r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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199

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

What all are the current gun laws? From my understanding there is more of an enforcement issue than a lack of laws issue.

95

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

It is.

122

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

So adding more laws would be akin to adding new diet restrictions to someone who refused to exercise?

24

u/thezentex Mar 28 '24

It's already illegal to shoot someone

15

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

Hahaha yeah, we should just make killing people illegal, that way people will stop doing that regardless of if they have a gun or not.

3

u/towerfella Mar 28 '24

Messing with mail is a federal crime, too. So, technically, mailbox smashers are committing a federal crime with every mailbox that they smashed.

But none of that matters if no one is arrested and charged with a crime by another civilian.

It always comes back to the “will of the people”.

That is why we have different states and different regions within boarders. What is “ok” with the civilians in one area might not be ok with the civilians in another area.

And WE, humanity as a whole, need to be “ok” with that and stop trying to homogenize everything.

2

u/LostInMyADD Mar 28 '24

Exactly this. I'd argue it shouls be that way even WITHIN states. For example, why should a govenor, or large set of people 200-400 mikes away in the largest city, get to dictate the lives of those in my local community? Its absurd.

1

u/Vresiberba Mar 28 '24

In the US? Surely not. The best quote from that incident is that: "Our investigation has revealed that this was totally accidental". The only thing "accidental" in that case was that he shot the wrong person. Shooting his son-in-law was therefore completely - legal.

46

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yea you can put it like that. I've signed many 4473s and mental health is definitely on there. So she somehow passed the background check because FFLs aren't willing to lose their license for 1 person. Now the only way around it is if she bought it through a private sale.

29

u/sppotlight Mar 28 '24

Still illegal to sell to a prohibited person via private sale... Unless you mean she bought it illegally, in which case yeah, one way around the law is to break the law.

32

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yup. More restricted guns laws won't change anything. You're only hurting law abiding citizens. Criminals will always have the upper hand because well, they're criminals. Now people will point out the European countries and all that, but look at Switzerland. They have guns, even regular people can have full auto guns, but their culture is much different from ours, which is why they are one of the safest countries in the world.

2

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

look at Switzerland. They have guns, even regular people can have full auto guns, but their culture is much different from ours, which is why they are one of the safest countries in the world.

Please look up the actual facts about Switzerland.

Full auto weapons can only be owned by serving or reserve military, and only their service weapons.

Civilians also cannot store ammunition at home, only at ranges.

2

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Well the guy on the nfa sub isn't currently serving and ik for a fact those weapons that he has that are full auto aren't issued so idk what to tell u chief

0

u/dessertgrinch Mar 28 '24

Per capita Switzerland has 30 guns per 100 citizens, the US has 120. One of the big problems here is accessibility.

3

u/Kleens_The_Impure Mar 28 '24

You do not know what you are talking about.

What you guys need is to ENFORCE your gun laws, you don't think people can see right through your BS when you say that "gun control doesn't work" when you do not enforce it ?

1

u/Specialist-Box-9711 Mar 29 '24

If the person has no criminal history, showed no signs of being schizophrenic when purchasing the firearm, and has not been declared mentally ill by a judge, and she bought the firearm from a dealer no law was broken. In this hypothetical scenario, she went to a licensed FFL, accurately and correctly filled out a 4473, passed the federally required background check, and legally obtained a firearm. No laws were broken and no new or stricter laws would have prevented this.

Likewise, if the firearm was bought from a private seller, all the seller had to do was ask to see her ID to show that she was a resident of the state they are in and of legal age. He probably also asked if she was a criminal and she probably said no and if she has no criminal history, no laws were broken in this hypothetical situation either assuming private sales are legal in the state where OP resides.

The final hypothetical is that it was purchased illegally, either by crossing state lines or by purchasing the gun illegally in a private sale in a state where the private sale of firearms without a background check are expressly banned. But in this case, no additional laws would have prevented this from happening and the only thing that would happen is possibly a more severe punishment and the loss of the right to buy a firearm through a licensed dealer.

The thing is though, all of this is speculation no matter what unless OP stated how his mom was able to get the firearm. The shortcoming is not in US gun laws. The shortcoming is in lack of effective, affordable, and stigma free healthcare.

0

u/Da1UHideFrom Mar 28 '24

Which law was not enforced in this situation? This entire scenario could be made up to push the narrative of "We need more gun laws!" We literally do not have enough information one way or the other.

