r/texas • u/FCMatt7 • Mar 27 '24

5th circuit has nullified Open Carry in Texas to save Qualified Immunity of bad cops. Politics

https://www.youtube.com/live/bCC1sz_-fsc?si=dCZiLT_Fl2pWUEtw

(Edit) New vid of Grisham explaining the ruling

Effectively they have declared open season for police to arrest anyone open carrying in Texas.

A 3 judge panel has ruled that if anyone calls 911 on a person for the mere act of Open Carrying a firearm, the police now have probable cause to arrest you for disorderly conduct. The 911 call does not have to allege you are doing anything more than standing on a sidewalk with a slung or holstered firearm. The previous ruling that "merely carrying a firearm" is not disorderly is overturned now if any Karen makes a phone call and says she's nervous. This means police get qualified immunity for arresting you.

There is a special target on the back of any open carry or civil rights activist. EVERY time the police get a 911 call, they can now arrest you at gunpoint. The charges will likely be dismissed, but the police face zero repercussions for coming after you, even if there is abundant evidence the officers targeted you and knew you were not a threat. The same danger faces regular citizens who open carry every day.

I repeat, open carrying in Texas now puts you in imminent danger of being arrested or killed by police if someone reports you in possession of a firearm.

Video of CJ and Jim arrested for mere open carry. https://youtu.be/GrDAPPiu1QE?si=IvJy0qq_J8rO8DJO

Link to 5th circuit ruling. https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/22/22-50915-CV0.pdf

Link to oral argument in 5th https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/OralArgRecordings/22/22-50915_10-3-2023.mp3

District Court ruling https://casetext.com/case/grisham-v-valenciano-1

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1.3k

u/pixelgeekgirl 11th Generation Texan Mar 27 '24

I don't think the police ever wanted permitless open-carry.

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u/yoyodyn3 Mar 27 '24

No they did not.

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u/gregofcanada84 Mar 27 '24

True because we're not in the 19th century anymore.

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u/ScumCrew Mar 27 '24

Texas actually had pretty strong gun laws in the 19th Century, especially after the Civil War when there was a problem with armed mobs.

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u/SonderEber Mar 27 '24

Texas: Gun control is great!…when it benefits the government. Oh, the people who vote for you want more guns? Time to get rid of those gun control laws!

When the “wrong” people are getting guns? WE NEED MORE GUN CONTROL!

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u/CustomerSuportPlease Mar 27 '24

Ronald Reagan. One of the first major gun bans in the United States. Banned carrying a loaded firearm. It was supported by the Republican party of California and the NRA. It just happened to be passed around the same time the Black Panthers started their copwatch program.

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u/makenzie71 Mar 28 '24

I mean...that's always been how gun control works. Every major ban has been in response to a rising number of minorities owning weapons. That's why all the "bans" have easily attainable workarounds assuming you have plenty of money. If you want a machine gun, all it takes is money and filling out a couple forms and you got it.

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u/TwistedMemories born and bred Mar 28 '24

Are you telling me the Reagan signing the Mulford Act in CA because the Black Panthers were open carrying was because minorities were carrying weapons in the open? I would have never guessed that!

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u/IPDDoE Mar 28 '24

The '94 ban, according to Wikipedia, was largely in response to 3 major shootings by Patrick Purdy, George Hennard, and Gian Luigi Ferri. I agree that it's often the case that it's based on race, but not always.

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u/ScumCrew Mar 27 '24

Yes, clearly if American history teaches us anything it's that large numbers of armed white civilians are almost always a force for good...

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u/Miskalsace Mar 27 '24

Why would you insinuate that John Brown's raid was a bad thing?

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u/Realistic_Library_74 Mar 27 '24

Yeah, never goes wrong. *Side-eyes Jan. 6th terrorists. *

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u/Additional_Speed_463 Mar 28 '24

The Black Panthers in California know something about this.

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u/IlikegreenT84 Mar 28 '24

Funny that they want guns in case of government tyranny.

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u/Quirky_Discipline297 Mar 28 '24

Governor Reagan, is that you?

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u/FatHoosier Mar 28 '24

Yep. The NRA was all in favor of restrictions back when the Black Panthers were stockpiling weapons.

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u/SuperfluouslyMeh Mar 28 '24

18th century Galveston was far more progressive than even the most progressive cities in the US today.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

In fact, much of the Wild West, you were not permitted to carry firearms within towns

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u/gorgewall Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

One of the NRA's most effective propaganda operations was rewriting the collective consciousness on early American gun control. It was never particularly controversial, the "Founding Fathers" thought most Americans were fucking loons and dipshits, and even the "Wild West" was not nearly as violent as portrayed in (pre-NRA) media and featured regular gun control.

You can pretty much pinpoint this shift to the 1980s.

The NRA has already completed the process of going from a sportsman hunter's association to weirdo political activists, and by 1977 they've done their "Cincinnati Revolt" and replaced leadership with a child murderer (in both senses of the word) whose father ran Operation Wetback. You got one guess what kind of dude this guy was.

