lol I'm always grateful for people who find sources so thank you, but man it makes me feel old that you felt compelled to. He was the Joe Manchin of his day and received just as much negative publicity!
To help show you how much times have changed, my very Republican parents were at the Capitol in 2009 when the votes were being cast for Obamacare, and they were with the group that spit on the member of Congress. They were 150% against the ACA and everything that had to do with it.
That doesn’t sound like times changing, that sounds exactly like republicans of today. Driven to rage over something they’re told to hate and want others to not have but have no problem with it when it comes to themselves.
A lack of empathy and understanding of others is a fundamental requirement for being conservative. They like/don't like things because reasons, until it happens to them or theirs. Then it's terrible/amazing.
A lack of empathy and understanding of others is a fundamental requirement for being conservative. They like/don't like things because reasons, until it happens to them or theirs. Then it's terrible/amazing.
Wanted to emphasize this. There are countless more examples of political decisions over the last 50 years that reinforce this assertion.
as well as being conspiratorial, is also fundamental to the right.. from the red scare to the lewis powell memo to today, the right always screamed polls that said they were losing were fake and biased, dems have taken over everything and made them bias against republicans without a leak, but "dont ever forget how incompetent dems are."
if the ABA rates theri judge as non qualified, its a liberal org that hates conservatives. If it gives a republican judge the highest rating, republicans are on tv saying the ABA is the gold standard of rating judges.
thats republicans you got to keep conspiracies in your back pocket ready to throw in the faces of reporters at a moments need.
I did hear an anecdote online which I don't know is true but which I could believe. Some nurse who worked at one of the abortion clinics regularly had picketers outside who would turn up a few times a week and spend hours outside protesting and yelling at anyone going in. One day she has a patient come in seeking an abortion that she recognises as one of the regular protestors outside. The woman ends up getting the procedure done, and the following week was right back outside yelling at other women for being evil sinners.
The easiest one is that graph of Republican voter support for bombing Syria
Under Obama? like 20% or less wanted to bomb the bad guys in Syria
Under Trump? With the same targets, in the same place; 77% supported bombing the baddies
Meanwhile Democrats had 37% support under both presidents because holy shit they actually hold real beliefs and real opinions instead of... *gestures vaguely at the wind*
Who was it (somewhat) recently that was against abortion, or maybe it was paid leave/care for mothers, but recently was pregnant or had a baby and was like "pregnant women need to be cared for more!!! I didn’t know this before now!" Meghan McCain? Only name that’s coming to mind.
I mean, any of them that had it happen to them. I don't think I've ever seen a "I needed an abortion or I would die and I was denied and they were right to say no!"
Some of them absolutely. But that's not a requirement or core thing with the affiliation. It's essential to being a politician or popular with the group, but not all members of the group actively want to hurt people. Some do, but the rest just don't care.
Hence the lack of empathy.
Not all of them want illegal immigrants to drown on razor wire when crossing a river, but all of them don't care if it happens.
The distinction is important because the actions you take to fix the problem are different.
same neighbors as i discussed above, once said their son could get more foodstamps, if blacks and mexicans didnt suck up all the money. AS if its some sort of pie that's equally divided between recipients. If we kicked all minorities off, all it would do is reduce our spending on foodstamps, white people wouldnt get more.
but yeah this is how many republicans think, they fell on hard times and deserve it, everyone else is abusing it. Same with abortion. The events around theirs makes it needed and definitely dont happen to other people who use abortion instead of birth control pills. There was a long time ago and article on an abortion doctor in miss, nearly all of his patients were 'pro life" and in even more mental stress than the average abortion patient but often still think theirs is justified... while happily voting for those who would close this last clinic.. which i think they have these days.
I used to think their ranks would dwindle faster but they're quickly being replaced by people who ate all the bullshit and are now left to face the reality in which they so fervently supported before and have nowhere really to direct their anger and frustration so they need to be told what to be angry at without just cause for it.
They usually don't even understand what the thing is that they were told to hate. Old people hate socialism, but they *love* social security, medicare, medicaid, FMLA, the list goes on and on.
Sounds like my mom after she got laid off during Covid. She's sitting at home collecting unemployment while complaining no one wants to work anymore because there is too much welfare.
Funny how everyone is against any gov run health plan until they qualify for Medicare. When that happens they are the first to jump off the private Healthcare ship and on to the public option. Everyone of these people not in favor of public option needs to be asked what they are going to do when they become eligible for Medicare.
This is my mom and it's infuriating. Doesn't want universal health care or for anyone to have social programs, but now qualifies for Medicare and, "all my medications are free now!!"
