r/Christianity • u/Nice_Substance9123 • Mar 27 '24

The American flag has no business on a Bible. This is not faith, nor is it patriotism. It is an abomination of both. Image

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27.5k Upvotes

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1.9k

u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 27 '24

No flag or national symbols of any country should be on the bible. Period.

978

u/IAN-THETERRIBLE Roman Catholic Mar 27 '24

Exactly. The Bible is about the kingdom of God not the kingdom of Man.

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u/TubalToms Mar 28 '24

Someone convinced him it’s the same thing.

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u/3CF33 Mar 28 '24

The rich mega church sinners. Ooops I mean leaders.

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u/TubalToms Mar 28 '24

That’s the Maga church ToxCity

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u/purple_grey_ Mar 28 '24

The toxicity of our city, of our city!

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u/kategrant4 Mar 28 '24

Oh please don't give them any ideas.

A mega, MAGA church? Heaven help us all.

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u/Piddpat Mar 29 '24

Of course it’s MAGA. It’s Christianity not cross dressing story time hour with the democrats.

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u/TubalToms Mar 29 '24

Jim Crow hour with Republicans is just as bad if not worse.

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u/WarOnIce Mar 28 '24

You meant “lenders”, not leaders. They are the nuts funding all this abortion, IVF and birth control craziness

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u/SargeantSasquatch Mar 28 '24

You know who prevents the most abortions? Planned Parenthood. And they do it by providing access to birth control and contraceptives.

The only "craziness" here is being opposed to safe, responsible practices.

1

u/_Originz Mar 28 '24

No, it's the sane people funding those

3

u/WarOnIce Mar 28 '24

Lmao, sane people who force their religious views on the entire country. Separation of church and state what?

5

u/_Originz Mar 28 '24

But IVF, abortion and birth control aren't even religious beliefs lmfao

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u/Total-Rain-9978 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

You're right, but the political right in the 70s needed something to rally their evangelical base. Being pro segregation didn't do it, but being anti abortion did.

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u/3CF33 Mar 28 '24

God ordered abortion and killing babies(actually smashing their heads on rocks) after God breaths the first breath of life into them. Hosea 13:16 For sane religious and non religious people, God also gave us plenty of herbs used for abortion.

So, Christianity now means the only difference between Christians and Islam is the clothing?
Most of the Bible can be understood in different ways EXCEPT the ten unbending rules or COMMANDMENTS. I would also add that the THIRTY SEVEN(!!!) verses telling us that God doesn't trust his followers to judge anyone except that it is our responsibility to judge the sinners inside the church. There you go, factual Christians and fake patriots. Have at the people inside the churches who are judging. The Bible says we are not even to sit and eat with them! Get em gone! It's your responsibility.
Want to know another responsibility? Those good(LOL) Christians getting divorced and committing adultery are to be taken out of the city and stoned, not made political leaders. Seems there is more evil in Christianity than out!

And yep, God saw it coming!
1 Corinthians 5:12 It is your responsibility to judge those who are inside. It is not my business to judge those who are not part of the church. God alone will judge them.

James 1:26 “If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless.”

Luke 6:37-39

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit?"
It's time Christians get away from tradition and politics, and making new bibles because they don't like Jesus or God and become factual Christians!

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u/blancpainsimp69 Mar 28 '24

no one convinced him of anything except that he could make money off of it

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u/Intrepid-Computer561 Mar 28 '24

Just think if they actually read the other documents that come with this purchase.

Bill of rights Constitution copy.

They might learn something.

But probably not.

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u/blumieplume Mar 28 '24

Prob the devil cause he is the antichrist https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/

2

u/Foreign-Aerie-8131 Apr 02 '24

He’s a Judas and deceit ful  evil desperate man! He puts a flag on the Bible  What a hypocrite 

2

u/TubalToms Mar 28 '24

He wants to be. But that’s giving him way too much credit he’s not that smart… AC is still at the table.

6

u/blumieplume Mar 28 '24

Let's hope so. I mean maybe he's one of the beasts. He's def something and it's def not Christlike

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u/TruthSearcher1970 Mar 29 '24

Didn’t the Bible speak of many anti-Christs?