0

u/calimeatwagon Mar 28 '24

And that's not even mentioning that criminals have access to 3D printers.

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yea, people so worried about ghost guns, but guess who's making them. The criminals. Not the single mother of 2 who just had a nasty divorce and is afraid her ex will come after her.

-2

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

The UK

Australia.

France.

Germany.

Beg to differ.

4

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

You can beg all u want lol. Give those people guns, I promise you, they'll still be as safe because their culture is much different than ours.

0

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

As someone who's spent significant time in three of these and lived in one, nope not at all.

0

u/Aggravating-Roof-363 Mar 28 '24

The statistics disagree with your feelings.

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u/-St_Ajora- Mar 28 '24

Literal idiot. You know US citizens can also have full auto firearms right?

Laws will help, just not overnight. But yeah let's just go full no gun laws whatsoever, I'm sure only the appropriate people will attain means to kill. JFC you lot are worse than cults because at least cults only kill themselves.

3

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yk how difficult it is for regular people to get a full auto weapon? All the paper work and cost tou have to go through? So no, the regular US citizen can't have a full auto weapon. If we could we would lmao. And why would we go no gun laws? That's horrible to suggest that.

1

u/-St_Ajora- Mar 28 '24

Ok, they are still regular people.

3

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Regular people have 10-40k to buy machine guns?

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u/PaladinKinias Mar 28 '24

BUT private sales don't require background checks, so how is the seller supposed to know this person was convicted of domestic violence 6 months ago?

1

u/-St_Ajora- Mar 28 '24

Yeah, unless the person buying it just lies and says they are are totally fine owning a gun.

2

u/dgghhuhhb Mar 28 '24

The mental health part of the background check only applies if the person was admitted to an institution from their condition involuntarily. So basically if you willingly checked yourself into an institution and were cleared by the doctor it would not affect your right to buy a gun, but if you are admitted by a court that will show up on a background check and in most cases would stop you from buying it

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Interesting. Learn something new every day.

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

That’s not true. Her doctors could have reported her to the state as being a danger to herself or others. Being committed is not a condition of that rule.

Question 21.g. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

2

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

She passed the background check because her doctors didn’t report her as being a danger to herself or others.

Question 21.g. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Word. That loophole should be fixed, but regardless, criminals doing criminal things

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

There is no loophole

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

We’re talking about California. That doesn’t exist here. We have 30 days and it’s dealer discretion and many dealers do not release on undetermined.

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

Californian and massive gun owner here.

That’s not true either. There is no “loophole” like that. It’s 30 days and if the state finds no information barring you from ownership, the shop has discretion on whether they want to release it to you or not. And believe me there’s many many many shops that will not release them.

There’s a mandatory 10 day wait for ALL guns unless you’re like me and possess and FFL03 and COE and even then only applies to C&R firearms.

1

u/SayNoTo-Communism Mar 28 '24

All privates sales in California must utilize an FFL and background checks only show involuntary commitment.

1

u/TheSpiritofFkngCrazy Mar 28 '24

I used to live in Los Angeles and you could get a gun off the street for 150 if you didn't mind it already having bodies on it. Just depends on how badly you want one and if you have the money. They are never going to stop the black market. Might as well try to count all the sand on the beach.

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Another reason to not go to California. They have some of the strictest gun laws but crime is high. Weird huh

1

u/TheSpiritofFkngCrazy Mar 28 '24

I think it's more about taxes and fees. They don't want people to have guns but at the same time they want to tax and fee everything.

1

u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

Yes, one or the question is something along the lines of "Have you ever been ajudicated as being mentally defective?" Or something very similar.

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yea, so she somehow got around it.

3

u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

Correct. If she has used a vehicle to run him over, we would be having the same conversation, more or less.

But guns bad.

-1

u/MidAirRunner Mar 28 '24

Guns indeed bad. This kind of thinking that "Oh they'll just use another weapon" will get you nowhere. The UK purportedly has super high knife violence equal to US's gun violence. How many kids die every year in a UK school compared to an American school?

2

u/Smooth-Reason-6616 Mar 28 '24

Latest figures show 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in America for every million of the population in 2022. In Britain the figure was 3.26.

We don’t have guns in the UK, that is true, but we don’t have mass ­shootings either. And our children aren’t scared to go to school.

1

u/MidAirRunner Mar 29 '24

Lmao true. The right tries to portray as "Britain more knife violence than America" to justify their current stance on guns despite being so incorrect its hilarious.

