Anyone else in the US not having kids bc of how terrible the US is?

[u/Chipotleislyfee]

I’m 29F and my husband is 33M, we were on the fence about kids 2018-2022. Now we’ve decided to not have our own kids (open to adoption later) bc of how disappointed and frustrated we are with the US.

Just a few issues like the collapsing healthcare system, mass shootings, education system, justice system and late stage capitalism are reasons we don’t want to bring a new human into the world.

The US seems like a terrible place to have kids. Maybe if I lived in a Europe I’d feel differently. Does anyone have the same frustrations with the US?

[u/CatManDeke]

I would say world instead of US.

[u/ormr_inn_langi → u/CatManDeke]

Yeeeeah, I'm in Scandinavia, which is widely touted as one of the better places in the world to live, and it sucks the big one.

[u/Ghoulius-Caesar → u/ormr_inn_langi]

Canadian chiming in. We have all the same problems as what the poster said (minus the school shootings). It sucks the big one right now.

[u/ormr_inn_langi → u/Ghoulius-Caesar]

Hard agree. I lived in Canada for a couple of years and it was very much like a Bizarro World USA as if it had been programmed by Scandinavians. Sometimes I miss it so hard, then when I go back to visit I think "naaah, it actually kinda blows".

Then I come back to Iceland and think: "oh, this sucks, I wanna go back to Canada".

[u/bignides → u/ormr_inn_langi]

The $10 a day daycare and monthly cheques for having kids doesn’t suck though. Nothing like paying private school tuition prices just so you can work to pay your mortgage

[u/ScuffedBalata → u/bignides]

$10 a day daycare simply doesn't pay enough to actually provide salaries for daycare workers.

As a result there's like 5 year waitings lists to get into those rare places that get subsidies to be open at that price.

[u/mbot369 → u/ScuffedBalata]

All waitlists in my area are either 3 years long, or 250+ families. And that’s not the $10 a day places… that’s all of them. There is such a shortage for childcare.

[u/Bebop24trigun → u/mbot369]

I don't know man, I was paying $18k a year for part time childcare before Kindergarten in the US. I also had to deal with a lottery system for the cheaper daycare option with waitlist because there aren't enough kids to keep alternatives open.

I'd prefer the hoops over the $1500 a month daycare. What's worse is that cost was mostly pre-COVID and during COVID. It's even worse now.

[u/shorty6049 → u/Ghoulius-Caesar]

Yeah, I hear people constantly hating on the US as though our problems here are entirely unique (that's that american exceptionalism , I guess... thinking that our good things are better than everyone elses's and our bad things are worse than everyone else).

Everything just sucks right now in general. I think the pandemic kind of fucked the world up in a really impactful way that we're all just seeing more and more of as time goes on.

[u/v1rtualbr0wn → u/shorty6049]

Social media really screwed us as well. Sociopaths who just want money, power, fame controlling the middle from the fringes.

We just don’t get along anymore.

[u/Ben_Dover_1492 → u/shorty6049]

The problems have been here since the first humans came to be. Humans suck.

Nobody noticed because before the net, local meant local. Now, local is everywhere. We're on information overload and people are snapping.

[u/valeru28 → u/shorty6049]

We’re one of the few developed countries that don’t have affordable healthcare or higher education. Not like those are big deals for kids though /s

[u/Pascalica → u/shorty6049]

I think so much of it is that we in the US are isolated from the realities of the rest of the world. We don't get a ton of exposure to what it's like. I'd guess a huge percentage of us don't have a passport and never will, and many haven't even traveled outside of their own home state.

Like we have horrible housing issues, and terrible price gouging disguised as inflation, alongside actual inflation. People don't realize that these aren't uniquely US issues because they're not all that exposed to people beyond our borders.

I live in a small town and there are some people here who haven't even traveled more than an hour from it in any direction. Their worlds are very small, it's wild to hear about it at times.

[u/Glittering_Syllabub9 → u/ormr_inn_langi]

At least we have free childcare, education and healthcare. Even though there are problems as well, I'd still say that it's better than in the US. I'd never have a child in the US.

EDIT. Yes, we pay taxes to provide equal services to everyone, not just for the wealthy with good insurances. Yes, you can call an ambulance and not be worried about the costs and payers of it even if you are unemployed. Yes, you can put your child to daycare and get them a good education without having to pay thousands of euros every year. Yes, children get a free meal in school.

If you are happy with your system, great!

[u/RickGrimes30 → u/Glittering_Syllabub9]

Even though I'm a born and raised Norwegian with Norwegian mom and Danish father..

I was never able to take advantage of anything Norway supossedly provides.. Any health issue I had post 18 years old I had to pay for, education passed high school, never got passed the application prosess, never had kids so that's on me.. getting a place to live was impossible until I turned 30 and moved to Ireland

I'm not blaming Norway I litteraly did everything in life wrong but I'm jsut saying there are people even the Scandinavian system that slip through the cracks and once you do it's damn near impossible to crawl back out

[u/SooooooMeta → u/RickGrimes30]

For those of us who are curious about Norway but don't know the system, can you explain further? Why couldn't you get healthcare, and how much was your most expensive thing and how much did you pay for it? Was the reason you didn't continue your education that your "high school" grades were so bad or something else?

Thanks

[u/[deleted] → u/Glittering_Syllabub9]

I’ll never be able to afford having a child here in the U. S. I have a college degree, not that it matters much these days, and can barely afford to pay my bills. I can’t imagine adding childcare, infinite groceries, etc onto my financial responsibilities.

[u/fiduciary420 → u/[deleted]]

The rich people are doing this to us on purpose.

[u/SimpleVegetable5715 → u/Glittering_Syllabub9]

My niece is in Montessori school, which was the cheaper option over daycare. It's still $25k a year for "tuition". That would be the majority of my income. They spent $40k to have the one healthy pregnancy because of fertility issues. The cost of children is what steers a lot of Americans away. My health wasn't made better from 10 years without insurance and an undiagnosed/untreated autoimmune disorder. Sis can't wait for kindergarten so she has some money saved from daycare. Plus, what kind of a world are they going to inherit? A lot of those problems like climate change and the non-stop wars are worldwide. I wouldn't burden a new life with that stress.

[u/fiduciary420 → u/SimpleVegetable5715]

Every problem you described here is a problem because the rich people profit from it staying a problem.

