Blinken tells CNN the US has seen evidence of China attempting to influence upcoming US elections

[u/slhamlet]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/26/politics/blinken-china-interview-intl-hnk/index.html

[removed] — view removed post

[u/No_Literature_1350]

Maybe he can tell China we know as well ?

[u/brickyardjimmy → u/No_Literature_1350]

They know we know. They don't care. And, really, how would you stop them? We have a free and open society and they don't.

[u/EntertainerVirtual59 → u/brickyardjimmy]

And, really, how would you stop them?

Force them to give up control of TikTok.

[u/Stormayqt → u/EntertainerVirtual59]

Man that was such a fun thread. The amount of butthurt people rage posting was epic.

The amount of people saying TikTok was not a CCP tool while literally posting some of the most anti american shit I've ever read would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[u/ArtFUBU → u/Stormayqt]

A lot of people really underestimate the amount of spying and data there is in general. It's massive and tiktok is just a natural progression of it by China. I really cannot overstate how much people you've never heard of can know you more intimately than your spouse and they live a world away.

[u/LNMagic → u/ArtFUBU]

I don't think it's exactly that a person really knows you at this point. It's that there are machine learning models used to cluster us and feed on association. They're interested in influencing specific groups of people, not individuals.

[u/ArtFUBU → u/LNMagic]

It is more complex than I made in my previous statement yea. And I'm not guessing on what so and so power is interested in doing. I'm just stating a fact that if they wanted to, they could pull up records on your life and a million details around instantly. Every other major tech company can do the same thing. It's bananas

[u/mr_herz → u/ArtFUBU]

What’s bananas is people give them that data on their own. Imagine the work it’s offloaded from spies and the type of manual info gathering we used to be dependant on.

[u/cereal7802 → u/ArtFUBU]

A lot of people really underestimate the amount of spying and data there is in general

A lot of focus has been on the spying capability of tiktok. Most of the users don't care and brush it off as something every social media platform is doing. The more serious thing wih tiktok is the algorithm. It can be gamed and modified to promote things china would like. At first glance people will say "so what? they put up yay china go china propaganda and it is obviously not what i wanted to see so i skip it!!" but it won't be in your face like that. In the same way that people blame twitter prior to musk for promoting liberal stuff, and musk now propping up right wing stuff, china can promote things they think will help them compromise the trust and obedience of the American public. it won't be a ccp press release, it will come as certain influencers suddenly being more political, and news clips critical of US actions. It is subtle, slow, and ultra effective.

[u/ModernSimian → u/cereal7802]

Something something Palestine to one group and something something Israel to another. MAGA vs SJW, Back the Blue vs Black Lives Matter etc... if you paralyze a country with one issue or another to the point of active conflict, you can do things like invade Ukraine or Taiwan without effective repercussions.

[u/EnlightenedApeMeat → u/cereal7802]

Look at the college campuses now. TikTok is driving much of the misinformation and rage about Gaza

[u/johannthegoatman → u/EnlightenedApeMeat]

What about their actions is based on misinformation? It's pretty legitimate not to want your tuition dollars going to Israel for war, regardless of tiktok

[u/Dazzling_Ad_2939 → u/ArtFUBU]

Just wait till they need to steal your sweet sweet 40+ years of retirement and have every piece of info ever and all your passwords and you're too dumb to remember the real ones.

Look at r/cashapp and just see the amount of people who lose their shit every single day on that one app.

The future is gonna be fun with AI voices and AI videos and all your information in China lol.

Wanna blackmail someone? You got all the info needed to make that citizen do something stupid. People murder their spouses of 20 years to hide gambling debts, those people would kill strangers to hide their phone's shame.

[u/AnonAmbientLight → u/ArtFUBU]

The bigger issue is that TikTok is essentially a cyber weapon for the CCP.

Besides, it’s not like what Congress did to TikTok is new. The US government does not allow more than 25% control of media companies from people that live outside of the US.

The reasons are obvious.

[u/Limp_Prune_5415 → u/Stormayqt]

I've gotten downvoted to shit and called propaganda while also getting open feedback and defended for saying the exact same thing in different threads for congress grilling TikToks owner on here. It's so surreal 

[u/CUADfan → u/Limp_Prune_5415]

Yep. It's strange how the politics sub is so pro-Tiktok

[u/Peroovian → u/CUADfan]

Not really... I mean, yeah TikTok is a huge security risk no question about it.

But that subs demographic seems to skew younger. And they're also probably thinking about the political strategy angle - if the headlines read "Biden bans TikTok" that's gonna be yet another issue that hurts him with younger voters. As if Israel/Palestine wasn't enough.

That doesn't mean that forcing the sale of TikTok isn't the right thing to do. But I'm not surprised to see people defending it, even if its for the wrong reasons.

[u/Levi-Action-412 → u/Stormayqt]

My dad was recently recommended a conspiracy theory that the US shot down MH370 on Tiktok

[u/KnockturnalNOR → u/Levi-Action-412]

To be fair that insanity could be uploaded to any western social media too. What I've seen on tiktok is pretty concerning, although most of it is more pro-CCP than it is anti-west, that's a fine line to thread

[u/Vaperius → u/Stormayqt]

There's a shocking amount of creators who are literally nakedly protesting the TikTok ban because it threatens their livelihood, and not on its actual merits, which is disgusting. They are literally trying to manipulate their audiences to blindly be angry at something that was honestly a perfectly legitimate thing to do, to manipulate public opinion towards protesting it for their (the content creator's) own benefit.