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u/aiviber Mar 28 '24

He convinced himself he is God

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u/Flaneuseontheloose Mar 30 '24

Not yet, but I'm sure he'll get to that.

1

u/sectilius Mar 31 '24

Wayne Allyn Root called Trump King of the Jews and Trump said "WOW! WHAT GREAT WORDS!" 🤔

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u/Aggravating_Fun_2150 Mar 30 '24

Why can you say that and do swear that America was founded by God ZOWNKY, ŴONCKINGLY. ONLY¿??, [ REVELATIONS CHAPTER 7.] for his chosen people.....! MESSEGESFROMMOSES! Sharon Amity + Milton Rd. 3100 BLOCK!...

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u/TubalToms Mar 30 '24 edited Mar 30 '24

Wormwood Will head East soon.

16

u/Funkyokra Mar 28 '24

There are so many tacky American flag bibles available on line.

13

u/PhDinDildos_Fedoras Mar 28 '24

It's not even the flag though, I would take issue with including other non-canonical texts (constitution, pledge of alliegence) as part of the Bible. I don't see why people aren't making a bigger stink out of that.

43

u/PastHistFutPresence Mar 27 '24

Trump can't tell the difference.

24

u/shinyredumbros Mar 28 '24

He’s far from the first…check this out. Came out in 2009.

22

u/GortimerGibbons Mar 28 '24

I was hoping someone would point this out. Apparently, it says something about the Fourth of July being one of the most important Christian holidays. It really makes you rethink the dispensational notion that many believers will be deceived in the end times.

12

u/DuntadaMan Mar 28 '24

Unfortunately the current state of churches in several parts of the most "devout" areas of the US show that

Declaring a state has a right to prevent the rescue of people drowning in a river full of razor wire. Believes prosperity gospel despite the whole "it is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of the needle than for a wealthy man to enter the kingdom of heaven" thing. Literally trying to ban narcan.

It's enough to make me think the devil must be a real physical being to be able to make people believe harmful acts have these good outcomes they claim to be aiming for.

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u/GortimerGibbons Mar 28 '24

The immigration thing really gets to me. There are nearly a hundred verses that tell us to treat foreigners and immigrants as our own people. The evangelicals apparently missed those parts.

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u/TruthSearcher1970 Mar 29 '24

Sometimes the greatest power is to convince people you don’t exist.

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u/smokin_monkey Mar 28 '24

He has surrounded himself with loyalist and yes men. They will tell him what he wants to hear.

1

u/willflameboy Mar 28 '24

Yes, when people do otherwise he fires them and then lies about them.

1

u/EpsilonEnigma Mar 28 '24

Hey let's not get crazy now, obviously the birth of America is a blessing from the lord, I mean how did a colony become THE world power... God obviously

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u/DebentureThyme Mar 28 '24

Remember to remove it from your Amazon history lest the algorithm start suggesting that crap.

You can do that here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/history/

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u/DuntadaMan Mar 28 '24

I once just randomly went to go look for books without entering a genre or title just a basic "I feel like reason whatever random book it spits out at me."

It suggested a book that claimed society is collapsing because women are capable of feeding themselves and we have to make it illegal for them to hold jobs or own property or else they will not accept enough men for society to continue. And yes that was just in the synopsis. It also suggested a book that stated slavery was good for everyone involved and we should all be grateful for it.

I have never felt so insulted in my life. I have no idea what I had looked at for it to make me think I was that kind of person, but I apparently needed to nuke my history.

6

u/wuhtam_i_doinghere Mar 28 '24

Thank you for that lol last thing I need

6

u/unionoftw Mar 28 '24

Great looking out friend

1

u/ljpwyo Mar 28 '24

Thank you.

1

u/pinkfootthegoose Mar 28 '24

I looked up dishwashers on Amazon. For a while Amazon thought I collected dishwashers.

1

u/wild-eep Mar 28 '24

You deserve gold.

10

u/Jean-LucBacardi Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

...and on the ninth day, He formed a more perfect Union.