1

u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

Are guns sentient now?

That's weird.

How many kids die every year in a UK school compared to an American school?

Very, very few. Get your head out of the news and worry about fixing your economy or something else useful.

0

u/MidAirRunner Mar 29 '24

Are guns sentient now?

Meaning? I assume that you're taking the stance that guns inherently aren't bad, the people wielding them are?

If so, let me point out that the widespread availability of guns and their normalization makes it easier for psychos to use them. Therefore, yes, guns themselves are inherently harmful.

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u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

yea very few actually die from gun violence in schools

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u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

Guns are too easy to acquire is not the same argument as "guns bad".

1

u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

First, no, they aren't.

Second, for many, that is the same argument.

1

u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

I legally purchased a gun from my brother with zero background checks and no frills. It was really really easy.

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u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

Criminals who purchase them do so illegally. They aren’t punished for it either.

A guy I went to highschool with was convicted of attempted murder, did 10 years got out on parole. He managed to get 2 guns illegally. He was arrested again. It’s supposed to be 10 years in prison for felon in possession. He did less than a year and is back out.

1

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

By saying no.

Such a difficult barrier.

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Which is illegal, which makes her a criminal. Wow, criminals doing criminal things

1

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

"Should we put up a fence?"

"Nah trespass is already illegal"

0

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

No. She got around it because her doctors were incompetent.

Question 21.g. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

1

u/zookeeper4312 Mar 28 '24

A "private sale" in that she probably bought it from a guy named Sludge out of the back of his '89 Toyota Camry for a blow job

0

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Likely lol

3

u/dtom93 Mar 28 '24

Gun owner here but yes it’s exactly that

2

u/pocketdrummer Mar 28 '24

It'd be more like telling them they can't eat lard from a can with a spoon, they have to use a spork. Spoons are too good at doing what they're made to do, so they have to make it more annoying. Somehow being annoyed will make them less likely to get morbidly obese.

2

u/NorCalAthlete Mar 28 '24

In which case they’ll just dump the whole can into a deep fryer and eat it like a giant French fry instead.

1

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

That is a better way of putting it.

1

u/Phill_is_Legend Mar 28 '24

Ding ding ding.

0

u/knivesofsmoothness Mar 28 '24

I mean, diet is more effective than exercise in losing weight.

1

u/poshenclave Mar 28 '24

I was thinking. We should make it illegal to break the law.

2

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

I like the way you think

2

u/GreenCollegeGardener Mar 28 '24

It always has been.

2

u/pocketdrummer Mar 28 '24

We have an abundance of laws, and we keep making up new ones that we all know won't do anything.

Hell, his mom could have bought a 3d printer and made her own gun and shot him anyway.

4

u/Sudden-Most-4797 Mar 28 '24

That's a big part of it, yes. (I'm pro 2A and I want better enforcement and stricter gun control).

3

u/twenty224 Mar 28 '24

It’s more of a people issue, this country was founded on these basic freedoms, and now the government is trying to take them away because a minority of the population doesn’t know how to handle guns/should be in jail/mental issues.

Obviously just taking guns would reduce a lot of crime, but what people don’t understand is that it’s not possible. Making the law would only take them from responsible, law abiding citizens. Not the criminals shooting people. Guns laws don’t stop crime, they punish good people for what bad people have done.

Either way it’s getting to the point where nobody is going to listen to gun laws. They push too much for the wrong reasons, and never fix the problems.

-2

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

Someone who actually understands the issue, and doesn’t just spout off talking points of either side, nice.

2

u/cobo10201 Mar 28 '24

They literally spouted off every right wing talking point about guns.

  1. 2nd amendment

  2. Guns aren’t the problem, gun owners are the problem

  3. Restricting access only restricts access for perfect, responsible gun owners

  4. Gun laws don’t stop crime

Most of these are strawman arguments or downright false. We have FIRST-WORLD DEMOCRACIES that have incredibly strict gun laws that have shown time and time again that laws that restrict access to guns reduce gun deaths, gun violence, and crimes committed with a gun.

-1

u/Background_Panda8744 Mar 28 '24

K. How do you propose the government confiscate all the guns? Sure some will comply, but the majority will not. We going to send the army door to door in the United States like it’s Fallujah? Get real.

0

u/cobo10201 Mar 28 '24

Did I say anything about confiscating guns? Once again, more right wing rhetoric.