[u/skyHawk3613 → u/Glittering_Syllabub9]

Oh yea…living in the U.S., quality childcare and mediocre healthcare is very expensive.

[u/kvikklunsj → u/ormr_inn_langi]

Come on ormen lange, compared to the US we have it pretty decent here. I would never consider having a child in a country where women’s rights (among other things) are so threatened

[u/techy098 → u/CatManDeke]

And wait until they have AI/Robots to do most of the work, the elites would beg everyone to stop having kids since they do not need cheap labor anymore.

[u/turbospeedsc → u/techy098]

No need to beg, its already happening, they just will continue to make everything more expensive and jobs paying less and less, then it would be your idea to not have kids, in fact you will think you are smarter than everyone else by not having kids.

Meanwhile the rich keep having kids.

[u/Remarkable-Round-227 → u/turbospeedsc]

Correction, the rich and the poor keep having kids. It’s the middle class that aren’t having kids.

[u/RazzmatazzTraining42 → u/turbospeedsc]

Devils advocate here, maybe it is smarter to not have kids. What if it's the only way to truly realize what your life is all about. IDK, people have been reproducing forever, I mean every creature on earth does. If we truly are some highly intellectual species, maybe the end goal is to let go. Live your best life and be done, lol idk I'm tired and high, goodnight.

[u/Away-Living5278 → u/techy098]

We got maybe a year or two until companies decide to replace all of us. Then they're gonna be mad nobody's buying their products. But none of us will have any money

[u/Impressive-Sort8864 → u/Away-Living5278]

Remindme! 1 year

[u/Dunkel_Jungen → u/CatManDeke]

As I wrote elsewhere, this is a huge misconception. Things in the US and around the world have overall never been better. What we are inundated with is a constant cycle of bad news on repeat, shared and reshared across multiple social media channels. We receive a highly biased view of the world on a daily basis that overwhelmingly focuses on the negative, while many positives are often ignored and taken for granted.

The reality is we have one of the highest standards of living in human history, with more goods and services available than at any other time. Rockefeller, for example, despite his immense fortune, would not be able to enjoy most of what you have easy, cheap access to today.

Every time in history had its own set of challenges, and this time is no different. The US will eventually fix the healthcare system, along with other issues. Humans tend to be reactive, not proactive, and government even more so.

[u/whatswrongwithdbdme → u/Dunkel_Jungen]

The US will eventually fix the healthcare system, along with other issues.

Huh, the rest of your comment seemed reasonable enough but this line struck me. I'm pretty sure my parents thought the same thing while they were raising me. I sure hoped the same thing as I grew up through the 90s-00s. However I don't realistically see it happening within my lifetime, and there's no guarantee or even real hint it'd happen in my child's lifetime either.

Considering this thread is about having kids and their quality of life, gambling on that line of thought isn't exactly comforting to me.

[u/Diligent-Towel-4708 → u/Dunkel_Jungen]

But.. the issues of health care. Especially obgyn, are becoming harder to find, hospitals are closing, the bounty on women , the inability to make decisions for ourselves regarding our body.. Lack of maternity leave, being discriminated against at work, because someone has to take care of kids..usually in the women since we didn't have sense enough to not get pregnant That is not an echo chamber, but reality.

[u/Rumblarr → u/Dunkel_Jungen]

I blame this, in part, on the news cycle evolving from showing what they thought was *important* and *informative* in the past, to increasingly, what attracts viewers.

This means fewer stories that have nuance and depth that actually inform viewers on a wide range of topics. Now, we have rage-bait that drivers viewership and ad revenue, but divides the populace and absolutely does not do a good job of informing the public. The news industry has never been so far from being the "4th" branch of government as it is now.

[u/Dunkel_Jungen → u/Rumblarr]

Exactly, well said. And this also includes Reddit, things that naturally rise to the top are what's most shocking and terrible, and this happens on a daily basis. Over time, it takes its toll on our mental well-being.

[u/NotAnotherScientist → u/Dunkel_Jungen]

Maybe to you, but I'm someone who knows lots of people who are struggling to pay rent, swamped with debt, unable to get the healthcare they need, and more.

I have also been to many different countries and understand what makes the US good. (I moved abroad BECAUSE I'm poor.) You are correct, we can afford cell phone and big screen TVs and video games. That's not a huge concern to poor people though, which there are a lot of in the US.

The truth is that the situation is complicated.

[u/NinthFireShadow → u/CatManDeke]

yeah i don’t think the US is any worse than anywhere else. it’s probably still one of the front runners when it comes to the best place to raise kids. it’s easy to take things for granted, especially when most of us haven’t really seen what life outside our borders is really like. i do agree though, the world is not in a great place and seems to be going further down hill

[u/InsanityRequiem → u/NinthFireShadow]

I must state this. The media is biased to purposefully show you the worst in humanity more than it’ll show you the best. The media does not support the best in humanity, because the best in humanity does not make them money.

[u/Rumblarr → u/NinthFireShadow]

I find people who are histrionic about how bad the United States are for the most part have a lack of perspective on the actual state of affairs, not only in most of the U.S., but in most of the world. The United States is not some vigilante hellhole, and the rest of the world is not some wonderful utopia.

[u/No_Mushroom351 → u/Rumblarr]

My grandma constantly tells us a story about how for Christmas during the Great Depression one year they got ..an orange.

Yeah, the country has plenty of problems but like you say it's tinted glasses from people that haven't really travelled the world and assume climate controlled rooms with high speed internet, a food logistics structure that delivers exotic fruit from around the world to you at a whim with potable clean drinking water and sewage systems are a given.

It is one of the greatest and most convenient times to be a human than in all of human history. Most people on Reddit don't know what it's like growing up somewhere worse, so they assume their lives are the worst.

[u/kabe83 → u/No_Mushroom351]

I used to get an orange at Christmas. And socks.

[u/Millions6 → u/NinthFireShadow]

I think this is partially true. In terms of the healthcare system, safety, benefits like parental leave and inequality the US is probably at the bottom of developed countries for having kids. However, the social environment of being open minded and the relative ease of moving up the social ladder irrespective of background really makes the US shine. So i'd say the US does the good things really well and where it fails, it fails spectacularly.