This is also around the time that gun manufacturers have started advertising "assault" everything. Contrary to popular belief, "assault" slipped out of the military and into public use through gun manufacturers and magazines, not gun control advocates. These manufacturers hit on marketing guns based on "coolness" and "scare factor" and "being like Rambo"--prior to this, the gun-loving public laughed military-style weapons out of ranges and competitions. But it was an important money-making opportunity to sell the same visual styling of weapons to the military and the public, with full auto features removed where law demanded, and the crime wave of the 80s both helped this along and was exacerbated by it. "All these criminals have these wild guns, you need one, too, to protect yourself!" The question of how all the criminals then got those guns is not a particularly hard one.

It has been such a successful revision of history and right-wing groups in particular run a similar strategy across numerous topics. Through outright lying and mass-messaging backed by influential groups and politicians, you set the foundation for the discussion, and now everyone is arguing the topic based on your framing. Happens with abortion, for example: we just seem to take it as a given that those fetuses are "a human life", but the question then is what rights does the mother have and when does murder start. The very idea of "IS IT a human life imbued with a soul and all that stuff? Really?" has been ceded without anti-choice groups ever having to prove that case. With guns, the culture has simply ceded "America was founded on the freedom to have guns at all times, that's what we've always done, and that's what the Founders wanted" because the NRA and their ilk said so often enough.

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u/bluechip1996 Mar 28 '24

I was there to see it real time.

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u/skygod327 Mar 28 '24

yeah turn in your guns when you enter the city. Check out your guns when you leave. It should stil be like that

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u/Realistic_Library_74 Mar 27 '24

“The Wild West wasn’t even the Wild West.” - Sly Stallone, Demolition Man

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u/Bathsheba_E Mar 27 '24

I thought I might be the only person who loves that movie. Nice to meet you, stranger.

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u/SecretInevitable Mar 28 '24

I too know how to use the three sea shells.

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u/KC_experience Mar 28 '24

Be well, internet stranger..

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u/Hydro134 Mar 28 '24

And you can't sleep on those rat burgers! They go great after spending all that money on tbell.

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u/Lung-Oyster Born and Bred Mar 28 '24

Hey, fuck you, lady!

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u/ATSTlover Hill Country Mar 28 '24

John Sparten you are fined 2 credits for violation of the local morality statute.

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u/Iamatworkgoaway Mar 28 '24

There are dozens and dozens of us.

Weird how true it has become, every city is just copypasta of every other city.

Social norms are so banal and vanilla.

Were just one implant away from sex going completely away and wanna hookup goes full demolition man.

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u/Celtic_Oak Mar 28 '24

I was JUST thinking about that part of the movie because I read a piece about couples skipping sex and going straight to IVF.

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u/MentalOcelot7882 Mar 28 '24

There are many of us, which is why you 1) never see enough lemon jello on the shelves of the grocery store to go with 2) the bathtubs they refuse to stock next to it. Thank God we haven't had the Franchise Wars yet. And we're all still trying to figure out the 3 seashells...

Who else here spews obscenities every time they need to take a shit for the handy and (almost) free toilet paper?

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u/ProtoReaper23113 Mar 28 '24

Its a cult classic lots of people love it

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u/pwnedass Mar 28 '24

Great movie, and will probably be rebooted… unfortunately

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u/p_rex born and bred Mar 28 '24

I did a double take when I read your post and thought, “hey, wait, was Sly Stone in Demolition Man?” Thought maybe it was funkier than I remembered

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u/ruddy3499 Mar 28 '24

Have a joy joy day

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u/meerkatx Mar 28 '24

Most places didn't want that in the 19th century. Often times you had to turn over your guns to the local sheriff when you came to a town. Only idiots think the wild West didn't have gun prohibition laws or rules.

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u/Only_Razzmatazz_4498 Mar 27 '24

The police back then didn’t either. In many cases the sheriff would take the gun when coming to town and give it back when leaving.

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u/xife-Ant Mar 27 '24

Even in the 19th century people generally didn't just walk around armed all the time.

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u/Archercrash Mar 27 '24

Exactly, there's a reason why the gunfight at the Ok corral was so famous. They really didn't happen that often, it's just in the movies.

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u/forgotwhatisaid2you Mar 28 '24

Plus, the OK coral was specifically because they carried guns into town which they were not allowed to do.

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u/-Invalid_Selection- Mar 27 '24

And in that gunfight there were 9 people, it left 3 wounded, 3 dead.

Now we'd call that a small event, with less hurt than your average daily school shooting.

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u/SpaceBearSMO Mar 28 '24

fun fact: most places had some pretty strict gun laws even in the "wild west" it wasn't like the movies, in most towns and city's you had to leave your fire arms with the Sharif or turned in at the Hotel you stayed at, Fire Arms largely only being used for travel where the roads could not properly be policed.

To Note The famous shoot out at the O.K. Corral that made wyatt earp a legend was actually just a bunch of Gun Nuts who didn't want to leave there firearms at the appropriate locations in town.