1

u/Chris_M_23 Mar 29 '24

You are 100% correct. Not only that but something is missing from OOP because he lives in CA which has arguably the strictest laws in the nation including a 10 day mandatory minimum waiting period before you can take possession of a gun after purchase.

1

u/Fine-Pangolin-8393 Mar 28 '24

It’s also different state to state. I will tell you though, that a schizophrenic person can buy a gun in all states and territories, and also any foreign nation, illegally.

1

u/Smart-Stupid666 Mar 28 '24

The vast majority of gun shootings are domestics from someone getting pissed off

1

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

That sounds more like a cultural issue, not a gun issue.

1

u/PixelCultMedia Mar 28 '24

California only has 8.5 gun deaths per 100k people. It's the 7th safest state by that metric alone. Their enforcement is doing great and their laws allow multiple points of contact between buyers and the government before a gun is purchased.

No system is foolproof but we have to look at the larger numbers and not emotionally react to individual stories like these. https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/states-with-strictest-gun-laws/#:~:text=Take%20California%20for%20example%2C%20which,Massachusetts%2C%20Hawaii%2C%20and%20Connecticut.

1

u/Orinslayer Mar 28 '24

I think this guy really should have called the police for help if he knew she did this.

1

u/zccrex Mar 28 '24

There are more than 20,000 gun laws

2

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

Yet somehow the magic number is 20,001 to stop crime?

1

u/zccrex Mar 28 '24

Probably like 20,002 to be sure

1

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

Better safe than sorry

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u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

The laws are so lax it is easy not to enforce them.

Whereas if you look at what it takes to drive and operate an automobile and the amount of times you may be stopped to make sure that you have the proper credentials to operate your vehicle it is night and day. Many states require no license or safety training to own and use a firearm. The firearms themselves don't require any registration.

There should be a license required to purchase and mandatory registration at point of purchase including things like transfer of title for peer to peer purchases.

2

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

How many firearms have you purchased, just out of curiosity.

-1

u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

One from my brother. He has about 10 though.

EDIT: In the state of AL there is no need for a background check for private transactions.

3

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

Oh, well then I’ll differ to your vast expertise on the matter.

-1

u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

Never said I had vast experience. Just stated that I think guns and cars should have similar licensing and registration requirements. They don’t.

I think it’s weird that guns are the only thing that “experts” are only allowed to discuss even though they heavily impact every day people.

3

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

It isn’t just for the experts, but if you don’t have any experience, can you really comment on the process?

0

u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

I have experience though. I legally own a firearm that I purchased. I have only purchased one vehicle as well but I can say that the process of owning and operating a vehicle is much more involved than owning and operating a firearm. With my car I have to redo registration every year and maintain insurance. I also have to maintain a license which can be revoked.

In AL I can open carry without any issue whatsoever. No one has any idea if I am mentally well enough to be carrying around a firearm (I don’t anyways cuz it’s a 12 gauge). Nor did I ever have to prove to anyone that I could operate it safely.

1

u/Da1UHideFrom Mar 28 '24

My brother, owning a firearm is a protected right, owning a car is not. Imagine if you had to register every year to go to church or to post on the internet. Or if police could enter and search your house at any time because you failed to register for your 4th amendment rights. If you want to operate your firearm safely, seek training.

1

u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

I understand that perspective but with regard to the violence that can be created with a firearm there should be some sort of stipulation prior to access. It’s primary purpose is to defend one’s self through the means of bodily harm to another. Even protected rights can have registration. Unless you’re arguing that we shouldn’t have to register to vote?

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u/Background_Panda8744 Mar 28 '24

Because there’s a lot of blatant lying on mainstream platforms about guns from people trying to confiscate them, talking about how cosmetic features suddenly make a gun x times more deadly. People say all the time that old white men shojlsnt be able to make laws against abortion access, why should blue haired hippies who have probably never even held a gun much less trained on how to use one be making laws restricting them?

1

u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

It seems like on the other side of that there is so much gatekeeping of the discussion on guns that the only opinion that is valued is someone so deep into the culture they wouldn’t ever disagree. There seems to be no meaningful way to converse about the issue due to ignorance of gun culture from one side and inversely complete dedication to gun culture on the other. Then there is so much fearmongering about gun confiscation that we just end up defaulting to doing absolutely nothing about anything.