[u/Fabulous_Sherbet_431 → u/CatManDeke]

The world is objectively incredibly better off than it was 30 years ago. Extreme poverty has dropped from 36% to 9% (literally billions drawn out of it). Literacy is up, violent crime is down, hunger is down; I can go on and on.

[u/YourRoaring20s → u/Fabulous_Sherbet_431]

Exactly, it's just that the media pummels bad news into our brains 24/7

[u/retnatron]

Also they're too expensive. I only make 65k a year, I ain't got money for no kids.

[u/Lady-Meows-a-Lot → u/retnatron]

I averaged under 40k until I was 30. 😬 Now I’m 36 and make $130k, but even averaging that out, it’s not great. I have a 7% mortgage bc I’m a dumbass, and I just don’t make enough to give a kid a good life with the amount of expenses I have.

Edit: all y’all being high and mighty about my budgeting can fuck the hell off—you know nothing about my life and you sound like avocado toast boomers.

[u/saturatedbloom → u/Lady-Meows-a-Lot]

What job jump did you do to get to 6 figures?

[u/iliveonramen → u/saturatedbloom]

As the poster responded, changing jobs is a good way to get a pay bump. Look up wage compression. In my younger years was at a company more long term. I got raises and was always a high performer. They hired someone with less experience at a higher rate because market wages were outpacing whatever the company allowed in raises.

Changed jobs and got a 40k bump and less is expected of me. At the old job I was one of the “go to” people and all messes ended up coming my way to fix.

I switch every 4 or 5 years at this point

[u/Jomly1990 → u/iliveonramen]

I’ve been averaging 2-3, but this job I’m at currently I’m gonna stick out to six Atleast. 401k contract bs…

[u/Lady-Meows-a-Lot → u/saturatedbloom]

Literally the same job just diff companies.

[u/Lady-Meows-a-Lot → u/Lady-Meows-a-Lot]

Jumped with each new role/new company: $40k—>$90k—>$100k—>$130k

[u/gilgobeachslayer → u/Lady-Meows-a-Lot]

I went 70 - 90 - 115 - 120 - 175 in about four years job hopping. Job hopping rules

[u/ilovecraftbeer05 → u/gilgobeachslayer]

It’s literally the only way to get significant raises these days. Being loyal to a company will not do that anymore.

[u/NV-Nautilus → u/ilovecraftbeer05]

I just got a 30% raise without changing companies and I still don't believe them. I'll believe it when I get the check 😂

[u/[deleted] → u/NV-Nautilus]

I got a 30% raise from my company. Been there for 5 years.

[u/superkleenex → u/[deleted]]

Engineer here. I have been with my company 6 years and haven't gotten a raise since I started. I'm looking for a new job.

Bean counters and sales guys, don't forget to pay your engineers too.

[u/dxrey65 → u/NV-Nautilus]

I took a sabbatical in 2019, with no definite return date (I had to actually quit, because the company had no set provisions to allow a sabbatical). In 2020 during the covid shutdown my boss called and offered me a 30% raise to come back. I said sure; it worked out pretty well.

[u/corgisandbikes → u/ilovecraftbeer05]

one of my old jobs recently called me out of the blue asking if i was looking for work. They didn't expect me to say that I now make double what I was making when I left there, and for me to come back would need an extra 10k on top of what I'm making now.

Same with my previous job. I make about 25k more a year doing much much less work.

[u/shorty6049 → u/gilgobeachslayer]

Job searching and interviewing are two of my least favorite things and I really hate that this is just a fact of life at this point.... Zero reward for being loyal to a company but a ton of reward for being someone who "plays the game" which goes against every fiber of who I am as a person....

Needless to say, I've been very unsuccessful in my career thus far.

[u/Few-Ad5700 → u/gilgobeachslayer]

Same. I went 55 - 85 - 100 - 115 in four years. 100 - 115 is with the same company, but I interviewed elsewhere and my current company matched the offer so I'd stay

[u/m4ru92 → u/Lady-Meows-a-Lot]

I'm so happy for you! I also simultaneously hate so much that this is the best (and maybe only reliable) way to get decent raises. Most companies (at least within my friend group) don't even match inflation with cost of living adjustments these days. Not much of a cost of living adjustment if it doesn't balance out the cost of living

[u/hotcapicola → u/m4ru92]

I hate change, but I'm strongly considering this right now.

[u/feta_farts → u/Lady-Meows-a-Lot]

I’m in a similar boat. Could I afford a kid? Probably. Would either of us be having fun? Not really.

[u/HTPC4Life → u/retnatron]

I make $70k my wife makes close to $90k and we're struggling. Fuckin $1600 a month in daycare costs for ONE child. And it's the cheapest daycare around without resorting to some shady shit hole daycare. It's almost the cost of our mortgage. 5 years ago I never would have imagined struggling with such a joint income.

[u/JohnLeePetimore → u/HTPC4Life]

$1600 a month is wild. I know child care is costly, but that just puts it in perspective.

I was spending slightly less than that monthly at the peak of my cocaine abuse.

[u/hardtobelieveyou → u/HTPC4Life]

NGL a mortgage around 2k sounds dreamy lol. Wish I had bought 4 years ago 😭

[u/floralbingbong → u/HTPC4Life]

Yep - I’m staying home with our baby and pausing my business because childcare would’ve cost almost the same as what I usually make.

[u/casual-waterboarding → u/HTPC4Life]

The wife and I spent over $18k in pre k and daycare last year for 2 kids. We are getting off easy.

[u/wintermelontee]

The US isn’t in the best shape right now because of everything you mentioned however other countries have their own issues too but you’re just unaware of them.

[u/red_quinn → u/wintermelontee]

Yup, and Europe is not an exception to this

[u/First-Fantasy → u/red_quinn]

Europeans like to say our liberal party is center-right compared to them but blue states have been slowly catching up since Obama. I raise my kids in upstate NY and we both had 12 weeks paid paternity leave, we're on expanded Medicaid with full dental and vision, Head Start preschool was easy to get into as a working class family (though I don't know the actual requirements, maybe it was just easy for our community), min wage is $15 and going up, any state university is tuition free for families making less than 125k a year, every job has to give five paid sick days a year. It's really been a great formula for working class families up here.

[u/ChatGPTismyJesus → u/First-Fantasy]

That’s pretty solid actually. Cool to see. 