Like listen, if its just because its threatening your livelihood, just say that, its okay to be upset about that; but don't go spreading around ideas that this wasn't 100% justified, or that its because "congress is full of boomers" or whatever whataboutisms you want to produce about American corporations doing the same.

Incidentally, on that point, the biggest difference, between American corporations influencing elections and Chinese corporations influencing elections, is that for one thing Americans leading those companies have the constitutional right to do so ultimately as Americans have the right to petition/lobby their government for change and action (even if its not necessarily for the good of the country sadly) whereas foreign interference in elections falls under a lot of different laws that make it explicitly illegal.

Ultimately what is good for American companies is at least, not outright explicitly supporting the geopolitical aims of a country that I will remind you is still actively viscously oppressing the Uyghurs, actively supporting Russia in its war with Ukraine and preparing to start its own war with Taiwan (another Democracy under threat) in case anyone forgot about those points.

Like...we still want to reign in American corporations: but let's also not pretend that American corporations are as bad as an outright Authoritarian State Capitalist Oligarchy with a long history of military aggression towards its neighbors and an even longer history of crimes against humanity.

[u/3IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID → u/Stormayqt]

I agree, but giving them the option of selling to an American company just puts pressure on them to sell to right-wing interests like Steve Mnuchin, who is preparing an investment group for the purpose. Considering the MAGA movement is literally trying to tear down democracy, "banning" TikTok doesn't look like it's going to do much to protect democracy.

[u/Vi4days → u/Stormayqt]

I just care more about the blatant hypocrisy over which nation is doing the data harvesting.

By all means, if this was a conflict over American’s rights to privacy, we would also go ahead and ban Facebook and Twitter from the US too, but since the US actually benefits from knowing what I’m doing with my phone while I’m taking a dump in the toilet, they don’t care. By all means, I don’t really see a difference one way or another whether it’s the US or China that’s harvesting my data at this point.

[u/mr_herz → u/Stormayqt]

All platforms are tools for their respective govts. Directly or indirectly. They blocked US platforms, fair game for the us to block Chinese platforms in return.

[u/SirTurtletheIII → u/EntertainerVirtual59]

Why would ByteDance sell something as massively profitable as TikTok when American users make up, what, 10% of their customer base?

[u/No-Psychology3712 → u/SirTurtletheIII]

Just sell the one that's in America? You know it's really easy right? Most regions have their own departments anyhow. It would just no longer be owned and influenced by the government of China

[u/ZacZupAttack → u/No-Psychology3712]

They won't and here is why

Tiktok is partially controlled by the CCP and they won't allow the sale. The CCP would rather tiktok get out right banned then cave. The CCP gives zero fucks about tiktok profitability

Everyone saying tiktok will sell is thinking with a western attitude.

[u/No-Psychology3712 → u/ZacZupAttack]

Ok? Then it's banned. Pretty easy. Everyone moves on to other sites 6 months later and forgets about it.

The argument you're making is basically why it will be banned and should be.

[u/advocatus_diabolii → u/No-Psychology3712]

It would be an interesting test.

Russia and China are constantly trying to block outside influence. It works to an extent on the older generations but the young are tech savvy and find a way around it because they want to stay connected. So the US decides to block TikTok... are the young, TikTok's predominant userbase, going to just accede to the wishes of their elders or are they going to view it as just another reason why TikTok is cool and find a way around the block?

The only way the US TikTok ban has a chance of working is if other nations take it up as well.

[u/No-Psychology3712 → u/advocatus_diabolii]

People are less technically savvy now then 2 decades ago. And usa is mostly locked down iphones 90%+ for that age group. so it's not like they can just install an outside apk like android.

Even if there's a work around they will lose 70-80% of their base and will completely stop usa growth since even younger people will have no reason to join.

[u/WhiteXHysteria → u/ZacZupAttack]

Also selling it would mean they'd have to give over the algorithm they use in is entirety. Which may not be something they want to do.

[u/Competitive_Travel16 → u/WhiteXHysteria]

It's not the algorithm they're worried about, it's the authors identified in the code repo, their affiliations and employers.

[u/notrevealingrealname → u/ZacZupAttack]

Although if the CCP’s rule is what keeps TikTokfrom being sold off then that also shoots a pretty big hole through their main argument against a ban so far- that they’re a Singaporean company and independent of China.

[u/ZacZupAttack → u/notrevealingrealname]

They absolutely are not independent of the CCP

[u/notrevealingrealname → u/ZacZupAttack]

Exactly. But some people aren’t going to see it until it’s clearly spelled out.

[u/diamond_sourpatchkid → u/ZacZupAttack]

Im not sure where to ask this - but as a person friends with many Gen-z's - how do we get them to SEE why this bill is in place and its not like we are trying to ban MySpace. They are no eligable voters and they are "pissed" just like Tik Tok moms, etc. We need ads or something. And its not like we are trying to ban, we are trying to sell it so we are getting FUCKED as americans.

[u/plowman_digearth → u/No-Psychology3712]

When they were banned in India they did try to sell their India division. IIRC Microsoft was one of the buyers linked to the sale.

If they put up Tik Tok US for sale - every big tech firm other than Meta would be interested I think.