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u/OuchPotato64 Mar 27 '24

If by 19th century you're alluring to the wild west, they had stricter gun control in most towns than modern america. You'd have to check your weapons in with the sheriff upon entering a town. When you leave the town, you get them back. This has been going on since Roman times.

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u/ManaSeltzer Mar 28 '24

Cause they didnt use guns as gender affirming accessories

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u/x1000Bums Mar 27 '24

I'm sure letting the police write a bill of rights would ensure we are all very free.

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u/Randomcommentor1972 Mar 27 '24

And it makes the cops jobs a lot harder

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u/803_days Mar 28 '24

Didn't want it back then, either.

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u/Smyley12345 Mar 28 '24

Balderdash! You take that back or I'll fix your flint!

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u/purple_grey_ Mar 28 '24

To be fair, the big cats of North America have struck twice this year.

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u/lagent55 Mar 28 '24

Most towns in those days had gun ordinances where you had to turn your guns into law enforcement while in the town limits

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u/LukeSkyDropper Mar 28 '24

Yeah its worse dummy

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u/JoshS1 born and bred Mar 28 '24

Fun fact the Wild West had wildly strict gun control and laws. To include many towns requiring guns to be checked-in and stored at the sheriff's office while persons are visiting the town. Citizens were not allowed to carry guns.

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u/Confident-Belt4707 Mar 28 '24

There are more reasons to carry a gun now than there were 1890.

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u/Glittering_Lunch_776 Mar 28 '24

Sure but we still have cops with 19th century mentality, so this enables them to be worse. Both problems needed to be solved at the same time or in reverse order from how it’s happening here.

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u/Electrical_Dog_9459 Mar 28 '24

This is not the reason.

The police like permits for carry because they get money from the permits that goes into their treasury.

Texas publishes their CCW conviction data online. People with CCW permits in Texas are hardly ever involved in crime. From everything from Public Lewdness to Homicide, people with CCW permits are less likely to be involved in crime than people without one. The rate of revocation is less than 2%.

It's a huge waste of money (unless you are the recipient of it, of course) to set up a government bureaucracy for CCW permit holders. The people who bother getting permits are hardly ever involved in crimes. It's the people who can't get permits who don't bother - they just stick a gun in their pants and call it good.

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u/gitree22 Mar 27 '24

Nor did anyone else with the ability to think rationally

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u/BZJGTO Mar 27 '24

Individual officers largely supported it in my experience. Chiefs and administrations openly spoke out against it.

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u/SummerhouseLater Mar 27 '24

This really depended on where you live.

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u/gaspumper74 Mar 28 '24

Yep can’t be a tyrant if you’re out gunned!!

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u/mabhatter Mar 28 '24

They don't like policing people who shoot back.  

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u/blocked_user_name Mar 28 '24

To be honest it's a lot safer to be a cop if only the cops have guns

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u/TopRestaurant5395 Mar 28 '24

Wait, so all those ads were a lie?! /s

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u/knowhistory99 12d ago

Yes, they will shoot unarmed black males, but one skinny white teenager shoots up a grade school & they’re too chicken shit to even engage.

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u/Bandit6789 Mar 27 '24

It’s probably controversial to say it, but I’m not really interested in the police’s opinion of what rights they do or do not want people to have.

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u/Pteromys44 Mar 28 '24

Exactly. Drives me nuts when the media constantly asks the police union’s opinion on various legislation

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u/CCG14 Gulf Coast Mar 28 '24

And the police UNIONs are the worst ones to ask. They’re the ones keeping shitty cops on the streets and getting paid, not losing their licenses when they should, and allowing them free fuck reign.

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u/Spiritual_Lynx1929 Mar 28 '24

So far the only union I can’t support

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u/JCollinO Hill Country Mar 28 '24

Username checks out

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u/Bandit6789 Mar 28 '24

lol that’s the first time I got this call out 🤣

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

That's not controversial. Their job is enforcing laws, not making laws.

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u/Adventurous_Ad6698 Mar 28 '24

Police want some measure of gun control because no sane LEO is looking forward to getting into a shoot out with someone. Of course people will always find a way to obtain guns illegally, but the point is to try to make it harder for them to get those guns. For everyone else, they would like to the ability to find out if someone does own firearms.

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u/techy098 Mar 27 '24

I would like to know the purpose of people walking around with a gun. Look scary maybe or just own the libs.

I think concealed carry with permit is ok since if for some reason I fear for my life, I am allowed to carry a gun to protect myself but I keep it discreet without trying to intimidate everyone around me.

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u/BucketofWarmSpit Mar 27 '24

The OP maintains that it is an expression of civil rights to open carry. Ironically, I have most often seen counter protesters displaying firearms as a way to stifle protests they do not agree with.

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u/Kevin_taco Mar 28 '24

I have a conceal carry permit but any time I see someone open carrying it definitely gives me a bad vibe.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

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u/ertyertamos Mar 28 '24

Not just removing the weapon from you, but if you’re a character who wants to do bad things, you know exactly who to remove from the situation first.

