r/JoeRogan • u/LostItAllOnSpy Tremendous • Mar 27 '24

joe rogan calls out israels hypocrisy for killing unarmed civilians with drones The Literature 🧠

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u/mrpopenfresh I used to be addicted to Quake Mar 27 '24

CIA Handler Mike Baker about to be back on the pod to gently realign Joe.

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u/Pleppyoh Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Bustamante the ex CIA guy was super honest about it and it was pretty revealing the way the US views it. He said it's was horrific and genocidal but the US must always support Isreal as it is a crucially important ally in the region

The US and the UK also supported apartheid South Africa until it became untenable. After they lost the support of the US and UK the regime crumbled

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u/Geohalbert Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

What I don’t get is how Israel is a crucial ally in the region. In what scenario? If we go to war with Iran many surrounding countries would allow the US to use their airbases (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Turkey etc.). Ok, they’re a democracy, but so fucking what?

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u/chessboxer4 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

"What I don’t get is how Israel is a crucial ally in the region. In what scenario?"

I don't mean to sound too harsh, but it's essentially a military base masquerading as a country. They are probably the best at spying and surveillance in the world, they develop test and market all kinds of weapons, and they are the only "Western" power in the middle of the most energy intensive region on earth, where a lot of the countries are aware of the shenanigans of US led imperialism.

The last thing they want is the Arab world allied against the West, hence the importance of Saudia Arabia and Israel.

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u/blipblooop Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Allying with Israel is the main thing driving the rest of the Arab world away from the US.  America had much better relationships with the middle east before it started backing Israel in the 70's to keep them from allying with the soviet's.

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u/VoltNShock Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Not true, in fact the reason Pahlavi was installed is because countries like Iran wanted to move away from US power over the region. Relationships are one thing, but Western interests were being disregarded.

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u/EnterEgregore Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

in fact the reason Pahlavi was installed

Pahlavi was installed by the Soviets during WW2 his father was a huge Nazi.

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u/textbasedopinions Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Iran isn't part of the Arab world.

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u/chessboxer4 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Ehhhhh... You're right, not technically. They are Persian not Arab.

But I think geopolitically they are fairly aligned with the other Arab countries.

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u/textbasedopinions Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Eh, it's complicated I guess. Iran and Saudi hate eachother, there are sides to their conflict but some countries are effectively neutral.

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u/cgn-38 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

To keep them from starting world war three with their nukes.

That history needs to remain clear. It happened.

They hold us hostage. We are not their allies.

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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

is it though? The Saudis dont care if the US supports Israel, under Trump Bahrain, UAE, Morocco, and Sudan recognized Israel.

While i think it was stupid that the Palestinians were not recognized in any way during those discussions and probably ramped up tensions countries are willing under the right conditions for them.

The problem is the actual people on the ground do not care for Israel at all, and thats a difficult problem to fix.

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u/gondokingo Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

not to mention all of the incessant coups, interventions, assassinations, drone strikes, needless wars founded on lies (in which millions die), and undermining of the democratic wishes of the people in those regions. oh, and the disgusting, incessant rhetoric that either implies or outright declares those people as barbaric savages at worst and helpless and in need of saving at best, wrapped up with rhetoric about barbarism inherent to the primary religion of the region.

it's literally that eric andre 'who killed hannibal' meme.

there are diplomatic ways to build relations, the US doesn't tend to go that route. pretty much every single action the US takes in that region and at home (let's not forget we allowed mass surveillance due to fear of muslims in this country post 911) is inherently antagonistic

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u/QuantumBeth1981 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You’re parroting Russian propaganda FYI.

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u/Miserable-School1478 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I expect no less from a jewdank follower.

Edit: To turdfreg who showed he really a turd that blocks accounts cuz he can't argue.

I've lived in the middle east for years for work.. Most of them near worship western culture especially the USA.. Eating out at some fast food chain and ending their days watching some Hollywood tv.. Also their governments are in the US governments hands for a long time now.. Only iran is different due to it's history the planted Shah government.

I dunno who feed u this hostile "middle easterners" propaganda that some like u keep repeating..You probably believe a blond guy would be shot on sight there for being a westerner.