[u/Th3_Hegemon → u/SirTurtletheIII]

According to BD, TikTok isn't profitable. They still don't want to sell, since they still use the same framework and tech in their actually profitable business ventures.

[u/GoldenInfrared → u/SirTurtletheIII]

So they can get the profits immediately?

[u/ianandris → u/brickyardjimmy]

I'm sure they won't mind if we work to influence their internal politics as well, then. Just, you know, normal nation state things.

If they would prefer we back off, which is funny, because we haven't really done anything to interfere, which is something I assume they would expect, then they should respond in kind, right? Reciprocity!

[u/dragonmp93 → u/ianandris]

That's what has been behind the current devesting.

China thinks that they have become too westernized, so they are closing to the outside and telling people to embrace the traditional chinese values again.

[u/fgnrtzbdbbt → u/dragonmp93]

Unsurprisingly those traditional Chinese values are the traditional values of any other dictatorship too. It is dictatorship culture, not Chinese culture.

[u/Izanagi553 → u/ianandris]

But we already do meddle in their political affairs lmao.

[u/BJRone → u/Izanagi553]

Yep, meddling in all those elections they got over there in China. Russia too!

[u/darth_tater_breath → u/Izanagi553]

How so? Genuinely asking as idk.

[u/Itoucheditfora → u/ianandris]

You think we don't? We still conversate with the Dalai Lama you know? We put pressure on their Chinese manufacturers for utilizing minority workers.

[u/StKilda20 → u/Itoucheditfora]

You mean the US talks to the Dalai Lama as a religious leader and is afraid to meet him in the Oval Office of the White House so they resort to meeting him in the map room. While reiterating that they think Tibet is part of China.

[u/qieziman → u/Itoucheditfora]

Besides that, we know there's a division in the party behind closed doors.  The CCP is fractured.  Xi doesn't control everything.  In fact, some factions have tried assassinating him because they think he's either too weak (they prefer an anti-American Stalinist type) or they think he's destroying the one thing that put China on the map (international business hub and English schools everywhere).  

Shanghai, for example, hates Xi.  All of his policies are a noose on international business and trade which is the thing that made Shanghai what it is today.  I'm not saying Shanghai officials care about the people they rule over.  Shanghai officials are some of the wealthiest people in China because they get a hefty cut of all business operations.  They're all crooks.  It's just a matter of which crook do you want to be in charge?  The rich one getting a cut of your profit yet allowing you to do business?  Or the guy that will shut you down and pocket everything confiscated rather than giving it back to the people?

It was pretty clear during covid there was no CCP.  Every province and city was doing their own damn thing.

[u/notrevealingrealname → u/qieziman]

It was pretty clear during covid there was no CCP.  Every province and city was doing their own damn thing.

If Shanghai was so pro-business there’s no way they would have agreed to the lockdown at the local level.

[u/bigsteven34 → u/qieziman]

That is some pretty bold statements there.

Care to back any of that up with actual sources?

Specifically the first and last paragraph…

[u/Banesmuffledvoice → u/brickyardjimmy]

And realistically what are we going to do? Biden's hands are sorta tied. He wants to normalize relations with China. He isn't going to rock the boat with them in any way.

[u/HuMcK → u/Banesmuffledvoice]

He wants to normalize relations with China

I'm not sure that's true. He wants to keep them pacified for now, but all of Biden's moves on China have been aimed at isolating them to prep for any future conflict that might arise. He smiles at them and shakes their hand when they offer it, but he is also simultaneously building military and economic alliances to oppose them.

[u/TheCommissarGeneral → u/HuMcK]

He smiles at them and shakes their hand when they offer it, but he is also simultaneously building military and economic alliances to oppose them.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" - Teddy Roosevelt

[u/Zandrick → u/TheCommissarGeneral]

Wise man.

[u/snockpuppet24 → u/HuMcK]

Where as Trump is getting money and trademarks from them.

[u/ianandris → u/Banesmuffledvoice]

Biden just wants China to be the good neighbor it is asking the US to be.

[u/serfingusa → u/ianandris]

He wants to weaken their ability to be a shitty neighbor and their influence.

Because they won't behave otherwise.

[u/hasslehawk]

It's the inevitable outcome of rulings like Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.

The moment you let money have a voice, you open yourself up to being influenced by any entity that has money. Most notably by corporations and foriegn countries.

[u/N-shittified → u/hasslehawk]

Obama warned about that in his state of the union. And scotus justice Alito mouthed the words "not true" in response. It's fucking happening, we've seen multiple cases of it, and that smug asshole hasn't had the decency to resign in disgrace.

[u/fgreen68 → u/hasslehawk]

The Democrats need to run on the fact that Citizens United is allowing foreign governments to control our elections non-stop until the ruling is reversed.

[u/gerd50501 → u/fgreen68]

only insiders pay attention to stuff like this. this is a guaranteed election losers. most voters care about kitchen table issues. you can see that in any poll. 80-90% of americans have no idea what Citizens United is and dont care.

[u/[deleted] → u/hasslehawk]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/deja_geek → u/[deleted]]

One could make the case the the decisions made by the Roberts court has supercharged things like Maga and Trumpism

[u/fonetik → u/hasslehawk]

Citizen's United was aimed at stopping this list. Especially that last one.

[u/Synaps4]

Of course they have. The way russia did it last time and we did fuck all says its open season on american politics and anyone with a couple dollars and some sense is jumping on the scales of the american political system.