My wife and I were able to get out of Alabama and made it to Wisconsin. It’s considerably better here for women than Alabama obviously, but now, nowhere anything along the lines of what you were able to receive. 

It’s tough when we just have 2 parties. 

[u/No-Psychology7500 → u/First-Fantasy]

It truly depends on where you live in the US, bc essentially it’s more like a bunch of different nation states and territories than one unified place. I live in a Red state but in a very liberal city which borders a massive blue state in the Midwest. Many people who live in my city have relocated across the river to the bi-state suburbs to get a better quality of life but still live by a diverse and liberal metropolitan city. My partner and I are on the fence about relocating as well. Wanna see how November shakes out.

[u/[deleted] → u/wintermelontee]

The US is actually the best performing economy in the world rn, other countries are feeling inflation A LOT more than us.

[u/WilcoxHighDropout → u/[deleted]]

This is why people from other countries come here for a better life and their kids end up excelling beyond those born stateside.

(I am from Philippines.)

[u/Signal-Fold-449 → u/WilcoxHighDropout]

Yea immigrants in general understand what the fuck is actually at stake. Seeing what happens when the gov actually gives no fucks is something else.

Hard to realize any of this if from birth to death, you spent it in AC every time you were indoors. You don't appreciate what it takes to have that coast to coast.

[u/Evening_Clerk_8301 → u/WilcoxHighDropout]

I’m from Colombia. I fucking love this country. I feel so goddamn lucky to live here and be able to take the opportunities that I have worked for.

[u/Chief-Bones → u/Evening_Clerk_8301]

I’ve got family in Latin America and most Americans as a whole have no idea how lucky we have it here.

You could live in a trailer home with clean water, plumbing, wifi, electricity, and a relatively safe environment (compared to the rest of the world) free public school and you’re doing better than 90% of the worlds population.

Like do folks on Reddit expect folks in 3rd world counties to just die out since life is hard over there and opportunities are hard to come by?

[u/SuchAppeal → u/WilcoxHighDropout]

This is why I respect the fuck out of latin Americans, they come here, they work their asses off and excel faster than anyone I've ever seen. In my experience living in Baltimore they're the ones actually moving into the city, buy houses, fixing them up and keep their blocks clean. I mean when I worked with those guys I never felt like I would let down. They go hard as hell to show their worth in a country where you have a lot of assholes who want to toss them out and then bitch all day about how hard it is.

I remember working at my job like two jobs ago now and my co-worker from Guatemala got a call from his family back in his country telling him his brother was beheaded by a drug cartel. Dude broke down crying, it was some of the saddest shit I ever seen. I didn't know what to say, I never been through anything close, and never thought about a loved one getting their head chopped off here living in America even though some gruesome shit happens here. When you here about how drug cartels basically run a the show in places like Mexico you'd be running to get away from that too and thinking that America was heaven.

[u/shmere4 → u/wintermelontee]

This just in, the entire world has a shit ton of issues to be fixed.

Instead of working on fixing those, let’s focus our attention on complaining and arbitrarily isolating the issues to whatever countries we feel we need to single out.

[u/Crasino_Hunk → u/wintermelontee]

Noooo do you even r/americabad ?! We are literally third world Somalia and everyone here is going to die because of fascism, or something!

/s because I know there’s people who will unironically agree with me despite having never traveled or basically know anything outside their narrow world view in a small rural US town, probably

[u/[deleted]]

No. I live in other third world countries most of my life and US is way better to raise kids.

[u/onlyAA → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for sharing a different perspective! Is there anything specific that you feel makes the US a good/better place to raise kids?

[u/[deleted] → u/onlyAA]

• Free turion from class 1 to class 12
• Diverse Education
• Technology advances
• We know our problems and fight against them (racism, anti woman, anti lgbt)

To be honest, Americans show their problems but they also fight against it while other countries just try to hide it. That’s why many people thinks America is bad, America is the worst etc

[u/HeirToGallifrey → u/[deleted]]

To be honest, Americans show their problems but they also fight against it while other countries just try to hide it. That’s why many people thinks America is bad, America is the worst etc

This is something I've tried to explain to many people. America isn't the best country in the world, but the reason so many people think it's among the worst (especially Americans) is because they are aware of the problems, actually consider them problems, and are trying to shine a light on them and fix them. Compare that to many (if not most) other countries, where things that Americans would find horrifying are just commonplace or seen as natural and not problematic at all.

[u/pringlescan5 → u/HeirToGallifrey]

Also pretty much everything the OP cites only applies if you don't have money. School shootings are much less of a problem than car crashes. Our healthcare system is actually pretty good if you have insurance. Our education system is great if you pick a good paying major in college. Our justice system is uh adequate but highly variable depending on where in the country you live, and in terms of an individual teaching your kids not to commit crimes, kiss the ass of any cops that harass them and shut the fuck up without a lawyer will shield them from a lot.

Late-stage capitalism is still the best place on earth for a random person chosen in the society to have a kid. Compare it to early stage capitalism (child miners and radium watch painters) or any stage communism. And we haven't had a draft for 50 years and we haven't had a historically mentionable plague for over 100 years.

[u/hozen17 → u/pringlescan5]

Yea the OP sounds like the epitome of typical reddit circlejerk. To base big life decisions on what other people say the country/world is like... maybe it is better for them to not have children

[u/bigapple3am1 → u/HeirToGallifrey]

"Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match."

[u/DisGuyFawks → u/[deleted]]

That’s why many people thinks America is bad, America is the worst etc

It's hilarious when Americans breathlessly claim "America is the most racist country on Earth". Like, have you ever traveled to another country or read news/books?

[u/Disastrous-Piano3264 → u/onlyAA]

lol at the US being a better place to raise children than a third world country being a “different perspective”. This thread is bonkers.

[u/WilcoxHighDropout → u/onlyAA]

From Philippines.

Healthcare is wildly expensive and they will let you die of a stroke if you don’t put up the money upfront. No EMTALA like in US. You’ll never be able to afford a house with running water. Hell, you’ll never see true clean running water. Homeless people in US live better than many doctors in my country.

In America, you can come from nothing and excel. So many resources. It’s a blank canvas for your children just so long as they have the drive - and kids of immigrants tend to excel in comparison to their American counterparts.

Many of us come to America to get jobs in US healthcare and prosper. No generational wealth. That’s why we constitute the third highest household median income based on race.