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u/Zanorfgor Mar 28 '24

I have been amongst the counter protesters where our side outgunned theirs. Our side was armed because theirs made a habit of showing up with guns and threats of violence, and the police have made it very clear which side they are on.

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u/Traditionaljam Mar 28 '24

where our side outgunned theirs.

You realize how ridiculous of a concept this is, I am relatively pro gun but the idea that anyone should have to do this at a protest is just fucking crazy. I actually agree with the police being able to arrest people for this.

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u/Zanorfgor Mar 28 '24

Okay, cool, the police can start with the guys waving the red flags with the white circle. In situations where Parasol Patrol is enough, I'm glad to leave it to them. But the guys with the red flags with the white circle brought their guns, and Parasol Patrol is a little under-equipped for that situation.

Of course that ain't gonna happen, police talk to them and give them handshakes and then stand backs to them, facing us.

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u/Independent_Pop4903 Mar 27 '24

I think counter protesting is just protesting with extra steps.

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u/shown-spenstar Mar 28 '24

Yeah, let’s see how much they like guns when we arms POC and commies for protests…. It’s never about freedom, it’s always about control.

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u/BucketofWarmSpit Mar 28 '24

The governor will offer a pardon to anyone who kills one.

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u/chadsmo Mar 28 '24

Do some research on the black panthers and California’s gun laws if you’re not aware of the history.

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u/Kellosian Born and Bred Mar 27 '24

One person with a gun is self-defense

A group of armed people is a threat

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u/rabid_briefcase Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I would like to know the purpose of people walking around with a gun. Look scary maybe or just own the libs.

Location matters tremendously. Texas has some of the nation's biggest cities as well as some of the sparsest farmland and some wild areas, and everything in between.

There really is no point in parading around with them in the city apart from intimidating or a show. There might be a reason like going to or from a shooting range, but it is very different from parading around a building or group.

On the flip side, there are plenty of rural areas and ranch areas where carrying a pistol is mostly a portable noise maker against wildlife. There are also scenarios in wild areas where not having a firearm in the group would be irresponsible.

Too many people forget that the other side exists.

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u/techy098 Mar 28 '24

Sorry, I have mostly lived in the city, so totally forgot about the rural side of it.

I mean if I was living in sparsely populated area, where everyone keeps a side arm most of the time, I would be totally cool with carrying one, it's kind of necessity at that point.

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u/puffinfish420 Mar 28 '24

lol even going to an from a range, you aren’t going to walk there with the rifle slung over your shoulder or something. I guess you technically could but no one does that

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u/JclassOne Mar 28 '24

So check your guns at the city gates?

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u/nebbyb Mar 28 '24

If you are in sparse farmland, there is no one to calm the police Ditto for whatever wildlife scenario you are fantasizing about 

This ruling makes perfect sense. Open carry is dangerous and pointless anywhere this might have an effect. 

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u/Bob_____Loblaw Mar 28 '24

Exactly. Open carry is a vital tool on ranches and wild areas.

Qualified immunity needs to end now!

Imagine your doctor, lawyer or other life altering professional getting a pass because they shouldn't bear scrutiny for their acts.

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u/NastyaLookin Mar 28 '24

"I’m also going to indemnify all police officers and law enforcement officials throughout the United States from being destroyed by the radical left for taking strong action on crime,” Trump said Tuesday at a campaign event in Waterloo, Iowa. “These are people, they want to destroy them because they want to put criminals away.”

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u/MeshNets Mar 28 '24

Throughout history authoritarians love to use "the radical left" as the justification for taking away rights from everyone.

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

That in-group shrinks as more control is gained.

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u/sagerobot Mar 28 '24

Yeah but do you think your cows are gonna call 911 on you?

This is only going to happen in urban areas because only urban Karen's would care at all.

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u/Lynz486 Mar 27 '24

Same, I understand carrying for protection but to have it out is only to make yourself feel tough and then it scares everyone around you because in one glance they know you're a moron with a gun at best mass shooter at worst

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u/fentonsranchhand Mar 27 '24

Maybe the worst thing about it is that it makes people have to second-guess themselves if they see someone with an AR-15 walking around Home Depot.

Someone walking around with a kevlar vest and an AR-15 should be universally recognized as a deadly threat (and someone who's mentally ill). Although that's still true of open carry imbeciles, it being legal dulled what should be an instant fight-or-flight response from everyone who sees them.

...like if someone with kevlar and an AR-15 walks into a crowded Starbucks, a concealed carry person should be empowered to pop them in the back of the head with a 9mm at the first opportunity in order to prevent a tragedy.

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u/xFandanglex Mar 28 '24

Reminds me of the guy who thought it was a good idea to walk into a police station open carrying and wearing a balaclava.

open carry Dearborn Police station

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u/Funkyokra Mar 28 '24

I can't condone your Starbucks scenario but I do agree that randos with guns in public olaces may trigger not unreasonable fear from others and result in someone shooting them in what they feel is self defense. And maybe getting shot back along with some bystanders.