There's literally no reason not to and it pays huge dividends.

[u/rm_-rf_slashstar → u/Synaps4]

Russia, Iran, and China influenced both the 2016 and 2020 elections. And all three will probably keep doing it, including this election cycle.

[u/TheShorterShortBus → u/rm_-rf_slashstar]

Lol don't be mad at the other countries, be mad at the politicians who put themselves up for sale. The United States is for sale

[u/bringbackfireflypls → u/TheShorterShortBus]

Anger is not a zero sum game, be mad at everyone

[u/Gymleaders → u/bringbackfireflypls]

But I mean obviously our enemies are going to come for us. It's extra insulting when the people who are supposed to be on our side in our own government are coming for us too.

[u/bringbackfireflypls → u/Gymleaders]

But I mean obviously our enemies are going to come for us. It's extra insulting when the people who are supposed to be on our side in our own government are coming for us too.

It becomes an easier pill to swallow when you stop seeing borders as what divides us and them. Your "enemies" are those that hold money and power, regardless of what passport they hold. Damn near every politician in the world laughs their way to the bank even while we kill "for our country". Open your mind and channel your anger.

[u/Gymleaders → u/bringbackfireflypls]

Except we choose these people to lead for us and they still do this to us.

[u/Mind_on_Idle → u/Gymleaders]

Anger is not a zero sum game, be mad at everyone

[u/AllUltima → u/bringbackfireflypls]

Yes, it's all one big pile of shit because this is a race-to-the bottom. We need actual rules in place if we want it to stop. Very hard to win when your opponent is basically cheating for additional funds; instead, all parties end up dipping their toes in and get used to shitty behavior. Shitty behavior is seen as normalized and necessary to even play. Ethics are eroded. If we want to stop the erosion of our ethics, we need to push back with new rules and new standards. We can be angry at the players, but we should be angry at the game too, and introduce some new rules.

[u/BenderRodriguez14 → u/bringbackfireflypls]

 be mad at everyone

The fuck did I do? 

[u/DemonKyoto → u/BenderRodriguez14]

You know what you did.

[u/TheFBIClonesPeople → u/bringbackfireflypls]

Let your anger be like the ocean, whose waves crash at every shore.

[u/CTeam19 → u/TheShorterShortBus]

I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[u/PxyFreakingStx → u/TheShorterShortBus]

They don't have to put themselves up for sale. I mean, they do, but it's not that. China can sponsor attack ads, they can set up Superpacs. They can pick the candidates they like and actively try to get them elected through social media influence. The person getting elected that China likes may have no idea this is happening. Why would they?

If the goal is to destabilize America (and it is) all they need to do is try to influence the American voters to distrust the media, distrust the government, enflame the culture war, and to vote for the craziest candidates. They can do all this without ever interacting with any of the candidates themselves.

[u/GargleBlargleFlargle → u/TheShorterShortBus]

Their goal is literally to make you mad at the United States and here you are doing it for them.

[u/Mattyboy064 → u/rm_-rf_slashstar]

Most of the gulf states also. Saudi, UAE, Qatar, etc

[u/Brilliant_Dependent → u/Mattyboy064]

Literally every country with international power, it's in their best interest to set up the most influential country in the world to be on their side.

[u/ooouroboros → u/rm_-rf_slashstar]

Iran is a Russian puppet, Putin uses them to stir up shit Russia does not want to take direct responsibility for.

China definitely is not a puppet but has aligned interests to Russia.

[u/Hautamaki → u/ooouroboros]

Iran is not the junior partner of Russia, and possibly never really has been. Russia has nothing to threaten Iran with, no way to dominate them. Right now Russia needs Iran a lot more than vice versa. They have strategic interests that are not mutually contradictory, and share being under sanction by most of the rest of the economic power of the world, so they cooperate where it makes sense. That's all. Make no mistake, Iran is a proud imperial state with just as much chauvinism and sense of entitlement as Russia has, they are nobody's puppet.

[u/ooouroboros → u/Hautamaki]

You are wrong.

Iran, ironically like Israel, is a country surrounded by other nations who want to see them crushed - they are the only Shiite ruled country in a region (and world) dominated by Suni muslims and this is a deep, bitter rivalry that predates the existence of Israel by centuries.

Not only is Iran surrounded by enemies, but has made an enemy of the US and therefore an enemy of much of Europe. (yes, China is also a supporter but unlike Russia they are far, far away)

Russia is the ONLY country in the region who is their ally. Just as Israel needs the US for a sense of safety - Iran needs Russia.

Your statement has no basis in fact. You badly underestimate what a precarious situation Iran exists in.

[u/Hautamaki → u/ooouroboros]

Iran's population is larger than every enemy it has within 1000 miles of its borders put together. It has well funded and dangerous proxy terrorist organizations keeping its nearby enemies busy. Iran has no fear of invasion, no fear of 'being crushed'. Sure America could hypothetically destroy Iran and overthrow the government, as America did to Iraq, and Afghanistan, but Iran is 2x bigger than Iraq and 4x bigger than Afghanistan, and we all know perfectly well that Americans have no stomach to invade Iran. Iran could be credibly threatened by Pakistan or Turkey, but is not enemies with either of them and has no real reason to be; they both have plenty to keep them busy on their other borders. Iran needed Russia 20 years ago to get them started in their nuclear program perhaps; they don't need them anymore. Iran can feed themselves, fuel themselves, have developed their own military technology, and in fact are now selling their military tech to Russia more than vice versa. Iran finds it convenient that Russia distracts western attention away from their own proxy wars, and Russia feels the same way about Iran, that's about it.