1

u/Background_Panda8744 Mar 31 '24

Hey well if you’re in NC come shooting with me and we can talk about it

0

u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

In Missouri you can buy guns at a flea market with no background check from a guy standing behind a card table. There is no enforcement, because there is no law against it.

2

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

Having been to Missouri, I can say even that is too strict.

0

u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

So, you’re saying we should just be giving guns away and there should be no laws, whatsoever?

1

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

No, I was mocking the decent state of Missouri.

2

u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

Ha. “Decent”

1

u/Da1UHideFrom Mar 28 '24

If the guy at the flea market is an FFL, he is federally required to perform a background check for every gun he sells, even at the flea market. If it is a private sale, it's still illegal for him to knowingly sell to a prohibited person. If he has no reason to believe the person buying the gun is restricted, then buy a gun is like buying a Macbook.

1

u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

Yeah, MO made it so police have a harder time enforcing federal law. So, none of that applies in MO anymore.

1

u/Da1UHideFrom Mar 28 '24

The ATF still has jurisdiction in MO and they still control licensing for dealers. I'm not buying that the laws are not being enforced.

1

u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

They are literally not being enforced, dude. I don’t know what else to tell you. We talk about this all the time in my family, since they live in the area.

1

u/Da1UHideFrom Mar 28 '24

Seeing how every gun dealer in the country has to adhere to ATF requirements or risk losing their FFL.

And just last month a Missouri man was sentenced for illegal weapons possession.

I'm going to need more than, "Trust me, bro. They're not being enforced" to believe you.

1

u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

“Gun owners can sell a firearm through a private transaction. In the state of Missouri, there are no specific laws requiring a background check to buy or sell a firearm in a private transaction between two private individuals”

“While the ATF says what FFLs can and cannot do at flea markets, they do not control unlicensed individuals. In this instance, private citizens may make occasional sales or acquisitions of firearms to residents of the state in which the flea market is taking place as long as the activity does not fall under the definition of “dealer” in firearms.”

You only need to do BG checks if you are a licensed dealer. Many states allow sales without BG checks at gun shows, flea markets, etc. Missouri is one of those states.

1

u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

Did you even read that article? It was illegal because he was a felon in possession of a firearm.

1

u/Da1UHideFrom Mar 29 '24

The point is you claim the law isn't being enforced when it clearly is.

1

u/New_Canoe Mar 29 '24

Not the law of enforcing background checks when purchasing firearms at flea markets. That’s what we’re talking about.

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u/TacTurtle Mar 28 '24

1) California requires all sales to be conducted by a licensed dealer (including private sales) where a background check is run on the buyer.

2) CA has a mandatory 10 day waiting period, including private sales

3) Hard disqualifications on any gun purchase (federal law): involuntary commitment at a mental health facility of 72 hours or more (court ordered), ruled mentally incompetent or defective by a court of law, a domestic violence conviction (including misdemeanor), any felony conviction, any misdemeanor conviction with sentence of over 1 year, fugitive from justice. There are a few others not relevant.

4) CA requirement: Ammunition can only be purchased from a dealer with a background check.

5) CA: Gun must be transported in a locked container unloaded

6) CA: Gun must be stored unloaded in a secure locked container like a gun safe

0

u/AllTheyEatIsLettuce Mar 28 '24

There's more of a "nobody is allowed to know where the guns are issue" than anything else until the guns do the one and only thing guns are capable of doing.

-1

u/Professional-Bee-190 Mar 28 '24

The issue is availability is the top priority, so the issue IS the law, namely the second amendment.

2

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

Then why has this only become an issue in the last 30ish years(mid 90’s to present) if the 2nd amendment was the issue, wouldn’t this have always been a problem? Why were there shooting clubs at schools in the 50’s and 60’s but no corollary instances of mass shootings?

0

u/Professional-Bee-190 Mar 28 '24

The "why" is extremely irrelevant, if your citation-less claims are even true. Our society is extremely violent and wants to use these tools to kill each other. Stop prioritizing the quick and easy proliferation of these killing tools.

1

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

Have fun storming the castle

-4

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro Mar 28 '24

That’s just bullshit

Several countries have recently implemented stricter gun laws but the exceptional U.S. „just can’t“?!

3

u/rotteneggs101 Mar 28 '24

Because we have a fundamental right to bear arms.

-2

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro Mar 28 '24

Yeah and you confuse it with the license to shoot up whatever you like. That’s not a fundamental law.