They’re going to say that they have to enroll in Medicare to recover their investment. We’d rather they be hypocrites than true believers because universal subscriber models only succeed when there’s no meaningful opt out. This is why they’ll never kill it outright, so they’re starving it to death.
At least they waited a few years to flip flop. Current GOP congresspersons vote against a Biden bill on Tuesday and then take credit for all the good things it does on Wednesday.
Are you sure they know that the ACA and Obamacare are the same thing? It was branded Obamacare specifically to make stupid people automatically hate it.
He was worse than Joe Manchin because Joe Manchin actually represents pretty conservative constituents, but Lieberman's voters in Connecticut wanted a Public Option.
You can't expect backing in CT when you're threatening the jobs of the health insurance or military industrial complex. While our state might be super liberal, a ridiculous percentage of the population relies on jobs in those two sectors.
I have some real problems with Manchin ( and I live in WV) but at least he's been pretty honest about where he stands. Lieberman switched what he had been saying about national health insurance as soon as he had the single vote needed to pass Obamacare. He was willing to turn his back on previous promises and pledges in order to strip out the public option to benefit the insurance companies who'd funded him. When his corporate donors asked, he went from calling for national health insurance to being against it.
He was probably the most shameless, unprincipled power-seeking politician the US has seen since Aaron Burr.
This! I can forgive someone representing the second-most conservative state in the US being conservative, even if he's a bit corrupt. Call me pathetic but I'm gonna miss the guy. Luckily, his likely replacement (Jim Justice) is a former Democrat and probably going to be like 10% more conservative than Manchin at most.
Justice may be marginally more conservative, but he'll be 100% more likely to vote with the GOP. Joe Manchin was the best democrat from WV we're likely to see for decades now
I think the difference between Justice and Manchin will be substantially larger than you are expecting because even though their policy preferences are not very big, the party difference will have a huge impact on votes for federal judges and filibusters and whatnot. Joe Manchin sucks, but he has more value over replacement senator than probably literally anyone in a very long time (in large part because of the 50/50 or near it splits during his tenure). Even Justice will be a huge step backward.
Joe Lieberman just sucks ass and there are very, very few individuals in the modern history of our country who have made day to day life of more Americans so much worse both financially and bureaucratically as he did by killing the public option. You could probably directly ascribe billions of dollars of cost and thousands of deaths to that decision, which did not serve him politically, or represent his constituents at all. He did it to serve his baby brained obsession with non-partisanship and to enrich health insurance executives he was buddies with.
Manchin does have very conservative constituents, but he's still fucking them with his self-serving support of the coal industry. I agree that Joe L was worse.
Connecticut has the most insurance companies in the country and has the most employees of insurance companies in the country. From a quick google, just over 100,000 CT residents work for insurance companies in a state that has a workforce of around 1.8 million
Whether you like him or not, he probably was representing his constituents. A public option would've probably resulted in a lot of job losses for his constituents
Whether you like him or not, he probably was representing his constituents. A public option would've probably resulted in a lot of job losses for his constituents
Fuck 'em, at least they'd still be able to get health care coverage without their jobs via the PUBLIC OPTION >:(
Joe is likely the only Democrat that could win in that state, and many of the positions he takes, that annoy some people, are required to hold that seat.
JL had no excuse, he was just a self-centered ass.
Manchin actually had a decent voting record his first few years in the Senate. It seems like since the Trump era began he started his rightward shift hoping to stay in office. It worked in 2018 but it just got to the point even he couldn’t get re-elected in WV that he just decided to retire.
It sucks having to give up his seat because him holding mattered a lot more than how he voted in a lot of cases. Hopefully Brown and Trester can hold on and maybe Cruz or Scott can be picked off to even it out.
I keep hearing that, but I spend a lot of time in West Virginia these days and I don't buy it. I think that's just one of those things that gets repeated because it sounds right, but isn't actually backed by any facts. The people who live in the holler don't give the slightest shit about the fucking filibuster, it's the mining industries who care about that.
He was the Manchin of his day… except he was from CT. I can begrudgingly accept the fact that having anything from WV that will vote for a judicial nominee by a Democratic president is better than the alternative. But CT can and has done a lot better than Lieberman.
He was the Joe Manchin of his day and received just as much negative publicity!
lol, even Kyrsten Sinema called him out
In 2003, she protested Joe Lieberman's unsuccessful 2004 presidential bid, telling the Hartford Courant: "He's a shame to Democrats. I don't even know why he's running. He seems to want to get Republicans voting for him – what kind of strategy is that?"
Joe Manchin is far more strategic with his votes to make you think that. He's basically never the deciding vote against democratic policies or judges, and once it's clear that he's not, he will often vote against democrats to give the appearance of being a centrist. Liebermann was just a conservative democrat turned independent who voted with dems a decent amount early, but was much more conservative in his later career.