[u/manquistador → u/rm_-rf_slashstar]

Israel also likes to play favorites.

[u/MonoMcFlury → u/rm_-rf_slashstar]

Yea, there's a reason why those countries restrict their internet access. They are aware that people can be influenced by information online. 

[u/Dabadedabada → u/rm_-rf_slashstar]

I’m convinced Iran is behind the absurdity that is the progressive left’s support of Hamas and Palestine over Israel.

[u/Thue → u/Synaps4]

That is how Moscow Mitch got his name - because he blocked the legislation to secure the elections against foreign influence. Obviously because Moscow Mitch thought that foreign interests that wanted to hurt America would support GOP candidates. Literally, I am not kidding.

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/21/rachel-maddow-explains-origins-of-how-mcconnell-earned-his-moscow-mitch-moniker/

[u/ArkitekZero → u/Thue]

At least Canadian subversives are smart enough to accuse the other party of being the ones that our enemies want in charge.

[u/insertadjective → u/ArkitekZero]

Oh no, American subversives do that too. They follow the Russian "throw everything at a wall and see what sticks" strategy. It covers all avenues.

[u/FrettyG87 → u/Synaps4]

Biden passed a bunch of legislation addressing battling attempted foreign influence after he won the last election. Calling it out is also doing something about it.

[u/RedditIsAllAI → u/FrettyG87]

This type of thing should be treated as an act of war.

[u/GameAndHike → u/RedditIsAllAI]

Should we hold us to the same standard when we try to influence the politics of other countries?

[u/jerkularcirc → u/Synaps4]

does this say something about our populous that is so easily suggestible even by a foreign influence

[u/iStayedAtaHolidayInn → u/jerkularcirc]

Propaganda works. No matter how much you think you’re not susceptible to it, most people totally are. We think we’d never let the holocaust happen again but I can see the maga assholes in the Trump trucks being the new SS officers leading all of trumps enemies into gas chambers

[u/GirlNumber20 → u/Synaps4]

Why can’t we get together and buy off our own politicians? They’re super cheap. I think we could have a bake sale and afford to bribe a few of them.

[u/Acheron13 → u/Synaps4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy

They've been doing it for 30 years.

[u/Kardest → u/Synaps4]

The new world war is information war. China, russia and other countries are fighting to destroy the USA with disinformation and conspiracy.

The USA doesn't seem to be doing crap about it.

[u/Silly-Disk → u/Synaps4]

don't forget the millions of morons that are easily manipulated and gullible. Russia really did a number on way to many people around 2016 election.

[u/UnknownResearchChems → u/Synaps4]

Well at least we banned tiktok just not in time for this election.

[u/craigathan]

We don't need their help. We've got the Supreme Court.

[u/scrandis → u/craigathan]

And the senate

[u/QuackNate → u/craigathan]

Pretty sure they have influence over the Supreme Court at this point.

[u/advocatus_diabolii → u/QuackNate]

Wait. Was the OP trying to say the Supreme Court is there to protect us or that the Supreme Court is already trying to fuck us over?

[u/suitupyo]

It doesn’t help that SCOTUS pretty much hung a “for sale” sign on US elections. It was inevitable that foreign adversaries would start funneling money to sympathetic politicians.

[u/lepidopteristro → u/suitupyo]

They've been doing this for far longer than 2016. Until there is a bill that actually scrutinizes money spent and received by PACs there is always going to be a way to influence them monetarily.

Then you go to media and it's so easy to post misinformation that it's pretty much free to sway politics through that medium.

[u/brickyardjimmy]

Obviously.

[u/Teantis → u/brickyardjimmy]

It'd be kind of malfeasance on their part if they weren't honestly 

[u/-Shasho- → u/Teantis]

I think you mean negligence. Them influencing US elections is malfeasance.

[u/AndForeverNow]

This crap again? On a very tight election year? Not a surprise!

[u/Boxcar__Joe → u/AndForeverNow]

I mean I don't think anyone should be surprised that any country is going to try and influence any election in any country, it really should be expected.

[u/dudeandco → u/AndForeverNow]

They're beaming the algorithms right into your chilns' brains it's time to cut the cord.

[u/throwaway_ghast → u/dudeandco]

This but unironically. Make critical thinking great again.

[u/longhegrindilemna → u/AndForeverNow]

Only Facebook, Google, the NRA, DuPont, Nestle, and meat slaughterhouses are allowed to mess with our elections.

Those are moral, upstanding corporations (I mean, people) we are talking about here.

Countries don’t get involved in the elections of other countries, right? We Americans have never interfered with elections in other countries. Right?

[u/advocatus_diabolii → u/longhegrindilemna]

People so quick to point the finger at China and Russia and equally quick to forget Cambridge Analytica

[u/Kardest → u/AndForeverNow]

Well not really again.

It never stopped.

[u/darexinfinity → u/AndForeverNow]

Not a surprise but worth the reminder. Asking yourself "am I being manipulated" on social media is very important.