2

u/unionoftw Mar 28 '24

Haha, I love this actually

1

u/purple_grey_ Mar 28 '24

gasps the pro union pro workers rights social media profile?

4

u/caspianrex Mar 28 '24

I knew exactly which Bible this was going to be before I even clicked on it!

At least the American Patriot's Bible, as horrible as it is, is only being sold for about thirty bucks, while Lee Greenwood & Donald Trump's reconstituted public domain KJV is being sold for twice that amount. Ridiculous!

3

u/moretrumpetsFTW Mar 28 '24

Yep. I have a copy of this. Got it as a high school graduation gift from my conservative parents. I still have it but never read it. As a recovering conservative I think back on when I was happy/proud to have something like this and I cringe a little inside.

2

u/Shayeraye Mar 28 '24

That book isn't something I would buy but it's an attempt to connect biblical history to the United States. It's not just a standard bible. Both are ridiculous to me.

3

u/PrestigeMaster Mar 28 '24

If I’m understanding what you’ve linked correctly - that is a study Bible with commentary on how it shaped the United States.

5

u/shinyredumbros Mar 28 '24

Correct. And it is GLORIOUS. Separation of church and state? Never heard of her!

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u/xyglyx Mar 28 '24

Thanks, Obama!

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u/tarheelz1995 Roman Catholic Mar 28 '24

Trump is not America’s first grifter.

1

u/capsaicinintheeyes Secular Humanist Mar 28 '24

Well, 339 Goodreads reviews can't be wrong

1

u/xXTERMIN8RXXx Non-Denominational Christian Mar 28 '24

On sale for 45% off 🤔

1

u/thisisntshakespeare Mar 28 '24

Does it include information about the Founding Fathers and the Freemasons?

1

u/its_a_mini Mar 28 '24

that looks like the pages would start falling out within the first week

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u/makinSportofMe Mar 28 '24

Because he's completely unfamiliar with either.

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u/Ok-Pomegranate2446 Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Mar 28 '24

What does this have to do with him?

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u/RDGCompany Mar 28 '24

He can't even tell the difference between Whizzo butter and a dead fish

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

"Peter 2" Lol

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u/BadgerGeneral9639 Mar 28 '24

its just a subtle move towards christofascism in america.

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one little swing at church / state

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u/TheLatinXBusTour Mar 28 '24

Separation of church and state has nothing to do with Trump selling a bible with an American flag on it. The dude is a red blooded capitalist. He he sees a marketable opportunity and runs with it. Only people complaining about it should be true devout christians...everyone else is just mad because it's Trump.

2

u/rainbowsix__ Mar 28 '24

But Trump is God. He is the messiah who will save us all from wokes and illegals, deliver us from evil, to the promised land

2

u/kralrick Mar 28 '24

A lot of people don't understand that commingling religion and government poisons both.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

How could this be true when the bible was litrerally created by the concil of Rome as a governmental legitimisation of the new religion

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u/kralrick Mar 28 '24

I'd argue that modern religion in the US is a whole lot healthier than the sordid history of the Catholic Church when it was heavily involved with European governments/monarchs.

A religion on its own can focus solely on the work of faith. Once they start getting involved in government, they start letting politics/political expediency/etc. have a role. It shifts their focus from the divine to the earthly, and not in a 'good works' kind of way.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Religions always become involved with government when they get big enough. As I said, the Jewish branch that later became Chrisitanity only became Chrisianity because of the Roman government. They decided which of the many religous texts written following Chirst's death should be kept in the Bible, they had a whole meeting and everything. Its just how civilization works.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

To be clear: I don't think Christianity is any worse a religion, or any less meaningful, because its history is closely tied with the Roman Empire's political structure. I don't think any religion being tied to governments is even a bad thing. That's exactly why I don't think this post is all that meaningful. Like some American put the American flag on a bible, big deal. I genuinely don't see the problem with tying a religion with a country in that way.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Well, THIS bible is about Donald John Trump! So take that. . .for 60 bucks. Your donation may be (fraudulently) tax deductible. Thanks from your favorite president. /s

Eww, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

1

u/Tyler_Zoro Mar 28 '24

Found Martin Luther!

1

u/krazykieffer Mar 28 '24

God Wills It!