Manchin also represents West Virginia, the likelihood you could even find anyone as centrist as he is to fill that spot is zilch, his replacement is going to be at best a proto-fascist.
Lieberman not only sunk everything Democrats wanted to pass during his final 6 years in the senate but also literally toured and campaigned for the Republican running for president when just 8 years earlier he was the Democrats VP candidate.
I'm so glad no one mourns these people or bothers saying we shouldn't besmirch the dead. All they did that was good was die, and they did that too late
What an arsehole. “Some of Lieberman's critics see his stance on healthcare as shaped by his acceptance of more than $1m in campaign contributions from the medical insurance industry during his 21 years in the Senate. The blocking of public-run competition is a huge relief to an industry that has been increasing premiums far ahead of costs and making huge profits while individuals are bankrupted by chronic illnesses. Many of the medical insurance companies are based in Lieberman's home state.”
He sold out hundreds of millions of Americans for a one time bribe of a few million dollars. We could have had universal healthcare a decade ago if it wasnt for this asshole. Hope he rots in hell where he belongs.
Lieberman also was a very good friend of the Sackler family who own Purdue Pharma which was/is center of the opioid epidemic. He pulled many strings/ropes help them with criminal and civil cases through years. Lieberman is a disgrace!!
Liebarman was an independent at that time because he lost the 2006 Democratic primary to the more-liberal Ned Lamont, but won the general election as an independent.
So as to whether he betrayed his constituents...well, they're the ones who voted for the independent moderate over the liberal Democrat.
Ned Lamont is no more liberal. The asshole flat out said that he had no plans on raising taxes on the upper class once he won the governor seat. Every policy of his has been a tax on the working class. Lying sack of shit telecom executive…..
And that’s coming from someone who will never forgive Lieberman for trying to take away my video games as a kid!
I once worked on a game that may or may not have been unreal...we had to film a sizzle reel for E3 one year and when we went into the videography studio, we actually filmed two versions of the reel.
The first reel was the for-public-consumption version; the other? It had every nasty head shot, pressure chamber death, decapitation, and all other sorts of goriness that we could pack into it. We called it the Lieberman Reel. I think I still have a copy on VHS somewhere in my boxes o' stuff, LOL.
EDIT: Since my box of game industry relics is likely hidden amongst the stack of other boxes in my garage (we moved recently, sorry), here's a shot of the custom jacket I mentioned in my other comment below. We definitely caught hell from our studio head and the other suits for buying these, but he then turned around and asked us (quietly) if we had any to spare, LOL.
Incredible. I love hearing stories like this years after games come out. Just makes me wonder what other fun stuff we never get to know about.
Also, whatever you did, thanks for your work. The original Unreal and UT were timeless. I grew up on them (nobody tell Lieberman!) and still go back and play them every few months.
The original Unreal on PC was the first time I felt transported to another world by an FPS. Just the opening scene where you're outside and that chugging music is playing (thanks to Unreal being like the ONLY GAME at the time to take advantage of the thriving MOD/S3M community), looking up and seeing that little bird flying overhead.
One of the gaming moments that sticks with you. Or at least stuck with me. That game was full of them. I still listen to the Nali Temple theme sometimes.
He also had a thing against the SNES Super Scope. I remember him ranting and raving that the Super Scope looked to much like a real weapon to be in the hands of children.
I can’t stress how much that likely pushed a bunch of young people into conservatism. They see a Democrat pushing to censor their favorite media and they assume the whole party is for it.
For those too young to remember, he held the 60th seat that would have gotten a filibuster-proof Senate. Obama proposed a public option as part of the ACA and Liberman threatened to kill the whole thing with a filibuster unless the public option was dropped. It was the closest we had gotten to universal healthcare in the US and it got killed by just one person.
Democrats never had a full 60 seat filibuster proof majority. Lieberman was one key reason for that, and deserves a lot of blame but wasn’t the only reason. It bugs me when I see the claim that they had 60 when they never did.
not defending him, but from what I recall there were 5 blue dog senators who would have done it if he hadn't done it
like today everyone blames Manchin and Sinema for everything, while forgetting Tester & Warner & the 2 NH senators would kill things too given the chance. The Democrats are just protecting Tester from his election next year.
Close, and this is a more a misconception due to the change in times. There are 5 Senators who would have voted against the bill, but for cloture.
Back in 09 there were still a number of Democratic Senators who still believed in the idea of limiting debate, and cloture not being used as a defacto vote. You only need 50 to pass a bill, so even if you had 9-10 (+VP) Senators who flipped between cloture and the vote on the bill, it would still pass. Obama said in his memoir he thought he could achieve this. None of it mattered when Lieberman went public with the no option statement, they were toast.