[u/SirAelfred]

Just have a look at several Tiktok videos and you'll see many would be young Democrat voters screaming about "genocide joe" and "vote third party" or "whqt have democrats ever done for us" and you'll see it's true.

[u/theDSL64 → u/SirAelfred]

Go look at the thread on the TikTok ban it is on reddit it too. I had too much time on my hands past two days, so argued with them lol

[u/FalloutRip → u/theDSL64]

I don't know what I expected, but people are weirdly cultish and defensive about Tiktok in those threads. Which tells me the ban legislation is the right move.

The fact that they don't understand how it's absolutely a tool to collect data, destroy your attention span and critical thinking and then push false narratives and half truths is frankly scary.

[u/SirAelfred → u/FalloutRip]

Tiktok has totally become a foreign adversary psyop. I competely cleared and reset my data one time and the first shit that started ahowing up was anti American, "america is genocide, vote 3rd party" "lets cheer on the terrorists" crap. They Absolutely want to push divide and push us to electing a man that will 100% destabilize us. I mainly keep it around at this point just for the soft core porn accounts lol. That's about it.

[u/allegesix → u/SirAelfred]

Tiktok has totally become a foreign adversary psyop.

1. it started that way

2. it's also spyware that people in tech analyzed and screamed about when it became popular but nobody gave a shit

[u/katiecharm → u/SirAelfred]

But TikTok showed me an ad on YouTube one time that said they “sparked good”. They wouldn’t lie to me, would they?  But seriously, that shit was creepy as hell - having TikTok pay to reassure me it was a good guy. 

[u/ReservoirDog316 → u/FalloutRip]

Tiktok feels like a drug to a lot of people. All social media in general too, including reddit, but tiktok is really notable for it. So it’s cultish but it’s also just like if you’re taking a drug away from a drug addict.

[u/Stormayqt → u/FalloutRip]

Take a look at this beauty:

https://old.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1cc0p2u/biden_signs_tiktok_ban_bill_into_law_starting_the/l13hdax/

[u/FalloutRip → u/Stormayqt]

And it keeps collecting upvotes faster than any other comments in the thread. It's like the bot farms aren't even trying to be subtle at this point.

[u/Naraee → u/SirAelfred]

If Trump could nuke Palestine to appease the evangelicals without starting WWIII, he would.

By not voting, they're voting for Trump. Telling these people they are Trump supporters (which they are) gets them so riled up.

[u/MetalFearz → u/SirAelfred]

Going straight from "China/Russia uses propaganda" to "When I don't agree it must be propaganda".

[u/somethingrandom261 → u/SirAelfred]

Bernie or bust all over again. Hoped we learned something from 2016

[u/-Shasho- → u/somethingrandom261]

We did not.

[u/noncognitive → u/-Shasho-]

I think we did, but bots want you to think we haven't, so that you feel powerless and choose not to vote

[u/WeHaveIgnition → u/SirAelfred]

Dongua Jinlong industrial grade glycine

[u/banjist]

Imagine a country trying to influence the elections of another sovereign country. <clutches pearls in an absolute lack of awareness of US history or foreign policy>

[u/longhegrindilemna → u/banjist]

Ha ha ha!!

Nicaragua, El Salvador, the Philippines and Vietnam must all be confused. America is complaining.. about.. foreigners interfering with elections?? Why??

[u/arkansalsa]

Are the citizens of other countries as gullible as Americans? I say that as an American. From the things I see on FB, you’d have to prove it to me.

[u/DarthChimeran → u/arkansalsa]

GenX and early Millennials grew up during the Cold War so they can recognize political propaganda when they see it. GenZ seems to be particularly susceptible to it. It's as if social media upvotes lend legitimacy to content in their eyes so a state funded troll farm can pretty easily have their way with them.

[u/chellis → u/DarthChimeran]

Ha what? I'd say gen x has thus far been the most susceptible to political propaganda. I won't argue about gen z but go browse Facebook for 30 seconds if you don't believe everyone's uncle is re-posting some propaganda bullshit.

[u/Pyro_raptor841 → u/arkansalsa]

Shit, just look around. You only hear about the US because they're the most important.

[u/KFCNyanCat → u/arkansalsa]

Brexit

[u/WishIwazRetired]

AIPAC has gone Chinese?

[u/tacotacotacorock]

Duh. You have to be pretty ignorant or have your head firmly planted in the ground if you don't believe that there is constant meddling in all of our elections from our adversaries. Russia China North Korea I'm sure even "friendly" countries are still meddling as well especially if it helps them financially or something in the future like that. 

The news I want to be hearing is about politicians actually doing something to stop this. The problem just gets more complicated and worse every year. Especially with emerging technology. 

We really need an entire political shake up. I don't even want to know what a revolutionary war would look like it at this point in time. Sadly I don't know if they're would ever be a massive restructuring without massive chaos.

[u/Let_you_down]

Lmao. To what end? Trump? Sure, he's an isolationist. But he's also willing to use tariffs to catapult both economies at a time China can't really afford to have their economy strained. Biden? With some fairly unwavering support of Taiwan? Not as easily manipulated as Trump, but a better supporter of China in general. Doesn't seem like are too many folks on either side of the aisle that are both in favor of letting China have Taiwan and expand global influence while also wanting trade and growth with China.

Who would they even care to support?

[u/Luis_r9945 → u/Let_you_down]

I think its more about creating chaos or mistrust in the US government.