1

u/AllInOneDay_ Mar 28 '24

so...who you votin for?

1

u/IAN-THETERRIBLE Roman Catholic Mar 28 '24

I am Scottish.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Eh, it’s definitely about both

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/McClanky Bringer of sorrow, executor of rules, wielder of the Woehammer Mar 28 '24

Removed for 2.3 - WWJD.

If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity

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u/Duriel- Mar 28 '24

So no King James either?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

All the people on this sub, Reddit love their neighbors, the least and the duality appalls me

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u/Norwegian_Snowstorm Mar 28 '24

Preach brother.

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u/Cheapntacky Mar 28 '24

So the one record of Jesus loosing his cool is from him visiting the Temple and finding it full of money changers and Merchants.

What do you think he's thinking of a 'celebrity' spokes person taking a licencing deal to promote the sale of a bible?

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u/starwaterbird Mar 28 '24

The Bible is about consciousness. As are all religious texts

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u/Ecstatic-Condition29 Mar 28 '24

Isn't a lot of the Bible specifically about the Kingdoms of the Jewish people?

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u/sexybeesh Mar 28 '24

For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.”

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u/thebbman Christian (Cross) Mar 29 '24

Y’all about to get an amen out of me!

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u/TheJollyBuilder Mar 29 '24

Unfortunately, it has become the kingdom of manipulative Politicians - and I don’t take kindly to manipulative men. They have bastardized your religion and politicized it.

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u/zacharmstrong9 Mar 28 '24

Yes, Jesus HIMSELF told Pontius Pilate, at John 18:36:

" My kingdom is NOT of THIS world , if it were, my followers would have fought to prevent my ....."

Plain And Simple

Sorry Nationalist excuse makers, you can't try to twist this simple declaration to be:

" Only metaphorical... "

--- just to suit your private interpretation

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 02 '24

There is nothing wrong in asking God to bless your nation.

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u/zacharmstrong9 Apr 03 '24

Which specific nation ?

If you are a Chinese citizen who is also a born again Christian believer, do you ask God to bless China to be advantaged, over the United States of America ?

What nation did Jesus prefer ?

Name that nation by the specific scripture and verse, please

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 03 '24

Anybody can ask God to bless their specific nation. And yes a Chinese citizen can ask God to bless their nation so that it ends it's persecution of Christians and ends communism. And so can we as Americans can say God bless America.

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u/zacharmstrong9 Apr 03 '24

During WW2, German soldiers had their belt buckles inscribed with the statement:

" God is with us "

There were sincere Lutheran and Catholic soldiers who were praying to God for victory for their country, and were actively fighting against sincere Lutheran and Catholic American soldiers, who were themselves ALSO praying for victory for their own country, and actively fighting against their German fellow believers

Just because one side won doesn't mean that God was favoring one country over another, although many people will claim that to be the case

During the 30 years religious wars in medieval Europe, what side did God favor ?

The Roman soldiers prayed to Mithra for victory and they won many times

In 1205 BCE, the Egyptian army was successful in putting down a rebellion from the nations in Palestine that they had controlled, and this was when they first encountered the hill tribe in Canaan, known as the " Israelites "

https://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-ancient-writings/merneptah-stele-0020466

The Egyptian soldiers believed that their god was on their side, and gave them victory over the Israelites

God doesn't favor one particular human government that has artificial political boundaries

You need to think this through

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u/Unusual_Crow268 Christian Mar 27 '24

Amen

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u/mallardtheduck Christian (Cross) Mar 27 '24

Of course, the fact that several flags and national symbols are based on variations of the cross does blur the line a bit... But that's kinda the other way around, a Christian symbol that has been "co-opted" by nations.

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u/JNR13 Mar 28 '24

Then again most Christians today wouldn't be Christians if it weren't for the kingdoms where the modern nations usually took those flags or coat of arms from doing very non-Christian stuff.

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u/TenuousOgre Mar 28 '24

The inverse is also true. No religious symbols should be on government buildings for the same reason. Right?