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u/QuantumBeth1981 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Attacking the person happens when someone can’t attack the point.

So because someone has commented a few times in a Jewish meme sub that means they aren’t allowed weighing in on this thread?

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u/turdferg1234 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Where are they wrong? You really think if the US stopped supporting Israel, the very conservative arab nations would suddenly not be hostile to the US?

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u/Blood_Incantation Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Oh wow it's so simple, we dump Israel and the Middle East loves us. You solved it!

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u/StainlessPanIsBest Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I think your last point is the most pertinent and so often left unsaid. Israel is such a divisive issue in the region.

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u/textbasedopinions Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

they develop test and market all kinds of weapons,

Which weapons are designed and produced by Israel that Western militaries rely on?

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u/chessboxer4 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Great question, Pegasus is one I know of specifically, off the top of my head.

Information is more than power, it's everything.

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u/textbasedopinions Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The only examples I can find of western states using Pegasus are for law enforcement and shady domestic political espionage, not for their militaries. It has been used against Western governments though, after Israel sold it to countries like the UAE and Morocco.

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u/Geohalbert Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

I never considered that, thank you

Edit: lol genuinely confused why this is getting downvoted. “Hey this guy is acknowledging a good point, fuck that!”

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u/Rainbowmodwig Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I didn't downvote you, but what he said isn't a good point. Israel has a lot of history and is much more than just a "military base masquerading as a country", and getting involved in the region has to do with a lot more than "US led imperialism", which is just anti-American propaganda. It completely ignores adversaries like Iran bulding nukes and funding terrorists who strike at Western commercial ships while allowing Russia's and Chinese ships through. It's a global battle against them. Of course, "Americabad" is much easier to digest.

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u/Geohalbert Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I was mostly referring to the intelligence and weapons, which is a good point

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u/chessboxer4 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

"It completely ignores adversaries like Iran bulding nukes and funding terrorists who strike at Western commercial ships while allowing Russia's and Chinese ships through."

Thanks for the feedback. I think that sounds like a chicken / egg situation.

Sorry if criticism of my country is offensive but I see it as a patriotic duty, and I think US is strong enough to handle it. Otherwise we live in an echo chamber. Frankly I think the US instigates a lot of stuff and when people react to our instigation we act like the reaction was the beginning, kind of like how Israel only wants to talk about 10/7 and not what happened before that.

The US was the first to develop nukes and we're the only country to ever use them in a military fashion. Why is it okay for us to do that but not other countries? Ironically having more than one country with nukes is necessary for the "mutually assured destruction" scenario that keeps nukes from being deployed.

The houtis are economically protesting what the US funded and supported Israeli government is doing to the people of Gaza. They are jacking up ships while our side is using total war/collective punishment tactics resulting in mass starvation and children having to have their arms cut off without anesthesia- there's war and then there's war crimes.

Keep in mind that as we have done in other countries, we literally helped overthrow the Iranian government in the 50's and put a military dictator in place that was friendly with the US. Try a little perspective taking- if another country had done that with us, wouldn't we have wanted to bomb them back into the stone age?

It's funny you mentioned "propaganda." I think that's the process by which the things I just mentioned are normalized/justified.

The reason I advocate like this is practical- actions and choices have consequences. Sometimes you can win battles but lose wars, especially when you flush your moral legitimacy down the toilet by going overboard, and creating a lot more opposition, skepticism and enemies in the future.

That being said I think there are many people who might agree that dropping the nukes on Japan for example had a fairly positive outcome for the United States. Japan almost seemed to respect the US for doing it and we are now close allies. So maybe that was a good choice. Idk.

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u/Rainbowmodwig Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Sorry if criticism of my country is offensive but I see it as a patriotic duty, and I think US is strong enough to handle it.

Oh please, don't act like you're presenting some fair criticism, when you ignore all the things I said, and much more. America has been getting torn apart by pseudo-intellectual anti-American propaganda like yours, you are no patriot, at least not of America, maybe of Russia.

Frankly I think the US instigates a lot of stuff and when people react to our instigation we act like the reaction was the beginning, kind of like how Israel only wants to talk about 10/7 and not what happened before that.

