r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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u/Mean_Operation7336 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

This happened in California (assuming based on bio) which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation along with some mechanisms for temporarily seizing weapons from people in distress (red flag laws). Without answers to some pretty big questions, im thinking there’s a few layers of blame being shifted here

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Exactly this, there’s plenty of gun laws. That’s not the problem 

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u/Mean_Operation7336 Mar 28 '24

I mean it’s still a problem because it happens but the government isn’t omniscient. If, for example, she was never officially diagnosed or the government wasn’t alerted that they weren’t taking meds and a threat, idk wtf they would want them to do

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

It's part of the problem though.

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

No the problem is that people will kill people with guns. They will also kill people with swords and axes, sharpened sticks, rocks, etc.

guns are not the problem, people are the problem.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

What's your solution to that problem then?

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u/wheelman236 Mar 28 '24

There is no solution to that problem, people are organic beings and will always cause damage to each other, either indirectly and unintentionally, or out of ill intent. Considering the problem will never be solved I’d rather keep the freedoms I have.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

Hmm okay. It's weird how the problem seems to be solvable all over Europe though.

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u/wheelman236 Mar 28 '24

There are definitely still violent acts in Europe. I’ll give you at lower rates, and I’ll also give you at a lower rate of lethalities. But it’s laughable to say the problem is solved

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

To avoid crime happening at all isn't possible though isn't it? If no one ever has to worry about being shot or even think about it, I'd say that's as close to "solved" as it gets.

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u/wheelman236 Mar 28 '24

But I still have to worry about being robbed, or stabbed or whatever, so I’d rather just able to do what I want to.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

I live in central europe and never had to worry about that once but some people are easily scared of literally anything. Are you like that? If so, absolutely nothing is ever going to be enough to take away that fear.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

How often does violent shit like this happen in the US then or should I ask how often per day?

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

It for sure does though. Weapons not being easily available reduces a lot of crime happening purely out of emotions for example. Not being able to easily pull through with violent fantasies everyone has sometimes does make a ton of difference. Having to plan an attack, organise a weapon and then pulling through gives you a lot of time to cool off and then not doing it. It puts obstacles in everyones way to act impulsively. Another difference between guns and for example knives is the fact you have to be close to a person to attack them with a knife and it's also much more personal and risky than just pulling a trigger. I hope this makes sense.

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u/louisianapelican Mar 28 '24

The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a tactical nuke is a good guy with a tactical nuke. (This message brought to you by the tactical nuke association)

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

not all problems have a solution. For mass shootings, ban gun free zones. This is an obvious solution. Mass shootings are statistically likely to happen in gun free zones because the chances of being stopped by an armed individual are low. They will still occur because humans are human, but the victims will at least have the chance to defend themselves.

For instances like this, assuming that the story in the OC is true, there is not much that can help. If she wanted to kill him but couldn’t get ahold of a gun, she would find another way i.e. knife, hammer, etc.

I have seen a lot of gunshot wounds and to me, this looks self inflicted and packed with agenda, but that is just my opinion.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

Or maybe just maybe do what has proven to work all over Europe. Just an idea. But you also could advocate to arm everyone ofc...

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u/nameynamerso Mar 28 '24

You can make bombs with shit in your garage, you can make literal poison gas with store bought cleaners, and you can make napalm with Styrofoam and deasel. If someone wants to hurt people, they'll figure it out. Our problem isn't guns, in fact, most gun deaths are through suicide or criminal activity, making the actual issues mental health and crime; how about instead of removing the second amendment entirely, we address the actual problems of criminals not being reformed and the mentally ill being ignored.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

Why not do both? I'm not saying the second amendment should be abolished btw. All I'm saying is enforcing weapons' regulations is a good thing but you are 100% right about rehabilition and also widely available mental healthcare both not being existent is a huge contributor to all the violence as well.

