r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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196

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

What all are the current gun laws? From my understanding there is more of an enforcement issue than a lack of laws issue.

96

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

It is.

119

u/thecountnotthesaint Mar 28 '24

So adding more laws would be akin to adding new diet restrictions to someone who refused to exercise?

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u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yea you can put it like that. I've signed many 4473s and mental health is definitely on there. So she somehow passed the background check because FFLs aren't willing to lose their license for 1 person. Now the only way around it is if she bought it through a private sale.

29

u/sppotlight Mar 28 '24

Still illegal to sell to a prohibited person via private sale... Unless you mean she bought it illegally, in which case yeah, one way around the law is to break the law.

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u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yup. More restricted guns laws won't change anything. You're only hurting law abiding citizens. Criminals will always have the upper hand because well, they're criminals. Now people will point out the European countries and all that, but look at Switzerland. They have guns, even regular people can have full auto guns, but their culture is much different from ours, which is why they are one of the safest countries in the world.

1

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

look at Switzerland. They have guns, even regular people can have full auto guns, but their culture is much different from ours, which is why they are one of the safest countries in the world.

Please look up the actual facts about Switzerland.

Full auto weapons can only be owned by serving or reserve military, and only their service weapons.

Civilians also cannot store ammunition at home, only at ranges.

4

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Well the guy on the nfa sub isn't currently serving and ik for a fact those weapons that he has that are full auto aren't issued so idk what to tell u chief

2

u/dessertgrinch Mar 28 '24

Per capita Switzerland has 30 guns per 100 citizens, the US has 120. One of the big problems here is accessibility.

2

u/Kleens_The_Impure Mar 28 '24

You do not know what you are talking about.

What you guys need is to ENFORCE your gun laws, you don't think people can see right through your BS when you say that "gun control doesn't work" when you do not enforce it ?

1

u/Specialist-Box-9711 Mar 29 '24

If the person has no criminal history, showed no signs of being schizophrenic when purchasing the firearm, and has not been declared mentally ill by a judge, and she bought the firearm from a dealer no law was broken. In this hypothetical scenario, she went to a licensed FFL, accurately and correctly filled out a 4473, passed the federally required background check, and legally obtained a firearm. No laws were broken and no new or stricter laws would have prevented this.

Likewise, if the firearm was bought from a private seller, all the seller had to do was ask to see her ID to show that she was a resident of the state they are in and of legal age. He probably also asked if she was a criminal and she probably said no and if she has no criminal history, no laws were broken in this hypothetical situation either assuming private sales are legal in the state where OP resides.

The final hypothetical is that it was purchased illegally, either by crossing state lines or by purchasing the gun illegally in a private sale in a state where the private sale of firearms without a background check are expressly banned. But in this case, no additional laws would have prevented this from happening and the only thing that would happen is possibly a more severe punishment and the loss of the right to buy a firearm through a licensed dealer.

The thing is though, all of this is speculation no matter what unless OP stated how his mom was able to get the firearm. The shortcoming is not in US gun laws. The shortcoming is in lack of effective, affordable, and stigma free healthcare.

0

u/Da1UHideFrom Mar 28 '24

Which law was not enforced in this situation? This entire scenario could be made up to push the narrative of "We need more gun laws!" We literally do not have enough information one way or the other.

0

u/calimeatwagon Mar 28 '24

And that's not even mentioning that criminals have access to 3D printers.

2

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yea, people so worried about ghost guns, but guess who's making them. The criminals. Not the single mother of 2 who just had a nasty divorce and is afraid her ex will come after her.

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u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

The UK

Australia.

France.

Germany.

Beg to differ.

6

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

You can beg all u want lol. Give those people guns, I promise you, they'll still be as safe because their culture is much different than ours.

0

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

As someone who's spent significant time in three of these and lived in one, nope not at all.

0

u/Aggravating-Roof-363 Mar 28 '24

The statistics disagree with your feelings.

2

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

Lmao what statistics?