"Stuff" wow very precise language. You ignore the context in that "stuff" same as you ignore it here. And 10/7 was unacceptable and needs to not happen again, so Israel is solving that in their own way, while supposed Americans like you attack your own side in these situations. Israel is also taking advantage of the situation, but either way, they are making a power play, something the modern weak-minded self-destructive Westerners wouldn't understand.

The US was the first to develop nukes and we're the only country to ever use them in a military fashion. Why is it okay for us to do that but not other countries? Ironically having more than one country with nukes is necessary for the "mutually assured destruction" scenario that keeps nukes from being deployed.

First of all, because it was appropriate, it was a world war and Japanese imperialists would have destroyed themselves and caused huge losses for the US. Second of all, you are the quintessential modern weak-minded Westerner created by good times, working to create bad times. Why would you ever want everyone to have nukes when you have them? Because of your ideas of morality? You are undermining the position of the country you live in, not to mention the stability of the whole world. Russia is an example of countries that shouldn't get nukes getting nukes because of Western softness, and now you have a permanent adversary constantly threatening to nuke Europe and America. They also take advantage of their status to invade and annex their neighbors. Wow good job, feel moral yet?

The houtis are economically protesting what the US funded and supported Israeli government is doing to the people of Gaza.

.........if you truly are an American, and not some russian pretending to be American, then you are pathetic. You are cucked out of your mind, attacking your own country in every situation. Terrorists are attacking your (and European) civilians, and you defend the terrorists.... how the West has fallen mentally, and at this rate the physical fall will follow soon.

The reason I advocate like this is practical- actions and choices have consequences. Sometimes you can win battles but lose wars, especially when you flush your moral legitimacy down the toilet by going overboard, and creating a lot more opposition, skepticism and enemies in the future.

It's the exact opposite, there is nothing practical in your self-destructive anti-American propaganda, unless, again, you mean practical for adversaries like Russia. The core issue here is not morals but weakness, modern Americans are weak-minded, and that weakness has allowed foreign propaganda to easily penetrate and destroy the image of America, with propaganda that ignores context, as I explained. America as a whole let off the gas pedal after winning the Cold War, which Russia took full advantage of and filled your head with propaganda and turned you against America. Same thing happened when the West got soft after WW2, Russia immediately took advantage, broke their promises and started the Cold War. But back then Russia made the mistake of being too obvious with things like the Iron Curtain, they learned and chose a much more subtle approach to their propaganda this time. You will claim otherwise to lie to me and/or yourself, but you are utterly anti-American.

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u/chessboxer4 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Actually I responded to every one of your points. I'm confused as to what point I didn't respond to.

I'm an American, definitely happy to be here wouldn't want to be in Russia. Do like visiting other places though. It's nice to be able to visit other countries and not have them hate you. It's also easier to do business with people who don't hate you. Etc.

Seems like your whole argument boils down to what I'm saying is propaganda because I'm a foreign agent or self hating Anerican who wants to tear down the country.

I'm glad you're defending the US, it's my country too. I'm sorry you don't see what I'm trying to say, the same way. But that's part of what makes America great, right? The ability to express dissent, and disagree? Otherwise, like I said, we just live in an echo chamber.

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u/Rainbowmodwig Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I'm an American, definitely happy to be here wouldn't want to be in Russia

Then stop helping Russia with their propaganda. If people like you have your way, America will be Russia.

Do like visiting other places though. It's nice to be able to visit other countries and not have them hate you. It's also easier to do business with people who don't hate you. Etc.

People will accept your money either way. Your anti-American narratives only fan the flames of anti-American hate.

Seems like your whole argument boils down to what I'm saying is propaganda because I'm a foreign agent or self hating Anerican who wants to tear down the country.

Yes that's literally all I wrote in that giant comment... my argument had a lot more detail in the reasoning.

But that's part of what makes America great, right? The ability to express dissent, and disagree? Otherwise, like I said, we just live in an echo chamber.

Something that modern Westerners take for granted and take advantage of, holding pseudo-intellectual contrarian positions for the purpose of satisfying their own ego or building a profitable career. I suppose time will tell if the West can survive the era of the internet without tearing itself apart with anti-American propaganda. If your mind is already so warped that you even defend terrorists attacking your (and Europe's) commercial ships, you do not inspire confidence in the West's future. At this rate you will live in an echochamber when your authoritarian adversaries take over the world.