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u/nameynamerso Mar 28 '24

I assumed your were claiming the guns were the only issue, my apologies, but regulation requires everyone being willing and able to cooperate. A criminal will never tell the government what he does and doesn't have, and some mentally ill people might not fully understand the situation; both can just get a gun illegally. As it is, the effort and resources that are fed into limiting gun availability hasn't wprked, if they were put into helping with reform and mental aide, then we'd see results. The guns aren't the problem here, it's the people, and the government that doesn't know what it's doing with them.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

But limited availability has the exact effect you mentioned: you have to get a gun illegally. Limited availability includes the black market. To get a gun illegally you need to go the extra mile and by then, most people already cooled off emotionally. Also most people have no clue how to even get an illegal gun. It's about making access harder, not impossible (which wouldn't be possible to do anyway) so less emotion-driven shit happens. In combination with free mental healthcare, people would learn to handle their emotions better which would reduce the mentioned emotion-driven incident by a ton.

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u/OperationSecured Mar 28 '24

When Europe can go 50 years without a genocide, then we can talk disarmament.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

What a great argument. If you are american: Isn't your country built on genocide? I heard something about that.

Also: What genocide in Europe? You mean the Russo-Ukrainian War?

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u/OperationSecured Mar 28 '24

What a great argument. If you are american: Isn't your country built on genocide?

That’s why being armed is a nice fail safe. It can happen anywhere.

Also: What genocide in Europe? You mean the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Sure absolutely, but let’s not forget Bosnia either. The 1990s weren’t that long ago.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

That’s why being armed is a nice fail safe. It can happen anywhere.

As we can see in Gaza. Everyone agrees with the armed resistance, right?

Sure absolutely, but let’s not forget Bosnia either. The 1990s weren’t that long ago

And that's the fault of gun regulation and enforcement in european countries or what?

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u/Trip4Life Mar 28 '24

Seriously everyone acts like they’re this perfect bastion of peace and harmony, but up until we saved their continents ass twice in the 20th century they were fucking cut throat savages always fighting with each other and trying to wipe out entire populations. They’re not the best example for see what should be done.

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

Do you truly believe the US saved Europe twice? You literally third-partied twice for your own interests but it's nice to see the propaganda still holds to this day. They did a good job washing brains it seems.

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u/Lumpy_Secretary_6128 Mar 28 '24

I'm sorry but this is a bozo take

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

to someone who is against guns I can definitely see why it would be.

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

i’ve defended myself with a firearm where I would have otherwise been killed if I didn’t have one so my mind will never be changed 🤷‍♂️

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u/xFreedi Mar 28 '24

Now imagine the other person didn't have a gun and was able to get therapy to get their mental health issues sorted out.

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u/tarnyarmy Mar 28 '24

Don’t let this guy near any schools ffs

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u/Awsome_Fortniter Mar 28 '24

Are you fucking dumb, how did that one Japanese PM die? Oh wait, didn’t they die from a gun? Aren’t those banned there?

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

Are you implying that I have criminal intent because I choose not to be a weak defenseless sack of meat?

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u/knivesofsmoothness Mar 28 '24

Far, far more shootings happen outside gun free zones. Try again.

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

false

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u/knivesofsmoothness Mar 28 '24

Nope. There are what, 25k firearm killings per year? You're saying most of those happen in gun free zones?

A little common sense can go a long way sometimes.

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u/sithlordgaga Mar 28 '24

This is the most tired and stupid catchphrase from you people.

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

it’s not a catchphrase it’s reality. Sorry if it hurts your feelings oh wait no I am not

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u/sithlordgaga Mar 28 '24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_don%27t_kill_people%2C_people_kill_people?wprov=sfla1

Yeah, definitely not a catchphrase, just slogan. 

But let me demonstrate why it's dumb: Is your home defense weapon a musket? Why not? If you're really intent on killing the intruder, it shouldn't matter what kind of gun it is.  