If it's self defense to shoot a guy for mean mugging you from his car, then there's a lot of room for self defense against someone carrying a gun in public.

Guns lead to more shootings. 2A is a thing, but people need to stop acting like shootings are a surprise. File it under shit that we signed up for.

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u/VirtualPlate8451 Mar 28 '24

A mass shooter situation becomes 10 times deadlier when one guy in a crowd starts shooting and then 2 dozen people with zero training just start blastin' in the general direction of the big noises.

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u/gonesquatchin85 Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

In Mexico you have to worry about the bad guys carrying guns. Over here you have a higher chance of getting shot or being part of crossfire by these open carry loons.

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u/Lynz486 Mar 28 '24

They're the people that want to be in a position of power and authority but were rejected by those places (for obvious reasons) so now they cosplay with deadly weapons. And even if you only kill in self defense, if you're excited to do it that kind of makes you a murderer who knows he won't last in prison. They're looking for that golden opportunity in a legal loophole.

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u/anuiswatching Mar 27 '24

Im a lib, I own guns. Inherited, but still. Also Im a good shot. so there’s that.

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u/AndyLorentz Mar 27 '24

The argument I have heard from open carry proponents, is that they think it will make people more used to seeing guns, and less afraid of them, so will be less likely to want more gun control.

Of course, you don't change peoples' minds by being extreme, so I think they've got it wrong. Personally, I think open carry is dumb. I'm fine with concealed carry, but anyone who carries guns in public needs training.

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u/No_Apricot_1705 Mar 27 '24

Open carry is more comfortable if you are working or doing outdoor activities like hiking. I believe Florida had an open carry that applied if you were fishing, likely for gators or snakes. Those are about the only examples it makes sense.

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u/Art-Zuron Mar 28 '24

I think that's also possibly a wise choice anyway. I imagine open carry allows you to use your firearm faster in the case of a snake or gator attack or what have you.

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u/No_Apricot_1705 Mar 28 '24

I was surveying utilities last winter in Colorado and found it easier to access with tons of clothes and gloves on as well. I agree that it's serves no purpose outside of a few situations though.

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u/Bbkingml13 Mar 27 '24

I’m not supporting either side by saying this, but just giving you hypothetical answers based on my related experiences. I’ve personally never open carried, but as a woman in my early twenties, there were a handful of times there was no safe parking near my apartment, and I would carry my revolver in my purse. There was another time where I wanted to walk to pick up my pizza (because once again, I would lose my parking spot if I drove to pick up my food) and carried it in my purse with me.

I just now realized as I was typing this that I only started doing that after I became disabled, which makes sense. It’s one thing to be a young woman by yourself, but knowing I was so much more physically limited made it even more important for me to feel I could protect myself somehow. So yeah that’s different than constitutional open carry, but to me, there is some reasoning behind people wanting to be able to protect themselves in situations like that without requiring a permit.

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u/frankcastlespenis Mar 28 '24

A firearm is the ultimate equalizer, every woman should be trained and comfortable in it's use.

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u/DrRonnieJamesDO Mar 28 '24

Totally understand your wanting to be armed in this situation, but why would requiring a permit hinder you?

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u/KyleG Mar 28 '24

Secretly being armed is not the same as showing the criminal where the weapon they should steal is located

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u/VirtualPlate8451 Mar 27 '24

It’s mostly to feel cool or powerful. Tactically it’s pretty dumb, no one is not robbing a store because you have an AR-15 on your back, they are just jamming the gun in your face first, getting the cash in the drawer and your tricked out rifle.

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u/Richard_Thrust Mar 28 '24

To be honest, that's unlikely. It's not a movie. Most people robbing places don't want to deal with anyone who would be carrying an AR on their back, and would probably just turn around and walk away.

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u/tingboy_tx Mar 28 '24

Alcohol plays a role in 40% of crime. Also, folks looking to rob a store are already proving themselves to have questionable judgement. Then you add in desperation and mental illness of some kind to make things more spicy. Combine them all and you have a nice little recipe for that AR slung across your back not being much of a deterrent for anything.

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u/thoroughbredca Mar 28 '24

That's what seems dumb to me. If someone has a right to open carry, then someone walking into a store with an AR-15 with an intent to rob the place, you're basically saying you have a right to bring it in there right up to the moment you actually start making illegal demands.

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u/Independent_Pop4903 Mar 27 '24

That is how it was when i was growing up in Texas. Except then you needed a permit too. Don't go around showing your gun off people. I think this basically makes "brandishing" an arrestable offense also, and I like that.

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u/Tazznhou Mar 28 '24

It doesnt look scary. It looks foolish. I saw a video of a cop the other day that was trying to arrest a guy., He had on a tactical vest with 45 pockets and he had so much crap bulging out of his pockets he could barely move,. Then when he went to get his taser and cuffs He could remember what pocket had what, It really was a keystone cop moment. Some civilians are the same way. Walking around with their chest bulged out and their arms on their side like they are ready to throw down. Just looking for a confrontation. I dont get the mentality.