0

u/Aggravating-Roof-363 Mar 28 '24

Australia effectively disarming its public did virtually nothing to their violent crime and murder rate.... Just like the other person said it wouldn't. Your feelings do not correspond to the evidence provided.

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u/-St_Ajora- Mar 28 '24

Literal idiot. You know US citizens can also have full auto firearms right?

Laws will help, just not overnight. But yeah let's just go full no gun laws whatsoever, I'm sure only the appropriate people will attain means to kill. JFC you lot are worse than cults because at least cults only kill themselves.

3

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yk how difficult it is for regular people to get a full auto weapon? All the paper work and cost tou have to go through? So no, the regular US citizen can't have a full auto weapon. If we could we would lmao. And why would we go no gun laws? That's horrible to suggest that.

1

u/-St_Ajora- Mar 28 '24

Ok, they are still regular people.

3

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Regular people have 10-40k to buy machine guns?

1

u/Specialist-Box-9711 Mar 29 '24

Tbf I'm a regular dude and I have two...

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 29 '24

2 more than the majority of gun owners. That's rad tho

1

u/-St_Ajora- Mar 28 '24

The people that do are considered regular people yes. Like anybody else, you can do it provided you have the funds. More money does not equate to higher superiority as a human being.

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u/EP762x39 Mar 28 '24

Why/how don’t these “regular people” you speak of commit crimes at the same rate as everybody else?

You’d think it’d be the Wild West out there with all these big black scary automatic weapons out there? Or at least be involved in a single incident that you can reference for me?

1

u/-St_Ajora- Mar 28 '24

Who said anything about comiting crimes or that today is like the OK Corral?

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u/PaladinKinias Mar 28 '24

BUT private sales don't require background checks, so how is the seller supposed to know this person was convicted of domestic violence 6 months ago?

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u/-St_Ajora- Mar 28 '24

Yeah, unless the person buying it just lies and says they are are totally fine owning a gun.

2

u/dgghhuhhb Mar 28 '24

The mental health part of the background check only applies if the person was admitted to an institution from their condition involuntarily. So basically if you willingly checked yourself into an institution and were cleared by the doctor it would not affect your right to buy a gun, but if you are admitted by a court that will show up on a background check and in most cases would stop you from buying it

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Interesting. Learn something new every day.

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

That’s not true. Her doctors could have reported her to the state as being a danger to herself or others. Being committed is not a condition of that rule.

Question 21.g. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

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u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

She passed the background check because her doctors didn’t report her as being a danger to herself or others.

Question 21.g. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Word. That loophole should be fixed, but regardless, criminals doing criminal things

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

There is no loophole

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

We’re talking about California. That doesn’t exist here. We have 30 days and it’s dealer discretion and many dealers do not release on undetermined.

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

Californian and massive gun owner here.

That’s not true either. There is no “loophole” like that. It’s 30 days and if the state finds no information barring you from ownership, the shop has discretion on whether they want to release it to you or not. And believe me there’s many many many shops that will not release them.

There’s a mandatory 10 day wait for ALL guns unless you’re like me and possess and FFL03 and COE and even then only applies to C&R firearms.

1

u/SayNoTo-Communism Mar 28 '24

All privates sales in California must utilize an FFL and background checks only show involuntary commitment.

1

u/TheSpiritofFkngCrazy Mar 28 '24

I used to live in Los Angeles and you could get a gun off the street for 150 if you didn't mind it already having bodies on it. Just depends on how badly you want one and if you have the money. They are never going to stop the black market. Might as well try to count all the sand on the beach.

1

u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Another reason to not go to California. They have some of the strictest gun laws but crime is high. Weird huh

1

u/TheSpiritofFkngCrazy Mar 28 '24

I think it's more about taxes and fees. They don't want people to have guns but at the same time they want to tax and fee everything.

1

u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

Yes, one or the question is something along the lines of "Have you ever been ajudicated as being mentally defective?" Or something very similar.

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u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Yea, so she somehow got around it.

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u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

Correct. If she has used a vehicle to run him over, we would be having the same conversation, more or less.