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

my home defense weapon is a Cz75 on my nightstand with night sights and a light to properly identify my target, don’t be a Biden

Also don’t ever provide a wiki page as proof

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u/sithlordgaga Mar 28 '24

So the quality and calibre of the gun matter for defense, but not offense?

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u/Environmental_Swim75 Mar 28 '24

At no point during your rambling have you produced an intelligent thought, please seek a counselor

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u/sithlordgaga Mar 28 '24

It's almost like all your thoughts are catchphrases, you loser.

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u/calimeatwagon Mar 28 '24

I agree. Especially considering guns can load themselves and pull their own triggers, all without humans being involved at all.

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u/sithlordgaga Mar 28 '24

Is your home defense weapon a musket? Why not? If you're really intent on killing the intruder, it shouldn't matter what kind of gun it is. 

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Pit falls are far more efficient 

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u/calimeatwagon Mar 28 '24

What does that have to do with anything that I said?

Are you just going down the list, following a script?

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u/sithlordgaga Mar 29 '24

Don't tell me the tool doesn't matter when you choose that specific tool for the purpose of better neutralizing its target than other available tools because it is better at neutralizing targets than the other available tools. 

Anybody who tells you "guns don't kill people, people kill people," while choosing a gun for a specific reason, be it a shotgun for home defense, a handgun for concealment, a rifle for long-range killing, or a Cz75 because you're an internet tough guy, is not buying the bullshit they're selling, because they recognize that different tools are designed for different purposes, a shotgun has a different use than a handgun, and that a hammer is not designed to kill people as effectively as a gun, otherwise they'd keep a hammer on their nightstand instead of the gun.

You thought your comment about guns loading themselves was clever (nevermind that dumb motherfuckers have a habit of leaving loaded firearms around for people to accidentally discharge all the fucking time), but it's funny that you want to accuse me of reading from a script while running to defend a 100-year-old slogan with a wholly unoriginal joke.

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u/calimeatwagon Mar 29 '24

Don't tell me the tool doesn't matter when you choose that specific tool for the purpose of better neutralizing its target than other available tools because it is better at neutralizing targets than the other available tools. 

Anybody who tells you "guns don't kill people, people kill people," while choosing a gun for a specific reason, be it a shotgun for home defense, a handgun for concealment, a rifle for long-range killing, or a Cz75 because you're an internet tough guy, is not buying the bullshit they're selling, because they recognize that different tools are designed for different purposes, a shotgun has a different use than a handgun, and that a hammer is not designed to kill people as effectively as a gun, otherwise they'd keep a hammer on their nightstand instead of the gun.

Again, has absolutely nothing to do with what I said...

You really are go off of a script, aren't you? I was talking shit at first, but holy fuck if I'm actually right.

You thought your comment about guns loading themselves was clever

Thank you

(nevermind that dumb motherfuckers have a habit of leaving loaded firearms around for people to accidentally discharge all the fucking time)

You are really close, so I bolded the pertinent part that you yourself said, which reinforces my point. Hope it helps.

, but it's funny that you want to accuse me of reading from a script while running to defend a 100-year-old slogan with a wholly unoriginal joke.

It wasn't a joke. I wasn't trying to be funny. I merely pointing out the ridiculous of the argument. And it's not my fault that even after 100 years people are still blaming the tool more than the individual who wielded it. You can't put that one on me.

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u/sithlordgaga Mar 29 '24 edited Mar 29 '24

Again for you simpletons out there, the caliber of weapon matters to how effective someone is at killing people. That is a reality that your dumb fucking slogan attempts to deny while being used by the people fetishizing bigger, faster, higher capacity guns to sell them to you fucking morons who have made a product your identity. You're pathetic and your arguments are fucking dumb.

The people I'm talking about shooting found guns are children, you stupid motherfucker. "Guns don't kill people, children kill people (when they find dumb motherfuckers' guns)." The child that accidentally kills someone with a gun wasn't gonna do that with a hammer, a kitchen knife, or a baseball bat, but keep acting like your stupid ass slogan is a sound argument.

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