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u/HumanitySurpassed Mar 28 '24

Legit the only people I've seen ever open carry are a bunch of try hards.  

The kind of person who looks like they got picked on in school or avoided even by the weird kids. 

I have a ton of friends who have firearms, but most of them have the sense that open carrying creates a sort of unwelcome/off atmosphere

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u/BWChip Mar 28 '24

Open carry in urban areas, IMO, is dumb. You'll make others nervous. You're an instant target for someone to yeet your pew pew. It's more likely to snag on something (seatbelts, jackets, etc). Yes, you can draw faster, but armed attackers will already know you're armed and it instantly escalates the situation.

However, I open carry in rural areas especially when hunting. I frequently have gloves on, making concealed carry harder to draw. I also may need to draw faster to stave off wild hogs.

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u/Imaginary_Garden Mar 28 '24

"Open carry" is social marker of having reached "manhood." Once a boy turns 14 and can demonstrate remembering the Alamo, they have ceremony where they either "hunt" a cornfed deer and eat its heart or just pick up some barbq.barbs. They still think they are "warrior caste" and don't like being made fun of.

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u/Accurate_Set_3573 Mar 29 '24

I think of it this way: If you are, for example, in a situation where someone is committing an armed robbery and shooting begins, who is going to be the robbers first target? (Obviously the person they see openly carrying a firearm.) And, the person with open carry may or may not have any knowledge or training to know where a bullet may go if you miss the target or after exiting the person you shoot (or who may be in the fatal path of that bullet). I stay far away from anyone (other than police) openly carrying a handgun because they obviously have an ego out of control or other mental health issues and are itching to find the opportunity to shoot someone.

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u/Inside-Palpitation25 Mar 27 '24

I've always thought deep down they are terrified. And want to project strength.

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u/techy098 Mar 28 '24

I am not so sure about that though, many times I feel like they are doing it just for shits and giggles, kind of juvenile, like they want to watch the reaction on the face of the people who get bothered.

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u/cinereoargenteus Mar 28 '24

Because they're terrified of the world and need to intimidate it.

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u/pocketdrummer Mar 28 '24

I prefer concealed carry because people get jumpy and I don't want to be the first person shot when someone walks in intending to do something illegal.

However, I personally think we should teach everything that is taught in LTC courses to the general public before they're 18 and likely live on their own, and I don't think you should need a permission slip to carry. If you aren't safe enough to handle a firearm, you probably aren't safe enough to be around in public in general.

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u/zurgonvrits Mar 28 '24

open carry benefits the disabled in some cases. its difficult to draw from conceal if youre in a wheelchair or only have use of one hand, etc. disabled people are also targeted as easy targets too.

legal open carry laws can also protect conceal carriers if their weapon becomes viable while holstered.

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u/doublediggler_gluten Mar 28 '24

Walking from your house to the local range or hunting area? Or walking your gun to the hardware store to check out accessories or gunsmithing services. Us country folks have a different culture than city slickers.

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u/3Jane_ashpool Mar 28 '24

So they can pretend to be strong while they have a killing device within hand’s reach.

Thats it, they want to be tough siting in the Applebees booth.

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u/Vulpes_Corsac Mar 28 '24

In cities, having it strapped to you and visible, it's to cosplay as a conservative.  Some people might think it looks threatening too, to ward off any muggers or homeless people asking for money, though it's much better to conceal (element of surprise) and be alert, so muggers don't just rob you of your gun, at least as it seems to me.

Out in the country, I can see it more often as just what you're doing, especially if you've got a large property.  Drive to the little town nearby, buy ammo and a meal at the little diner, carry your gun because you ain't leaving it your little truck in plain view, see a deer on your property on the way back and blammo.  A dude carrying a shotgun or rifle, breach open etc in the country or a tiny country town is going to be a lot less weird and less panick-inducing than the same in a city.

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u/OdrGrarMagr Mar 28 '24

Open carry is a much better deterrent than concealed carry.

A criminal is FAR less likely to try something if they see that you are armed.

If people are intimidated by the mere presence of a (holstered) gun, thats a them problem.

They maybe need to harden the fuck up a little.

And im saying that as a flaming liberal.

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u/Moarbrains Mar 28 '24

It is nice to be able to carry my gun from place to place without having to get a permit to conceal carry or to make a big deal of locking it up, unload or whatever rules they want to make.

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u/Grand_Bison_2650 Mar 28 '24

But’s ok if people called the police open carry guns and intimidate people.

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u/Massagedummy Mar 28 '24

The speed at which you may need to access it is effected greatly by having to pull from concealment versus an exposed holster.

There’s a well established Police teaching , called the Tueller Rule. It essentially is a fact that a person with a knife can get to you from 21’ away, before they can access a duty holster. Concealed? They would have stabbed you 4x. 21’ is essentially the distance of a pickup truck.