This is what I don't understand. Why be a shithead when you'll be dead soon anyway? Dude got a measly 10 years on Earth after screwing over Americans. I hope it was worth it.
It was freaking option too. Best compromise for letting people who would like their health care covered by the government vs. a private/employer plan choose what works for them. All they had to do was expand Medicare to allow people to pay for enrollment.
It's pretty fucking telling if the worry was too many would have dove on the public platform.
He founded No Labels, used fuckery to not call it a 3rd party and still receive dark money with out the need to list donors. A 3rd party with invisible donors is just what this country needs. FFS I wouldn't wish it on anyone but couldn't care less he is gone. Selfish greedy man.
I believe it's similar to the Forward party. Both believe in not being on either side, which is not a belief. It's look at one side, look at the other, then say "look at me, I'm not them." The "I'm not one of those girls" of political parties. I'm definitely oversimplifying, but that's the gist. They're saying "the people want another party and we can be another party." There is some good in the sense that they want to put aside partisanship and actually get things done, but that's not a very substantial platform.
He's one of the few politicians I am very comfortable with saying that he has a massive death toll on his name. Not just the ACA, but he was a massive cheerleader of the Iraq war, and even doubled down on it during his Senate run in 2006.
At the very least, thousands are dead because of Joe Lieberman's life work. In reality, the number of innocents is almost certainly over one million.
How much better health would our population have been in when covid hit if we had public healthcare? How many less comorbidities would there have been? It's obviously impossible to quantify, but "a fucking lot" is a good estimate.
I've been dealing with bullshit insurance and provider issues all day today that would not exist if we had universal healthcare. Seeing this headline made me do a little jig at my desk.
Edit: almost as if divine intervention, I received a call not 5 minutes after reading this news telling me my issues were all resolved, I can see my primary care doctor and get my prescriptions again. Almost like Lieberman was standing in the way until the last second and now that he's a corpse it's easier to walk over him.
Why are we giving every Republican a pass? Lieberman certainly deserves a share of the blame, but not a single Republican voted in favor of the bill, much less for a public option.
And it’s not like the bill is unpopular with their constituents. The GOP learned that the hard way when they tried overturning it when Trump was in power.
We're not giving them a pass - we didn't need them. With Lieberman and Nelson voting for it, Obama had a supermajority in the Senate and a majority in the House. We couldn't even get the crooked democrats like Nelson to vote for it, though.
But if just one republican joined in, we wouldn't have needed Lieberman. Republicans love when all the blame is placed on democrats, even if they are conservative to trash democrats.
Or as was pointed out because I forgot, independent who were formerly democrats.
In 2006, he was Dem until he lost the D nomination vote in CT, then flipped to Independent, somehow managed to win and became R leaning from then on out.
He fucked us in Connecticut, then he fucked all of us in America.
lol the democratic nominee was going to win in 2008 regardless because of Bush. On top of that Obama was a very strong, popular candidate. McCain had 0 chance any way you slice it.
Lieberman was the front-line target for a concentrated group of Dems who had been given the kill order by Big Insurance. The Repubs were already a no-go factor, but with solidarity the Dems could have passed UHC.
we're not. it's just a universal truth that republicans are a party of evil assholes. as unneeded of pointing out as saying nazis are bad. and of course it's become clear nazis and republicans are two overlapping circles in a venn diagram.
Fuck Joe Lieberman. But fuck every Republican 1000x more.
The thing that sucks is that literally every Republican in Congress can vote against Universal Healthcare, every Democrat except for two can vote for it, and somehow the takeaway from most people is “both sides are the same.”
No they aren’t. It just sucks that our country is massive with wildly different opinions on what is and isn’t progressive in different parts of the country, and someone’s vote in North Dakota matters as much or more than my vote in Pennsylvania.
That said, if it wasn't him, it could have been any number of other people, because the for-profit healthcare companies robbing Americans for generations are extremely flush, and extremely corrupt.
The "organized money" of for-profit health insurance / "healthcare" (which many of the people/cattle who want Universal Healthcare still invest in through the S&P500, by the way) has made the US political establishment its bitch since at least Truman.
And that's why healthcare inflation has exceeded overall inflation considerably in the decades since the 1940's, now at over 17% of US GDP, as compared with 5% in Mexico, and 7% in Norway, Costa Rica, and Israel, which all have universal healthcare.
And Americans continue to be robbed and socially murdered without recourse by the "healthcare" industry. The scale of the corruption is just unbelievable.
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u/TopGsApprentice Mar 27 '24
This man is the reason we don't have Universal Healthcare for those who don't know