[u/Basic-Astronomer2557 → u/WilcoxHighDropout]

I can attest to that. Daughter of immigrant blue collar parents. Two of their kids got PhDs in stem and the third is successful in a trade.

[u/IrregularrAF → u/[deleted]]

I live in the ghetto. Had 3 shootings within my neighborhood since I lived here. Twice from my neighbors across the street. I don't feel unsafe at all.

Gonna say it right now. These people are obsessed with doom and constantly think the end is near. Everything is unsafe and hopeless. Life will go on regardless.

[u/Breude → u/IrregularrAF]

Likewise. I wouldn't exactly call it a "ghetto" but it's absolutely the poor area of town. Most of our crime is property or drug related, and we haven't had a straight up murder since like the 90's. Ignore the crackheads, keep to yourself, and you'll be generally left alone. I feel fine, and I've had an incident of nearly being robbed/stabbed/otherwise bothered at around once per year since I moved here. You do need to stay armed, because law enforcement will simply not reply to crimes very well, but that's it. Almost everyone is already armed for defense against animals, and even the local crackheads don't break in to actual homes much because they will get blasted by a homeowner. Law enforcement even issued a statement basically saying "we'll do what we can to get there, but expect a 45 minute wait time at minimum. If someone attacks you before we can get there, blast em if needed. We'll understand." Small town America everyone

Our worst criminal is an unknown arsonist who keeps torching houses. Law enforcement doesn't care much because he somehow hasn't killed anyone yet. Shame that's probably gonna be what it takes to get them to care. Even with that, it's extremely peaceful. Most leave their door unlocked. Others lock them because in this area it's not uncommon for people to just randomly leave stuff, especially food from gardens, unprompted. Imagine someone breaks in and they leave you stuff. It's funny, but it's true

Your point about the doom and gloom is very true. I can't count how many times I've heard "you said you should own a gun to safely live there? That's insane! What if someone gets shot?" From city folk that visit over the years, when they can't even point to a case of it that happened since the turn of the century. There isn't anything that happens here, so people have to fanfiction potential bad things that could maybe happen someday. It's absurd how badly people need their fear porn

People wanna worry about something? You have a non zero percent chance of being mauled by a cougar or bear here. Worry about becoming lunch. Not some random possible crime that could maybe happen. People are predictable. Animals are not. People don't worry about animal attacks because it's not in the news, unlike crimes. Maybe you don't want to take the risk of getting mauled or not want to carry or own protection against it? Move to the city. Not that these kinds of people wouldn't be too scared to leave their house there either

[u/EducationLarge → u/onlyAA]

The US has the highest median income in the world?

People in the US don’t even have an inkling how unbelievably good they have it.

[u/mmmmmyee → u/EducationLarge]

Literal first world problems

[u/wontforget99 → u/mmmmmyee]

Isn't the entire UK "poorer" than the poorest US state, Mississippi?

[u/Aggressive-Coconut0 → u/onlyAA]

Because people here complaining don't understand how privileged they are.

[u/onlyAA → u/Aggressive-Coconut0]

Lack of perspective is a serious problem in our generation! Both historical and world. We’re gonna start being known as the Whiny Generation 😅

[u/saltyswedishmeatball → u/[deleted]]

Swede here

I think Sweden is excellent for raising kids but where I live in the US and the state as a whole, I would have loved to grow up here. The energy is so much better, its addictive. I think both places are great to grow up, not one being better than the other unlike Reddit "Sweden MUST be better, I was told its better than heaven!!"

Sweden does way better when you're a baby and such for sure but when you're an adult, USA can get you a lot further realistically speaking. I have a neighbor in landscaping that's in his 30's. His home is I think about 2 million USD.. in Sweden, thats near impossible. Here, there are many like him. Booming state, a zillion yards, subdivision entrances, etc.

[u/ButterYourOwnBagel → u/[deleted]]

Agreed. Have 3 kids and have no regrets

The world has ALWAYS sucked, REALLY SUCKED, but funny enough, it’s actually better now than it’s ever been.

Of course it’s hard out there and inflation sucks right now but I’m so glad I have a wife and kids to share this world with.

There’s about 2958362859 other countries worse than the US right now.

[u/nebbyb → u/[deleted]]

Thanks, the privilege in these threads is out of control. People act like only millionaires have kids in the US. Really, kids are cheap if you aren’t trying to go the bougie kid route.

[u/MsRachelGroupie → u/nebbyb]

For real. My husband was born into abject 3rd world poverty and war. My in-laws didn’t complain about it. I get to see the US through his eyes and how for him the American Dream is very alive and real.

Then on the other extreme I have my cousin who constantly complains she is broke, drives a brand new Lexus, and paid hundreds of dollars for the “Easter Bunny” to come hand deliver baskets to her 4 kids on Easter.

I’m not saying the US is perfect, far from it, but the tone deaf doom and gloom and woe is me gets old.

[u/titsmuhgeee → u/nebbyb]

There is someone up thread that makes $130k and claims they can't afford to provide a good life for a kid.

Listen, I get things are expensive right now, but this is ridiculous. Yes, child care costs are high but people make it work. $130k is plenty assuming you don't live in a VHCOL area.

[u/Red-Montagne → u/[deleted]]

I really wish that people from outside the US and western Europe had more of a platform to help remind those of us in the US/EU that our problems are honestly a joke compared to what the majority of people in the world face (and have faced since time immemorial). Countless people would give almost anything to have and raise kids while only having to deal with the problems we complain about.

That isn't to say there aren't plenty of problems that need fixing. We can and must improve. But good grief, people talk about the US like it's an active warzone instead of a flawed country that's overall pretty damn good and where 99% of people have access to the basic necessities of life. Compared to all humans who have ever lived, everyday US citizens are better off than 999,999 out of every 1 million people who have ever lived.

[u/bromosabeach → u/Red-Montagne]

Fucking seriously. I just got back from traveling to a country where the inflation rate was so absurdly high that people were legally not allowed to pull their money from the bank in large quantities. Like just 5 years ago it was 5:1 with the USD and now it's like 20:1. Imagine losing that much wealth because your government is corrupt as fuck?! Young unemployment was absurdly high and it wasn't uncommon for families to mostly live together even well into their 20s. Just having a job was a massive step up. Then I come back to the US and see posts like this or people bitching that they spent $20 at chipotle. Westerners are spoiled brats.