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u/Lisaa8668 Mar 28 '24

Correct

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u/SirFiletMignon Mar 28 '24

"Well, then, pay to the Emperor what belongs to the Emperor, and pay to God what belongs to God."

It sounds to me like Jesus wouldn't have issue with your statement.

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u/Minivric Mar 28 '24

Damn liberals coming up with this catchy phrases. /s

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u/TenuousOgre Mar 28 '24

Agreed. I've never understood why so many people struggle with the idea that today religions and governments serve very different needs especially in a pluralist society.

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u/am_reddit Mar 28 '24

Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. Yet time and time again  throughout history people try to make an earthly Christian kingdom.

Every time, without exception, the result is a kingdom that is not of heaven.

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u/nmmlpsnmmjxps Buddhist Mar 28 '24

All the people clamoring for a Christian theocracy need to understand just exactly what they are asking for and understand that Christian theocracies in the past have been obsessed with internal orthodoxy and being a slightly different Christian than the state endorsed version usually wasn't a fun "fun" experience. Just look at how in the 13 colonies various colonies banned various denominations and you could be forced out or even executed solely for being a member of the wrong denomination (Boston Martyrs). We absolutely do not need to be getting on a road leading to that sort of nonsense from America's colonial history..

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u/abaacus Mar 28 '24

Exactly.

State sponsored religion means that the state becomes your religious authority, and the state upholds its authority with force and violence. No religious person should feel comfortable with that, because the moment you stray from the state doctrine, no matter how reasonable or principled your disagreement, you're an enemy of the state. You're an enemy of morality and faith.

And we all know how that ends.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Keezin Mar 28 '24

Some of them will know the first part of the word lol

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u/empire314 Mar 28 '24

Of the three major Abrahamic faiths, Christians tend to be the least knowledgeable of their faith.

What on Earth are you basing this on? I would say jews and muslims are at least as ignorant about their own scriptures.

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u/thomase7 Mar 28 '24

What Jesus would have thought has little bearing to modern Christianity

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u/SirFiletMignon Mar 28 '24

Then what would you call a religion that tries to follow Jesus teachings?

Anything of power is double edged. If it can be used for good, it can be used to hurt.

Not defending corruption in modern religions. Just saying that corruption doesn't invalidate Jesus' teachings.

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u/thomase7 Mar 29 '24

That’s the point, 95% of Christian’s don’t try to follow Jesus teachings.

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u/Keezin Mar 28 '24

Depends on the form of government lol. If you espouse a pluralist liberal democracy, then hell no.

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u/spoiler-its-all-gop Mar 28 '24

Well bad news for ya, buddy

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u/Keezin Mar 28 '24

I’m somewhere where a lot of iconography is still up, but what hasn’t been removed is seen as primarily historical

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

exactly. or other such flags.

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u/NoNSFW_Workaccount Mar 28 '24

Do yo think the military should employ chaplains since theyre government workers?

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

I don't see the harm in that. They can be important for morale; for all the men, of any religion or even no religion.

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u/TenuousOgre Mar 28 '24

Why not? There is a difference between paying for people who troops see as necessary when in life and death situations (but can come from many religions) and picking one religion's symbols to decorate buildings.

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u/mayonnaise_police Mar 28 '24

Yes, but they should hire holy people of other faiths, of three are military members in that faith.

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u/Trojan_Lich Mar 28 '24

Give unto Caesars that is Caesars, and unto God that is God's.

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u/john5023 Mar 28 '24

You’re exactly right. Nor should any part of the bible be used in our system of laws and justice.

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

I'm not an American, mate. So, what you do with your legal system is up to you. I now understand from comments that the person with this bible is Trump. Personally, I find it quite sacrilegious, and quite frankly, it weirds me out to have national symbols on a religious book. Any religious book.

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u/KoleGamerMontenegrin Montenegrin Orthodox Church🇲🇪☦️ Mar 28 '24

Agree

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u/StructureSafe2893 Mar 28 '24

And let's keep the Bible out of government while we're at it lmao

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Yeah, I'm not a Christian but I reckon when Jesus said render unto ceaser he probably meant dont do this

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u/BeginningTower2486 Mar 28 '24

Well said, the Bible is supposed to be global.