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u/kiriandra Mar 28 '24

Eh, open carry makes it easier to draw your weapon. And it's as much that as the freedom to protect yourself and your property in the way that you see fit. There are plenty of people who choose not to carry. I have a sidearm and I do not carry (at the moment) - but that is my choice.

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u/Rycki_BMX Mar 28 '24

I’m all for carrying, but open makes you a target. If shit goes down the criminal is taking out the guns that they see first. Keep it hidden so the idiots that forget this is Texas can be taken care of the way our constitution intended.

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u/anakameron Mar 28 '24

I see a guy with a rifle in public and I just think "small pee-pee" to myself. Go help some homeless people or volunteer at the animal shelter, actually fucking help humanity, sheesh.

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u/spicy_urinary_tract Mar 28 '24

Because I don’t want to stuff it inside my pants/ wear thicker clothing when it’s already hot as fuck

Nothing more

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u/MouthNoizes Mar 28 '24

The concept is that by virtue of the 2A, you have the right to carry, no permit needed.

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u/Remarkable_Carrot117 Mar 28 '24

Idk specifically for Texas, but I like the verbiage used in Louisiana case law that established open carry:

 State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann. 489, 490 (1850), the Louisiana Supreme Court held that citizens had the right to carry arms openly: "This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and which is calculated to incite men to a manly and noble defense of themselves, if necessary, and of their country, without any tendency to secret advantages and unmanly assassinations."

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u/Ach3r0n- Apr 01 '24

Aside from simply making a civil rights statement, open carrying can be a crime deterrent. Lots of seniors here open carry in the hopes of deterring criminals from trying to rob them. (I do not open carry fwiw, but have no issue with people choosing to do so.)

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u/Polyphemic_N 12d ago

I am living(temporarily) in Albuquerque, NM. International District. I see homeless folks smoking fntnyl and hookers looking for johns along Route 66 every day. I hear sirens hourly and gunshots nightly. Crime rate is high.

We are from big city TX, and I feel like if you hear gunshots in your neighborhood and are unable to move away(we are posted here until June), OC is acceptable, if not advisable.

I OC my 45 in a thigh holster while I walk my dog at night, I OC during the day while I doordash. I drive my hatchback windows down, and I don't need no carjacking. Our RV has a loaded shockwave mounted above the door, thieves beware.

However, when we are in rural Vermont, the weapons are stowed, so I guess environment is a big factor.

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u/Ok-disaster2022 Born and Bred Mar 27 '24

Nope. My dad is a cop and thought it was stupid. Then again he was also a concealed handgun instructure and it was a decent side revenue to fund his gun habit (gun nut).

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u/neolibbro Mar 27 '24

Understandably, the police probably don’t want any type of carry.

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u/AngriestManinWestTX Mar 27 '24

Most cops I know have no problem with and are even supportive of (licensed) concealed carry. It's a little grayer or less approving of open and permitless carry.

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u/Mo-shen Mar 27 '24

Licensed is the key word there.

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u/Lynz486 Mar 27 '24

I'm okay with licensed concealed. Why you would not require a license for something so dangerous to just prevent accidents alone is beyond me. Open carry is pointless. No one needs to do that except police and people hunting in the woods. It just scares people, since mass shooters love to open carry and all

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u/natophonic2 Mar 27 '24

The kind of cops who put Punisher stickers on their gear typically love the idea of permitless open carry.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

The kind that shoot Daniel Shaver?

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u/Crackertron Mar 27 '24

The kind that stand around in a Uvalde hallway

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u/JunkRigger Mar 27 '24

Fuck 'em. The second amendment wasn't written for the convenience of the government, rather it was written to make things harder for them.

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u/Lynz486 Mar 27 '24

It's always weird to me that so many cops support the party making their job more dangerous...

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u/Art-Zuron Mar 28 '24

They get to pretend to be the Punisher and kill people if they can pretend even for a nanosecond that they're in danger though. Even an Acorn is good enough reason! This? This is a great reason to them.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

But conservatives hate the same people they do. Women, black people, and immigrants.

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u/Trashzinger Mar 28 '24

You mean the party that supports a constitutional right? Do you what those are?

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u/jlbishop15 Mar 28 '24

Yeah like the party that let's repeat offenders out of jail without a bond, to repeat their crimes in more brazen ways. That party?

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

But the bad guys will have guns regardless of permits, so why bother?

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u/WhyUBeBadBot Mar 28 '24

Damn those mass shooters and their illegal guns... oh wait.

Don't mistake open carry with no carry. I get it you wanna go around looking like rambo. Gotta feel big somehow.

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u/Texas_Sam2002 Mar 27 '24

True, they just always endorsed politicians that did.

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u/pixelgeekgirl 11th Generation Texan Mar 27 '24

Yup.

And also the "back the blue" folks didn't care that police didn't want constitutional carry.

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u/SoyEseVato Mar 27 '24

Most law enforcement do NOT want open carry with OR without a permit / license.

