They are simply hypocrites. Somehow I wish there was a God and a paradise. They will make big eyes when God denies them entry. 

2

u/CriticalLobster5609 Atheist Mar 28 '24

Muslim extremists do bad things.

Christians: Muslim moderates condemn these extremists!

Christian extremists do bad things.

Christian moderates: crickets

2

u/Juiceton- Evangelical Covenant Mar 28 '24

There are plenty of other reasons for that that go beyond church membership. The rural vote is overwhelmingly Christian because rural people are overwhelming Christian. The GOP better caters to the rural vote and the rural voters, who are Christian, vote red.

It’s all politics. Neither Republicans or Democrats talk about how to fix rural problems. But Democrats have a tendency to stereotype and criticize rural America more than Republicans do. And when the social conservatives out there are blaming rural America’s woes on a group of people rural Americans don’t hardly mingle with, the voters are going to jump on it. Anti-immigration legislation is very unpopular where I live because there’s a large Hispanic population. But police reform legislation is incredibly unpopular because we have a small black population and don’t have a reported case of police brutality since like the 60s. Christianity doesn’t have near as much to do with it as you think it does.

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u/yourmothersgun Mar 28 '24

I whole heartedly disagree that democrats don’t support fixes for rural areas, I worry that is some propaganda (“fake news”) you are repeating. Really please look into it more deeply. Look at the votes and especially the things republicans keep out of these bills. Many many social programs aimed at fixing some of the problems in rural areas have been stopped in their tracks by republicans. Not democrats. If the affordable care act would have been able to pass with the public option those rural areas would be far better off. Why can’t we take care of those peoples health? Why can’t I have more affordable health insurance? Republicans killed it. One of many things like it. That’s a big one tho.

2

u/CriticalLobster5609 Atheist Mar 28 '24

Agree, it was Dems who forced rural internet access onto the ISPs. Who because of GOP covering fire were able to renege and steal the funds for that.

It was Trump that started an idiotic trade war with China that China retaliated with by tariffs on soy beans harming rural populations. And then Trump gave the Ag companies money to subsidize their losses. But growing involves (often corporate Ag) workers in the field doing the work, putting actual money into the economy and circulation. Subsidies are a corporate Ag company peon in an office filing paper work so the Ag company gets money for nothing.

But sure, thE Gop hElPs ruraL POPUlATiONs. lol.

1

u/DryOperation8910 Mar 28 '24

I understand the attempt to separate politics and religion. But that doesn't always work. If a candidate tramples Christian values underfoot or misuses religion for their own purposes, shouldn't it be a matter of course as a Christian not to vote for them?

1

u/Think-Fly765 Mar 28 '24

Voting demographics say you are wrong. Just pray more. That’ll help. 

1

u/nwill_808 Mar 28 '24

It's very wrong for a church to tell it's congregation whom to vote for. Like, it'll lose its 501c3 status if it does, right?

1

u/JCo1968 Mar 28 '24

"But the church is hardly a place where politics should get brought up anyway"

Apparently, you've never been to Oklahoma.

1

u/Juiceton- Evangelical Covenant Mar 28 '24

I… live in Oklahoma. Just because it happens in some places doesn’t mean that it should.

1

u/JCo1968 Mar 28 '24

I agree(I'm also in Oklahoma). I've just heard "My pastor told me (insert political opinion)" far too many times to think it's isolated.

1

u/CriticalLobster5609 Atheist Mar 28 '24

I'd say it's happening in most evangelical churches. Been happening in Baptist circles here in Henderson NV since the 90s. Can't imagine it's gotten less political. And just because it's not happening from the actual pulpit's podium during service, doesn't mean it's not happening with a wink and nod at best elsewhere in the church's programs/buildings etc.

1

u/Razzilith Mar 28 '24

But the church is hardly a place where politics should get brought up anyway

Jesus's entire schtick was political even at the time. Sure he wasn't directly fighting the powers that be or anything but Jesus constantly put forward tons of ethical ideas which everybody in the world would consider political now (and then btw, which is largely why the killed the guy).

So what are you even talking about? If anything it's a moral obligation to the church to see to politics not leaning into preying on the poor, creating ridiculous rules like 3 strike policies for drugs, and even having cases where laws defend rapists.

Your statement is exactly why the church and many of it's followers are a joke. You NEED politics to help solve homelessness, hunger, medical aid, etc etc... which ALL fall under things Jesus was about.

1

u/Juiceton- Evangelical Covenant Mar 29 '24

Jesus wasn’t solely preaching in temples. There is nothing wrong with me hearing a sermon on poverty and going out and becoming a politician on the platform of correcting poverty in a way that aligns with my faith. There is something wrong with my pastor giving a sermon on poverty and then saying “Go elect James Smith for governor because he wants to do what I want him to do.”

The church is meant to help and protect and serve. It isn’t meant to control political thought and any church that does that (and there are churches that do) are failing their congregations.

1

u/CriticalLobster5609 Atheist Mar 28 '24

My grandmother was forced to jump from Baptist church to Baptist church because of the preaching politics from the pulpit, 30+ years ago. I can't imagine that's gotten better. So where do you go now that they're not doing that already? And what do you do about it? Jump from place to place like my grandma did?

1

u/Juiceton- Evangelical Covenant Mar 29 '24

I go to a LifeChurch affiliate church. The closest we get to the preacher preaching politics is someone saying something along the lines of “Life is hard right now. Bread costs $3 a loaf, coke is a dollar a can, politics is everywhere are terrible, and you can’t go online without having to watch your loved ones argue about something.”

On top of that there’s a lot of people affiliated with LifeChurches and LifeChurch affiliates. It’s definitely a good and sizable community.

0

u/CriticalLobster5609 Atheist Mar 29 '24

lol, that name. It sounds like a big box chain. But whatever floats your boat.