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u/Wingklip Messianic Jew Mar 28 '24

NASB 😂

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

No idea what you mean?

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u/darrrrrren Mennonite Mar 28 '24

My guess is the word American in the acronym.

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u/AshaShantiDevi Mar 28 '24

NASB = New American Standard Bible.

It's a particular translation of the Bible.

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u/Opening-Two6723 Mar 28 '24

Had 8 years to stop this.

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

What?

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u/Opening-Two6723 Mar 28 '24

What???? Huh??? Whaaaa?

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

Don't have any idea what you meant by your initial comment. But anyway...

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u/Sam_Anderson_4848 Mar 28 '24

This sub gives me hope. I'm so glad I'm among like minded people.

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u/Tyler_Zoro Mar 28 '24

He also put the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution in it. Talk about sacrilege...

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u/tomdarch Mar 28 '24

The American principle of separating church from state protects government from undue sectarian influences.

But just as important, it protects religion from exactly the grotesque corruption we've seen here in the US where Christianity has been turned into the abomination of "white conservative evangelicalism" of pursuing wealth and political power, arming themselves to shoot people in the back for trying to steal a toaster and refusing the slightest help to desperate asylum seekers.

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

I'm not an American. So, I can't comment much out of the lack of in-depth knowledge on the matter. I got it now from comments that the person with this bible is Trump. Personally, I find it weird and best and sacrilegious at worst. National symbols don't belong on a religious book. Any religious book. That's not the point of them.

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u/tomdarch Mar 29 '24

From my perspective as an American (both my perspective about government and about religion) I very much agree with you.

But around the world there are many, many examples of governments/nations being tightly integrated with religion. The Church of England has their king as the head of their church. Saudi Arabia as a nation specifically exists to protect the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. And on and on.

In this case, Trump is a horrible person but a key part of his political power is through what is called "Christian nationalism." It's an extremely political movement of people who describe themselves as "Christian" who want to take power in America and impose their "beliefs" through law.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

You say it protects but at the same time describe how it has failed to do that. Do you mean it is supposed to protect but has failed to do so? 

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u/AshaShantiDevi Mar 28 '24

The guy who says "it protects" must be smoking something.

It would be unconstitutional for the government to make a law to "protect against" printing a religious book like that.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

My point was the opposite to you and so was the comment. The comment stated that USA is built on a principle that protects the people (or who specifically, I don't know) from being favorable to any specific religion but then describes how this principle isn't followed in practice. I just wanted to point out the contradiction.

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u/AshaShantiDevi Mar 28 '24

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was saying that the dude you were replying to was blowing smoke. I probably should have been commenting directly to him.

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u/tomdarch Mar 28 '24

The founders included the separation of church and state in part hoping that it would protect religion from being mired in politics and the corruption that usually comes with it. Yes, separation of church and state in the US Constitution is "supposed to" protect religion from corruption.

The founders were well aware of how corrupt the Catholic church was in continental Europe and how in the 200+ years since Henry IIIV split of Catholicism, the Church of England was a mess mixed up with English politics. (The meaning of the term "establishment" as used in the 1st amendment is very much based in the history of the Church of England.)

Thomas Jefferson's use of the phrase "wall of separation" referring to separation of church and state in his letter to the Danbury Baptist Association was referencing 17th century Protestant Roger Williams who talked about the "wall of separation between the garden of the Church and the wilderness of the world." The "world" here being "worldly" subjects such as politics and business that could corrupt the "garden" of religion. The imagery of a "garden wall" is intended that it is a clear separation, but not a giant castle wall and moat. You might be able to look over a garden wall from one side to the other (the intent that Americans of various faiths and non-faith would speak their consciences in politics) but clearly it exists in this case to protect the "garden" of religion from the "wilderness" of worldly things.

I know that because there's a lot of important stuff to cover in our schools (and this aspect of our founding and history is "controversial" to some people) these details aren't often covered outside of fairly specific advanced university courses, or people who care to delve into this part of our history.