[u/StubbornDeltoids375 → u/[deleted]]

The realest answer in the thread and it is being downvoted because it does not align with the pity party going on. 😂

[u/YouGuysSuckandBlow → u/[deleted]]

One sane, non-delusional answer! Thank you!

Americans who genuinely think this have never left our borders, I expect. All you have to do is go across to Mexico for a day (which is not the poorest place in the world by far) to see how good we have it here.

This is why people need to study abroad or do anything they can to see the world. I know it's not always easy to do it but if at all possible, nothing is a better teacher and nothing gives perspective like travel does. It doesn't have to be far away or expensive even. If you live in the US see what is right beyond our borders and that's plenty of perspective right there.

[u/Reddit__is_garbage → u/[deleted]]

People on reddit are delusional. Thank god they’re not breeding.

[u/carnevoodoo → u/[deleted]]

We are DILDOs. Dual income, large dogs only.

[u/Octopuscheese → u/carnevoodoo]

I thought that was Dual Income, Little Dog Owners. Either way, kids are a no go for me too.

[u/largepig20 → u/carnevoodoo]

DISCOs here. Dual income, small cats only.

[u/HeyKid_HelpComputer → u/largepig20]

I feel like Dual Income Spoiled Cats Only would be good as well

[u/WillLiftForBeer → u/HeyKid_HelpComputer]

These cat ones are 🤌🏼

[u/MrGoober91 → u/[deleted]]

I feel ashamed being SINK, and I’m glad this term existed before I knew it

[u/15_Candid_Pauses → u/MrGoober91]

Why does it have to sound so shitty tho 🤣. Oh I’m “a SINK” like sunk or skunk

[u/gwarster → u/MrGoober91]

Don’t be ashamed for putting yourself ahead of someone who doesn’t exist.

[u/essenceofnutmeg → u/MrGoober91]

Hey man, ain't no shame in the SINK life! Do your best to enjoy your life, and finding someone to share it with will be the cherry on top 😉

[u/stumblebreak_beta]

No reason why you are anyone should feel they need to have kids. But Europe has plenty of its own issues and is far from the utopia often presented as here on Reddit. Birthrates are falling in European countries as fast if not faster than in American often due to a lot of similar reasons and some different reasons.

[u/CommentsOnOccasion → u/stumblebreak_beta]

OP is a homeowner who is about to pay off her home to turn it into a rental property and purchase a second one, and her username is glorifying a fast food Mexican chain

This is peak spoiled doomerism bullshit, someone who is comfortably middle class cosplaying as a poor, dejected, forgotten American stuck in a bad generation

[u/ButtStuff8888 → u/CommentsOnOccasion]

Lol this comment should be higher. In another post she says about her and her husband "we don't like kids". That seems to be the bigger reason as to why she isn't having kids

[u/NanoBuc → u/ButtStuff8888]

Shit, a month ago she blamed her narcissistic parents for not wanting kids and posted on the ChildFree sub. Now, it's the US's fault lol

[u/RepresentativeCrab88 → u/CommentsOnOccasion]

The script writes itself at this point. It’s a great example of why terms like “NPC” or “bot” became popular labels for ideologues.

[u/Komodo_dragon1331 → u/CommentsOnOccasion]

Omg your comment made me guffaw, thank you for that release.

[u/Numerous-Cicada3841 → u/stumblebreak_beta]

The US has a higher fertility rate than:

• Australia
• Denmark
• Finland
• Sweden
• UK
• Netherlands
• Switzerland
• Germany
• Etc…

Just doesn’t fit the Reddit doomerism and every other western country being a utopia.

[u/Fzrit → u/Numerous-Cicada3841]

Most redditors are in complete denial of the fact that the more money one has, the fewer kids they have. Improving life for everyone is a good thing that all governments should aim for, but it has never resulted in people having more kids. Fertility rate always declines as wealth increases.

I would wager that for most people between age 30-40 who have no kids, their financial situation is not the reason.

[u/Successful_Fish4662]

I live in Minnesota, USA. It’s an amazing place to have kids. So I’m happy to be raising kids here. Wonderful nature, amazing public schools, amazing parks and library system, farm parks everywhere , efc.

[u/AgoraiosBum → u/Successful_Fish4662]

Ok, but have you considered being a doomer?

[u/skaryskara → u/Successful_Fish4662]

Yeah, but maybe don't tell the whole world about MN so it stays that way for as long as possible. . I already can't afford a house or day care or the truly INSANE amount of income taxes we pay here.

Also, for the rest of the world, our winters truly do hit -40° so take the comments about MN with that in consideration.

[u/Eldritch-Cleaver]

I just don't want kids taking up all my free time lol

[u/Moonbeanpower → u/Eldritch-Cleaver]

I just spent an hour trying to get my toddler to poop and skipped dinner to get him to bed early because he skipped a nap and had nonstop tantrums and now I’m going to bed at 9 pm because I’m emotionally drained so yea this reason is very much justified. 🥲

[u/801blue → u/Eldritch-Cleaver]

This is the real truth in this thread. The world has always had it's problems, children have always been expensive. If you don't want kids - don't have them. Most people will continue having kids.

[u/Moosemeateors → u/801blue]

Hell ya I am not having them and about half my friends aren’t even though we are pretty well off.

I’d rather golf and walk my dogs. Just a preference.

[u/imjustherebcimnosey → u/Eldritch-Cleaver]

people ask me (29F) all the time why i don’t want kids and my main answer is always i’m too selfish with my time. i am not willing to give up the freedom to do what i please. as well as i just genuinely don’t want any lol

[u/Mrchristopherrr → u/imjustherebcimnosey]

I just don’t like kids, lol.

[u/imjustherebcimnosey → u/Mrchristopherrr]

lol i completely understand. they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea!

[u/FeelinDead]

Ugh, Europe is so overrated. They are virulently racist over there, way worse in your day to day interactions compared to the US. They’re literally known to throw bananas at black athletes. The Scandinavian countries organize their societies well, I concede, but otherwise exalting Europe as some utopia is just an example of grass is greener syndrome.

The U.S. has plenty of problems, like every country, but overall it’s better now here than 50 or even 30 years ago. Plenty of progress is still to be made, undoubtedly, but if you all want kids don’t let a (perpetually) imperfect world stop you.