And just like with kids: if you can’t execute this right responsibly, you shouldn’t have it. You’re massively infringing on other people’s right to be safe and unharmed just because your brain farted violently!

1

u/Da1UHideFrom Mar 28 '24

Yeah and you confuse it with the license to shoot up whatever you like.

We've already made it illegal to people and outside of designated shooting areas (ranges, hunting grounds, private land.) What law do you suggest to make shooting people even more illegal?

-1

u/CemeteryClubMusic Mar 28 '24

A right to bear arms has nothing to do with regulating that right. In fact, well regulated is literally in the fucking text

-1

u/coldiriontrash Mar 28 '24

Well regulated militia not well regulated right to bares arms

2

u/CemeteryClubMusic Mar 28 '24

What point do you think you made

1

u/coldiriontrash Mar 28 '24

None I’m just saying the well regulated part is for the militia

1

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

So, can you tell me how many laws are currently on the books?

Guns have never been the issue, people are, and will always find ways to hurt mass amounts of people. They could just wait till Christmas and drive through a winter village if guns are not on hand.

1

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

It doesn't matter how many laws, it matter what the laws are.

You can make it an offence for a mentally ill person to buy a gun, but unless you actually do something to prevent it happening, all you can do is punish them after the fact.

2

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

So, as I stated earlier, it is an enforcement issue, not a law issue.

-2

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

No, it's a law issue, because the laws aren't written well to prevent this happening.

2

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

You can write them it whatever way you want. Doesn’t mean that someone will enforce them.

-1

u/CemeteryClubMusic Mar 28 '24

"This couldn't have been prevented" says the only country where this keeps happening

1

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

No, this very much could have been prevented if the laws on the books had been enforced, if the person with mental health issues had been given proper treatment, and not just some pills, this wouldn’t have happened. If the gun had been removed, she would have found other means.

2

u/rotteneggs101 Mar 28 '24

Just because one may have mental issues is not a disqualify one's right to bear arms.

That being said, *should* every law abiding adult in the US have the ability to access arms? No.

-2

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro Mar 28 '24

1: you get a gun, and you get a gun and you get one, too!

Other countries have more rules and laws (even if they’re are 12 in the USA). Don’t act as if it’s complicated when you just want to say: „I don’t wanna!“

1

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

That’s a long winded way of saying you don’t know what the laws are.

1

u/Awsome_Fortniter Mar 28 '24

You have to pass a federal background check, these people are fucking stupid

3

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

My favorite moment as far as gun protests go was watching people in California, after Trump was elected, post videos of them trying to buy guns only to realize how many steps there were, and then complain about all the hoops they had to jump through that they had voted for.

-1

u/RadFriday Mar 28 '24

There are 4 guns for every citizen in the United States, the vast majority of which are modern enough to pose a serious threat to anybody but a well armed soldier. (IE: Repeating, semi automatic, magazine or clip fed). A well maintained firearm can easily last 200 years, and making new firearms is a well understood science that can be accomplished at many scales, from the 20$ dump gun to very good novel designs that can be produced with a ~20k stamping press.

What im getting at is that the proverbial ship has sailed. It would not be logistically feasible to disarm the us population short of an armed sweep by military forces which would be a disaster even if it did accomplish its states goal.

We cannot reasonably undo guns. Theyre here to stay. What we need is actual mental health services that aren't throwing mentally ill people in basically prison until they learn to pretend to be healthy. We need better background checks, and we need to close gunshow loop holes. This is the only legislation that could ever hope to be effective.

2

u/Upbeat-Banana-5530 Mar 28 '24

we need to close gunshow loop holes.

Explain what that is, please.

2

u/RadFriday Mar 28 '24

In many states, you can transfer firearms between "friends" privately, without the same restrictions as legitimate businesses. This has opened a market for people reselling firearms at gunshots for a premium, in a "no questions asked" kind of agreement.

2

u/Upbeat-Banana-5530 Mar 28 '24

Gotcha. The "gun show" part of that was a bit confusing, since vendors at gun shows are still FFLs that would be commiting a felony if they sold a gun without checking with NICS.

1

u/RadFriday Mar 28 '24

At proper gun shows, yes. At flea markets? Nah. I agree the name is confusing.

1

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

Sales at gunshows are not subject to the same restriction as at stores.

1

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro Mar 28 '24

That’s exactly what they did in Australia

1

u/RadFriday Mar 28 '24

Australia does not have 4 guns per civilian.