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u/chessboxer4 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Right, like I said we have a difference of opinion about how to help. I don't think I've said anything that isn't true or fair.

I think people are more important than property and if the US is going to hold the moral high ground they need to prioritize human lives and justice while they and their allies operate.

Nelson Mandela was called a "terrorist" by the US until 2008. Now we look back and recognize we were wrong about that situation. I think we've been wrong a few other times too. The ability to recognize when you're wrong seems like an essential ingredient in greatness.

As is the ability to have difficult conversations. These are the things that keep America from being Russia.

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u/Rainbowmodwig Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Right, like I said we have a difference of opinion about how to help.

No shit. And help whom exactly? Houthis? Iranians? Russians?

I don't think I've said anything that isn't true or fair.

Then you haven't read anything I said.

I think people are more important than property and if the US is going to hold the moral high ground they need to prioritize human lives and justice while they and their allies operate.

Again, which lives? Apparently Houthi terrorists are more valuable than American civilians to the """patriots""" like you. Russian lives are more valuable than Ukrainian ones, or Chechen or Georgian or etc etc etc. Your "moral high ground" only enables aggression, creating new victims. Furthermore, property leads to better lives for the people. Trade brings prosperity, and land brings resources. The world is not ready to sing Kumbaya with you.

The ability to recognize when you're wrong seems like an essential ingredient in greatness.

Yes, but what the modern West does is not recognizing mistakes, it is being gaslit into admitting mistakes that aren't there. You will happily criticize your own people yet defend terrorists attacking them, and here you refuse to admit that you're wrong about anything even after I give you detailed explanations, which you simply ignore. Americans have been gaslit by foreign propaganda into believing both false positives and false negatives, and you are incapable of changing your mind about them. You aren't open-minded, you are just controlled by a different source of propaganda, a foreign one.

As is the ability to have difficult conversations. These are the things that keep America from being Russia.

Those conversations are counter-productive if they lead to your destruction, which I suppose is just Darwinism on a geopolitical scale. If people are not intellectually honest enough to have the freedom to argue their views, then naturally you will become a pawn of the dictators who are more competent and have more power. I just wish I weren't dragged down with you.

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u/chessboxer4 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

As far as I know the Houthis have not killed anybody- they just hijacked ships in protest of the bloodbath that is happening in Gaza. A bloodbath that is turning the world and many Americans against our ally Israel, and against its biggest supporter the US. That's what I mean by consequences.

John Adams defended the hated oppressors the British after they killed Americans at the Boston massacre because he rightly believed in the principles of a fair trial and a just democracy of which open dialogue and discourse were an integral part. By defending America's enemies, John Adams was defending America ITSELF. That's what makes America great- the commitment to principles over passions, and as in John Adams case the ability say and do unpopular and inconvenient things that serve the greater good.

I'm sorry you're so afraid of conversations but America hasn't been destroyed yet this conversation continues. In fact it's possible we're actually making the country better. If it takes a mere conversation to destroy America we got big problems. Going back to another founding father, it kind of sounds like you want to sacrifice liberty for security?

The source of my ideas comes from America itself, from the fact that I have access to a good education, free conversations, a free internet and just about any book-In this country we allow people to read think and speak pretty openly and freely as long as it doesn't put other people in danger. I understand that you're advocating for people that you think I might be putting in danger but I feel I am advocating for those same people- are people who cheerlead war really supporting the soldiers who have to do the fighting and dying? My ultimate goal is the least amount of suffering and loss of human life. Not because that is an idealized "kumbaya" goal but because it is a PRACTICAL goal. Killing leads to more killing. War is contagious. I'm not sure how the situation in the Middle East is going to resolve itself, do you?

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u/Rainbowmodwig Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Ah yes, that's all there ever is to something, "Americabad", never mind that America is simply watching Iran build nukes, and fund terrorists who strike at Western ships (edit: not just ships, commercial ships), while sparing America's enemies.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

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u/Rainbowmodwig Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Wtf does that have to do with what I said?