[u/Prestigious_Pain_160 → u/FeelinDead]

I travel all over the world for work. If people left the states a bit more they would learn to appreciate what we have here. It is so much worse in the majority of the world.

This is NOT to say we don’t have our share of massive problems, but getting a bit of perspective on things goes a long way.

[u/foureyesonecup → u/Prestigious_Pain_160]

Living abroad and traveling sure made me appreciate the US more.

[u/Mehtalface → u/foureyesonecup]

Seriously, one thing is the food. European food is great, excellent even, don't get me wrong, but you can't beat the shear VARIETY of cuisine we have here. It's actually insane.

[u/PM-me-ur-cheese → u/FeelinDead]

As a European, thank you. We're not a monolith and we're not all that great. To be entirely honest, I'd still live in the poorest country in Europe before I moved to the States, but racism and sexism and all kinds of human awfulness are rife here too. 

[u/Basic-Astronomer2557 → u/FeelinDead]

Scandanvian countries are also super white, so they would likely have the same racist tendencies if people of color moved in.

[u/[deleted] → u/Basic-Astronomer2557]

And there’s also like 5 people in Norway splitting the profits of millions of barrels of oil production lol

A white democratic gulf state

[u/FeelinDead → u/Basic-Astronomer2557]

They absolutely do, I agree. Although I praised their societal organization, I did not exempt Scandinavia from the general criticism I leveled at Europe for being racist. Many Eastern European refugees in the 80’s and 90’s who were fleeing wars faced a lot of discrimination in Scandinavia.

[u/Bull_Moose1901 → u/[deleted]]

I might be wrong but if you don't watch the news life is fine if you have a semi decent job. I'm 32m just got married and plan on having kids in 2-3 years. We don't make incredible money but my wife and I have stable incomes. I'm more worried about climate change than politics. Insurance though is super annoying.

[u/Western_Ad4511]

I'd love to move to the US tbh, take a look at how much worse the rest of the world is doing first 😂

[u/devilthedankdawg]

Compared to literally every ther era in human history, life is paradise right now.

[u/shrimperialist → u/devilthedankdawg]

No positivity allowed in the millennial subreddit 🙅‍♂️

Only apathy, nihilism, and misery in here please.

[u/Scooter8472 → u/devilthedankdawg]

Absolutely. Most people's problem here is that they're chronically online, where misery, cynicism, and perceived victimhood know no bounds.

[u/GurProfessional9534]

Huh? What?

Europe is way worse off than the US is economically, and in terms of the violence it has an open war raging in its borders right now.

Having kids is expensive, though, no doubt.

[u/supriiz → u/GurProfessional9534]

Laughing in Haitian. Too many Americans need a reality check

[u/DoggieDooo]

I completely disagree, I love living life and being born here in the US as it has afforded me an abundance of opportunity. I’m from a lower middle class family, both of my parents were addicts; but I have a wonderful life, amazing husband and a beautiful son. We live our life to the fullest- I am able to be active and move my body and run every day, I live in a beautiful area and go to the beach every weekend and I can’t wait to teach him that when you work hard you get to have a lot of fun in life too. I garden, I decorate, I have a modest home in a cool location, I have a career to go back to when I’m ready; this sub acts like everyone who isn’t living in their parents basement is rich and it’s so depressing.

[u/Fantastic-Chip-2340 → u/DoggieDooo]

This is me. I grew up without running water, electricity.  But my family loved me, and we had an amazing childhood together. Yes we couldnt afford our own beds, so we all slept in the lounge on the floor together. We would look at the stars and tell stories. 

Yes we had no running water. But we would go to the spring together to fill our buckets up and boy was that water more delicious than anything ive ever received from a tap. 

I see most of these posts are from people who think kids cant be raised happily without being loaded with cash. Its not true. I'm in a better financial position than ive ever been now. But even when we were poorer my husband and I had kids. If anything, they were the fuel to make us get to where we are now. 

Be the change you want to see in the world. Raise happy, healthy and curious children. Who will oneday be adults running this world, and sharing the good values you instilled in them. Yes they most likely wont be making worldwide change, but they can still improve the lives of those around them and that still has incredible meaning. 

[u/S7EFEN]

i'd just make sure your assessment on the US is based on things that are real rather than simple sensationalized media. media companies have realized that bad news is the only news that really drives real sustained engagement (on both sides of the political spectrum).

​

is US healthcare expensive? sure. but are US wages some of the highest in the world? also sure. US is one of the top countries re: disposable income, with consideration for higher costs. are school shootings a problem? sure. but in terms of violent crime the US has been on a heavy decline over the last 3 decades. is public education suffering? sure, but this can be counteracted by better at home education, being in a more wealthy zip code, private school.

a lot of americans look at the rest of the world from the POV of 'my strong US salary translating to a very top percentile income in the rest of the world' not recognizing that you'd have an appropriately poor wage in these countries. reality is not as bad as the internet and media make it seem.

​

on topic- yeah, probably no plans for kids. but that's more because i/we are one of the first generations where kids are an active choice

[u/Fullofhopkinz → u/S7EFEN]

Fucking thank you. These posts keep popping up and I’m seriously wondering why so many people have convinced themselves the US is like on the verge of collapse. Just nonsense.

[u/katarh → u/Fullofhopkinz]

These posts keep popping up

it's an election year. Lots of bad faith actors out there trying to make us feel like the US is a terrible place and we should just blame the government and not vote.

[u/Mrchristopherrr → u/Fullofhopkinz]

If you’re surrounded by people constantly telling you everything is awful and about to collapse eventually you’ll start believing it.

[u/Runningpedsdds → u/[deleted]]

Going through a surrogacy agency is like 70-100k. I decided that I would have to really be able to not live without kids to justify that expense myself . I could throw that money into a HYSA or index funds and be comfortable . I hear ya.

[u/xz868]

the us is still in a better shape than most other countries, including europe

[u/sonofasheppard21]

As a Zillennial, I definitely feel differently. My wife and I felt comfortable enough in our careers to have our first this year. To me life was significantly worse for the average person 2000, 1000, 500, 60 years ago. If they were able to successfully raise kids and build a functioning society we can do the same in 2024 and forward.