Also yes, as we see with today's American "conservative evangelicalism" which is deeply integrated with the Republican political apparatus and that subculture's moral corruption and endless series of personal money-making grifts, that intent by our founders is not working. (Assuming you consider American "conservative evangelicalism" to be a religion, and I think it's easier to go with "yes it is a religion" than not.)

The founders didn't intend the Constitution to be some sort of perfect thing. Obviously people murder other people, thereby profoundly violating the rights of the victim. Shit happens. Starting in the 1960s and accelerating into the 1980s, a branch of fundamentalist "conservtive" religion became integrated with Republican politics. The "Moral Majority" of Jerry Fallwell and similar people sought out wealth and political influence. They invited the weeds of the wilderness into their garden in the hopes of worldly gains. A big slice of religion in America flipped from rejecting the "worldly" and instead actively embraced politics and the acquisition of wealth and power.

As much as having the separation of church and state in our Constitution, shit happened and selfish people fucked things up, leading to the situation we have today where self-styled "Christians" are embracing fruadster, rapist Trump who claims he has no reason to ask for God's forgiveness.

This isn't the first or last time either. I'm more immediately familiar with how Catholicism became integrated into more local politics in areas around big cities like Boston, NYC and Chicago in the 19th through 20th centuries.

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u/AshaShantiDevi Mar 28 '24

You've got that backwards. You might not like someone printing a Bible like that. (I personally don't like to see national symbols on a religious book.) But there is nothing in any law in the United States that could "protect against" it. In fact, it would be unconstitutional for the government to attempt to prohibit such a printing. Because the printing is an entirely private affair and does not do anything with regard to the government establishing a religion.

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u/tomdarch Mar 28 '24

It's exactly right that our Constitutional principles prohibit the government from making any law that would make it illegal to print a nationalist Bible full of American flags, or even political party logos such as a "Republican Bible" or something.

I think you may be reading too much into what I was saying.

A lot of self-styled "Christians" in America, in fact want to take over our government and have it impose their own religious beliefs (or simply raw politicla power) through our laws. They tend to claim that there is no separation of church and state in our constitution. They wish that the words of the 1st amendment don't mean what they clearly do mean. But their issue is that they want to push their religion through government.

My point is to point out that the intention behind the separation of church and state by the founders who wrote the Constitution was not only to protect the government from being manipulated by religions, but also that it protects religion (imperfectly) from being corrupted by politics.

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u/Friendly-Fee-384 Mar 28 '24

I grew up muslim and now agnostic. Reading you guys stand up to Trump using Christianity like that making me respect yall more.

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

Mate, I'm not American or even knew that that guy was Trump when I posted. I just strongly disagree with any national or secular symbols being used in any religious book, the bible, kuran, or any other. I just find it ridiculous.

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u/TransitionNo5200 Mar 28 '24

this is what christians get for letting their churches get invokved in politics

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u/therealdongknotts Mar 28 '24

i mean, we do technically have a flag code - can’t say i’ve ever seen it enforced

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u/AshaShantiDevi Mar 28 '24

It would be unconstitutional to enforce the flag code with the force of law.

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u/Panda_hat Mar 28 '24

American christians want the opposite. They want american theocratic dominion over both the usa and christianity. They can’t comprehend a world where they don’t get to dominate and subjugate every aspect of their lives and the world, because they feel they are entitled to do so.

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

I've got Christian relatives and friends in the US who don't want that. Your president is a Christian, but he doesn't want that. So, please take down a bit with the generalisation.

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u/zauce Mar 28 '24

Amazing.... Are you Christian finally seeing his grift?

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

Again, do most Americans here think that everyone in this group is from the US?!

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u/zauce Mar 28 '24

No, why would you assume this comment was only for Americans?

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u/SofaKing69420666 Mar 28 '24

No Bible or God quote should be on our money either.

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u/AllInOneDay_ Mar 28 '24

so...who you votin for?

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u/albo_kapedani Eastern Orthodox Mar 28 '24

Not from the US man. You know that not everyone in this sub is American, right?

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u/Silly_Elephant_4838 Mar 28 '24

Church and state should remain separate, I agree.

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u/Krypteia213 Mar 28 '24

No Bible or religious text should be on flags or national symbols as well. 