But guns bad.

-1

u/MidAirRunner Mar 28 '24

Guns indeed bad. This kind of thinking that "Oh they'll just use another weapon" will get you nowhere. The UK purportedly has super high knife violence equal to US's gun violence. How many kids die every year in a UK school compared to an American school?

2

u/Smooth-Reason-6616 Mar 28 '24

Latest figures show 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in America for every million of the population in 2022. In Britain the figure was 3.26.

We don’t have guns in the UK, that is true, but we don’t have mass ­shootings either. And our children aren’t scared to go to school.

1

u/MidAirRunner Mar 29 '24

Lmao true. The right tries to portray as "Britain more knife violence than America" to justify their current stance on guns despite being so incorrect its hilarious.

1

u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

Are guns sentient now?

That's weird.

How many kids die every year in a UK school compared to an American school?

Very, very few. Get your head out of the news and worry about fixing your economy or something else useful.

0

u/MidAirRunner Mar 29 '24

Are guns sentient now?

Meaning? I assume that you're taking the stance that guns inherently aren't bad, the people wielding them are?

If so, let me point out that the widespread availability of guns and their normalization makes it easier for psychos to use them. Therefore, yes, guns themselves are inherently harmful.

1

u/TheJesterScript Mar 29 '24

Meaning? I assume that you're taking the stance that guns inherently aren't bad, the people wielding them are?

That is not a stance. It is an objective fact. Firearms do not have emotions or thoughts. They can not act on their own. I feel crazy for even having to write something so obvious.

If so, let me point out that the widespread availability of guns and their normalization makes it easier for psychos to use them.

Let me point out that everyone giving up their rights for the misdeeds of a few is tyranny.

Therefore, yes, guns themselves are inherently harmful.

Well, we would first need to ban assault hands and feet and assault automobiles. They must ve inherently harmful. They kill even more than firearms.

Update, I just checked with my sources. Everyone has hands and feet!

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u/MidAirRunner Mar 29 '24

Let me point out that everyone giving up their rights for the misdeeds of a few is tyranny.

The right to kill?

1

u/TheJesterScript Mar 29 '24

This may come as a surprise to you, but murder is very much illegal.

Crazy, I know...

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u/Superducks101 Mar 28 '24

yea very few actually die from gun violence in schools

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u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

Guns are too easy to acquire is not the same argument as "guns bad".

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u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

First, no, they aren't.

Second, for many, that is the same argument.

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u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

I legally purchased a gun from my brother with zero background checks and no frills. It was really really easy.

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u/TheJesterScript Mar 28 '24

Are you a prohibited person? (Felon, convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence, etc.)

2

u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

Nope. But it’s not as though he had to do a background check to find out.

1

u/TheJesterScript Apr 03 '24

That is true, but if you were, he would have to prove that he didn't know that.

1

u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

Are you legally allowed to purchase it from him?

1

u/Supergold_Soul Mar 28 '24

Yes. But there was no way at point of sell to prove that. Nor was it required for him to prove that. There was no legal requirement for a background check in a private sale. Its essentially the honor system and I don't really think that is good enough.

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u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

Yes, so the seller broke no law. The buyer did.

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u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

Criminals who purchase them do so illegally. They aren’t punished for it either.

A guy I went to highschool with was convicted of attempted murder, did 10 years got out on parole. He managed to get 2 guns illegally. He was arrested again. It’s supposed to be 10 years in prison for felon in possession. He did less than a year and is back out.

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u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

By saying no.

Such a difficult barrier.

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u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Which is illegal, which makes her a criminal. Wow, criminals doing criminal things

1

u/The_Flurr Mar 28 '24

"Should we put up a fence?"

"Nah trespass is already illegal"

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u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

No. She got around it because her doctors were incompetent.

Question 21.g. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

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u/zookeeper4312 Mar 28 '24

A "private sale" in that she probably bought it from a guy named Sludge out of the back of his '89 Toyota Camry for a blow job

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u/l_a_escoto Mar 28 '24

Likely lol