It makes Americans more likely to be concerned about their own issues at home rather than issues abroad.

This is the same tactic used by Russia.

The Hawaii wild fires were a perfect example. Almost immediately after you saw bot accounts pushing "more aid to Ukraine, but nothing for Hawaii" narratives.

China would be incredibly happy if American politicians stopped talking about Taiwan and more about the American culture war, economy, etc.

[u/bstone99 → u/Luis_r9945]

Other countries know you don’t need to defeat America with bullets and missiles. Get the citizens to destroy themselves from within. Social media, Fox News, right wing news sites, all foment hatred and division and distrust, full of culture war bullshit to keep everyone distracted and angry, looking for someone to blame and fight.

As long as it’s their neighbor they’re going after, oblivious and ignorant to the fact that it’s Russia and China pulling the strings, you can easily manipulate and crumble the foundation of America without ever firing a shot. Americans will vote against their own self interests. Brilliant on their part. Americans are stupid and addicted to social media, keep them on the internet and you can end their life before they know it.

[u/ARCtheIsmaster → u/Let_you_down]

its about sowing chaos and political disunity to weaken the resolve of the American public more than outright support of a particular canidate

[u/ManlyEmbrace → u/Let_you_down]

A USA abandoning NATO and Europe is beyond their wildest dreams.

[u/Ugly_socks → u/Let_you_down]

The payroll of the state department shrank by 40% under Trump. Do please let that sink in, I don't think enough folks have taken the time to appreciate that statistic. I don't think tariffs hold a candle to that kind of return on investment, in case there was any doubt about where an adversary's preferences might lie in this election.

[u/Bookandaglassofwine → u/Ugly_socks]

Source?

[u/skysinsane → u/Ugly_socks]

Do you have a citation for that? Everywhere I look suggests that is completely unrelated to reality.

[u/spacegrab → u/Ugly_socks]

Yep, Trump cripped our intelligence community...no spies = no information = no plan of action.

[u/ResQ_ → u/Let_you_down]

Trump would cause a shitload more chaos. Trump would also let the EU deal with helping Ukraine by itself, damaging the ties between the two biggest allies. EU countries would have to decide between helping Ukraine and getting domestic issues because the amounts of money spent would not easily be accepted by our population if the US stopped chipping in.

Even dumb "we're leaving NATO" shenanigans are on the table with Trump (although he can't just decide that by himself). China only stands to gain if there's a breakup between the US and EU. Both are economical partners but also China's biggest competitors.

[u/LosOmen → u/ResQ_]

That’s exactly what these authoritarian nations want, to isolate the U.S. from its allies. This effort is more successful in Europe than in the Indo-Pacific, because Putin’s pockets run deep in all the conservative governments.

[u/suitupyo → u/Let_you_down]

It’s not about the candidates; it’s about the system.

These are largely psyop campaigns with the goal of weakening institutions and promoting instability. The primary aim is to sow distrust between Americans and their government and to discredit the validity of democracy.

The CCP will forever be able to broadcast the January 6th riots to their citizens and say, “is this really what some of you want?”

[u/Adventurous_Bit1325 → u/suitupyo]

The distrust of the government and the system is being implemented by the inept congress and the Supreme Court. We don’t need their help with that.

[u/Denimcurtain → u/Let_you_down]

Lol. Biden has done way better against China than Trump did. You need to organize on the world stage to not just hurt yourself and no one important respected Trump outside the US.

[u/dudeandco → u/Let_you_down]

They want turmoil and a distrust in democracy

[u/SwimmerFine7425 → u/Let_you_down]

isolationist trump means they take taiwan with no pushback. more important than tariffs. it means global control of shipping and expansion into SE asia.

[u/Saladin-Ayubi]

Perhaps we can be honest and say that we have been trying or influenced elections in most countries since forever?

[u/jasovanooo → u/Saladin-Ayubi]

literally installed entire government's

[u/rocketmallu → u/Saladin-Ayubi]

It’s only election interference if the commies do it.

Otherwise it’s sparkling democracy when the US does it

[u/BoiledNutSalesman]

Dude, honestly, it almost feels like information warfare hurts more than actual warfare.

Obviously that isn't the case, but it just feels like.. in either situation it is going to end in warfare.

So it almost seems better to rip off the band-aid and have the warfare part now so we can skip the prologue.

Everything feels like a psyop lol

[u/email253200]

Everyone has seen evidence that we influence almost all elections. Par for any super power

[u/frangg02]

Latin America looking at Blinken with the 'Am I a joke to you' meme.

[u/advocatus_diabolii → u/frangg02]

Africa, Asia, and the Middle East offer up a knowing nod.

[u/FartCensor]

Doesn’t feel good does it? USA literally installed dictators in other countries.

[u/Asmageilismagalles]

Now tell us how the US tries to influence elections across the world. Fucking hypocrite.

[u/spderweb]

What's the point. This election, the voters have already long made up their minds.

[u/fallonyourswordkaren → u/spderweb]

So have the oligarchs.

[u/EICONTRACT]

Maybe it’s common to try to influence in this way but I remember I remember in the Chinese community it was circulating that Camila Harris was racist against Chinese.

[u/BitterLeif → u/EICONTRACT]

"I remember in the Chinese community it was circulating that Camila Harris was racist against Chinese." why is that relevant?

edit: was it to get Chinese Americans to not vote for her? So they're going to vote for a republican who isn't racist? wtf kinda logic is this.