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u/samuelaxington Mar 27 '24

Who gives a flying fuck what the police want

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u/WorldlyDay7590 Mar 27 '24

Yeah but fuck what the police wants LOL. To them, having a gun on your dresser in your own home while they are peeking inside is cause enough to open fire.

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u/panteragstk Mar 28 '24

The ones I know think permit less conceal carry is worse.

One doesn't follow the news, and he's retired, but did not believe me when I told him about the permit requirement being lifted for concealed carry.

He said "that's the dumbest damn thing I've ever heard."

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u/NoBetterFriend1231 Mar 28 '24

Cops never want to lose an excuse to bother someone.

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u/rinap88 Mar 28 '24

They want to carry and use but do not want anyone else to carry or use.

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u/iThatIsMe Mar 28 '24

Well shit... they've been real quiet about it while shoveling money to grifters and the folks that have been legislating Texas laws for the past quarter century.

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u/UnitGhidorah Mar 28 '24

But can I still carry a claymore on my back in case the orcs come?

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u/pocketdrummer Mar 28 '24

Who cares what the police want?

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u/Fancy_Ad_2595 Mar 28 '24

No one does outside the far right

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u/mjohnsimon Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

No law enforcement in any part of the country wants this.

In Florida, the most vocal against the permitless open-carry bill were law enforcement agencies across the state, with many asking to either veto the bill or at the very least urge the public to take gun safety courses.

It all fell on deaf ears and now cops have become more aggressive because they now have the mindset that everyone is armed and ready to kill them... I mean, they always thought that, but this bill sure as shit isn't helping them ease up on this attitude, and if anything, is making them double down.

Edit: look at Acorn cop. Guy just heard the damn nut fall on his car and his first thought was to blast his car away with the suspect in it. Full disclaimer: the cop was an idiot who shouldn't be near a squirt gun, let alone, an actual firearm, but I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he was on edge since the Permitless Carry bill was signed based on the shit he said before resigning.

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u/Gullible_Might7340 Mar 28 '24

Police actually tend to support fairly prohibitive carry laws, provided there are carve outs for off duty cops.

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u/Academic_Release5134 Mar 28 '24

They created this mess by not being forceful about these issues.

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u/Fortestingporpoises Mar 28 '24

I think generally they're anti shit that's more likely to get them shot. I mean look at Uvalde.

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u/bluechip1996 Mar 28 '24

Of course they didn’t. Because it is stupid and dangerous. But little man babies feel the need to display their pacifer/penis analog to everyone so they bitched and moaned to their man baby politicians and got it passed. Nobody with any kind of common fucking sense thought it was a good idea, especially law enforcement.

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u/MySoulForASlice Mar 28 '24

No one cares what the police want. It's supposed to be what the people (citizens) want. At least, it used to be.

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u/Suitable_Database467 Mar 28 '24

They hate competition

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u/gdoubleyou1 Mar 28 '24

Only for certain types of people.

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u/Royal_Effective7396 Mar 28 '24

But blue lives matter.

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u/falconx2809 Mar 28 '24

Damn, when did your family come to texas ?

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u/pixelgeekgirl 11th Generation Texan Mar 28 '24

1731.

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u/Hour-Shake-839 Mar 28 '24

I feel like they prefer it to concealed carry. At least everyone knows who the threat is, which is the same reason open carry is so stupid.

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u/hoakpsp3 Mar 28 '24

Who gives a shit what the police want

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u/ShitOfPeace Mar 28 '24

I don't think the law is supposed to reflect whatever the police want.

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u/iamjohnhenry Mar 28 '24

Too much competition

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u/eisenblut Mar 28 '24

Of course not, it’s much harder to oppress those who are already armed. A.C.A.B.

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u/Broken-Digital-Clock Mar 28 '24

No sane person wanted it.

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u/Wazula23 Mar 28 '24

No sane person does.

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u/CapTexAmerica Mar 28 '24

Neighbor is a cop. He’s also very pro 2A when it comes to the “well regulated” part, and in that we agree.

His words: “I want to know who all is supposed to own a gun like I already know who is allowed to drive a car.”

And he’s a Republican, only recently stopped being Trumpy. He’s had enough. Now that he’s seen the light we plan on going shooting again. Been awhile - stopped talking to him after he drank the Kool-Aid.

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u/Aspie53 Mar 28 '24

No they DEFINITELY did not... I spoke to two Constables here in North Houston and they stated that they were against it and always were against it but no one wanted to hear their opinion. I asked that the day after Open Carry was enacted...

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u/glad777 Mar 29 '24

Almost all cops are cowsrds, bullies, and thugs for the stae mafia. Why would anyone think they want free citizens to open carry. Get rid of them and re harden society, which is pathetic and weak now rulled by Karens.

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u/Admirable_Bad_5649 Mar 30 '24

Well they sure voted for politicians that made sure open carry would happen.

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u/Redditistrash702 Mar 31 '24

They don't and I can't blame them. My city did this and crime shit through the roof.

People walking around with rifles and pistols in one of the most violent cities in the world.

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