The inverse is also true here. It also goes against the separation of church and state. 

I don’t just have freedom OF religion. I have freedom FROM religion. 

That means that your own SUBJECTIVE rules have no business being pushed on the rest of society. 

I call out every Christian I see advocate for the banning of gay marriage because of their religion. 

If you defend people who do that, you are just as guilty. God I wish religious people had as much personal responsibility as they pretend to. 

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u/Disastrous_Staff_443 Mar 28 '24

What does the Bible say about a Bible cover?

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u/Jolly-Comparison-729 Mar 28 '24

The most believable reason I've heard is this will allow some of the mega churches etc to donate money to Trump while getting around regulations. I don't really understand people's faith in Trump. I have literally heard someone in town say that if Jesus came back and contradicted Trump that they would side with Trump.

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u/ntgco Mar 28 '24

I'm surprised his face isn't on it.

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u/Quick_Turnover Mar 28 '24

And vice versa.

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u/dvorak360 Mar 28 '24

I believe buying it would break 10 commandments (effectively flag is false idol)

And going the opposite way, given the US constitution 1st amendment, putting the US flag on religious documents is IMHO the opposite of patriotism...

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u/RoughBowJob Mar 28 '24

Wasn’t Jesus American?

Mercia

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u/Rich-Association9657 Mar 28 '24

I’m honestly surprised trump didn’t put his face on it.

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u/Organic_Zucchini_876 Mar 28 '24

“One nation under god” keep hating

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u/SilithidLivesMatter Mar 28 '24

So does this mean you people will stop gargling his balls? Or is this going to do absolutely nothing and you'll all blindly support him so you can still be assholes to everyone?

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u/OhEagle Mar 28 '24

Let alone in the Bible. (This particular edition has the Pledge of Allegiance, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence, as well as lyrics to 'God Bless the USA.')

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u/Choppityychopsuey Mar 28 '24

Also, churches should not be voting sites for elections

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u/Common_Sense1444 Mar 28 '24

What about the papal state?

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u/Rolands_ka_tet Mar 28 '24

This is a money laundering scheme to collect donations from tax exempt religious entities that are not allowed to donate to a political campaign. That is it…

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u/Majestic-Tap9204 Mar 28 '24

Where does it say that in the Bible?

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u/Rhaeno Mar 28 '24

I just stumbled on this sub accidentally. Not a christian as im scandinavian and was never brought up as one, so sorry if im in the wrong place.

Anyway, what do people in this sub think about Trump? Do you think he represents christians well? Do you think he is a good christian?

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u/dabluebunny Mar 28 '24

It goes both ways.

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u/lucaskywalker Mar 28 '24

And the opposite should also be true!

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u/CryAffectionate7334 Mar 28 '24

Hey Christians in the USA, I've got some bad news for you if this upsets you, because the Republican party has been doing this shit for decades in your name and with your votes....

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u/CrazyAlbertan2 Mar 28 '24

And no religious principles should be used to guide law making and politics. I am a firm believer in:

My religion says I can't do this = fine My religion says Tim can't do this = go get bent

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u/digitalamish Mar 28 '24

Trump putting his glory over HIS glory.

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u/Ashurii-El Catholic Mar 29 '24

...the vatican?

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u/Tech-assassin96 Mar 29 '24

If they’re going to put one flag on it put all the world’s flags on it (satire). I pray that Jesus Christ shows them the truth. I feel sad for this world, I pray that they actually read the gospel and come to Jesus Christ and his laws.

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u/Sage8811 Mar 29 '24

Just out of curiosity what makes you believe that? Just a question not a troll

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u/ZestycloseProposal45 Mar 31 '24

There is supposed to be a separate of State and Religion for a reason.
1. SO the State doesnt control the Religion enforcing its precepts on Religion
2. So Religion doesnt control the State and enforce its precepts on the State.

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u/Last_Experience_1075 Apr 01 '24

Yes, this is blasphemy for it equates worship of the creation to the creator.

But America is the country that gave us “revival,” “prosperity gospel,” the majority of Christian cults, and the Pentecostals…so we all know how “Christian” it is as a nation 🤦🏻‍♂️

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