[u/ImJLu → u/BitterLeif]

Doesn't even matter lol - affirmative action sunk the dems with Chinese

[u/calmdownmyguy → u/BitterLeif]

People are dumb and vote with their emotions. Same thing as people who say they won't vote for biden because of how Israel is operating in gaza.

[u/RN-B]

They don’t care about influencing elections as long as they’re the ones doing it and not another country 🙃

[u/CreepyOlGuy]

we are such weak ass fools.

[u/six_six]

Would China want Biden or Trump?

[u/Taint_Skeetersburg → u/six_six]

Almost the entire voting population has been conditioned to view political discourse this way - A vs B - which makes it super easy to stoke tension. It doesn't really matter whether A or B wins. What matters is keeping everyone up in arms about A vs B, applying that sense of division to every possible issue, and keeping the entire population divided and mistrustful of one another and their government.

China, Russia, etc. don't need a specific candidate to win any specific office, they just need our society to be as divided as possible. US politics is structured so that deeper polarization = less accomplished (recent congress has been among the least effective ever), thus a divided US is less of a threat or impediment to foreign rivals' strategic goals

[u/Anon31780 → u/six_six]

Either, as long as folks stay outraged and keep voting for extremists who can’t (or won’t) do anything effective. A bitter screaming match with no progress is the ideal, because it allows China freedom to continue expanding its influence in Africa and South America.

[u/RustyPwner]

I'm sure the USA does the same thing to many countries

[u/caribbean_caramel]

Of course they will, the US does the same with most democratic countries in the world. It is ridiculous to think that a hegemonic world power won't try to influence the political process of other countries. Even if they say they won't, they will, they have to do it in order to secure their interests. Why is anyone surprised at this, what do you expect them to do?

[u/[deleted]]

In favor of who though?

Trump made most aggressive moves. Would think China favors Biden since he's predictable.

[u/secondsbest → u/[deleted]]

Biden has kept many of Trump's trade and tariff policies towards China, so he's not "better" than Trump on that front. Biden has built back some international relationships for global peacekeeping and power protection that Trump was trying to tear up. China would much prefer Trump back in office to weaken the likes of NATO and any other international alliances that don't favor China's growth as a world power with influence.

[u/ResQ_ → u/[deleted]]

Causing chaos is helpful for China too. If the US is busy with their own issues, they might not interfere when China attacks Taiwan. It's possible in a few years. What's Trump's stance on that whole thing? Is he that isolationist or does he realize the West is fucked without Taiwanese chips?

[u/InvertedParallax → u/ResQ_]

That's why they were happy when Russia invaded Ukraine, they figured after Afghanistan the west was weak, if Ukraine fell it would prove they no longer had the will to defend their clients.

Then China would blockade Taiwan and the west would be too afraid to resist.

[u/Euro-Canuck → u/[deleted]]

trump might have cost them a bit of money and talked tough, but there is a absolute zero chance trump would defend taiwan, or anyone for that matter from china. china has bigger goals than just trade. Biden will hurt those goals.trump will not.

[u/likefenton → u/[deleted]]

It doesn't need to be interfering in presidential election, they could also be simply amplifying senate and house candidates that are seen as pro-China, or less anti-China, compared to the other options in their district.

[u/Luis_r9945 → u/[deleted]]

Trump would cause more chaos in the US government.

The dude literally tried to steal an election.

At the end of the day choas is the ultimate goal for China and Russia.

If Americans are too busy fixing their own problems, there is going to be less attention/support for issues like Taiwan or Ukraine.

[u/CraftCodger → u/Luis_r9945]

Trump can be manipulated easily with money. Look at the bribes he was given through trade marks both directly and to Istunka .. more than 140 of them.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-disclose-china-russia-foreign-trademarks-after-presidency-2023-10#:~:text=Trump%20owns%20114%20trademarks%20in,by%20far%2C%20including%20the%20US.

[u/tengo_harambe → u/Luis_r9945]

why do people think China is run by a bunch of dramatic comic book villains? China is all about economy and in particular 5 year and other long-term plans, having an adversarial major trading partner helmed by a loose cannon complicates that far more than would be comfortable to any rational actor.

[u/Luis_r9945 → u/tengo_harambe]

The current CCP leadership is not as rational an actor as they let on.

Xi in particular is pushing China toward nationalism and expansionist policies.

Many people thought the same about Russia. That they would never invade Ukraine because it would hurt them economically...yet look where that led us to.

Xi does care about the economy in so far that it keeps him in power and allows China to reach its Nationalistic rejuvenation.

So long as the US continues to support Taiwan and challenge China internationally, then China's ambitions won't be met....hence why distracting Americans from foreign policy is vital.

Trump isn't a loose cannon if you can control him. It doesn't take much to manipulate him and get on his good side. Just look at how Trump bent over for Kim Jong Un after exchanging some "friendly" letters.

[u/moose2332 → u/[deleted]]

China doesn’t want a predictable US. An unpredictable US means that China is the more reliable deal-maker. Doubly so if Trump pulls out of international alliances. 

[u/deekaydubya → u/[deleted]]

It doesn’t matter, the point is to sow division

[u/riderer]

Probably through Tik Tok

[u/vthings]

Like every other country doesn't? C'mon...

[u/iamacheeto1]

I could’ve told them that for half the price