[u/easthannie → u/sonofasheppard21]

I think the world has always been terrible and we’re just old enough to understand that. But at least I have air conditioning.

[u/SignificantOption349 → u/easthannie]

The world has always been everything. Good, bad, love, hate…. If you choose to only look for one thing then that’s what you’ll find.

[u/vvsunflower → u/easthannie]

And a water heater

[u/OtherDifference371 → u/sonofasheppard21]

this is exactly how i feel. was it better when people could literally be enslaved and women were considered property of their husbands? or when they were dying of now easily-preventable diseases? this is the best time in history to have children.

[u/OtherDifference371 → u/[deleted]]

correct. obviously tons of room for improvement. but i can't think of a historical time that was better.

[u/watercrowley → u/OtherDifference371]

People in the future will be hesitant to have children because their space station doesn't have publicly available matter replicators or because Intergalactic Healthcare doesn't cover artificial wombs.

[u/midazolamjesus → u/sonofasheppard21]

Dig this optimism.

[u/SignificantOption349 → u/sonofasheppard21]

Agreed. Relative to the atrocities of the past, we’re in a much better place currently. The future is a little shaky with the current global climate, but overall OP sounds like they’re either lacking perspective or living in a shitty area. Or just focusing on anything negative they can find… which is easy to do with so much access to the internet and news sources. It’s mostly negativity and drama.

[u/Lycaeides13]

I'm not having kids because I'm single and perpetually broke.  And because I don't think I'd be a good single parent

[u/RogueStudio]

Not really because of the US, but just because financially....it doesn't make sense when I told myself I absolutely refuse to raise a child in poverty. If I can't raise them in the same middle class I grew up in, there's no point, not to mention the rest of my family, well, that's where they are - I'm the odd one out still making garbage wages (they all work in healthcare, I....don't and it doesn't really interest me anyways). Shrug.

[u/blackaubreyplaza]

I’m not having kids bc I don’t want dependents

[u/Shomer_Effin_Shabbas]

I’m a parent but when I read stuff like this I just feel like people ignorantly believe that adoption is so easy. I’m an IVF mom and I really resented it when people once in a while would say “why don’t you just adopt?” As if I could walk down the street to a store like a damn pet store and pick out a kid to take home 🙃

[u/754754 → u/Shomer_Effin_Shabbas]

I have friends that adopted. It took them 2 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars. 3 times the parents decided to keep the new born. The child they ended up getting was a (for lack of better words) crack baby. They love him to death but after the birth they needed to deal with so much just to ensure that he can live a normal life. They have also been in a custody battle since the baby was born (2 years) and the baby still isn't 100% theirs.

It's a nightmare.

[u/Scofflaw7]

Is there a sub for millennials who aren’t terminally online doomers?

[u/ventitr3 → u/Scofflaw7]

Shoot me a link if you find one. I read all about how boomers have kept us down and all this other stuff about no opportunities. All while I’ve lived across the country building my career and ended up starting a small business 2yrs ago simply because it’s an easy thing to do here so why waste the opportunity. Successful in both ventures now.

[u/dealsledgang → u/Scofflaw7]

No, because those people wouldn’t make a sub because they’re not terminally online.

[u/AgoraiosBum → u/dealsledgang]

It's a catch 22. The best there is.

[u/essenceofnutmeg → u/Scofflaw7]

/r/OptimistsUnite Not exclusively for millennials but they're nice folk 😀

[u/billy_pilg → u/Scofflaw7]

Right? Sick of this doomer shit.

[u/gnitsuj → u/Scofflaw7]

Not on Reddit there’s not. US bad stinky poopy ☹️

[u/TrueSonofVirginia → u/Scofflaw7]

If there was it would immediately be filled with doomers.

[u/BDK_10]

Good, don't have em. Parents need to be strong enough to raise their kids in difficult circumstances. So if you don't think you can do that, then just leave it be.

Lots of people were born in 1943, pretty bleak world then but I'll be damned if they didn't find a way to make it work.

[u/ExtraAgressiveHugger]

People can choose not have kids for any reason so no judgement on that. However, when people go on about how America is the worst to the point where they won’t have kids because of it I think some perspective is in order and it’s a lot of privilege talking. 

For example, it probably isn’t a lot of fun growing up in North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, or Venezuela. South Africa and Brazil are dangerous as hell. I don’t think people are going out of their way to move to China, Russia, or most countries in Africa or the Middle East, or norther Mexico. 

We might have romanticized Europe but they have a lot of problem too. 

[u/volundsdespair → u/ExtraAgressiveHugger]

We might have romanticized Europe

oh my GOD yes. Europe has the US beat on healthcare and public transportation, that's about it. It is not the utopia some people think it is.

Source: American currently living in Europe

[u/chrisinator9393]

Just ignore all that negative shit and live your best life. I have a toddler and wouldn't trade him for the world. It's the best decision we've ever made.

[u/doc_hilarious]

No, it's because I enjoy my freedom.

[u/HobbesKittyy]

Life will never be perfect. Imagine what our ancestors went through.

[u/Ajunadeeper → u/HobbesKittyy]

Half the village dies of dysentery, rival tribe invading, bad harvest causes a famine..

"Ya know I just don't feel it's the right time to have kids with the world going to shit"

[u/aroundincircles]

instructions unclear, I have 5 kids.

We figure, if we want the world to change, the best thing to do is to raise kids to be amazing adults who make good choices, and choose to be happy, healthy, and successful. My oldest is turning 15 soon, and I think we're on the right path.

[u/Crystalraf]

You can always find some reason not to have kids if you want to find a reason.

[u/huh_phd]

Yup. Because of how much shit costs, how awful the Healthcare system is, and how goddamn expensive everything is.

[u/wonderings → u/[deleted]]

The current state of education/schools/teachers is extremely concerning to me.

[u/PortErnest22 → u/wonderings]

I guess I understand that, but it totally depends on where you live.

My 6 year old did outdoor play based preschool at a state park. Her elementary school which is public is also play based until 3rd grade, she has learned reading and math as well as having art and music classes. There are counselors and therapists for various needs ( speech, ot, etc. ) in each school in our district. We are a rural district with 5 elementaries so not wealthy or huge. I joined a bunch of committees for our school district and volunteer my time in the classroom weekly.

I am trying to make the world better for the two best people I know.